what are some good Alchemical Cartridges / firearm cartridges for My Musket (PF)

[Nosta]

I am looking for a good variety of Firearm Cartridges for my Musket-master / Gun chemist to use

I know of the Dragon Breath one and a the flare one but i think i saw one that hampers a foe's spell casting.

any other good ones?

[upho]

If this is for the game (mentioned in your last thread) starting at 8th, the sad truth is that none of the alchemical cartridges allowing a save will be worth the gp and action costs. The set DC 15 is typically only viable against monsters of CR 4 or less, and the Gun Chemist's bonus unfortunately scales far too slowly to make a difference.

For example, the typical CR 8 opponent (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E2-s8weiulPoBQjdI05LBzOUToyoZIdSsLKxHAvf8F8/edit#gid=3) has Fort +11 and Ref +7 (same as the monster creation target statistics (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/monster-creation/#Step_2_Target_Statistics) for "good" and "poor" saves of CR 8 monsters). Which means your 8th level "Musket Chemist" build will likely have less than a 25% chance to fully affect a level-appropriate enemy with cartridges allowing a Fort save, and a 45% chance with cartridges allowing a Ref save, and these chances are reduced by about -10% for every three levels after 8th (assuming additional Gun Chemist levels).

In conclusion, the four alchemical cartridges (https://www.aonprd.com/EquipmentWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Alchemical%2 0cartridge%20(gray%20dust)) which may be of interest (aside from those with bullets or pellets) are:

Gray Dust Cartridge Half normal damage, -10 to concentration checks and cannot cast defensively for 1d4 rounds. Especially great with a melee ally with good reach and Combat Reflexes.
Gray Dust Shot Scatter version, 20' radius cloud imposes -5 to concentration. Since this doesn't prevent casting defensively it's rarely as useful as the above single-target version.
Salt Shot Scatter shot dealing nonlethal damage. Good to have a few of these made in case you want to take prisoners instead of killing your opponents.
Smoke Cartridge No damage, creates 20' radius cloud granting concealment (20% miss chance) beyond 5'. Useful for various defensive and Stealth shenanigans as no form of eyesight can bypass the concealment, and better if you happen to have a pair of Fog-Cutting Lenses allowing you to ignore the smoke.

There are also other things with which to improve your firearm ammo, such as making your bullets and pellets of Liquid Glass (https://www.aonprd.com/SpecialMaterials.aspx) (+1 damage, +125 gp extra for 30 bullets) or covering bullets used with Alchemical Ordnance in Corrosenze (https://www.aonprd.com/EquipmentMiscDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Corrosenze) (lowers one type of energy resistance by -5, applied as poison, 90 gp).

Finally, note that you gain a lot from having a gun able to fire scatter shots as a Gun Chemist, and there are only two 2-handed guns with scatter. Unfortunately both are terrible; the blunderbuss has relatively poor damage and a pathetic range, and the culverin is practically unusable due to its need for a support, a huge disadvantage which for some reason cannot be worked around in any way unlike the similar property of the double hackbut (according to the stupid RAW, a Colossal creature would be knocked prone by firing a Small culverin).

So unless your game has some form of houseruled/homebrew 2-handed scatter gun which is actually decent, I strongly recommend you instead use a paddle-foot pistol (best 1-handed scatter) and either get a Large pistol wielded as a 2-handed gun with the Musket Master, or (much better) replace the Musket Master with only 3 levels of Trench Fighter for Dex to damage.

HTH!

[Nosta]

@ upho

I see. Well its not the Image i had but i don't want to be a wet noodle either .

Trench Fighter Huh?

do I need Gunslinger levels to be effective or could i just go full Gun chemist?

[upho]

I see. Well its not the Image i had but i don't want to be a wet noodle either .Oh, I should clarify that you'll probably do just fine in combat with a musket and Musket Master levels, but you won't be as versatile in combat as you'd be with a scatter weapon and you won't be able to use any related nifty ammo or Gun Chemist features. I think the 5 Musket Master levels needed is a more important disadvantage with 2-handed, as more alchemist levels are simply better and gives you IMO much more fun stuff than gunslinger levels.

That said, getting as close as possible to the character concept you had in mind is of course most important, and I think it's easily worth the price of losing a bit of "overall adventuring power".


Trench Fighter Huh?Quickest way to gain Dex to damage with guns, and can be combined with quite a few other fighter archetypes. Only for 1-handed of course, since you must be a Musket Master to reload a 2-handed as a free action.


do I need Gunslinger levels to be effective or could i just go full Gun chemist?You need at least 3 levels of gunslinger (Musket Master) levels if you want to use a 2-handed gun. Otherwise, full Gun Chemist is definitely good. You won't be as much of a machine-gun monster in combat without Dex to damage (from Trench Fighter 3 or gunslinger 5), but you'll gain more general versatility since you won't delay your alchemist features (notably extracts). So ultimately it depends on how gun-focused you like to be.