How To Be A Perfect Villain In A RPG

[Bartmanhomer]

Ok time to switch sides because I feel like the RPG has enough heroes to go around. How can you be the perfect villain in a RPG? Like can a bad guy or girl get a win once for a change? :confused:

[One Step Two]

A perfect villain is an odd question, but it comes down to your ultimate goal. Sometimes the answer is being very much like a Hero.

To use a very antiquated, if classic, example. Saving the life of a Princess from a Dragon to earn her hand in marriage. A Brave Hero rides forth to slay the dragon, princess saved, he becomes the future king. A Villain might use guile and deceit to steal the princess away and poison the dragon, but he still saves the princess, and thus becomes the future king. Heck, you might accidentally create a "dragon" that you need to stop before it causes more harm than you intended, and end up getting a princess in the process anyway! (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1001526/) I guess this is where I say Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel?

What are the goals for this supposed Villain exactly? That would be the first question to ask, after that, it's a matter of being willing to use underhanded means to reach your ends, the kind that most Hero's would balk at, because of their own morality stopping them doing what needs to be done.

[Arbane]

Steal or break something of the PCs'. They will topple Heaven and Earth to get revenge.

[Kaptin Keen]

I think the perfect villain can be many things - but the perfect playable villain is a narrower scope.

If you're playing with other people, you need to not just be a massive pain in the backside. That means you shouldn't play like you're the Joker (Joker is, btw, a perfect villain - for his purpose). I'd say the perfect villain is an ironfisted, lawful evil anti-hero. Someone who might work for the right cause, but use all the wrong tools.

I do not believe doing the right thing for the wrong reasons really works. A mercenary mindset - to me - simply seems like too little to work with, to make an interesting character.

Also, and this really is the key point, if you want to play a villain, you need to know what he loves. And not something inane, like the smell of napalm in the morning. His nation, his home, his wife and family ... whatever it might be, it needs to be there to humanize him, to make him believable.

A Khorne worshipper works well as an example. Blood for the blood god is a piss poor motivation. Sure, it has a sliver of cheap drama to it, but there isn't really a character there. Just a violent maniac who doesn't even wash off the blood between slaughterings. A highly imperfect villain.

And as a counter-example, I usually use Dracula - who works primarily because he's motivated by his love of Elizabetha. But Dracula is not a perfect villain. He's good enough to have survived more than 100 years though, so he isn't all bad. Or, well, you know.

One of my campaigns has what I consider a perfect villain. The campaign is about a kingdom ruled by a good and just king - and the kingdom is at war, and losing, to aggressive neighbors. One of the kings generals is a Blackguard, who sets villages ablaze, kills innocents, burns crops, tortures captives, impales wounded enemy soldiers - all the paraphernalia of an evil warlord. However, he also happens to be the only general who invariably returns victorious from his battles. Among his 'redeeming qualities' is that he loves his country, is unflinchingly loyal to his king, he's sensitive in the 'cries when he hears beautiful music' kinda way, and his utter dedication to winning this war is in part because it has cost the lives of two of his sons. He writes bad poetry, and sings uproarioushly lewd songs at parties. But he's still an evil bastard through and through.

[King of Nowhere]

First of all you have to clarify if you mean a villain pc (and then a villain pc in a good campaign or an evil campaign) or a villain npc, i.e. a big bad.
I assume it's npc, so i willanswer accordingly


Like can a bad guy or girl get a win once for a change? :confused:

I say, absolutely. In fact, a good villain should have some victories, else he comes across as weak. This guy wants to dominate the world, and he cannever best 4-6 people? He's just a deluded megalomaniac. A good villain must have a clear motivation, a realistic goal, and believable means of getting it.
Take xykon: he has a clear (if silly) motivation, he wants to conquer the world by controlling the snarl, and he is powerful and resourceful enough - in a low-level world like oots - that he actually has a good shoot at it. Good villain. He got to win several times.
Compare to nale; he has no real goal besides horrible revenge on anyone slighting him, his motivation is dumb. He was a comedy relief more than a real villain, though he was at least competent enough to be a credible threat.

As for the rest, look at the evil overlord list. A good villain follows it, and where he doesn't, it's because he can't.
A good villain has heroic qualities. He may be a patriot, a father to his men, he may have good goals, whatever, he may just be resourceful enough that you can't help respecting him. but he has to be respected by the players to be a succesful villain.
And if the players respect this guy, they won't mind having to run every once in a while

[noob]

What is perfection in villainy?
Is it being the best at being a villain from the POV of the villain or from the POV of the hero or from the POV of the player?
For a hero the best villain is the one that gives them the most fame and wealth and is easiest to beat and that is nice enough to wait for them to do any villainous things.
For a villain perfection is when they make sure they are never defeated and get all they want.
For a player the best villain depends on what they want at the moment.

[Mastikator]

Just play an evil character? I feel like there's an abundance of villainous PCs out there and probably here.

[Psyren]

Have them keep the Evil Overlord List (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilOverlordList) in their pocket.

[Red Fel]

I guess this is where I say Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel?

It is!


Ok time to switch sides because I feel like the RPG has enough heroes to go around. How can you be the perfect villain in a RPG? Like can a bad guy or girl get a win once for a change? :confused:

Let me answer your questions in reverse order.

First: Can a villain win? Absolutely.

Second: How can you be the perfect villain? The answer to that is the same as the answer to the question, "How can you be the perfect hero?"

You can't.

Look, as a famously abridged Saiyan once said, "You're either perfect, or you're not me." And then he got flattened. But that's a fact. All villains can't be me. So don't try.

You don't want to be a "perfect" villain. You don't have to be, to win; heroes aren't perfect either. You just need to be the best villain - the best you - that you can be. Every day, in every way, you just try to make the scar you leave on the world a bit bigger, and a bit uglier.

You don't have to rewrite history. You don't have to steal the power of the gods or render half the population sterile. You don't need to cast the world into a dark, nightmarish slumber from which there is no escape, or open the gates of the end times to the sounds of weeping and screams.

Being a villain is like singing. The trick, you see, is to simply sing within the normal speaking range of your voice. It's speaking to the music. Villainy is the same thing. Don't try to build a death machine when your Engineering skill is rank 0. Don't try to enchant the minds of world leaders as a Fighter. Just do what it is you do, the best you can, the worst for everyone else. That's all anyone could ask. If you do your thing, and do it well, you'll cause at least a few nightmares. At least one or two local heroes will be sent to stop you. And maybe they'll fail, and your legend will grow. And maybe they'll succeed, and you'll rise again as a nightmare creature or shambling abomination. It's personal, is the point.

Now, if you have a specific question - like "Where can I order parts for an atomic disassembler ray," or "How do I invoke the Old Ones under the Grand Cross to raise the Lost Continent" - then I suggest buying my book, on shelves everywhere obscene and forbidden texts are sealed away from the public eye.

Get yours today!

[Kelb_Panthera]

There are only two notable differences between a hero and a villain; the methods they're willing to employ (though see anti-hero) and their ultimate goals.

In both cases, you've got someone who's driven to see the world as they would have it and they're competent, courageous, and powerful enough to at least make a solid go of it, if not make it happen.

Perfect is another matter altogether. Redfel has the right of it, in that it's an unachievable goal and it depends on what you mean by perfect anyway.

I mean, who's the better hero; superman or batman? Plain to see which is more powerful, certainly, and smarter is close to call but they both make incredibly admirable figures for completely different reasons and, here's the kicker, there've been story arcs where they've both been excellent, terrifying villains as well.

Personally, I like the eldritch horror from beyond the ken of mortals and normal space type of villain. To interact with it in any way is inherently deleterious to the protagonist and, in many cases, it can never be truly defeated.

[False God]

I would say, in brief:

If you're a player, you should be as genre-savvy as possible. To ensure your long-term survival and party-friendliness.

If you're an evil NPC, you should stick to the tropes. To give the party lots of opportunities to take you town.