How does a Battle Master increase his chances of beating an Arcane Trickster?

[BullHorn]

In the campaign I joined a couple of months ago there is an Arcane Trickster whom I don't trust. Based on some of his actions, as well as the way some of the party members talk about him, he might go into PVP or try to get other players killed if it fits his needs or backstory.

I don't mind it because so far it hasn't been an issue and when it does become an issue, it might spice things up. Regardless, if it ever comes to it, it'll be a rough fight because his stats and HP rolled real high ("loaded dice" gets thrown around him often...).

I'm a Battle Master Fighter with the Alert and Lucky feats. Alert means he can't Sneak attack me and Lucky means my first round will be devastating because I'll probably Action Surge with 6 attacks and maybe Reroll 1 or 2 if they miss.

The next feat that I'll be taking is Sentinel, even though I've yet to encounter situations where enemies run away from me, Disengaging as a BA would be the most obvious tactic he can use.

I won't be taking Mage Slayer due to house rules: spellcasting of level 1 or higher spells that take at least 1 Action to cast triggers AoO in melee range even without Mage Slayer

What else do I need to think about? I'm not sure what kind of spells he could be using, maybe one of the Resilient feats?

[DragonBaneDM]

Allow me to be the first of a dozen internet strangers to say that the greatest weapon in your arsenal is a chat with your DM and the Rogue’s player about what kind of game you’re playing and how the group as a whole has fun.

[Crgaston]

Resilient Wis is almost a feat tax on Fighters. The AT list is heavy on Enchanments and Illusions. Spells like Hold Person, Suggestion, Fear, and Hypnotic Pattern all target Wis saves.

[AvatarVecna]

The real thing to do is have OOC conversation with players/DMs about your issue with this playstyle - namely, that while you as a player are under some measure of obligation to play with that player if you want to be part of this group, your character is under no obligation to adventure with somebody you don't trust not to kill you in your sleep.

If that's not working, or if you just really wanna get to IC solutions...have private conversations with the other party members, and just...ditch him. Abandon a quest halfway through and, while he's sleeping, just leave. No violence, just "we're gonna go make our own party, with hookers and booze". Do everything via private notes to prevent metagaming, if possible. Make it clear to the player that, if he's going to play a PvP douchebag, you're going to play people who avoid adventuring with PvP douchebags.

If you have difficulty shaking him that way...then instead of ditching him in his sleep, murder him in his sleep. Do this a few days after he crosses a line that isn't "tried to murder us", to make him think you let it go. I recommend picking up the Brawny feat and getting two conspirators in on this with you - that gives you a good shot at both expertise in a Str skill, good Str, and advantage to tripping/grappling. Surprise round should be you doing both of those things with advantage (should be doable even without action surge). At this point, he's almost assuredly grappled and prone. Being prone and adjacent to somebody means he has disadvantage on melee/ranged attack rolls, and thus can't Sneak Attack at all. Being adjacent and not in concealment means he can't attempt to Hide. Being grappled means he can't move at all (and thus can't undo being Prone until he escapes the grapple). Even if he escapes the grapple, unless he's faster than you he can't actually escape melee without you being able to catch up to him, and this gets even easier if you can manage to pull all this off in a location where escape isn't as viable as it might be in an open plain (such as inside a dungeon with a bolted/barricaded door to keep monsters from breaking in and killing y'all while you sleep). Casting basically any spells are going to provoke from all three of you. Following round, unleash action surge with some Lucky/Superiority Dice involved. Your helpers can assist via other methods, or they can just use the Help action to assist your inevitable Athletics checks when he tries to escape the grapple. Especially because he was sleeping, he's likely at least low on spell slots anyway, and with basically no options left unless he gets lucky/has expertise in Acrobatics, he's almost certainly just going to die like a bitch.

[Lunali]

Alert means he can't sneak attack you by using hide, shadowblade in dim light, a familiar using help or another enemy in the vicinity will still let him sneak attack. If he has an owl, even sentinel won't let you get AoO on it so you'll have to specifically target it.

[BruceLeeroy]

Allow me to be the first of a dozen internet strangers to say that the greatest weapon in your arsenal is a chat with your DM and the Rogue’s player about what kind of game you’re playing and how the group as a whole has fun.

I've been the DM for a group that has had surprise PvP, on multiple occasions over the decades. It's rare that it is a positive experience for the table. I like to think that I have learned my lesson on what to allow - nowadays, as a DM, I am more apt to simply interrupt a player when they are doing something toxic or disruptive and call a time-out on the session until we can figure out how not to be ****ty to one another.

However, there has been... hmm, a few occasions where the natural sequence of events in the story led to a nasty rivalry between characters, with players who handled it maturely.

But those situations are vastly outnumbered by the times where it turned out ****ty for everyone, ruined the atmosphere at the table, resulted in sulking and bitterness between the players and an exasperated DM.

So, yea, probably don't do this? 'Cause it's ****ty.

[Catullus64]

Don't you outnumber him? Nothing in your original post makes it sound like you can't rely on your other party members; if he tries anything while the party is in close proximity, he can only do so much before running into a wall of Action Economy, high stats or no.

I wouldn't alter your build too much. After all, these build choices will remain in place even after this situation has resolved itself one way or the other. Just share your concerns in-character, and try to avoid any one character being alone for too long.

[HappyDaze]

Alert means he can't Sneak attack me

Oh really?

[MaxWilson]

What else do I need to think about? I'm not sure what kind of spells he could be using, maybe one of the Resilient feats?

Buy some Purple Worm venom, apply it to some ammunition, and then kill him in his sleep. It's the only way to be sure.

[Chugger]

Allow me to be the first of a dozen internet strangers to say that the greatest weapon in your arsenal is a chat with your DM and the Rogue’s player about what kind of game you’re playing and how the group as a whole has fun.

very much this

[Hail Tempus]

You shouldn’t design your character around dealing with a disruptive player. If you do that, you’re just letting him control the game.

This is an out of game problem. If the player attempts to engage in PVP, you should simply put your dice down and tell the player, DM and the rest of the party that you don’t agree to engage in it. Then go to the kitchen and get a soda or whatever. This is a problem for the DM to resolve.

[JNAProductions]

You shouldn’t design your character around dealing with a disruptive player. If you do that, you’re just letting him control the game.

This is an out of game problem. If the player attempts to engage in PVP, you should simply put your dice down and tell the player, DM and the rest of the party that you don’t agree to engage in it. Then go to the kitchen and get a soda or whatever. This is a problem for the DM to resolve.

The DM is already running the entire game! Don't foist it off on them, they've got enough on their plate.

Now, that being said, the people who've said "Have an OOC discussion with the problematic player," are spot on. If you all are able to handle PvP with no hard feelings and agree that it'd make the game more fun, then let the player do PvP when it makes sense. If you're worried people will take it personally, or it just won't make the game more fun, talk to the rest of your group all together and explain your worries, then work together on a solution.

[Sparky McDibben]

In the campaign I joined a couple of months ago there is an Arcane Trickster whom I don't trust. Based on some of his actions, as well as the way some of the party members talk about him, he might go into PVP or try to get other players killed if it fits his needs or backstory.

I don't mind it because so far it hasn't been an issue and when it does become an issue, it might spice things up. Regardless, if it ever comes to it, it'll be a rough fight because his stats and HP rolled real high ("loaded dice" gets thrown around him often...).

I'm a Battle Master Fighter with the Alert and Lucky feats. Alert means he can't Sneak attack me and Lucky means my first round will be devastating because I'll probably Action Surge with 6 attacks and maybe Reroll 1 or 2 if they miss.

The next feat that I'll be taking is Sentinel, even though I've yet to encounter situations where enemies run away from me, Disengaging as a BA would be the most obvious tactic he can use.

I won't be taking Mage Slayer due to house rules: spellcasting of level 1 or higher spells that take at least 1 Action to cast triggers AoO in melee range even without Mage Slayer

What else do I need to think about? I'm not sure what kind of spells he could be using, maybe one of the Resilient feats?

So it sounds like you don't have a problem with the player, you just expect the character to go bad. Even so, I'd still recommend speaking to the DM and the player, minimum, to set some expectations. Just lead off with, "It looks like we're heading here, which I'm totally fine with, but I wanted to see what was on the table here." You should probably have this out among the table, given that some of the other players might not be OK with this. Another piece of information here is that someone could cry "metagaming!" unless your character has a very clear reason to distrust the rogue.

Anyway, as far as mechanical, in-game advice goes, share your warnings with the group: "I don't trust that guy," you whisper as you stare into the campfire's flames. "One day he's going to want something more than he wants to stay with us. And if we're between him and it...I need to know whose side you'll be on, priest."

Secondly, gear up. Caltrops and hunting traps are in the PHB, and you should get some. If you're worried about sleeping in rooms, buy small bells and hang them over the doorknob and the window sash. Routine is your friend here. If you say to your DM, "from now on, whenever I go to sleep, I always scatter caltrops, hang bells, and a set a hunting trap on the ground next to me, and I pick them up the next morning," you have a set of semi-permanent contingencies. Buy powdered chalk. If they try to go invisible, start chucking the chalk and see if you can outline them. Or, scatter it on the ground and see where they're stepping. Finally, manacles! If your DM has an anti-magic version you can get, get those. Otherwise, regular manacles. Step 1, grapple the target. Step 2, use your action to handcuff them to you. Sure, they can get out of it with a misty step, but they're still forced to burn a bonus action and a second (or higher) level spell slot.

Finally, indulge your inner Batman. Make it your business to find out everything about your fellow party-members. Where they live, who they love, and what they do in their downtime. Devise a secret plan to defeat each one by focusing on their weak spots, you magnificent paranoiac.

[Composer99]

Allow me to be the first of a dozen internet strangers to say that the greatest weapon in your arsenal is a chat with your DM and the Rogue’s player about what kind of game you’re playing and how the group as a whole has fun.

Ditto.

Also, I concur with everyone who has said you shouldn't adjust your character build just to deal with a problem player/character.

[Hail Tempus]

The DM is already running the entire game! Don't foist it off on them, they've got enough on their plate.It’s the DM’s job to police the behavior of the players and to set expectations. The DM is fully in control of the game world.

A DM can tell players that PVP isn’t allowed in his game. They can either respect that, or find somewhere else to play.

[HappyDaze]

It’s the DM’s job to police the behavior of the players and to set expectations. The DM is fully in control of the game world.

A DM can tell players that PVP isn’t allowed in his game. They can either respect that, or find somewhere else to play.

It's everyone's job to police fellow players, because they exist in the real world, not the DM's game world. If I'm a player, I have as much right as the DM to call another player (including the DM) out for dickish behavior. If I'm hosting the game in my home, then even more so.

[Mjolnirbear]

1. A gagged caster can't speak verbal components.
2. Hands that are bound can't do somatic gestures not fondle a focus in the correct fashion.
3. Hire a spell caster (secretly). Hire two! Contingency is a good spell. Sanctuary, stoneskin, death ward...

Poisons! Lovely non-lethal poisons! Oil of taggit, ether, drow poison...

Someone mentioned caltrops. May I also recommend tiny glass balls filled with ether?

Ritual Casting: Alarm is your friend. So is Find Familiar! It disappears, little does the rogue realise it turned into a spider and was keeping very close watch from under the bed.

[LentilNinja]

As a player who was in a campaign with PvP, the DM had both players enter an arena to have a legal duel with the following rules:

1. Fight to the death.
2. 5 minute prep time. (The Paladin agreed to this rule not realizing the caster would cast every buff on themselves. Don't do this.)
3. No flying or otherwise leaving the arena grounds. (besides using the walls / jumping, of course.)
4. No outside help.

I'm sure there were other rules. Thematically, an official duel in the arena was the only legal way to kill someone in combat in which any revenge-seeking (by your PC's character who is exactly like your PC with a moustache) was considered dishonourable & enforced a heightened penalty on top of the assault/murder charge.

As others have said, as a Fighter having some poisons & traps up your sleeve will be useful. This will be doubly so if the fight's in an arena, where dependent on size their movement will be limited.

As for whether or not you should both engage in PvP, make sure to have it agreed with the DM. Nobody wants their character to die, let alone losing to another player at the table, but if everyone involved understands and agrees to the terms decided then there shouldn't be any complaints from the loser.

[GlenSmash!]

The DM is already running the entire game!

This is exactly why I as a DM don't do PvP. I don't spend my time preparing scenarios for the players to interact with, and prepare my brain for reacting to what the PCs do to make the next scenario, just to have my work ignored while the PCs fight each other.


Now, that being said, the people who've said "Have an OOC discussion with the problematic player," are spot on. If you all are able to handle PvP with no hard feelings and agree that it'd make the game more fun, then let the player do PvP when it makes sense. If you're worried people will take it personally, or it just won't make the game more fun, talk to the rest of your group all together and explain your worries, then work together on a solution.

This^ big time.

[Hail Tempus]

It's everyone's job to police fellow players, because they exist in the real world, not the DM's game world. If I'm a player, I have as much right as the DM to call another player (including the DM) out for dickish behavior. If I'm hosting the game in my home, then even more so. Of course everyone has the right to point out when a player is being disruptive. But, I'd argue that the DM has the obligation, from session zero onwards, to establish the tone of the game, as well as the general rules for player interaction.

[Yakmala]

Does anyone in the party have a particularly high Charisma stat?

Then use Persuasion and Deception and get the campaign's NPC's to do the dirty work for you. If you have expertise with thieves tools, disguise or forgery kits, even better.

Frame him for murder. Spread rumors that he serves a dark god and is sacrificing children. Plant evidence that he is plotting to assassinate the King/Lord/High Priest/Arch Wizard. Carve his initials into the alter of the local temple.

Heck, just put up bounty posters featuring him in taverns where high level adventurers hang out (obviously not the one your party frequents).

Then sit back and enjoy the mayhem.