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View Full Version : Optimization Which of these 3 Sorcadin builds is the strongest?



OgataiKhan
2019-10-30, 07:03 AM
I'm trying to find out how to build the best possible Sorcadin (out of curiosity, I don't expect to play one any time soon), and I'd like to know your opinion.

Build 1: Half Elf Vengeance Paladin 6/Hexblade 1/Shadow Sorcerer 13
Offence-oriented. Triple advantage with Elven Accuracy, you obtain advantage with your Channel Divnity or your Sorcerer's Darkness, you also have access to the Hound of Ill Omens + Hold Person/Monster combo for guaranteed criticals.
Hexblade makes us Cha-SAD and extends our critical range.
ASI: Elven Accuracy (+1 Cha), +2 Cha, War Caster, Resilient Con.

Build 2: Half Elf Ancients Paladin 7/Hexblade 1/Shadow Sorcerer 12
As above, but without the Channel Divinity advantage, so our Elven Accuracy starts working pretty late. In exchange we get the very strong Aura of Warding.

Build 3: VHuman Ancients Paladin 7/Divine Soul Sorcerer 13
We give up effectiveness against single targets in exchange for Aura of Warding, Guidance, Favored by the Gods, and Spirit Guardians.
We also give up the Hexblade, which means we'll have to raise our Str the old fashioned way and won't have enough ASI to bring it to 20. On the other hand, we gain the ability to use Shadow Blade for extra damage against single targets.
ASI: Resilient Con, +2 Cha, +2 Cha, +2 Str, War Caster

Now, Build 3 is certainly the most effective at level 20 due to Conjure Celestial, which is broken, but what about all the other levels? Which build would you rather play?

CheddarChampion
2019-10-30, 09:28 AM
I'd go with build #2.
15/10/15/8/10/17 to start
Paladin 1
Hexblade 1
Paladin +1
Sorcerer 4
Paladin +5
Sorcerer +X

But I would only use this in a game that you start at level 7 or higher.

Reasoning for the build choice:
Vs build #1 - CD: Vow of Emnity is only good for one enemy per short rest. It competes with spells you can cast as a bonus action and with Hexblade's curse for action economy. YMMV, in my experience with short rest in 5e it'll take a while before you get it back.

3 levels in Shadow Sorcerer gets you a good (if selfish) form of advantage as a bonus action IIRC. Shadow Blade can get you advantage in the right conditions. Greater Invisibility gives you advantage. Hold Person/Monster... is different but it still substitutes. All of these options reduce the need for CD:VoE.

13 levels in Sorcerer will get you to learn 7th level spells though, and you do learn them sooner...

Vs build #3 - I can't think of any cleric spells that would be super useful to you. There are powerful ones, sure, but you can get fireball for blasting, paladin spells for healing, and the spells listed above for buffs. It does get the +2d4 to a roll but if your accuracy and saves are already high... Empowered healing isn't super useful either. OTOH your casting progression is faster...

Compared this to being Cha-SAD, having the hound (a no concentration, bonus action, debuffing summon), darkness you can see through, and the Cha save to not drop to 0 HP. You'll get +16 to that save eventually? The turnaround is with conjure celestial as you say, but that's at level 20...

Warlush
2019-10-30, 11:07 AM
#3. It makes the most sense thematically IMhO, it could use any alignment, and most importantly it doesn't use any Hexblade cheese. You are actually big and strong. If you wanna grab a silly noble by the throat to get your point across, throw a cask of ale across a tavern, whatever, you are an actual badass. And the amazing amounts of damage and support the cleric spells deliver are great.

sithlordnergal
2019-10-30, 01:20 PM
I can't think of any cleric spells that would be super useful to you. There are powerful ones, sure, but you can get fireball for blasting, paladin spells for healing, and the spells listed above for buffs. It does get the +2d4 to a roll but if your accuracy and saves are already high... Empowered healing isn't super useful either. OTOH your casting progression is faster...

Compared this to being Cha-SAD, having the hound (a no concentration, bonus action, debuffing summon), darkness you can see through, and the Cha save to not drop to 0 HP. You'll get +16 to that save eventually? The turnaround is with conjure celestial as you say, but that's at level 20...

You forget, the Cleric list has spells like Spirit Guardians, Calm Emotions, Guiding Bolt, Mass Healing Word, Greater Restoration, and Conjure Elemental on top of the standard Sorcerer spells like Fireball and such.

I actually find Darkness kind of fall off due to creatures having things like Tremorsense, Truesight, Blindsight, ect.

Personally, I'd go for Ancients/Divine Soul build. Not only do you get the Cleric, Sorcerer, and Paladin spell lists, but you also become insanely good against spell casters due to your Auras. Finally, Favored by the Gods is highly useful in clutch situations. You might not need it often, but sometimes that little 2d4 can make the difference. Just remember, you are allowed to change out the one spell you get after choosing your affinity.

bid
2019-10-31, 08:40 PM
Build 3: VHuman Ancients Paladin 7/Divine Soul Sorcerer 13
We give up effectiveness against single targets in exchange for Aura of Warding, Guidance, Favored by the Gods, and Spirit Guardians.
We also give up the Hexblade, which means we'll have to raise our Str the old fashioned way and won't have enough ASI to bring it to 20. On the other hand, we gain the ability to use Shadow Blade for extra damage against single targets.
ASI: Resilient Con, +2 Cha, +2 Cha, +2 Str, War Caster
Build 3, but half-elf. I'd rather start with +2 Cha than either feat.

Resilient(Con) is very nice around level 12, but a mere +2 to saves doesn't cut it earlier.

Chugger
2019-11-01, 06:45 AM
Shadowblade grants advantage if in darkness or low light iirc