Optimal Monk Race+Archetype

[Expected]

I'm considering creating a Monk, but I have never played one before and do not know how to min-max it. Assuming 27 point buy, any race, any background, all source books, and starting at level 1, how would you optimize a Monk? Is multiclassing a good idea? What ASI/Feat progression would you use? What does a typical turn for a Monk look like? Any advice is welcome.

I'm liking Wood Elf (Elven Accuracy at level 4) Aarakocra (flight) and VHuman (Mobile at level 1) as a race and Way of the Open Hand for archetype. If I get Bracers of Defense and Cloak/Ring of Protection, I am going to attune to those unless I find something better.

[Frozenstep]

That's pretty open-ended. The thing is there are multiple things you can optimize for. Might be best to start out with a monk guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?580600-With-All-The-Force-of-a-Great-Typhoon-A-5e-Guide-to-the-Monk) and get an idea of what's possible, and then come back with an idea of what roles you specifically want to be able to do.

[Expected]

That's pretty open-ended. The thing is there are multiple things you can optimize for. Might be best to start out with a monk guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?580600-With-All-The-Force-of-a-Great-Typhoon-A-5e-Guide-to-the-Monk) and get an idea of what's possible, and then come back with an idea of what roles you specifically want to be able to do.

Thank you for the link. It has a lot of useful information.

You're right--I should've specified. I'm looking to play a controller with Stunning Strike/Open Hand Technique and the ability to take hits. I'm just concerned about the lack of range--Aarakocra can fly to the enemy and Stunning Strike but what about other races?

[Lunali]

Far from optimal, but if you need to deal with things at range, there are several viable simple ranged weapons. Alternatively, winged boots combined with monk speed close distances almost every time.

[Expected]

Far from optimal, but if you need to deal with things at range, there are several viable simple ranged weapons. Alternatively, winged boots combined with monk speed close distances almost every time.

The Winged Boots would be just what I need. It says they're wondrous and uncommon--should they be easy or likely to find (not AL)?

[Lunali]

Availability of magical items will vary wildly depending on the DM. By the default setting, magic items are available through random treasure. Almost every DM (even including AL) will have some additional availability, either through customizing random drops a little, quest rewards, or magic item shops.

[Expected]

With further research into Monk builds, I am considering either Aarakocra (stunning flying enemies without the need for Winged Boots) or Wood Elf (for 18 Dex and triple advantage when I have advantage on attack rolls). How do Elven Accuracy and Flight compare? How about if the DM uses flanking rules?

[Misterwhisper]

With further research into Monk builds, I am considering either Aarakocra (stunning flying enemies without the need for Winged Boots) or Wood Elf (for 18 Dex and triple advantage when I have advantage on attack rolls). How do Elven Accuracy and Flight compare? How about if the DM uses flanking rules?

Monks need so many stats, I would not count on getting a feat unless you are a variant human.

You have proficiency and a great dex so carry a short bow just in case.

Wood elf is a great choice.
Variant human if you really want a feat.

Subclass wise, either drunken master or open hand if you want to be self sustaining, shadow if you are the rogue of the group, the rest are pretty crappy.

[Frozenstep]

With further research into Monk builds, I am considering either Aarakocra (stunning flying enemies without the need for Winged Boots) or Wood Elf (for 18 Dex and triple advantage when I have advantage on attack rolls). How do Elven Accuracy and Flight compare? How about if the DM uses flanking rules?

If DM uses flanking rules, Elven accuracy would come up a lot, but I think I'd rather have the flight. Lost and need to spot the nearest town? Fly up and look around. Enemies up on the high ground? Fly up there and literally kick them off with open hand technique. Enemy throws down grease/plant growth/web/difficult terrain? Flown over. Enemy with insanely dangerous melee abilities? Hit and run from the air.

It's useful in and out of combat. Only thing that would make me stop is if the DM somehow rules monk speed increases don't apply to AArakocra flight.

[Talsin]

With further research into Monk builds, I am considering either Aarakocra (stunning flying enemies without the need for Winged Boots) or Wood Elf (for 18 Dex and triple advantage when I have advantage on attack rolls). How do Elven Accuracy and Flight compare? How about if the DM uses flanking rules?

I would adivse going toward Aarakocra over Wood Elf if you are given the option. With a 27-point build, you will be craving each and every ASI and likely will not want to spend it on even a half-feat. Critical hits for an open-hand monk are nice, but consistency and a higher DC are going to get you more mileage over elven accuracy - when you are building for control.

[HiveStriker]

I'm considering creating a Monk, but I have never played one before and do not know how to min-max it. Assuming 27 point buy, any race, any background, all source books, and starting at level 1, how would you optimize a Monk? Is multiclassing a good idea? What ASI/Feat progression would you use? What does a typical turn for a Monk look like? Any advice is welcome.

I'm liking Wood Elf (Elven Accuracy at level 4) Aarakocra (flight) and VHuman (Mobile at level 1) as a race and Way of the Open Hand for archetype. If I get Bracers of Defense and Cloak/Ring of Protection, I am going to attune to those unless I find something better.
Hi again!

So...
"How would you optimize a Monk?"
Depends on so many things I won't even start here. XD

Is multiclassing a good idea?
Same answer, with emphasis on "target curve progression" and "archetype choice".
Basic answer would be: "it never hurts if you know why you multiclass, but it's completely dispensable, and probably not that good of an idea if you expect to reach char level 14+".
For a few leads...
- Classes for single-level dip: Rogue (Expertise), Cleric (Domain things, Bless 2*times per day not that bad, Sacred Flame for decent ranged attack), Hexblade Warlock (harder because CHA but Booming Blade, GreenFlame Blade, Minor Illusion, Shield and aMage Armor or a utility spell usable once per short rest is not bad), Draconic Sorcerer (perfect to get lots of cantrips + Shield and utility, with perma Mage Armor) or Divine (help on a save useful at low level + free Bless learn).
- Classes for two-level dips: Moon (beast versatility) or Shepherd (great aura) Druid for immense versatility, Tempest/Grave/Nature/Light Cleric depending on Monk archetype and taste, still Rogue for Cunning Action, still Warlock for 2 slots per short rest.
- Classes for three-level dips: Druid and Cleric (Trickery added for Pass Without Trace) only normally, Warlock (Tome) and Sorcerer (Draconic/Shadow) for Subtle and Extend to pair with utility like Enhance Ability. Those are the only one imo that are worth delaying that much Monk progression AND barring Empty Body while still considering your character a Monk first and foremost. Any more, you're barring lvl 17 feature which is as big, or even bigger, of a dealbreaker depending on archetype.

A few example of combination that pay off especially in the long run:
- Grave with Open Hand or Death: may seem redundant on Open Hand, but high CR creatures are very likely to make a CON save. Yet since you choose the time, it's easy to plan the use of CD. Timing with Death is a bit trickier, but you can profit from it much earlier and it also bypass resistance AND EVEN immunity to necrotic which is a big deal as it is quite common.
- Tempest with 4 Elements: especially suited if you don't expect to get past char level 10: that way you can really maximize the use of Shatter as a Monk discipline, while keeping long-rest classic slots on things that really help you be a great Monk (Bless/Shield of Faith) or help others (Bless/Healing Words).
- Shepherd Druid with Kensei Monk: Hawk spirit can help yourself as well as other on ranged attacks, the THP although wouldn't scale is still a decent benefit up to mid-level, and you get many different utility that are great in any situation.
- Moon Druid with any Monk but especially Shadow & 4E (extreme spy) or Open Hand & Drunken (tanking): depends on DM, but if agrees that you can use most of your abilities and class features, it can be incredible for quite a while. Past level 8-9 beast HP becomes too light, but it's still great as utility.
- GOO Warlock with Shadow: obvious "Devil Sight" combination. :)
- Arcana with any Cleric, but especially Shadow and Death: Booming Blade without feat or convoluted stat (ok, you can also grab it as a racial to be fair).
- Zeal Cleric with Sun Soul / 4E: bonus damage to fire and radiant synergizes well with both.

What ASI/Feat progression would you use?
Again, really depends on wish and playstyle.
The only thing I'd always pick on any single-class (or 1-level dip class) Monk is Mobile feat. This is just a powerhouse in sparing your bonus actions and Ki points that whatever archetype you pick, this will amount to Ki points by the hundreds when you reach levels 14+.

Besides that, I always consider that...
- Basic thinking of Monk is you want to max DEX and WIS "by default"
- BUT...
* all archetypes can cope very well with "ditching" one stat: for example, you can completely be fine with only 16 WIS as a Shadow, because only Stunning Strike requires it. Exactly the same with Kensei While Open Hand craves for it because everything relies on it, especially the gamechanger Quivering Palm. Other archetype need both if you want to exploit 100% of their abilities, but can be tailored around a subset of abilities and still be very effective. Even on the AC side, there are many workarounds to rely solely on DEX, while attack can be made purely on WIS (or even CHA ^^).
* a +1 makes a difference in stats in the long run, and you'll be frustrated when something fails "just by that 1 missing", but honestly many feats are far worth the tradeoff if it's what you're looking for: example, Ritual Caster with friendly DM or caster pals in invaluable in the right hands. Elven Accuracy paired with a Druid's Faerie Fire largely surpasses one point less on attack stat. Observant paired with level 13 (understand everything" makes any Monk marvelous at spying when paired with his mobility (especially Shadow and 4E).
Racial feats, especially Elves ones, provide solid spells that can change the way you face (or avoid) a challenge.

So I usually plan my character for a level 14 target, with no pressure on having both stats at 18/20 but just having the one I consider "main" as 18.


I'm liking Wood Elf (Elven Accuracy at level 4) Aarakocra (flight) and VHuman (Mobile at level 1) as a race and Way of the Open Hand for archetype. If I get Bracers of Defense and Cloak/Ring of Protection, I am going to attune to those unless I find something better.
Sounds solid all three, but Elven Accuracy requires advantage to trigger. Plan on how to get that souce other way than with Flurry of Blows. After all, this consumes Ki (small pool at low level), and it happens after your Attack. Unless your party is melee heavy, it may not be worth taking at that level, compared to Mobile (which oppositely would free up Ki).
Honestly I'd go Wood Elf with Mobile at level 4.

[Expected]

I would adivse going toward Aarakocra over Wood Elf if you are given the option. With a 27-point build, you will be craving each and every ASI and likely will not want to spend it on even a half-feat. Critical hits for an open-hand monk are nice, but consistency and a higher DC are going to get you more mileage over elven accuracy - when you are building for control.

I completely agree. Interestingly, there's no difference between the Dex and Wis of a Wood Elf and Aarakocra at each level.

Aarakocra
8-16-14-8-16-10
+2 Cha ASI at level 4

Wood Elf
8-17-14-8-16-8
EA feat at level 4 for +1 Dex and triple advantage

From there, they are at the same ability scores and the difference is flight and trivantage.

[GrumpyHobbit]

I am considering this - could be something for you if your DM approves


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0b/7a/e6/0b7ae6eb61e932757760ee79c40fc620.png