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The Glyphstone
2007-10-17, 07:03 PM
The Witch Doctor[/b]
“Do ya really want to be messin’ with me, mon?” – Ikatani, witch doctor

The principle of sympathy magic is a well-known and proven philosophy amongst spellcasters, and one often invoked through the use of material components in certain spells. The witch doctor takes this concept several steps further, creating ritualized effigies that mimic the appearance of specific persons or creatures, and then manipulating those persons for good or ill by use of the dolls he makes.

Adventures: A witch doctor goes traveling for the same reasons that many others do – quests for fame, power, wealth, or any other number of reasons. The specialized nature of their magic tends to cause witch doctors to connect with groups of like-minded individuals, who can both benefit from his powerful beneficial spells and fill roles that he is incapable of performing.

Characteristics: Witch doctors are the unparalleled masters of affecting the states and status of their friends and enemies. At the drop of a hat, they can make an ally stronger, faster, or wiser, or inflict crippling weaknesses and ailments upon their enemies. The mystic voodoo dolls they can create improve this talent further, allowing them to affect their victims from afar and with greater potency.

Alignment: Witch doctors can adhere to any sort of alignment or philosophy, and they end up coming from all ends of the spectrum. Good witch doctors see their powers as a means of improving the lives and welfare of other people, while evil witch doctors delight in their ability to torment, torture, and harm other people without the need to get up close and personal where they might be in personal danger.

Religion: Witch doctors commonly come from savage or tribal cultures, who often have their own sets of beliefs and chosen deities. This does not stop “civilized” witch doctors from adopting other gods, though, and they typically gravitate towards religions that echo their own outlook on life and other beings.

Races: Humans and savage humanoids most often produce witch doctors, since they are the most likely to form the tribal-type communities where a witch doctor is likely to be prominent. Cultures with a strong martial tradition can occasionally develop witch doctors, where their ability to improve the fighting capabilities of their fellow warriors is greatly welcomed.

Other Classes: Due to a witch doctor’s many and varied enhancing spells, almost any class can quickly appreciate the benefits he brings with him, and will greatly value the contribution. Front-line fighters and rogues are usually most enthusiastic to have a witch doctor along, and more traditional spellcasters enjoy the opportunity to let up on needing to think about aiding their party members indirectly and focus their spell choices towards other applications. In turn, any witch doctor is very keenly aware of his limitations and limited versatility, enjoying the protection and support of comrades with more directly applicable combat skills.

Role: A witch doctor is very simple and direct in his utility – buff the various members of the party, and then sit back as they go to town on whatever unsuspecting enemy lies ahead. Witch doctors are not specifically geared for melee combat, as they lack the ability to wear anything thicker than light armor, but their vast assortment of enhancement spells can make them a capable support combatant indeed alongside or behind a more dedicated warrior-type. At higher levels, he gains the ability to extend his short-range debuff spells to hit without getting into melee range himself, which exponentially boosts his effectiveness. Like the warmage, beguiler, and dread necromancer, a witch doctor is best in a party that boasts another arcanist who can cover the witch doctor's gaps in utility and damaging spells.

Witch Doctor[/b

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th| 9th

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Craft Voodoo, Armored Mage|5|3|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3||6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+3||6|5|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Advanced Learning|6|6|3|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

5th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Improved Voodoo|6|6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

6th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+5||6|6|5|3|—|—|—|—|—|—

7th|
+5|
+2|
+2|
+5|Rapid Voodoo, Voodoo Reach|6|6|6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—

8th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+2|
+6|Advanced Learning|6|6|6|5|3|—|—|—|—|—

9th|
+6/+1|
+3|
+3|
+6|Spiritual Voodoo|6|6|6|6|4|—|—|—|—|—

10th|
+7+2|
+3|
+3|
+7|Enhanced Voodoo|6|6|6|6|5|3|—|—|—|—

11th|
+8/+3|
+3|
+3|
+7|Instinctive Voodoo|6|6|6|6|6|4|—|—|—|—

12th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+4|
+8|Advanced Learning|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|—|—|—

13th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+4|
+8||6|6|6|6|6|6|4|—|—|—

14th|
+10/+5|
+4|
+4|
+9|Impromptu Voodoo|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|—|—

15th|
+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+5|
+9|Powerful Voodoo|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|—|—

16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+10|Advanced Learning|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|—

17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+10||6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|—

18th|
+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+6|
+11||6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3

19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11|Animate Voodoo|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+6|
+12|Mighty Voodoo, Voodoo Fatebond|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6
[/table]

GAME RULES

[b]Abilities: A high Charisma score gives a witch doctor even more available uses of his spells, makes his offensive spells more powerful, and aids the various skills at his disposal that help in obtaining materials for his voodoo dolls. Like any character, a witch doctor benefits from a good Constitution score, and a decent Strength and/or Dexterity score can improve a witch doctor’s functionality in combat once his beneficial spells are up and running.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d6

Class Skills:
Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Craft (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge(Arcana) (Int), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) × 4.

Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Class Features:
All of the following are class features of the witch doctor:
Weapons and Armor Proficiency: Witch doctors are proficient with all simple weapons and with light armor.

Spells: A witch doctor casts arcane spells (The same type of spells available to sorcerers and wizards, which are drawn from the witch doctor spell list below. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time the way a cleric or wizard must. When a witch doctor gains access to a new level of spells, he automatically knows all the spells of that level listed on the witch doctor’s spell list. Essentially, his spell list is the same as his spells known list. Witch doctors also have the option of adding to their existing spell list through their advanced learning ability as they advance in level.

To cast a spell, a witch doctor must have a Charisma score of 10+ the spell’s level (Cha 10 for 0-level spells, Cha 11 for 1st level spells, and so forth). The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a witch doctor’s spell is 10 + the spell’s level + the witch doctor’s Charisma modifier. Like other spellcasters, a witch doctor can only cast a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given in the table.

Craft Voodoo: The signature talent of a witch doctor is his ability to craft voodoos, small effigy dolls in the shape and vague appearance of specific individuals. Creating a voodoo doll requires 1 hour of uninterrupted work, 10GP worth of materials per Hit Die of the subject, including a small portion of the person after whom the doll in modeled (a tuft of hair, bit of skin or scales, fingernail/toenail, a few drops of fresh blood, etc.), and a Craft check with a DC of 10+the subject’s Hit Dice. This special component is no longer required after the witch doctor reaches 9th level (see Spiritual Voodoo, below). Once complete, a mystical link forms between the voodoo doll and the individual it represents, allowing spells cast by the witch doctor on the doll to affect that individual despite intervening distance or obstacles. A voodoo doll is a non-magical, Diminutive object with 0 hardness and 1 hit point per Hit Die of the subject creature. Multiple voodoo dolls created by the same witch doctor towards the same subject have no additional effect, and a witch doctor cannot use voodoo dolls created by any other witch doctor. If a creature represented by a voodoo doll later gains permanent Hit Dice after the doll is created, additional materials must be incorporated into the doll to make up for the difference.

Whenever the witch doctor casts a spell that designates a target, he may choose to use a voodoo doll in his possession as a focus for the spell in addition to any other foci or material components required. If the individual linked to the doll is within 10 feet per witch doctor class level of the witch doctor, the spell’s effects are applied to that individual even if they would normally be out of range, out of line of sight, or out of line of effect of the spell. Similarly, if the witch doctor would make a touch attack as part of an ongoing spell, he may touch a doll in his possession instead, and the effects are applied to the doll’s subject.

A voodoo doll becomes nonfunctional if its linked individual is currently within the boundaries of an antimagic field. If a bonded individual is slain, any voodoo dolls currently linked to them become useless forever – even if they are later returned to life, a new doll must be created.)

Armored Mage: A great deal of any witch doctor's spells are extremely similar in their movements and gestures, with only minor variations to change the exact effect delivered upon the being who is touched. This relative simplicity allows a witch doctor to exercise his body to the point where he can make those gestures despite the emcumberance of armor. A witch doctor's spells do not suffer from arcane spell failure as long as he is wearing only light armor.

Advanced Learning: At 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th levels, a witch doctor can add a new spell to his spell list, representing the results of personal study and experimentation. The spell must meet all of the following criteria:
- Must be drawn from the wizard, cleric, or druid spell list.
- Must be of the Abjuration, Conjuration, Transmutation, or Necromancy school.
- Must have a range of touch, personal, or short.

Once a spell is selected, it is forever added to that witch doctor’s spell list and can be cast just like any other spell on the warmage’s list.

Improved Voodoo: Beginning at 5th level, whenever a witch doctor casts a spell on an individual by use of that person’s bonded voodoo doll, the spell receives a +1 bonus to its save DC (if any) and a +1 bonus on all caster level-related variables and checks.

Rapid Voodoo: Beginning at 7th level, a witch doctor can create a voodoo doll with only 1 minute of uninterrupted work, instead of 1 hour. All other requirements remain unchanged, including the necessary supplies.

Voodoo Reach: At 7th level, a witch doctor gains an intuitive understanding of the magic that links his voodoo dolls and their subjects, and learns to apply it to all spells he casts. The witch doctor gains the feat Reach Spell as a bonus feat.

Spiritual Voodoo: Beginning at 9th level, a witch doctor can create voodoo dolls that bond to their intended subjects without the need for a physical connection, linking through the spirit alone. This eliminates the need for the witch doctor to include a piece of the subject when creating their voodoo doll, though all other requirements remain unchanged.

Enhanced Voodoo: Beginning at 10th level, whenever a witch doctor casts a spell on an individual by use of that person’s bonded voodoo doll, the spell receives a +2 bonus to its save DC (if any) and a +2 bonus on all caster level-related variables and checks. This bonus does not stack with the bonuses granted by Improved Voodoo.

Instinctive Voodoo: Beginning at 11th level, a witch doctor can utilize any voodoo doll carried on his person in his spells without the need to physically hold them, allowing him to cast multiple-target spells on such dolls more easily. From this point on, a spell cast by a witch doctor automatically includes any voodoo doll (and thus its subject) as a focus if desired by the witch doctor.

Impromptu Voodoo: Beginning at 14th level, a witch doctor can create a voodoo doll incredibly fast, even in the heat of combat if necessary. It now requires only a full-round action to craft a Voodoo doll that provokes attacks of opportunity. All other requirements remain unchanged.

Powerful Voodoo: Beginning at 15th level, whenever a witch doctor casts a spell on an individual by use of that person’s bonded voodoo doll, the spell receives a +3 bonus to its save DC (if any) and a +3 bonus on all caster level-related variables and checks. This bonus does not stack with the bonuses granted by Improved Voodoo or Enhanced Voodoo.

Animate Voodoo: Upon reaching 19th level, a witch doctor can call upon the magical forces imbuing his voodoo dolls and bring them to life in his defense. When animated, a doll transforms into a construct of the same size as the subject with the hit points, base attack bonus, base saving throws, Strength score, and Dexterity score of its subject. It has no Constitution or Intelligence score, a Wisdom score of 10, and a Charisma score of 1. The doll gains two slam attacks, each dealing damage equal to 1d6+ the doll’s Strength modifier (for a Medium doll). Despite its physical appearance, the doll remains a construct, gaining construct traits but none of its subject’s special attacks, special qualities, class features, skills, or feats. Any equipment or items modeled on the doll grow along with it, but are ornamental only and give no benefit, bonuses, or usage. The animated doll is mindless and cannot speak, but it obeys the witch doctor, or its subject individual, or both, chosen by the witch doctor when it is animated. A doll remains animated for 1 round per witch doctor class level, after which it shrinks back to its original size and appearance. A specific doll can only be animated once per day, and the witch doctor may not use this ability more than three times per day in total.

Powerful Voodoo: At 20th level, a witch doctor has reached the pinnacle of his craft. Whenever he casts a spell on an individual by use of that person’s bonded voodoo doll, the spell receives a +4 bonus to its save DC (if any) and a +4 bonus on all caster level-related variables and checks. This bonus does not stack with the bonuses granted by Improved Voodoo, Enhanced Voodoo, or Powerful Voodoo.

Voodoo Fatebond: A 20th level witch doctor’s voodoo dolls are so lifelike and convincing that their destruction can actually kill the subject. As a standard action, a witch doctor can permanently destroy any voodoo doll in his possession. If that voodoo doll’s subject has line of sight to the witch doctor, they must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC14+1/2 witch doctor’s Hit Dice + witch doctor’s Charisma modifier) or be slain instantly. Even if the save succeeds, the subject is shaken for 1d6 rounds, but it becomes immune to Voodoo Fatebond for 24 hours. This is considered a death effect.



The Witch Doctor’s Spell List

0th – Guidance, Resistance, Touch of Fatigue, Virtue

1st – Conviction*, Cause Fear, Doom, Endure Elements, Enlarge Person, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Ironguts*, Jump, Mage Armor, Nerveskitter*, Protection from Good/Evil/Law/Chaos, Reduce Person, Sanctuary, Wings of the Sea*

2nd – Aid, Animalistic Power*, Bear’s Endurance, Blindness/Deafness, Bull’s Strength, Cat’s Grace, Curse of Ill Fortune* Curse of Impending Blades*, Eagle’s Splendor, Fox’s Cunning, Ghoul Touch, Insight of Good Fortune*, Living Undeath*, Owl’s Wisdom, Protection From Arrows, Resist Energy, Spider Climb, Wings of Air*

3rd – Air Breathing*, Amorphous Form*, Bestow Curse, Blindsight*, Contagion, Displacement, Earthen Grace*, Fear, Fly, Gaseous Form, Girallon’s Blessing*, Greater Mage Armor*, Hamatula Barbs*, Hold Person*, Nondetection, Protection From Energy, Reverse Arrows*, Safety*, Shadow Phase*, Spiderskin*, Tremorsense*, Unluck*, Water Breathing, Water Walk

4th – Air Walk, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, Greater Blindsight*, Great Invisibility Greater Resistance*, Life Ward*, Poison, Polymorph, Rusting Grasp, Sheltered Vitality*, Spell Immunity, Stoneskin,

5th – Baleful Polymorph, Divine Grace*, Dominate Person, Draconic Polymorph*, Greater Enlarge Person*, Hold Monster, Indomitability*, Lesser Ironguard*, Life’s Grace*, Mantle of the Icy Soul*, Mass Fly*, Slay Living, Spell Resistance, Xorn Movement*

6th – Energy Immunity, Fires of Purity, Mass Bear’s Endurance, Mass Bull’s Strength, Mass Cat’s Grace, Mass Contagion, Mass Fox’ Cunning, Mass Eagle’s Splendor, Spectral Touch, Superior Resistance, Tortoise Shell

7th – Greater Bestow Curse, Ironguard, Mass Invisibility, Mass Hold Person, Mass Spell Resistance, Statue, Withering Palm

8th – Greater Spell Immunity, Mass Death Ward, Mind Blank, Otto’s Irresistable Dance, Polymorph Any Object, Protection From Spells, Superior Invisibility, Temporal Stasis, Trap The Soul

9th – Imprisonment, Dominate Monster, Mass Hold Monster, Soul Bind, Shapechange

*Taken from Spell Compendium








Designer’s Notes:

Originally, this was going to be a Transmuter to the Beguiler’s Illusionist and the Warmage’s Evoker, it sort of took on a life of its own. Now the buffmonkey class from h**l, I’m actually hoping it’s good enough for someone to want to play. The spell list appears ridiculously large at first glance, but it’s actually quite limited – there are no utility spells and very few damage spells, only buffs and save-or-lose/save-or-suck with mostly short ranges. The bard’s primary problem was that it suffered from a lack of direction application beyond making the other party members better – I’m worried that the Witch Doctor might have Bard Syndrome to a much greater degree, since he doesn’t even have the built-in melee support abilities of a bard, but is dependent on his own self-buffs before engaging anything. The Voodoo ability chain I thought was neat, though it doesn’t really come into its full utility until 9th level, when the need for a “sample piece” goes away, and 14th level, when a voodoo doll can be whipped together in a single turn – its primary usage until then is more effective on-the-fly buffing of teammates without the need to get close and in danger.

The Witch

smart thog
2007-10-18, 05:35 PM
Ummm, hit dice and skills are needed, other than that, good class. You know, I have seen some other witch doctor classes, but only yours really takes the voodoo.

The Glyphstone
2007-10-19, 12:27 PM
I listed those in the Game Rules spoiler - it gets a d8 hit die, and 4+Int skill points.

The Glyphstone
2007-10-20, 07:00 AM
No other comments? The Warmage is a failure because it just blows stuff up, the Beguiler's liked more because it has save-lose and save-sucks, so wouldn't a class that's all about buffs and save-lose/suck be even better?:smallbiggrin:

Kaelaroth
2007-10-20, 11:53 AM
Hey!

I actually love the Warmage and hate the Begiler, but it's your class we're discussing here. I quite like it, though I would be put off by the amount of money is needed to create a voodoo doll... at low levels that is quite hard to muster. Next, can you introduce something similar ot the wramge's armoured mage? They lack much defensive power, and considering they don't have quite the awesome blsaty might of a sorcerer or wizard they might need one... even if only for light armour.

Other than that: I like it! :smallsmile:

Mr.Moron
2007-10-20, 12:17 PM
Just on a flavor level, given how I've generally seen witch doctors and "Vodoo" in general used it might be nice to see cause fear on his spell list. Other simliar spells where applicable too, so long as it's balanced.

It really doesn't have anything to do with functionality, just I've always seen voodoo-guys having some level of super natural scariness about them. Bones, and Dire Warnings and such.

VeisuItaTyhjyys
2007-10-20, 12:56 PM
I love the glass. Good work, Gylphstone. I'd love to find a campaign to try it out in.

The Glyphstone
2007-10-20, 02:10 PM
Adding some fear-causing spells wouldn't go amiss, and would help add to combat functionality - though I think it was a good idea that I took Enervation and Energy Drain off.:smallsmile:

I actually did have Armored Mage as a class feature, but I took it off before the final draft...it just seemed odd to picture a voodoo doctor clanking around in armor - but then, the cleric also clanks around in heavier armor, and that's a priest too. Giving Light Armor Casting would be a vry good idea, though I dont want to have an upgrade to Medium like the warmage does.

Would it be better to tie the cost of a doll to the Hit Dice of its subject?

VeisuItaTyhjyys
2007-10-20, 06:17 PM
Did you remove enervate/energy drain for balance, then? I think they fit quite well with the concept.

The hit dice idea would make voodoo more usable.

The Glyphstone
2007-10-20, 07:38 PM
Yeah - I looked at that and realized that effectively unlimited Enervations per day would make an unholy mess of anything they encountered that wasn't immune to level drain.

How's 10GPxHD sound?

Corncracker
2007-10-20, 07:49 PM
"I told the Witchdoctor I was in love with you
I told the Witchdoctor I was in love with you
And then the Witchdoctor he told me what to do"

But seriously, I quitle like this class.

Though it seems a d6 HD would be more appropriate than a D8.

The Glyphstone
2007-10-20, 07:53 PM
That was something else I had toyed with, though I upped the HD to a d8 when I took away Armored Mage...swap 'em back, you think?

Corncracker
2007-10-20, 08:12 PM
Possibly.

Though I'd almost say its best to do d6 HP, and leave the rest alone. I mean he is a full Caster, more Skill Points then a Wizard, and D6 he has more HP than a Wizard, and all those nifty Vodoo Abilities.

The Glyphstone
2007-10-20, 08:15 PM
Well, there's also the consideration that his offensive spell list is rather limited until high levels - if he's going to be more than a magical cheerleader, he might need Armored Mage to survive close up.

Corncracker
2007-10-20, 08:32 PM
Well, there's also the consideration that his offensive spell list is rather limited until high levels - if he's going to be more than a magical cheerleader, he might need Armored Mage to survive close up.

True, I didn't really look over to much of those spells. Go for Armored Mage, and a d6 HD.

Warlord JK
2007-10-21, 12:22 AM
Pretty nice class here. You might want to lower hit die to d6, but give him something so he can cast without arcane spell failure in light armor and possibly proficiency with simple weapons.

CasESenSITItiVE
2007-10-21, 11:30 AM
i dunno, between the d8 hit dice, the 3/4 BAB, the buffs and saves-or-dies, the auto learning spells, the spontaniously spellcasting, and with that many spells per day, he just seems a little overpowered to me...

The Glyphstone
2007-10-27, 05:53 AM
Possibly, but compare it to the Beguiler and Warmage, its closest cousins. They also get 3/4 BAB at least, and with the Hit Die of the Witch Doctor being downgraded to a D6, their HD is now better.

The Warmage is an insane damage-dealing machine; not the most efficient use of an arcane caster, but still effective to a large degree. He also has very impressive range for most of his spells. The Beguiler also gets save-or-dies, which though they're shorter ranged, the class is a lot stealthier, so it can get closer easier and make its spells harder to resist. The spontaneous casting and sorcerer casting slots are balanced by their limited spell list..the Beguiler has very little noncombat utility or direct damage attacks; the Warmage has nothing but direct damage attacks and maybe a save-or-die or two.

Comparatively, the Witch Doctor. He has oodles of buffs and Save-or-Dies, true, but nearly all of them are Touch range, or Short range at best. That means he, in his squishy D6 HD and light armor, needs to be in melee range of Mr. Big Meanie to deliver his attack. If they pass the save, he's probably toast next round, or at least hurting. He gets Reach Spell at 7th level, but that still has a maximum range of 30ft. - a single move for most enemies of Medium or larger. Voodoo helps with this, letting him strike from hiding or further away, but it's not until 14th level that he can put together a doll quick enough to really affect a battle; so until then, his offensive contribution is extremely stunted and/or risky.


I've gone back and changed the HD to a D6, and given Light Armor Casting (called it Armored Mage out of laziness), along with Simple Weapon proficiency. Anyone have some thoughts now?

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-04-28, 01:11 PM
Instinctive Voodoo: Beginning at 11th level, a witch doctor can utilize any voodoo doll carried on his person in his spells without the need to physically hold them, allowing him to cast multiple-target spells on such dolls more easily. From this point on, a spell cast by a witch doctor automatically includes any voodoo doll (and thus its subject) as a focus if desired by the witch doctor.Please specify "a spell cast by a witch doctor automatically includes any single voodoo doll...", otherwise you end up with being able to cast a single spell on the whole party at once because you include every voodoo doll on your person as a focus.

Enervation needs to stay off the spell list, it can get too broken too quickly. This class is powerful enough as it is.

I think d6 and Armored Mage work well for this class. They're not supposed to be front-line fighters, after all. He gets Reach Spell for free, which is HUGE, and lets him combo that with Chain Spell for group buffing quickly, and prevents him from needing to be in melee with anything.

Faulty
2009-04-28, 03:00 PM
I like it. Would you happen to have any drafts from before it became a Witch Doctor and was still a Transmuter, mainly?

JoshuaZ
2009-04-28, 06:14 PM
A witch doctor who can't make zombies? That's no good. But the spell list is already very long. Maybe allow them the ability to duplicate animate dead as a spell-like ability but can only created zombies and the process takes 1 hour? Maybe at 7th or 8th level?

The Glyphstone
2009-04-28, 09:44 PM
A witch doctor who can't make zombies? That's no good. But the spell list is already very long. Maybe allow them the ability to duplicate animate dead as a spell-like ability but can only created zombies and the process takes 1 hour? Maybe at 7th or 8th level?


He can make zombies if you want him to. Animate Dead is a 3rd level Cleric spell, and the Witch Doctor gets an Advanced Learning spell at 8th level, so you can spend your free spell to get that. :)

Actually, that made something occur to me, since Animate Dead is also a Wizard spell for 4th level, and there are other spells that occur on both lists - using AdvLearn to get a new spell will treat it as the lowest level that it can be drawn as.



I like it. Would you happen to have any drafts from before it became a Witch Doctor and was still a Transmuter, mainly?

Unfortunately, he's always been a Witch Doctor as far as I remember him, flavorwise - the design path of his role was mainly the gradual shift from a purely Transmutation-focused spell list to a primarily Transmutation list with a sprinkling of Abjurations and Necromancies. To be honest, I don't know why I'm allowing Advanced Learning to add Conjuration spells, that really should be removed...I can't think of any Conjuration buffs/debuffs.

Gnorman
2009-04-29, 03:34 AM
Possibly, but compare it to the Beguiler and Warmage, its closest cousins. They also get 3/4 BAB at least, and with the Hit Die of the Witch Doctor being downgraded to a D6, their HD is now better.

Beguiler gets 1/2 BAB and a d6 HD. Compared to Warmage and Dread Necromancer, the Witch Doctor is overpowered. Compared to the Beguiler, it's STILL overpowered. He has all the polymorph spells. That alone puts him LEAGUES ahead of the others.

He needs 1/2 BAB. Sorry. He's a mage. He doesn't fight.

Overall, I like the class, with a few caveats:

Your advanced learning feature is too broad. I like that you included touch, personal, or short, but four schools to choose from? From three spell lists? Even the Beguiler only gets two. Perhaps just Transmutation and Necromancy? Those seem the most appropriate for the flavor. And only wizard spells - I know this took on a life of its own, but if you want it to be compared to Beguilers and Warmages, don't make it too broad.

And your capstone ability is just INSANE. Instant death for anything you can see at DC of at least... like... 34? A level 20 Witch Doctor is going to have at LEAST 34 CHA - 18 at creation, +5 from levels, +5 from tomes, and a +6 item. That's a DC of 36. Even a Balor would have to roll a 14 or better. A 65% chance of killing a CR 20 monster in just two rounds? Take out the 1/2 WD HD, or at LEAST make it 10 + 1/2HD + CHA. It's just over the top.

Draz74
2009-04-29, 12:59 PM
I'm not a big fan of Vancian casting, but this may be the best homebrew Vancian caster class I've ever seen. Pretty neat.

One idea, if you're worried about having any reasonable offense at low levels (especially if BAB is reduced to 1/2, which I think it should be) is to offer something like a familiar that can do the fighting at low levels. As the WD's offensive spells available become more impressive, the familiar-like companion could fade into the background simply by not "scaling" very well with higher levels.


Your advanced learning feature is too broad. I like that you included touch, personal, or short, but four schools to choose from? From three spell lists? Even the Beguiler only gets two. Perhaps just Transmutation and Necromancy? Those seem the most appropriate for the flavor. And only wizard spells - I know this took on a life of its own, but if you want it to be compared to Beguilers and Warmages, don't make it too broad.

Yeah, I had similar thoughts. Perhaps cut Cleric spells out, but leave Wizard and Druid spells? And at least get rid of Conjuration as an option; all by itself it's much too broad! Besides, I think either Divination or Enchantment is a better match for the WD, flavor-wise, than Conjuration (or Abjuration).

I'm glad you took out Enervation. I can see some WD's using it, but not all, and that's fine, those WDs will just need to spend an Advanced Learning on it.

The Glyphstone
2009-04-29, 01:43 PM
I'm happy dropping the BAB to 1/2 progression, considering I had been convinced until about a month ago that Warmages had 3/4 BAB - and if anyone deserves it, they would. How would I justify, flavor-wise, a familiar or combat companion feature though?

Conjuration can be stripped out of Advanced Learning, I don't know why it's there in the first place. Abjuration has a lot of good personal buffs, but I'm not against removing it from Advanced Learning. I want to keep the broad list access, though - with only 4 Advanced Learning choices to spend, a WD has to be careful with what he picks...with Cleric spell access, the WD can pick up [Healing] spells to serve as a backup healer - something that (I think, at least) fits with the voodoo theme.

As for Voodoo Fatebond, it technically is already 10+1/2 HD+Cha, but it's also factoring the +4 DC from Powerful Voodoo. Considering it's a Supernatural ability and not a spell, and it involves destroying the doll, i can justify it not being included. As for being too powerful, keep in mind that a 200GP+ material component will add up after a while, and it both requires LoS and has the [Death] tag - Death Ward is pretty easy to obtain at level 20.

Godskook
2009-04-29, 02:33 PM
How would I justify, flavor-wise, a familiar or combat companion feature though?

Using swamp and African animals is really all you need. Hell, snakes have enough variety in real life that you could use just them and get all the added flavor you need with little to no mechanical bonus over a wizard's snake. Rattlesnakes give you a bonus on intimidate checks, cobras give +1 to the DC of any mind-affecting ability you use and so on.


Conjuration can be stripped out of Advanced Learning, I don't know why it's there in the first place. Abjuration has a lot of good personal buffs, but I'm not against removing it from Advanced Learning. I want to keep the broad list access, though - with only 4 Advanced Learning choices to spend, a WD has to be careful with what he picks...with Cleric spell access, the WD can pick up [Healing] spells to serve as a backup healer - something that (I think, at least) fits with the voodoo theme.

Don't be afraid to trim down Advanced Learning to specific spells so that you know what the worst cheese is.

Faulty
2009-04-29, 03:08 PM
Warmages have 1/2 BAB.

The Glyphstone
2009-04-29, 03:37 PM
Yeah, I found that out when the Warmage player in my game asked me if I'd up Warmage BAB to 3/4 and I was like "wait...they don't have 3/4 BAB already?"

Gnorman
2009-04-30, 12:18 AM
If you dig deep into some obscure Ravenloft setting sourcebook, it has something about vodouns and loa and crap like that. Decent inspirational material, perhaps?

This might sound out of the bounds of the class, but think about the concept of the loa: they are spirits who like to take a ride on a vessel.

They should be relatively small, untyped buffs that accentuate a skill or provide a small bonus. But they can only be done a few times a day, for a limited time.

Baron Samedi, the Lord of the Dead: When the Witch Doctor (or Vodoun) is hosting the Baron, he gains +1 CL on necromancy spells.

Draz74
2009-04-30, 02:10 PM
How would I justify, flavor-wise, a familiar or combat companion feature though?
Hmmm, odd question. I just thought having a familiar of some sort was very compatible flavor with a witch-doctor.

Perhaps something less like an animal and more like the Hexblade Dark Companion, in terms of flavor and how easy it is to get it back if it gets killed. Although I was imagining its main purpose would be to make melee attacks, so that at least is very different from the Hexblade.


Conjuration can be stripped out of Advanced Learning, I don't know why it's there in the first place. Abjuration has a lot of good personal buffs, but I'm not against removing it from Advanced Learning. I want to keep the broad list access, though - with only 4 Advanced Learning choices to spend, a WD has to be careful with what he picks...with Cleric spell access, the WD can pick up [Healing] spells to serve as a backup healer - something that (I think, at least) fits with the voodoo theme.

Yes, it does fit, but I think Druid spell access should be plenty of healing ability.

The Glyphstone
2009-04-30, 07:31 PM
True, Druids do have the Cure spells anyways, and they've also got Vigor. They don't have the Inflict line, but that's a relatively minor loss overall. The problem now is that the WD's spell list as it stands includes a number of Cleric spells - if I cut out Advanced Learning's Cleric access, should I also be removing all Cleric spells from his spell list entirely?

Draz74
2009-04-30, 11:20 PM
True, Druids do have the Cure spells anyways, and they've also got Vigor. They don't have the Inflict line, but that's a relatively minor loss overall. The problem now is that the WD's spell list as it stands includes a number of Cleric spells - if I cut out Advanced Learning's Cleric access, should I also be removing all Cleric spells from his spell list entirely?

Meh, nah. It's fine how it is. The Beguiler can only pick Advanced Learning from Enchantment and Illusion; that doesn't mean all of his spell list is Enchantment and Illusion. It's not. Heck, he can qualify for Archmage.

Inflict is an interesting issue, though. That line of spells does seem very flavor-appropriate for the WD. I'd actually recommend adding them to the WD spell list. Maybe just having Inflict Light Wounds at level one would get rid of the WD's low-level lack of offense nicely? And if any Inflict spells would make the class too powerful, you could just delay access to them by a spell level (like the Druid does with Cure spells).

The Glyphstone
2009-05-01, 12:58 AM
Ooh, that's a very good idea. A voodoo doctor needs pain-based spells, after all.

Connor Darkdart
2009-05-01, 02:38 AM
I really like this class, Now I just need to find a setting to use it in.

The Glyphstone
2009-05-01, 12:17 PM
In the short-lived playtest game I tried it in, I had it as an import from a foreign jungle tribe (a Xen'drik elf, specifically) - if a world has savage/tribal culture or any real unexplored regions, it's pretty easy to transplant in.

Guy-Nightbeast
2010-02-17, 10:49 AM
I like the character class, though I think it can use some editing.

First off Voodoo doesn't always mean dolls, but it includes potions, charms, enchanted items, though generally made of wood or pure organic materials. They also created healing salves among other things

Possibly the most signature Voodoo/Hoodoo charm is the Mojo Hand, a small bag infused with herbs, a personal part of the body, and a mass of intent for something. Generally known for enhancing a persons' ability to preform music, but it is also know to increase prowess in any chosen field.

I think that the Craft Voodoo skill is great, but I think the Witchdoctor should also have something called Craft Hoodoo which would be charms/potions of different flavors, to increase stats/skills for short term or long term. I'd suggest this skill at the first level and it follows the same pattern as the voodoo concept.

Remember, witchdoctor's are generally shamans with a different flavor.


Craft Hoodoo: A skill similar to craft voodoo. Craft hoodoo is generally crafting a charm of small size using herbs, a personal item, generally hair clippings, a bit of blood, a clipped nail, and other items depending on the purpose of the charm. It generally costs about 12gp of materials. It adds a bonus, generally of +1 to a stat, skill, or saving throw and can be edited to increase said stat, skill, or saving throw, so long as the DM agrees to such a change.


I know that was rough, but please do consider it and edit it even.

Zombulian
2012-03-07, 08:14 PM
I like the character class, though I think it can use some editing.

First off Voodoo doesn't always mean dolls, but it includes potions, charms, enchanted items, though generally made of wood or pure organic materials. They also created healing salves among other things

Possibly the most signature Voodoo/Hoodoo charm is the Mojo Hand, a small bag infused with herbs, a personal part of the body, and a mass of intent for something. Generally known for enhancing a persons' ability to preform music, but it is also know to increase prowess in any chosen field.

I think that the Craft Voodoo skill is great, but I think the Witchdoctor should also have something called Craft Hoodoo which would be charms/potions of different flavors, to increase stats/skills for short term or long term. I'd suggest this skill at the first level and it follows the same pattern as the voodoo concept.

Remember, witchdoctor's are generally shamans with a different flavor.


Craft Hoodoo: A skill similar to craft voodoo. Craft hoodoo is generally crafting a charm of small size using herbs, a personal item, generally hair clippings, a bit of blood, a clipped nail, and other items depending on the purpose of the charm. It generally costs about 12gp of materials. It adds a bonus, generally of +1 to a stat, skill, or saving throw and can be edited to increase said stat, skill, or saving throw, so long as the DM agrees to such a change.


I know that was rough, but please do consider it and edit it even.



I agree with this very much. Except maybe instead of a progressive extra ability, you could make it similar to the crafting pool that Artificers have?

Even if you don't make these changes I like the class very much and look forward to a chance to use it :smallbiggrin:!