Looking at monk, is Perfect Self actually underrated?

[Greywander]

Empty Body lets you spend 4 ki to turn invisible for 1 minute and gives you resistance to all damage except force damage. There are no conditions given to break invisibility, so you can attack and everything. It's basically 1 minute of advantage on all your attacks and disadvantage on all attacks against you, resistance to (basically) all damage, and immunity to spells that require the caster to see the target.

As mentioned, it costs 4 ki.

Perfect Self gives you 4 ki if you start combat with no ki.

:smallconfused: HMMMMMMMMMMMM.....

I mean, it's still underwhelming as a capstone, but being able to fight all day with a guarantied 1 minute Greater Invisibility + damage resistance for every fight isn't a bad deal.

[NNescio]

Empty Body lets you spend 4 ki to turn invisible for 1 minute and gives you resistance to all damage except force damage. There are no conditions given to break invisibility, so you can attack and everything. It's basically 1 minute of advantage on all your attacks and disadvantage on all attacks against you, resistance to (basically) all damage, and immunity to spells that require the caster to see the target.

As mentioned, it costs 4 ki.

Perfect Self gives you 4 ki if you start combat with no ki.

:smallconfused: HMMMMMMMMMMMM.....

I mean, it's still underwhelming as a capstone, but being able to fight all day with a guarantied 1 minute Greater Invisibility + damage resistance for every fight isn't a bad deal.

Trying to benefit from it this way for every fight (after the first) means no Stunning Strike/Flurry/Step of the Wind.

SS in particular is critical because it's your main shtick at higher levels.

[AdAstra]

Perfect Self is more like the backup plan for when you're not able to get a short rest, which you should be trying to do whenever practical. If you have two encounters per short rest, you can spend 10 ki per combat on average, which should be more than enough to use Empty Body if necessary and Stun the biggest threat for a good couple turns/burn off legendary resistances. Perfect Self is just what you use when you've exhausted everything and then suddenly around the next corner is another pile of enemies.

Empty Body is great, being at bare minimum equivalent to a 6th level spell (probably closer to 7th or 8th, given that it's basically Greater Invisibility+non-force resistance with no concentration), the only issue being the Action cost that also locks out Flurry of Blows. Empty Body is best for the long slugfests that Monks usually suffer in. Big juicy targets? It'll often be better to just run in and shut them down ASAP.

[HiveStriker]

Empty Body lets you spend 4 ki to turn invisible for 1 minute and gives you resistance to all damage except force damage. There are no conditions given to break invisibility, so you can attack and everything. It's basically 1 minute of advantage on all your attacks and disadvantage on all attacks against you, resistance to (basically) all damage, and immunity to spells that require the caster to see the target.

As mentioned, it costs 4 ki.

Perfect Self gives you 4 ki if you start combat with no ki.

:smallconfused: HMMMMMMMMMMMM.....

I mean, it's still underwhelming as a capstone, but being able to fight all day with a guarantied 1 minute Greater Invisibility + damage resistance for every fight isn't a bad deal.
It's extremely underrated.

First because what you said: people are all "yeah but that means no SS / QV or whatever".
At level 20, you should not need Stunning Strike to take care of mid-CR creatures. And high CR creatures would require probably the full three attempts at Stunning to maybe succeed one round (not to mention Quivering Palm, very improbable to land on first try with creatures having +13 or more to CON saves).

Those same creatures which usually have impressive to-hit and multiple attacks, which means "just 20 AC" just implies "I will be hit only so many times", each time dealing usually somewhere between 15 and 20 damage best case. Not including spells that require to see creatures that can still be dangerous for Monk, even with proficiencies everywhere. Not including the AOE that target something else than DEX (far less common, but there are still quite a nice number).

With just 4 Ki points, for one full minute, Monk gets...
- advantage on attacks against most creatures (interestingly, even at very high CR, not that many creatures get Blindsight or Tremorsense or other special way to locate someone). So like Monk tried and Shoved on every turn, eating up an attack.
- disadvantage imposed on enemy attacks for most creatures (same). So like Monk used Dodge as a bonus action for a Ki.
- resistance to all damage (which means that for spells that inflict damage on a failed save, it reduces damage to acceptable level instead of needing to spend a Ki to reroll and hope for the best. And for weapon attacks, you double your life esperance).

That's far, far more of a better value for the fight overall than a few attempts at Stun, except the rare case where you happent to be certain that the targeted creature can be ended in the next round provided it's stunned and it's dangerous enough you can't afford to let it act one round (honestly no example right now).

Second, because chaining up fights without pacing for short rests sadly can happen more often than you'd expect (and find reasonable) even at level 20, imx at least. XD
It depends very much on party composition, DM and quests of course.. ^^

Third, because those 4 ki does not impose to use Empty Body at all. So if you really consider this is the best tactic, you're perfectly free to blow everything up on Stunning Strike attempts.

So yeah. In a heavily short-rest focused party, chances are you'll rarely have any use for it. In a party with Wizards or Druid, who tend per their features and spells to anticipate challenges and plan up ahead, chances are you'll rarely find yourself hungry for ki because they'll have Catnap, Leomund's, or even more convoluted tricks (like letting you rest while giving a way to catch up -Phantom Steed, Transport via Plants, or a companion to give some example) to ensure party avoids bad surprises.
Pick a party of mainly martials, half-casters or otherwise (Monk aside obviously)? Those tend to plan just enough to avoid the most blatant dangers or it's easy enough, but rarely feel the necessity to rest until they really depleted all their resources or were really hammered hard enough to need Hit Die... XD

[Yunru]

No, it's a good-but-not-great feature, which is where it's rated (by me, at least :P).
The action cost is the real drawback, although there are enemies that can see through invisibility, and they get more common at higher levels.

[HiveStriker]

No, it's a good-but-not-great feature, which is where it's rated (by me, at least :P).
The action cost is the real drawback, although there are enemies that can see through invisibility, and they get more common at higher levels.
Note: the thread was actually about Perfect Self (get 4 Ki when you roll Initiative while having 0 ki in pool). :P

About senses: the real dealbreaker is imo the truesight at 120 feet, because there is little a Monk can do about it except Kensei.

For the rest, indeed Empty Body won't help if you try and get close and personal against many CR 16+ creatures because they will have at the very least 30 feet of blindsight/truesight.

Sad thing is, those same creatures have an average of +5 to CON saves, with some of the nastiest sporting a much higher one. ^^
Let's put aside the AC problem and say every attack hits: creatures have still at least 35% chance to make the save. So you'll usually manage to stun it two rounds at best.

Where I disagree with the general opinion is that, whatever Ki points you have, it's always the best course of action to simply spam Stunning Strike instead of anything else (not only Empty Body but also regular class/archetype features). I daresay that, even at that level, it greatly depends on what actual threat the particular creature(s) represent for the party.

Let's take a few examples.
First, the classic Pit Fiend, a truely nasty beast. if party has many martials and little ways to push Wisdom saves (let's recall not every player around optimizes nor has access to feats), what use is there for anyone else than a Monk or some Paladins (ok, if you have a smart Cleric that has Calm Emotions, it can work ^^) to close into mele range? They'd have a high chance to get frightened for a few rounds (aura being active even if stunned), and that's highly detrimental.
All the while, Pit Fiend has spells that really motivate to stay scattererd (at will Fireball can be nasty), but barring that only has melee attacks and a 60 feet fly speed.

Isn't it better to simply keep everyone scattered around, using ranged attacks for martials, while using low-level spells with decent chance of working to debilitate Fiend or prevent it to catch up with fly as needed, or move away faster than him?
In other words, Stunning Strike is actually one feature that has the most chance of success overall since magic resistance wouldn't apply, but my point is...
- Either your party has a sound plan to kill it in two rounds max, in which case it's indeed largely worth even if plan worked without Stunning Strike because it makes the creature harmless and immobile.
- Or your party will still need at least several more rounds to kill it, which means you need a solid strategy to mitigate the threat while you kill it with moderate amount of resources anyways.
And in that case, how would those two rounds be vital when Monk could otherwise use abilities to bait/tank Fiend (whether with Empty Body's half damage or just Dodge for several rounds and possibly keep a Ki for save reroll, Monk is still by far the best tank party could have barring Paladins or some Barbarian)?

Pick an iconic Ancient Dragon: with +7 to save, Stunning Strike is probably simply out of the question.
Meanwhile, Monk could lure it into wasting its Breath early (himself risking very little since it's DEX) then either facetank him with Dodge as bonus action, or use Empty Body and use a short bow with advantage, or if Open Hand prone it on Flurry with melee pals closing in to gang up, or simply to prevent it to move out of range of upcoming debilitating spell.

And then, pick all the other regular situations you can still have that can still be dangerous even for level 20 characters, like...

Crowds of mid-CR creatures like Stone Golems or Cloud Giants. You have casters, they still have fuel? You can pour your coffee.
Your party has suffered a heavy blow and is short on mass spells (or just wants to consume as little as possible because big fight planned soon after)? First, as a level 20 party, you probably did something wrong to get surprised on the wrong feet like that (I mean, even if you are a martial-heavy party, hire some casters right?). XD But hey, that happens. Second, you have at least one guy that could go straight to the leader and kill it.

You are solo for whatever reason and you get ambushed? Nothing bests simply getting invis and hide/run away if fight is unfair (or if enemies are few, you could try and Quiver Palm the leader, or kite them with Sharpen the Blade, or Fly out of range if 4E, or Hide with Pass Without Trace if Shadow).

You were sent to kill/kidnap a heavily guarded enemy? As long as you know you end with him alone, you can use Ki more lightheartdely on the way knowing that worst case you'll still have 4 Ki to end it.

So... Yeah, it's situational. Yeah, that feature won't ever resolve big encounters by itself. Yeah, we'd certainly appreciate playing with it a bit sooner.
Nevertheless, it will usually represent an average of 8 Ki imx per day, not impressive, but solid.
And quite a few times (war of attrition, exploring a dungeon without having any caster with spells to set a safe place inside or outside -yeah, that's sad and kinda stupid I know XD-, being sent solo to scout/kill/) it largely spared over 20 ki and made life so easier... XD

YMMV. :)

[Contrast]

No, it's a good-but-not-great feature, which is where it's rated (by me, at least :P).
The action cost is the real drawback, although there are enemies that can see through invisibility, and they get more common at higher levels.

This. In my experience fights in 5E have typically lasted somewhere in the region of 4 rounds. Giving up your action to benefit for the remaining rounds does still work out as the buff is pretty good but it doesn't take much to swing it the other way a lot of the time.

In terms of Perfect Self, the problem is that if you're fighting a hard fight its likely not enough (and you would likely have been looking to short rest if at all possible in which case your capstone does nothing) and if you're fighting an easy fight it's good but...winning easy fights easier isn't terribly exciting as a capstone. It should also be worded as 'when you roll for initiative and have less than 4 ki points remaining, you regain ki points up to a maximum of 4' (but I'm pretty sure all DMs would just houserule it that way anyway).

[Misterwhisper]

At monk 19 I would rather ha e 1 level of fighter or rogue over monk 20.

[MaxWilson]

Empty Body lets you spend 4 ki to turn invisible for 1 minute and gives you resistance to all damage except force damage. There are no conditions given to break invisibility, so you can attack and everything. It's basically 1 minute of advantage on all your attacks and disadvantage on all attacks against you, resistance to (basically) all damage, and immunity to spells that require the caster to see the target.

As mentioned, it costs 4 ki.

Perfect Self gives you 4 ki if you start combat with no ki.

:smallconfused: HMMMMMMMMMMMM.....

I mean, it's still underwhelming as a capstone, but being able to fight all day with a guarantied 1 minute Greater Invisibility + damage resistance for every fight isn't a bad deal.

It's not terrible, and it's good enough to usually prevent me from wanting to multiclass as a monk. Consider e.g. Elemonk getting to Fireball in every fight; or you could use those ki to reroll saving throws even against endless hordes of mind flayers and intellect devourers; or a Shadow Monk getting to keep Pass Without Trace on essentially all the time even if they get interrupted by monsters.

W/rt Empty Body specifically: as others have said, invisibility at high levels is often not as good as you were expecting it to be, but it does help against stuff like beholders even though it does fairly little against dragons and most demons--Truesight/blindsight have limited range so it can still help you sneak/hide or plink with arrows.

The biggest downside to Perfect Self is that it does nothing if you have 1, 2, or 3 ki points remaining, so you have to run yourself dry before benefitting. As DM I run Perfect Self slightly differently: after 5 minutes below 4 ki, you regain enough ki to be at 4 ki. This takes silly metagame questions off the table, e.g. "what counts as a combat?" and "how does 'rolling initiative' interact with variant initiative systems like Speed Factor Initiative?"

[Greywander]

Good-but-not-great seems to sum it up pretty well. I guess this is the part where I go from "it's not so bad" to "let's see if we can fix it".


Perfect Self
When you reach 20th level, you learn how to meditate and draw on your ki without needing to rest. At the start of each of your turns, if you have less than 4 ki points remaining, you regain 1 ki point.

With this, you still start each fight with 4 ki, so that hasn't changed. It also fixes the awkwardness of starting a fight with 1, 2, or 3 ki (which wouldn't normally trigger Perfect Self). Most importantly, it provides a big boost to sustainability by allowing you to regenerate ki during combat. This means you're guarantied to be able to stun or flurry at least once per round. This also brings it in line with a few other classes, like druid and Swords bard, that get unlimited uses of one of their signature class features as a capstone.

Ki management is still important, though, as 4 ki isn't a lot to work with. Depending on subclass, you could probably blow through twice that much ki in a single round. But it does allow you to still do your monk stuff all day, albeit at a reduced capacity.

I still feel like 20th level needs something that would be useful more often, as this would still only ever come up when you're out of ki (a situation you'll want to avoid). Maybe letting you spend 3 or 4 ki to action surge?

[djreynolds]

Crazy question, AFB, but theoretically can't initiatives change round by round.

Is this the design of the creators? That you're re-rolling initiative every round?

Because it seems to me, that it would be crazy that anybody 20th level, that has survived 20 levels, would be caught-off guard and have zero Ki points. And its not like perfect self adds 4 Ki points to what you might have, you have to be depleted, at zero Ki to get this benefit.

If it just gave 4 bonus Ki points, that's something

[MaxWilson]

Crazy question, AFB, but theoretically can't initiatives change round by round.

Is this the design of the creators? That you're re-rolling initiative every round?

Depends which initiative system you're using. In vanilla PHB initiative, it's only rolled once, at the start of combat. In Speed Factor Initiative (5E DMG), it's rolled every round. I don't remember how it works in the other DMG systems, and obviously you can invent your own initiative system, e.g. one that makes moving and then attacking slower than just attacking right off, or something like Phased Real-time Combat (https://spellsandsteel.blogspot.com/2018/10/phased-real-time-combat-solution-you.html). In really old-school D&D style you might not even use initiative rolls at all, just the DM's judgment of which actions are probably quicker than which other actions.

[Foxhound438]

Crazy question, AFB, but theoretically can't initiatives change round by round.

Is this the design of the creators? That you're re-rolling initiative every round?

Because it seems to me, that it would be crazy that anybody 20th level, that has survived 20 levels, would be caught-off guard and have zero Ki points. And its not like perfect self adds 4 Ki points to what you might have, you have to be depleted, at zero Ki to get this benefit.

If it just gave 4 bonus Ki points, that's something

I think that's mentioned as an option in the DMG somewhere, but it's by no means the standard. It's a ton of bookkeeping for the DM, and a lot of time rolling dice for their x number of monsters every round if you're doing it. Standard assumed practice is once at the start of the fight.

Anyways, the actual bad part of perfect self is that it practically never procs. Most of the time, if a fight is hard enough that you spend down to less than 4 ki points, your whole team is probably wanting a short rest anyways. And if you're burning ki on easy fights banking on the perfect self to make it fine, you're bound to end up in a situation in which you've wasted you ki on a fight that you could have spend little on and now have to face the BBEG with a mere 20% of your main resource. There's a very narrow band of situations in which you'll naturally get the ki from it, so unless your DM is very keen to force it to be useful by doing an ambush after a hard fight, it just does nothing... And it's your level 20 ability, so it's going to be the ability that you have on your sheet for the shortest time.

And all of that is before the 5 minute adventuring day problem that already plagues short rest classes.

Picking up a level of rogue for 1d6 sneak attack, on the other hand, is something that you can reliably leverage in basically any combat situation, and the +6 to some skills can come up aces as well.

[stoutstien]

Empty Body lets you spend 4 ki to turn invisible for 1 minute and gives you resistance to all damage except force damage. There are no conditions given to break invisibility, so you can attack and everything. It's basically 1 minute of advantage on all your attacks and disadvantage on all attacks against you, resistance to (basically) all damage, and immunity to spells that require the caster to see the target.

As mentioned, it costs 4 ki.

Perfect Self gives you 4 ki if you start combat with no ki.

:smallconfused: HMMMMMMMMMMMM.....

I mean, it's still underwhelming as a capstone, but being able to fight all day with a guarantied 1 minute Greater Invisibility + damage resistance for every fight isn't a bad deal.

It's underwhelming period. It suffers from 2 big issues. the first being, as you point out, it's the capstone. Investing all 20 levels in a class should be provide something more powerful than recovering 20% of total ki. This roles right Into the second flaw. It only works if you have zero ki. Exactly how many fights in a day is a party planning on going through when they, and probably the rest of your party, has expended the majority of their resources. especially short rest focused classes?

The ki recovery would probably more appreciated entering tier 3 where monks start to lag to begin with. Either make it a lesser amount but automatically work like they gain 1 ki at the start of each of their turns or make it something to activate like an action to recover ki equal to their wisdom modifier once per S/L rest. This would also open up the capstone for something more in line with druids or barbarian as far as impact.

[djreynolds]

So unless you're using some "other" initiative system. Perfect self may never get used

For this to worth it, basically you're in some place where rest isn't an option, skirmish upon skirmish

I just cannot see a 20th level PC, being surprised while "sleeping" and needing this. I mean its short rest for 1 hour for 20 Ki points, or skip and get 4?

[HiveStriker]

At monk 19 I would rather ha e 1 level of fighter or rogue over monk 20.
I don't get why?
I mean...
Would have understood if you had said any Cleric (Domain feature + healing spells), Druid (utility cantrip + support spells), or even Rogue (Expertise without needing racial) or Ranger (only of course if Favored Terrain was predictable ^^, or Revised Ranger).

What does Fighter 1 really bring?
- starting proficiencies? Irrelevant, Monk has all since 14.
- Fighting Style?
* +2/4 per turn (Dueling) won't make any difference in how fast you kill a high-CR creature. Possibly nice for a Kensei since that archetype relies mainly on an actual weapon, worthless for the others. Yet again, consider that Empty Body could be used on Flurry, meaning up to 8 attacks each dealing 1d10+DEX. Or for a Kensei, on an extra 1d10 (so 4*average5 = 10, in every fight).
* +1 AC (Defense) requires an armor so unapplicable.
* dual-wielding bonus attack is so redundant with Monk features I don't even have a proper word for it. Except, again, possibly for a Kensei.
* Protection requires a shield, so unapplicable unless you want to severely nerf yourself.
* Archery is a solid benefit for when you need to get ranged, but at level 19 you should not have that much problem getting into melee reach (or at least shortbow reach).
So basically
- Proficiencies? Armors are unusable unless you want to nerf yourself, weapons same problem.

Final nail in coffin: the large majority of people around here have an experience of fights lasting an average of 4-5 rounds.

So, Fighter 1 brings absolutely nothing worth for a Monk except if you're a Kensei... Wait, not even that: with Empty Body, you're sure to have enough Ki to Sharpen the Blade to +3 on both attack rolls and damage rolls, so rarely will you feel in lack of a perma-bonus. Same with Dueling.
So... Fighter 1 is only worth if you're a non-Kensei Monk, non-4E Monk (Fly) that wants a buff on archery because it happens too often to your taste and you prefer hitting "as soon as possible". In all other cases it brings absolutely nothing (except possibly as a starting dip and until levels 8-9).


Yay.

[Misterwhisper]

I don't get why?
I mean...
Would have understood if you had said any Cleric (Domain feature + healing spells), Druid (utility cantrip + support spells), or even Rogue (Expertise without needing racial) or Ranger (only of course if Favored Terrain was predictable ^^, or Revised Ranger).

What does Fighter 1 really bring?
- starting proficiencies? Irrelevant, Monk has all since 14.
- Fighting Style?
* +2/4 per turn (Dueling) won't make any difference in how fast you kill a high-CR creature. Possibly nice for a Kensei since that archetype relies mainly on an actual weapon, worthless for the others. Yet again, consider that Empty Body could be used on Flurry, meaning up to 8 attacks each dealing 1d10+DEX. Or for a Kensei, on an extra 1d10 (so 4*average5 = 10, in every fight).
* +1 AC (Defense) requires an armor so unapplicable.
* dual-wielding bonus attack is so redundant with Monk features I don't even have a proper word for it. Except, again, possibly for a Kensei.
* Protection requires a shield, so unapplicable unless you want to severely nerf yourself.
* Archery is a solid benefit for when you need to get ranged, but at level 19 you should not have that much problem getting into melee reach (or at least shortbow reach).
So basically
- Proficiencies? Armors are unusable unless you want to nerf yourself, weapons same problem.

Final nail in coffin: the large majority of people around here have an experience of fights lasting an average of 4-5 rounds.

So, Fighter 1 brings absolutely nothing worth for a Monk except if you're a Kensei... Wait, not even that: with Empty Body, you're sure to have enough Ki to Sharpen the Blade to +3 on both attack rolls and damage rolls, so rarely will you feel in lack of a perma-bonus. Same with Dueling.
So... Fighter 1 is only worth if you're a non-Kensei Monk, non-4E Monk (Fly) that wants a buff on archery because it happens too often to your taste and you prefer hitting "as soon as possible". In all other cases it brings absolutely nothing (except possibly as a starting dip and until levels 8-9).


Yay.

4 Ki, that you could easily never even get or use.

Vs

Maybe an extra HP or 2, and a small heal.
Archery for a great bonus to your backup weapon of if someone was loopy enough to play Kensei it is a massive help, like Take the level of fighter much earlier
Dueling if you are not planning to take archery.
If you can use UA styles Mariner is great on a monk.


I will take an always useful fighting style over some extra Ki that is only useful if I did not manage correctly.

Even at high levels, fights are not that long and 19 Ki is a lot to blow through before you get a short rest.

[Kwinza]

At monk 19 I would rather ha e 1 level of fighter or rogue over monk 20.

I'd rather 1 level of warlock over all of those choices.

Cant hit a stunning strike, Hex the dude.
Need more damage, hows +6 on each hit via Hexblade Curse?

[HiveStriker]

4 Ki, that you could easily never even get or use.

Vs

Maybe an extra HP or 2, and a small heal.
Archery for a great bonus to your backup weapon of if someone was loopy enough to play Kensei it is a massive help, like Take the level of fighter much earlier
Dueling if you are not planning to take archery.
If you can use UA styles Mariner is great on a monk.


I will take an always useful fighting style over some extra Ki that is only useful if I did not manage correctly.

Even at high levels, fights are not that long and 19 Ki is a lot to blow through before you get a short rest.
So, you completely stay in denial? Because I see no counter-argument here.

First, again, only applicable FS are Archery and Dueling. Dueling is absolutely worthless for melee, whatever Monk you play, compared to extra attacks.
Archery is nice only in a very select situations, because a level 20 Monk can already move up to 120 feet with just a Dash as bonus action so except for flyers, or creatures having similar speed, or starting a fight from a very big distance (all of which certainly happen, but are not the majority of cases from everything I read around here) you don't need ranged weapons.

Second, you delay access to game changing features such as Diamond Doul, archetype (Quivering Palm / Wall of Fire) or Empty Body by a very big amount of time.

Third, "4 Ki, that you could easily never even get or use" is just wrong in 99% cases.
Recall: you get those when you roll Initiative.
Can you make a fight without rolling Initiative? Per RAW, No.
What is the minimum amount of rounds a fight usually last? 2 (1-round encounters without having had some free time before? I don't see that happening more than once or twice in a whole campaign, at least if we are speaking about encounters that count: Harder or more).
How many Ki can you consume per turn? Optimally 5 (Flurry of Blows + Stunning Strike). Minimum 1 (Flurry of Blows / Dodge / Dash).
So even included the initial action spent on Ki regain, you can immediately use a Ki on Dodge/Dash or possibly use Ki on archetype ability. Then next round, if you got in range of melee, Dueling is simply far worse than a Ki on Flurry.

If you fight powerful enemies but feel Stunning would be a waste, you can give yourself a good chance of not becoming a half-dead pal people have to save by Dodging attacks or avoiding a Dominating/Incapacitating effect.

Like I said, the only reason to pick Fighter is Archery, and only because for some reason you're extremely sensible about being competitive on ranged attacks.
Otherwise, it's just a big waste.

Rogue is just a tad better because of Expertise if you couldn't / didn't want to plan ahead and pick a Half-Elf / Human. Otherwise it's overall the same (especially since Sneak Attack needs advantage and is only 1d6, average 3).


Some extra Ki that is only useful if I did not manage correctly.

Even at high levels, fights are not that long and 19 Ki is a lot to blow through before you get a short rest.
I can understand the point of view but I completely disagree: what makes you think that you'd always get only ONE fight between short rests? Also, if you're fighting several powerful creatures and party expects you to Stun them, you'll easily blow an average 4-5 Ki per round between Stunning Attempt (including on OA possibly) and other abilities, as well as using Diamond Soul reroll.

I get the will to consume only as much resources as needed, I'm fully backing that mindset. But you don't always have a choice. :)


I'd rather 1 level of warlock over all of those choices.

Cant hit a stunning strike, Hex the dude.
Need more damage, hows +6 on each hit via Hexblade Curse?
THIS is something reasonable even (especially?) if taken early (also: Shield that can be useful, Booming Blade when you don't plan on using Ki on something that needs Attack, utility cantrips for fun and flavour. And all abilities recharge on short rest so no trouble managing resources ^^).

[Emongnome777]

What if instead of ki recovery, just drop the ki cost of everything by 1 permanently (including 1 ki point cost stuff). Too OP? Probably, but it is a level 20 capstone.

[Misterwhisper]

So, you completely stay in denial? Because I see no counter-argument here.

First, again, only applicable FS are Archery and Dueling. Dueling is absolutely worthless for melee, whatever Monk you play, compared to extra attacks.
Archery is nice only in a very select situations, because a level 20 Monk can already move up to 120 feet with just a Dash as bonus action so except for flyers, or creatures having similar speed, or starting a fight from a very big distance (all of which certainly happen, but are not the majority of cases from everything I read around here) you don't need ranged weapons.

Second, you delay access to game changing features such as Diamond Doul, archetype (Quivering Palm / Wall of Fire) or Empty Body by a very big amount of time.

Third, "4 Ki, that you could easily never even get or use" is just wrong in 99% cases.
Recall: you get those when you roll Initiative.
Can you make a fight without rolling Initiative? Per RAW, No.
What is the minimum amount of rounds a fight usually last? 2 (1-round encounters without having had some free time before? I don't see that happening more than once or twice in a whole campaign, at least if we are speaking about encounters that count: Harder or more).
How many Ki can you consume per turn? Optimally 5 (Flurry of Blows + Stunning Strike). Minimum 1 (Flurry of Blows / Dodge / Dash).
So even included the initial action spent on Ki regain, you can immediately use a Ki on Dodge/Dash or possibly use Ki on archetype ability. Then next round, if you got in range of melee, Dueling is simply far worse than a Ki on Flurry.

If you fight powerful enemies but feel Stunning would be a waste, you can give yourself a good chance of not becoming a half-dead pal people have to save by Dodging attacks or avoiding a Dominating/Incapacitating effect.

Like I said, the only reason to pick Fighter is Archery, and only because for some reason you're extremely sensible about being competitive on ranged attacks.
Otherwise, it's just a big waste.

Rogue is just a tad better because of Expertise if you couldn't / didn't want to plan ahead and pick a Half-Elf / Human. Otherwise it's overall the same (especially since Sneak Attack needs advantage and is only 1d6, average 3).


I can understand the point of view but I completely disagree: what makes you think that you'd always get only ONE fight between short rests? Also, if you're fighting several powerful creatures and party expects you to Stun them, you'll easily blow an average 4-5 Ki per round between Stunning Attempt (including on OA possibly) and other abilities, as well as using Diamond Soul reroll.

I get the will to consume only as much resources as needed, I'm fully backing that mindset. But you don't always have a choice. :)


THIS is something reasonable even (especially?) if taken early (also: Shield that can be useful, Booming Blade when you don't plan on using Ki on something that needs Attack, utility cantrips for fun and flavour. And all abilities recharge on short rest so no trouble managing resources ^^).

Dueling adds +2 damage to all attack you make with a one handed weapon, which could be multiple different weapons, for a class that can easily make 4 attacks a turn that is pretty great. You are thinking of TWF style which is useless.

1 level is not a "very big amount of time" to delay something.

Also, the only time you get those 4 Ki is if you have none at all when the fight starts, I have played a Monk multiple times, I have never once ran out of Ki past level 6 or 7.

Most of the time Ki expenditure is about 3 - 5 for an encounter, less if they are just grunts. If it is a collection of tough opponents then maybe 7 or 8.

It would take at least 3 fights for me to burn though my ki between short rests.

By far the vast majority of adventures are only ever one encounter a day anyway, much more so at higher levels where fights might take longer.

If you are burning through your Ki that fast that is a you problem not a mechanic problem.

[MaxWilson]

Dueling adds +2 damage to all attack you make with a one handed weapon, which could be multiple different weapons, for a class that can easily make 4 attacks a turn that is pretty great. You are thinking of TWF style which is useless.

But as a monk you only get to make 2 attacks per turn with a weapon, for +4 to damage from Dueling, not +8.

I'd be far more tempted to Warlock 1 or Warlock 2 for Hexblade's Curse, Booming Blade, Prestidigitation, Hex, Shield, Wrathful Smite, and Agonizing Repelling Blast or Repelling Blast + Devil's Sight, depending on how high my Cha is.


First, again, only applicable FS are Archery and Dueling. Dueling is absolutely worthless for melee, whatever Monk you play, compared to extra attacks.
Archery is nice only in a very select situations, because a level 20 Monk can already move up to 120 feet with just a Dash as bonus action so except for flyers, or creatures having similar speed, or starting a fight from a very big distance (all of which certainly happen, but are not the majority of cases from everything I read around here) you don't need ranged weapons.

There are also a lot of creatures in 5E with nasty short-ranged attacks, like Medusas (30' petrifying gaze) and Abominable Yetis (30' paralyzing gaze). You want to kill them at range if you possibly can.

[Onos]

What if instead of ki recovery, just drop the ki cost of everything by 1 permanently (including 1 ki point cost stuff). Too OP? Probably, but it is a level 20 capstone.

If the benchmark is the Druid or Paladin capstones this actually sounds pretty reasonable...and awesome! Can't think of much that fits the flavour of a true master Monk than reduced ki cost.
Although, how does this sound: at the start of each of your turns, regain 2 ki points.

[AdAstra]

Could crib from my replacement sorcerer capstone: Once per turn when you use an ability that costs 1 ki point, it’s free instead. So free Flurry of Blows/Patient Defense/Step of the Wind every turn, or one use of Stunning Strike.

[HiveStriker]

But as a monk you only get to make 2 attacks per turn with a weapon, for +4 to damage from Dueling, not +8.

I'd be far more tempted to Warlock 1 or Warlock 2 for Hexblade's Curse, Booming Blade, Prestidigitation, Hex, Shield, Wrathful Smite, and Agonizing Repelling Blast or Repelling Blast + Devil's Sight, depending on how high my Cha is.



There are also a lot of creatures in 5E with nasty short-ranged attacks, like Medusas (30' petrifying gaze) and Abominable Yetis (30' paralyzing gaze). You want to kill them at range if you possibly can.
That's a good point, but I'll bring a counter-argument: unless those abilities can be Readied and target a save Monk really is weak against, should that really be considered a threat?

If you don't need to kill is as fast as possible, then you don't really care about having a +2 in to-hit so you can simply use regular ranged attacks with short bow together with friends.
Or depending on the level you are, you could simply hit and run (those effects don't trigger on OA I suppose?): let's recall Monk quickly gets 40 feet, and usually end with at least 60 feet, *before* Dash or other features.
So provided you have some ki points, you can hit & run with 3 attacks or just combine Attack and Dash if you fear creature would close distance towards you on its turn.

And if you really need to kill it fast, wouldn't it better to just get right into melee and attempt to Stun it (I'm obviously assuming you have friends around)? Unless it has high CON save, you should spend no more than 2-3 Ki per round. With creature unable to move, everyone can maximize their attack range. :)

Besides, past level 14, you have proficiency in everything and reroll for a Ki.

I cannot see how it would be problematic to face those creatures unless you are in a Perfect Self situation (4 ki max) and alone. In which case my own course of action would simply to run away. XD

EDIT: Since I wasn't familiar with those creatures you quoted, I took the time to look for them.
I understand how Medusa can be a problem until you get enough speed and/or proficiency to have a good chance of succeeding on save, but on the plus side it only has a +3 on CON saves. And it only has 30 feet speed. Unless there are other monsters around that can mess up with party movement or party is really outnumbered by a group of Medusas, I don't see how it could really be a problem... Their Gaze is their only ability worth considering and it works only when a creature *starts* turn, not even "enter range".

Besides that it's like a regular CR 6 mook that just has slightly better melee attack, it doesn't even have bonus to saves.
I don't see any reason for anyone to attack it with anything other than ranged attack, and I don't see how Medusa could ever close range quickly/hard enough to be any trouble. Even in close spaces, just immobilize/slow it with Ensnaring Strike / Entangle / Web / Spike Growth...


Yeti's abitlity is more dangerous (because paralyzed can quickly lead to a world of hurt) and can be readied but overall suffers the same problem. Yeti is also a bit faster, but as a CR 13 creature, I assume most party members would have ways to still outspeed it or otherwise avert its abilities.

Anyways. I completely agree that there are some creatures you prefer kiting from range, but I don't see how a +2 on attacks would be vital to survive those fights, or at least worth enough to make you wait dozen of hours of real life game time (of course, YMMV ^^) to get killer features like Diamond Soul or Empty Body. Especially considering that, you know... You are NOT supposed to be able to win anything *by yourself*. Good parties will have people tailored to pick up where you drop the ball. :)

[MaxWilson]

That's a good point, but I'll bring a counter-argument: unless those abilities can be Readied and target a save Monk really is weak against, should that really be considered a threat?

The Yeti's gaze can be Readied; the Medusa can Dash. In both cases, Dashing 120' into and out of melee isn't going to save you. If you start 40' from the Medusa, then bonus action Dash 35' towards her to hit her (only twice, since you can't Flurry of Blows without a second bonus action), and then Dash back 85' to end 90' away from her... if she Dashes 60' toward you, you now start your turn within her 30' threat radius, and you might get paralyzed. In real life it's more complicated of course by the presence of other PCs whom she can threaten instead, unless they're all pummelling her with ranged attacks and you're the tank.

And yes, there's a high probability the Monk won't actually be disabled in one combat. E.g. against the Abominable Yeti a Con 14 17th+ level Monk would have a 55% chance to make his first save and 55% to pass the Diamond Soul reroll, so only a 20% chance of actually getting paralyzed, and then you've got an 80% chance of recovering from paralysis at the end of your turn, so basically only a 1 in 25 chance of dying against a lone CR 9 Abominable Yeti. But wouldn't you rather have a 0% chance of dying? I would.


If you don't need to kill is as fast as possible, then you don't really care about having a +2 in to-hit so you can simply use regular ranged attacks with short bow together with friends.

Yep. Longbows are also popular IME, with wood elf monks.


Or depending on the level you are, you could simply hit and run (those effects don't trigger on OA I suppose?): let's recall Monk quickly gets 40 feet, and usually end with at least 60 feet, *before* Dash or other features.

That's not a ton of mobility actually, not if you're trying to run in and out of melee as opposed to just getting out and staying out.


So provided you have some ki points, you can hit & run with 3 attacks or just combine Attack and Dash if you fear creature would close distance towards you on its turn.

And if you really need to kill it fast, wouldn't it better to just get right into melee and attempt to Stun it (I'm obviously assuming you have friends around)? Unless it has high CON save, you should spend no more than 2-3 Ki per round. With creature unable to move, everyone can maximize their attack range. :)

Besides, past level 14, you have proficiency in everything and reroll for a Ki.

I cannot see how it would be problematic to face those creatures unless you are in a Perfect Self situation (4 ki max) and alone. In which case my own course of action would simply to run away. XD

This part in bold is the key point of contention. Let's say for the sake of argument that you (the Monk) are in a ranged-heavy party with a squishy wizard, a Sharpshooter fighter, and a warlock, and at 20th level you're in a Hard fight against 1 Abominable Yeti, 3 Gorgons, 3 Giant Constrictor Snakes, and 3 Medusas who are menacing a group of 30 civilians. You've got 3 rounds to kill as many monsters as you can before the reach the civilians and start killing them. Is it better in this situation to be:

1.) A melee-oriented monk who can only Flurry of Blows by Dashing into melee and staying there, rolling 7 saving throws against essentially insta-death every round?
2.) A monklock who can Dash between the monsters and the civilians and start Agonizing Repelling Hex-Blasting them to slow the worst ones down (probably the Gorgons are the biggest threat) and possibly kill them, and possibly bait them into chasing you instead of the civilians, without getting killed yourself?
3.) A mostly-noncombat-oriented monk whose job is mostly done when the monsters are located, and who spends the combat plinking away with a shortbow or longbow for damage similar to a wizard's Fire Bolt?

I like pure monks, but scenario #2 is why I find monklock tempting, especially on a high-Charisma monk. Scenario #3 works fine but gets old after a while, although I think the RP is better than monklock.

[airless_wing]

In terms of fixes to make the capstone more appealing, what if the condition of "when you have no Ki points" was removed?
So anytime you roll initiative, you gain 4 Ki points, to a maximum of 20 Ki points.
That seems powerful, as it doesn't incentives the monk to leave himself at 0 Ki just to gain a few minor combat boosts.

[Foxhound438]

What if instead of ki recovery, just drop the ki cost of everything by 1 permanently (including 1 ki point cost stuff). Too OP? Probably, but it is a level 20 capstone.

not gonna lie, as like a once per day for a minute or something this would probably be okay as your capstone. Obviously there's not an objective way to weight things that aren't like values but I would say it would overall feel about as impactful as any of the pally caps. There are a bunch of other great options people have thrown out here, so I'll throw in my 2 copper, why not make the monk die 1d12 here? I get that not everything has to be damage, but it's a good incentive, that carrot on a stick, for someone to stick to a single class when building their melee DPS.

But this is kind of tangential the topic.


4 Ki, that you could easily never even get or use.

So, you completely stay in denial? Because I see no counter-argument here.

The counter argument is that you get sure fire something instead of usually nothing. Even a +2 to one hit's damage can make an enemy die one turn faster. I've lost count of how many times I've had monsters, ran by me or others, up at 1HP to crit someone's legs off.


First, again, only applicable FS are Archery and Dueling. Dueling is absolutely worthless for melee, whatever Monk you play, compared to extra attacks.

but nothing's stopping you from getting the extra attacks with F1? the only situation in which you actually get more bonus attacks than the 19/1 split is if you've already burned down to 0 and then happen to get ambushed before a short rest. Even if it happens, you spent that whole first encounter doing less damage than the 19/1, and after 4 rounds you're doing less damage again. There's any chance that, if you had the higher damage on your main attack, you would have had to spend 5 less ki in the first place (have to account for being short 1 in the bank).


Second, you delay access to game changing features such as Diamond Doul, archetype (Quivering Palm / Wall of Fire) or Empty Body by a very big amount of time.

but you aren't delaying anything if you go 19 in monk and then one in fighter. It's identical builds up until the very end, and then pure monk gets a rare proc ability that gives a token amount of ki back while the split build gets a ~10-20% damage boost to their main attacks.


Third, "4 Ki, that you could easily never even get or use" is just wrong in 99% cases.
Recall: you get those when you roll Initiative.

At 0 ki. And assuming you even have a second fight before resting.


If you fight powerful enemies but feel Stunning would be a waste, you can give yourself a good chance of not becoming a half-dead pal people have to save by Dodging attacks or avoiding a Dominating/Incapacitating effect.

My argument against this is the same as for the first one, more damage (dueling) means less need to spend the resource in the first fight, means you more often already have ki in the second.


Rogue is just a tad better because of Expertise if you couldn't / didn't want to plan ahead and pick a Half-Elf / Human. Otherwise it's overall the same (especially since Sneak Attack needs advantage and is only 1d6, average 3).

Very easy to get advantage on a monk past level 18, even not starting a fight with 4 ki instead of 0, and sneak attack only requires an adjacent ally. Being only 3.5 damage is on its face a little worse damage, but having 2 chances to land it gives it more average value when you account for accuracy, plus the chance to crit does make it a pinch better too.


I can understand the point of view but I completely disagree: what makes you think that you'd always get only ONE fight between short long rests?

It's just the way it is in most of the games I've ever been a player in. Combat is great and all, but it really is best in moderation. Too much and a game starts to bog down, and become more exhausting than actually fun. In my experience, it's one or two combats in a session (most often one), and otherwise social situations and travel. And of course, travel means rests, unless you're on the variant gritty resting option that everyone I know seems to praise in concept but never use.

[HiveStriker]

This part in bold is the key point of contention. Let's say for the sake of argument that you (the Monk) are in a ranged-heavy party with a squishy wizard, a Sharpshooter fighter, and a warlock, and at 20th level you're in a Hard fight against 1 Abominable Yeti, 3 Gorgons, 3 Giant Constrictor Snakes, and 3 Medusas who are menacing a group of 30 civilians. You've got 3 rounds to kill as many monsters as you can before the reach the civilians and start killing them. Is it better in this situation to be:

1.) A melee-oriented monk who can only Flurry of Blows by Dashing into melee and staying there, rolling 7 saving throws against essentially insta-death every round?
2.) A monklock who can Dash between the monsters and the civilians and start Agonizing Repelling Hex-Blasting them to slow the worst ones down (probably the Gorgons are the biggest threat) and possibly kill them, and possibly bait them into chasing you instead of the civilians, without getting killed yourself?
3.) A mostly-noncombat-oriented monk whose job is mostly done when the monsters are located, and who spends the combat plinking away with a shortbow or longbow for damage similar to a wizard's Fire Bolt?

I like pure monks, but scenario #2 is why I find monklock tempting, especially on a high-Charisma monk. Scenario #3 works fine but gets old after a while, although I think the RP is better than monklock.
Cool, an actual context. :)
We finally can exchange opinions on a somewhat solid ground. XD

Well, you'll have no argue with me that Repelling + Grasp|Lethargy Blast is awesome (sorry, it I have only 2 invoctions, Agonizing is crap), but that means 2 levels already of dip. But that's besides the point.

In that situation...
I'd simply expect a Wizard to have any spell that blocks or heavily diminishes enemy movement or action (Wall spell, Sleet Storm, Hypnotic Pattern, Hallucinatory Terrain, Reverse Gravity), in which case I'd help by either pushing enemies to herd them, or simply aggro them while Dodging.
Or maybe he'd have a Wish, in which case I'd carry him to the place villagers are while telling them to ready to move, then have him Wish a Teleportation Circle so villagers are instantly put to safety, leaving us any freedom to also flee, or kite, or face head-on or whatever. If not Wish, maybe Mass Polymorph is on the table? Make as many villagers as possible Large beasts that can carry others, you can probably manage to get 20 of them out of there. Have the most resilient/fast run away by themselves while I try and divert monsters as much as possible.

If really Wizard is low on spells, I'd ask him to Polymorph me into a Huge beast with as much speed as possible (prerefably aerial) so Quetza if allowed by DM, Giant Elk otherwise, then we'd tell villagers to all hop on / grasp me and I'd Dash them to a safe distance like 300 feet while everyone else is preparing for a fight.

If really, really party is low on resources, I'd expect Wizard to still have at least a Haste/Fly/Enlarge on store, to buff me while I'd devise best strategy depending on other members and my archetype.

Best case? He has Haste, I'm my favorite Monk build (4e, Half-Elf or Human, Prodigy, Mobile, possibly Grappler depending on several things): with 70 feet (Human + Monk speed + 10) before Haste, my speed is 140 feet with just one Dash as bonus action.
With Haste it becomes a respectable 140 feet stat, or 210 with Dash from Haste, or 280 with Dash + Dash as bonus action.
With Fly beforehand, since strangely enough Mobile and Unarmored movement bonus can apply to Fly speed, although it does costs me an action, I now have base speed of (30+10+60)*2 = 200 feet.
Yeti, Gorgon and Medusa are all Grappleable. So I first charge Yetis, Grapple one or two of them with my Attack, then rush upwards as much as possible, using Dash as bonus action or Haste action depending on how much I had to cover to close in first... Then simply drop them to their death.
With 1d6 extra damage per 10 feet, it can very quickly add up. Even with speed halved because of grappling.
100 feet stat "per move" while Grappling means that, with just the free Haste Dash or single Ki Dash as bonus action, I can inflict 10d6 blunt damage. Stack both? 20d6.
Yeti has average ~55 points. 20d6 average = 3.5*10*2 = 70.
Congrats, that initial turn allowed me to instakill a yeti *solo* (you know what I mean).
I have one turn left? What's best that giving the other Yeti the same rollercoaster experience?
Furthermore, if DM allows it (no clue about RAW), I could drop one Yeti on the other, maybe latter having a Dex save. Chance to kill both at once.

In fact, provided Sharpshooter synchronizes one way or another to shoot when creatures are standing up, we could probably kill one creature per turn minimum except Gorgon.
First Yetis (myself), then Medusas, then Snakes, then Gorgon.

Close to worst case? Wizard has absolutely no spell that can help me (I'd daresay he's a frigging bad Wizard but that's irrelevant XD). BUT I still have all ki.
- I'm a 4E: I definitely can't emprison creatures. So depending on what seems the best to me, I'll either cast a Wall of Fire as a deterrent to inflict mass damage (recall: remanent damage requires no save) or hopefully force creatures to make a detour.
But, more probably, I'll use first round to try and aggro enemies while villagers start to flee, while preserving my own self, then use Wall of Stone one or two times to break line of sight for fear/spells effects while providing a bit more time to villagers to flee.

- I'm a Shadow: while villagers start to flee, I stall for at least one round, or maybe two. Then I cast Darkness on a stone, that I pick up just after I checked one last time where villagers group is, and I catch up with them. We run blindly, sure, but we are covered.
If DM aggrees that one villager can manage carrying the stone, all the better.

- I'm an Open Hand: I Dash as bonus action, activate first phase of Quivering Palm. Next round as an action I activate it. On a Yeti, I'm sure to kill it even on a successful save. I may actually try it on Gorgon directly though.
Rinse and repeat.

In those hypotheses, rest of party focus fires on one creature at a time, probably in same order as before.

Worst of the worst case? I only have Perfect Self.
4E? I can still Fly myself: instead of trying to kill all, I just try to Grapple, raise a few dozen feet and drop one enemy onto the other if allowed. Otherwise simply Shoving and moving (Dashing) away.
Shadow: basically same tactic as earlier.
Open Hand: Same as 4E except I may risk Flurry for extra Shoving, or maybe try and pummel one Yeti with kiting.
Long Death: even better than 4e (and anyone all really) in that kind of situation: Fear as action, move back to optimize the "block movement lines", Dodge as bonus action.

TL;DR
Overall, you simply cannot prevent villagers to get hurt all by yourself. This kind of situation is completely the job of casters, especially Wizard. If he's stupid enough to not have anything viable to control enemies, it's a miracle he survived up to here anyways.
With that said, in such a case, 4E Monk is by far the best archetype as long as you manage to get Haste.
If Monk must be considered solo, then best on low resource is Long Death -> Shadow & 4E -> Open Hand -> the others.
Best on full Ki is 4E|Open Hand -> Shadow|Long Death -> others.
Also, while I did try my best to answer the given objective, "You've got 3 rounds to kill as many monsters as you can before the reach the civilians and start killing them" with no knowledge on anyone (including Warlock, who may change many things) it's actually a crappy objective: your goal is ultimately to protect civilians. Having only "killing enemies as fast as possible" in mind is not always the best way to do that. :)

[Hesher]

My monk has recently reached level 20 in our main campaign and we discussed a few options. Here's what I came up with:


Martial Arts die: 1d12.
Unarmored Movement Improvement: you can stand on liquid surfaces without falling.
Body Relocation (replaces Perfect Self): whenever you spend ki points on your turn, you gain the ability to teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space that you can see as part of your movement for that turn.


You get improvements to two existing features and a whole new level 20 feature.

[MaxWilson]

Cool, an actual context. :)
We finally can exchange opinions on a somewhat solid ground. XD

Well, you'll have no argue with me that Repelling + Grasp|Lethargy Blast is awesome (sorry, it I have only 2 invoctions, Agonizing is crap), but that means 2 levels already of dip. But that's besides the point.

In that situation...
I'd simply expect a Wizard to have any spell that blocks or heavily diminishes enemy movement or action (Wall spell, Sleet Storm, Hypnotic Pattern, Hallucinatory Terrain, Reverse Gravity), in which case I'd help by either pushing enemies to herd them, or simply aggro them while Dodging.
Or maybe he'd have a Wish, in which case I'd carry him to the place villagers are while telling them to ready to move, then have him Wish a Teleportation Circle so villagers are instantly put to safety, leaving us any freedom to also flee, or kite, or face head-on or whatever. If not Wish, maybe Mass Polymorph is on the table? Make as many villagers as possible Large beasts that can carry others, you can probably manage to get 20 of them out of there. Have the most resilient/fast run away by themselves while I try and divert monsters as much as possible.

If really Wizard is low on spells, I'd ask him to Polymorph me into a Huge beast with as much speed as possible (prerefably aerial) so Quetza if allowed by DM, Giant Elk otherwise, then we'd tell villagers to all hop on / grasp me and I'd Dash them to a safe distance like 300 feet while everyone else is preparing for a fight.

If really, really party is low on resources, I'd expect Wizard to still have at least a Haste/Fly/Enlarge on store, to buff me while I'd devise best strategy depending on other members and my archetype.*snip*

At this point you've made my case for me. The warlock dip is tempting because it frees you from depending on the wizard's concentration to be safe and effective in this fight (and he might have better things to do with his concentration anyway, like upcast Banishment or Wall of Force). Even if you do get a Fly spell or something, you're still risking running into readied actions from the Abominable Yeti (not grappleable, BTW, and most of the other monsters are probably too heavy for you to carry anyway) or the Gorgons and getting paralyzed, or from the Giant Constrictor Snakes and getting restrained (Mobile feat won't protect you from Readied attacks, only opportunity attacks), but you said yourself that this encounter is mostly up to the spellcasters so why would they waste their concentration giving you Fly? Even if everything works perfectly and you grapple one of the small monsters like the Medusa that you can actually grapple + drop, you're just doing 10d6 per Dash action to her, which means you're risking death (up to 7 saves vs. death-or-equivalent per round!) in order to do something which is not going to save those villagers in time anyway.

And that's why a warlock dip would tempt me, on a monk with good Charisma: because there's lots of nasty creatures that you don't want to get into melee range of. If you're going to try to divert some of the creatures from the villagers, you might as well divert them with something that is both painful to the monster and effective from long range: start hammering the Yeti + Medusas with Hex + Agonizing Repelling Eldritch Blast from just out of their range (end your turn 95' from the Medusas and at least 75' away from the Yeti and hope they Dash towards you, wasting a turn) while the spellcasters deal with the other monsters.

There are other nice side benefits to a Warlock dip too including either free temp HP on kill or 2/short rest Shield spell or free telepathy, depending which warlock class you go for. (Yes, I know WotC nerfed the telepathy in later PHB printings, unfortunately.)

But there are RP issues with a warlock dip, and the monk I'm thinking of has remained pure Shadow Monk thus far and maybe will forever.

[darknite]

It's okay. Since Ki refreshes on a short rest that would be my preferred regeneration process. If my monk is in a major battle and has to depend on Perfect Self, how that Ki is spent would be very situational.