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View Full Version : Optimization Small Rant+ASI/Feat Progression for VHuman Sorcadin



Expected
2019-10-27, 01:05 PM
First, a little description of my DM's MO (he's an old-school player from AD&D-4e): My DM likes to have rooms full of enemies ready their action and loose their arrows/bolts right when I am in sight (I play a Fighter in his other campaign and he one-shot my previous character for this campaign, a Rogue, in the first session). He actively tries to kill us and unfortunately for me, most of my party members are RP focused and will try RP shenanigans during a fight (e.g. use their action to do pretty much anything other than being helpful in a fight). It's fun and hilarious, but I get frustrated because of how difficult combat is since instead of it being 5 vs enemies, it's more like 2 vs enemies. We are level 1 and we have (had) a Swords Bard, a Gloom Stalker Ranger, a Wizard with no DPR cantrips, a s&b Fighter, and a now deceased Arcane Trickster Rogue (me). Archetypes were planned ahead of time.

So in an attempt to build the strongest Sorcadin possible to survive (high AC+high saves), my question is this: What is the optimal ASI/Feat progression for a heavy armor, sword and shield VHuman Vengeance Paladin 0-6 -> Divine Soul Sorcerer 0-14, assuming that I want to take War Caster, Resilient: Con, and x2 ASI's (+4 to Cha), and +1 ASI/Feat? My ability scores with point-buy before a feat are 16-8-15-8-8-16 (Str-Dex-Con-Int-Wis-Cha).

I cannot choose War Caster at level 1, so I was thinking of choosing Resilient: Constitution to get 16 Con. The problem is that now I have to choose between +2 Cha or War Caster at level 4 Paladin. Any thoughts?

Keravath
2019-10-27, 01:29 PM
The usual progression would be paladin 1-6 for the aura to benefit saving throws. With your 8 in dex, int and wis your saves will be bad and become at least passable when you get the aura.

Do you plan to use spells after the first round of combat? Or will you be using spell slots for smites?

If you cast a spell like bless during the first round of combat you can use your free object interaction to draw your sword. You then maintain concentration on bless while engaging in combat. You don't have any need for war caster. Keep in mind that your material component can be a symbol on your shield so you are considered to be already holding it.

War caster is a good feat but unless you will be casting spells frequently after the first round of combat it probably isn't a great investment. It does help with concentration but resilient con will also help with that and should be adequate until you decide to get warcaster later.

You could then boost charisma at 4 and 10. Are you planning on relying on acquiring a magic item to boost strength? Otherwise you will need a couple of ASI's to boost that to 20 too. Another feat that could be useful is PAM since you could use a spear or quarterstaff with a shield and get a bonus action attack option.

Expected
2019-10-27, 02:15 PM
The usual progression would be paladin 1-6 for the aura to benefit saving throws. With your 8 in dex, int and wis your saves will be bad and become at least passable when you get the aura.

Do you plan to use spells after the first round of combat? Or will you be using spell slots for smites?

If you cast a spell like bless during the first round of combat you can use your free object interaction to draw your sword. You then maintain concentration on bless while engaging in combat. You don't have any need for war caster. Keep in mind that your material component can be a symbol on your shield so you are considered to be already holding it.

War caster is a good feat but unless you will be casting spells frequently after the first round of combat it probably isn't a great investment. It does help with concentration but resilient con will also help with that and should be adequate until you decide to get warcaster later.

You could then boost charisma at 4 and 10. Are you planning on relying on acquiring a magic item to boost strength? Otherwise you will need a couple of ASI's to boost that to 20 too. Another feat that could be useful is PAM since you could use a spear or quarterstaff with a shield and get a bonus action attack option.

I was planning on using Divine Smite/Quickened Booming Blade/Quickened Hold Person+Attack+Divine Smite/Spirit Guardians+Quickened Spiritual Weapon (can I do this by RAW?) and just stay on the enemies keeping them in SG and attacking (Booming Blade if they provoke an OA). I'd take Bless through a DS feature and use it until Blur/Spirit Guardians. I intend to use a Str magic item if/when I find one (hence the lack of a dip into Warlock). I know I want Quickened and Subtle Spell, but I can't decide for the last Metamagic.

The reason for War Caster was so I can use Shield/Absorb Elements as a reaction once I multiclass into Sorcerer, but Bless+Free Object Interaction to draw my sword is better because I can get higher Cha sooner.

JNAProductions
2019-10-27, 02:25 PM
Attack (Smite) and Quickened Booming Blade (Smite) is legal.
Quickened Hold Person then Attack (Smite) is legal.
Spirit Guardians and Quickened Spiritual Weapon is both redundant (pretty sure Weapon is already a bonus action) is illegal.

If you cast a spell as a bonus action on your turn, the only other spells you can cast that turn is a cantrip.

Spacehamster
2019-10-27, 03:47 PM
Perhaps point out to DM that a DM’s goal is not to kill the party but to tell a story and provide a challenge(ofc with the risk of death), but if your party has done nothing to alert a room full of enemies of your presence there is no reason for them to have ready action to fire at the door. I would just give up on it with somebody pulling stuff like that, removes trying to get the drop on the enemy and the initiative system in general and severely punishes low hp/ac chars. :-/

Expected
2019-10-27, 05:31 PM
Attack (Smite) and Quickened Booming Blade (Smite) is legal.
Quickened Hold Person then Attack (Smite) is legal.
Spirit Guardians and Quickened Spiritual Weapon is both redundant (pretty sure Weapon is already a bonus action) is illegal.

If you cast a spell as a bonus action on your turn, the only other spells you can cast that turn is a cantrip.

I apologize for not knowing that. I've never played a spellcaster before so it's something I didn't know. Thank you for explaining it.


Perhaps point out to DM that a DM’s goal is not to kill the party but to tell a story and provide a challenge(ofc with the risk of death), but if your party has done nothing to alert a room full of enemies of your presence there is no reason for them to have ready action to fire at the door. I would just give up on it with somebody pulling stuff like that, removes trying to get the drop on the enemy and the initiative system in general and severely punishes low hp/ac chars. :-/

My poor Rogue had 9 HP and leather armor and was killed immediately by a natural 20 when I stealthily snuck up to a door, checked for traps, unlocked it, and slowly opened it. Even if the DM hadn't rolled a nat 20, the damage and amount of attacks alone would've knocked me out and made me fail all three death saves immediately. It's not that it's not fun, though, I love the challenge because it encourages me to make the best possible character I can (I love theorycrafting as you can tell) to succeed when I was intended to fail.

I will definitely talk to him about Initiative and readying actions, though, because what happens if someone from my party were to be targeted instead of me and they're not optimized? Death, death everywhere.

Yunru
2019-10-27, 05:39 PM
My poor Rogue had 9 HP and leather armor and was killed immediately by a natural 20 when I stealthily snuck up to a door, checked for traps, unlocked it, and slowly opened it.
It's at that point that you hold up the game to ask how they noticed you.
Although I guess one could of been fortunate enough to be looking at the door as you slowly opened it.

Aimeryan
2019-10-28, 05:20 AM
Initiative is meant to stop one side having all the actions before another side. Surprise rounds allow for this, however, they require one side has no expectation of combat at that time. As for readying outside of combat, it doesn't happen - the initiative system is meant to handle reacting to such things. Advantage to the initiative roll is the usual benefit of being ready for something in particular.

Here are some example cases:


The players had been stealthy, they had a plan to rush in and engage the enemy, and the enemy had absolutely no idea that the players were around :: I would rule that the players get a surprise round.
The players had been stealthy, they had a plan to rush in and engage the enemy, however, the enemy had been spooked for some reason :: I would rule that the players get advantage on the initiative roll.
The enemy had an idea that the players were around or the players did not try to engage the enemy stealthily :: I would rule that neither side would get any advantage on initiative rolls.
The enemy knew the players were about to enter the room and was stealthily waiting for them inside prepared to attack the moment the door opened, and the players had no idea this was about to happen, but were still expecting general danger (which is usual for adventurers) :: I would give the enemy side advantage on the initiative roll. - It could be that this was the sort of case your DM was going for.
The enemy stealthily lay in wait in an area the players had no expectation of danger - the player's own hideout maybe, or a peaceful temple, or a tranquil glade they go to relax at :: I would rule the enemy gets a surprise round.


It is also worth noting the cover rules; the walls and door, and creatures in front of other creatures, would mean that a lot of those attacks would be aiming at a higher AC - +2AC for most of them (getting in each other's way), +5AC if they were not able to get a good line of fire at all.


Edit: Cleaned up the cases for easier reading and added the cover comment.

~~~

As for the build, as others have mentioned, consider how likely you are to get strength boosting items; these are particularly great for Sorcadins because they don't get many ASIs/Feats yet need to boost Cha, perhaps Con directly, and still get things like Warcaster (1h+shield, reaction spells), Res. Con (concentration), Mobile (Booming Blade), Sentinel (if tanking), Mounted Combatant (if using Find Steed), Inspiring Leader, GWM+PAM (if 2H), etc. You only want some of those, but you get the point - you can't really afford to boost Str as well.

Gauntlets of Ogre Power (https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Gauntlets%20of%20Ogre%20Power#content) are only uncommon; in AL games you can grab these at very early levels guaranteed. If you think the DM may make these easily available (loot, quest, shop, etc.) then you can lower you Str to 13 (or less if the DM allows multiclassing with the requirement or allows the Gauntlets to do so) - boost your Dex (saves, initiative) and perhaps Wisdom (saves) instead. Before the Gauntlets, you can still wear heavy armour, but there will be a movement penalty - Find Steed can help there.

Otherwise, I would recommend a Hexblade dip for the goodies it has and to allow you to ignore boosting Str. You then have a choice of 13 or 15 Str, depending on whether you want to take the movement penalty or not (or use Find Steed). Mobile feat also offsets it and works well with Booming Blade. The unmodified Eldritch Blast is a decent ranged option for when you need it.

Guy Lombard-O
2019-10-28, 06:26 AM
While it may not be 100% optimal for the long term, you might consider taking Heavy Armor Master for your VHuman feat. It'll help a great deal against those masses of incoming missile weapons from mobs, which is apparently going to be a big thing in your DM's campaign. And really, there's not much point in worrying about how it'll play at higher levels, if you just die at first or second level...

ravenkith
2019-10-28, 07:57 AM
First, a little description of my DM's MO (he's an old-school player from AD&D-4e): My DM likes to have rooms full of enemies ready their action and loose their arrows/bolts right when I am in sight (I play a Fighter in his other campaign and he one-shot my previous character for this campaign, a Rogue, in the first session). He actively tries to kill us and unfortunately for me, most of my party members are RP focused and will try RP shenanigans during a fight (e.g. use their action to do pretty much anything other than being helpful in a fight). It's fun and hilarious, but I get frustrated because of how difficult combat is since instead of it being 5 vs enemies, it's more like 2 vs enemies. We are level 1 and we have (had) a Swords Bard, a Gloom Stalker Ranger, a Wizard with no DPR cantrips, a s&b Fighter, and a now deceased Arcane Trickster Rogue (me). Archetypes were planned ahead of time.

So in an attempt to build the strongest Sorcadin possible to survive (high AC+high saves), my question is this: What is the optimal ASI/Feat progression for a heavy armor, sword and shield VHuman Vengeance Paladin 0-6 -> Divine Soul Sorcerer 0-14, assuming that I want to take War Caster, Resilient: Con, and x2 ASI's (+4 to Cha), and +1 ASI/Feat? My ability scores with point-buy before a feat are 16-8-15-8-8-16 (Str-Dex-Con-Int-Wis-Cha).

I cannot choose War Caster at level 1, so I was thinking of choosing Resilient: Constitution to get 16 Con. The problem is that now I have to choose between +2 Cha or War Caster at level 4 Paladin. Any thoughts?

The problem *may* be in your tactics.

As one possible answer to the idea that all the bad guys have readied actions all the time, you could try using illusions/summons.

If your DM is using readied actions to set up a round of attacks in advance say "on the first person i see" or "the first enemy that comes through the door", send in someone/something expendable, such as a summoned monster or an illusion of a party member, or better yet, charm an animal or a mook (Charm/Animal friends are both 1st level spells), and send them in to die for you.

Alternatively, prep a strategy that improves the odds of surviving that first round, such as having a high AC (should be able to get a 20 or higher easy, while wielding a shield) and take the dodge action (giving all your enemies disadvantage to hit you). Having a high AC makes it hard to hit you, and making people roll twice and take the lower result is what makes this really shine.

Last but not least, if you ever manage to make level 2, there's a cheesy strategy involving the warlock using the Devil's sight invocation and the Darkness spell which could make your life easier.

In short, there's some tactical stuff that can make this problem easier to get around.

In terms of character creation, however, I would see about building out a warforged Paladin: the Envoy type comes with some nifty benefits, but the primary gain here is integrated armor, which allows you to get access to pretty good armor options early that scale as you level (AC 16 + proficiency bonus (2 at level 1) plus a wielded shield (2) means you'll be trotting around with an AC of 20 at level 1 all the time. If you add the dodge action to that first round as you go through the door, NOTHING should hit you reliably at level 1.

Doing the math on this, your average CR 1 beastie has an attack bonus of somewhere between 4 and 6.

This means that with your base AC of 20, if they have that more common +4, they would need to roll a 16, 17 , 18 , 19 or 20 on the die to get a hit, or, basically, 5/20, or 1/4 or 25% chance to hit.

You add the dodge action, and , per this (https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2014/07/12/dnd-5e-advantage-disadvantage-probability/) chart) you move that 25% chance to hit all the way down to just 6.2% chance to hit you.

Even with the rarer +6 to hit, the 35% chance becomes just a 12% chance.

Now imagine going Hexblade at level 2 and acquiring the shield spell. Potentially up to twice a day, you can add +5 to your AC for the round as a reaction.

If used wisely, this one round of 25 AC, in conjunction with the dodge action, could make a the DM's ambush round practically worthless.

Note that adding the Devil's sight invocation (2nd level warlock) and the Darkness spell (3rd level warlock) to this combination makes things EVEN better, potentially giving enemies double disadvantage if you are also dodging (if you are using the stacking disadvantage variant rule).

Just some food for thought.

KorvinStarmast
2019-10-28, 10:28 AM
First, a little description of my DM's MO (he's an old-school player from AD&D-4e)
What is AD&D 4E? Do you mean AD&D 2E? AD&D 1E? (I had DM's like that too ... and I have DM'd some games like that in a very "combat is war" mode - but all of the players were in that mode. It was a small unit tactics fight fest, and lots of fun.

So in an attempt to build the strongest Sorcadin possible to survive (high AC+high saves), my question is this: What is the optimal ASI/Feat progression for a heavy armor, sword and shield VHuman Vengeance Paladin 0-6 -> Divine Soul Sorcerer 0-14, assuming that I want to take War Caster, Resilient: Con, and x2 ASI's (+4 to Cha), and +1 ASI/Feat? My ability scores with point-buy before a feat are 16-8-15-8-8-16 (Str-Dex-Con-Int-Wis-Cha).

I cannot choose War Caster at level 1, so I was thinking of choosing Resilient: Constitution to get 16 Con. The problem is that now I have to choose between +2 Cha or War Caster at level 4 Paladin. Any thoughts?Since you are choosing Paladin first (right?) Resilient Con seems your best bet. I'd take war Caster at 4 and +2 Cha at 8.

JNAProductions
2019-10-28, 10:29 AM
AD&D-4E.

The hyphen is important, indicating that it's AD&D all the way through 4E.

Least, that's how I read it.

Aimeryan
2019-10-28, 10:59 AM
The problem *may* be in your tactics...[snip]

Nope, the problem is definitely in the DM using ready actions as if the all of the enemy are SAS/SWAT who notice a door opening a little and all immediately snap to attention with ranged weapons ready to fire. Ready actions can't be used outside of combat specifically because that is the point of the initiative system - to decide who reacts faster. You can add advantage to the initiative roll if you think it is warranted, but it still means that two groups tend to get mixed in the initiative order to some decree.

That said, your post has good suggestions - illusions and summons are pretty good for going into an unknown area first. At level 1 there is a limited selection and spell slots are precious, but the minor illusion cantrip can work.

Whether you can use the Dodge action outside of combat is a little iffy - it can become very silly where the players are constantly dodging everywhere they go and then maybe creatures should always be dodging if yet to take another action? I would quickly start giving them levels of exhaustion. That said, entering an area that you think may hold immediate danger could easily warrant being cautious enough to start Dodging as you enter.

Shield spell works well for a non-surprised player; any time the character is expecting danger they can't be surprised, and even if they are surprised once their turn comes about (which is then automatically passed) they can then take reactions (which could be before any enemies have gone if the player rolled high initiative).

Expected
2019-10-28, 11:20 AM
What is AD&D 4E? Do you mean AD&D 2E? AD&D 1E? (I had DM's like that too ... and I have DM'd some games like that in a very "combat is war" mode - but all of the players were in that mode. It was a small unit tactics fight fest, and lots of fun.

Since you are choosing Paladin first (right?) Resilient Con seems your best bet. I'd take war Caster at 4 and +2 Cha at 8.


AD&D-4E.

The hyphen is important, indicating that it's AD&D all the way through 4E.

Least, that's how I read it.

Yes, that is exactly what I meant. I apologize for leaving it somewhat vague and easily misinterpreted.

I thought that'd be a good choice, too. 16 Con will help since I can't take War Caster and I will definitely want WC around the time I multiclass.

Thank you for all of your suggestions. If the DM continues to ready actions outside of combat, I will continue to take the Dodge action--it balances out somewhat. I will definitely consider playing an Envoy Warforged--20 AC at level 1 while dodging would frustrate the DM so much he might stop. The illusion idea is great! However, I am a level 1 Paladin with no cantrips or spells and the spellcasters in my party reserve their spell slots for RP uses. They are having fun and I don't want to rain on their parade, so I can just do my best to pick up their slack. I have a few days before session so any more advice is appreciated.

I know the topic is about a Sorcadin, but would a S&B or PAM/GWM/Sentinel Paladin with a 1 level dip in Hexblade be equivalent in DPR and survivability? How useful is the Vengeance Paladin Avenging Angel Feature? And is Bless, then Haste the best use of my concentration?

Aimeryan
2019-10-28, 12:54 PM
I know the topic is about a Sorcadin, but would a S&B or PAM/GWM/Sentinel Paladin with a 1 level dip in Hexblade be equivalent in DPR and survivability? How useful is the Vengeance Paladin Avenging Angel Feature? And is Bless, then Haste the best use of my concentration?

The Sorcerer levels are mostly useful for metamagic (Quicken Booming Blade) and for powering Smite with the extra spell slots; the spells level is too far behind to really hold up (although, Shield/Absorb Elements/Counterspell still is amazing). Divine Soul can add in Spiritual Guardians as an great constant aoe and as a fairly decent tanking/controlling tool (especially paired with Mobile and Booming Blade). The more Sorcerer levels you get the more fuel you have.

Hexblade is awesome for ignoring Str. I would say the Str items are better, but really its minor; attunement comes with its own cost, and the other Hexblade goodies are pretty nice. Your DM sounds like he may particularly throw lots of ranged enemies at you - having an Eldritch Blast up your sleeve might not be a bad idea.

Talking of which, Hasted Vengeance Paladin using Hexblade Curse with Elven Accuracy (Half-Elf best) using Quickened Booming Blade is a smite critting machine; blows apart single enemies. It doesn't come online fully until the third turn (bonus actions for the Vow, the Curse, and then the Quicken), but that is fine because you are usually dealing with minions for the first round or two anyway and you can always start early if needed.

If your DM prefers many enemies instead of one or two then Spiritual Guardians would be my go to concentration spell. Otherwise, Hold Person if Humanoid (crit smite), or Haste if not. Twinning Haste is very useful if you have another player who can make good use of it (Barbarian with GWM is a particular note, Rogue too to ensure Sneak Attack). Bless is useful on a big party where each member is respectable - the d4s quickly start to make a difference.

I don't rate Avenging Angel that highly; capstones have to be pretty amazing for me to not consider multiclassing - flight and a fear aura just isn't it. Flight especially can be achieved much easier through Find Greater Steed, or just a pair of Winged Boots, or Fly spell if needed. As a Sorcadin you also don't need flight - you have spells capable of dealing with fliers or worse-case scenario Quicken teleport and grapple.

BaconSlayer
2019-10-28, 01:24 PM
I apologize for not knowing that. I've never played a spellcaster before so it's something I didn't know. Thank you for explaining it.



My poor Rogue had 9 HP and leather armor and was killed immediately by a natural 20 when I stealthily snuck up to a door, checked for traps, unlocked it, and slowly opened it. Even if the DM hadn't rolled a nat 20, the damage and amount of attacks alone would've knocked me out and made me fail all three death saves immediately. It's not that it's not fun, though, I love the challenge because it encourages me to make the best possible character I can (I love theorycrafting as you can tell) to succeed when I was intended to fail.



If I had a Wizard in my party, I'd suggest using Find Familiar to get a scout and Mage Hand to open doors (you might assist by unlocking them). If your DM insists on ambushing you, an 8 gp mule can at least provide half cover...

For laughs, since he's old-school, ask him if you can lash 2 10 foot poles together to make a 20 foot pole. He should understand.

HiveStriker
2019-10-28, 01:50 PM
First, a little description of my DM's MO (he's an old-school player from AD&D-4e): My DM likes to have rooms full of enemies ready their action and loose their arrows/bolts right when I am in sight (I play a Fighter in his other campaign and he one-shot my previous character for this campaign, a Rogue, in the first session). He actively tries to kill us and unfortunately for me, most of my party members are RP focused and will try RP shenanigans during a fight (e.g. use their action to do pretty much anything other than being helpful in a fight). It's fun and hilarious, but I get frustrated because of how difficult combat is since instead of it being 5 vs enemies, it's more like 2 vs enemies. We are level 1 and we have (had) a Swords Bard, a Gloom Stalker Ranger, a Wizard with no DPR cantrips, a s&b Fighter, and a now deceased Arcane Trickster Rogue (me). Archetypes were planned ahead of time.

So in an attempt to build the strongest Sorcadin possible to survive (high AC+high saves), my question is this: What is the optimal ASI/Feat progression for a heavy armor, sword and shield VHuman Vengeance Paladin 0-6 -> Divine Soul Sorcerer 0-14, assuming that I want to take War Caster, Resilient: Con, and x2 ASI's (+4 to Cha), and +1 ASI/Feat? My ability scores with point-buy before a feat are 16-8-15-8-8-16 (Str-Dex-Con-Int-Wis-Cha).

I cannot choose War Caster at level 1, so I was thinking of choosing Resilient: Constitution to get 16 Con. The problem is that now I have to choose between +2 Cha or War Caster at level 4 Paladin. Any thoughts?
Hi!

First, cards on the table. If DM is actively trying to kill, but in a fair way (not metagaming the exact enemy composition and tactics to counter 100% of the best tactics your group has), what I'm gonna suggest will be, I'm confident, a sound suggestion (not necessarily the best and certainly not the only good one though ;)).

If however he's being unfair... I'd say "might as well rush to death with a smile, then speak ootg to signal to DM there is a limit that was crossed that ruined the fun".
Also, a note: when I say "should" it's obviously "in the context of optimization", not "should SHOULD". To each his own way of fun. :)


Now for Sorcadin. I'm a bit rusty on builds but we should manage.

First, plz let me pull this now so we can put it away immediately: Vengeance is probably the worst Oath as far as survivability (or even tanking) goes. It does fit the job of single-target striker although you'd never get Haste anyways.
More or less any other is better, more on that later.

Second, although it may be hard to predict how everyone will evolve with levels up, I'd say you're lucky (or smart enough) as a whole to have put a very balanced and versatile party.
- Bard and Ranger can adequately switch from frontline to midline to backline. Even Fighter although (I guess since sword & board?) DEX could still switch to javelins when need to fallback. Not sure what you're Wizard is doing actually, but even with utility he can be useful, like using Minor Illusion to try and distract (depends of DM of course), or Mold earth for makeshift covers.
- Ranger could use Ensnaring Strike when you face powerful melee enemies, or otherwise use Zephyr's Strike to try and divide melee groups without risking OA. He should also learn Goodberry ASAP so anyone can put anyother back to 1 HP with an action. Later he really should learn Pass Without Trace and Healing Spirit. Both are party lifesavers, literally.
Not sure how Bard and Wizard see themselves how to play though. Bard should just pick Healing Words and Dissonant Whispers whatever happens, while Wizard should pick at least Fog of Cloud (great way to reduce ranged threat) and Sleep to swap later (useful at low level). Another great spell would be Cause Fear, that is upcastable without friendly fire.

Now provided those basics, for you.
1. Resilient VS Warcaster: usually I'd say "pick just Resilient and forget about Warcaster". The latter does have some more appeal for a Sorcadin, especially on low level (Resilient ups your base success, but advantage provides a better bonus on average. And you could cast spells as a reaction, can be pretty neat).
So I'd actually suggest to...
a) forget about Resilient: Constitution for now UNLESS of course you expect fighting many enemies with CON effects like Ghouls.
b) get Warcaster as your first "normal" feat and +2 CHA immediately after (for Aura of protection and DC).
c) actually pick Inspiring Leader as your first feat.
--> It's every short rest, so while you don't *always* master pacing, it's still usable on average two times per day. At level 1, it's "only 4" THP, yet for those characters it can definitely transform a "I'm down" hit to a "I'm hurt but can still act" one. And since it scales with character level, you don't care about how you plan your leveling.

2. Metamagics: Since you pick Divine Soul (excellent choice ^^), and you consider it's a deadly campaign, Extend metamagic should be mandatory pick, to pair with Aid (get ASAP either Paladin or Sorc, if Sorc swap-learn when you get Paladin 5). I'd also recommend Subtle as a second initial choice, but Quicken would be solid too. I'd steer away from Twin, unless you really want a crazy nova option "Twin Booming Blade with "twin" smites on top: it would eat at your resources very fast. Of course you're a Sorcadin so it's much more manageable than a pure Paladin, but still. You'll have so many great spells to use... ^^
Aid will really start feeling valuable once you can upcast it as a 4th level spell, but still, at low level even just 5 THP may help. More importantly, you could cast Mage Armor on Wizard "for free", or improve your Ranger's "scoutiness" by making him Invisible or Enhancing his perception for a longer time, or prebuff Fighter with Longstrider before you enter the dungeon with a much lesser probability the effect wears away too early.

3. Oath. If you're dead set on Vengeance, so be it (I don't see the point tbh: you wouldn't get Haste -and you can learn it as Sorcerer), Misty Step is learnable as a Sorcerer, and Oath ability means you'd rush right into the melee, which seems to go against self-preservation ^^). Otherwise...
- If you'll focus on self-survivability, pick Ancients and go 7/13. Resistance to magic is invaluable imhx when DM is in deadly campaign mode. Plus you still get Misty Step.
- If you'll focus on versatility, go Devotion: Sacred Weapon ensures you bypass physical resistances (which may be a big deal if DM rarely gives magic weapons), and can be applies on ranged weapons so if need be you can be as good as Ranger and Fighter on ranged attacks. Sanctuary and Protection from Good and Evil are situational but can really make a difference.
- If you'll focus on tanking those RP-heavy people, Conquest (requires level 7) and Crown are great support oaths in different ways...
* First relies on YOU being the main frontliner and try to frighten as many people as possible. Meaning in turn you won't fear melee, but you'll be a prime target for ranged attackers: making Warding Wind the definitive option when unsure of timing (or go with Blur that works on all attacks, but lasts only one minute). And you can get Fear as a Sorcerer anyways.
* Second relies on you standing along someone else with Warding Bond, probably another frontliner in general although nothing prevents you from also defending Wizard while slinging cantrips or spells. :) And it features Channel Divinity and spells that do a good job attracting people to you. ^^

3. Spells
Catnap will be a great facilitator for your Bard and Fighter, as well as for your own CD.
Besides that, just pick whatever you feel suits your archetype and playstyle (and metamagic): the only given as a Divine Soul Sorcerer are imo Aid as said, Healing Words, Death Ward. And Spirit Guardians if you go tanking. As well as Counterspell like any Sorcerer.
Have fun!

KorvinStarmast
2019-10-28, 02:12 PM
Yes, that is exactly what I meant. I apologize for leaving it somewhat vague and easily misinterpreted. And now that it was explained, it makes perfect sense. I just wasn't familair with that short hand ... learn something new every day. :)

Reevh
2019-10-28, 02:38 PM
I'd suggest that if your party is RP-focused and not able to do a lot in combat, the solution isn't to roll up a godly character like a sorcadin. That will just make you an extra obnoxious outlier in combat. You're better off rolling something more similar to your party, and if a TPK happens, either your DM adjusts or you can see if the players are interested in rolling more powerful characters next time.

Expected
2019-10-28, 02:57 PM
I'd suggest that if your party is RP-focused and not able to do a lot in combat, the solution isn't to roll up a godly character like a sorcadin. That will just make you an extra obnoxious outlier in combat. You're better off rolling something more similar to your party, and if a TPK happens, either your DM adjusts or you can see if the players are interested in rolling more powerful characters next time.

I thought of that, too, however I have more fun with combat and my party members hog all of the spotlight during RP.