How to beat a Dead Knight ?

[BaseMar]

How to beat a BlackGuard lv 20 / Warrior lv 12 with template of Death Knight ?

Team Composition :

1. Wizard lv 19 : 3 lv Conjurer (U Arcana variant), 10 lvl Master Conjurer, 5 lv FateSPinner, 1 lv Archmage ( I'm playing Mage )
2. DuskBlade 18 lv, 6 lv Druid ( gained from campaign) - his favourite spells are invisibility swift and dimenisonal hoop for escape XD
3. Cleric lv 14, Barbarian lv 1 ( for fury ), Wizard lv 1 (for true strike) with template of wereboar-lycantrop (gaining him 16 S) - he is going to full dps Cleric who's get over 60 Strength.

Books allowed : Complete Series, U Arcane, Spell Compendium

How to beat this boss when i can't get any spell to him ? This Boss can fly.

Or if you will tell me which spell i should prepare against this DeadKnight

[StevenC21]

Chain Gate Solars.

Astral Projection so he can't even hurt you.

Ice Assassin.

Cast some fire resistance spells, Plane Shift to the plane of elemental fire, Wish him there, then plane shift out.

Shapechange into a Chronotyryrn.

Snipe him with a Maximized Shivering Touch.

And that's just the Wizard. This fight is trivial.

[TotallyNotEvil]

That... Doesn't seem super tough?

Buff up like a mofo, and hang back throwing spells like the two apparently very strong meleers go at him.

[Feantar]

Wait. How is he a level 20 blackguard? The class goes up to 10.

[EisenKreutzer]

Wait. How is he a level 20 blackguard? The class goes up to 10.

It’s most likely Pathfinder, and he means the antipaladin.

[AvatarVecna]

I guess it depends on if you finished beating his dead horse first.

[heavyfuel]

@OP

Like others have said, this fight doesn't seem particularly hard. Even if you don't go full char-OP like StevenC21 suggested, you still have plenty of options. Forcecage is a no save, no SR, spell that basically removes a character from the fight unless they have some form of teleport.

The Duskblade should have no trouble breaking through the DK's SR, and can then hit him with a full-attack+disintegrate. You can also use disintegrate. Undead creatures have bad Fort saves on account of having no Con score, so you have a decent chance of dealing massive damage with the spell.

The Cleric can use Holy Word and instakill all the DK's mooks (and maybe even banish the DK himself)

And all of this is done by bringing out the big guns which will make the DM resent you


It’s most likely Pathfinder, and he means the antipaladin.

Death Knight and Duskblade are 3.5 exclusive. It's most likely Fallen Paladin 10 / Blackguard 10, which is basically Blackguard 20

[EisenKreutzer]

Death Knight and Duskblade are 3.5 exclusive. It's most likely Fallen Paladin 10 / Blackguard 10, which is basically Blackguard 20

Could be 3.PF, thats fairly common.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Wait. How is he a level 20 blackguard? The class goes up to 10.

Looks like the boss is level 32, once you hit 20th level you can take epic levels of a 10-level prestige class.

Edit: Or the boss is 20th level total, given the way he noted the other characters.

[BaseMar]

@OP

Like others have said, this fight doesn't seem particularly hard. Even if you don't go full char-OP like StevenC21 suggested, you still have plenty of options. Forcecage is a no save, no SR, spell that basically removes a character from the fight unless they have some form of teleport.

The Duskblade should have no trouble breaking through the DK's SR, and can then hit him with a full-attack+disintegrate. You can also use disintegrate. Undead creatures have bad Fort saves on account of having no Con score, so you have a decent chance of dealing massive damage with the spell.

The Cleric can use Holy Word and instakill all the DK's mooks (and maybe even banish the DK himself)

And all of this is done by bringing out the big guns which will make the DM resent you



Death Knight and Duskblade are 3.5 exclusive. It's most likely Fallen Paladin 10 / Blackguard 10, which is basically Blackguard 20



Unfortunantely im Wizard and my BaB and strength is so low to hit him with disintegrate (Need to use ranged touch attack) - for me i prefer "Sphere of Ultimate Destruction " (Spell COmpendium). This Boss has freaking high saves couse he is ex palladin so he use his Charisma Bonus + Items to boost his saves.

I even think about Mage's Disjuntion to turn off his items.

We can't go op chars like StevenC21 suggested. We only use books which i wrote.

[BaseMar]

That... Doesn't seem super tough?

Buff up like a mofo, and hang back throwing spells like the two apparently very strong meleers go at him.

I don't exacly know what items he has but...

We tried. We died at 1 time with 2 hits against him. He use smite good +20 form lvl + 20 thx to sword and from charge +40 = 80 undodgable dmg what is very problematic + he has a fckin good Strength where 1 hit = about 150 ? and i have only 152 HP and my friends around 250 ?

If this fight is not so hard i would not write this problem here, but we died and we could not do anything against him RLLY. HE has fckin big attributes, massive dmg, and freaking armor which gave him 33 DR / - ( i don't know from where but he has)

[DeTess]

I don't exacly know what items he has but...

We tried. We died at 1 time with 2 hits against him. He use smite good ( +20 + 20 thx to sword and from charge +40 ) what is very problematic + he has a fckin good Strength where 1 hit = about 150 ? and i have only 152 HP and my friends around 250 ?

Then don't stand somewhere he can charge you? Either fly, or put some difficult terrain between you and him?

[BaseMar]

Then don'ts tand somewhere he can charge you? Either fly, or put some difficult terrain between you and him?

he can fly too and im not a problem couse i died last. Problem is that my friends is too weak to tank 2 hits

[BWR]

edit: nevermind.

[DeTess]

he can fly too and im not a problem couse i died last. Problem is that my friends is too weak to tank 2 hits

...you die in two hits too (1 hit if you're unlucky), so I don't really see how this is relevant.

Anyway, he's an ubercharger, so if you want to beat him you either need to do so from far away, or stop him from charging. Force cage should do the trick for that, as would slow (to make you not need to stay as far away) or any other spell that stops him from moving.

[Feantar]

Maybe you can give us a list of spells you know, so we can suggest a tactic?

[StevenC21]

Over half of what I suggested us just in Core.

[Malphegor]

Blackguards are divine casters.

Planar Bind/Spirit Bind yourself a Quell- relatively low hd incorporeal undead that can disconnect a divine caster from the source of their power, they hate clerics especially, evil paladin-adjacent beings are also on their hitlist. Very evil though, but you're using evil creatures for good purposes, that's practically goetic. You might need a lot of Quells to build up the HD, but if it's one single divine caster you've got problems with, a small army of quells might be just what the doctor ordered.

I think the spell should be available, it's the creature that might be tricky to get as it's in Libris mortis.

[heavyfuel]

Over half of what I suggested us just in Core.

Yup, which is why people that think "core only" brings balance back to game get shut down real quick.

Just because it's core doesn't mean it's not char-op

[BaseMar]

Maybe you can give us a list of spells you know, so we can suggest a tactic?

I can use every spell in books which i wrote you + Frostfell

I forgot to tell you a banned schools : Enchantment, Evocation

[BaseMar]

Chain Gate Solars.

Astral Projection so he can't even hurt you.

Ice Assassin.

Cast some fire resistance spells, Plane Shift to the plane of elemental fire, Wish him there, then plane shift out.

Shapechange into a Chronotyryrn.

Snipe him with a Maximized Shivering Touch.

And that's just the Wizard. This fight is trivial.


Plane Shift - touch spell which i die if he resists this and trust me he has over 20 to Will saves
Shivering Touch - Inmunity as undead to reducing atributes
Ice Assasin - banned book (can't use frostburn exept for spell Forstfell )
Wish Spell - i don't think that DM will accept that couse he is not a man who will accept a "1 shot things"
Chronotyryrn - wtf is that ? can't search for that

[DeTess]

@basemar, maybe you should provide some more in-depth information on this foe? So far you've only given us the classes, and based on those alone there is no way he has, for example, a +20 in will saves since that's a bad save for all the classes he has. If you don't then people will continue providing suggestions that you then shoot down with someone the suggester couldn't have known, which will likely stop people from suggesting anything as they feel like it's pointless as you'll just tell them it doesn't work.

[BWR]

Ask your Gm what sort of things you can do with a Wish.
You may not be able to Wish the DK dead, but can you take his sword or other magic items away from him? can you prevent him from using certain abilities? Can you prevent him from hitting you? Can you debuff him?

Would such abilities, if permitted, require him to fail a saving throw? You should be able to justify knowing these things with a high enough Spellcraft, possibly a K: arcana check.

If nothing else you can just disjoin all his magic items. Or. as heavyfuel suggested, use Forcecage. Trap him and put up a Dimensional lock, then kill at leisure.

[BaseMar]

@basemar, maybe you should provide some more in-depth information on this foe? So far you've only given us the classes, and based on those alone there is no way he has, for example, a +20 in will saves since that's a bad save for all the classes he has. If you don't then people will continue providing suggestions that you then shoot down with someone the suggester couldn't have known, which will likely stop people from suggesting anything as they feel like it's pointless as you'll just tell them it doesn't work.

What suggestions, suggestions gave by StevenC21 was turn down only by class of Dead Knight ... and books what i wrote which books are allowed here
Second suggestion was to use Cleric and Duskblade to tank and me to handle him ...
Third was to stop him, and i ask still how ? I gave you spells i gave you books i gave you his stat what i know couse we fought once

The only way u suggest is to use Wish / Planar shift to teleport him to a plane of fire elementals ...

I can say what i know about him it's :

BlackGuard lv 20 / Warrior lv 12 with template of DeadKnight

Fort save : over 20
Will save : over 20
Ref save : over 20

I can use only feats from Series Complete and Player Handbook so to resist my spells are 21+ lvl of spell ...

Strength over 60
Int over 20
Con -
uknown rest

Abilities :

-Aura of evil, detect good, poison use, Dark blessing, smite good 4/day, Sneak attack +3d6,
-Damage Reduction 30/-
-Immunities : cold, electricity, polymorph, mind-affecting effects, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, necromantic effects, and any effect that requires a Fortitude save unless it also works on objects. It is not subject to critical hits, subdual damage, ability damage, ability drain, energy drain, or death from massive damage.
-Darkvision (60-foot range).

Items unknown. All what i know he has sword who gave him a bonus to smite good +40 when he is charging

Dmg ~ 150 dmg per hit ( 80 from smite good )
Hp : ~ 500 HP / HD unknown


Im a Wizard specialize in Conjuration Spells. My banned schools are : Enchantment and Evocation, spellbook is every spell in player handbook / Complete Series / Spell Compendium

Is it enough information ?

[StevenC21]

Your provided statistics are incorrect for a character of those classes and templates.

You also ignored my option of Chain Gating Solars.

[BaseMar]

Your provided statistics are incorrect for a character of those classes and templates.

You also ignored my option of Chain Gating Solars.

Chain Gating Solars - how it work

About statistics why is incorrect ? These are information from our Game Master, he is Game Master he can boost everything he wants. I write what he said to me

[noob]

It’s most likely Pathfinder, and he means the antipaladin.

It could be 3.5 since that creature have epic levels so it could have taken epic blackguard levels.


Chain Gating Solars - how it work

It works the following way
step 1:declare you plan to gate a solar and ask the solar to gate a new solar and so on.
Step 2: the Gm use its angry glare at you then starts throwing books or planets at you(you just have to hope your gm is not a hulking hurler)

[StevenC21]

It is not possible for a character of that level to have statistics like those you described, without severely compromising others.

Your boss has the highest of highs in all areas. This suggests that your DM wants to kill you, and has resorted to cheating.

To chain gate, first, Gate in a solar. Order it to Gate in another solar. Solars have Gate as a SLA. Have that solar gate in another solar. Repeat as desired.

[JNAProductions]

It is not possible for a character of that level to have statistics like those you described, without severely compromising others.

Your boss has the highest of highs in all areas. This suggests that your DM wants to kill you, and has resorted to cheating.

To chain gate, first, Gate in a solar. Order it to Gate in another solar. Solars have Gate as a SLA. Have that solar gate in another solar. Repeat as desired.

Now, being more of a 5E fan than a 3.5 fan, I am 100% on board with a DM modifying monsters or NPCs in ways that aren't perfectly matched by player options. Symmetrical design, in a game like D&D, isn't very good or helpful.

But in this case? The DM doesn't feel like he's modifying things to make for a better fight, or because he can't be bothered to search through 40 books to find a way to make a cool ability happen, or because he DID search through 40 books, found a way to make a cool ability, and realized it came with a lot of unfun baggage. This feels like the DM is just cranking up the numbers to murder the party. And that's not fun.

[BaseMar]

It is not possible for a character of that level to have statistics like those you described, without severely compromising others.

Your boss has the highest of highs in all areas. This suggests that your DM wants to kill you, and has resorted to cheating.

To chain gate, first, Gate in a solar. Order it to Gate in another solar. Solars have Gate as a SLA. Have that solar gate in another solar. Repeat as desired.

Thx, for explaining i will try

And yea... our DM want to kill us couse he gave my teammates some op items and everything he sent to us they killed in 1 turn ... so he boosted so much the boss ( YEA IT'S NOT A FINALL BOSS ). Propaby he has some from Charisma bonus as ex Palladin but nvm we need to kil lthis {scrubbed} and thats why it's problematic

My only items are :

- Vest of Archmagi
- Amulet of Health +6
- Amulet of Dexterity +6
- Healing Belt
- Ring of Protection +5
- Diademof epic Intelligence +12 ( somehow like that )

yea Diadem i get, rest ineed to buy in a game...

[StevenC21]

You could also retrain all your class levels to Psion and hit em with that Ego Whip.

[King of Nowhere]

so, tactics that are not too much char-op.

if this guy deals a lot of damage with charges, have the wizard prepare an action to spam walls in front of him. that shuts down martials pretty well if you have the upper hand in action economy. the rest of you whittle him down from a distance.

Or you can get the cleric to prepare nothing but heal. this guy deals 150 damage per round? great, the cleric heals just as much.

disjunction takes away all his buffs and may take away some item if he tanks a saving throw. considering he has to save for every item, he'll likely tank a few.

Find a way to fly faster than he does and kite him.

finally, if this guy is practically immune to anything you do to it, and he can kill you guys quickly, ask the dm how are you supposed to fight it

[BaseMar]

Now, being more of a 5E fan than a 3.5 fan, I am 100% on board with a DM modifying monsters or NPCs in ways that aren't perfectly matched by player options. Symmetrical design, in a game like D&D, isn't very good or helpful.

But in this case? The DM doesn't feel like he's modifying things to make for a better fight, or because he can't be bothered to search through 40 books to find a way to make a cool ability happen, or because he DID search through 40 books, found a way to make a cool ability, and realized it came with a lot of unfun baggage. This feels like the DM is just cranking up the numbers to murder the party. And that's not fun.

He said it's possible. Maybe it is maybe not with this ex palladin abilities , balckguard and warrior and template of dead knight + items, i don't know

[noob]

Thx, for explaining i will try

And yea... our DM want to kill us couse he gave my teammates some op items and everything he sent to us they killed in 1 turn ... so he boosted so much the boss ( YEA IT'S NOT A FINALL BOSS ). Propaby he has some from Charisma bonus as ex Palladin but nvm we need to kil lthis shi.t and thats why it's problematic

My only items are :

- Vest of Archmagi
- Amulet of Health +6
- Amulet of Dexterity +6
- Healing Belt
- Ring of Protection +5
- Diademof epic Intelligence +12 ( somehow like that )

yea Diadem i get, rest ineed to buy in a game...
if you can get a Shadow Cloak do not hesitate(it can definitively help against melee attacks that deals a ton of damage if you can teleport out of range with it).
A cowl of warding(might occupy a slot you already have filled) is also a generally cool item for it gives freedom of movement and mind blank at once(and everyone loves those boosts).
If you can get a mithril targe enchanted with soulfire it is also a good investment.

But all that is for much later.(since you might not find them and need to ask for someone to craft those)
for spells to prepare if you often have situations where you face a single opponent it might be interesting to use stuff like forcecage if it is an opponent that is not too big or yet maze for potentially gaining a few turns to prepare.(or have either in a scroll if it is rare)

[LordEntrails]

How to beat a Dead Knight?
With a dead horse?

[smasher0404]

My take: the DM may not be intending you to fight this challenge head on. The level difference from what I've read is large enough that by default CR rules would probably be listed as impossible (yes CR is a poor metric for this, but can be useful as a general guideline).

Have you considered not tackling this fight head on? Your character is a master conjurer, you should have some form of long distance teleportation. Get the party out of the immediate engagement and gather allies and resources. Find some sort of mystical artifact to strip the death knight of its defenses. Etc.

[Faily]

- Cast Gate to bring in a Solar. Have the Solar use its Spell-like Ability to cast Gate to bring in another Solar. Rinse and Repeat.

- Use Mordenkainen's Disjunction on his gear.

- Use Wish or Miracle to further nerf.

- Litter the battlefield with Summoned Monsters if he's still coming at you, to stand between you and him.

- Use Force Cage.

- Use Planar Allies. They might even do the job for free if this guy is such a danger to all that is good.

[noob]

- Cast Gate to bring in a Solar. Have the Solar use its Spell-like Ability to cast Gate to bring in another Solar. Rinse and Repeat.

- Use Mordenkainen's Disjunction on his gear.

- Use Wish or Miracle to further nerf.

- Litter the battlefield with Summoned Monsters if he's still coming at you, to stand between you and him.

- Use Force Cage.

- Use Planar Allies. They might even do the job for free if this guy is such a danger to all that is good.

The first of the list already have been mentioned multiples times and I doubt it would be allowed here(or if it is allowed the gm will probably be very angry)
disjunction is indeed a good opening move: stuff like throwing a disjunction then a force cage(mentioned multiple times too) can be terribly efficient at putting all the advantages in the hands of your team.
Wish is a costly spell to use but miracle can simulate lower level debuffs at no extra cost so it might not be a bad idea: you can pick the right debuff for the situation(although undead gets tons of immunities there is some good undead specific debuffs)
Planar allies might still ask for a wage for the simple reason that while your opponent is probably a danger to all that is good there is many other dangers to all that is good that they can already go and fight without being called so it is some sort of "why should we go here and help you first so prove you really need the help" and in fact being very poor could possibly be as much impactful as being ready to give a lot of money but if you have a +12 diadem of intellect then you were not poor.

[StevenC21]

Your DM will be angry if you do anything but girl up into a fetal position and let his "boss" murder you brutally.

[mouser13]

Well make your tanks harder to hit and your self. Dead Knight has no trueseeing far I know so displacement nice.Some times simple things take down bosses. If for some how he as good touch ac. Maybe quicken true strike is useful. Also on of more fun see is chain rod and greater dispel can really turn down his items. As most have petty low caster level and +20 is good enough to take most out. One my fav always usable is ray of clumsiness and escalating-enfeeblement undead are immune to drain and damage but not penalties. Not alot of slow down but it maybe enough to turn the tide make so you and other stay alive with out the dm using the nerf bat.

[BaseMar]

i have a stupid idea. Using time stop at Wizard and then spaming Polymorph any object (his stuff) to change it into fish. And then my teammates will finish him 😂😂😂

[noob]

i have a stupid idea. Using time stop at Wizard and then spaming Polymorph any object (his stuff) to change it into fish. And then my teammates will finish him 😂😂😂

While using time stop you can not do anything to objects a creature is using.
You can however use acid fog 10 times and then forcecage with nested time stops then once time resumes the death knight will take 20d6 damage per turn and be in a forcecage and acid fog restrains movement so even if the death knight succeeds in beating the cage it will still be super slow in the acid fog and will take damage for 3 more turns before exiting and during that time you can keep throwing aoe spells on the death knight.

[magic9mushroom]

Cube of Force, setting 2. His weapons are blocked, your spells aren't. Proceed to murder him at your leisure with attack spells.

There are various ways to get miss chances. Most of them get lolnoped by True Seeing, though (of course, if you can dispel his True Seeing then they work).

Web is a classic, but Freedom of Movement is the lolnope.

If you have Mastery of Shaping as your Archmage ability, AMF excluding yourself + flight makes it very hard for someone without (Ex) flight to get to you.

You should be able to force him to fail a save between Fickle Finger of Fate and Spin Fate (particularly after you've hit him with Dispel). The question is what to hit him with, since he's immune to most of the "gotcha"s. Mass Heal and Implosion would be very nice, but it doesn't sound like you have anyone that can cast those. I guess Split Ray Disintegrate's a possibility, if you have that feat.

Greater Dispel Magic is often better against magic items than Mordenkainen's Disjunction. MDJ allows a save, and while magic items have abysmal saves the BBEG can substitute his own saves for items on his person; GDM does a caster level check, and there's no way out of that. MDJ is better against spell buffs, but this guy doesn't sound like much of a caster.

@people saying his saves are too high: that's probably after items and stuff. Also, remember that he's epic. His base saves should be +20/+12/+12, he's probably got a Cloak of Resistance +5 and +6 enhancement items to all stats except Con (that's well within his treasure + gear budget of 1.35 million GP), so +20 or more for each is entirely plausible. Buff-stripping should make those saves a bit more manageable.

[Aharon]

You can however use acid fog 10 times and then forcecage with nested time stops then once time resumes the death knight will take 20d6 damage per turn.

This one doesn't work.



Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths
In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the best one applies.

[noob]

This one doesn't work.
So the best someone can do is acid fog + incendiary cloud.
Unless with energy substitution it stops counting as the same effect(2d6 sound damage is not 2d6 acid damage)

[mouser13]

With a dead horse?

Or falling dead horse, Timestop setup and have it drop when normal time starts.