Gun Monk? Gunk? Gonk?

[Nagog]

So I've been dabbling in character concepts for a while now, and the idea has crossed my mind and I figured I'll bring it up here: Considering Firearms are now kinda a thing (From what I've heard, Decent into Avernus has firearms of a sort), how viable would a gun-toting Kensei Monk be? I've always liked the idea of a gunslinger, but the basis in Fighter and therefore reliance on heavy armor kinda rubs me wrong. I want a gunslinger that wears no armor (as realistically, plate mail would take some heavy damage from firearms), yet has decent AC. Enough that wielding a shotgun is more viable than being a front line Wizard. So, what sayest the Playground? Gun Monk? Gunk? Gonk?

[NNescio]

I believe the proper term is "Grammaton Cleric".

Or alternatively, a practitioner of Woo-Fatt Gun Fu.

[AvatarVecna]

If you are playing with a version of firearms that are balanced against existing ranged weapons, than it's almost more of a stylistic choice; Kensei can already work with bows and crossbows (mostly) and slings and throwing axes and whatever else ranged weapons you care to name, so why not balanced guns? If you're not using guns that are balanced against standard weapons, you're probably going to be stronger than equal-level monks, altho by how much will depend on how powerful the guns are - and that's kinda just something true of any class with firearm access. If guns in your games are this 4d10 or whatever monstrosity then it doesn't really matter too much if it's being abused by a monk or a fighter or a paladin.

Aesthetically, despite it being mechanically worse given how Kensei works with ranged weapons, dual-wielding John Woo style is the far superior Gun Fu method than just "monk with a shotgun".

[Vessyra]

I played a monk with homebrewed guns, once. With high dex, it wasn't actually that bad, even without being kensai. A decision you will have to make, though: do you want to use bonus action to give the +1d4 on ranged damage, or do you want to shoot, bonus action unarmed strike, then use mobility to rush out of melee?
Basically, are you going full guns, or guns mixed with melee?

[JackPhoenix]

Nothing forces fighters to wear heavy armor... Dex fighters are a thing, though they still wear light armor. And plate armor was developed partially to protect against early firearms... the term bulletproof comes from the practice of shooting at piece of armor and showing the dent to the customer as a proof of its ability to stop the bullet from penetrating.

Now, the main problem with firearms is that they have loading quality that can't be removed through Crossbow Expert, which means they are incompatible with Extra Attack. Monks suffer from this less than fighters, simply because they don't have so many attacks... contrary to AvatarVecna's claim, using two pistols is mechanically superior to using single larger firearm, as you get to shoot twice. You'll have to draw and drop one pistol every turn to have free hand to reload the other and to work around your free object interaction, or take Dual Wielder to be able to draw 2 pistols per turn. As they are ranged weapons, you can't use them with TWF, which means your bonus action will be free for Martial Arts/Flurry of Blows unarmed strikes, Kensei's Shot or Step of the Wind.

If you have access to more advanced firearms that can shoot more than once without loading, bigger guns become a better choice, though fighter would be better than monk with them, due to better support from ranged combat... Archery FS, extra ASIs usable for feats, more attacks and Action Surge. You can even take one level of monk for Unarmored Defense and use the extra ASIs to increase your Wisdom as well as Dex and feats.

[Arkhios]

If your table has rules for firearms in general, I see no reason why you couldn't make a Kensei and select your chosen firearm as one of the Kensei Weapons at 3rd level.

[Witty Username]

Now, the main problem with firearms is that they have loading quality that can't be removed through Crossbow Expert, which means they are incompatible with Extra Attack.

technically, you can use a pair of pistols using one attack each, your dice size will be smaller but it works.

As for kensei gunslinger, if guns are a thing I would allow it, I mean why not play D&D Matrix edition.

[JackPhoenix]

technically, you can use a pair of pistols using one attack each, your dice size will be smaller but it works.

That's... what I wrote in that post.

[Anymage]

Now, the main problem with firearms is that they have loading quality that can't be removed through Crossbow Expert, which means they are incompatible with Extra Attack.

While technically true, I'd guess this is more down to the fact that firearms are an optional add-on than it is a deliberate design choice. A DM who allows guns will likely either allow a gunslinger feat that's functionally identical to Crossbow Expert, or else just expand the feat.

The bigger problem for me, assuming you use the DMG version and don't just use refluffed crossbows, is the cost. DMG firearms, where they list a cost at all (no, you aren't starting with an antimatter rifle) charge a steep premium for their damage dice upgrade. Unless you start at higher level, it'll be a while before you can afford the defining piece of your kit.

[Arkhios]

I mean, assuming that Forgotten Realms is still in a late-medieval era, the firearms are mostly flint-lock guns, so loading them fast is pretty much impossible.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0760/6691/products/2702p.jpg?v=1427142264

FYI, above pistols are loaded from the pipe. First you pour the gunpowder in, then push the bullet in there with the stick (located under the pipe).
Crossbows are much faster to load, even for someone inexperienced.

[CNagy]

Made a pretty awesome sniper monk with Kensei in a 5e Modern homebrew. Obviously, the loading quality is less of an issue with modern firearms. If we're talking Flintlocks, it is harder to load those quickly but taking a page from Musketeers and packaging the appropriate amount of powder and the bullet in a paper packet would significantly reduce the loading time to the point where I'd let a feat negative the loading quality altogether. After all, we're accepting that the feat can allow a fighter to load a heavy crossbow 4 times in 6 seconds.

[Misterwhisper]

When it comes to firearms, and I have always loved the gunslinger type character, especially in Pathfinder, for 5e just reflavor a normal weapon into one.

Ex. A hand crossbow is a pistol, or steampunkish kind of gun. Heavy Crossbow is a rifle.

Same rules and all, just they look much cooler and are loud.

That was always my issue is that I hate the idea of having a loud explosion when I fight.

Maybe, and it is a big maybe, if you are a gnome or something you can create more of a magnetic or magical kind of firing mechanism instead of gunpowder.

Also kind of depends on how the Artificer ends up.