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View Full Version : Optimization Abusing Fire and Oil Flasks



PwrHngryTortois
2019-10-31, 10:47 AM
I don't know about you all but using the in game items to build traps or get around more easily is one of my favorite parts of the game. If you're like me, you'll love this "combo."

Step 1:
Be a 3rd level Wizard, take Firebolt, Catapult, Find Familiar, and Dragon's Breath.

Step 2: Summon familiar: Either pick a quick flying one or a snake you can hide up your sleeve. Buy lots of oil.

Step 3:
Cast catapult, fling a flask of oil at your enemy for 3d8 bludgeoning damage. Your opponent is now covered in oil.

Step 4:
Cast Dragon's Breath on your familiar with a bonus action and select fire as your damage type. You cast Firebolt on the target and your familiar uses their breath weapon.

Step 5: Burn them to the ground. A creature covered in oil takes an additional 5 damage whenever they would take fire damage for the next minute. You'll be doing 1d10 +5 and your familiar will be doing 3d6 +5 PER ROUND, with no additional spell slot usage.

This is totally goofy but seems effective, not broken but definitely powerful for a level 3 character. Let me know if you know any other fun shenanigans!

BloodSnake'sCha
2019-10-31, 10:52 AM
Using familiars to air drop oil.

I think this is the only good use for the spell flock of familiars(if it was not concentration).

nickl_2000
2019-10-31, 10:57 AM
Using familiars to air drop oil.

I think this is the only good use for the spell flock of familiars(if it was not concentration).

Where is the world is Flock of Familiars from?

BloodSnake'sCha
2019-10-31, 11:01 AM
Where is the world is Flock of Familiars from?

I don't remember but Google says
the Lost Laboratory of Kwalish module

PwrHngryTortois
2019-10-31, 11:04 AM
Where is the world is Flock of Familiars from?

"2nd-level conjuration

Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Touch
Components: V, S
Duration: 1 hour

You temporarily summon three familiars – spirits that take animal forms of your choice. Each familiar uses the same rules and options for a familiar conjured by the Find Familiar spell. All the familiars conjured by this spell must be the same type of creature (celestials, fey, or fiends; your choice). If you already have a familiar conjured by the Find Familiar spell or similar means, then one fewer familiars are conjured by this spell.

Familiars summoned by this spell can telepathically communicate with you and share their visual or auditory senses while they are within 1 mile of you.

When you cast a spell with a range of touch, one of the familiars conjured by this spell can deliver the spell, as normal. However, you can cast a touch spell through only one familiar per turn.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, you conjure an additional familiar for each slot level above 2nd.

Spell Lists. Warlock, Wizard"

Besides scouting I don't much point to flock of familiars, unless you're a warlock and summon three pseudo dragons so you can be Khaleesi

NNescio
2019-10-31, 11:04 AM
Where is the world is Flock of Familiars from?

Lost Laboratory of Kwalish, an adventure module. But the spell isn't intended as a general resource for character options (at least for AL), and is totally OP anyway straight out of the box, because it completely obsoletes most Divination scouting/remote-sensing type spells.

It gets even more ridiculous when weaponized with items.

CheddarChampion
2019-10-31, 03:02 PM
Steps 3 and 4 will have to be on different turns. Bonus action casting rules and all that.
The target must also fail the Dex save against catapult.
Other than that seems pretty good.

Can alchemist's fire stack with the oil? Burning damage every turn?

Sparky McDibben
2019-10-31, 03:06 PM
This potentially becomes even more amazing with unseen servant or animate objects. Animating oil drums or flasks and having them pour themselves over enemies while another caster does wall of fire, etc., is fantastic. Not as optimal as using daggers or the like, but a lot of fun! Give your unseen servant a torch and an oil flask, and you've created a kamikaze drone who can attack the first enemy it sees with almost zero resource cost (assuming you cast it as a ritual), plus a light source to draw attacks.

JackPhoenix
2019-11-01, 01:13 AM
This potentially becomes even more amazing with unseen servant or animate objects. Animating oil drums or flasks and having them pour themselves over enemies while another caster does wall of fire, etc., is fantastic. Not as optimal as using daggers or the like, but a lot of fun! Give your unseen servant a torch and an oil flask, and you've created a kamikaze drone who can attack the first enemy it sees with almost zero resource cost (assuming you cast it as a ritual), plus a light source to draw attacks.

Unseen Servant can't attack. It can drop the torch if the oil is on the ground, but it can't use it against creatures.

I'm also reasonably sure the intent is that you can trigger the extra fire damage only once, as the oil burn away after that, the 1-minute limit is separate from that. It doesn't make sense you could set the same amount of oil on fire repeatedly, and it wouldn't keep burning on its own in between.

BloodSnake'sCha
2019-11-01, 06:27 AM
Unseen Servant can't attack. It can drop the torch if the oil is on the ground, but it can't use it against creatures.

I'm also reasonably sure the intent is that you can trigger the extra fire damage only once, as the oil burn away after that, the 1-minute limit is separate from that. It doesn't make sense you could set the same amount of oil on fire repeatedly, and it wouldn't keep burning on its own in between.

It can pour the oil on someone or just on the ground.

They are the preparation, not the attack or damage.

Sparky McDibben
2019-11-01, 07:34 AM
Unseen Servant can't attack. It can drop the torch if the oil is on the ground, but it can't use it against creatures.

I'm also reasonably sure the intent is that you can trigger the extra fire damage only once, as the oil burn away after that, the 1-minute limit is separate from that. It doesn't make sense you could set the same amount of oil on fire repeatedly, and it wouldn't keep burning on its own in between.

Good points! I would have it pour the oil on the ground or see if the DM would let the unseen servant pour it an enemy, or just straight up yeet the jug into minion swarms. If that wasn't OK, maybe have the unseen servant target structures or objects nearby (scaffolding, derricks, bridges, etc).

Lupine
2019-11-01, 11:40 AM
I fail to see why you would would take that much effort. This could be done much earlier with just catapult and firebolt, at first level. A +5 is nice, but it isn't really all that significant at 3rd level. At first level, however, a 1d10 +5 per round is much more significant, equivalent to a heavy crossbow shot every round, after a much more powerful initial burst. It's nice, especially for a fire flavored character who isn't really combat oriented, but a fighter with a maul and 20 str will probably have better reliable damage.
Personally, I think the idea is clever, and as a DM, I'd allow it, but it think it doesn't scale particularly well. That said, in terms of combat resources, a first level spell to deal 1d10+5 relatively reliably is not too bad, especially in a prolonged fight.

Where this would really shine is the first level rogue with the flaming crossbow bolts who's dealing 1d10+10 per turn, which could be absolutely devastating for quite a few levels, as even a lot of CR 2 monsters have around 60 HP, meaning that in a vaccuum, its around 4 turns till you have a cooked monster. Add in other players with this crossbow idea, and it gets better and better, Well prepared, a party could be dealing 4d8 +40 each turn, if they prepare well enough. And that's after the 3d8 from catapult.