Greater Steed in combat, how does the Steed function?

[MarkVIIIMarc]

What's the order of operations on how my Bard and this Griffon work in combat together when my character is not riding the mount?

I need a simple breakdown assuming the spell has been cast before combat starts, as far as is it a bonus action to command the thing then I mostly let it kill on its own? Is its turn separate from mine but also on my initiative roll? Is it best to give it its own iniative or let the DM decide?

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Additionally, if it has an Intelligence score of 5 or lower, its Intelligence becomes 6, and it gains the ability to understand one language of your choice that you speak.

You control the mount in combat. While the mount is within 1 mile of you, you can communicate with it telepathically.

I will say, think what you want it to do and he will do it. There should not be any bonus action to command. It is like talking.

He act just like a mercenary you can hire but the steed will always obey.

About the initiative, there is no rule about when it act in the spell, you will need to ask your DM.

I think that acting in the same time is simpler and help the flow so I recommend using it as a house rule.

[Dork_Forge]

As per the mounted combat rules an independent mount should have its own place in the initiative order. As for controlling it there's no real rules coverage given in either Steed spells or the mount rules, but since you can communicate telepathically I think there's a few ways to handle it:

The mount requires a bonus action command from you otherwise it just dodges

The mount can have standing orders given outside of combat to attack until dead a target meeting certain perameters (closest enemy to you, closest enemy to it etc.)

The mount is treated as an NPC and is controlled by the DM or control is delegated by the DM to you

[Anymage]

RAW, P. 198 of the PHB covers it all pretty well. Steeds are by definition intelligent, so they get their own initiative.

As played, it would be totally reasonable for the steed to assume the paladin's initiative. A negligible nerf (your standard paladin, as a heavy armor wearer, is inclined to dump dex while mounts might have a higher score), but being able to coordinate actions better makes up for that.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Thats kinda what I thought. Thank you all.

Was there something on Critical Roll where either a character or her bear could have an action but not both?

[Dork_Forge]

Thats kinda what I thought. Thank you all.

Was there something on Critical Roll where either a character or her bear could have an action but not both?

Not familiar with CR but a quick google shows that the character combo you're thinking of is a Ranger and animal companion not a Paladin with a steed. The PHB version of the Ranger requires an Action to control their companion.

[Honk]

There are two distinct modes of operation, which are inherently different. There is a pretty cool YouTube video from two blokes about this, covering all the madness. In short (pg.198:
First mode: Rider and Steed act together. You only roll ini for the rider, the steed can only choose to use dash, disengage and dodge... it moves as you direct it, so no bonus action required. DM might force this on you, if you do some run up- mount- ride - dismount -run more madness
Second Mode: Rider and steed Act independently. Mount is more or less in NPC mode, gets an own ini and acts on its own. Rules have some nice examples of unwanted behavior mentioned. There your bonus action might be needed to „reign your creature in“. But that should not be needed each turn. If you shout „cherryblossom, destroy that foul creature in the name of cosmic justice“, cherryblossom will start to rampage down on the poor soul. Damage or fear effects or other DM dependent circumstances might lead to misbehavior, but that’s when you‘ll have to grab the mane/horns/things and reassert control over your mount...

Please do consider the „mounted combatants“ feat...

[BloodSnake'sCha]

There are two distinct modes of operation, which are inherently different. There is a pretty cool YouTube video from two blokes about this, covering all the madness. In short (pg.198:
First mode: Rider and Steed act together. You only roll ini for the rider, the steed can only choose to use dash, disengage and dodge... it moves as you direct it, so no bonus action required. DM might force this on you, if you do some run up- mount- ride - dismount -run more madness
Second Mode: Rider and steed Act independently. Mount is more or less in NPC mode, gets an own ini and acts on its own. Rules have some nice examples of unwanted behavior mentioned. There your bonus action might be needed to „reign your creature in“. But that should not be needed each turn. If you shout „cherryblossom, destroy that foul creature in the name of cosmic justice“, cherryblossom will start to rampage down on the poor soul. Damage or fear effects or other DM dependent circumstances might lead to misbehavior, but that’s when you‘ll have to grab the mane/horns/things and reassert control over your mount...

Please do consider the „mounted combatants“ feat...

I don't think I agree about the second method in the special case of the paladin steed.

The paladin steed is an intelligent spirit, not an animal. It should act like your friendly moon druid mount. The spell call the steed intelligent and even gives it better intelligent score in case the animal form have less.

[Chugger]

I don't think I agree about the second method in the special case of the paladin steed.

The paladin steed is an intelligent spirit, not an animal. It should act like your friendly moon druid mount. The spell call the steed intelligent and even gives it better intelligent score in case the animal form have less.

Maybe. I think this is very much a ymmv type of thing, depending on what the DM rules. I don't see any rules on whether or not a warhorse can attack on its own as you ride it up to stab at some creature. If you're fighting a warhorse, they get an attack - but where in the PHB does it cover a rider and mount working together AND whether or not mounts (esp trained war horses) get to attack too? I can't find it, and if someone does know where it is in the PHB, pls tell us! Thx.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Maybe. I think this is very much a ymmv type of thing, depending on what the DM rules. I don't see any rules on whether or not a warhorse can attack on its own as you ride it up to stab at some creature. If you're fighting a warhorse, they get an attack - but where in the PHB does it cover a rider and mount working together AND whether or not mounts (esp trained war horses) get to attack too? I can't find it, and if someone does know where it is in the PHB, pls tell us! Thx.

There is a section about intelligent mounts in under mounted combat.

I will quote it and hope this is what you were talking about:

Controlling a Mount
While you’re mounted, you have two options. You can either control the mount or allow it to act independently. Intelligent creatures, such as dragons, act independently.

You can control a mount only if it has been trained to accept a rider. Domesticated horses, donkeys, and similar creatures are assumed to have such training. The initiative of a controlled mount changes to match yours when you mount it. It moves as you direct it, and it has only three action options: Dash, Disengage, and Dodge. A controlled mount can move and act even on the turn that you mount it.

An independent mount retains its place in the initiative order. Bearing a rider puts no restrictions on the actions the mount can take, and it moves and acts as it wishes. It might flee from combat, rush to attack and devour a badly injured foe, or otherwise act against your wishes.

In either case, if the mount provokes an opportunity attack while you’re on it, the attacker can target you or the mount.

The paladin steed is a special case because he listens to you and can talk with you telepathically.


You summon a spirit that assumes the form of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal steed, creating a long-lasting bond with it. Appearing in an unoccupied space within range, the steed takes on a form that you choose: a warhorse, a pony, a camel, an elk, or a mastiff. (Your GM might allow other animals to be summoned as steeds.) The steed has the statistics of the chosen form, though it is a celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice) instead of its normal type. Additionally, if your steed has an Intelligence of 5 or less, its Intelligence becomes 6, and it gains the ability to understand one language of your choice that you speak.

Your steed serves you as a mount, both in combat and out, and you have an instinctive bond with it that allows you to fight as a seamless unit. While mounted on your steed, you can make any spell you cast that targets only you also target your steed.

When the steed drops to 0 hit points, it disappears, leaving behind no physical form. You can also dismiss your steed at any time as an action, causing it to disappear. In either case, casting this spell again summons the same steed, restored to its hit point maximum.

While your steed is within 1 mile of you, you can communicate with each other telepathically.

You can't have more than one steed bonded by this spell at a time. As an action, you can release the steed from its bond at any time, causing it to disappear.

[Tanarii]

Unlike Find Steed, Find Greater Steed is explicit: you control the mount during combat.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Unlike Find Steed, Find Greater Steed is explicit: you control the mount during combat.

Which is kind of stupid, you get a downgrade for a stronger spell, and they changed the wording of one spell but not the other.

[Honk]

Which is kind of stupid, you get a downgrade for a stronger spell, and they changed the wording of one spell but not the other.

In our group, my DM made me declare fighting mode at the roll ini stage for my paladin steed. The real nitpick would be, who the you is supposed to be...
You, mighty paladin of whatever or YOU, grubby player with chipsgreased hands.

My group makes fun of me, that the horse is smarter than the rider, but as mentioned above, maybe it is impossible for a summoned paladin steed to merely act together, since, like a mighty dragon, it is too smart.

Something I would just discuss with the omnipotent DM, how you think it should work and what his (final) thoughts are on this. Might even be switching modes in mid fight, because reasons