How important is coffee?

[lylsyly]

https://scontent-mia3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14021727_575853552598422_4727161093931821579_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQmb-vJAsSADym69n_TbTWw90VoTsTaMAh8Uy1hlAiWQyziRQ7KCRcH cB_xY4_pJv6s&_nc_ht=scontent-mia3-1.xx&oh=c4d707b696a3a855ba60e7115a8e4627&oe=5E60E565

[danzibr]

I find this comical, but the stats are all wrong.

Plus to concentration is good. Could also do int.

But penalty when empty? That’s when you drank all of it.

Also... I came here to say I didn’t drink much coffee before working night shift, but now at least 2 cups per day (night???) is mandatory.

[snowblizz]

But penalty when empty? That’s when you drank all of it.


It really should be a cursed item causing all those penalties while empty.

One of the sadder realisations is the documentary that noted that coffe only takes you back to normal after awhile. It doesn't actually improve your stats as it were.

[Anonymouswizard]

One of the sadder realisations is the documentary that noted that coffe only takes you back to normal after awhile. It doesn't actually improve your stats as it were.

Yeah, while I've found it works well in the early morning I'm not sure if that's because it's actually helping out because by the time I've drunk a cup of coffee I've properly woken up on my own. But vital at the end of the afternoon to push you through that last bit of work.

Heck, I'll sometimes allow coffee consumption in games to negate the first level of fatigue penalties for a while (couple of in game hours), despite not letting it give you any bonus against increasing fatigue. Tea doesn't do that though, it just gives +4 Charisma when drunk from a china teacup.

[JeenLeen]

On a semi-serious note, I reckon it's had a lot of impact on trade and farming, so fairly important historically. And I can see it as a modifier in games; and, indeed, some games have rules for caffeine consumption.

In real life, ...well, certainty it is a large industry and a lot of folk use it.


But vital at the end of the afternoon to push you through that last bit of work.

I've stopped drinking coffee in the morning, but I usually get a cup between 1-3 pm for that purpose. About that time now, actually.

[snowblizz]

Basically, studies showed, if you are a habitual coffe drinker, that cup only takes you to a normal level you'd have had if you didn't drink coffee.

Which means that coffe cup in the worning that wakes us up, gets us to the exact same place a non-drinker already was.

[FinnLassie]

Coffee doesn't give you energy, it just makes your tired-o-meter stop 'til ya drop.

Nevertheless, coffee is good. I've quit drinking it daily, though, and it's mostly a social thing.

[sktarq]

Basically legal cocaine-equivilant solution with a vile taste in my opinion but to each their own.

[Bartmanhomer]

I love flavor kind such as Wild Mountain Blueberry and Vermont Country Blend.

[FinnLassie]

Basically legal cocaine-equivilant solution with a vile taste in my opinion but to each their own.

A friend of mine says that coffee tastes like earth, and that's something I can't deny.

[Scarlet Knight]

Coffee: It's Maaaaaagic!

https://cdn.onebauer.media/one/empire-images/features/560ec25e50e6c513721c3cc6/dr-strange-comic.jpg?quality=50&width=1000&ratio=1-1&resizeStyle=aspectfit&format=jpg

[Bartmanhomer]

I know there's a coffee meme somewhere on the internet:

Imagine when you're that person drinking the first cup of coffee you realize you crash an hour later. :biggrin:

[Peelee]

Basically legal cocaine-equivilant solution with a vile taste in my opinion but to each their own.

I don't know if I'd call hot bean water a cocaine equivalent. I do think people put way too much emphasis on it, though.

[Anonymouswizard]

I don't know if I'd call hot bean water a cocaine equivalent. I do think people put way too much emphasis on it, though.

True, it's no hot leaf juice.

[Peelee]

True, it's no hot leaf juice.

Hot leaf water. You're confusing that last part with fruit water.

[Knaight]

I don't know if I'd call hot bean water a cocaine equivalent. I do think people put way too much emphasis on it, though.

Speaking as someone who knows several former cocaine users, I can confirm that they're not remotely equivalent.

[sktarq]

I don't know if I'd call hot bean water a cocaine equivalent. I do think people put way too much emphasis on it, though.

Give powder caffeine to a cocaine addict. When this has been done in the past in legal tests they have been very happy....thus I'll say fruit pit water and coca leaf tea (like you'd find in Peru/Bolivia) are pretty much similar in many ways (though not for altitude issues apparently).

As for it tasting like earth....I'd actually disagree. as I like Peat-y whiskeys, Russian Tea, and various tubers also called "earthy" and I find limited to no similarity to them...it does kinda remind me of the slime that forms on too-old veggies (something high and sharp like broccoli or parsnip) if you somehow lit it on fire. . .

[Scarlet Knight]

May I add to the debate:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/64/7a/e8/647ae86fc29eb2ba68e3a7cf9645d94c.jpg

[Spore]

I have tried weeks without coffee, I drink it regularly, (and a tad too much to be honest). But it helps alleviate the negatives of a shifting work schedule, if you time your "crashes" right.


Basically, studies showed, if you are a habitual coffe drinker, that cup only takes you to a normal level you'd have had if you didn't drink coffee.

Which means that coffe cup in the worning that wakes us up, gets us to the exact same place a non-drinker already was.

I agree but you can "work around" this by allowing your caffeine level to drop, and by manually monitoring your sleep schedule (as in: Don't let your feeling of tiredness do the work).

In a week of early shifts (up a 4am, at work at 6am), I drink two double cups with a tad of milk to get myself slowly to a level where I can concentrate enough to handle money. At work, I have my break at 9, where I drink a cup of cappuccino (a third of espresso), and then I let the caffeine peter out.

After my shift is done, I usually take a nap from 3-5pm to catch up on sleep because I usually go to bed at 11pm which nets only 5 hours of sleep.


Basically legal cocaine-equivilant solution with a vile taste in my opinion but to each their own.

I really don't agree. Sure it is a legal drug (at least to me), but I am pretty sure you never tasted actual GOOD coffee. It took me a while to get "used" to it, started off with a bad coffee machine. I needed it in college to postpone my crash after 10 hours of uni, to finish my protocols for chemistry labs; usually due at the end of semester but if you don't do them immediately you have a huge backlog and also NO fricking idea what you did in the lab. So I needed to stay awake from 10pm-1 am on a bad day.

My point being that coffee can be a tool, but it can also be a luxury food/drink. I have a small coffee machine with a grinder for whole beans now (ground up coffee oxidizes really quickly, loosing much of its flavor). A pot of coffee on a heater pad gets bitter really fast. And I won't start on the ABOMINATIONS chains like Starbuck's create from coffee, liquid sugar and aroma.

Those are the real frankenbeverages (they're great if you want a big dessert but have no time to eat it tho).


I love flavor kind such as Wild Mountain Blueberry and Vermont Country Blend.

These sound like an energy drink brand and a variation of tobacco :smallbiggrin:

[Bartmanhomer]

These sound like an energy drink brand and a variation of tobacco :smallbiggrin:
It isn't. It's a Keurig brand. :smile:

[Peelee]

I am pretty sure you never tasted actual GOOD coffee.

Does every food someone doesn't like mean they just haven't had a GOOD version of that food? Or is coffee special?

[JNAProductions]

May I add to the debate:

-Image Snipped-

I love it. Perfect.

[Knaight]

Does every food someone doesn't like mean they just haven't had a GOOD version of that food? Or is coffee special?
I'm largely with you here, but to an extent coffee is special - it's a food where the worse versions are extremely prevalent, but which doesn't have obvious quality markers to the extent of, say, canned vs. frozen vs. fresh fruit. I say this as someone who is emphatically not a coffee snob and will happily drink the bad stuff.

[Peelee]

I'm largely with you here, but to an extent coffee is special - it's a food where the worse versions are extremely prevalent, but which doesn't have obvious quality markers to the extent of, say, canned vs. frozen vs. fresh fruit. I say this as someone who is emphatically not a coffee snob and will happily drink the bad stuff.

As an avid disliker of coffee, I'll totally buy that. It's sheer prevalence means there will totally be a massive good-bad spectrum. Pizza would be in a similar category, I'd think.

[Spore]

Does every food someone doesn't like mean they just haven't had a GOOD version of that food? Or is coffee special?

There is a lot that can go wrong with coffee.

1) Unripe coffee beans or beans gone bad. A single bean is enough to ruin a pound of coffee. Similarly rancid oil from the roasting process. You know the cup when you taste it. Incredibly seldom tho.

2) Oxidized ground coffee. Becomes stale and bland. Usually people then either overdose the powder to get more taste, but the whole batch becomes incredibly bitter as a result.

3) Dirty and old machines. There is a reason most commercial machines have a daily cleaning process, a monthly descaling and a yearly maintenance. Coffee oil is grimey, like any oil, it spoils after a time. Now imagine the innards of an office coffee machine providing at least a few pots of coffee daily. Yuck!

4) Water hardness. I live in a place with very hard water. If it weren't for my descaling filter, my coffee would SUCK majorly. I have to descale monthly (even though I only get about 4 cups a day) and it is recommended to me to use bottled water for the machine (where I dont do it and simply use the public water that is, despite being harder, is much better for the environment). I am unsure if situations like Flint, Michigan are similar in other states.

But I can totally understand that one does not drink coffee for it should not be consumed but enjoyed. Sorry if I went overboard on it, but I manage a small bakery that has a professional machine, and boooooy did many things go wrong in the past 7 years with just it. Gaskets starting to leak (and cause ground powder to seep into customers cups), a major descaling venture where the pressure chamber of the machine was relieved of 20 pounds of limescale, the occasional bad batch of coffee (it is still a plant, you can get a "bad season" of coffee) and my coworkers ruining almost any coffee specialty (too much milk in the Latte Macchiato, spoiled milk in a cappuccino, they even managed to ruin espressos).

[danzibr]

This thread reminds me...

While I do drink a fair amount of coffee, I believe I’ve never had good coffee. Just stuff from Walmart and Starbucks and Dunkin’ Donuts.

[Bartmanhomer]

I know there was a food debate or food war in this forum that somebody mentioned and it all ended by name-calling which has gotten out of hand.

[lil diddle]

I've never had a cup of coffee; tasted some but never was very good, and I (like to think I) function just fine.

[sktarq]

I really don't agree. Sure it is a legal drug (at least to me), but I am pretty sure you never tasted actual GOOD coffee. It took me a while to get "used" to it, started off with a bad coffee machine. I needed it in college to postpone my crash after 10 hours of uni, to finish my protocols for chemistry labs; usually due at the end of semester but if you don't do them immediately you have a huge backlog and also NO fricking idea what you did in the lab. So I needed to stay awake from 10pm-1 am on a bad day.

My point being that coffee can be a tool, but it can also be a luxury food/drink. I have a small coffee machine with a grinder for whole beans now (ground up coffee oxidizes really quickly, loosing much of its flavor). A pot of coffee on a heater pad gets bitter really fast. And I won't start on the ABOMINATIONS chains like Starbuck's create from coffee, liquid sugar and aroma.

Those are the real frankenbeverages (they're great if you want a big dessert but have no time to eat it tho).

Firstly I very much have had good coffee. Too "Good". The above idea (from that admittedly funny image) that coffee drinkers look at tea drinkers as snobs seems utterly ridiculous to me since the people who try to get me to drink coffee are the type who have won awards for their grinding/blending,barista skills...(and they know their stuff...they were able to replicate my exes favorite blend from SF from a some descriptions and then re-jigger it to work from the machine she had at home better..so obviously skilled but just in a field I find repellent)...and those fools introduced me to coffee graders that work with our local roasting houses and still didn't like their picks (though I will say they were far far better).
So yeah ... I just don't like the taste of coffee.

And while these types really do seem to enjoy it as an experience (which I totally support) I find the vast majority just drink it as a legal stimulant and are chasing the chemical effect....I have the same feelings toward those who drink alcoholic beverages of foul taste. I know there are exceptionally fine tequilas and horrible ones, but I have had the full range and don't like any of them. But if somebody tells me BEER, or TEQUILA is super-important in their life and has giant containers for it proclaiming it a key stat boosting whatever...I'm going to express concern and probably start looking for signs of alcoholism. Thusly the "coffee is super important" (and not because is it a social ritual that one finds a powerful bonding experience or a powerful way to connect with ones senses and personal awareness) then I'm going to look at someone the same way.

Also the taste puts me off of coffee as an ingredient (classical meat treatments or desserts). I wish I did like the taste. It would be something more in life to enjoy and revel in. Those desserts would bring me joy instead of cringing. And I would like more joy if I could.

P.S. I find sprinkles in coca leaves a slight chalky layer in the drink. Hard or gelatinous candies seem to mix better IME unless your mix already contains emulsifiers (which usually means its not of high quality)....personally I like a candy cane stir-stick.

[Jay R]

"A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems."
-- Alfréd Rényi (often erroneously attributed to Paul Erdős)

[Peelee]

"A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems."
-- Alfréd Rényi (often erroneously attributed to Paul Erdős)
"I can fix that."
-- Wolfgang Pauli

[Altheus]

Surprised no-one has dropped this yet.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed
The hands develop shakes, the shakes become a warning
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

[Spore]

But if somebody tells me BEER, or TEQUILA is super-important in their life and has giant containers for it proclaiming it a key stat boosting whatever...I'm going to express concern and probably start looking for signs of alcoholism.

I don't want to tell you how to live your life but maybe you would enjoy being a bit less judgmental against groups of people who just LIKE stuff. I can see the reasoning and the parallels behind it.

I have even tried some very good whiskey and rum, and the only thing it did do is remove the burning aftertaste of it, so I kinda get where you get your opinion from. And I drink my coffee more habitual than anything else (it's a ritual kind of thing). In general I feel the whole "food/drink x or y has won prize z" to be utterly ridiculous.

That just means it tasted well for some weird judge who is so far removed from my culinary world that said price won't even mean anything to me. Because ultimatively tastes are subjective and not quantifiable (except for a chemist with concentrations of aromatic components of course but that is a different topic). And with my tiny rant here I don't want to say you should not openly judge people for enjoying things. I realize you are probably well adjusted enough not to yell at coffee shop customers. What I ask of you is calmly ask yourself if that judgment is justified in your mind.

I have a similar mental blockade when it comes to people who "enjoy food" but are obviously overeating a lot. If you'd love good food so much you would not look this way. But this is a generalization just like your "coffee is a tool, not a tasty beverage" bit.

[Scarlet Knight]

... But if somebody tells me BEER, or TEQUILA is super-important in their life and has giant containers for it proclaiming it a key stat boosting whatever...I'm going to express concern and probably start looking for signs of alcoholism.


I understand. Now, if it was RUM, BEER, or TEQUILA in giant containers then you've just wandered into some Parrotheads at a Buffett concert.:smallcool:

Tomorrow is Sunday and I think life is so wonderful when I've got my newspaper, hot coffee, and the time to enjoy both.

[Palanan]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet:


Girl Genius: Coffee's Ready! (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070618)

Be sure to read the next three pages, for the full Heterodyne coffee experience.

[Bartmanhomer]

We should have a coffee tournament. :smile:

[Brother Oni]

Basically, studies showed, if you are a habitual coffe drinker, that cup only takes you to a normal level you'd have had if you didn't drink coffee.

Which means that coffe cup in the worning that wakes us up, gets us to the exact same place a non-drinker already was.

Is that including normalisation for sleep levels?

I can see a habitual coffee drinker on 6 hrs sleep being on par with a normal fully rested person (after their first cup of course).

Allow the normal person only 6 hrs sleep and there should be a performance drop in comparison.

Taking it to a more extreme, allow both only 4 hrs sleep and while the coffee drinker will be almost be at normal performance with a few extra cups, the normal person won't be great.

[Spore]

If you start your sentence with "studies showed" and don't link a study, your argument is incomplete.

Secondly, with my understanding of biochemistry, the effect you told us about is for people who have constantly caffeine in their system which is about 4-6 hours (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321784.php). So if you space out a coffee with every meal (or even just breakfast and "tea time"/coffee time you reduce its effect.

But without any linked studies, the magnitude of said reduction in effect is called into question. I've had days with 3-4 hours of sleep and the drop in performance was absolutely visible after about 3 hours. I drank about 8ish coffees to stay awake but they relatively quickly dont do anything.

[sktarq]

I don't want to tell you how to live your life but maybe you would enjoy being a bit less judgmental against groups of people who just LIKE stuff. I can see the reasoning and the parallels behind it.
.... What I ask of you is calmly ask yourself if that judgment is justified in your mind.

i think it is absolutely justified. Mostly because I don't judge people for liking something. Or even that it is important to them personally (those super-into-coffee types who grade and compete over it, its important to them for example-and actually I laud them for it). Mostly they just really enjoy something and like to share that enjoyment. I have even found versions of things I used to only dislike through such people-they know the oddities, what to pick if you dislike X, Y, or Z, or how to mix one thing with another to achieve something new. Hell I hang out at coffee shops because i tend to like the humans that like the sort of place that hires such people as staff which is why they got into trying to find a coffee I'd like and why I tried the stuff they offered.

Its when people declare it IMPORTANT (outside of say a sociological or economic discussion) and the implied push that I should that I snarl at. It is generalization that take umbrage at. To me that opening pick is ...pushy. There can be a real "and if you disagree you're wrong" attitude that goes with it.

Admittedly having coffee, tequila, Sriracha , and Energy drinks (Red Bull and Monster) all having been pushed hard at me socially with my "No thank you I don't personally like X" being taken as a personal attack may have shaped this. Specifically those who tended to have the X is IMPORTANT attitude also were much more likely, disproportionately so, to take my personal dislike of their favored consumable as an attack on their own person. Between that an enough exposure to implied normalization of how addicts tend to see the world (that everyone has a full bottle whenever they drink for example) ... a bias may well have formed.

It threat was "How Great is Coffee" I'd have different feelings about it.

[Brother Oni]

But without any linked studies, the magnitude of said reduction in effect is called into question. I've had days with 3-4 hours of sleep and the drop in performance was absolutely visible after about 3 hours. I drank about 8ish coffees to stay awake but they relatively quickly dont do anything.

I'd think that there are more variables in play here, like body weight, caffeine sensitivity and dosage form.

Assuming 1 teaspoon of instant coffee per serving, that's ~40mg of caffeine. 8 x 40 = 320 mg of caffeine, which is a reasonable amount.

My personal daily intake is around 300 mg - if I'm stressed or don't have time to sleep, I've gone as high as 500 mg during a 12 hr shift*, but then I'm feeling like I'm running on pure electricity with a resting heart rate of around 110 bpm.

This was with coffee and energy drinks though - taking the same dose of caffeine as Proplus pills just puts me to sleep, so I'm sure there's some absorption factor going on as well..


*Please don't do this unless you have no choice. The recommend guidance is no more than 6 mg caffeine per kg of body weight and 500 mg is still within my personal safety limits and (quite high) caffeine tolerance levels.

[snowblizz]

Is that including normalisation for sleep levels?

I can see a habitual coffee drinker on 6 hrs sleep being on par with a normal fully rested person (after their first cup of course).

Allow the normal person only 6 hrs sleep and there should be a performance drop in comparison.

Taking it to a more extreme, allow both only 4 hrs sleep and while the coffee drinker will be almost be at normal performance with a few extra cups, the normal person won't be great.

It wasn't my study. I don't remember the specifics. I only remember the main point made. It was brought up in some documentary or other on tv. One of those BBC thisishowstuff/bodyworks or something.
{Scrubbed}

[Kiljori]

How important is coffee?

:smallfurious:I'll cut out your heretic tongue for questioning the value of the Dark Brew Lord!:smallfurious:

[Spore]

So I took this thread as inspiration to cut my coffee usage down a bit. And it improves my overall fitness. My work is tiring, so I tend to abuse the substance more than just enjoying it. But it has a weird effect on my blood sugar levels (I assume I don't measure). I could resist sweet cravings a lot better this week when I only drank a double cup for breakfast (along with having the time to actually eat).

So I guess coffee is not so much important as it is a stimulant that needs to be actively monitored.

[mrgrtt123]

How important is coffee?

I can't survive a day without a cup of coffee. :smallcool:

[rcom12]

How important is coffee?

I can't survive a day without a cup of coffee. :smallcool:
I try to limit myself to three cups of coffee a day,can't be less.

[thirsting]

So I took this thread as inspiration to cut my coffee usage down a bit. --

Cutting down on coffee may help cutting down on other cravings? I'm going to use you as my inspiration and try the same.

[snowblizz]

Cutting down on coffee may help cutting down on other cravings? I'm going to use you as my inspiration and try the same.

I for one have a 50/50 chance of grabbing something sweet with my coffee. And if I can't find something am seriously annoyed I don't have any.

[Brother Oni]

I for one have a 50/50 chance of grabbing something sweet with my coffee. And if I can't find something am seriously annoyed I don't have any.

Huh. I use coffee as an appetite suppressant so that I'm not tempted to grab something extra.

[snowblizz]

Sugar brings out the flavour of coffee. Or at least stimulates/reinvigorates the tastebuds somehow.

I'm once again reminded of one of the multitude of documentaries I've seen but can't really source, showing an experiment where just the raw flavour didn't provide any taste for people until they were also given sugar. ANother exampel they gave was that chewing gum doens't lose it's taste, when you stop tasting it you've extracted the sugar (or substitute) from it. If you add some tablesugar eg the gum starts tasting again. It's kinda weird, but works.


It's largely a learned behaviour for me I guess, but I tend to associated coffe with food. Breakfast + bun on weekends. Coffee after lunch. Coffee with something on coffeebreaks sometimes.

If I drink coffee on an empty stomach I get more hungry really. Not immediately, but quite soon after.

[Spore]

Sugar and fat enhance tastes, yes.

[Bartmanhomer]

Coffee Tiara Magic! :biggrin:

[The Fury]

My Coffee Story, by The Fury

The other day I saw a pot with free coffee so I went over and poured myself a cup. There was sugar, cream and various other things next to the pot of course. I just ignored them and put the lid back on my travel mug. When the woman standing next to me asked, "You don't put anything in your coffee?"

"I don't, no."

"Doesn't preferring black coffee mean you have an unpleasant personality?"

"...It does?"

Someone else chimed in, "I think I read something about how mentally ill people prefer black coffee."

I was sort of offended for a split second, then it occurred to me, that those statements might not be generally true, they were true for me. I just ended the conversation with "...Yep. Y'all got me pegged."

[EmmaQ]

I recently found out that caffeine promotes weight loss. Therefore, it is better to drink plain black coffee without milk. Coffee also adds energy. But coffee negatively affects the heart :smallwink:

[Chronos]

I'm mostly a tea drinker (though also enjoy cocoa, because who doesn't like chocolate?). Friends who really like coffee have introduced me to very good coffee varieties. I found they tasted less foul than usual. I probably could acquire the taste, but I haven't felt any need to.

And there's a huge variety in tea quality, too, and most Americans, when they drink tea at all, settle for really low quality. The irony is that, while, yes, the highest-quality teas are more expensive, the absolute cheapest tea available, the stuff from Aldi, is actually a pretty good one (not the best, but pretty good), certainly better than what most Americans drink.

And yeah, to the point of the thread, the primary effect of caffeine is to alleviate the effects of caffeine withdrawal.