A little bit confused about the dread necromancer spell list

[tonyoo]

This is my third or 4th character i made. Start playing a campaign in 3.5E That was supposed to be a One-Shot we decide to continue. i built this character at level 9 then when i leveled decided to go back through and fix some of the mistakes I made making this character.

Then i ran into something confusing I glazed over the first time on page 85 of the Book heroes of Horror there's a line that states the following

When a dread necromancer gains access to a new level of spells, she automatically knows all the spells for that level given on the dread necromancer's spell list.

The way it's worded makes me think that if I can cast 5th lvl spells (character level 10), I get every spell on the 5th lvl list and lower
the reason I find this confusing that with a sorcerer you can only take so many spells from the list and that's how I originally built the character.

I've talked with my DM who's only a little bit more experience than me and even he thinks it's weird

just looking for a opinion or clarification

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

That's exactly how it works, it has a very limited class spell list and so it gets to learn every spell on the list as soon as it can cast them. The Beguiler in PH2 and Warmage in CA work the same way.

[Thurbane]

Dread Necromancer is what is usually referred to as a "set list spontaneous caster". The other base classes in this category are Beguiler and Warmage.

You are correct in your reading that they cast anything they know due to level (so a 10th level Dread Necro can cast anything on the Dread Necro spell list of level 5 or lower, so long as he has the unused slots to do so).

All three of those classes also have the option of added certain other spell to their class list using Advanced Learning.

[tonyoo]

thank you Thurbane and Biffoniacus_Furiou

your answers were a great help and I really appreciate you guys taking the time to answer me

[Malphegor]

Incidentally, this is why if you have a feat that gives you access to a set of spells, a dread necromancer automatically learns those spells rather than mere having the potential to access to them by RAW.

So, for example, if a sorcerer took, say, Arcane Disciple or Mother Cyst, they'd have to individually learn each spell. Set-list casters like the Beguiler and the Dread Necromancer automatically add them to their spell list, meaning these feats are more immediately powerful for these kinds of casters than most others.

It's probably an oversight imo since the fixed list casters probably weren't designed with these feats in mind, but it's not massively overpowered, just timesaving more than anything else.

[Biggus]

Incidentally, this is why if you have a feat that gives you access to a set of spells, a dread necromancer automatically learns those spells rather than mere having the potential to access to them by RAW.

So, for example, if a sorcerer took, say, Arcane Disciple or Mother Cyst, they'd have to individually learn each spell. Set-list casters like the Beguiler and the Dread Necromancer automatically add them to their spell list, meaning these feats are more immediately powerful for these kinds of casters than most others.

It's probably an oversight imo since the fixed list casters probably weren't designed with these feats in mind, but it's not massively overpowered, just timesaving more than anything else.

Also it's not a major problem because fixed-list casters are generally considered the weakest of all the full caster classes. Compare to Cleric and Druid who automatically know all spells published for their class everywhere without having to spend feats...

[Lorddenorstrus]

Just a standard set list caster, beguiler Warmage theres a few. They have 0 choice in selection they're given say 5-6 options out of the 100+ A Sorc/Wiz could've chosen or used. This puts them in a niche as they can resolve certain scenarios with ease, others they lack the tools to resolve and "struggle" making them lower on the tier list of power to resolve issues.

Don't worry that "knowing all those spells" will make you over powered. Please, most of the DNs spell list is crap LOL I've played that class 1-20 a few times and 1-10 range in some shorter lived campaigns as well. It's one of my favorites in the Gestalt games we play. Besides the point the majority of those spells are OVER niche so it makes them.. well unusable honestly. The DM would have to tailor combats to specifically make it where niche spells are highly valued. You're still weaker than a half assed Cleric or Wizard or Druid so don't worry about it.

[NNescio]

Also it's not a major problem because fixed-list casters are generally considered the weakest of all the full caster classes. Compare to Cleric and Druid who automatically know all spells published for their class everywhere without having to spend feats...

They need to prepare them individually. It's balanced, see!

Well, no. Also *cough* Hatran *cough* acorn *cough*