Dark Undead Campaign. Need help fleshing out some ideas and balancing?

[Nikushimi]

Hey there! I'm currently in the process of world building one of two campaigns I have in the making for the players to choose from when I end up running in the future.

I have two that I am working on and will see what kind of campaign setting they would rather play in. The first having a more light tone to it and your typical High Fantasy type of world which takes inspiration from the anime DanMachi and other sources.

The second, and the one this thread is pertaining to, I have taken inspiration from themes that are much darker than the first world. Taking inspiration from the likes of Dark Souls, Bloodborne, Van Helsing, Curse of Strahd, and the like.

First, I'll tell the premise to let you get a feel for the world. In certain sections I'll number my options and ask for your input. I'd appreciate any thoughts on the matter. Questions I have will also be posted in those sections that pertain to that particular thing.

The premise for context of the world: A gloom hangs over the land as undead roam outside of the great walled cities. The last bastion of mortals. The Elves have taken to the parts of their forest that have yet to be touched by the decay of the land. Their cities natural bastions made by their ancestors long past.

It has been quite some time since this gloom has taken over most of the living world. The sky is a perpetual grey during the day, with rare shimmers of sunlight through the dense clouds, and at night the moon shines ethereally through them. To venture beyond the safety of the walls is suicide, and yet for those searching for a way to return the land to what it once was this must be done.

To venture into the lands that were taken and find the source of their corruption. Eventually, this will lead them to the truth, but what is truth? Is it worth it? Will they be able to find the source and change the world or is it doomed to decay?

The world is basically meant to be harsh and unforgiving. Darkness looms over the land and sickness spreads. Lands become bogs and marshes where ruins sink into the earth. Many vile creatures prowl around.

Everything is behind the walls of the great cities. Bastions of all the races who have come together from the outlying lands.

Magic: While magic is alive and well in the world, it is actually quite rare to find someone with the talent, and if you do they are a commodity and highly sought after. Divine Casters are extremely rare and a commodity. Arcane Casters are more common, but still quite rare.

1. How do you suggest me to handle something like this? The players wanting to play these classes would be rare sights indeed.

Hook for the players: In the world, much like in the Souls series, the players will be "marked". Not the first, but the most recent. They have died, yet did not succumb to undeath like most other undead. They rise anew and venture into the world. Eventually, they will lose themselves and succumb to undeath like all the others, but when? Is there a way to cure them? Perhaps to venture forth and find the source of the corruption may do so?

This is basically the plot hook for the characters. They are marked, which allows them to return from death, but at a cost. Though, I'm unsure how to balance this properly. Here are my options. Let me know what you think and if it will suffice. If you have other suggestions, I'm all ears.

1. I plan on making something akin to bonfires like in the Souls series, but using more stone circles. Resting outside in the wilderness is bound to kill you. So finding old houses, or old churches would be the "rest stops" of the world. In these places, especially churches, these stone circles are there. Thus, upon death they will return to the last place they rested at. That is, if they are not healed or brought back by party members.
-1b. Is this an okay mechanic? This will make the players more wary of dying and do their best not to. The whole point of the game is survival. What do you think on this mechanic?

2. Since characters cannot "die" per se there IS a penalty for death, but I'm unsure how to handle this. In 5e you have death saves. Great. That's fantastic, but when a character fails their saves and "dies" they lose a part of themselves. A sort of reference to how in the Souls games Undead "lose themselves" after dying so much. I'm having a hard time deciding how to handle this.
-2a. My first option is that this will take away 1 permanent Wisdom point from there Wisdom score.
-2b. Some casters rely on this, BUT as they are dying and losing their sanity this is supposed to be a harsh world.
-2c. I was thinking on leaving this up to a percentage roll. When they truly die and return they would roll the percentile, and if they succeed then they are able to retain their Wisdom/Sanity, but if they fail then they lose that point.
-2e. They will have the ability to regain these points though via defeating enemies and taking from them something (what that something is, I'm unsure. Was thinking perhaps their heart or a crystal that's been filled with the essence and they crush it and make it into a drink of some sort). This would allow them to regain those points, but they'd have to work for it.

Overall, what do you think of this particular mechanic? Is it too much or is it pretty thematic and interesting?

On a side note, when their Wisdom score hits 0 they are effectively no longer playable. They become a mindless, albeit more intelligent, undead that will attack indiscriminately any friends, family, or loved ones nearby. As they lose their Wisdom score they become more erratic, more "mad". How do I play this part for them? How do I introduce such things to make them more wary?

3. Survival. I want this game to be harsh. Challenge the players. That's why the above options are there. They cannot die in the world of undeath, but they lose something of themselves when they do.

How else can I give the impression of survival?

Basically, what can I do to make it more imperative that they don't just simply rush headlong into things? They will eventually succumb to undeath if they do this.

Overall, is this too harsh of a setting or do you think it could work? The premise of the campaign is to be dark, harsh, and themed as such.

What are your inputs? How could I improve this? Most things will be undead or some kind of monstrosity.

I appreciate any input you have! Thank you! :D

P.s. If anyone has any ideas on what sorts of "bosses" there might for such a campaign setting, I'm all ears. I have a Vampire set up for one, and possibly a Lich for another. I may also take from Dark Souls itself as I've found some good sources for 5e versions.

Your thoughts are appreciated, thank you!

EDIT: I forgot to add something from before.

Darkvision. The world is dark. Darkness creeps around the corner. It is one of the factors which makes the world more dangerous.

How detrimental would it be for whatever has afflicted the land to have also afflicted the Darkvision of the races causing them to lose the ability, or at least have it nerfed in some way?

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Darkvision. The world is dark. Darkness creeps around the corner. It is one of the factors which makes the world more dangerous.

How detrimental would it be for whatever has afflicted the land to have also afflicted the Darkvision of the races causing them to lose the ability, or at least have it nerfed in some way?

Honestly, most people forget that standard darkvision only makes dark light into Dim light (disadvantage on sight based perception checks) so I think you could get away with not changing it if you just started really emphasizing that it's still hard to see.

[Nikushimi]

Honestly, most people forget that standard darkvision only makes dark light into Dim light (disadvantage on sight based perception checks) so I think you could get away with not changing it if you just started really emphasizing that it's still hard to see.

Not that I forget. It's more that while they have disadvantage in total darkness on perception checks with sight (even though they see in shades of grey in complete darkness), they don't quite have any when there's dim lighting as dim light acts as bright light.

I'm not trying to give my players a constant disadvantage. It's more that there are creatures who may be moving about that I don't want someone with darkvision to go "Oh, yeah. I saw that move over there in the dimly lit area."

I am starting to see how removing Darkvision would be annoying to players, and I'm starting to see how I could emphasize things, but I feel my players would start to wonder what is the point of Darkvision if I emphasize that they still can't see very well.

But I appreciate the input. I hope I can get more! I'm still trying to flesh this world out to make it feel gritty, dark, and harsh. I appreciate any and all input. Thank you!

[Sparky McDibben]

You may not need to nerf darkvision; try including light fogs or mists (or rain!) to help with obscurement.

[Nikushimi]

You may not need to nerf darkvision; try including light fogs or mists (or rain!) to help with obscurement.

That would be an option as that would be something that is almost a constant in some areas of the world.

But that brings me back to the problem of the players questioning what the point of Darkvision is for then, but the more I think about it the more it makes sense for me not to nerf Darkvision.

Just have to find ways to better work on how to obscure things. Thanks!
---

Does anyone have any input on the other things or on how to give the feel of a more harsh world where survival is important? Much appreciated!

[Sorinth]

I would suggest rather then static penalties for every death you have triggerable conditions that become harder to resist.

So for example anytime a character takes X or more damage in a round they must make a Wis save or fall under the effects of a confusion spell. The DC gets harder every death, if it gets high enough they become an undead NPC.

The damage threshold could scale with level, and in holy places they might get advantage on the saves.



To handle the darkvision you can simply give some/most of the undead the Skulker feat. They can then still hide when it's dark since even with darkvision it's low-light conditions.

[Nikushimi]

I would suggest rather then static penalties for every death you have triggerable conditions that become harder to resist.

So for example anytime a character takes X or more damage in a round they must make a Wis save or fall under the effects of a confusion spell. The DC gets harder every death, if it gets high enough they become an undead NPC.

The damage threshold could scale with level, and in holy places they might get advantage on the saves.



To handle the darkvision you can simply give some/most of the undead the Skulker feat. They can then still hide when it's dark since even with darkvision it's low-light conditions.

An interesting idea.

I had also played around with the idea that they have "sanity" points or "will" points. Which everyone starts with the same amount, and each death they lose 1 point. When it reaches 0 they become an Undead NPC.

Though I wasn't too sure about adding a new number to keep track of, but it could work out.

Perhaps starting each one off with 5 to 10 of these points.

Though, the save DC is an interesting idea as well.

The idea is to basically show that they are losing themselves each time they die. That they have detrimental effects on the players as a way to show this, and to have it effect their character such a way that they and everyone else around notices it if they do not take care of it.

[Sorinth]

For monsters,

A good starting boss would be a Wight with his raised zombies. Basically if a Wight has managed to get into the city and has started ambushing people at night and raising zombies, the PCs might have to investigate reports of pools of blood but no body and/or missing people.

If you want enemies that stay dangerous for long periods of time, then a wraith makes a solid early-mid level boss fight, and at higher levels they make excellent lead up encounters since their life drain attack can make it so that the party can't go into the boss fight at full health without resting, and you seem to be trying to limit the ease of long rests. Though you might need a way of dealing with spells like Rope Trick and Leomund's Tiny Hut if you want them to find your magic stone circles

Similarly Shadows make a scary opponent no matter the level since strength drain can be devastating. Even at higher levels a group of them can wreck a player thanks to bounded accuracy.

[Sorinth]

An interesting idea.

I had also played around with the idea that they have "sanity" points or "will" points. Which everyone starts with the same amount, and each death they lose 1 point. When it reaches 0 they become an Undead NPC.

Though I wasn't too sure about adding a new number to keep track of, but it could work out.

Perhaps starting each one off with 5 to 10 of these points.

Though, the save DC is an interesting idea as well.

The idea is to basically show that they are losing themselves each time they die. That they have detrimental effects on the players as a way to show this, and to have it effect their character such a way that they and everyone else around notices it if they do not take care of it.

Slowly loosing yourself is in essense role-playing. If your players are interested in it, then you wouldn't even need in game penalties since you would just tell them they are are losing a part of themselves and they would role-play it out.

But if you want to have penalties in there as a way of influencing behavior, I'm not fond of a static penalty because they make you worse off but don't really change the way you act. The tactics they use will pretty much stay the same (Assuming they are optimized), you are just worse at certain things. On the other hand if it's a temporary penalty that gets triggered by something happening, players will more likely change their behavior/tactics since they have ways to mitigate the triggering situation.

As for providing a sense of slowly losing themselves, a higher DC models that aspect quite nicely. If it starts out with a low DC then the bouts of confusion will be infrequent and short duration. As the DC gets higher, they become more common and last longer due to more failed saves. So it starts out as a minor inconvenience and grows to becomes a serious problem. For example a character that has a 75% chance of saving will lose a turn to confusion here and there, but it's not going to be very often and will rarely last more then 1-2 turns. But if they die a bunch of times and now at a 35% chance to make his save it's happening frequently and likely lasts multiple turns.

[Nikushimi]

For monsters,

A good starting boss would be a Wight with his raised zombies. Basically if a Wight has managed to get into the city and has started ambushing people at night and raising zombies, the PCs might have to investigate reports of pools of blood but no body and/or missing people.

If you want enemies that stay dangerous for long periods of time, then a wraith makes a solid early-mid level boss fight, and at higher levels they make excellent lead up encounters since their life drain attack can make it so that the party can't go into the boss fight at full health without resting, and you seem to be trying to limit the ease of long rests. Though you might need a way of dealing with spells like Rope Trick and Leomund's Tiny Hut if you want them to find your magic stone circles

Similarly Shadows make a scary opponent no matter the level since strength drain can be devastating. Even at higher levels a group of them can wreck a player thanks to bounded accuracy.

All good ideas!

The beginning of the story will basically have them start off with a foggy memory, but as they learn more about what happened to them and find out that they are "marked" they are tasked to investigate a part of the starting town that has since been walled off because undead began to appear there.

Since all bodies are supposed to be burned, someone wasn't doing this and was keeping it secret. So, basically this would be the Wight as you said, so that encounter I've thought of, but I appreciate the input!

Since I've taken some inspiration from the Souls series each area will will have their "Lord" or ruler of that area which has since succumbed to the corruption of the world.

Other than that, the enemies will be mostly modified versions of existing monsters except with undead or spooky tones to them. Those who aren't undead mostly become undead. Such as Undead Kobolds and Goblins. There will be zombies and skeletons aplenty. They are the most common enemy and most abundant.

I also have found some stat blocks for things from Dark Souls, and as another first boss I was planning on using the Belltower Gargoyle. Kind of a reskinned Gargoyle, but without all the resistances and some unique fight mechanics.

Most "bosses" will have some kind of unique thing to them. Some may have a puzzle to defeat them, or have to defeat them a certain way like a weakness they have to figure out.

As for rests and magic.

Magic is already rare, but for those spells that may protect a user during rest...they will not grant a place to return upon death, and who knows how many dead may be waiting after their rest.

I'm not so much trying to limit short and long rests, but more so wanting to portray the dangers of resting outside of the Chapels which hold the circles within.

[Nikushimi]

Slowly loosing yourself is in essense role-playing. If your players are interested in it, then you wouldn't even need in game penalties since you would just tell them they are are losing a part of themselves and they would role-play it out.

But if you want to have penalties in there as a way of influencing behavior, I'm not fond of a static penalty because they make you worse off but don't really change the way you act. The tactics they use will pretty much stay the same (Assuming they are optimized), you are just worse at certain things. On the other hand if it's a temporary penalty that gets triggered by something happening, players will more likely change their behavior/tactics since they have ways to mitigate the triggering situation.

As for providing a sense of slowly losing themselves, a higher DC models that aspect quite nicely. If it starts out with a low DC then the bouts of confusion will be infrequent and short duration. As the DC gets higher, they become more common and last longer due to more failed saves. So it starts out as a minor inconvenience and grows to becomes a serious problem. For example a character that has a 75% chance of saving will lose a turn to confusion here and there, but it's not going to be very often and will rarely last more then 1-2 turns. But if they die a bunch of times and now at a 35% chance to make his save it's happening frequently and likely lasts multiple turns.

I see what you're saying. It gets me thinking a bit on how to pull off exactly what I want.

The fact that I went for something more static, like losing a point of Wisdom, is because it's supposed to be like "Oh ****, I just lost a point in this. How do I return it, and myself, back to normal?"

A DC roll could work in that regards. Though, I'd have to think of a way to work it in to be properly effect.

Just doing it when they get hit is a bit...idk. It would have to be something that can happen at any time. Not just when they get hit.

This is getting my brain juices flowing. I appreciate the feedback and ideas!

[Sorinth]

I see what you're saying. It gets me thinking a bit on how to pull off exactly what I want.

The fact that I went for something more static, like losing a point of Wisdom, is because it's supposed to be like "Oh ****, I just lost a point in this. How do I return it, and myself, back to normal?"

A DC roll could work in that regards. Though, I'd have to think of a way to work it in to be properly effect.

Just doing it when they get hit is a bit...idk. It would have to be something that can happen at any time. Not just when they get hit.

This is getting my brain juices flowing. I appreciate the feedback and ideas!

I went with taking X damage in a round because it's something that should come up often enough but still easy to tweak to get the frequency you want. Although there's no reason to have it limited only to damage, having other ways could be interesting. In fact if there were multiple ways and they have to piece it together with research or it happening often enough that they recognize the pattern could be all part of the plot of figuring out how/why they are marked to begin with.

Or maybe have it linked to necrotic energy. So whenever they take necrotic damage, but also there are areas/objects that are infused with necrotic energy that force saves every round/minute/hour/day depending on how powerful the necrotic energy is. Presumably whatever is corrupting/destroying the land is generating necrotic energy.



If you want to start the how do I get rid of this thing questline, I would suggest having the PCs know the DC at all times, and since they died once already, they would start off with a low DC value. Then at some point hopefully after at least one PCs has had his DC increased from dying they find something that lowers the DC. That should get them onto the whole where can I get more of that stuff train.

[Safety Sword]

I would suggest rather then static penalties for every death you have triggerable conditions that become harder to resist.

So for example anytime a character takes X or more damage in a round they must make a Wis save or fall under the effects of a confusion spell. The DC gets harder every death, if it gets high enough they become an undead NPC.

The damage threshold could scale with level, and in holy places they might get advantage on the saves.



This shouldn't be hard to keep track of. You just make a condition called.. I don't know... Death Count or something and have a table affixed to your DM screen to tell you what each additional increment gains the character. Much like the exhaustion mechanic (except I avoided the word "level" :smalltongue:)

The best bit is that in your very first session you can stir terror in your players by asking them to add a new trait called "Death Count: 0" to their character sheets :smallamused:

[Magicspook]

YES to removing darkvision. I have removed darkvision from my races and I can just throw my players in a dark room and have it be actually eery rather than some player saying "BuT I HAve daRkVisiON"

As for the death count, I really like the suggestions above me^. Remember that anything is basically a bonus from the RAW effect, namely death. If you want to convey the harsh-world feeling, a recoverable -1 to WIS might not cut it. Having said that, you don't want to nerf their characters into unplayability (or unfunness in any case). I would suggest some permanent, cumulative debuff like -1 max hp or the confusion idea above. If you really, really want to have the effect be reversible, maybe only allow the effect to be 'cured' upon defeating a boss or upon levelling up (or a similar rare event that the players cannot count on to happen regularly).

[Sorinth]

All good ideas!

The beginning of the story will basically have them start off with a foggy memory, but as they learn more about what happened to them and find out that they are "marked" they are tasked to investigate a part of the starting town that has since been walled off because undead began to appear there.

Since all bodies are supposed to be burned, someone wasn't doing this and was keeping it secret. So, basically this would be the Wight as you said, so that encounter I've thought of, but I appreciate the input!

Since I've taken some inspiration from the Souls series each area will will have their "Lord" or ruler of that area which has since succumbed to the corruption of the world.

Other than that, the enemies will be mostly modified versions of existing monsters except with undead or spooky tones to them. Those who aren't undead mostly become undead. Such as Undead Kobolds and Goblins. There will be zombies and skeletons aplenty. They are the most common enemy and most abundant.

I also have found some stat blocks for things from Dark Souls, and as another first boss I was planning on using the Belltower Gargoyle. Kind of a reskinned Gargoyle, but without all the resistances and some unique fight mechanics.

Most "bosses" will have some kind of unique thing to them. Some may have a puzzle to defeat them, or have to defeat them a certain way like a weakness they have to figure out.

How many areas are you planning, and are you planning on it being linear where there is a specific order to killing the bosses with each one being a more powerful undead, or are the bosses more or less equal in power and can be fought in any order?

It would be interesting if these area bosses are more or less equal and were actually an ancient adventuring group who were also somehow also "marked". So part of the story would be piecing together the backstory of this adventuring group and in many cases following in their footsteps to foreshadow what might happen to the PCs if they can't figure out this whole "marked" business is all about. The BBEG is essentially the guy the adventurers tried to stop but failed, so now the PCs have to follow in their footsteps and fight the BBEG.

In this case the BBEG would probably be a lich, and each boss could be vampire but differentiated with class/unique abilities, possibly having each boss modelled after an individual PC, but as a corrupted/evil version of them. In this case you kind of want/need to know what the players are planning on doing, especially if they want to mutliclass so that you can build the evil vampire version of that PC.

You would have mini-bosses during the early parts of the campaign until the PCs get powerful enough to take on these vampires.


As for rests and magic.

Magic is already rare, but for those spells that may protect a user during rest...they will not grant a place to return upon death, and who knows how many dead may be waiting after their rest.

I'm not so much trying to limit short and long rests, but more so wanting to portray the dangers of resting outside of the Chapels which hold the circles within.

If you limit where they can long rest, then you certainly limit how often they can rest. I wouldn't play the whole after your rest you are surrounded by a zombie horde too often, especially since for the most part these methods are hidden. Rope Trick is an extra dimensional portal, so there's no reason for any undead to hang around the entrance waiting for the PCs to come out. As a player I would prefer the DM tell us at character creation that those spells are banned rather then creating situations that make them useless.

[Sorinth]

This shouldn't be hard to keep track of. You just make a condition called.. I don't know... Death Count or something and have a table affixed to your DM screen to tell you what each additional increment gains the character. Much like the exhaustion mechanic (except I avoided the word "level" :smalltongue:)

The best bit is that in your very first session you can stir terror in your players by asking them to add a new trait called "Death Count: 0" to their character sheets :smallamused:

According to the OP, the PCs will have already died once, so you would actually tell them to add a new trait "Death Count: 1" which is probably even scarier.

[JackPhoenix]

Remember that Darkvision has limited range. 60' is enough in combat situations, but it won't give you much of a forewarning about walking into an ambush.

[Nikushimi]

This shouldn't be hard to keep track of. You just make a condition called.. I don't know... Death Count or something and have a table affixed to your DM screen to tell you what each additional increment gains the character. Much like the exhaustion mechanic (except I avoided the word "level" :smalltongue:)

The best bit is that in your very first session you can stir terror in your players by asking them to add a new trait called "Death Count: 0" to their character sheets :smallamused:

I like this idea. I'm basically brainstorming ideas to show the dangers of dying too often and losing yourself. Something that Dark Souls always hinted at what made people "hollows" but never implemented really with the PC because well...nothing really happened except you either looked like beef jerky (DS1) or you lost max HP (DS2), and in 3 you were ashes and didn't lose anything.

But this idea not only allows the player to be like "Oh ****, Death Count" but allows it to affect them in a way the more they have with certain things happening, like the confusion that Sorinth talked about.


YES to removing darkvision. I have removed darkvision from my races and I can just throw my players in a dark room and have it be actually eery rather than some player saying "BuT I HAve daRkVisiON"

As for the death count, I really like the suggestions above me^. Remember that anything is basically a bonus from the RAW effect, namely death. If you want to convey the harsh-world feeling, a recoverable -1 to WIS might not cut it. Having said that, you don't want to nerf their characters into unplayability (or unfunness in any case). I would suggest some permanent, cumulative debuff like -1 max hp or the confusion idea above. If you really, really want to have the effect be reversible, maybe only allow the effect to be 'cured' upon defeating a boss or upon levelling up (or a similar rare event that the players cannot count on to happen regularly).

Well, it would be a cumulative -1 till the Wisdom hit 0. Because in the Souls series, as people died they began to lose reasoning until they had none and attacked anything that wasn't Undead. Hitting the Wisdom score seemed thematic and reasonable, but that's why I brought it here, to get ideas on how to get the effect across in other ways, and I've gotten some great ideas!

As for Curing things...I'm not sure how I'm going to do it, but it's going to be something that morally challenges the player. Either it's going to be "You must kill other Marked ones and absorb their essence. Something that only Marked ones can do." or something like "You must ingest a drink made from undead." or something. Unsure as of yet what it would be, but it wouldn't be something easy, and I want it to challenge them.


How many areas are you planning, and are you planning on it being linear where there is a specific order to killing the bosses with each one being a more powerful undead, or are the bosses more or less equal in power and can be fought in any order?

It would be interesting if these area bosses are more or less equal and were actually an ancient adventuring group who were also somehow also "marked". So part of the story would be piecing together the backstory of this adventuring group and in many cases following in their footsteps to foreshadow what might happen to the PCs if they can't figure out this whole "marked" business is all about. The BBEG is essentially the guy the adventurers tried to stop but failed, so now the PCs have to follow in their footsteps and fight the BBEG.

In this case the BBEG would probably be a lich, and each boss could be vampire but differentiated with class/unique abilities, possibly having each boss modelled after an individual PC, but as a corrupted/evil version of them. In this case you kind of want/need to know what the players are planning on doing, especially if they want to mutliclass so that you can build the evil vampire version of that PC.

You would have mini-bosses during the early parts of the campaign until the PCs get powerful enough to take on these vampires.

A breakdown of what actually happened to understand what the BBEG's are. The world was created by something called "The Heart of the World" or simply "The Heart". It created all things, including the races. What were once one race called the Ancestrals. These Ancestrals evolved into the different races through where they decided to settle and live after many centuries.

The world began to absorb the malice and negative emotions of the races. Wars, murder, greed, and more began to seep into the very world itself. This began to warp the world where battlefields were. Turning them into blood marshes and twisting the are. The Heart being part of the world eventually had these same negative emotions seep into it. Being somewhat sentient it knew this was a bad thing. So, instead of taking what little bits of negative emotions that seeped into it the Heart began to take in all that it could of the negative emotions to allow peace to be restored to the world. The lands returned to normal, and peace reigned between Kingdoms.

This went on for centuries. The Heart absorbed all the malice and negative emotions it could and tried to contain and destroy it, but it was too much even for the Heart. It soon became corrupted, but was able to contain it to its chamber, where it rests.

Scholars and other people began to hear myths about the Heart of the World. The thing that created all of creation.

A party was formed to research it, and eventually they found it. However, there were some who had greed in their hearts and wanted to use the Heart for their own purposes. Upon finding the Chamber of the Heart the corruption seeped into them, and those who were more greedy than those who simply came to research it instantly reached out for the Heart to take its power. The others tried to stop them, but were too late.

As the Heart was touched and part of its power taken a shockwave of negative emotions blasted out from it and knocked those around it unconscious except for the initial ones who touched it. Upon waking, those who were there to simply investigate and held no interest in its power saw that before it now was a ring of corpses all reaching up towards it. The ones close to those who took its power trying to either stop them or take the power themselves. All dead, all reaching.

They then decided to take the power of the Heart for themselves. After all, THEY knew better. THEY could control it. THEY Could stop the others. So they took power from the Heart as well, and then sealed the chamber.

After heading out they began to try to combat the "Evil" ones who took the power first, but the corruption inside them now was too much, and drove them into a maddened fervor of "righteousness", and for a time they were at a stalemate, but as this corruption spread, it seeped into the land. Their interaction with the Heart allowed the corruption it was keeping at bay to seep into the land and spread. Even if they became aware of it, they could do nothing to stop it.

This happened for centuries. The current story takes place roughly 1000+ years after the originators found the Heart and began to corrupt their regions. The world has been like this for a LONG time that not many people remember it being anything but this.

So, each region that the original ones to interact with the Heart had retreated, usually their home region, began to become even more corrupted and changed into monstrosities or corrupted forms of themselves. A few became Liches, a region was overthrown by Vampires that was created by one of them (they rose up because the madness their creator had was too much, but now it's still a land of Vampires), others were corrupted beyond recognition. So, basically each region the "bosses" or the main bad guys are pretty much equal in power, yes.

Some might be stronger as my players gain in levels, but lore wise yes. They are equal. So they can go to any region, but may pass through certain other regions on their way. The land is infested. So it's semi linear.

So each region is unique based on the originator that found the Heart.

I have a linear version of this (in case they want just a short campaign) and a non linear version in case they want a more sandbox longer campaign.


If you limit where they can long rest, then you certainly limit how often they can rest. I wouldn't play the whole after your rest you are surrounded by a zombie horde too often, especially since for the most part these methods are hidden. Rope Trick is an extra dimensional portal, so there's no reason for any undead to hang around the entrance waiting for the PCs to come out. As a player I would prefer the DM tell us at character creation that those spells are banned rather then creating situations that make them useless.

It's limiting where they can long rest SAFELY. To rest safely, they must find chapels that are spread thoughout the land.

But yes, I wasn't sure how people felt about banning spells, but was gonna say that some spells were either lost over the years, or that the undead outside wander around and they find some when they wake. Or they find a more dangerous undead who is prone to know magic, like an intelligent undead wizard. Not quite a lich, but something with just a better intelligence than most other undead.

I get what you're saying though. Might ban them in that case so as to not overuse the whole "undead are around when you wake" even though it WOULD be the case. Undead are everywhere in the world. There's almost no end to them. Going out to just attack a group of undead without making sure no others were in the area might attract more than they think.

[Nikushimi]

I appreciate all the ideas and help!

I'm a relatively new DM, but have DM'd in the past, but for older editions. So getting some help with this is appreciated.

And to answer how many regions...not sure yet. I haven't quite decided on that.

So far I have roughly 3 to 4 in my mind.

The Sunken Kingdom.

The Infested Woods.

The Frozen Capital (name might change for this one).

The Blood Marshes.

And possibly one other.

The first region they will immediately find is probably a more swampy area, so might be the Blood Marshes, as to get to the "mainland" from where they start, which is a peninsula that the Great Walled City of Cainhurst sits (their starting city) they have to go through land that has seemingly sunk into itself. Becoming infested and sicked. A marshy land with ruins half sunken into the ground.

Don't really have a name for that region yet.

Thinking that is where the Gargoyle encounter will be. Unsure yet. After that, the place is open to them for exploring.

EDIT: Just because I don't want to post three separate times.

I am also planning on not having them leave the starting city of Cainhurst until they are level 3. The Great Walled Cities of the world are the last bastions of the races. There are no small towns except for ruins. So, because almost all the people in an area have retreated to these cities, the cities grew to be metropolises. So, they'll be in the city for a while. At least till level 3 doing various things.

Not sure if that grants any more information on ideas, but yeah.

[Sorinth]

A breakdown of what actually happened to understand what the BBEG's are. The world was created by something called "The Heart of the World" or simply "The Heart". It created all things, including the races. What were once one race called the Ancestrals. These Ancestrals evolved into the different races through where they decided to settle and live after many centuries.

The world began to absorb the malice and negative emotions of the races. Wars, murder, greed, and more began to seep into the very world itself. This began to warp the world where battlefields were. Turning them into blood marshes and twisting the are. The Heart being part of the world eventually had these same negative emotions seep into it. Being somewhat sentient it knew this was a bad thing. So, instead of taking what little bits of negative emotions that seeped into it the Heart began to take in all that it could of the negative emotions to allow peace to be restored to the world. The lands returned to normal, and peace reigned between Kingdoms.

This went on for centuries. The Heart absorbed all the malice and negative emotions it could and tried to contain and destroy it, but it was too much even for the Heart. It soon became corrupted, but was able to contain it to its chamber, where it rests.

Scholars and other people began to hear myths about the Heart of the World. The thing that created all of creation.

A party was formed to research it, and eventually they found it. However, there were some who had greed in their hearts and wanted to use the Heart for their own purposes. Upon finding the Chamber of the Heart the corruption seeped into them, and those who were more greedy than those who simply came to research it instantly reached out for the Heart to take its power. The others tried to stop them, but were too late.

As the Heart was touched and part of its power taken a shockwave of negative emotions blasted out from it and knocked those around it unconscious except for the initial ones who touched it. Upon waking, those who were there to simply investigate and held no interest in its power saw that before it now was a ring of corpses all reaching up towards it. The ones close to those who took its power trying to either stop them or take the power themselves. All dead, all reaching.

They then decided to take the power of the Heart for themselves. After all, THEY knew better. THEY could control it. THEY Could stop the others. So they took power from the Heart as well, and then sealed the chamber.

After heading out they began to try to combat the "Evil" ones who took the power first, but the corruption inside them now was too much, and drove them into a maddened fervor of "righteousness", and for a time they were at a stalemate, but as this corruption spread, it seeped into the land. Their interaction with the Heart allowed the corruption it was keeping at bay to seep into the land and spread. Even if they became aware of it, they could do nothing to stop it.

This happened for centuries. The current story takes place roughly 1000+ years after the originators found the Heart and began to corrupt their regions. The world has been like this for a LONG time that not many people remember it being anything but this.

So, each region that the original ones to interact with the Heart had retreated, usually their home region, began to become even more corrupted and changed into monstrosities or corrupted forms of themselves. A few became Liches, a region was overthrown by Vampires that was created by one of them (they rose up because the madness their creator had was too much, but now it's still a land of Vampires), others were corrupted beyond recognition. So, basically each region the "bosses" or the main bad guys are pretty much equal in power, yes.

Some might be stronger as my players gain in levels, but lore wise yes. They are equal. So they can go to any region, but may pass through certain other regions on their way. The land is infested. So it's semi linear.

So each region is unique based on the originator that found the Heart.

I have a linear version of this (in case they want just a short campaign) and a non linear version in case they want a more sandbox longer campaign.

Sounds cool. Depending on how/why the PCs are marked then having them make a save works quite nicely as it can happen whenever they have a strong negative emotion or encounter objects/places where strong negative emotions imprinted themselves into the object/place. This allows you to have that can happen at any time feel that you were looking for.

If you go this way you could even tailor the effects to be based off the negative emotion. For example, if you pick up a sword used in a grisly murder you might have to make a save and failure would cause you to stab out randomely at the nearest person. While exploring the ruined mansion of a greedy noble they have to make a save or become overcome with avarice, failure means they grab a heavy piece of artwork and refuse to leave it behind. They are then heavily encumbered until they leave the mansion and the effect wears off.

And on the flip side if strong positive emotions can counteract this and help lower the DC, it can make an interesting storyline if the PCs start off as not nice people who eventually figure out that if they want to save themselves they have to find a way to become good people. Throw in some morally ambigous/outright evil ways of harvesting positive emotions from others and there's a solid a moral dilemma.


It's limiting where they can long rest SAFELY. To rest safely, they must find chapels that are spread thoughout the land.

But yes, I wasn't sure how people felt about banning spells, but was gonna say that some spells were either lost over the years, or that the undead outside wander around and they find some when they wake. Or they find a more dangerous undead who is prone to know magic, like an intelligent undead wizard. Not quite a lich, but something with just a better intelligence than most other undead.

I get what you're saying though. Might ban them in that case so as to not overuse the whole "undead are around when you wake" even though it WOULD be the case. Undead are everywhere in the world. There's almost no end to them. Going out to just attack a group of undead without making sure no others were in the area might attract more than they think.

Considering you are giving the players a choice between this campaign world and another one I wouldn't worry too much about banning/changing certain spells or abilities. Though if you want to avoid an outright ban you can also change the spell level so that they don't get access to it early, and if it uses a high level spell slot it's a lot less appealing anyways.

[Nikushimi]

Sounds cool. Depending on how/why the PCs are marked then having them make a save works quite nicely

They way I have my story starting out is that each of them has died already for the first time. Instead of become a mindless undead, they have, for some reason, become marked.

Though the players don't know why they are marked, I do. If it's relevant, they are marked by the Heart. The Heart is reaching out with what it has left of itself to those who have died, and thus been touched by the corruption and granting them to retain themselves. It can't do so for everyone, but for a handful selected (sometimes at random out of desperation). Thus, they are Marked and "saved" from death, but only for so long. This extra time is meant for those chosen to basically help stop the corruption.

That's how and why they are marked. Some give in to their madness as they feel themselves "blessed" and thus use it to their advantage in not so savory ways.

So, in order to "retain" themselves they basically have to take "time" from another person. Though, this in turn is just turning them more mad, but keeping their sanity. Meanwhile, those who try to NOT take from another make some kind of potion made from the very undead they defeat. Allowing them to retain their sanity and not go mad.

Basically, your idea of them needing to do something to someone is something I thought of, but it does have consequences. It works! It allows them to retain themselves and not become an NPC, but it makes them....addicted. Thus, they still go mad, but have their minds still. If that makes sense.

Two ways to help alleviate the effects of the mark basically, but one kind of gets you addicted. Though, for one there are two options. Positive and Negative. So, that's something I'll have to develop further before the game begins.


Considering you are giving the players a choice between this campaign world and another one I wouldn't worry too much about banning/changing certain spells or abilities. Though if you want to avoid an outright ban you can also change the spell level so that they don't get access to it early, and if it uses a high level spell slot it's a lot less appealing anyways.

And yes, I am giving them a choice. One that is lighter and one that is darker. The lighter one is typical high fantasy. The typical DnD styled adventure, but in a unique world with other unique aspects to it, but overall it's high fantasy.

In the darker world, it's more grim. Magic, while very real in this world, mortals are very rarely actually born with the ability to use it. So those players who choose those classes will be extremely rare individuals, and because magic was never that common in mortals, not a lot of spells are actually known. So I may do something akin to them having to research the spells like they're creating it. So even the Sorcerer with their innate spell casting will still have to practice at drawing out the magic they intend with practice. That's how I feel I'll do it for certain spells.

I'll have to go through the spells and find out which ones are common spells that anyone can do, and those that will require practice and study.

[Sorinth]

I appreciate all the ideas and help!

I'm a relatively new DM, but have DM'd in the past, but for older editions. So getting some help with this is appreciated.

And to answer how many regions...not sure yet. I haven't quite decided on that.

So far I have roughly 3 to 4 in my mind.

The Sunken Kingdom.

The Infested Woods.

The Frozen Capital (name might change for this one).

The Blood Marshes.

And possibly one other.

The first region they will immediately find is probably a more swampy area, so might be the Blood Marshes, as to get to the "mainland" from where they start, which is a peninsula that the Great Walled City of Cainhurst sits (their starting city) they have to go through land that has seemingly sunk into itself. Becoming infested and sicked. A marshy land with ruins half sunken into the ground.

Don't really have a name for that region yet.

Thinking that is where the Gargoyle encounter will be. Unsure yet. After that, the place is open to them for exploring.

EDIT: Just because I don't want to post three separate times.

I am also planning on not having them leave the starting city of Cainhurst until they are level 3. The Great Walled Cities of the world are the last bastions of the races. There are no small towns except for ruins. So, because almost all the people in an area have retreated to these cities, the cities grew to be metropolises. So, they'll be in the city for a while. At least till level 3 doing various things.

Not sure if that grants any more information on ideas, but yeah.

One thing to think about is how do these metropolises feed everyone. Normally the big cities farm the surrounding lands. Being on the coast for does allow for fishing, but it's probably not enough to feed a giant city.

You had mentioned divine casters are very rare and are essentially a commodity. So maybe food is factory farmed by druids. The druids are basically slaves to the city overloards since they are key to feeding everyone, though rich nobles might have a garden and their own personal druid.

Though if you want the initial city to be a nicer place, then maybe food isn't a problem thanks to abundant fish supplies, but one of the other cities is inland and that's where the druids are slaves.

A PC wanting to play a divine caster could be a druid that managed to escape and is now more or less in hiding.

[Nikushimi]

One thing to think about is how do these metropolises feed everyone. Normally the big cities farm the surrounding lands. Being on the coast for does allow for fishing, but it's probably not enough to feed a giant city.

You had mentioned divine casters are very rare and are essentially a commodity. So maybe food is factory farmed by druids. The druids are basically slaves to the city overloards since they are key to feeding everyone, though rich nobles might have a garden and their own personal druid.

Though if you want the initial city to be a nicer place, then maybe food isn't a problem thanks to abundant fish supplies, but one of the other cities is inland and that's where the druids are slaves.

A PC wanting to play a divine caster could be a druid that managed to escape and is now more or less in hiding.

I did think of food.

Basically, these Great Walled Cities are huge. Not just because of all the buildings. They have farmlands inside the walls as well.

The starting city is a coastal city, and so they do get fish. Though the waters have become dangerous as well.

So, basically, whatever fertile land is within the city. As people retreated to the capitals of these lands they began to build walls around what was left of the usable land, and when they couldn't build out, they built up to accommodate the population. The first city they start in, Cainhurst, is a large city that is ruled by the Royal Family. The Cainhurst Family. It is a rather large city that takes roughly a day to go from one end to the other. It's a huge city. One of the most populous ones as well. The city is divided into Districts/Provinces that is each run by a Noble family. Near the wall on the outskirts of the city is all the farmland for crops and what animals remain. Other than that they rely on fish and the like.

Most cities are structured in a similar way with the farms being inside of the walls.

Though, not all the Great Walled Cities have as many people as others of the Great Walled Cities.

I'm not sure how many tyranical Great Walled Cities I'll have because the dangers stem from outside of them, and the mortals came together to survive. They can't survive the onslaught outside the walls when they're having issues inside.

Though I think I will throw in one or two where there is someone who rules with an extreme iron fist and no nonsense attitude because "It's my way, or we all die because no other way is right." kind of thing that the players will have to deal with.

But as for the PC's...I'm making a rule where they HAVE to have been from Cainhurst or the surrounding area of Cainhurst. This is basically to allow the world to be unknown for the most part to the players except the area in the city and nearby.

Also, they may not have even died during this lifetime. This is because as long as your soul has not departed to the afterlife you can be pulled back as one of the Marked IF it is your first time dying and you weren't one of the Marked before. So they could have lived in the past, outside of the city when there wasn't corruption. BUT I'd need a really good ass reason for why their soul was still around after 1000+ years.

EDIT: But yes, there is definitely food issues in some areas of the world. I'm not going to say that food is abundant though. At least not in the harsher regions.

Cainhurst is one of the actually better regions, but then again I MAY have them start off in a smaller area and work their way to a better city.

[Sorinth]

I did think of food.

Basically, these Great Walled Cities are huge. Not just because of all the buildings. They have farmlands inside the walls as well.

The starting city is a coastal city, and so they do get fish. Though the waters have become dangerous as well.

So, basically, whatever fertile land is within the city. As people retreated to the capitals of these lands they began to build walls around what was left of the usable land, and when they couldn't build out, they built up to accommodate the population. The first city they start in, Cainhurst, is a large city that is ruled by the Royal Family. The Cainhurst Family. It is a rather large city that takes roughly a day to go from one end to the other. It's a huge city. One of the most populous ones as well. The city is divided into Districts/Provinces that is each run by a Noble family. Near the wall on the outskirts of the city is all the farmland for crops and what animals remain. Other than that they rely on fish and the like.

Most cities are structured in a similar way with the farms being inside of the walls.

Though, not all the Great Walled Cities have as many people as others of the Great Walled Cities.

Since it's fantasy it doesn't really matter, but I'm not sure how feasible it really is to have the walls be so big that it can cover the farmland needed to support the city unless we are talking great wall of china type thing. Since it's a pennisula you might just have one wall from coast to coast protecting the peninusla (Think Hadrian's Wall seperating England from Scotland).


I'm not sure how many tyranical Great Walled Cities I'll have because the dangers stem from outside of them, and the mortals came together to survive. They can't survive the onslaught outside the walls when they're having issues inside.

Though I think I will throw in one or two where there is someone who rules with an extreme iron fist and no nonsense attitude because "It's my way, or we all die because no other way is right." kind of thing that the players will have to deal with.

I was definetly thinking more along the lines of harsh laws are needed to survive the harsh conditions. So not evil, but a definite lack of freedom. But yeah it's a good idea to limit the number of those places, probably even to just one.


But as for the PC's...I'm making a rule where they HAVE to have been from Cainhurst or the surrounding area of Cainhurst. This is basically to allow the world to be unknown for the most part to the players except the area in the city and nearby.

One way of doing this would be for the PCs parents to have fled the harsh city when the mother was pregnant knowing that the baby was going to have powers and therefore taken. So the PC is still born in Cainhurst, and depending on how forthcoming the parents were about their past and if they are still alive they might not have much info beyond, there's another city off somewhere that's dangerous and I'll need to hide my powers. If the person who helped smuggle them out is still in the city it's also a way to have an NPC that the PCs can trust and who potentially gives them quests.

[Nikushimi]

Since it's fantasy it doesn't really matter, but I'm not sure how feasible it really is to have the walls be so big that it can cover the farmland needed to support the city unless we are talking great wall of china type thing. Since it's a pennisula you might just have one wall from coast to coast protecting the peninusla (Think Hadrian's Wall seperating England from Scotland).

I was definetly thinking more along the lines of harsh laws are needed to survive the harsh conditions. So not evil, but a definite lack of freedom. But yeah it's a good idea to limit the number of those places, probably even to just one.

One way of doing this would be for the PCs parents to have fled the harsh city when the mother was pregnant knowing that the baby was going to have powers and therefore taken. So the PC is still born in Cainhurst, and depending on how forthcoming the parents were about their past and if they are still alive they might not have much info beyond, there's another city off somewhere that's dangerous and I'll need to hide my powers. If the person who helped smuggle them out is still in the city it's also a way to have an NPC that the PCs can trust and who potentially gives them quests.

Think of it this way. You have the base city. Once everything started to happen, it wasn't an instantaneous thing. They basically had time to begin building with the help of magic users as well, especially in the Elven forests. Back before the corruption magic was a bit more common in people, but afterwards people who were born with magic or the ability to even use it became extremely more rare.

So all the people from the surrounding villages (those who survived the initial attacks from the first of the dead) fled towards the capitals and bigger cities which were already walled.

The surrounding land outside the base cities were already farmland in most areas, and so when the initial reports were had the cities knew they had to protect their food source, and thus began building.

It may not be practical by real world logic, but they were able to do it. So yeah, there are LARGE walls that stretch great lengths across the land to surround what fertile lands remained.

The thing about this world is not EVERYTHING is corrupt. Some places are actually still not taken over, so the players may stumble across a part of a forest that is yet left untouched and has prospered. I'd say roughly 80-90% of the world is actually corrupted.

Most cities, aside from some, were left relatively untouched when things happened thanks to the efforts of those who were there at the time, but yeah.

There's only 2 cities right now that have no issue with food, Cainhurst and the Elven Conclave deep within the forests (I have yet to name it), but there will be 3-4 that have no issue with food, and even try to get some food to other surviving cities to help, which is a quest that they might find themselves on.

[Nikushimi]

Sorry for the double post.

I just wanted to say thanks for all the help. If anyone has any other ideas that can help make the world a bit more gritty, let me know!

I appreciate it! Thanks!

[Magicspook]

I really like your setting man. I'd definitely want to play in it!

[Nikushimi]

I really like your setting man. I'd definitely want to play in it!

Thanks! I appreciate it. Hopefully the players at my table will enjoy it as well if they decide they want a more dark and gritty campaign!

I've also thought of combining the two settings to make one that is sort of a mix, but might just end up as a third setting itself. Lol.

I have ideas almost constantly, but it's getting them down and fleshed out that's the issue. Not to mention actually being able to use them.

It may be a while before I run, since we currently have a few campaigns going right now, but nothing wrong with getting the ground work done!