Sublime Chord skill monkey build?

[Tindragon]

My google-fu is weak on this.

Is it out there?

Really looking for a Bard/skill monkey build.

Role is bard buffs, face, skill monkey (traps n such)

[Tindragon]

My google-fu is weak on this.

Is it out there?

Really looking for a Bard/skill monkey build.

Role is bard buffs, face, skill monkey (traps n such)


Let me clarify, doesn't need to be sublime chord.

Looking more to cover Rogue/Factotum skills, ADD Bard buffs...

And keep it Tier 1, or high tier 2.

[Tindragon]

We have played with a pretty sweet Factotum in a part now. But, his build may not be for what this is.

What about, build a Factotum 11 (strip SR is just too fun) and then add Bard to it.

If you could do that with 36 pt build...

What are we looking at for best optimization to get near as possible to tier 1 even if we don't achieve it.

This is the 4th of a 4 member party consisting of

Druidzila (planar shepard)
DMM Quick Cleric/RSoP/SacEx
Wiz/Incantatrix/Archmage

Get it?

Need to cover HIGH level traps, and want the UMD/and why not bard buffs?

[Troacctid]

Sure. You just start with a bard base, dip into a delayed-casting prestige class like virtuoso or ardent dilettante at level 9 or 10, hop into sublime chord, and then switch back to the other prestige class, using it to advance sublime chord. I think you get closest to T1 by doing a theurge build with green whisperer and Fochlucan lyrist.

[Elves]

An alternate option for Fochlucan -- Bardic Tutelage (CoV) is a regional feat that lets you learn any language. Use it to learn Druidic, have your divine side be cleric, and use mystic theurge instead of green whisperer.

Costs a feat + some bardic music advancement but cleric spells are better for you.

[Anthrowhale]

The straightforward approach seems to be Bard 1/Cloistered Cleric 19 taking Able Learner at level 1 and Divine Inspiration at level 3. Maybe add in the Spell Domain for access to any L5- arcane spell. If you want to strip off SR, just combine an Ankh of Acension with a Karma Bead for caster level+8 or look into DMM[Persist] Consumptive Field.

As a cleric, you have access to Divine Inspiration, Guidance of the Avatar, and Surge of Fortune which allow you to make extremely unreasonable skill checks.

[Elves]

Another option is to use urban druid (Dragon 317) to qualify for Heartfire Fanner since it has Perform as a class skill. The Apprentice (Entertainer) feat also gives you both skills required for Heartfire Fanner.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Beguiler 4/ [anything full BAB] 1/ Prestige Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigeBard) 5/ Sublime Chord should be able to do it.

Maybe go with the standard Bard 8/ [two one-level dips] 2/ Sublime Chord, and dip one level of something that gets Trapfinding early and take Able Learner.

[Piggy Knowles]

It doesn't have trapfinding, but for my take on a skill focused sublime chord, you might want to check out http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?583657-Optimization-Showcase-in-the-Playground-Gladys-Knight-and-the-Pips.

For non bard options... Have you considered psionics? That’ll give you some interesting options without stepping on the toes of anyone else in the party. A straight psion with a psychic rogue dip and Able Learner would honestly do the trick. That said, for something a bit different, consider something along the lines of:

Human, Psychic Rogue 1/Psion (telepath) 5/Thrallherd 9/Ebon Saint 5
ACF: Telepathic communication (replace 5th level bonus feat with telepathy at a range of 5’/ML)

I’d probably go with a progression along the lines of:

1 Psychic Rogue1- Able Learner, Darkstalker
2 Telepath1- Inquisitor
3 Telepath2- Combat Expertise
4 Telepath3-
5 Telepath4-
6 Telepath5- Mindsight
7 Thrallherd1-
8 Thrallherd2-
9 Thrallherd3- Improved Feint
10 Ebon Saint1-
11 Ebon Saint2-
12 Ebon Saint3- xxx
13 Thrallherd4-
14 Thrallherd5-
15 Thrallherd6- xxx
16 Thrallherd7-
17 Thrallherd8-
18 Thrallherd9- xxx
19 Ebon Saint4-
20 Ebon Saint5-

While you won’t have high base skill points per level, the fact that you’re extremely Int-focused and a human means you should still be able to keep things pretty high, and you can use your powers to augment this further. With a starting Int of 18, you shouldn’t have an issue keeping both social skills and trap-related skills all maxed.

Ebon Saint might seem like an odd option, but it has an incredibly unique (and potentially campaign-breaking) ability: mind interrogation. On a successful dire strike, you can spend four PP to immediately know the answer to any single question (assuming the target knows the answer). There’s no save and no way to avoid this; if you can hit them unaware and deal damage, you can literally find out anything you want, diplomacy checks be damned. The rest of the levels are OK, giving you some flavorful options and having higher skill points than a standard psion, but really it’s all about mind interrogation.

Thrallherd is a natural fit for any telepath, giving you an improved version of leadership, a couple of decent powers known and some free augments for the cost of a level of manifesting. Its pre-req feat is also underrated: a +10 bonus to sense motive is nothing to sneeze at for a face.

For your last three feats, you can never going wrong with Expanded Knowledge. Other good options include Linked Power and Practiced Manifester, or possibly consider Master Manipulator for more social manipulation alongside Inquisitor.

As for powers, there are a lot of great ones for a social rogue: conceal thoughts, control sound, detect hostile intent, psionic glibness, faint memory, time hop, touchsight, psionic modify memory, false sensory input, mind probe, mind switch, mass cloud mind, etc. Plus you automatically should have all the charm/dominate powers, with free augments on them as well, via Thrallherd. You can focus the rest on a mix of utility and offensive options.

The net result should be trapfinding, 9th-level powers, above-average skills, Mindsight and touchsight and detect hostile intent for scouting, some awesome interrogation options and a thrall and a bunch of followers. Might not be the world’s most powerful build, but it should give you enough toys to play with the big boys while still getting a lot of unique and fun abilities.

[Tindragon]

Thanks for all of these folks!

Will look at all of them, sorry didn't get back to this sooner, work, kids, life...

Fantastic!

I've been looking at TRYING to do a Factotum 8/ bard build a little bit as well. Extra actions, + support buffs n such.

See if any of these can mix into that and make something worthwhile.

[bean illus]

Thanks for all of these folks!

Will look at all of them, sorry didn't get back to this sooner, work, kids, life...

Fantastic!

I've been looking at TRYING to do a Factotum 8/ bard build a little bit as well. Extra actions, + support buffs n such.

See if any of these can mix into that and make something worthwhile.

You've said facto a few times, but you also said T1-T2. The problem is facto doesn't T-2 well.

I'm unclear as to which level we're building for, but the problem with facto 8 and 11 is ... what to do with extra actions and overcome spell resistance?

... and there are other ways to do these things (T1).

But there are some Facto builds that come close. Unfortunately facto is feat STARVED. Font of Inspiration is a necessity and I reccomend no less than 3.

There are also other ways to get auras. Marshal, draconic, etc. But T1 party members don't need them, and auras work best in larger groups ...

Frankly, chameleon is the known plug for facto. Chameleon's rapid spell level advancement patches facto, and at level 7 Double Aptitude is outrageous.
.. There's a great guide to chameleon spell access which helps find spells of higher level, or unique access.

So ...
Facto 8/ chameleon 7/ +5 stuff (+cham or marshal or...

Facto 11/ cham 7/ +2 other stuff (abjurant jaunt battle wizard 1, etc

Facto 11 / cham 9 ... 6th level spells from any list approaches T2. You also have 5th level SLAs, a floating feat, and skill access like an uzi.

Remember, complicated builds often start slow, and may be weak during certain levels. Sometimes simpler is best, and get that higher level skill access, which you need.

[Bphill561]

An alternate option for Fochlucan -- Bardic Tutelage (CoV) is a regional feat that lets you learn any language. Use it to learn Druidic, have your divine side be cleric, and use mystic theurge instead of green whisperer.

Costs a feat + some bardic music advancement but cleric spells are better for you.

This is from Forgotten Realms if you are allowed to use this. It is not actually a feat, but a region background. All characters from forgotten realms select a region they are from. Player's Guide to Faerun details this. Your region allows access to certain new regional feats and determines your starting equipment. Bardic tutelage is a region option and it does not require any feats, so it is even better than previously described.

[Elves]

This is from Forgotten Realms if you are allowed to use this. It is not actually a feat, but a region background. All characters from forgotten realms select a region they are from. Player's Guide to Faerun details this. Your region allows access to certain new regional feats and determines your starting equipment. Bardic tutelage is a region option and it does not require any feats, so it is even better than previously described.

Oh, you're right. Disappointing. I guess it's at least easy to abstract out of FR if you're for some reason using regional backgrounds but not playing FR.

[Tindragon]

Thoughts on this?

Fact 8/Bard 6/Sub Chord 6. Human -Able Learner.
36pt build
@ 1st

S 8
D 14
C 14
I 16
W 12
Ch 16

Tier 1, no. Tier 2, I think close enough for what we're doing here.

Put in with :

Druidzila (planar shepard)
DMM Quick Cleric/RSoP/SacEx
Wiz/Incantatrix/Archmage

this PC just does insane level traps that need done. UMD and buffs for support. Just to add #s to summoned tanks, and druidzilla in combat.


I mean, with the 1st 3, what else would a party actually need?

Figuring this is all kicking off at 8th-10th level. If/when it happens...

[Anthrowhale]

Thoughts on this?

Fact 8/Bard 6/Sub Chord 6. Human -Able Learner.
...

Tier 1, no. Tier 2, I think close enough for what we're doing here.
...
Figuring this is all kicking off at 8th-10th level. If/when it happens...
This isn't Tier 2 at level 8-10.

Human Bard 1/Cloistered Cleric 19 with Able Learner and Divine Inspiration still seems pretty good to me. Take the Spell domain and use the ACF to make it spontaneous, so you can cast Improvisation, Divine Insight, Guidance of the Avatar, and Surge of Fortune repeatedly throughout the day to make epic skill checks.