rwbyOS X: Even the Thread Gets a Costume Change!

[Rawhide]

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/257083480423849318/47E23CD70F2CD531A3B6AD9DF4C5E60491DC5EE4/
Hello and welcome to the 10th iteration of the RWBY threads!

RWBY is an western made, anime style, 3d computer animation, freely available, web series, with variable length episodes, originally created by Monty Oum (http://www.youtube.com/user/montyoum/videos) for Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com). Unfortunately, Monty Oum has passed away, but his creation lives on. Born in America, Monty Oum was of Cambodian, Vietnamese, Chinese, and Japanese (https://mobile.twitter.com/montyoum/status/346156789307437057) descent.

RWBY is pronounced "ruby" and is an acronym for the four main team members: Red, White, Black, Yellow - aka Ruby, Weiss, Blake, Yang. All of the main characters have some folklore, fairy tale, or historical reference, but are very much their own characters and are not based on that reference. In addition, every character (with the only known exceptions being Ozpin and one other character) and team name is based on a colour. While some are obvious, others need to be traced back a fair way to find something that is associated with a colour.

Watch:
First Episode: Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/episode/rwby-season-1-episode-1) YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sGiE10zNQM)
Latest Episode: Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/show/rwby)
Playlist: Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/show/rwby), YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUBVPK8x-XMhCW2fW7ZYlD9MHjvmT8IGK)

Trailers:
Red: Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/episode/rwby-season-1-red-trailer) YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYW2GmHB5xs)
White: Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/episode/rwby-season-1-white-trailer) YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt9vl8iAN5Q)
Black: Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/episode/rwby-season-1-black-trailer) YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImKCt7BD4U4)
Yellow: Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/episode/rwby-season-1-yellow-trailer) YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCw_aAS7vWI)
Volume 4 - Ruby Character Short: Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/episode/rwby-volume-4-volume-4-character-short) YouTube (http://youtube.com/watch?v=M0WeiG2-HRQ)
Volume 5 - Weiss Character Short: Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/episode/rwby-volume-5-volume-5-weiss-character-short-premieres-oct-14) YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZAS_rzgCE0)
Volume 5 - Blake Character Short: Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/episode/rwby-volume-5-blake-trailer) YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTJzFCebdvQ)
Volume 5 - Yang Character Short: Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/episode/rwby-volume-5-yang-38-gojh4) YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sn8BGKOv6Q)

Wikis:
Wikia (http://rwby.wikia.com/wiki/RWBY_Wiki)

RWBY Chibi: Spoiler Warning (watch Volume 3 first)
Playlist: Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/show/rwby-chibi) YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUBVPK8x-XMh_zI3mm54t5zNjruYsfILB)

Previous threads:
0 - Rwby (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?275554-Rwby)
1 - RWBY (Ruby) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?286363-RWBY-%28Ruby%29)
2 - RWBY 2sday: Birdie, NO!!! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?304358-RWBY-2sday-Birdie-NO!!!)
3 - RWBY III: These kids just keep getting weirder. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?325186-RWBY-III-These-kids-just-keep-getting-weirder)
4 - RWBY IV: I Love These Guys (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?364716-RWBY-IV-I-Love-These-Guys)
5 - RWBY V: Inspired by Real Physics! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?370105-RWBY-V-Inspired-by-Real-Physics!)
6 - RWBY VI: This thread is also a gun tribute to Monty Oum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?382131-RWBY-VI-This-thread-is-also-a-tribute-to-Monty-Oum)
7 - RWBY VII: Winter is coming here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?455334-RWBY-VII-Winter-is-here)
8 - RWBY VIII: Well, THAT escalated quickly (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?493826-RWBY-VIII-Well-THAT-escalated-quickly)
9 - RWBY IX: Fractured Fairy Tales (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?542431-RWBY-IX-Fractured-Fairy-Tales)

New episodes are available to Rooster Teeth FIRST (http://accounts.roosterteeth.com/first-promo) subscribers at 10:00am CST (4:00pm GMT) Saturday, then to the public at 10:00am CST (4:00pm GMT) Tuesday on the Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/show/rwby) website (free membership required). A week after the initial release, episodes then become available on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUBVPK8x-XMhCW2fW7ZYlD9MHjvmT8IGK). no idea, Rooster Teeth don't tell you anything. The information is probably buried somewhere in some hard to find spot that isn't coming up in any searches. Will update later.

Rawhide's viewing recommendation:
Watch Episode 1 first, followed by the four trailers in order, then all remaining episodes starting with Episode 2 in order. You can skip all remaining trailers (and most bonus footage, such as opening titles animation) except the character shorts listed below, as they are your more traditional trailers made from scenes from the show, while the first four trailers are new footage and include story elements not included in the series proper. However, do not skip the World of Remnant videos, as they include useful information regarding things such as how the technology in the series works. Warning: Don't watch the first volume of RWBY Chibi until after completion of Volume 3, as it contains spoilers.

Starting with Volume 4, RWBY introduced character shorts. Like the four initial trailers, these are canonical short stories that aren't repeated in the episodes.

Watch between Volume 3 and 4:
Ruby: Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/episode/rwby-volume-4-volume-4-character-short) YouTube (http://youtube.com/watch?v=M0WeiG2-HRQ)

Watch between Volume 4 and 5:
Weiss: Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/episode/rwby-volume-5-volume-5-weiss-character-short-premieres-oct-14) YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZAS_rzgCE0)
Blake: Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/episode/rwby-volume-5-blake-trailer) YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTJzFCebdvQ)
Yang: Rooster Teeth (http://roosterteeth.com/episode/rwby-volume-5-yang-38-gojh4) YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sn8BGKOv6Q)

Notes on terminology:
Throughout these threads you will see people refer to things as a volume, season, chapter, and episode. There is currently no functional difference between a volume and a season, so these two terms are currently synonymous. In most of their material, Rooster Teeth refer to a season as a volume.

While it is largely synonymous, there is, however, an important distinction between chapter and episode that you should be aware of to prevent confusion. For Volume 1, 10 episodes (termed "chapters") were planned. However, in order to release one episode per week to the internet, Rooster Teeth opted to slice some of these chapters into two parts. This resulted in the 10 original chapters (released on the DVD and BluRay in their original 10 episode form) being split into 16 episodes on the web. This can make some things confusing when referring to the episode numbers between different mediums. Rooster Teeth have promised not to do this for future volumes.



Chapter

Title

Episodes



1

Ruby Rose

1



2

The Shining Beacon

2 & 3



3

The First Step

4 & 5



4

The Emerald Forest

6 & 7



5

Players and Pieces

8



6

The Badge and The Burden

9 & 10



7

Jaunedice

11 & 12



8

Forever Fall

13 & 14



9

The Stray

15



10

Black & White

16




Due in part to the staggered release of the episodes (e.g. not making it to public for a full week), we have a much tighter ship regarding spoilers than you may be used to. Please be sure to read the full spoiler rules for RWBY below.

Official note on spoilers:

Discussion about a particular episode will be considered spoilers (and must be in a correctly labelled spoiler box) until a full week has passed since it was posted anywhere (e.g. paid subscription services such as RoosterTeeth FIRST) or 72 hours (3 days) after it is posted for everyone to view without charge on RoosterTeeth's own website, whichever is the latest.
(Note: This means it will never be less than one week and, based on the current release schedule, will usually be 10 days from paid subscription release.)
Anything released prior to that (RTX, leaks, etc.) will be considered spoilers until no earlier than the same timeframe after the official reveal in the episode it relates to.
All spoiler boxes must indicate clearly in the spoiler box's title (i.e. [spoiler=title]) what episode it is spoiling (even when replying), including the volume and episode number.
This period is a minimum amount only. You should consider using spoiler boxes for longer, particularly for larger spoilers.
It is recommended, but not mandatory, that you consider using spoiler boxes for older information to assist new fans still catching up. Again, please indicate the episode in the spoiler box's title.

The free to view videos are a week behind, and on top of new people walking into the thread from YouTube without knowing, we have people who cannot watch it from the official site. Keeping them labelled like this is important for those behind so that they know what is safe to open and what isn't. When replying to spoilers without a title, it becomes difficult to determine which episode it was referring to. e.g. "Was the original post about the current episode or a previous episode but the discussion is still ongoing?"

For the purposes of this thread, please never use a spoiler box without a title. If it's not a spoiler but, for example, you're just keeping things such as images, off topic discussion, or walls of text tidy, please mention that in the spoiler box title. When breaking up quotes, always remember to reinsert the spoiler box title.

Purchase:
Volumes 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 of RWBY are available to purchase on BluRay/DVD, or several digital movie services such as iTunes, Google Movies, or Steam.

WARNING:
My recommendation is that you don't touch the Steam versions with a 100 foot barge pole. All movies/shows available to buy or rent on Steam are for streaming only. You cannot download, save, store, backup, transfer, etc. any video purchases from Steam. This isn't Rooster Teeth's doing, it's Valve's.

I've also read reports that it doesn't include any bonus content. So, you are literally paying to stream what you can stream for free. If you'd like to support Rooster Teeth/RWBY, I suggest you buy the DVD(s) or BluRay(s) and/or become a Rooster Teeth FIRST (http://accounts.roosterteeth.com/first-promo) member (which, amongst other things, grants you access to RWBY a week early). Don't support Valve's business model.

[Rater202]

Tracking post.

How's the first ep of the season?

[Rawhide]

Tracking post.

Please don't do this. You can subscribe to the thread in the "Thread Tools" drop down menu.

[DeadMech]

Tracking post.

How's the first ep of the season?

The Hairy Modfather: Please don't post spoilers. Please don't even hint at spoilers.

[LaZodiac]

I know someone who was able to watch it on their site without being a FIRST member, so check it out just in case. You might be able to!

At any rate, I feel like a couple people will enjoy The Thing That Happens.

[Rater202]

So my curiosity go the better of me and I looked it up on the TVtropes recap pageYeah.

Penny's core was salvaged and she was rebuilt.

They explicitly point out that no matter how badly she gets damaged she can be brought back as long as her core is intact.

Or, in other words, the sapient robot explicitly and demonstrably has a soul who was built as part of a program to cut down on human casualties isn't just creating sapient life to throw it away.

Which means y'all needs to pick up some phones becuase I called it.

[Rawhide]

I know someone who was able to watch it on their site without being a FIRST member, so check it out just in case. You might be able to!

You can also watch it on VRV if you have a VRV premium membership (which includes Crunchyroll, HIDIVE, etc).


At any rate, I feel like a couple people will enjoy The Thing That Happens.


The Thing That Happens.

This is an acceptable way to hint at a thing that happens.

[Rawhide]

So my curiosity go the better of me and I looked it up on the TVtropes recap page

The Hairy Modfather: Please read the "Official note on spoilers" in the original post and correct your spoiler tag, thanks.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Tracking post.

How's the first ep of the season?

Is the new volume out?

[khadgar567]

Is the new volume out?
yep fresh from Hi-rez patch notes as bonus content as one of the creators was on the pach show and hi-rez tina blurp that the news as volume was out this week end.

[Rawhide]

Is the new volume out?

The first chapter is available for paid up Rooster Teeth FIRST and/or VRV Premium subscribers. Dunno when it's available to the public.

[Ramza00]

Yes the Vol 7 Trailer was posted on the 2nd to last page but no one talked about less than a dozen of responses before conversation shifted to the new thread title and then we have a new thread.

So here it is.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSb_sKsASzY

Notes who they went with voice actor for Qrow. Jason Liebrecht another character from Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, Karley a Briggs solider who did coordination with the radio when the Briggs people did stuff. He is more famous for being Dabi from My Hero Academia, Zeke from Attack on Titan and several dozen other anime dubs.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0509523/


-----

I do like Weiss choosing color with her new outfit, but I do not like the main 4 girls new outfits.

[Ramza00]

Saw the first episode. It was meh. After the episode there is the new song / opening number "Trust Love" and it is even more meh.

What I want to talk about is the hideous thing they did to Jaune's hair [which hasn't happened yet in the Vol 7 Episode 1, but does happen in the new musical number.]

Edit: These spoiler images are about Jaune but other characters are in some of these spoiler images as well. Thus there will be spoilers for Vol 7 Episode 1 of RWBY but also character events that will happen later in Volume 7 that have not happened yet. It is promotional material but I think some of the non Jaune-SPECIFIC promotional material will spoil an event that will happen in Vol 7 in Episode 1.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIef1p7XYAU-y5q.png:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIdWYvCWwAMEcsI.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EITP-EQX0AEUWq5.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIYVMLgWoAEcCDE.png
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/KJtT_STZChE/maxresdefault.jpg


God Jaune's hair just does not work...like at all! We must point it out, and mock it, for this is what my experience as a former Elementary school child has taught me.

[Lord Raziere]

Saw the first episode. It was meh. After the episode there is the new song / opening number "Trust Love" and it is even more meh.

What I want to talk about is the hideous thing they did to Jaune's hair [which hasn't happened yet in the Vol 7 Episode 1, but does happen in the new musical number.]



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIdWYvCWwAMEcsI.jpg


God Jaune's hair just does not work...like at all! We must point it out, and mock it, for this is what my experience as a former Elementary school child has taught me.

Ouch. that is like, one of the exact hairstyles I'd give to a character I'd want everyone to hate. like, its the kind of hairstyle I would give to someone who is full of themselves and just an obnoxious total jerk to everyone. like that hair that someone as horrible and with poor taste as say, Zapp Brannigan would pick and think is cool. thats what this hair makes me think of: Zapp Brannigan.

Zapp!Jaune: it turns out the Grimm have a kill limit, my beautiful Weiss. My plan? Is to simply send expendable hunters after them endlessly until they reached the kill limit, then finally we will strike and wipe them out, winning this war for good. The only thing that can stop us is if some Grimm turn Neutral, a most mysterious conundrum, what makes a Grimm turn Neutral?

[LaZodiac]

Ramza I would recommend editing those spoiler tags since they do have some actual spoilers in them.

[Mechalich]

What I want to talk about is the hideous thing they did to Jaune's hair

The trailer/opener implies a distinct trend towards shorter hair overall for a number of characters, and none of the new characters have long hair at all. Given that, I wonder if there was a practical reason behind the choice. Possibly it was done in an attempt to remove the animation burden of long flowing locks. Binding up Weiss' flowing ponytail into a stiffened posture also suggests this, as does the general lack of mobile, swirly pieces on the new costumes.

None of the new character updates wow me very much. I do wish they could have avoided revealing them in the opener though, since it comes off as even more blatantly commercial that way. I mean, I absolutely understand that character re-designs are an important means of selling additional merch to superfans and that's okay, but the new OP just comes off as a advertisement at the moment. The lackluster song doesn't help, but it's hard to continually have good songs while laboring under the burden of having them lyrically relate to the show in an explicable way (most long running anime series give up on that long before this).

[Rawhide]

Ramza I would recommend editing those spoiler tags since they do have some actual spoilers in them.

While those images have been released separately to promote material from the new volume of RWBY, you are absolutely right that it would be good to rename the spoiler tag, as they include changes not present anywhere in the episode itself, only the "intro" (which takes place at the end of the first episode, specifically to not spoil the first episode).

[DeadMech]

That new outfit Nora's sporting looks like it came out of Kingdom Hearts. I'm not saying that as a bad thing I think it's kinda cute.

I have no strong feelings about Juane's new hair. It's shorter which doesn't bother me. He's obviously using allot of gel to get those spikes which I'm not super into, it's the kind of thing kids used to do when I was younger. Of course I don't have great opinions of the people who have his old doofy longer hair either so...whatever.

[The Fury]

What I want to talk about is the hideous thing they did to Jaune's hair [which hasn't happened yet in the Vol 7 Episode 1, but does happen in the new musical number.]


I read "musical number" and got excited that there was a scene where the characters sing and dance around. I guess that isn't what you meant though. But hey, my coffee hasn't kicked in yet.

I'm pretty indifferent to Jaune's new 'do. Though the more I look at it... I sort of want to tousle it. I wonder if Jaune has the kind of hair that just sort of returns to its normal shape.

[khadgar567]

what do they do to jauns hair? is this a question or declaration of idiocity dude is traveling god knows how long to reach the relic and had his first time in city so he enjoys bit of luxury and grabs a haircut or ironwood may order army barber to get that hair in shape as he needs to give a message to people for atlas military.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I RISE FROM MY SLUMBER!

So straight up, this is the first volume that doesn't really have a significant jump in animation quality from the previous volumes. This is not a bad thing to be honest, Vol 6 had good animation so I'd rather they just refine what they have and stream-line it rather than trying to upgrade again. Not a bad thing, just something that I have to note right off the bat.

We literally pick up exactly where the last volume left off, complete with being on the plane as they're welcomed to Atlas, flying in to try and meet Ironwood. We get some shots of Atlas and Mantle as they discuss the heavily militarized presence the Kingdom is presenting to anyone coming in. Right away they get into a discussion about actually doing as directed and hoping if they tell the soldiers they need to speak to Ironwood that they'll be allowed to (most don't think they will) or trying to get the lay of the land. Weiss wants to get in touch with Winter but an announcement by Ironwood that's meant to reassure the people plays.

And Ironwood actually looks disheveled, he's got the full beard going on but doesn't wear it well, lines around the eyes, he is (as Ruby points out) tired looking. Dude seems exhausted. Winter is also shown to be in good standing which..everyone treats as a surprise but why would that be? Winter was Ironwood's right hand woman after all. Anyway, after seeing the state of Mantle and Ironwood's address, Qrow points out that he doesn't even know if they should bring the lamp to Ironwood considering that Leo had been in Salem's back pocket for quite a long time and Ironwood seems quite unstable. Maria says they can lay low in Mantle, talk to an old friend of hers, and see where they want to go from there.

Now...here's some big points I give to RT on this. Remember how we keep hearing that the Faunus are discriminated against but we barely see any sort of discrimination? Or how Menagerie is over-populated and not great but looks like a tropical paradise with nothing wrong? Remember how I had some serious problems with that considering how important the whole White Fang storyline was?

Not the case here! Mantle hasn't even been talked about a lot in the series but we still know that its essentially the slums of Atlas after it was no longer the capital of the Kingdom, we also find out why Atlas is hovering in the air like that. Apparently after losing the great war, Atlas' morale was just in the dumps. Considering this is Remnant, that's not just fertile ground for discontent and unrest, its actively dangerous so they did something drastic. They flew up what would become Atlas into the air as both a symbol of what Atlas was capable of and that they could live up in the sky if they wanted to. Which sort of makes sense for a big, grand uplifting gesture but the exact predictable thing happened and it promoted class-ism. The rich and elite live up in Atlas, the poor down in Mantle with in their shadow.

And Mantle shows that. The buildings are crowded, its lit by an almost hellish glow from the mining, everything looks dirty and dingy. We see patrols of the Atlas Knights patrolling the streets while citizens just keep an eye on them, graffiti, kids trying to beat up expensive military equipment. I know there is a long history we're told about for Faunus troubles, but we see very little of it. Mantle? We see it! I almost immediately worry more about the citizens of Mantle than I've ever felt for Faunus but, more importantly to me, Mantle itself feels like it has character. Not as much as like, say, Rapture from Bioshock, but the same vibe. So major probs on that! We also see ads for an election, I'm guessing for the Atlas council featuring a lady that I'm just positive will end up being an important factor in the volume being foreshadowed now. (She's in the new intro for crikey's sake)

We also get the point driven home that Team RWBY and co. is neither subtle nor secretive. Yang gets her picture taken by a little picture robot, which gets it punted by a startled Yang into the street to be run over. They pass a pair of drunks having #drunktalks about the state of Atlas, revealing it has understandably gone into a recession with the Dust embargo but there's vague hopes that'll change but also gives the impression that the layperson of Atlas is generally behind Ironwood but also blaming the other Kingdoms for Atlas' current plight. So Atlas isn't like Haven and Minstrel, this Kingdom already doesn't feel safe, combined with what we've been hearing about Atlas since Volume 3. It all lines up.

We also get one of the drunks accosting the group with a minor confrontation with Blake, where she's asked to let his comments go in order to keep a low profile..but once he spits off to the side and calls her a dirty Faunus, Weiss catapults him into a dumpster saying it was worth it.

So they make it to Maria's friend who turns out to be the doctor that fixes her eyes. Seems to have some memory problems but he also seems to recognize Yang's arm on sight as well as be highly regarded in Atlas. As in he typically works up in Atlas but comes down to run a clinic in Mantle to help out more folks. His wheel chair also doesn't have wheels but four legs that carry him about. Which is cool! He also lays down some more foreshadowing/exposition. Such as the fact that Ironwood has gotten increasingly paranoid, not primarily because of the attack on Beacon though that certainly didn't help matters...he's paranoid because someone didn't just hack the code for their bots but seemed to do it with casual ease. Which means someone who's either a genius, someone who knows the code/system and thus works for Atlas, or both which is what the doctor thinks. We know that its most likely Watts that made the virus and he certainly has the 'insufferable genius' vibe going on but the possibility he works for Atlas is new information.

Weiss brings up that they need to figure out what they're doing and how she doesn't know if she can trust Winter which is..weird, cause nothing has changed in regard to Winter, but brings up the fact the doc has a Schnee in his clinic. Which allows him to correctly identify Team RWBY and he apologizes for the fact that he didn't recognize them sooner with all his daughter has told him about them. Before they can question though, an alarm goes off from a Grim attack which Team RWBY and co. respond to!

So they rush out, wonder what the Kindom defenses are doing as people clear off the street, and take out some sabertooth grim with relative ease, except for Blake who's reduced to supporting Yang since her weapon broke in the scuffle with Adam last volume. The animation is pretty smooth but it doesn't really step up the game, like I said before. Right at the end, when one of the Grim Smilodons is about to ambush one of the people, a green laser comes sweeping in and..

Yeah, Penny is back!

Penny's got a new look, she dices up Grim with lasers, and generally looks like a fusion between a super-hero and a magical girl, all noble and things until she sees Team RWBY and co. Then the old Penny comes out and she tackles Ruby. They also don't really seem to be hiding the fact that Penny's a robot anymore either, though I guess that cat was out of the bag to begin with. Doc explains that Penny is his daughter and her core was salvaged from the Fall of Beacon before RWBY and co. are abruptly ambushed and restrained. Some Atlas special ops soldiers (specifically the Ace Ops apparently) confiscate all of their weapons and rightly point out that our heroes illegally entered the kingdom in a stolen aircraft (they did), disrupted Atlas tech (Yang), and engaged in uncertified Huntsmen activities (they all did) so...they're being arrested. They also confiscate the lamp as well but don't seem to recognize it either. Chapter ends with them all being loaded into the back of a wagon to go off to jail, told they'd get the chance to argue their case later.

Then the new intro plays and its definitely the most ANIME opening of the volume intros, which is pretty cool.

It kind of carries on the trend from the last volume finale, it definitely wasn't bad but it felt surprisingly subdued, the difference being that works for the first episode of a volume but not the last. I also miss the fact we didn't get any big action or info about what the villain's plans this volume are going to entail but I also dont' think its necessary either. Atlas has been set up for a long time, its a hotbed of activity and plot, we shouldn't need to be told/reminded that Atlas is happening. Mantle is a breath of fresh air, I really feel like RT is getting the hang of 'showing' and not 'telling'..you could say they should have learned it a while back but better late than never!

So Penny is back, which everyone expected and I don't even mind that..but I am disappointed in the route they go. For one because it feels implausible that Penny's core was undamaged after that big arse Nevermore landed on her and however much time passed between her 'death' and them finding her remains. For two, since Beacon STILL hasn't been rebuilt or reclaimed from the Grim, it also feels implausible that they managed to recover the core in the first place considering Vale certainly wouldn't have given it to them and Atlas withdrew into itself, so it doesn't seem likely they sent anyone to even try and reclaim Penny.

At the very least, I would expect Penny to...not be exactly the same in personality. Now granted, this could be revealed to not be the case over the course of the Volume, but I feel like its not going to be. I get the feeling Penny is going be good as new and I'm not cool with that. Its a cheap, fan-pandering moment when they could have some very cool story and emotional beats in the story itself and for Ruby specifically. Maybe they still can, I just have my doubts that's what the plan is.

Largely speaking though, enjoyed the Chapter and I'm very much looking forward to the volume! Not least of which is because not since the Fall of Beacon has the story taken place in a location that has a good, varied supporting cast. We've pretty much JUST been with our heroes and villains over the past three volumes, with the addition of a character here or there but there are a lot of characters and explosive elements in Atlas. We have Weiss in Days of Our Schnee with Jacque and Whitley. We have Ironwood, Winter, and the whole Atlas government. We've got Penny and her father back, likely related to Dr. Watts and Atlas rushing technological development without regard for any potential consequences. We have the Ace-Ops as new enemies(rivals?) who Watts seems to have some interest in. We've got the class divide between Atlas and Mantle. We've got the Council elections for Atlas coming up and what seems like a new character being introduced in regards to that.

Honestly Atlas feels way more developed than Vale did and we only just got there. Oh, and we got a glimpse of the relic in Atlas, what seems to be the spear.

[Rawhide]

Please remember that every spoiler box must include the full title of what someone must have watched.

Labelling a spoiler box "Final Thoughts", regardless of what else is in your post, is not enough.

[Ramza00]

I read "musical number" and got excited that there was a scene where the characters sing and dance around. I guess that isn't what you meant though. But hey, my coffee hasn't kicked in yet.

🎶 Baby, it's time to make up your mind
I think that tonight is when our stars align
Honey, it's time to leave the doubt behind
Take my hand 'cause you and I are gonna shine 🎶

Doing another musical number would be a nice callback in-universe, fun for the fans, and a great way to honor Monty Oum for from what I hear he really enjoyed dancing.


I'm pretty indifferent to Jaune's new 'do. Though the more I look at it... I sort of want to tousle it. I wonder if Jaune has the kind of hair that just sort of returns to its normal shape.

That hair has to be gelled, there is no other way it makes sense. I just do not understand why gel / spike it to the angle Jaune choose. It makes no sense, if you are going to gel your hair there are so many better ways he could have done it.


what do they do to jauns hair? is this a question or declaration of idiocity dude is traveling god knows how long to reach the relic and had his first time in city so he enjoys bit of luxury and grabs a haircut or ironwood may order army barber to get that hair in shape as he needs to give a message to people for atlas military.

I am fine with him getting a haircut. In fact I want him to get a haircut, desperately. But my point is the specific hair choice he did was all wrong. It is not even about gel /spikes vs no gel / spikes, it is specifically how the gels / spikes come off. It is just not as it should be...like at all.

My reaction is a mixture of Ruby in Vol 4 Episode 1 opening where Ruby is laughing at Jaune's hoody, and any Blake scene where she has a scowl and some side eye.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Please remember that every spoiler box must include the full title of what someone must have watched.

Labelling a spoiler box "Final Thoughts", regardless of what else is in your post, is not enough.

My bad, I'll go back and fix it.

I do want it on the official record that if someone opened my 'Final Thoughts' spoiler after seeing an entire post clearly labeled for Volume 7 spoilers and got upset for being spoiled, they are a very silly person. :smalltongue: I will make sure that its there though in the future.

[Rawhide]

My bad, I'll go back and fix it.

I do want it on the official record that if someone opened my 'Final Thoughts' spoiler after seeing an entire post clearly labeled for Volume 7 spoilers and got upset for being spoiled, they are a very silly person. :smalltongue: I will make sure that its there though in the future.

Thank you!

It's less about people reading your post where's placed, and more about someone reading it several pages later where someone has quoted part of your post.

[Celestia]

Penny's back!!!!!!!!! Yay!!!!!!!!! :smallbiggrin:
Nuts and Dolts isn't dead yet! :smallbiggrin:

Honestly, at this point, I'd unironically enjoy if they built this up into a Ruby harem for laughs. I mean, they're already almost there. They've got Wiess the tsundere, Penny the deredere, Oscar the dandere, and Cinder the yandere. :smalltongue:

[Ramza00]

Lets of "image" callbacks to earlier volumes, especially the episode Vol 3 Episode 3. It may make some people feel nostalgic, but all I feel is "this is old" for it took literally 4 volumes, literally 4 years to move the story forward and we really got only 2 volumes of story in between that. RWBY the story is moving so slow.

Then again the art has massively improved in those 4 years. So while I am mostly complaining I can at least identify 1 thing that has improved.


And look at what great content RoosterTeeth is publishing on their youtube channel. Notice the real opening in the right corner while RT is "broadcasting" this live action as the main video content.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6ZroB-_pL0

This is Mercury's idea wasn't it? They want us to suffer?

[DeadMech]

Wow the CG has really improved but I'm not so sure about this art direction, and choreography.

[Silverraptor]

Just watched the first episode.
Must say, I was legit surprised they brought back Penny. I was sure the writers had forgotten about her.

[Rawhide]

And look at what great content RoosterTeeth is publishing on their youtube channel. Notice the real opening in the right corner while RT is "broadcasting" this live action as the main video content.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6ZroB-_pL0

This is Mercury's idea wasn't it? They want us to suffer?

Oh that is brilliant!


*

Please remember to include the volume number in the spoiler title.


*

:grumpyface:

(please fix that)

[Fyraltari]

"Days since last nonsense : 0"
*Chuckles*
Yeah, that seems right.

[khadgar567]

well ironwood has plan and I love the winter gibing order to release them in most tsundere way when she sees her sister. and damn it ironwood has both plan and standards as his first order to team was fix their gears with help of R&D department. and we might have interesting news on next week like yang getting flaming mane somehow( okay she is applying dust to herself but point stands)

[Calemyr]

* The recovery of Penny: Pietro says that her core was left on board the arena, which flew back to Atlas. As such, it does track that he'd be able to recover her remains easily.

* Winter: Weiss worships her sister not just for being a badass but for being able to put her foot down when something is clearly wrong (such as when dear ol' dad growing increasingly ruthless). She really thought that if Ironwood went bad, Winter would already be running a rebellion. The fact that she's boldly parroting the company line is a shock to her (because of her idealized image of her sister), even if it's not really a shock to us (because Winter has regularly displayed as reliably militaristic to us).

* The Elites: I have to say, I was impressed by how reasonable and professional the elites were at the end. Yeah, everything they accused the party of was true, and didn't require unreasonable awareness for them to know. It's a new touch of restraint within RWBY to have antagonists that don't (at least at first) appear to be evil evil bad guys. Makes it easier to believe they'll be able to get along and be friends later (which we all know is leading bet, yeah?).

I really wasn't expecting to enjoy this episode, but I found myself extremely pleasantly surprised by the weight and restraint they displayed. The action wasn't as frenetic as it has recently been, but more structured and controlled. The humor is still there, but is now grounded and character-based rather than focused cheap gags and silliness. We aren't told nature of Mantle so much as shown it through careful and thought-out setting design and the brusque defiance and casual racism of the two drunkards. If this episode is any indication of how the volume is going to flow, I have good hopes for it.

[Ramza00]

Calemyr I agree with the improvements of storytelling, but all turns to silver glass and ash in the end, so let's have a guess / bet how long this lasts :smallwink:

[Callos_DeTerran]

* The recovery of Penny: Pietro says that her core was left on board the arena, which flew back to Atlas. As such, it does track that he'd be able to recover her remains easily.

* Winter: Weiss worships her sister not just for being a badass but for being able to put her foot down when something is clearly wrong (such as when dear ol' dad growing increasingly ruthless). She really thought that if Ironwood went bad, Winter would already be running a rebellion. The fact that she's boldly parroting the company line is a shock to her (because of her idealized image of her sister), even if it's not really a shock to us (because Winter has regularly displayed as reliably militaristic to us).


* I mean, we didn't need to know that the core was left on board the arena, that's the last place we saw it. More importantly, when did they mention the arena flew back to Atlas? Last I remember, it was hovering above Grim Central in Vale and recovering the arena would not have been easy. As is the idea the core would be undamaged with how long it could have taken to get the arena back to Atlas (if that's what happened to it). Those are the factors that make it a bit of a stretch for me, as well as disappointment they aren't taking it in a more interesting direction.

*I mean..Weiss is wrong then, flat out. I also never saw anything that would say that Winter was that type but plenty of evidence that she was exactly what she is, a loyal soldier. Weiss knows that too, she's overheard conversations and had talks with her father that Winter wanted to join the army, Jacques refused, Winter joined anyway, Jacques demanded Ironwood send her back, and Ironwood refused. Even then, Weiss acts like its a surprise that Winter is supporting Ironwood at all when there has been nothing to suggest to her that Winter would be doing anything else. Hell, the whole reason Weiss went to Mistral was to meet up with Winter while she was on assignment for Ironwood. Of course the fact that Winter supporting Ironwood might tarnish that idealized image is problematic in its own right to me, because Ironwood so far is not doing anything worthy of a rebellion. He is paranoid and I'm sure very close to that point, but the man is a soldier doing what he knows best to protect his kingdom. Presumably the rest of the council should be picking up Ironwood's slack when it comes to domestic policy, cause we've seen Ironwood both show very little interest in it and not be good at it. Now...as for why they aren't, I hope the rest of the volume touches on that.

*I don't think they're going to build the Ace Corps up as straight villains, I have a feeling they're going to be more of a rival group being manipulated by Watts/Salem then they are straight up antagonists which..yeah, that'll be refreshing!

[Calemyr]

Calemyr I agree with the improvements of storytelling, but all turns to silver glass and ash in the end, so let's have a guess / bet how long this lasts :smallwink:

Okay, so the opener wasn't a great indicator of the second episode. In fairness, there's only a few places where it gets goofy (The rebel's exposition, the Aces' proper introduction, and of course Penny's tour), but that's a much bigger share of the episode than I would have wanted. Overall, it's still good.

[Ramza00]

Okay, so the opener wasn't a great indicator of the second episode. In fairness, there's only a few places where it gets goofy (The rebel's exposition, the Aces' proper introduction, and of course Penny's tour), but that's a much bigger share of the episode than I would have wanted. Overall, it's still good.

No no no, you misread what I meant...though in hindsight the way I phrased the sentence earlier has multiple meanings that you could read it as...you are not a mind reader and I could have been more clear. Oops that was my mistake. :smalleek:

I was trying to say RT is going to screw this up somehow. All things die / change (silver glass / turn ash metaphors) and I wasn't saying this specific episode (Episode 2, Vol 7) ends poorly, but instead questioning how long can RT keep this going before they become RT once again? :smalltongue:

[Mechalich]

No no no, you misread what I meant...though in hindsight the way I phrased the sentence earlier has multiple meanings that you could read it as...you are not a mind reader and I could have been more clear. Oops that was my mistake. :smalleek:

I was trying to say RT is going to screw this up somehow. All things die / change (silver glass / turn ash metaphors) and I wasn't saying this specific episode (Episode 2, Vol 7) ends poorly, but instead questioning how long can RT keep this going before they become RT once again? :smalltongue:


I predict that things will fall apart when it comes to the implementation of Watts' plan. It will probably be something ridiculous and involving a whole bunch of plotholes, since even his rather brief appearance in this episode shows an extremely cavalier attitude to the security protocols of Atlas/Mantle. Notably, if you just randomly shut down a couple dozen security cameras and drone eyes, someone is going to notice that such a thing happened, and they'll be on the lookout for it next time, and if it keeps happening they'll eventually take action.

RWBY has never been good at handling institutional actions as opposed to personal actions (and to be fair their story isn't about institutions for the most part). I expect we'll get another scenario like how all of Mystral's huntsmen/huntresses of any competence got killed off in a rather short period of time and no one locally appeared to notice or do anything about it, and sure Lionheart was turning a blind eye, but he didn't run the academy by himself.

The obvious failure point in Ironwood's big plan is the Atlas army, and its almost certainly going to be the Atlas army, possibly with the addition of an Ace Op traitor. That's par for the shounen course, as it goes, since institutions must fail so that the heroes can triumph, but it's a tricky thing to handle without making an entire population look stupid - which is what happened in the big climax of the last volume - so I imagine it will happen again.

[Ramza00]

New episode 3 is out [and thus to my understanding everyone can see episode 2 for free now.] I paused the episode midway to say RT has vastly improved their craft with storytelling so far 8 minutes in. Lots of decisions of "how" to tell the story that make sense instead of being amateurish like it was before in previous seasons. Now time to retrieve the food from the oven :smallbiggrin: and see if RT somehow disappointed me in some way at the end of the episode.

Edit: Speculating on Weapons, Semblances, and Stories for new characters.


So what Aesop fables all 5 are these from? The Lucky Fisherman for Clover? How about the others? [Googles before posting…has the answer so posting below]

Clover:
Semblance: Good Luck,
Weapon: Fishing Pole
Story: Fisherman’s Good Luck
Vine:
Semblance: Can extend arm and grasp others
Weapon?
Story: The Elm and The Vine.
Elm:
Semblance: Rooting Self in Place [Unmovable?]
Weapon: Rocket Hammer
Story: The Elm and The Vine.
Hare:
Semblance: Speed, Lightning appearing leftovers
Weapon: Exoskeleton
Story: The Tortoise and the Hare.

Marrow:
Semblance: 'stay' / timestop
Weapon: boomerang rifle
Story: The Dog and Its Reflection
Also what type of Faunus is Marrow? Dog, Fox, something else? [Googles] Appears to be dog? Does Marrow play fetch with himself with his boomerang blade?

[khadgar567]

New episode 3 is out [and thus to my understanding everyone can see episode 2 for free now.] I paused the episode midway to say RT has vastly improved their craft with storytelling so far 8 minutes in. Lots of decisions of "how" to tell the story that make sense instead of being amateurish like it was before in previous seasons. Now time to retrieve the food from the oven :smallbiggrin: and see if RT somehow disappointed me in some way at the end of the episode.

Edit: Speculating on Weapons, Semblances, and Stories for new characters.


So what Aesop fables all 5 are these from? The Lucky Fisherman for Clover? How about the others? [Googles before posting…has the answer so posting below]

Clover:
Semblance: Good Luck,
Weapon: Fishing Pole
Story: Fisherman’s Good Luck
Vine:
Semblance: Can extend arm and grasp others
Weapon?
Story: The Elm and The Vine.
Elm:
Semblance: Rooting Self in Place [Unmovable?]
Weapon: Rocket Hammer
Story: The Elm and The Vine.
Hare:
Semblance: Speed, Lightning appearing leftovers
Weapon: Exoskeleton
Story: The Tortoise and the Hare.

Marrow:
Semblance: 'stay' / timestop
Weapon: boomerang rifle
Story: The Dog and Its Reflection
Also what type of Faunus is Marrow? Dog, Fox, something else? [Googles] Appears to be dog? Does Marrow play fetch with himself with his boomerang blade?


okay hare gonna that personal trainer to ruby making sure her smite design gonna be some way cannon plus i kinda like teams new gear. yang having sticky bombs allow her to prepare final surprise on her fights and crescent rose can turn blade 180 kinda helps ruby for better positioning. i think rooster teeth kinda lost the opportunity to give blake better weapon but hey at least makes her gear kinda complete again.
and speaking of here she is kinda perfect teacher to yang and ruby as she uses speed and fists which means sisters can get some serious power up in this volume( better understanding on ruby and nice drawback focused opponent for yang). and good touch on weiss recognizing her dads work she is kinda growing into nice reliable variant on winter which kinda makes schnee families main problem being her dad more understandable. know if we kinda get her brothers mind on view we might pin point the end of snow white arc.

[Rawhide]

*

Thank you, though you still need one more addition. You need to include both the volume and episode, please!

---

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/080/811/b8c.png
---

Crunchyroll is now uploading RWBY for everyone to watch, however they appear to be on the free/public tier, getting it a week behind paying customers of Rooster Teeth First and VRV (Note: VRV includes Crunchyroll for a couple of dollars more than Crunchyroll by itself).

[Callos_DeTerran]

I predict that things will fall apart when it comes to the implementation of Watts' plan. It will probably be something ridiculous and involving a whole bunch of plotholes, since even his rather brief appearance in this episode shows an extremely cavalier attitude to the security protocols of Atlas/Mantle. Notably, if you just randomly shut down a couple dozen security cameras and drone eyes, someone is going to notice that such a thing happened, and they'll be on the lookout for it next time, and if it keeps happening they'll eventually take action.

RWBY has never been good at handling institutional actions as opposed to personal actions (and to be fair their story isn't about institutions for the most part). I expect we'll get another scenario like how all of Mystral's huntsmen/huntresses of any competence got killed off in a rather short period of time and no one locally appeared to notice or do anything about it, and sure Lionheart was turning a blind eye, but he didn't run the academy by himself.

The obvious failure point in Ironwood's big plan is the Atlas army, and its almost certainly going to be the Atlas army, possibly with the addition of an Ace Op traitor. That's par for the shounen course, as it goes, since institutions must fail so that the heroes can triumph, but it's a tricky thing to handle without making an entire population look stupid - which is what happened in the big climax of the last volume - so I imagine it will happen again.


I'm not sure how cavalier it really is. Watts points out that the whole reason they're in Mantle is because they haven't updated any of the software since he wrote it for them, likely because Mantle is a slum and no one cares enough to do it that has the capacity to do it. Meanwhile Watts has clearly kept his skills up to snuff because he is very obviously the source of the Black Queen virus from back in the first 3 volumes which completely over-ruled Atlas' state of the art tech. More importantly, aside from the cameras which could have their footage/times altered to account for his actions, all the rest of what happened can be ascribed to mechanical failure.

In other words, they point out Watts likely couldn't pull this kind of stunt in Atlas itself but because Mantle is..well..Mantle, he can do what he wants and cover his tracks sufficiently to not worry about anyone catching on to him. More importantly, they've been relatively restrained with how they've presented Watts crackign skills considering how schizo RWBY's technology is. Even just the detail that he couldn't just hack into Ironwood's scroll and such was a surprisingly simple detail. It took Ironwood's scroll accidentally being infected by coming into contact with a compromised computer for them to find out about Penny and breaking into one of the Atlas airships in order to assume direct control of the knights. Which is not a detail I've seen a LOT of other shows care about.

[Ramza00]

Tech Speculation at the End of the Volume and thus no real spoilers but lets label this RWBY Vol 7 Episode 2 Spoilers anyway.


Fear brings the grimn. But what causes the most fear? Realizing your fellow human may not have your back in your darkest hour, and thus there is no real security, thus in term no one is coming to save us when the soul-less monsters come to kill us all.

Thus while WATTS can hack the robots to kill everyone again this is a higher level skill when an early level skill is all you need. An early level skill demostrated in Vol 3 and Vol 7 already, the value of misinformation on SALEM's WTCH side.

Show false video or misleading video and people will no longer trust Atlas. A Grimn attack will probably happen immediately, but even if it didn't when Atlas needs to save someone they will not be able to for their hands are tied / overwhelmed and at this point the fear will attract the Grimn and then a zergling rush happens. You only need to be overwhelmed once, matching 10 attacks does not negate attack 11 from happening.

We already know Watts can affect the tech in the lower city. We also know there are giant tv screens everywhere meant to calm the public. The same tv screens can be hacked to mislead the public. The same tech that can be used for good can also be for wicked ends. The same freedom fighter group of the white fang can be co-opted and turn into terrorism group. The same tool can be used in many ways. That is why humans are not tools we must choose if we are all in this together and trust despite our life experiences or to distrust for these same life experiences.

Nations are created not just by what connects us but also by what we choose to forget / forgive even if we are not literally forgetting and we are still angry about the past whose damage can not be undone. This is what SALEM could not learn, you can not undo Ozma's death and trying to do so just creates a cruel mockery of everything. You do not honor the past and you may learn to love a new path ome that is either spite or kindness, and Salem chose spite as is her right to choose spite.


And lets now pivot to Episode 3


We already know Tyrian the Scorpion guy is killing people who are mad at Ironwood. Thus Tyrian is setting up a real fact chain that Ironwood's enemies are disapearing, a fact chain to selective mislead on television later on via Watts.

[LaZodiac]

So I'm probably not going to be coming back to actually watching RWBY, for my health and general "life busy" reasons, but I do hope you all still enjoy it and I'm probably going to hover around watching you all, silently, still wondering if I should pick it up after the big titty genie exposition ride and knowing I probably shouldn't. Sorry to disappoint people who may have been interested in that, I just don't have the time or desire to look at it anymore.

That being said given her new design's look, when/if we hit an episode where Nora is shown to be Trans in some way please tell me so I can be like "Don't like you but still nice *high five*" to her because hell yeah.

[Fyraltari]

So I'm probably not going to be coming back to actually watching RWBY, for my health and general "life busy" reasons, but I do hope you all still enjoy it and I'm probably going to hover around watching you all, silently, still wondering if I should pick it up after the big titty genie exposition ride and knowing I probably shouldn't. Sorry to disappoint people who may have been interested in that, I just don't have the time or desire to look at it anymore.
Oh. :smallfrown:


That being said given her new design's look, when/if we hit an episode where Nora is shown to be Trans in some way please tell me so I can be like "Don't like you but still nice *high five*" to her because hell yeah.

Where is this coming from? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ8oeKXaKwo)

[LaZodiac]

Oh. :smallfrown:



Where is this coming from? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ8oeKXaKwo)

There's a chance that after I publish my book (Soon tm) I'll have some free time to devote to watching the show, I just fell behind and feel like I've been happier not watching it so I'm unsure if I wanted to continue doing so. I'll think about it.

Her new outfit is the trans pride flag. People I have seen are theorizing she's trans because of it, among other things (she's a little orphan girl with no family who took the chance to live properly when the nice emotion-void kid found her).

[Fyraltari]

There's a chance that after I publish my book (Soon tm) I'll have some free time to devote to watching the show, I just fell behind and feel like I've been happier not watching it so I'm unsure if I wanted to continue doing so. I'll think about it.
Heh you do you, if it makes you less happy to watch it, don't watch it for us.


Her new outfit is the trans pride flag. People I have seen are theorizing she's trans because of it, among other things (she's a little orphan girl with no family who took the chance to live properly when the nice emotion-void kid found her).

I didn't know there was a trans pride flag. You learn something everyday.

Guess it makes sense for someone whose team is themed around people dressing up as/pretending to be of the other sex.

[Ramza00]

Guess it makes sense for someone whose team is themed around people dressing up as/pretending to be of the other sex.

I forgot, well not literally forgot, but I had two separate mental silos and did not draw that connection till you mention that.

[DeadMech]

... I guess you could interpret Nora's outfit that way though it kinda feels like that would come out of nowhere. Though... in not exactly the same vein but close...
Qrow and Alpha, the leader guy of that ASop team, have an... odd chemistry together... I wouldn't be surprised if they appear in allot of discussions and fanfics in the very near future. They probably already have, I haven't gone looking.

Also this episode had the absolute least possible subtle flirting between Yang and Blake that has ever appeared in the show previously. Yang really likes that new haircut. It's kinda funny because elsewhere in discussions of the first episode of the season I wanted to just scream into the void over a few people whining about the bumblebee ship. You know... when the two characters barely even so much as looked at one another or spoke a word to one another and were physically about as far away from one another as could even be possible considering much of the episode took place withing a flying tin can with the interior space the size of my bedroom or a single room clinic.

And since I'm trash and have already discussed all this shipping junk... Poor Nora... She's trying so hard to flirt with Lie Ren today. And he's giving her nothing. I mean that's just sorta par for the course with him but Nora looks so dejected this time.

[Ramza00]

... I guess you could interpret Nora's outfit that way though it kinda feels like that would come out of nowhere. Though... in not exactly the same vein but close...
Qrow and Alpha, the leader guy of that ASop team, have an... odd chemistry together... I wouldn't be surprised if they appear in allot of discussions and fanfics in the very near future. They probably already have, I haven't gone looking.

Also this episode had the absolute least possible subtle flirting between Yang and Blake that has ever appeared in the show previously. Yang really likes that new haircut. It's kinda funny because elsewhere in discussions of the first episode of the season I wanted to just scream into the void over a few people whining about the bumblebee ship. You know... when the two characters barely even so much as looked at one another or spoke a word to one another and were physically about as far away from one another as could even be possible considering much of the episode took place withing a flying tin can with the interior space the size of my bedroom or a single room clinic.

And since I'm trash and have already discussed all this shipping junk... Poor Nora... She's trying so hard to flirt with Lie Ren today. And he's giving her nothing. I mean that's just sorta par for the course with him but Nora looks so dejected this time.

If we must discuss shipping junk, lets bring Winter in this.



Okay let's make the drunk noxious uncle into shippable bate. Instead of being eww 🤢😨 let's try to ship Qrow with someone.

First you need to discuss whether Qrow is straight, bi, gay, or some other label. Let's for the sake of argument say Qrow is bi, gay, pan, or some other label. Why would you ship Qrow with Clover Ebi the leader of Ace-Ops? Qrow needs a friend and so far Qrow and Clover have friendship energy where Qrow feels understood for someone can finally relate to him with a quirk they can't control, is trying to empathize with him, and actually may get what Qrow is going through. Clover Ebi understands the pain of being all on your own and how that is not healthy. The fable of aesop where Clover comes from is "A Fisherman's Good Luck" in this fable the Fisherman knows loss, knows what it is to not get your desires, and how the world can be against you. Yet the moral of the fable is there can be a reversal of fortune [aka good luck] and thus you must still have hope and perseverance for if you do not show up then the good luck is not able to happen.

Aka the optimistic / hopeful vs the cynic / skeptic of seeing the same reality. They both see the same thing, but they are the counterpoint of each other viewpoint. Aka see the difference between Wyatt from Westworld and Dolores from Westworld in their "core programming." As Dolores is introduced in the pilot she quotes.


Some people choose to see the ugliness in this world.
The disarray.
I choose to see the beauty.
To believe there is an order to our days, a purpose.



So if not Clover with who do you ship Qrow with, who do you ship him with? Why Ironwood of course! They have Ratigan and Basil energy of the bitter exes who felt misunderstood by their past relationship even though they still love each other.

We see this based of how Qrow picked a fight with Ironwood's new righthand lady Winter. Some people see this as Ironwood and Winter shipping or Winter and Qrow shipping but let me propose that Qrow was picking a fight with Winter for she is the "other woman" that has replaced him as a member of Ironwood's affections. This is why Qrow calls out specialist in particular. Winter is reliable in ways Qrow is not due Qrow's bad luck aura. It is like a further insight this prim and proper lady who has everything down to a science with her technique.

Qrow feels betrayed not just for Ozpin's sake but also his own sake. Communication metaphors, why don't you call me metaphors, that is the phone send button!



Now fast forward to Season 7 Episode 2. Ironwood is so happy to see his ex and feels the need to hug him and it is like he lost family and now found out his loved ones he still cares for are still alive. This is a man in grief only to realize the person he loved even if they are his ex is there and can be a new support system. This is a man who waited till the rest of the party was gone and once it was just him and Qrow he was intimate with the hug and he is trying to repair relations.



I am not saying Qrow and Ironwood is going to be a thing. Quite the opposite. Shipping Energy exist for you can "make the case" for it, just like you can make the case for dozens of different things from the same data, the same visual and aural story. If Qrow is Bi / Gay / Other we have far more evidence that his crush energy is Ironwood and not the new guy.

Then again we only have what 3 minutes or so with new guy having 1 on 1 time with Qrow so you can still develop the possibility, but I am saying we already have plenty of shipping fodder for Qrow, the icky drunk uncle. Now I did not always find Qrow to be pure icky it is fine to be a drunk if you are competent in a fictional narrative story. Well Qrow is not competent, he is talented, but he screws up in so many ways that he is sloppy. He is a get out of jail free card for some problems, while Qrow specifically creates many of the problems that team RWBY and team RNJR experience.


Sidenote do we have a new team name for RWBY and RNJR now that Oscar is part of the team? ORNJ for Orange? Sigh that is icky.


There's a chance that after I publish my book (Soon tm) I'll have some free time to devote to watching the show, I just fell behind and feel like I've been happier not watching it so I'm unsure if I wanted to continue doing so. I'll think about it.

Sad to see you go, but if you do not have enough time then do not watch RWBY. Maybe it will be a better time sink later, but right now with so many other good stories out there it is not something you should waste the 4 to 6 hours it will take and that is assuming you watch it all at once for a volume and do not watch individually and commenting after each episode.

[Ramza00]

New episode RWBY Vol 7 Episode 4 is out for RT subscribers. Lots of stuff moved the story forward, like on 5+ plotlines in the same episode.

This if I understand correctly means everyone else can watch Episode 3 for free so we as a community can get on the same page. :smallsmile:

[RCgothic]

I just blew through all of Rwby up to Vol7 Ep3 in under a week! I started on the Japanese dub of 1-3 as an exercise in advancing my Japanese learning, but continued in English after that.

Seems like not a huge amount really happened in Ep3. Looking forward to 4!

[Ramza00]

I just blew through all of Rwby up to Vol7 Ep3 in under a week! I started on the Japanese dub of 1-3 as an exercise in advancing my Japanese learning, but continued in English after that.

Seems like not a huge amount really happened in Ep3. Looking forward to 4!

So have you not seen RWBY prior to 8 days ago or whatever the exact number is? If so congratulations for your endurance of learning Japanese but also your time management skills of being able to watch all that RWBY in 7 days or so. :smalltongue:

So what are your thoughts of RWBY? For you are a younger fan with the introduction of RWBY and I always appreciate insights of people who are fresher blood than me :smallsmile:

[RCgothic]

Nope, nothing before last Monday! I was on a cottage holiday, so I didn't have much else on. Crunchyroll sure does eat data!

I was attracted by the animation style in the crunchyroll teasers. I thought the snippets were really intriguing - Flighting on top of a train; Cinder underwater; Emerald leaving a hall as Salem has a freakout; The Grimm Reaper bantering with Blake about her artificial eyes. Interest hooked!

[Kantaki]

Okay, after being unable to watch the last season until now (stupid computer) I'm finally caught up.

Can I just say I would be entirely happy if the Apathy never show up again?:smalleek:
I mean it was a great horror two-parter, but I'm entirely with Weiss there- burn those abominations to ash.

And the finale was great.
Both a giant robot and a kaiju?
What more could I ask for?:smallcool:
Salem's flying monkeys of course!

Speaking of the devil, that backstory was both tragic and entirely deserved.
Trying to manipulate a god, seriously what did the girl expect?

Well, thing seem to go relatively smoothly.
Minor hiccups like getting arrested aside.
Oh, and Salem's goons murdering and plotting.
That's probably not ideal.

But on the plus side, second-best robot-girl is back, our heroes are official huntpeople and Atlas isn't a enemy bastion yet.

On the bad side... those hair-dos mutilations.:smallsigh:
Fletcher from the Skullduggery Pleasant books comes to mind.
I wonder if their new Scrolls are also tasers too.
If someone calls their hair cool we'll know...:smallamused:

And it would seem Jaques is still working on that natural death by patricide.
Wonder which kid will get him.
Unless that alliance with Team Evil gets him first.

[RCgothic]

Another fairly nothing-y episode tbh. I could do with seeing the action turned up next time. A few eagle-eyed viewers noted Yang and Blake were still touching for quite a while after their selfie. Not much else to say about this one except I hope Jacques gets what he deserves.

[Ramza00]

New chapter.

[Kantaki]

Is it just me or does Atlas feel kinda… claustrophobic?
When Winter gave Weiss that tour I actually thought something really bad would happen.
Season-granny in isolation was a serious relief.

Also, Clover Comes off as really slimy. Can't tell why, but I don't trust him.

The politican-lady and her entourage seem interesting.
(Cute little lamb:smallamused:)
Not sure if bandits would've been better or worse though…

Speaking of bandits, Jaques' election campaign is positively brilliant
"I'm taking away your jobs. You want them back? Vote for me."
Seriously, when he started talking About the embargo I was expecting him to shoot against Ironwood, not himself.

On the plus side Penny remains great and we get to see Neon and her Team.
Not that I recognized them at first.:smallredface::smallbiggrin:

[LaZodiac]

Neon

What did we do to receive such punishment?

[Ramza00]

What did we do to receive such punishment?

I would reverse the question, what did we failed to do in order to prevent this?

[Kantaki]

What did we do to receive such punishment?

Don't blame me. I was good.
Well, good-ish.
By necromancer standards.
That guy in the red coat totally deserved that zombie-horde, alright?

Err, I mean…
At least we got to watch Nora beat her up?:smallamused:

[LaZodiac]

I have no real desire to watch RWBY but Penny being adorable might just claw me into it because I just saw a gif of her getting super excited to fist bump Ruby and lining it all up and **** and hitting her hard enough to cause Ruby's hand to go red and like, on the one hand that's a dumb anime trope that doesn't fit with the series or anything about Aura but also it's really funny and cute and I appreciate this lesbian and her weird girlfriend.

Her face looks hella weird though it's uncomfortable.

[Ramza00]

New Episode out.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Ugh..I haven't been able to watch the current volume much at all since the...third chapter, I gotta catch up..

EDIT: Spoiler free, but how has it been so far?

[Rawhide]

EDIT: Spoiler free, but how has it been so far?

I am SPOILER SPOILER the current season. It is really SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER, especially the SPOILER bits. I'm enjoying it.

[Ramza00]

Ugh..I haven't been able to watch the current volume much at all since the...third chapter, I gotta catch up..

EDIT: Spoiler free, but how has it been so far?

If LaZodiac was watching she would be happy there are more of Character X moments and less of Character Y moments for Character Y stole joy for LaZodiac and Character X brought joy. Thus LaZodiac would be happy for on that surface level this is an improvement.

But besides that, it is the same RWBY that has been around for years just with new character for they are in a new location. Yet we still see old characters from WTCH and so on. Not better or worse than old RWBY, just a "a new level" with the same "gameplay" by which I mean, a new locale with new characters, but everything is so familiar that sometimes RWBY even goes meta to break the familiarity loop.

Oh yeah there is a Dog Faunus, that is another improvement for dogs improve everything, so if I can't have my Zwei I will take another good boy.

[Mechalich]

EDIT: Spoiler free, but how has it been so far?

The current season continues the trend for RWBY to go slower and slower as time passes that seems to infect all shounen shows (this is partly an affect of the expanded cast, since this season has more characters in one place than pretty much ever before). This volume is, however, much more politically driven, and to a degree mature about its politics, than previous volumes.

Unfortunately, the nature of this volume's principle villain means it turns on issues of system security, that RWBY is woefully unequipped to handle. If you've ever been annoyed by poor portrayals of 'hacking' in a fictional series before, this is sure to annoy.

[Rawhide]

{snip}

If you're talking about the current season as a whole, please somehow note the most recent episode you've seen.

---


I just blew through all of Rwby up to Vol7 Ep3 in under a week! I started on the Japanese dub of 1-3 as an exercise in advancing my Japanese learning, but continued in English after that.

Seems like not a huge amount really happened in Ep3. Looking forward to 4!

I just discovered this. If you watched RWBY: Volume 1–3: The Beginning, you've actually missed some scenes and even entire episodes. (There were Japanese home releases that included everything, so if you watched those instead you have seen everything.)


The series serves as a "digest" version of the Beacon Arc. Some scenes are cut to fit a traditional television episode run time. The episodes "The Badge and The Burden", "The Badge and The Burden, Pt.2", "Jaunedice", "Jaunedice, Pt.2", "Forever Fall" and "Forever Fall, Pt.2" were left out completely.

---

Christmas break. (https://roosterteeth.com/g/post/489f3ccd-e664-4e8e-a8b4-9ee9527ec8eb)

[Calemyr]

Ugh..I haven't been able to watch the current volume much at all since the...third chapter, I gotta catch up..

EDIT: Spoiler free, but how has it been so far?

Spoiler Free reaction? It's RWBY, but moreso - for good and ill.

The best bit is that the volume has really doubled and tripled down on character interactions. People talk to each other in this volume, with alarming regularity and surprisingly decent writing quality, and it's quite refreshing.

The action is limited so far, but is generally of decent quality. We don't have any Oum-level choreography, but the V6 finale was an unexpected treat on that regard (half of it, anyway). What we get is nice and polished and better animated than we've seen before, but lacks the audacity that made the first three volumes worth watching.

The plot is denser and darker than usual, with a number of factions being at odds without the classic excuse of "just being evil" (though evil factions still exist, naturally). The show handles this tone with a level of maturity I honestly didn't expect given its track record. It isn't afraid of having moments of silliness, but it's surprisingly good at keeping the goofiness contained and stopping it from spilling into moments that should be serious.

The cast bloats a fair bit with the addition of a number of Atlas factions, which simultaneously gives the RWBY crew the chance to strut their stuff with their inventive character designs as well as split the already insufficient spotlight even further.

The one thing I'm less pleased with, and I completely understand this is a matter of personal preference, is the increased focus on shipping. It was always a thing, I know, dating back to the love triangle between Pyrrha, Jaune, and Weiss back when we counted a ten minute episode as a red-letter day, but it has continued to grow and consume everything in its path. To put this as bluntly as I can: I signed on to watch cute girls kick serious ass in epic fashion while the laws of physics weep impotently in a corner, not endure a teen drama about who who likes who and how far love's many and sundry expressions have advanced. I could accept it as a compromise of "why not both?" if the shipping seemed in service to the plot, but it mostly serves as a distraction from it.
(I almost went with "Sailor Moon crossed with Dark Souls rather than Dawson's Creek", but thought the better of it.)
All told Volume 7 is surprisingly solid, mature, and well done - especially when compared to the rest of this wildly inconsistent series. So far, anyways - Volume 6 was doing quite well in its first half as well, but started to drop the ball in the second. I'd put it on the level of Volume 3, which is probably the highest tier of the series by my reckoning.

[Reddish Mage]

I have to agree the shipping in Volume 7 does not serve the plot...yet. How often, however, do romantic subplots end up getting intertwined and proving crucial to the resolution of the main plot?

Isn't the whole series about some sort of lover's quarrel? I mean come on, the two sides are lead by former lovers that literally go through life, death, resurrection, and immortality for each other (not necessarily in that order). They finally end up getting back together only to break up over some sort of argument over philosophy and...politics. Then they go to war a they try to impose their respective vision on humanity.

Girl meets boy, boy dies, girl seeks to resurrect boy, girl gets immortality instead, boy returns, boy and girl have kids, boy and girl breakup over politics, boy and girl spend the rest of the time at war while dominating human history #ExplainRWBY'sHistoryBadly

[Ramza00]

I have to agree the shipping in Volume 7 does not serve the plot...yet. How often, however, do romantic subplots end up getting intertwined and proving crucial to the resolution of the main plot?

Isn't the whole series about some sort of lover's quarrel? I mean come on, the two sides are lead by former lovers that literally go through life, death, resurrection, and immortality for each other (not necessarily in that order). They finally end up getting back together only to break up over some sort of argument over philosophy and...politics. Then they go to war a they try to impose their respective vision on humanity.

Girl meets boy, boy dies, girl seeks to resurrect boy, girl gets immortality instead, boy returns, boy and girl have kids, boy and girl breakup over politics, boy and girl spend the rest of the time at war while dominating human history #ExplainRWBY'sHistoryBadly

No you explained RWBY quite well. Hero's Journey stories are often nonsense at first glance where things do not make sense at first look, only via multiple point of view shifts at specific nexuses does everything make sense, everything only makes sense with the proper context. That is the whole point of a Hero's Journey to understand an individual is a seed who will one day change via transformation into other stages of plant-hood (the seed becomes the growth, the growth becomes the tree, the tree bears the flower, the flower creates the change that will cause the other part of the tree to make new seeds. Cyclic growth to compliment linear growth, to understand the world sometimes we ourselves must change.)

Well the world is much the same way. The world is absurd on the face of it, and we must either learn to accept it, change it, and if we can not accept or change it, then there is one more philosophical option per Albert Camus.

-----

Hero's Journeys are an interplay of telling a sequential linear story but also telling a story with deconstruction and reconstruction as two of its core themes. You tell both of these stories simultaneously linear and non-linear. Now not everything is a Hero's Journey and literature, cinema, tv, etc is worse when everything tries to be a Hero's Journey story. But when your story incorporates world wide travel out of your frame of reference of the protagonist, or your story incorporates lots of time shifting for the same protagonist over a long period such as decades it will often start incorporate Hero's Journey elements. The alternative is some form of projection story such as the colonialism story where person from out of town thinks the rest of the world is strange for it is not like their location they are familiar with and thus it is the duty of the rest of the world to change to suit the whims of such a person. I find these stories icky where the world must change through domination of ones will but some people love them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

-----

So yeah shipping is at the core of RWBY and is the cause of the drama that allows our 4 girls to do monster fights where they tell physics to go cry in the corner. Many stories are like this with the shipping being the source of the strife yet simultaneously a temporary harmony.

Oh yeah you can tell a Hero's Journey story in a way that is unsatisfactory, in fact most hero's journey stories are just bad. The interplay of the linear and the non-linear stories simultaneously is often too much for many writers to tell in a way that the reader feels satisfied with the result. Even the "greats" get it wrong a lot of times. For example most everyone loves Lord of the Rings, but how many people love the Silmarillion, how many people got how to reach "the land of the west" you no longer can sail to the west in the straight line, even though you used to be able to do so, instead you must part the veil of reality and only the true mystics can thus find the "land of the west" anymore after Numeror sank into the sea. Aka this is an illusion to the grail castle archetype no longer being part of this world, yet sometimes people can find the grail, find the otherworld and ask them for aid, or to leave our reality and enter the otherworld.

My God so many Hero's Journey stories are so bad, so why should we be surprised RWBY is much the same way. We have to love to RWBY for the simple things, the things about 4 Girls being the [censored] out of monsters and telling physics to go cry in a corner.

RWBY is often bad when it tries to do this even though I do love the opening narration.


Narrator: So you may prepare your guardians, build your monuments to a so-called "free world", but take heed... there will be no victory in strength.

Roman and his henchmen enter the shop, the camera lowering to a young girl wearing a hooded red cloak in the corner of the shop, reading a weapons magazine.

Ozpin (voice over): But perhaps victory is in the simpler things that you've long forgotten. Things that require a smaller, more honest soul.

[LaZodiac]

Looks like trans Nora is dead, because this just happened. (https://66.media.tumblr.com/8b301b1ac601765ceb0a3e124f7b94cd/ea0090bf00873cf6-f3/s640x960/ca9609fd2f578898ea4eb44b6ed4bf51be57b826.png)

So, question for all y'all. Who is this character?

[Fyraltari]

Looks like trans Nora is dead, because this just happened. (https://66.media.tumblr.com/8b301b1ac601765ceb0a3e124f7b94cd/ea0090bf00873cf6-f3/s640x960/ca9609fd2f578898ea4eb44b6ed4bf51be57b826.png)

So, question for all y'all. Who is this character?

She*'s a Huntress, or at least some kind of fighter, acting as a bodyguard to one of Ironwood's political opponent, the one who genuinely wants to help the poor people of Mantle but has to be kept in the dark about Salem for now so that Ruby can feel guilty for keeping secrets. May hasn't had much to do for now besides antagonizing one of Ironwood's Hunters, something thzat given what happened in EP 6 is definetely going to escalate.

Her gender identity hasn't been mentionned on the show for now but she's onmy had, what, two scenes?

*I think

[LaZodiac]

She*'s a Huntress, or at least some kind of fighter, acting as a bodyguard to one of Ironwood's political opponent, the one who genuinely wants to help the poor people of Mantle but has to be kept in the dark about Salem for now so that Ruby can feel guilty for keeping secrets. May hasn't had much to do for now besides antagonizing one of Ironwood's Hunters, something thzat given what happened in EP 6 is definetely going to escalate.

Her gender identity hasn't been mentionned on the show for now but she's onmy had, what, two scenes?

*I think

They use female pronouns in the tweet so she's a girl.

Who is Henry Marigold? Is that like, the ****ing steampunk loser on Salem's side? I forget.

Point is cool she's a nothing character. Nice.

[Fyraltari]

They use female pronouns in the tweet so she's a girl.

Who is Henry Marigold? Is that like, the ****ing steampunk loser on Salem's side? I forget.

Point is cool she's a nothing character. Nice.

Apparently, he (Henry) (https://rwby.fandom.com/wiki/Henry_Marigold) is a nothing character.

Well she's a new character, there's been quite a few this season so none of them are very developped right now.

[Ramza00]

Speculation for LaZodiac about said characters based off minor spoilers and fairy tales.


So we are talking about May Marigold.

We already met her cousin Henry Marigold during Volume 4. I do not remember his name but I remember his face. He is actually the one who set Weiss’s plot moving forward, the inciting incident that lead to Weiss point of attack plot wise.

Henry Marigold was the jerk hitting on Weiss at the party. I do not remember the details but Henry said something about Beacon or the Faunus this caused Weiss to get angry, which led to her confrontation with her father followed by Weiss sneaking out plus probably disinheriting herself.

——

May Marigold has no real significant speaking lines so far but she is part of the Robin Hood gang under the politician Robyn Hill. May almost robbed the truck which Ruby, Penny, Qrow, and new guy was in but does not for supposedly Ironwood’s project will help the world even though May believes this dust belongs to the betterment of Mantle the slums underneath flying city Atlas.

So I would not be surprised if May Marigold is supposed to be Lady Marián from the Robin Hood myths since Marián is associated with May Day. In Robin Hood myths that I barely remember in later stories she is a noblewoman who still fancies Robin despite her class and Robin being at war with the rich. In earlier stories Marián is a shepherdess.

Maybe I am wrong in my speculation but I hope I am right for it would be great to have a Trans Woman in a relationship to the new woman Robyn Hill character who is getting a lot of screen time in Vol 7.

[Rawhide]

{snip}

This is the first time I've seen a post in here that doesn't quite fit the required format of listing the volume and episode number.

If you're talking about future episodes (and don't know which episode in particular), please make it clear that you're talking about an unknown future (unbroadcast) episode and list the date of when the information was posted (preferably in international date format or with named months).


{snip}

Likewise here.


{snip}


{snip}

These spoiler boxes didn't have a name at all.

[LaZodiac]

This is the first time I've seen a post in here that doesn't quite fit the required format of listing the volume and episode number.

If you're talking about future episodes (and don't know which episode in particular), please make it clear that you're talking about an unknown future (unbroadcast) episode and list the date of when the information was posted (preferably in international date format or with named months).


I legitimately know none of the information you've requested. I didn't know if this character did or did not get revealed in an episode yet. It turns out the character in question has been in previous episodes already released, and this is from the twitter of a voice actor regarding that character and no actual plot points.

That said I'll keep that in mind in the future.

[Rawhide]

I legitimately know none of the information you've requested. I didn't know if this character did or did not get revealed in an episode yet. It turns out the character in question has been in previous episodes already released, and this is from the twitter of a voice actor regarding that character and no actual plot points.

That said I'll keep that in mind in the future.

It is an unusual situation, I didn't think I'd see the day when we would have one that didn't quite fit.

The date posted should be on the tweet (if you see or find the original tweet, because the screenshot you posted had relative time), or you can pull the date it was reposted on Tumblr if you don't know/can't find that. Failing the ability to find any of this information, you could then put the date you found the information yourself as a last resort ("Found by me at: blah time").

Basically, if you don't know the episode number, please look for some identifying mark so that people can make an informed choice (especially a week or more later).

[LaZodiac]

It is an unusual situation, I didn't think I'd see the day when we would have one that didn't quite fit.

The date posted should be on the tweet (if you see or find the original tweet, because the screenshot you posted had relative time), or you can pull the date it was reposted on Tumblr if you don't know/can't find that. Failing the ability to find any of this information, you could then put the date you found the information yourself as a last resort ("Found by me at: blah time").

Basically, if you don't know the episode number, please look for some identifying mark so that people can make an informed choice (especially a week or more later).

I'll keep that in mind in the future, if I end up finding more stuff worth sharing.

[Kantaki]

You know, I kinda expected some dark secret behind Penny, but more of the "was a real girl" variety, not her father literally tearing his soul apart to animate her.
No wonder he got the uncurable cough of death.:smalleek:
And he does that again and again?
Now that I call a loving parent.:smallfrown:

Also, Ironwood should be careful that doesn't make things worse to make them better.
I mean yeah, he has a point*, but Blake and Yang definitely made the right call telling Robyn.

Speaking off, her semblance implies trust issues.:smallamused:

*And PTSD from the Battle of Beacon, judging by those flashbacks.

[Ramza00]

So I am two episodes behind with RWBY and there is a new one coming out in a few days.

Is anyone up to date?

[Silverraptor]

So I am two episodes behind with RWBY and there is a new one coming out in a few days.

Is anyone up to date?

Up to date for a free watcher. (I'm cheap.)

[Rater202]

I'll be honest I'm probably never gonna catch up.

[Rawhide]

I am…

[Ramza00]

New episode of RWBY and it is still bad, but is it getting better?

[Ramza00]

New Episode (Episode 11 for Subscribers) things happen, new music, etc. I want this season to be over so everyone can be on the same page and we can talk about it 🎲

[Ramza00]

New Episode, and 3 characters have had their best moments in a single episode (episode 12 for subscribers.) The series is getting good right now but I sense the end of the season coming soon. [*googles*] Yeah a total of 13 episodes. Soon we can talk about the series without spoiler blocks and everyone can get caught up. :smalltongue:

[KatsOfLoathing]

Now that the season's over and the forums are back up, I figured I'd give my two cents.

Overall, this was a good season, definitely comparable to season 6 in quality and leaps and bounds above 4 or 5.

The action is a little sparing, mostly clustered around the beginning and end of the season (and my patience is starting to run a little thin for generic Grimm filler battles), but still high-quality overall. RWBY vs the AceOps was a season highlight for me (Weiss wins a fight by herself for once! She's come so far), Cinder vs. Penny and Winter in the finale was a lot of fun too. The series continues to be inconsistent with how durable a person's Aura is supposed to be, and whether breaking it knocks them out or leaves them vulnerable to be knocked out, but we can't have everything.

Dialogue and character, on the other hand, were surprisingly pretty good, especially among the supporting cast. Ren, Nora, and Oscar get a lot of focus this season (though Jaune is kinda sidelined as a consequence), which was a plus for me after S6 neglected all three of them. Robin was a believable new addition that could function as antagonist or ally depending on the day, though her voice actress got a little histrionic for me at times. Ironwood's descent into villainy was frustrating to me, but in a good way, because it felt entirely organic for what we've known of him so far. And getting more Penny is always a good thing.

I have to admit I'm lukewarm on the ending, though, given how much of a cliffhanger it is. I know the RWBY crew is dedicated to thirteen episodes per season, but I feel that we definitely could've benefited from a few more episodes to bring Salems' invasion of Solitas to a more solid conclusion. Is the next season going to be entirely focused on the battle for Atlas? Or is something else going to happen? It feels a little untethered for me.

Overall, S6/7 have slowly but surely rebuilt my faith for RWBY after 4/5 tore it down. I'm looking forward to see what's next.

[LaZodiac]

I think my favorite part of not watching RWBY is comparing reviews of it from people who don't like and are watching it vs people who do like and are watching it, because it really just seems like a completely utterly different show.

[Ramza00]

Would anyone enjoy me doing a RWBY Vol 7 Rewatch and Review? Or has everyone moved on from this show.

If I do such a thing it would be watching only a single episode per day and then doing a review, but I have no clue how long it would take for me to do it.

[Kantaki]

Would anyone enjoy me doing a RWBY Vol 7 Rewatch and Review? Or has everyone moved on from this show.

If I do such a thing it would be watching only a single episode per day and then doing a review, but I have no clue how long it would take for me to do it.

I would read it.
Still have to watch the last few episodes myself though.

[Rawhide]

If I do such a thing it would be watching only a single episode per day and then doing a review, but I have no clue how long it would take for me to do it.

13 days.

[Fyraltari]

Would anyone enjoy me doing a RWBY Vol 7 Rewatch and Review? Or has everyone moved on from this show.

If I do such a thing it would be watching only a single episode per day and then doing a review, but I have no clue how long it would take for me to do it.

Sure. Sounds fun.

Can we all agree that Qrow allying with Tyrian against Clover was astronomically dumb?

[Ramza00]

13 days.

Laughs that sounds like work. :smallwink:

[LaZodiac]

Sure. Sounds fun.

Can we all agree that Qrow allying with Tyrian against Clover was astronomically dumb?

"Hm, murderous psychopath who is literally trying to kill me and everyone else in the plane, OR the guy who has been flirting with me this entire season. Who to choose..."

I guess Clover is a real fitting Lucky Fisherman because he's a MASSIVE bait.

[Anyr]

"Hm, murderous psychopath who is literally trying to kill me and everyone else in the plane, OR the guy who has been flirting with me this entire season. Who to choose..."

I guess Clover is a real fitting Lucky Fisherman because he's a MASSIVE bait.


It feels like the writers really wanted a specific outcome, without knowing how to get there. So they just had the characters make insane decisions.

Episode 11 has this issue as well. Ironwood challenges Watts alone, in an arena full of hackable technology. I actually enjoyed the fight itself. The circumstances were just painfully contrived. Likewise for the aftermath. Watts traps one of Ironwood's arms; Then declares victory, and turns his back on the fully conscious enemy. Even for someone as arrogant as him, that's a stretch. Ironwood didn't need to sacrifice an arm. He could have just thrown something solid at the back of Watts' head!

Then there's the Salem scene. The writers needed a Seer Grimm to appear in Ironwood's office at a dramatic moment. So they have Ironwood carry the Grimm there in a bag. The paranoid General doesn't bother to search this container first: Even though it belonged to one of Salem's top subordinates, who was trying to sabotage Amity Arena. No concerns about a bomb? Apparently not. Because the bag needs to end up in a specific place. So, just like with Qrowe and Watts, Ironwood does what the plot requires of him.

[Fyraltari]

It feels like the writers really wanted a specific outcome, without knowing how to get there. So they just had the characters make insane decisions.

Episode 11 has this issue as well. Ironwood challenges Watts alone, in an arena full of hackable technology. I actually enjoyed the fight itself. The circumstances were just painfully contrived. Likewise for the aftermath. Watts traps one of Ironwood's arms; Then declares victory, and turns his back on the fully conscious enemy. Even for someone as arrogant as him, that's a stretch. Ironwood didn't need to sacrifice an arm. He could have just thrown something solid at the back of Watts' head!

Then there's the Salem scene. The writers needed a Seer Grimm to appear in Ironwood's office at a dramatic moment. So they have Ironwood carry the Grimm there in a bag. The paranoid General doesn't bother to search this container first: Even though it belonged to one of Salem's top subordinates, who was trying to sabotage Amity Arena. No concerns about a bomb? Apparently not. Because the bag needs to end up in a specific place. So, just like with Qrowe and Watts, Ironwood does what the plot requires of him.
Also Ironwood didn't kill Watts because he knows he'll have plot stuff to do in the later seasons I guess.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I'll say this, I overall enjoyed this volume which also...makes it weird to talk about. The volume was good but not in a standout way that makes me want to talk about it, because its largely things that I've already said before in that its a lot of small improvements that overall make the show better. But there's no...standout scene/scenes that make me want to go 'this was great, I really want to see more of this!'

It also wasn't bad, not enough to critique something or figure out why it was wrong and how it could be improved. I suppose there's a few areas that I could touch upon...

Over all the pacing for the volume is just fine, it moves at a bit of a clip but at the same time its also showing a passage of time. Team RWBY+ are taking jobs as Huntsmen and helping around Atlas, they're training in combat, there an entire political campaign going on. Moving quickly makes sense but it lacks the smaller, emotional beats that earlier volumes did rather well. There's also some facets of the story this volume that I wish had been given more time to breath.

Not to remind anyone of it, but Blake's personal story got dragged out over the course of two volumes and a touch of a third. There's reasons for that, Blake is (apparently) a popular character and the Faunus/White Fang are a big part of the setting that needed resolution as well. However, Weiss does not get this same time given to her personal story. Hell, she gets barely any time given to it at all and I'm not just unhappy because Weiss is (in my mind at leasT) a superior character to Weiss but this was a better story line as well. Why was Whitley suddenly just as much a victim as Weiss/Winter of their father when he was the little s*** that manipulated Weiss into losing her inheritance? Since when has Weiss' mother been bugging Jacque and why? Where's the butler? Why did Winter and Jacques never interact with one another? Atlas has been built up as a place where things are going to reach a turning point of one kind or another, so to have one of those big plotlines not just wrapped up so quickly but so neatly is a bit jarring.

Its also a case where slowing the pace down a touch and letting this story breath would have been very fulfilling, at least for this fan because RWBY is, undoubtedly, an action show but this would have eben a great chance to sprinkle in something different to spice things up. They did it a little bit, but not enough. Again, IMO.

I liked them, from what we got to see of them. I do think it was a mistake to label them as the best Huntsmen in Atlas just for RWBY, some battle tested but still young huntresses to take them out because..its escalation that didn't need to happen but it made sense and its a common issue with shows like this so I can't knock them too much for this. So why am I bringing up the Ace Operatives? Because they show the clearest sign of an improvement in the fight choreography in the post-Monty Oum era of the show. And the best thing to compare it to?

The much maligned (deservedly so in many ways) fight at the end of Volume 5. THIS is how a fight like that is done well. The combatants are spread out so there's reason for why they aren't explicitly helping each other out, they made good use of Hare and Ruby's speed to transition from one fight to another. The tactics and emotions, for as much as we knew about the Ace Operatives made plenty of sense. There was some degree of tactics between the fights, no real combo attacks from the Ace Operatives but, that made sense (TO A DEGREE) since they weren't all on the same page.

Was it perfect? No, but it was a DAMN sight better than the battle for Haven where you had single fights that weren't bad (Weiss vs. Vernal) and a cool transition one, but otherwise it felt like everyone was separated fro one another when in reality they were all in the same room.

Qrow and Tyrian teaming up was not the smartest thing that Qrow's done, admittedly, but it makes sense as a panic decision he made with his nieces (team) in danger when he has absolutely no chance against Fisher on his own and Fisher isn't going to let him run. That said..Qrow is dumb for not expecting the serial killer to be..well...a serial killer and taking steps to avoid incidental murder. Also, why is Qrow suddenly bisexual this volume? Who knows but it was super weird and out of left field.

As a whole, this was a more fun conflict and story line to follow throughout the volume but here's my main problems with it.

1) Robin is not just unsympathetic, she's unlikable. And as the face of Mantle, RT probably was intending for her to be a likable person for the audience to root for. She's not. She's not 'on the edge of doing the wrong thing to better help the people of Mantle' like seems to be the intent, she is well over the line into maliciously sabotaging Atlas and demanding information that she has no right to. This is also where spacing out the election part of the story line this volume would have really benefit her character.

2) Ironwood does not have the wrong idea by the end of the volume. The RWBY act like he's some heartless monster dooming Mantle to save his own hide or making a 'the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many' argument but that's simply not the case. For one, the volume just seems to forget that there's people living on Atlas as well as in Mantle, possibly more people than in Mantle! Its not just military personnel up there and Ironwood has just as much an obligation to them as he does the people of Mantle. Second, he's not just saving the rich and casting off the poor, he is actively keeping the Staff of Creation out of Salem's reach in the process which is his main goal in what seems to be an unwinnable scenario with Salem explicitly on her way and the Grim already attacking Mantle. If he can save a few and also remove Salem's win condition from being on the field at the same time, he SHOULD take that chance. RWBY's argument basically boils down to 'well, we should try to save everyone' which makes perfect sense for Ruby to make that argument but its a child's logic and RWBY (the show) treats her answer as if it is objectively correct when it's not. If RWBY had some secret information that could have turned the tide or had a risky plan to save everyone and the staff at the same time that Ironwood just didn't want to take a chance on, that would be one thing. The show's stance would be more fitting and reasonable, but that's not the case. Even if they did, Ironwood is explicitly given many reasons throughout the volume that he can't trust them because they can, and have, kept secrets from him and betrayed his trust.

That said..Ironwood's character development is pretty spot-on for this volume, even his fight with Watts makes sense...though not him not checking the bag before he got back to his office. That should have happened long before that point but they wanted Salem to address and meet everyone, not just Ironwood so he picked up an idiot ball for a hot minute there, not that this hurt anything. Still got chills when he told Oscar to call him General and felt honest regret that the situation got to that point, even if I perfectly understood why.

Those are my big take-aways this volume, but yeah..it was a good volume..probably the most well-rounded one for RWBY as a whole but a jack of all trades is often a master of none. There's no low lows or big highs.

[Rawhide]

Yang plays Beat Saber. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flAsTHJ6mlU)

[Epinephrine_Syn]

As a whole, this was a more fun conflict and story line to follow throughout the volume but here's my main problems with it.

1) Robin is not just unsympathetic, she's unlikable. And as the face of Mantle, RT probably was intending for her to be a likable person for the audience to root for. She's not. She's not 'on the edge of doing the wrong thing to better help the people of Mantle' like seems to be the intent, she is well over the line into maliciously sabotaging Atlas and demanding information that she has no right to. This is also where spacing out the election part of the story line this volume would have really benefit her character.

2) Ironwood does not have the wrong idea by the end of the volume. The RWBY act like he's some heartless monster dooming Mantle to save his own hide or making a 'the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many' argument but that's simply not the case. For one, the volume just seems to forget that there's people living on Atlas as well as in Mantle, possibly more people than in Mantle! Its not just military personnel up there and Ironwood has just as much an obligation to them as he does the people of Mantle. Second, he's not just saving the rich and casting off the poor, he is actively keeping the Staff of Creation out of Salem's reach in the process which is his main goal in what seems to be an unwinnable scenario with Salem explicitly on her way and the Grim already attacking Mantle. If he can save a few and also remove Salem's win condition from being on the field at the same time, he SHOULD take that chance. RWBY's argument basically boils down to 'well, we should try to save everyone' which makes perfect sense for Ruby to make that argument but its a child's logic and RWBY (the show) treats her answer as if it is objectively correct when it's not. If RWBY had some secret information that could have turned the tide or had a risky plan to save everyone and the staff at the same time that Ironwood just didn't want to take a chance on, that would be one thing. The show's stance would be more fitting and reasonable, but that's not the case. Even if they did, Ironwood is explicitly given many reasons throughout the volume that he can't trust them because they can, and have, kept secrets from him and betrayed his trust.

That said..Ironwood's character development is pretty spot-on for this volume, even his fight with Watts makes sense...though not him not checking the bag before he got back to his office. That should have happened long before that point but they wanted Salem to address and meet everyone, not just Ironwood so he picked up an idiot ball for a hot minute there, not that this hurt anything. Still got chills when he told Oscar to call him General and felt honest regret that the situation got to that point, even if I perfectly understood why.


Ironwood's idea is absolutely bat**** crazy, though it doesn't seem that way primarily because team RWBY needs to not challenge the practical side because then ironwood would see how absurd it is and then how would plot happen?

Let's take this out to its logical conclusion. Atlas flies up into orbit, uses space bubble magic to keep everyone safe and secure, leaving mantle to die and become Salem Town. Horray, the relic is safe, and they can wait out the crisis because their food reserves are secure.

What happens when those food reserves run out?

In this hypothetical where hiding in the atmosphere is necessary to keep out of Salem's reach, they can't just come back down to do trade for food. They're going to have a bitch of a time growing their own food up there too. It might be possible to clear out enough lands to grow some food to keep a couple people alive, but it's certainly going to be significantly less than the population is now.

And that's assuming when Salem conquers the rest of remnant and had decades to lay around with nothing but time to think she never dreams up a way to get to Atlas too. If she ever manages to get even the smallest bit of her influence up there, then with finite dust supplies and a ghost crew aboard the island, the odds don't look good.

[LaZodiac]

Don't forget the other issue that dust doesn't work as it gets higher up in the atmosphere. All of their tech's gonna stop working.

It's a textbook case of bad writing; the plan Ironwood has is Never Going To Happen, since Salem's whale attack will ground them. Ergo the writers never bothered making it make sense, since "well it's not going to succeed anyway so why waste time making the plan even be sensible".

Which is a mistake, obviously.

[Epinephrine_Syn]

I might be wrong, but I think that plan flew out the window along with Penny. The maiden powers were their key to get to the levitating rod to change the settings on it, and now that they're gone none of this'll happen. Salem's arrival will do a lot of damage, but stopping him from slamming the evac button's not one of them.

Also, some people were vaguely annoyed about there being not as much buildup to it, but I am incredibly hype for Maiden!Penny. There doesn't need to be two full seasons of foreshadowing for something like this to work, given it's a Right Place, Right Time thing. It's a reason to keep her around, it lets the ruby team have access to the maiden powers without dumping it on the main protags, and the fact that we've established a hardcore difference between "fully realized maiden" and "newbie" (aka cinder getting her ass handed to her effortlessly) means that Penny won't just bulldoze any relevant obstacles in their path.

[Silverraptor]

Yang plays Beat Saber. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flAsTHJ6mlU)

That was actually quite enjoyable to watch.:smallbiggrin:

[Ramza00]

I might be wrong, but I think that plan flew out the window along with Penny. The maiden powers were their key to get to the levitating rod to change the settings on it, and now that they're gone none of this'll happen. Salem's arrival will do a lot of damage, but stopping him from slamming the evac button's not one of them.

Also, some people were vaguely annoyed about there being not as much buildup to it, but I am incredibly hype for Maiden!Penny. There doesn't need to be two full seasons of foreshadowing for something like this to work, given it's a Right Place, Right Time thing. It's a reason to keep her around, it lets the ruby team have access to the maiden powers without dumping it on the main protags, and the fact that we've established a hardcore difference between "fully realized maiden" and "newbie" (aka cinder getting her ass handed to her effortlessly) means that Penny won't just bulldoze any relevant obstacles in their path.

Just a reminder



aka cinder getting her ass handed to her effortlessly
This happened twice! Not once, but twice.
Furthermore Cinder has lost twice against Silver Eyes. [The second though was a quick save by Emerald.]
Both older maidens, and silver eyes are super-effective against Cinder.

Cinder also was pressured by a novice Pyrrha.

I honestly do not understand how Ozpin was outclassed by Cinder with her current showings.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Ironwood's idea is absolutely bat**** crazy, though it doesn't seem that way primarily because team RWBY needs to not challenge the practical side because then ironwood would see how absurd it is and then how would plot happen?

Let's take this out to its logical conclusion. Atlas flies up into orbit, uses space bubble magic to keep everyone safe and secure, leaving mantle to die and become Salem Town. Horray, the relic is safe, and they can wait out the crisis because their food reserves are secure.

What happens when those food reserves run out?

In this hypothetical where hiding in the atmosphere is necessary to keep out of Salem's reach, they can't just come back down to do trade for food. They're going to have a bitch of a time growing their own food up there too. It might be possible to clear out enough lands to grow some food to keep a couple people alive, but it's certainly going to be significantly less than the population is now.

And that's assuming when Salem conquers the rest of remnant and had decades to lay around with nothing but time to think she never dreams up a way to get to Atlas too. If she ever manages to get even the smallest bit of her influence up there, then with finite dust supplies and a ghost crew aboard the island, the odds don't look good.

Here's the thing though, its not crazy.

You are acting like Atlas does not have a godly relic that is literally called the 'Staff/Spear of Creation' at is disposal that can be used. And since, as of this moment, we do not know how the staff functions beyond its name there is every reason to assume it is not only capable of creating food for Atlas' inhabitants but also powering their technology as well.

The basis for this? Its kept Atlas suspended where it is for as long as it has, with absolutely no problems, for Atlas' entire existence which rolls out the possibility that it is of limited use like the Lamp of Knowledge. And Ironwood's reasoning behind Salem being unable to ever get to Atlas isn't flawless, but its a DAMN sight better than what Team RWBY is suggesting since we've seen nothing to suggest the Grim would spontaneously develop the ability to survive in space and Salem herself is remarkably technology adverse. Which, even if she wasn't, they make the case that it might not be possible for technology to reach them right now without the Staff.

Is it a delaying measure? Sure, but its still a far sight better than 'lets sit and wait for the immortal witch and her army of Grimm to show up to see if we can duke it out with her.

@Regarding Cinder: Cinder did not struggle with Pyrrha. Like at all. And with everyone else aside from more experienced Maidens or the ability to literally destroy her with a glance (aka, Divine Glowy Eyes) she's practically rofl-stomped every other opponent.

[Calemyr]

Just a reminder



This happened twice! Not once, but twice.
Furthermore Cinder has lost twice against Silver Eyes. [The second though was a quick save by Emerald.]
Both older maidens, and silver eyes are super-effective against Cinder.

Cinder also was pressured by a novice Pyrrha.

I honestly do not understand how Ozpin was outclassed by Cinder with her current showings.


I don't really see the problem, there.
Against Ruby, she's an increasingly Grimm-assisted combatant against a person with an anti-Grimm superpower and an emotional reaction to her that makes it easy for her to draw on that superpower. Seriously, the girl needs to fight to harness it against actual Grimm, but merely looking at Cinder gets her eyes glowing. That is not a fair fight.

Against Raven, she is out-matched by the bird bandit on every front. Raven has more combat experience, more experience with her Maiden powers, and even Cinder's Grimm advantage is countered by Raven's Ozpin-granted magic boost, not to mention the Grimm advantage does come with its own flaws against a ruthless opponent like Raven. It was a competitive battle, but Raven was simply superior, so her victory was not unwarranted.

Against Freia, there wasn't a contest at all. Cinder's strong, but, even with her youth on her side, Freia's matured powers are not a fair match. This isn't a question of who had the advantage, it was a level 30 vs a level 100, even if the level 100 was berserk and not really in control of her powers anymore. It would have been more balanced if it'd been Penny, but by then Ruby was also in the fray so she was outmatched without a rival Maiden being there.

Against Pyrrha, the child prodigy never really was winning that fight. She put up an impressive showing, but even a half-power Cinder didn't have to actually work at that duel. She had to be creative, because Pyrrha was a creative fighter, but, in the end, Pyrrha was to Cinder what Cardin was to Pyrrha. A speed bump.

Against Neo, it's somewhat the same thing. Neo is extremely dangerous, but Cinder was more concerned with figuring out what was going on and how to resolve this to her advantage rather than simply winning. Neo really never seemed to have a chance, but she put up an impressive show.

Against Ozpin, the fight was more balanced than you might initially expect. Cinder was newly complete as a Maiden, while Ozpin had spend a lot of his magical power empowering his followers, none of whom were there to back him up. Ozpin, like Raven, had a clear advantage in the match, but neither fight was unwinnable. Cinder just managed to beat unfavorable odds, this time. I admit, her victory feels unearned because we don't see it beyond vague flashes with no conclusion, but it was the final nail that made the collapse of Volume 3 so tragically complete.

Really, Cinder's 1 for 2 when it came to even relatively fair matches. She dominates Pyrrha and Neo but has no prayer against Ruby and Freia. It's only Raven and Ozpin that had within, say, 70/30 odds, with Cinder being the underdog both times.

[LaZodiac]

Cinder barely beat Pyrrha. Cinder's been getting clowned this entire series except for the Autumn fight and even then it was like, three vs one (and Emerald got punked immediately).

[KatsOfLoathing]

Cinder barely beat Pyrrha. Cinder's been getting clowned this entire series except for the Autumn fight and even then it was like, three vs one (and Emerald got punked immediately).

Every time I rewatch the Cinder vs. Pyrrha fight this feels less true. Sure, Pyrrha goes hard and even manages to get a fair few hits in, but the fight is blatantly stacked against her from the start. Cinder blocks or powers through everything she tries with virtually zero effort (heck, for most of the fight Cinder's basically standing in place slinging fireballs), and by the end Pyrrha is mortally injured while Cinder isn't even breathing hard. And this was after Cinder vs. Ozpin, where the former clearly had to commit much harder to winning.

The Autumn fight was against an opponent with much more experience and raw power, and all three of Cinder, Emerald, and Mercury have clearly improved a lot since then if you're watching their performance in the present.

Cinder's combat skill is kinda hard to gauge overall. There's just so few fights she gets into the series where one side doesn't have some blatant power advantage over the other.

[Ramza00]

Cinder outclassed Pyrrha in every way, yet still even though Cinder is far superior in raw stats on several metrics it was still a horrible showing for Cinder.

Why was it a horrible showing for Cinder? Well because Cinder was constantly sloppy in the fight, and due to this sloppiness Pyrrha was able to control the flow of the fight, and twice in the early stages of the fight Pyrrha allowed Cinder to overextend herself in the fight, during which Pyrrha used that momentum to pivot and reframe the fight on terrain that was advantageous to her. Cinder obviously had far superior stats but due to technique and proper timing Pyrrha survived 8x times as long as she should have.

In the end Pyrrha was put down not by the raw power of Cinder but Cinder actually fighting in a calm and collected way and using the trick arrow [to my understanding Cinder's semblance] and not via Cinder's maiden powers or any of her other raw performance besides Maiden Powers, Fighting Ability, etc. Cinder won the fight via thinking like a rogue / assassin and not like a Fighter or Elemental Mage.

------

Pyrrha vs Cinder was a horrible showing for Cinder, this novice should have not been pressuring Cinder for that long, there should not have been a several minute fight but in the end there was. I say this fight made Cinder look bad, but hey this is my subjective opinion. :smalltongue:

[Fyraltari]

That fight is clearly meant to be Pyrrha's swan song, her moment of glory just before her death, so they scaled Cinder down a notch to accomodate that.

[Ramza00]

That fight is clearly meant to be Pyrrha's swan song, her moment of glory just before her death, so they scaled Cinder down a notch to accomodate that.

True, but in hindsight it looks different when Cinder keeps on losing to those other opponents. :smallwink:

The joke that started this thing is, Other Maidens and Silver Eyes are super-effective against the Cinder Pokemon. :smalltongue:

[LaZodiac]

Cinder outclassed Pyrrha in every way, yet still even though Cinder is far superior in raw stats on several metrics it was still a horrible showing for Cinder.

Why was it a horrible showing for Cinder? Well because Cinder was constantly sloppy in the fight, and due to this sloppiness Pyrrha was able to control the flow of the fight, and twice in the early stages of the fight Pyrrha allowed Cinder to overextend herself in the fight, during which Pyrrha used that momentum to pivot and reframe the fight on terrain that was advantageous to her. Cinder obviously had far superior stats but due to technique and proper timing Pyrrha survived 8x times as long as she should have.

In the end Pyrrha was put down not by the raw power of Cinder but Cinder actually fighting in a calm and collected way and using the trick arrow [to my understanding Cinder's semblance] and not via Cinder's maiden powers or any of her other raw performance besides Maiden Powers, Fighting Ability, etc. Cinder won the fight via thinking like a rogue / assassin and not like a Fighter or Elemental Mage.

------

Pyrrha vs Cinder was a horrible showing for Cinder, this novice should have not been pressuring Cinder for that long, there should not have been a several minute fight but in the end there was. I say this fight made Cinder look bad, but hey this is my subjective opinion. :smalltongue:

I still contest Pyrrha would have lived if she didn't throw her shield like a dumbass. That's the only mistake she made in this fight.

Also the idea that Cinder was made to look less impressive to make Pyrrha look cooler in her swan song is... really stupid and not how fights should be written or presented, especially if the person getting worfed is a main antagonist who we're supposed to take seriously. Adding this to all the other times she gets utterly trounced by basically everyone makes her being Salem's special little daughter/apprentice... a bit silly.

[Fyraltari]

I still contest Pyrrha would have lived if she didn't throw her shield like a dumbass. That's the only mistake she made in this fight.

Also the idea that Cinder was made to look less impressive to make Pyrrha look cooler in her swan song is... really stupid and not how fights should be written or presented, especially if the person getting worfed is a main antagonist who we're supposed to take seriously. Adding this to all the other times she gets utterly trounced by basically everyone makes her being Salem's special little daughter/apprentice... a bit silly.

Fighting isn't an exact science. Someone being a better fighter than somebody else doesn't mean that they will beat them in exactly X time every time they fight. It means that they will beat them most of the time they fight with how often and how quickly (on average) being function of the gap in skills.

On a good day a novice (especially a prodigy like Pyrrha is supposed to be) can make a master struggle.

Having your heroic character give a decent fight to your villain on their last appearance isn't bad writing. A character should die as the better version of themselves, that's good writing.

I mean these fights aren't supposed to be realistic in the slightest (they're fighting in high heels for crying out loud) they're there to look good and dramatic. analyzing the tactics is beside the point entirely.

[LaZodiac]

Fighting isn't an exact science. Someone being a better fighter than somebody else doesn't mean that they will beat them in exactly X time every time they fight. It means that they will beat them most of the time they fight with how often and how quickly (on average) being function of the gap in skills.

On a good day a novice (especially a prodigy like Pyrrha is supposed to be) can make a master struggle.

Having your heroic character give a decent fight to your villain on their last appearance isn't bad writing. A character should die as the better version of themselves, that's good writing.

I mean these fights aren't supposed to be realistic in the slightest (they're fighting in high heels for crying out loud) they're there to look good and dramatic. analyzing the tactics is beside the point entirely.

You can have that happen without defanging the villain.

You're right that these fights are more for the spectacle. It's not very spectacular to see the forward face of the antagonist get her **** kicked in at every opportunity.

[Ramza00]

You can have that happen without defanging the villain.

You're right that these fights are more for the spectacle. It's not very spectacular to see the forward face of the antagonist get her **** kicked in at every opportunity.

Honestly one tactic they could have done with the Pyrrha vs Cinder fight is that the fight itself is all a ruse. Pyrrha using her magnetic powers to distribute dust grenades while Cinder is unaware for she thought she was fighting a legitimate fight.

Cinder would of course dominate the fight, but we the audience realize there are parallel goals aka a race. Pyrrha does not need to vanquish Cinder in a fair fight, she just needs to complete her plan.


In an episode prior to this there was a training duel with Jaunne and Pyrrha about going up against a superior opponent. Sometimes you defeat a Goliath not with strength but via a Cunning Pyrrha advises her partner. Aka set up for this conflict.


Of course Pyrrha completes her plan but it fails due to Maiden power allowing you to use magical force to cheat and do absurd things. Pyrrha did everything right the gap was just too much between them.

Cinder then shoots Pyrrha in the heel and slowly kills her, sadistically using her crystal manipulation powers to destroy the body like poison. Cinder does this for she is a coward, a show off, and she takes delight in control and manipulation.

Pyrrha asks her destiny question which causes Cinder to say yes and she stops playing the death scene like a game, killing Pyrrha. Ruby sees this last moment and does the silver eyes.

—————

There are dozens of ways you could have done a better storytelling, let alone craft a different scene that was superior. Some of these can be done cheaply in Posner on a budget and some you can not. RWBY what a mess. (I can like messes though, they are still mess despite me liking them.)

[KatsOfLoathing]

You can have that happen without defanging the villain.

You're right that these fights are more for the spectacle. It's not very spectacular to see the forward face of the antagonist get her **** kicked in at every opportunity.

Cinder is obviously not giving her all for the majority of that battle. She's smiling, she throws obviously telegraphed easy-to-dodge attacks that aren't on the level of those we saw against Ozpin just a few minutes prior, she makes a ton of easy mistakes overall while relying on her sheer power to make up for the deficits. She only really starts fighting with any level of creativity once Pyrrha pulls out her hail-Mary Semblance attack, at which point the advantage rapidly tilts in her favor.

And with all honesty, Cinder's usefulness to the narrative ended after she lost to Raven at the end of season 5 (same deal with Adam, and I was immensely grateful when the show killed him off at the end of S6). Neo alone could've done all the skulking and relic-stealing and the narrative wouldn't have lost much (except an easy way to get the Winter Maiden powers to Penny, maybe). Both the story and Ruby herself have outgrown Cinder as an antagonist, and their confrontation at the end of S7 takes all of ten seconds to demonstrate why. Maybe the writers still have a plan for her. Maybe. Hopefully they start showing the fruits of it soon.

Re: Pyrrha throwing the shield - what other options did she have at that moment? Cinder destroyed her sword and blasted away all of the gears she'd been using as projectiles. The only other options AFAICT was to stand there and get blown off the tower or go at Cinder with her bare hands.

[LaZodiac]

Cinder is obviously not giving her all for the majority of that battle. She's smiling, she throws obviously telegraphed easy-to-dodge attacks that aren't on the level of those we saw against Ozpin just a few minutes prior, she makes a ton of easy mistakes overall while relying on her sheer power to make up for the deficits. She only really starts fighting with any level of creativity once Pyrrha pulls out her hail-Mary Semblance attack, at which point the advantage rapidly tilts in her favor.

And with all honesty, Cinder's usefulness to the narrative ended after she lost to Raven at the end of season 5 (same deal with Adam, and I was immensely grateful when the show killed him off at the end of S6). Neo alone could've done all the skulking and relic-stealing and the narrative wouldn't have lost much (except an easy way to get the Winter Maiden powers to Penny, maybe). Both the story and Ruby herself have outgrown Cinder as an antagonist, and their confrontation at the end of S7 takes all of ten seconds to demonstrate why. Maybe the writers still have a plan for her. Maybe. Hopefully they start showing the fruits of it soon.

Re: Pyrrha throwing the shield - what other options did she have at that moment? Cinder destroyed her sword and blasted away all of the gears she'd been using as projectiles. The only other options AFAICT was to stand there and get blown off the tower or go at Cinder with her bare hands.

I wouldn't say it's obvious given when the episode first came out, I had people telling me the exact opposite, that Cinder was dominating the fight. The secret here is that the animation really doesn't tell us anything, the fight barely has any actual meaning to it beyond "cool fight" and the read that Pyrrha is pushing Cinder to the limit can be read in numerous other ways, and all of them are pretty much valid because the show gives us nothing concrete to actually latch onto.

I agree that Cinder should have died, but she didn't so now we're stuck with the worst villain in RWBY, forever.

It's a shield. Use it to do a shield thing. You know... block, the arrow, coming towards her? Fight defensively and keep her only defense (because her armour is made of paper and garbage) on her so she doesn't get stabbed in the very open chest she has? If she had kept the shield on her and blocked the arrow it wouldn't have been able to reform directly into the path of her meat and then Ruby would have shown up at about that time and then it's 2v1 and Cinder loses because she's incompetent.

And given she sent Jaune away to get safe and ask for help to assist her, if I recall, she SHOULD BE EXPECTING, POSSIBLY, SOME HELP. So switching to "try not to die mode" would be a good idea. Instead she throws her ONLY means of defense away to try and... what, bonk Cinder in her face with a blunt metal object? That's not Pyrrha at all.

[Ramza00]

Re: Pyrrha throwing the shield - what other options did she have at that moment? Cinder destroyed her sword and blasted away all of the gears she'd been using as projectiles. The only other options AFAICT was to stand there and get blown off the tower or go at Cinder with her bare hands.

Remembers...


Ruby: (giggles before a short, awkward silence falls) "So... I got this thing!" (she pulls out Crescent Rose and stabs it into the ground)
Jaune: "Whoa! Is that a scythe?"
Ruby: "It's also a customizable high-impact sniper rifle!"
Jaune: "A-wha...?"
Ruby: (***** it, smiling) "It's also a gun."
Jaune: "Oh. That's cool!"
Ruby: "So what've you got?"
Jaune: "Oh! I, uh..." (unsheathes a blade) "I got this sword!"
Ruby: "Ooooohh!"
Jaune: "Yeah, and I've got a shield, too!" (he gets his scabbard, raises his arm and expands the metal into his defense)
Ruby: (touching the shield) "So, what do they do?"
Jaune: (fumbling with the shield as it retracts off his arm, expands, and retracts again before putting it back in place and finally shrinking it down for good, placing it on his belt) "The shield gets smaller, so when I get tired of carrying it, I can just... put it away..."
Ruby: "But... wouldn't it weigh the same?"
Jaune: (dejectedly) "Yeah, it does..."
Ruby: (giggling) "Well, I'm kind of a dork when it comes to weapons, sooo... I guess I did go a little overboard when designing it."

Only a shield? Only a shield!!!


Re: Pyrrha throwing the shield - what other options did she have at that moment? Cinder destroyed her sword and blasted away all of the gears she'd been using as projectiles. The only other options AFAICT was to stand there and get blown off the tower or go at Cinder with her bare hands.

Remembers...


Jaune: Uh, sir? I've got, um... a question. (he misses the tile under Weiss rising up into a springboard, rocketing into the air and over the forest, as the platforms activate down the line) So, this landing... strategy thing... Uh, wha-what is it? You're, like, dropping us off or something?
Ozpin: No. You will be falling.
Jaune: (missing more students being thrown) Oh, uh, I see... So, like, did you hand out parachutes for us?
Ozpin: No. You will be using your own "landing strategy."
Jaune: (still not seeing an excited Nora and Ren getting launched) Uh-huh... Yeah.
At her turn, Yang winks at her younger sister, puts on a pair of aviators, and flies off with a "Woo-hoooooooo!" a second before Ruby joins her.
Jaune: So, what exactly is a landing strategYYY!...
He asks this part just when he finally has to get hurled with the cloud of students now making their way down into the forest below under the eyes of the teachers. Ozpin, for his part, simply takes a sip of his drink before the scene goes black and the credits roll.

Discretion is the better part of valor.
Caution is preferable to rash bravery.

Put another way if you can't win and you are out of tricks, run away. Yes you are at the top of a tall tower but we already know that these characters can survive that. So Pyrrha use your shield and pull a Captain America doing a call back to Episode 4 / 5.

And if Pyrrha can only do a landing strategy with her spear / gun than that is a failure of Ozpin's school to properly equip his students. Why aren't Mercury's Gun boots standard? They would be useful things for any Huntress or Hunter to utilize to increase their mobility and speed if they do not have a semblance that already provides them super speed like Ruby.



It's a shield. Use it to do a shield thing. You know... block, the arrow, coming towards her? Fight defensively and keep her only defense (because her armour is made of paper and garbage) on her so she doesn't get stabbed in the very open chest she has? If she had kept the shield on her and blocked the arrow it wouldn't have been able to reform directly into the path of her meat and then Ruby would have shown up at about that time and then it's 2v1 and Cinder loses because she's incompetent.

Literally there was no reason what so ever to keep the fight going between Pyrrha and Cinder after Pyrrha's hail mary metal gears attack did not work. Pyrrha started the fight not to stop Cinder but instead to defend the tower for Ozpin said the tower can not fall. Well the dragon destroyed the tower in the attack and thus the only reason to keep on fighting Cinder is revenge / stop Cinder.

But Cinder was not in dangers of disappearing then and there, so why don't you regroup with your allies instead of fighting a 1 v 1 fight after you lose your weapon and you only have a defensive shield?

-----

Cinder was sloppy during that fight, but Pyrrha was stupid at the last bit. Yet we "forget" the stupidity due to how the fight is edited. Pyrrha was knocked on the ground and we cut away to Weiss and Ruby and Weiss does the glyphs and tell Ruby she can do it. Then at 9:00 Pyrrha gets up from her hail mary and runs straight at Cinder, Cinder readies an arrow, before the arrow is released Pyrrha throws her shield (which is a stupid move to do if you are not confident you can prevent the arrow from being shot), Cinder unleashes the arrow after the shield is in the arrow, they meet in the middle, and the arrow reforms around the shield.

Pyrrha position after the cut back to her (from the previous arrow / shield) makes no sense for she stops her momentum facing the wrong direction after doing the spin, you would not literally stop the momentum like that, and the arrow hits Pyrrha's heal. Then lots of talking before Pyrrha's death.

The specific bits of the fight do not make sense, it relies on the viewer to pretend they do make sense like much of media does. But here is the thing when people feel a scene is off or they have complaints about the scene these complaints are valid for them they feel the uncanny valley effect where they notice something is off and they lose immersion when that occurs. (The more technical term is absence / presence, we know this is a fiction, but we suspend part of our brain in order to enjoy the scene but when we notice something that is blaring off we remember this is a fiction and it does not "make sense.")

[Callos_DeTerran]

I'll be honest, I don't really enjoy this thread anymore and I think its making me dislike RWBY as well just because I know I'm going to come here and defend a good (but not perfect) show against boundless hyperbole and negativity just in search of an actually thoughtful discussion.

So..thanks for what good times there were, a few laughs, but I'm out. Enjoy tearing the show apart in my absence.

[Kantaki]

Finally caught up.
:smallsigh:So. Much. Studid.:smallsigh:
The fight between Tyrian, Qrow and lucky guy probably takes the cake.
Okay, you to have something you got to slug out, but maybe wait until the deranged cultist is dealt with.
Seriously, there are several moments where either Clover or Qrow could land a blow and the other stops him.

Jaques... ignoring that his deal with the devil was incredibly ill-concieved, how did the guy ever run his company if he snaps so easily?

Still, the Season was great, even if it's a near complete victory for Team Salem again,

[Rawhide]

I hereby authorise that this thread get resurrected. I'll update the first post soon.

[Ramza00]

Here is the teaser trailer for Vol 8.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTpynn8xdA8

And here is the official vol 8 trailer (can't embed two videos per post.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul703kdcUUE

[Kantaki]

Well, Ironwood just went full villain.:smallsigh:
And not in a good way. If he keeps this up I don't think many people will stay loyal.
I mean at least pretend the other guy gave you a reason.

Meanwhile our heroes... Please don't make this another divide about how to safe people.
Ironwood's "I'm doing this my way and stop anyone who even thinks about alternatives" is already bad enough. Even before he jumped straight to murdering folks for questioning him.
I wonder what kinda toys Penny's dad has for them though. Didn't they just receive upgrades last chapter?

Salem's crew is a friendly a healthy workplave as ever. Why did Cinder return to them again?

[DeadMech]

Salem's crew is a friendly a healthy workplave as ever. Why did Cinder return to them again?

What even are her other options? It's not as though Cinder should expect to be able to not return when she has what Salem wants. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Salem was able to remotely exert control over Cinder's arm or at the very least track it. And even if not she has an army and Cinder has no reason to assume that Salem isn't going to continue winning. At least not that we've seen.

She can either try get back in good graces so that her sudden but inevitable betrayal at least has the possibility of working. Or she can go into hiding and just hope to die of natural causes before Salem finishes with her other loose ends.

Well I suppose she could try see how merciful Ruby is and join team good guys but that doesn't seem particularly likely.

[Kantaki]

What even are her other options? It's not as though Cinder should expect to be able to not return when she has what Salem wants. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Salem was able to remotely exert control over Cinder's arm or at the very least track it. And even if not she has an army and Cinder has no reason to assume that Salem isn't going to continue winning. At least not that we've seen.

She can either try get back in good graces so that her sudden but inevitable betrayal at least has the possibility of working. Or she can go into hiding and just hope to die of natural causes before Salem finishes with her other loose ends.

Well I suppose she could try see how merciful Ruby is and join team good guys but that doesn't seem particularly likely.

I strongly doubt changing sides is in the books for Cinder. Or redemption, really. At best she's gonna turn on Salem for being... well, Salem and triggering whatever failsafe Salem prepared.

And yeah, she doesn't have many options here, beyond maybe going after the heroes on her own, which wouldn't end well.
It's just that the reactions to her return were bad enough I asked anyway.

I mean Salem reacts like a pet dragged in something nasty and basically asks „What do you want here?“, Tyrion mocks her and Emerald- the only one actually happy to see her -is shut up immediately.
So, yeah... Why did she return again?:smallamused:

Still, Team Evil looks better than dear James in this one. Even if the next episode reveals that the other guy was working for... What's her name? The lady who opposed Ironwood?
Robyn.:smalltongue:
So even if it's revealed he worked for the enemy that was a extreme turn of events.

[Ramza00]

Hear me out. (Will write more on episode 1 and 2 later, 2 only available for paying people for another 6 days.)


Somehow it is going to be Cinder who is going to appear before the two gods. And she is not going to redeem herself, but somehow she is going to say something very "human" even though Cinder will remain power hungry*.

And the end result is Salem is taken away, Ozpin will merge with Oscar (but also be half forgotten), Ruby is there to bear witness to all this, the maiden powers will be dispersed but there will still be grimm, semblances, etc.

* The likely candidate is she is going to be angry (her way to deal with fear, counter-phobia using aggressiveness to deal with fear) and say I had nothing and no one. I 🔥 was born into this broken world and I made my way through it without anyone. And through this this making my way through the world I found people to help me and I used them to get where I am now. I had no power and now I have power and thus I am not a constant.
* And the amoral gods will see this as humans working together even though they see that humans are divided on goals, values, and even concepts like kindness. Even a broken person who wants only power can find community (with her collected assets.) This will turn out to be enough for the amoral gods.
* Cinder has remade herself numerous times in order to survive. Since she is willing to remake herself and not hold onto an ideal like a specific person she is considered acceptable in the eyes of the amoral gods. The amoral gods who only care about "control" and will both accept distance but also cooperation along as they feel like they are not being controlled.

The gods then decide to depart this world (instead of living among the humans) and we are left only with our comrades and enemies. (And a whole lot less magic but still some magic.)

[DeadMech]

I strongly doubt changing sides is in the books for Cinder. Or redemption, really. At best she's gonna turn on Salem for being... well, Salem and triggering whatever failsafe Salem prepared.

And yeah, she doesn't have many options here, beyond maybe going after the heroes on her own, which wouldn't end well.
It's just that the reactions to her return were bad enough I asked anyway.

I mean Salem reacts like a pet dragged in something nasty and basically asks „What do you want here?“, Tyrion mocks her and Emerald- the only one actually happy to see her -is shut up immediately.
So, yeah... Why did she return again?:smallamused:

Still, Team Evil looks better than dear James in this one. Even if the next episode reveals that the other guy was working for... What's her name? The lady who opposed Ironwood?
Robyn.:smalltongue:
So even if it's revealed he worked for the enemy that was a extreme turn of events.

Definately. I mostly mention Cinder trying to join Team RWBY because I like the mental image of a desperate Cinder on her knees in front of the show's woobie and getting executed on the spot by Ruby after remembering what Cinder did to Pyrrha.

Tyrion mocks everyone... except for his goddess Salem. And I'm not 100% convinced that isn't subterfuge. Emerald is shut up because Cinder's situation is walking on the thinnest ice possible and that situation needs to be rectified immediately. Salem treats her like a misbehaving pet because... she is. Salem gave Cinder explicit orders and Cinder ignored them. Salem doesn't strike me as a person who tolerates insubordination. Especially not from an underling who's showing signs of StarScream syndrome. Cinder's power hungry and has slipped at least once in front of Salem about the issue of just who the maiden power belongs to. If she had come back empty handed she's already be dragged off to some torture chamber to have the maiden power taken out of her and put in someone else.

As for James, he's basically gone over the deep end. some people think this is bad writing but I disagree. It just continues the pattern of Oz and his underlings being wrong about their approach. James shot that guy because he's at the point where he doesn't believe he can afford to be delayed or stopped from accomplishing his goal. He think's launching a small percentage of the world's population into low orbit with questionable ability to supply and feed itself is the only solution to the coming apocalypse that is Salem. He thinks if he fails to do this or he lets anything stand in his way humanity goes extinct. He's already given up. Is shooting that dude going to prove wrong by distancing key allies from him. It sure is. But if we can't even have people in real life act rationally why should we expect people in fiction where the goal is drama and conflict to do so.


Hear me out. (Will write more on episode 1 and 2 later, 2 only available for paying people for another 6 days.)


Somehow it is going to be Cinder who is going to appear before the two gods. And she is not going to redeem herself, but somehow she is going to say something very "human" even though Cinder will remain power hungry*.

And the end result is Salem is taken away, Ozpin will merge with Oscar (but also be half forgotten), Ruby is there to bear witness to all this, the maiden powers will be dispersed but there will still be grimm, semblances, etc.

* The likely candidate is she is going to be angry (her way to deal with fear, counter-phobia using aggressiveness to deal with fear) and say I had nothing and no one. I 🔥 was born into this broken world and I made my way through it without anyone. And through this this making my way through the world I found people to help me and I used them to get where I am now. I had no power and now I have power and thus I am not a constant.
* And the amoral gods will see this as humans working together even though they see that humans are divided on goals, values, and even concepts like kindness. Even a broken person who wants only power can find community (with her collected assets.) This will turn out to be enough for the amoral gods.
* Cinder has remade herself numerous times in order to survive. Since she is willing to remake herself and not hold onto an ideal like a specific person she is considered acceptable in the eyes of the amoral gods. The amoral gods who only care about "control" and will both accept distance but also cooperation along as they feel like they are not being controlled.

The gods then decide to depart this world (instead of living among the humans) and we are left only with our comrades and enemies. (And a whole lot less magic but still some magic.)


Nah. Clearly the ending to RWBY is the one thing that could have stopped the world from spinning into turmoil in the first place. Oz and Salem getting marriage counselling. Everything structurally wrong with the world is the result of their failed marriage after all. Well everything except perhaps the Faunus mistreatment. That's just people being disappointing.

[Silverraptor]

This is all subscription people first view discussions, right?

[Kantaki]

This is all subscription people first view discussions, right?

Nah, first episode is out for free viewers.
I'm a free viewer for one.
Good thing too considering their page is disagreeing with my computer again.:smallsigh:
And watching on my phone is not the most comfortable experience.

[Ramza00]

This is all subscription people first view discussions, right?

If you click "play latest episode" you will be redirected to sign up for Rooster Teeth First which costs $6 at the cheapest option. This is because Vol 8 Episode 2 is already out. (PS it is better than episode 01)

Instead go to this page (season 8) https://roosterteeth.com/series/rwby?season=8 and then click on the individual episode V8:E1 - Divide.

Notice on that same page it lists V8:E2 - Refuge RWBY | FREE 11/21/2020, well without having a subscription you have to wait to 11/21. Also notice above the words the icon for V8:E2 is darker almost black and it says FIRST in grey in the middle with Watch First in the upper left with red.

----

Yeah the website design could be better.

[Fyraltari]

As for James, he's basically gone over the deep end. some people think this is bad writing but I disagree. It just continues the pattern of Oz and his underlings being wrong about their approach. James shot that guy because he's at the point where he doesn't believe he can afford to be delayed or stopped from accomplishing his goal. He think's launching a small percentage of the world's population into low orbit with questionable ability to supply and feed itself is the only solution to the coming apocalypse that is Salem. He thinks if he fails to do this or he lets anything stand in his way humanity goes extinct. He's already given up. Is shooting that dude going to prove wrong by distancing key allies from him. It sure is. But if we can't even have people in real life act rationally why should we expect people in fiction where the goal is drama and conflict to do so.

The exact same could have been accomplished by having him arrest the man and it would be more in character for him too. Ironwood shooting a dude for practically no reason seems design to make it easy to root against the general.

[Ramza00]

The exact same could have been accomplished by having him arrest the man and it would be more in character for him too. Ironwood shooting a dude for practically no reason seems design to make it easy to root against the general.


Ironwood is having a bad day, his world is crumbling down around him and he is taking action in order to save what he can. He can't tolerate loss, and since in a game playing with an immortal any loss is finale, he has been freaking out for years, self-soothing with building up his armies for the larger the armies are the more he sees progress and has faith. The second way he self soothes is having friends and Ozpin.

He doesn't have that anymore, he is having a bad day and he is pissed. Shooting people produces delight for they were "always taxes" on how he felt emotionally and he just wants to cut his losses since he is doing so much more killing anyway during that day might as well do another one.



Sidenote in James's mind keeping prisoners with Qrow and Robin is what got Clover (one of his best lieutenants) killed. I am willing to bet money that James would have shot those people anyway for he is sacrificing thousands / millions with his flying city to the grimm. In his mind what is 2 or 3 more people on the council who deserve to die. After all that other council member, Weiss dad is how everyone got betrayed by Watts.

James is very pissed at Qrow right now (this is unsaid but we can infer it very easily with subtext.) Ozpin / Oscar betrayed him, Watts betrayed him, Jacques Schnee betrayed him. Everyone betrayed him. And his best friend / rival Qrow got his lieutenant killed. These two I bet are going to yell at each other when they fight sometime later.

https://roosterteeth.com/watch/rwby-volume-7-12

I did not mention this earlier with Vol 7 Episode 12 but Rooster Teeth was purposefully making choices with how they colored things with Clover's death by Tyrian. (For example it goes black and white when the sneak attack happened.) Well 16:55 to 17:00 there is a scene with Qrow with 3 main color scheme, mountains at top, far horizon, and then closer background. Isn't those the colors for the bisexual flag? The colors happening like that due to the weird sunrise over Atlas. But yeah this is "subtext" with themes and we did not get any precise "text" confirmation.

colored the sky with 3 colors at Clover's death when that happened. The 3 colors are the same ones as the bisexual flag.

[DeadMech]

The exact same could have been accomplished by having him arrest the man and it would be more in character for him too. Ironwood shooting a dude for practically no reason seems design to make it easy to root against the general.

Could it? All the people Ironwood has arrested so far he has a valid reason for doing so. Reasons that will convince the people required to keep them imprisoned to continue doing so. Reasons that the many many people he needs to continue operating Atlas and moving towards his goals will listen to and continue doing the work he needs them to continue doing. Does he have a valid reason to arrest the rest of the council? No. The moment he does so and word gets out he's probably looking at widespread civil unrest. Much easier to cover up the death of one or two people.

He is acting like a bad guy because he is a bad guy. He's decided to abandon 99% of the world's population to death. Even a large majority of his own citizens. And he won't even tell them he's doing it or why it's even necessary in his mind.

[Rawhide]

{snip}

Please remember to always title your spoilers with the episode number in this thread.

---

Places to watch the current season of RWBY, Volume 8.

The most up to date episode (paid):
Rooster Teeth - https://roosterteeth.com/series/rwby?season=8 - Paid Rooster Teeth First subscription required
Cost: $5.99 USD/month, $32.99 USD/6 months ($5.50 USD/month), or $59.99 USD/year ($5.00 USD/month). 7-day free trial.
VRV - https://vrv.co/series/G609MWD26/RWBY - Paid Premium membership required
Cost: $9.99 USD/month for all VRV channels (Boomerang, Cartoon Hangover, Crunchyroll, HIDIVE, Mondo, Rooster Teeth, VRV Select). 30 day free trial. Or Rooster Teeth only, $5.99 USD/month.

[U]One week delay (free):
Rooster Teeth - https://roosterteeth.com/series/rwby?season=8 - No registration required
Crunchyroll - https://www.crunchyroll.com/rwby - No registration required
VRV - https://vrv.co/series/G609MWD26/RWBY - [US ONLY] No registration required

Anyone know of any other places? Legal only, obviously.

[Ramza00]

New episodes!

[Kantaki]

Yay! Hoverbikes!:smallcool:
Yang is right. Ruby's team is definitely missing out.

Though maybe not on the crushing defeat front.:smalleek:
So much for getting some sleep tonight...

Also, they get to ride those tubes. Those look fun too. As long as they happen to other people...:smallbiggrin: Blake raises a good question- is there anything in Atlas the Schnees don't own?
Aside from the military, the goverment, the Academy...
Nora shows why you should stay well away from questionably safe transportation methods while explaining them.
I hope Weiss getting fired doesn't mean someone has to stay behind. The controls are a bit away from the tube and I don't think the bots will listen to the rest of the party.

Also, I'm worried about Penny. Hopefully she doesn't do anything stupid, like returning to James.
I'm not convinced dear Jimmy will just let her be. He might try to put the Wintermaiden into someone more... loyal? trustworthy? leashed. He might want that power into somone more leashed.
And get some information on where those traitors with their own plans for saving people are.
Probably wouldn't end well for... anyone, really.

Edit
Watts definitely got the best line.
"The trust is really palpable.":smallbiggrin:

Other than that... definitely another win for Team Salem.
Huh? Ironwood? Yeah, he's making a great pawn.
Seriously, there's no way this stunt doesn't backfire.

Also, poor Nora. Guess Semblances can backfire. Ouch.

[Fyraltari]

Hey you know what absolutely can't backfire? Asking the guy who joined an apocalypse cult because he was angry at one guy to hack your supersoldier robot with magic powers. Completely foolproof plan.

[Ramza00]

Episode 4 of Vol 8 is good. I had to pause it and take a break for it is good and I need to pinch myself.

I will write something in spoiler blocks about episode 2 and 3 later, creating real conversation instead of just teasing / expressing shock that RWBY is fun again.

I think I am going to skip sharing stuff about episode 1 (I think) for it would just feel mean and there were several lost moments where they could have done the same scene but do it better.

[DeadMech]

Hey you know what absolutely can't backfire? Asking the guy who joined an apocalypse cult because he was angry at one guy to hack your supersoldier robot with magic powers. Completely foolproof plan.

Yeah... Penny's dad is going to find out why remote access was perhaps not the wisest feature.

[Rawhide]

{snip}

Please remember to always title your spoilers with the episode number in this thread.

This is the second time in as many weeks I have asked you.

[Kantaki]

:smalleek:Things aren't looking too rosy for our heroes.

Especially Team "Oops. We lost Oscar."
But I guess Ren's rant was a long time coming.
Don't think he was too happy about the crews decisions over the last few events.
I just hope this doesn't get worse.
But if Nora doesn't get better that might be another wedge.

Jaune and Yang were pretty amusing though.
Way to be unhelpful.:smallamused:


Also, shame about those bikes.
Actually thought they would survive to the Chapter's end.

Poor Whitley though. Having to deal with the wreckage of that little family feud can't be easy, even without blades in your face.

And Qrow... Ouch.:smallfrown:
That is depressing. He finally finds someone his Semblance won't hurt and... Ouch.:smallfrown:

Finally, Team Salem.
Salem likes to play Palpatine it looks like.
The Hound acts like a good little puppy around her with is hilarious.
And Cinder and Ems are about to do a stupid while Neo does her Mary Poppins thing.
Still not convinced she's here to help Cinder.

Really like the double meaning in the title.

[Ramza00]

V8E5 is also good :smallsmile:

[Rawhide]

Get away from her

[DeadMech]

Get away from her


I got a chuckle out of that. Mostly because I'd already said it to myself in my head before it happened on screen. Too bad she was stopped before she could finish the last word.

Neo really wasn't up to her usual standard in that fight and using the hovercar against the exosuit powerloader looked pretty goofy.

Actually I was wondering why the power loader was left onboard Amity. Probably get it into the upper atmosphere easier if you tossed it overboard but maybe it was still useful for moving fuel around or something.

[Ramza00]

New episode

Note the words below are about the paywalled episode 6. Yet also the free episode 5 dropped today.


Only 7 mins in so far, but I had to stop 🛑 for I was feeling sympathy for Cinder :smalltongue: and that was a big OH NO :smallsigh:

[Celestia]

I got a chuckle out of that. Mostly because I'd already said it to myself in my head before it happened on screen. Too bad she was stopped before she could finish the last word.

Neo really wasn't up to her usual standard in that fight and using the hovercar against the exosuit powerloader looked pretty goofy.

Actually I was wondering why the power loader was left onboard Amity. Probably get it into the upper atmosphere easier if you tossed it overboard but maybe it was still useful for moving fuel around or something.
Yes, the power loader probably weighs a couple thousand pounds, but when you're discussing a building that probably weighs a couple million pounds, it just doesn't make enough of an impact. It's like how technically your car has worse fuel efficiency when you're driving home from the grocery store.

[Rawhide]

I've been thinking for a while now that Volume 1 really had the best songs of the series, and nothing has come close.

Well, until now. Volume 8, Chapter 6 has a song that vocally reminds me so much of the original Red Like Roses.

Clean the linens, sweep the floors
Shut your mouth and do your chores
Scrub the dishes in the sink
No one said that you should think
Shine the silver, wash the clothes
And when you're finished, darn the socks, draw my bath
Fetch my slippers, fill my glass
And rub my feet; Hurry up, you're so slow
You're no good I hope you know
That your life is of no use
And the truth is that
No one's ever loved you

[Delicious Taffy]

After a couple of lackluster seasons, I'm really enjoying this one. Everything seems a little more polished than usual, from the animation to the voice acting (Ruby's especially). I enjoy how they're usually remembering to let the characters use their powers and gadgets, now.

[LaZodiac]

Congratulations RWBY, you did your best and that's what counts. You get exactly one(1) credit.

*blows a tiny horn in mild celebration*

[Kantaki]

Well, sad backstory is sad I guess.
I'd feel worse if Cinder wasn't, well, Cinder.

Also, so many people who are too dumb to live.
I mean there are good ways to treat your... employees, there are bad ways to treat them and there is the get murdered in your frigging sleep way.
Even Salem is better at this than that woman.

Seriously, if Huntsman dude hadn't intervened those three would've died much earlier.
Not that he doesn't fall in that category either. I mean the girl just killed a bunch of people* and you knocked her down for it. Don't get closer when she's still has her weapons in reach.

*Even if they might've had it coming.

[Ramza00]

Things I noticed in S8E6 (there are probably things I did not notice)


There is a No Faunus sign in the Glass Unicorn Lobby much like a No Smoking sign.


Well, sad backstory is sad I guess.
I'd feel worse if Cinder wasn't, well, Cinder.

Also, so many people who are too dumb to live.
I mean there are good ways to treat your... employees, there are bad ways to treat them and there is the get murdered in your frigging sleep way.
Even Salem is better at this than that woman.

*Even if they might've had it coming.

As @Kantaki pointed out they are too dumb to live, but it is also part of the culture and how segregated and hierarchical it is.

The No Faunus sign indicates Racial Hierarchy much like BS that has happened in several cultures of our real world. This also tracks with other things we have seen about the Faunus in other conversation about different people. It is toxic, injust, hierarchy in several places but especially Atlas where the Glass Unicorn is located in.

Thus we have an Orphan Girl who is adopted and made into a foster child / indentured servant / slave, where you have the ability to use physical force at the push of the button to force compliance but also to provide Pavolian negative feedback whenever you want. Pavlovian as in Ivan Pavlov the Russian Psychologist who wanted to understand positive and negative reinforcement and is thus credited with the founder of Modern Behavioral Psychology. He noticed that merely ringing a bell that you train a dog that I ring bell food occurs soon, well the dog will start salivating with the bell sound even if there is no food nearby and this is in a different environment. The Madame is too stupid to live, but based off what we are shown with Cinder and the No Faunus sign it is likely she saw Cinder as "beneath her" as in some inferior form of Human or an animal much like some Humans see dogs.

-----

So references to Cinder's backstory besides Cinderella

Glass Unicorn is a reference to the Glass Menagerie which is a Tennessee Williams play. I have not read this play but know some of it through cultural osmosis and having a younger sister whose name was Laura when she was still alive.

In it Laura is a shy girl who is all alone in this world. Her mother Amanda is "something" (something I can not capture for I have not read the play) but my sense is the mom was intense and mom wants Laura to be married off, so she gets her son to set Laura up with a friend of the son. Something something happens and Laura learns it is not to be and the friend breaks the glass unicorn that was precious to Laura making the Unicorn a normal horse. Laura gives the broken glass unicorn now a horse to the friend and I know nothing more of the play. The title Glass Menagerie is a reference to this Glass Zoo / Animals of Glass, and thus via naming the hotel Glass Unicorn it is referencing Tennessee Williams play.

Rhodes (the male huntsman) is a reference to Rhodopis which is a Cinderella Myth of Egypt that is at least 2100 years old recorded by a Greek Historian Strabo.

It could also be a reference to the earlier myth Rhodopis which is about a Greek hetaerae which we would use other language now a days to describe hetaerae such as courtesan / mistress / geisha. These two myths may be linked, but yeah sexual slavery stuff, where the women gets to escape slavery in a fashion.

Any additional references did people see in this key episode besides liking the music?

[Fyraltari]

Congratulations RWBY, you did your best and that's what counts. You get exactly one(1) credit.

*blows a tiny horn in mild celebration*
Hahaha.
Cinder's backstory is a bit too much of a cliché for me I'll admit.

Any additional references did people see in this key episode besides liking the music?

Oz is in the literal belly of the whale.

[Kantaki]

Hahaha.
Cinder's backstory is a bit too much of a cliché for me I'll admit.

A little bit on the nose, yeah.
Makes me wonder how she ended up working for Salem though.
Because it's a bit ironic, she killed her foster family caretakers enslavers to be free and ended up serving Salem who treats her pretty much the same.
Only she's less of a stupid [beep] about it.
As I said, I'd pity Cinder, but... Cinder


Oz is in the literal belly of the whale.

Aren't they more in its forehead though? I thought that orange glow is where the throne room/bridge is.

[LaZodiac]

Hahaha.
Cinder's backstory is a bit too much of a cliché for me I'll admit.

Oz is in the literal belly of the whale.

What oh god no! That is NOT what I'm talking about, Cinder's backstory ****ing eats pants. It sucks. I would never say it is good, at all.

I'm talking about A trans character exists on screen and isn't abjectly terrible rep.

I'll admit I thought all y'all was on episode 7 because you... like the show.

[Fyraltari]

A little bit on the nose, yeah.
Makes me wonder how she ended up working for Salem though.
Because it's a bit ironic, she killed her foster family caretakers enslavers to be free and ended up serving Salem who treats her pretty much the same.
Only she's less of a stupid [beep] about it.
As I said, I'd pity Cinder, but... Cinder

It's a sad truth that abused people tend to find new abusers.


Aren't they more in its forehead though? I thought that orange glow is where the throne room/bridge is.

Well yeah, but this was more an episode(s) wide observation.

EDIT:

What oh god no! That is NOT what I'm talking about, Cinder's backstory ****ing eats pants. It sucks. I would never say it is good, at all.
My response to you, and my spoilered bit were unrelated, sorry for being unclear.


I'm talking about A trans character exists on screen and isn't abjectly terrible rep.
I'm afraid I missed them, who do you mean?

I'll admit I thought all y'all was on episode 7 because you... like the show.
Meh, I wouldn't say I like it but I don't find it bad enough to be actively angry. I just kind of forget about it until I see this thread bumped and go "might as well check it out." Though this season is really an improvement over the last two, had it been in the same ballpark, I would probably have stopped watching alltogether.

I certainly don't like it enough to pay for it.

[LaZodiac]

My response to you, and my spoilered bit were unrelated, sorry for being unclear.


I'm afraid I missed them, who do you mean?

Meh, I wouldn't say I like it but I don't find it bad enough to be actively angry. I just kind of forget about it until I see this thread bumped and go "might as well chzck it out." Though this season is really an improvement over the last two, had it been in the same ballpark, I would probably have stopped watching alltogether.

I certainly don't like it enough to pay for it.

Aah, sorry.

Also I somehow got the number wrong it's Episode 7, not 6 that I'm referring to specifically. Anyway, May Marigold was noted as being trans by a character designer or her voice actor, and in ep 7 it comes up as A Thing, so it is canon and matters slightly.

That sounds like liking it to me, personally. Because the series has done nothing but get worse in my opinion. It's kind of absurd.

[Ramza00]

What oh god no! That is NOT what I'm talking about, Cinder's backstory ****ing eats pants. It sucks. I would never say it is good, at all.

I'm talking about A trans character exists on screen and isn't abjectly terrible rep.

I'll admit I thought all y'all was on episode 7 because you... like the show.

I am on episode 7 but I try not to talk about current episodes besides teases of how good things are if I like things. I don't have a reason why I am like this but I am like this.

On the subject of Episode 7


Can we have May Marigold, the Trans character with the invisibility power, can we have her punch her cousin Henry Marigold again?
Henry being the annoying character from Vol 4 that caused Weiss to leave Atlas, breaking bonds with her father.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGv0PCxrflg





That sounds like liking it to me, personally. Because the series has done nothing but get worse in my opinion. It's kind of absurd.

I am liking the show more than I used to somewhere between season 4.5 to 7. I was so excited for season 1 and 2 that I was forgiving flaws for I thought the various creators were trying and they were on a shoestring budget and so on, so I ignored the very obvious flaws. But by season 4ish I was disillusioned.

And now it is reversion to the mean phenomena where I recognize the show is not good, but it is better than it used to be, and I can enjoy bad things generally for even bad shows often have things that are great mixed in with rough storytelling.

Just typed the 2 paragraphs above out, and while typing I realized I am literally describing Gartner's Hype Cycle except it is not a new technology or a new business product but instead an artistic product which follows different rules and so on. Well OOPS but I find this oops funny 😎


Emerald is going to pull an Aladdin and take the lamp away. Emerald also knows the password, Jinn, for the lamp.

Of course Hazel is going to try to use the lamp prior to doing that. But we need a twist at the end of the volume. Somehow Atlas and Mantle survive, but it looks like all bad things are loss but Salem loses the lamp due to Emerald so it is not all bad.

[Rawhide]

snip

[SPOILER]snip

Are you forgetting something? (Please label your spoilers as directed in the first post!)


I certainly don't like it enough to pay for it.

Then pay for VRV instead and get the RoosterTeeth channel along with Crunchyroll, HIDIVE, Cartoon Hangover, MONDO, and VRV Select.

[LaZodiac]

As an aside, a podcast I watch is doing a death pool. 100 points, dish'em out how you please.

Mine are;
DEATH POOL
Nora: 5
Ren: 5
Robin: 10
May: 50
Ironwood: 10
Ace Ops they're all one character don't @ me: 20

[Ramza00]

LaZodiac I do not like your game, I feel like I lose no matter what choice I make. :smalleek: You would make a much better Salem apprentice than Cinder.

[Kantaki]

I don't know why, but Tyrian is always a highlight when he gets a part.
But him calling other crazy is particularly great.
Especially since he has a point.
No, not how great and glorious Salem and her goals are, but that if you don't realise she's gonna murder everything after spending meeting her you need your head checked out.:smallamused:

[Fyraltari]

Then pay for VRV instead and get the RoosterTeeth channel along with Crunchyroll, HIDIVE, Cartoon Hangover, MONDO, and VRV Select.
None of these sound appealing to me.

I don't know why, but Tyrian is always a highlight when he gets a part.


You do you, but I think he's just the worst.

[Ramza00]

Know what I need


I need Tyrian to haunt the new kingdom he is going to. The desert one ... whose name I am blanking on. (Vaccual or something ... google says Vacuo - on the central continent of Sanus, huntsman academy Shade.)

But I need Tyrian to go to Shade and just annoy the two Team SSSN members Sun and Neptune. All these pranks, all these hijanks and it is literally driving those two not bright boys out of their minds. And nobody knows what is happening besides these exhausted SSSN members for Tyrian is having fun being absolutely wicked to these huntsman in training.

Meanwhile Team CFVY makes cameos and think SSSN is so unprofessional without knowing what is going on :smallamused:

-----

Yes I am cheering for Salem and team WTCH. I want her victory and I want the various team evil members to have as much fun as possible while the world burns. Except Cinder, I want her to suffer more in her pursuit of power, her keep on losing like she is in Team Rocket.

[The Fury]

Know what I need


I need Tyrian to haunt the new kingdom he is going to. The desert one ... whose name I am blanking on. (Vaccual or something ... google says Vacuo - on the central continent of Sanus, huntsman academy Shade.)

But I need Tyrian to go to Shade and just annoy the two Team SSSN members Sun and Neptune. All these pranks, all these hijanks and it is literally driving those two not bright boys out of their minds. And nobody knows what is happening besides these exhausted SSSN members for Tyrian is having fun being absolutely wicked to these huntsman in training.

Meanwhile Team CFVY makes cameos and think SSSN is so unprofessional without knowing what is going on :smallamused:

-----

Yes I am cheering for Salem and team WTCH. I want her victory and I want the various team evil members to have as much fun as possible while the world burns. Except Cinder, I want her to suffer more in her pursuit of power, her keep on losing like she is in Team Rocket.


Maybe this is because I've actually read After the Fall, but I've had more than enough of Team CVFY being smug.

[Ramza00]

Maybe this is because I've actually read After the Fall, but I've had more than enough of Team CVFY being smug.
After the Fall Stuff that I have not read but continuing that conversation so there may be spoilers

I am not saying my ideas are good, I am just trying to "save" broken cookies that did not turn out well in Vol 2 and Vol 3 of RWBY.

I can go read the After the Fall thread that you made, but anything in particular that "exhausts you" ? (and thus lets move onto the things about RWBY that actually work?)

[The Fury]

After the Fall Stuff that I have not read but continuing that conversation so there may be spoilers

I am not saying my ideas are good, I am just trying to "save" broken cookies that did not turn out well in Vol 2 and Vol 3 of RWBY.

I can go read the After the Fall thread that you made, but anything in particular that "exhausts you" ? (and thus lets move onto the things about RWBY that actually work?)


I'll be honest, It's kind of difficult to point to specific issues that I have with After the Fall. At least doing so succinctly. A lot of it is very subjective, like the humor. I've mentioned several times that After the Fall's jokes just don't land for me, they work for some people I assume. Overall, there's a general feeling that some of the characters, (Coco especially,) come off as unpleasant, but the text doesn't seem to acknowledge that these characters are flawed or should improve. The biggest issue I took is that there are a lot of flashbacks that don't really add anything to the overall story.

Uhh... if you do read through my Book Club thread, I apologize if I come off as needlessly sarcastic. But to give the book a fair shake, it does have some ideas in it that are pretty good and there's the bones of a decent story in there.

[Silverraptor]

So... anyone know why episode 8 hasn't come out yet?:smallconfused:

[The Fury]

Oh, is the mid-season hiatus over already? I know that a trailer for the second half of the volume dropped not too long ago.

[Rawhide]

So... anyone know why episode 8 hasn't come out yet?:smallconfused:

February 6th, 2021

[Silverraptor]

February 6th, 2021

Thank you Rawhide.:smallsmile:

[Ramza00]

So RWBY returns in less than a week, and I was wondering do we want i) to have some non-spoiler discussion ii) or something else?

Perhaps a iii) group rewatch right before episode 8? Right now I can not do iii in the next 72 hours, but who knows what later in the week will bring. By my math there is roughly 130 minutes of the first 7 episodes so the first half of Vol 8 is more or less a 2 hour movie feature length. (And this is including songs and end credits which some of us skip)

[Ramza00]

New RWBY it is acceptable.

[LaZodiac]

Y'all know that things are dire when diehard fans are like "this was agreeable". I can't wait to experience it vicariously through the podcast I watch that talks about RWBY.

[Ramza00]

Y'all know that things are dire when diehard fans are like "this was agreeable". I can't wait to experience it vicariously through the podcast I watch that talks about RWBY.

It was an episode where you can easily see the things it is borrowing from. It was an enjoyable experience. :smallsigh:

One is not going to remember it long term though. It is no Ratatouille. But that is okay, things are allowed to be acceptable.

Will talk more if others join the conversation :smalltongue:

[Rawhide]

Holy truck!

[Ramza00]

New episode, so 2nd episode of the 2nd half of the series for paying people and the 1st episode should be available if you have the "free account."

I say RWBY has finally decided what type of show it wants to be. It took 8 years to get there, and it is quite formulaic but by making the decision of what it wants to tell as a story it is a better story telling than the mix match of genres and stories it was telling earlier. I say we are pass the "dark ages" of seasons 4 to 6. (Of course you can argue what is the best and worse time of RWBY.)

I wish RWBY was better, but I am ecstatic that it is now more consistent.

[LaZodiac]

New episode, so 2nd episode of the 2nd half of the series for paying people and the 1st episode should be available if you have the "free account."

I say RWBY has finally decided what type of show it wants to be. It took 8 years to get there, and it is quite formulaic but by making the decision of what it wants to tell as a story it is a better story telling than the mix match of genres and stories it was telling earlier. I say we are pass the "dark ages" of seasons 4 to 6. (Of course you can argue what is the best and worse time of RWBY.)

I wish RWBY was better, but I am ecstatic that it is now more consistent.

I have NO idea what any of this could mean, and it is magical how scary that is.

[Rawhide]

Things are really heating up.

[Kantaki]

:smalleek:There was someone inside that thing all along?:smalleek:
Good thing I didn't watch this yesterday. I like sleeping.
Not quite as bad as the Apathy, but it's up there in the "[bleep] NO!" department.
Unless... How aware was that guy?:smalleek:

And Blake is right. The Grimm keep getting more disgusting.

Willow and Whitley were seriously badass though.
I really didn't expect that huge summon from Willow.

[DeadMech]

:smalleek:There was someone inside that thing all along?:smalleek:
Good thing I didn't watch this yesterday. I like sleeping.
Not quite as bad as the Apathy, but it's up there in the "[bleep] NO!" department.
Unless... How aware was that guy?:smalleek:

And Blake is right. The Grimm keep getting more disgusting.

Willow and Whitley were seriously badass though.
I really didn't expect that huge summon from Willow.

It makes sense that Willow can summon since she's the actual Schnee of the marriage. It was Weiss' father who married into the family name. I liked her and Whitley in this episode. They have their flaws but they were useful when the chips were down. Whitley is probably not even half as bad as Weiss assumes. A bit snarky and abrasive perhaps but nothing Weiss wasn't guilty of when she first left the home.

Not even the least bit surprised that there was someone transformed into the... whatever we're calling it. The evolved intelligent grimm. The first time it spoke some episodes back I'm pretty sure there was allot of speculation that Salem had turned someone into it.

[Rater202]

Reminder that Whitley's response to his sister coming home traumatized was to try and manipulate her into going against their father's wishes in the hopes that she'd be disowned and he'd be the sole remaining air, then taunt her about how foolish it is to go against their father with the kind of expression you'd see on a sociopath who had decided to stop pretending to be a functional person for a minute.

Whitley is exactly as bad as Weiss thinks he is.

[Kantaki]

It makes sense that Willow can summon since she's the actual Schnee of the marriage. It was Weiss' father who married into the family name. I liked her and Whitley in this episode. They have their flaws but they were useful when the chips were down. Whitley is probably not even half as bad as Weiss assumes. A bit snarky and abrasive perhaps but nothing Weiss wasn't guilty of when she first left the home.

I guess it's less that she can use it and more that she's good at it.
I probably made the same mistake her kids made and only saw the drinker, not who was buried beneath all that booze.


Reminder that Whitley's response to his sister coming home traumatized was to try and manipulate her into going against their father's wishes in the hopes that she'd be disowned and he'd be the sole remaining air, then taunt her about how foolish it is to go against their father with the kind of expression you'd see on a sociopath who had decided to stop pretending to be a functional person for a minute.

Whitley is exactly as bad as Weiss thinks he is.

I don't think Whitley is quite that bad.
Jacques did his best to raise him that way, sure, but unlike his father Whitley seems to have some decency left.
Now I'm not saying he's a good guy, or nice, but getting out of his father's shadow should help in that regard.

What we see in Whitley is what Weiss (and Winter) could've been if she hadn't found an way out and other people to influence her.

Of course suggesting using SDC assets could be pure pragmatism- after everything Jacques did the company can use every bit of good PR they can get, especially in Mantle and the crater. But so what? It's still helpful.
And probably more than daddy dearest would've done.

Basically I think this is the first time we see Whitley (and Willow), not Jaques influence on the family.
A little bit of the old family reputation, not what they got turned into.

[Ramza00]

Whitley


Whitley is literally awful. Yet he is sympathetic, even if he is just wrong.

There is a great Vimeo video “Lady Eboshi is Wrong” done by Innuendo Studios in response to Movies with Mikey video essay challenge what animation either tv show or movie shaped how you view the “real world.” (Note this video was once on YouTube but Studio Ghibli is so excessive with trying to take down any form of video even fair use than Innuendo Studios just put it on Vimeo for free.)

Lady Eboshi is a sympathetic character who is trying to make the world better, but in reality she is making things worse. She is creating conflict and thus more pain, she tries to square the circle by having the “wish-casting” desire that the people she does hurt and exploit become dumb animals so their pain and suffering will become mute, and perhaps they may feel temporary pain but there not gifted with higher cognition that creates suffering for “Suffering equals pain times resistance. The more we resist reality, the more we suffer.” Eboshi hopes this conflict and exploiting she is making can be used to liberate other people. Thus a form of scapegoating and sacrifice where she thinks she can make the sacrifice humane. Lady Eboshi is wrong per me and Innuendo Studio, she must be stopped but that does not mean we must remove kindness to Eboshi, nor does it mean we should not make a place for everyone including Lady Eboshi. A better world is still possible and it is made via both struggle and keeping kindness, being brave, plus lastly do not give into hate.

Whitley is the same. He is a child of an alcoholic just like his two sisters and he desperately craves control. His sisters were gifted with physical might and talents. Whitley hopes by becoming his father’s heir he can have the security he craves and he is willing to hurt people to gain that security such as betraying his sister for the world is cruel. Yet even though the world is cruel Whitley is not purposefully doing cruelty for the sake of cruelty. It is still merely a means to an end, cruelty for the sake of wishcasting.

Whitley is literally awful but he is not the worse. He is also capable of change but that change requires an environment he feels safe in (for he has trauma), and it requires him wanting to change. No one can force Whitley to change besides Whitley. In fact the crappy childhood caused by two bad parents is what got him there, them trying to force him to be X and Y.

[ Likewise the whole exploitation of others to mine Dust, making him in inured from other problems due to fabulous wealth, but this wealth masks the fact Whitley is part of a society and the problems of society not being addressed literally creates and summons Chaos monsters. ]

[Kantaki]

Neo took the lamp.:smallbiggrin:
I wonder how far she'll get.
And it seems Hazel finally realised that joining the Empire because his sister died fighting for the Rebellion was kinda stupid.

Oscar did Oz time magic thing at the end I guess?
Delaying Salem by trapping her in a time-stop or something like that.
Part of me hopes for a loop. So she can start burning again and again. But I don't think Hazel deserves that

Marrow continues to have a bad case of morals.
Let's hope that doesn't break his neck.

Winter not so much. She sounds heartbroken at admitting she'd blow up Weiss if she were inside the Fortress-Fish Grimm though, so not as bad as some others it seems.

[Ramza00]

So episode 10 is delayed until next week. Rooster Teeth is. Asked in Texas and they (including myself) have power and clean water problems. The episode was more or less finished supposedly but delaying it allowed the workers to focus on more important priorities.

[Ramza00]

New episodes, and I like Watts :smalltongue:

[LaZodiac]

All I know about today's episode, from my listening to Anime Slushie (a very good anime podcast I recommend you watch, especially their RWBY stuff, if you like my old writings on RWBY as a series) is that this episode has broken one of the host's brain. Also that Marrow sucks but that's not new.

[Ramza00]

All I know about today's episode, from my listening to Anime Slushie (a very good anime podcast I recommend you watch, especially their RWBY stuff, if you like my old writings on RWBY as a series) is that this episode has broken one of the host's brain. Also that Marrow sucks but that's not new.

Marrow does suck. (Brain blanked with that name for a moment.)

Silly doggy faunus loyalty does not exist when you have divided loyalties between multiple people and they are hurting one another. You can't just wish everyone "stays" and does not fight.

[LaZodiac]

Marrow does suck. (Brain blanked with that name for a moment.)

Silly doggy faunus loyalty does not exist when you have divided loyalties between multiple people and they are hurting one another. You can't just wish everyone "stays" and does not fight.

"hello I'm the character who is having a 'are we the baddies?' epiphany moment, except my boss literally shot a sitting seneator in front of me so the fact that I don't know what side I should be on makes no sense, also my power is stupid and doesn't work."

[Ramza00]

"hello I'm the character who is having a 'are we the baddies?' epiphany moment, except my boss literally shot a sitting seneator in front of me so the fact that I don't know what side I should be on makes no sense, also my power is stupid and doesn't work."

What is wrong with his power?

[LaZodiac]

What is wrong with his power?

It's used inconsistently because the power as established is too strong. It's a complete Fight Over button, so they end up having it work as the plot demands as opposed to any sensible way, and often just has him not use it.

[Rawhide]

Hey, I know we're discussing things not obtained from the show itself, but from a podcast, however some of it is still from the latest episode. Those parts should definitely still be in spoiler boxes.

[Ramza00]

It's used inconsistently because the power as established is too strong. It's a complete Fight Over button, so they end up having it work as the plot demands as opposed to any sensible way, and often just has him not use it.

Not going to trace back all the times and double check if they are used consistently. But to my understanding the power limits are.

1) Direction based. The power must be used in a single direction even if it affects multiple opponents. This is because the power uses Marrows eyes and he must have a fixed perspective when he uses it.
2) Marrow must remain pointing at the enemy for the power to operate. Thus Marrow must remain fixed more or less in one place while he remains pointing at the enemy / enemies and thus take him out of the fight even if he also takes the enemies out of the fight as well.
3) The more Marrow uses the ability in rapid succession the quicker it drains his aura reserves. The goal is to use it only once in a fight, he has messed up if he has to use the ability several times in a fight and is extremely vulnerable.
4) (This is an assumption) there is likely a range limit to Stay, for if there was no range limit the best way to use the power is far away like a Sniper, away from the combat.

Pretty much this move is a game changer if used correctly where it needs a team to work, but also an opponent team if they are mobile enough can easily counter it if they know how the power works prior to the combat. In some ways he is like Eraser Head from My Hero Academia, but instead of erasing a quirk he prevents movement but it is all over if Marrow blinks or moves.

[Ramza00]

This is LaZodiac bait.


So we have

Dust
Semblance
Magic
Word of God Time which the Cane Stores
Big Boom Kinetic Energy from the Ozpin Cane. No let's make it Big Boom Attack in honor of DBZA Big Bang Attack.

and what else? Surely there is more variant mechanics of superpowers than those 5 things? If Marrow points at the Cane and says "Stay" will Big Boom still happen? :smallamused:

[LaZodiac]

This is LaZodiac bait.


So we have

Dust
Semblance
Magic
Word of God Time which the Cane Stores
Big Boom Kinetic Energy from the Ozpin Cane. No let's make it Big Boom Attack in honor of DBZA Big Bang Attack.

and what else? Surely there is more variant mechanics of superpowers than those 5 things? If Marrow points at the Cane and says "Stay" will Big Boom still happen? :smallamused:



I want to snap that ****ing cane over my knee. Even ignoring the stupid "it stores time" retcon, it literally just erased nine episodes worth of effort instantly. It makes the only villain worth a damn look like a chump, and is just... it kills EVERY Grimm, with a kinetic energy explosion, but damages NOTHING else? REALLY?! This is just inexcusable how can you folk enjoy this???

And god, basically everything with Ironwood.

[Kantaki]

Watts definitely got the best part.:smallbiggrin:
Let's hope Cinder listens.
But even if not, her getting verbally ripped a new one by someone at her mercy was cathartic.

The band's finally back together.
Wonder how long that'll last...
Yang and Blake though...:smallamused:

Finally, Ironwood.:smallsigh:
That man seriously needs a five year old to go over his plans.
No really. Man should be old enough to know that „If I break your toys you have to play my games.“ doesn't work.
And this is actually worse.

If the choice is between working with the guy who wants to abandon people to their certain death or he actively murders them the obvious choice is to super kill him half to death.
Red Magnus has the best lines for moments like this.

Edit: I mean, I expected from the moment they brought back the bomb that Ironwood'd go „I'm gonna nuke the crater.“, but that doesn't change that it's beyond "card-carrying villain" levels of stupid to use it as a ultimatum.

[Ramza00]

The DnD campaign given visual form continues! :smalltongue:

[LaZodiac]

RWBY is terrible and I'm sorry for all of you.

Someone I know has reacted so viscerally to the latest episode (12) that I am going to watch it and respond to it in this thread in the future, once it's available for me, because I cannot wait for the podcast that will be about it. I must know what happens, and I refuse to let my pain go to waste.

[Kantaki]

It's nice that Marrow is trying to play the token good guy of Team Ironwood, but... yeah. Bad idea with how unstable his boss is.
Winter definitely saved his fluffy tail there.

The other Ace Ops can jump off Atlas. Jerks.
And part of me was actually hoping Ironwood was bluffing. A very small part, mind you, and I didn't really expect it, but still...:smalleek:

On the heroes' side... lots of pep-talk.
Emerald definitely got the best one.:smallbiggrin:
Why is it that evil teammates are to good at that.
Oh right, they don't care about hurting your feelings.:belkar:

[Ramza00]

Embrace the


Tippy-Verse with a literal divine artifact that acts as a Rod of Wish but only 1 Wish at a time. Until then we are going to use it as a giant ring of teleportation circle.

Is things going to not go according to plan? Of course for no sane DM will allow said magic to operate like this for there is no tension in the story then. Laughs :smalltongue: for the RWBY writers have no plan, they are DMs who are winging it and do not have any free time to think things through, even though they literally have a company whose job is to do this before animating it :smallbiggrin:

I take delight in bad things but also good things. If RWBY can't scratch one urge let me take malicious joy out of the other thing. [ Gives the Devilish Kirei Kotomine Grin, another anime which is quite bad actually. ]

[Delicious Taffy]

Y'know somethin', I'm starting to get the impression y'all don't really care much for this show on a genuine-enjoyment level. ;) (large wink indicating I'm in on The Joke)

That said, I've been enjoying this season a lot more than the past....three? Four? The characters' motivations haven't been pissing me off as much (QROW <_<), and it's seemed like the characters have been remembering their powers and gadgets more than usual.

[Rawhide]

Really digging the later half of this season. Picked up considerably.

But oh gods, oh gods, oh gods, oh gods...
Someone is going to fall, aren't they?

[Ramza00]

Y'know somethin', I'm starting to get the impression y'all don't really care much for this show on a genuine-enjoyment level. ;) (large wink indicating I'm in on The Joke)

That said, I've been enjoying this season a lot more than the past....three? Four? The characters' motivations haven't been pissing me off as much (QROW <_<), and it's seemed like the characters have been remembering their powers and gadgets more than usual.

I am having the time of my life here!

As a Don Bluth musical once taught me (Burt Reynolds singing) "Let Me Be Surprised" !

[Rawhide]

Y'know somethin', I'm starting to get the impression y'all don't really care much for this show on a genuine-enjoyment level. ;)

I've been thoroughly enjoying it since the beginning. I've even purchased all of the Blu-Rays.


RWBY is terrible and I'm sorry for all of you.

RWBY is great and I'm sorry you're not able to enjoy it.

[LaZodiac]

RWBY is great and I'm sorry you're not able to enjoy it.

I say this with every single genuine, heartfelt bone in my body.

How? Please, by all means, write an essay for me detailing why you like it, because we're firmly at the point where I am incapable of seeing how anyone could like it now.

Episode 10 had Oscar pull from his ass that the cane (that has been surrounded by clock metaphors and was shown to straight up let Oscar increase his speed) does not, as the creators said, store up time, but instead store of power. So he uses it to create a kinetic explosion that... kills all the Grimm and injuries or destroys nothing else, which makes no sense. Except no, it didn't kill all the grimm, they just didn't animate any for episode 10 since they're mostly all back in episode 11.

Marrow, a character who has been hemming and hawing about being on the side of the baddies for the entire two seasons we've known him, has seen Ironwood; murder a child, ordered them to arrest and or violently detain children trying to help during a grimm apocalypse, ordered them to arrest political opponents of his, SHOOT A SITTING COUNCILMAN IN THE FACE IN FRONT OF HIM, and threatened to kill EVERY poor citizen in Mantle... and only now, at the very end of all of that, is he going "hey, we might be the bad guys here".

There is this undercurrent of "it is your fault you were abused. You had one bad day, get over it" woven into the two main villains (Cinder and Salem) that is utterly disgusting. Genuinely bad people are easily forgiven for no reason (Weiss's brother is an absolute ******* who has not changed, and Emerald is just accepted as a friend now even though she killed Penny). They also literally discovered that that big scary Grimm is a person, and continuously call him "it" even after that, which is just really nasty. This was a person!

And, in the most recent episode; the series explicitly says that if you have artificial parts, you are less human. If you're human you need a flesh and bone body otherwise you're not actually a real person. This is capped off by Penny getting a magical good girl body... and watching her robot self die in front of her. And then Ironwood gets more prosthetics because that's suuuuper eeeevil apparently. I shouldn't have to tell you how ablest this is.

And that's just the writing! So yeah I'd like you to explain what is good about it now, because I can't see enjoying it in any way other than like watching a train crash.

[Rawhide]

And, in the most recent episode; the series explicitly says that if you have artificial parts, you are less human. If you're human you need a flesh and bone body otherwise you're not actually a real person. This is capped off by Penny getting a magical good girl body... and watching her robot self die in front of her. And then Ironwood gets more prosthetics because that's suuuuper eeeevil apparently. I shouldn't have to tell you how ablest this is.

Huh?

When the heck does it ever state this?

It actually does the complete opposite. When Yang first loses her arm she feels less human, it takes time for her to come to terms with it, and in this episode she demonstrates that she is still completely human despite her robotic arm.

[LaZodiac]

Huh?

When the heck does it ever state this?

It actually does the complete opposite. When Yang first loses her arm she feels less human, it takes time for her to come to terms with it, and in this episode she demonstrates that she is still completely human despite her robotic arm.

The "despite the robotic arm" bit is what I'm talking about. There should be no "despite". Making Penny become a Real Girl, while Ironwood gains more prosthetics, is an explicit telling of the show "if you have these yo are bad".

Yang literally says "this robotic arm isn't a part of me" and compares Penny's body to her arm. That's horrible!

[Rawhide]

The "despite the robotic arm" bit is what I'm talking about. There should be no "despite". Making Penny become a Real Girl, while Ironwood gains more prosthetics, is an explicit telling of the show "if you have these yo are bad".

Yang literally says "this robotic arm isn't a part of me" and compares Penny's body to her arm. That's horrible!

Uhh, I don't know how you've managed to turn the scene into the exact opposite of what it is, but you have.

Here's the exact words Yang says: *arm flex* "The mechanical parts are just... extra."

She's accepted that she's as human as she was before, and is proudly demonstrating that. A huge turnaround from when she first lost her arm.

[LaZodiac]

Uhh, I don't know how you've managed to turn the scene into the exact opposite of what it is, but you have.

Here's the exact words Yang says: *arm flex* "The mechanical parts are just... extra."

She's accepted that she's as human as she was before, and is proudly demonstrating that. A huge turnaround from when she first lost her arm.

I think we're just reading the line differently. Because that to me sounds like she's saying that her arm is not really a part of her, it's something "extra", which it definitely isn't. If she was actually at terms with it, she'd have accepted it as a part of her body, not some other mechanical "extra" bit. Comparing Penny to her arm still feels gross even with your read of the line though.

And again, Penny getting a flesh body and watching her robot body die, contrasted with Ironwood gaining more mechanical bits, is pretty clear symbolic writing. The more machine you are, the less human and good you are.

[Rawhide]

I think we're just reading the line differently. Because that to me sounds like she's saying that her arm is not really a part of her, it's something "extra", which it definitely isn't. If she was actually at terms with it, she'd have accepted it as a part of her body, not some other mechanical "extra" bit. Comparing Penny to her arm still feels gross even with your read of the line though.

And again, Penny getting a flesh body and watching her robot body die, contrasted with Ironwood gaining more mechanical bits, is pretty clear symbolic writing. The more machine you are, the less human and good you are.

The line was in direct reference to Penny who has a 100% mechanical body. Penny is human. It doesn't matter that she has a mechanical body. She is human.

And Ruby literally only a few moments earlier said "She is dying".

She.

Dying.
P.S. You're accidentally mislabelling your spoilers. I've fixed it, you put 6 instead of 8 for the volume.

[LaZodiac]

The line was in direct reference to Penny who has a 100% mechanical body. Penny is human. It doesn't matter that she has a mechanical body. She is human.

And Ruby literally only a few moments earlier said "She is dying".

She.

Dying.
P.S. You're accidentally mislabelling your spoilers. I've fixed it, you put 6 instead of 8 for the volume.

My apologies about mislabeling the spoilers.

Yes, Ruby is saying those things. That has nothing to do with the fact that they're presenting her artificial body as a negative. This isn't a conversation about "is Penny human" but "is Penny less human because she lacks a flesh body". Which RWBY is saying yes, she is less human. It's her soul that matters, not her body.

Which is the problem here. She IS human, she DOES have a soul, she doesn't NEED a flesh body. But she gets one. What does that say, when the villain of the arc is replacing himself with metal? Yang compares her artificial arm to Penny's body, saying it's "just extra", as if it is not part of her. Penny gets a flesh body back to replace her artificial one, and because of their tying her body with Yang's arm, the meaning is clear.

What does that say about people who use prosthetics? Because it IS saying something.

[Rawhide]

My apologies about mislabeling the spoilers.

Yes, Ruby is saying those things. That has nothing to do with the fact that they're presenting her artificial body as a negative. This isn't a conversation about "is Penny human" but "is Penny less human because she lacks a flesh body". Which RWBY is saying yes, she is less human. It's her soul that matters, not her body.

Which is the problem here. She IS human, she DOES have a soul, she doesn't NEED a flesh body. But she gets one. What does that say, when the villain of the arc is replacing himself with metal? Yang compares her artificial arm to Penny's body, saying it's "just extra", as if it is not part of her. Penny gets a flesh body back to replace her artificial one, and because of their tying her body with Yang's arm, the meaning is clear.

What does that say about people who use prosthetics? Because it IS saying something.

Once again, it's saying the exact opposite.

Look, I'm getting this out of the way before we progress any further. Penny = Pinocchio. There's no way she's getting out of this story without getting a human body.

But the way they've done it is very clever. She didn't get a human body because her mechanical body was any less. She didn't get a human body because she wasn't human. She got a human body because the virus needed to be a part of her, but still not able to affect her.

She was human all along. She didn't need a human body to be human. She needed it to survive.

[Rater202]

Without having seen the episode.Did Iron Wood need additional prophetic parts? Was he further injured?

Or did he replace parts of his body without need?

Because casting off your flesh and blood without reason is a very different thing from needing a prophetic. Zodi, you and I have spoken about how we'd both be hesitant to get bionic limbs or replacement organs if there wasn't something wrong with our original body-members.

Another thing to note is, with the Wizard of Oz metaphor going on with Ozpin's associates, Ironwood is obviously the Tin Man. The Tin Man believed himself to be less than human, unable to feel proper human emotion, despite all evidence to the contrary, becuase his flesh had been replaced with tin and he no longer had a heart. It's possible that Ironwood's additional prosthetics being framed as making him less human are becuase that is, consciously or subconsciously, what he himself believes.

[Ramza00]

I think we're just reading the line differently. Because that to me sounds like she's saying that her arm is not really a part of her, it's something "extra", which it definitely isn't. If she was actually at terms with it, she'd have accepted it as a part of her body, not some other mechanical "extra" bit. Comparing Penny to her arm still feels gross even with your read of the line though.

And again, Penny getting a flesh body and watching her robot body die, contrasted with Ironwood gaining more mechanical bits, is pretty clear symbolic writing. The more machine you are, the less human and good you are.

That was Atlas culture, crappy abusive culture of the previous generation.


Penny was made for Ironwood is abusive dad (and other things.)

He wanted to create weapons, he wanted to dehumanize, he wanted to create tools, he has opinions of the Faunus and Humans, yet being part of the Military vs Civilian trumps those Faunus and Human feelings. It is all toxic BS, it is all great chain of being nonsense.

The RWBY writers are bad writers, and I am enjoying this for their non-mastery of their craft is full of surprised. I also see how this can just generate pain.

But we are in a situation where we can not tell if this is the RWBY writers trying to create show themes, or themes of an individual person and a specific culture. Ironwood is pure toxicity, now is Penny going to rebuke this culture and challenge the entire toxic system her primordial father taught her?

I really do not know! And that is why RWBY is exciting, it is so utterly disappointing some of the time, other times it brings the joy, it is pure chaotic mess.

————

So I hate the Wizard of Oz metaphors, for L. Frank Baum did not have metaphor as his ideas in the original book, the musical which made the book successful, the dozen plus books that happened after, or the 1939 movie. Metaphor was not the original goal, but due to the success of the 1939 musical we project backwards and created new metaphor. For example in 1964 Henry Littlefield created an analysis that the Wizard of Oz is political satire (it is not , it has numerous errors) and this created a whole host of meaning that I see as bullocks but hey if it means something to you it means something to you.

So taking my grumbling to this show, what is Ironwood for there are contradictory meanings of what the Tin Man is in other lore. Well in RWBY Ironwood is a contradiction for he wants to be more machine like, he wants the resolve due to his semblance making him have resolve (it is called Mettle) and he can power through when stuff gets weird in the battle. He is frustrated the rest of the world is not like him and thus he creates his iron little soldiers. Furthermore he is frustrated his emotions gives life meaning, but also emotions get in the way of things, and he can not square this contradiction. All too human and the man is self loathing. And self loathing man is abusive.

He wants a hug from Qrow so much in vol 7, I can not wait for Qrow to give him a final hug.

[Rater202]

Okay, looking up the detailsIronwood stripped the flesh from his arm while saying "there's nothing I won't sacrifice" and that's why he got the new prosthetic.

In Ironwood's case, the new prosthetic is symbolic of his willingness to throw away anything, even his flesh and blood, after going off the deep end, and that's why it's presented negatively.

I can understand why that might be uncomfortable, especially compared to Penny becoming flesh and blood human, but I don't think it's intended to be "prosthetic parts make you less human."

I think that is an unintended implication.

[gmoyes]

I quite like what they did with Penny this season. She's a better protagonist than team RWBY is. Same with Oscar, even with how boring he is.

I'm more concerned they are sending all the refugees to Vacuo.
The in the middle of a desert Vacuo.
The culture that emphasizes self sufficiency Vacuo.
The city that Salem is going to attack next Vacuo.

Vacuo is not going to be able to feed a few hundred thousand refugees showing up out of the blue. The people will not like having to support a bunch of freeloading nobles. And what is the plan for all these civilians when Salem shows up? Sure it has the only functioning Huntsman Academy for fighters, but even with the entire Huntsmen population if Mistral killed off, we don't ever see them being overrun by Grimm. They are only going to Vacuo because team RWBY is going to Vacuo and is dragging everyone along with them.

[Ramza00]

Okay, looking up the detailsIronwood stripped the flesh from his arm while saying "there's nothing I won't sacrifice" and that's why he got the new prosthetic.

In Ironwood's case, the new prosthetic is symbolic of his willingness to throw away anything, even his flesh and blood, after going off the deep end, and that's why it's presented negatively.

I can understand why that might be uncomfortable, especially compared to Penny becoming flesh and blood human, but I don't think it's intended to be "prosthetic parts make you less human."

I think that is an unintended implication.
Yep


I am confident that the writers are not thinking about this. But if they were they are doing the Tin Man metaphor that tears cause rust, rust cause things to break, must not cry, also no rain or other moisture.

*Sigh*

[Delicious Taffy]

Yep


But if they were they are doing the Tin Man metaphor that tears cause rust, rust cause things to break, must not cry, also no rain or other moisture.

*Sigh*



So, what you're saying is, they need to dip ol' Jimmy-boy in a nice big puddle of that good dihydrogen monoxide (AKA put 'im in the Drown House)? I'm down for that. I wanna see more actual character death in this show. Our on-screen, present-day body count so far is, what? Pyrrha, Leon or whatever, Old Ozpin, Abmer, Clover, Hazel, and Vernal? Over eight seasons, that's downright tame.

Speaking of Hazel, I really liked him in this season. The second somebody gets through his chickensh** bad-boy front, he Hulks out on Salem and just starts beating her ass. Granted, she's obviously not losing or anything close to it, but I liked seeing that she'd totally be beatable if it weren't for the immortality. Like, sure she's still got all that funky magic and whatever, but she can't take a hit for anything. Probably because she's immortal and never had to learn. Also, Yang got to blow something up right before that, and I like when Yang blows stuff up.

[LaZodiac]

So I've watched the episode now.

The context of the line makes it very clear that they are saying that Penny's mechanical body is not really real and doesn't matter. That having a mechanical prosthetic is not actually a real body. You're free to read it differently, but the fact is that's what they're saying. It doesn't help that the actual process that happens here makes no sense as well, the flesh body kinda comes out of complete nowhere, as if removing all the robot bits just generated a true human body for her to have. Almost as if to say, having those robot parts made her inhuman.

Let's also just ignore the fact that according to these nebulous and really, truly undefined rules, why would this protect Penny from the "he can only make one thing at a time" clause? Why does him taking her parts off and then making a new her without her soul that will then die in front of her vanish when he makes a new thing? Why can't they just have him remove the virus? He isn't MAKING anything new, he's using parts that already exist. It absolute nonsense.

and also let me be clear, "Penny is based on Pinnochio so she HAS to get a real body" is ****ing stupid. The fairy tale connective tissue was always annoying, badly utilized if at all, and dumb as hell, and using it as a justification for this absolute monstrosity of a writing decision is ridiculous.

I need anyone who thinks this is a good thing to realize that intent is irrelevant to the actual results. Which, ironically, is very much the flaw of our heroes, who did nothing but make the problem worse by existing.

[Ramza00]

LaZodiac I get it. It stinks. I also have given up with nuance with RWBY that is basic human decency stuff with the whole Faunus debacle.

Please keep dragging RWBY. Stuff like this.



Mary Cagle
@cubewatermelon
https://twitter.com/cubewatermelon/status/1368309058445381633
Mar 6
I have once again reached the stage of RWBY madness that can only be expressed in comic form
(Spoilers for the new ep)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ev011OqWYAMR_rW?format=jpg&name=medium

[Anyr]

Speaking of Hazel, I really liked him in this season.

Really? I couldn't fathom him. His motivations make no sense to me. He's an apparently compassionate person, with a desire to preserve life; Who also works for the Queen of all Grimm. Hazel despises Ozpin, because Ozpin's scheming played a part in the death of Hazel's sister. But he'll willingly serve the world's most heinous mass murderer. Ever since his introduction, I've been waiting for this contradiction to resolve itself. Would his supposed morals turn out to be an act? Was his service part of a secret plan? Neither, as it turned out. Apparently he works for Salem because...he's scared of her. Oh, and because she offered him revenge against someone he hates. That's it.

All that build up, for nothing. Hazel should have died before the series even began. He should have fought Salem to the bitter end, back when he first challenged her. Why did he decide to help her murder people? I still don't know. I doubt that even the writers could tell me. They don't seem to know either.

[Ramza00]

There is one more thing about Hazel's motivations


Hazel

1) Hates Ozpin
2) Hates current governments for he learned the truth they are all loosely allied with Ozpin.
3) Knows there is a cosmic war that has lasted at least 100 years, probably thousands of years. Ozpin was king of Vale during the Great War
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/rwby/images/f/f5/TGW_Vale1.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/500?cb=20200406131902
4) King of Vale (Ozma) won the Great War and he had the Sword of Destruction (also his Scepter the Ozpin Cane.) The 4 kingdoms met on Vytal and the King of Vale was generous with peace terms, abolished slavery, equal rights for the faunus, given the island of Menagerie, founded the 4 Huntsman Academies, etc, etc. Yadda, Yadda, Yadda we are supposed to sympathize with Prof X / Dumbledore / Old Man archetype. [ I don't ]
5) Hazel's sister dies in Ozpin's war.
6) Hazel tries to kill Salem
7) Salem tells him the current broken world is a result of Ozpin, but also the conflict between Ozpin and Salem. Salem saids if she gets the 4 god artifacts she will create a better world.

So pretty much Hazel is a nihilist with a grudge, and besides settling his grudge with Ozpin, thinks letting Salem win will create a better world.

Oscar says no, Salem just wants to die, Hazel does not believe Oscar until Oscar does a leap of faith and tells Hazel the name of the genie, Jinn.

[LaZodiac]

LaZodiac I get it. It stinks. I also have given up with nuance with RWBY that is basic human decency stuff with the whole Faunus debacle.

Please keep dragging RWBY. Stuff like this.





I just wanted to lay out all my thoughts and get them out of my head, is all. I'm glad we're on agreement on this.

Also hey look it's Mary Cagle, I know that lady. She rules and her podcast is good.

[Ramza00]

I just wanted to lay out all my thoughts and get them out of my head, is all. I'm glad we're on agreement on this.

Also hey look it's Mary Cagle, I know that lady. She rules and her podcast is good.

I was thinking about adding another line encouraging your anger and frustrations. They are valid. I was just afraid it would be "too much."

[LaZodiac]

I was thinking about adding another line encouraging your anger and frustrations. They are valid. I was just afraid it would be "too much."

Give into my anger and frustration? Sure thing Friendpatine :smallamused:

[Anyr]

There is one more thing about Hazel's motivations


Hazel

1) Hates Ozpin
2) Hates current governments for he learned the truth they are all loosely allied with Ozpin.
3) Knows there is a cosmic war that has lasted at least 100 years, probably thousands of years. Ozpin was king of Vale during the Great War
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/rwby/images/f/f5/TGW_Vale1.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/500?cb=20200406131902
4) King of Vale (Ozma) won the Great War and he had the Sword of Destruction (also his Scepter the Ozpin Cane.) The 4 kingdoms met on Vytal and the King of Vale was generous with peace terms, abolished slavery, equal rights for the faunus, given the island of Menagerie, founded the 4 Huntsman Academies, etc, etc. Yadda, Yadda, Yadda we are supposed to sympathize with Prof X / Dumbledore / Old Man archetype. [ I don't ]
5) Hazel's sister dies in Ozpin's war.
6) Hazel tries to kill Salem
7) Salem tells him the current broken world is a result of Ozpin, but also the conflict between Ozpin and Salem. Salem saids if she gets the 4 god artifacts she will create a better world.

So pretty much Hazel is a nihilist with a grudge, and besides settling his grudge with Ozpin, thinks letting Salem win will create a better world.

Oscar says no, Salem just wants to die, Hazel does not believe Oscar until Oscar does a leap of faith and tells Hazel the name of the genie, Jinn.


That's not a real explanation. Salem leads the Grimm: The race of soulless abominations that keep trying to eat everyone. She's blatantly, undeniably evil. Hazel must know that her desired world will be a nightmare. Salem's other subordinates certainly do. Some are maniacs like Tyrian, who want to see the world destroyed. Some are selfish traitors like Roman and Watts, who believe that they'll stand safely above the burning peasants. Those mindsets aren't compatible with Hazel. In order for his character to work, he needs a more coherent motivation than "I'm scared and want to punch Ozpin".

[Dragonexx]

So I've watched the episode now.

The context of the line makes it very clear that they are saying that Penny's mechanical body is not really real and doesn't matter. That having a mechanical prosthetic is not actually a real body. You're free to read it differently, but the fact is that's what they're saying. It doesn't help that the actual process that happens here makes no sense as well, the flesh body kinda comes out of complete nowhere, as if removing all the robot bits just generated a true human body for her to have. Almost as if to say, having those robot parts made her inhuman.

Let's also just ignore the fact that according to these nebulous and really, truly undefined rules, why would this protect Penny from the "he can only make one thing at a time" clause? Why does him taking her parts off and then making a new her without her soul that will then die in front of her vanish when he makes a new thing? Why can't they just have him remove the virus? He isn't MAKING anything new, he's using parts that already exist. It absolute nonsense.

and also let me be clear, "Penny is based on Pinnochio so she HAS to get a real body" is ****ing stupid. The fairy tale connective tissue was always annoying, badly utilized if at all, and dumb as hell, and using it as a justification for this absolute monstrosity of a writing decision is ridiculous.

I need anyone who thinks this is a good thing to realize that intent is irrelevant to the actual results. Which, ironically, is very much the flaw of our heroes, who did nothing but make the problem worse by existing.

What's even worse about this is that Penny isn't shown to have any input on this decision to turn her into a "real girl", this is just done for her, seemingly without any decision on her part.

[Ramza00]

That's not a real explanation. Salem leads the Grimm: The race of soulless abominations that keep trying to eat everyone. She's blatantly, undeniably evil. Hazel must know that her desired world will be a nightmare. Salem's other subordinates certainly do. Some are maniacs like Tyrian, who want to see the world destroyed. Some are selfish traitors like Roman and Watts, who believe that they'll stand safely above the burning peasants. Those mindsets aren't compatible with Hazel. In order for his character to work, he needs a more coherent motivation than "I'm scared and want to punch Ozpin".
Hazel and Salem

1) So you are comparing Salem and the Grimm to a force of nature, like a hurricane.
2) Yet the force of nature has specific goals, and with those goals met one need not do the old behaviors for the behaviors were means to an end. Salem was not doing nasty things (in Hazel's mind) because she likes being Evil.
3) Note the "Grimm" that are not in Salem's direct control may do those things naturally.
4) Pretty much Hazel sees Salem like Storm from the X-Men. A person who can prevent horrible wickedness of the current natural world, and of current man's world (as it is constructed by Ozpin) and one can smash the system and build it anew.

Of course this is pure motivated reasoning on Hazel's part. He has limited information and the more questions asked, and the more information gained from those questions the more you can be confident and certain of Hazel's decision.

Pretty much I am saying Hazel is still doing logic I would not do. I understand his internal consistency but I disagree with it. It makes more sense than what Ironwood and what that Lion's name again is doing. But yeah Ironwood is also doing something that is internally consistent, but once again I say it is a self-serving justification.

*shrug* :smallsigh:

The silliness of RWBY from a plot perspective is not the animating forces of Hazel or Ironwood. Half a dozen character motivations make less sense, let alone the actions taken to achieve the "goals" of these internal motivations.

-----

So

So let's give the writter's a rod of Wish! :smallbiggrin:

[LaZodiac]

What's even worse about this is that Penny isn't shown to have any input on this decision to turn her into a "real girl", this is just done for her, seemingly without any decision on her part.


Yeah it took me a bit to click on that. Not only is it super ablest, they also did it without any input from her! Or from her dad, who should technically still be alive in Amity, but I guess no one cares about him now. Especially since you know he could, say, look at Penny and find a way to fix her problem without any divine intervention nonsense.

[Rawhide]

So I've watched the episode now.

The context of the line makes it very clear that they are saying that Penny's mechanical body is not really real and doesn't matter. That having a mechanical prosthetic is not actually a real body. You're free to read it differently, but the fact is that's what they're saying. It doesn't help that the actual process that happens here makes no sense as well, the flesh body kinda comes out of complete nowhere, as if removing all the robot bits just generated a true human body for her to have. Almost as if to say, having those robot parts made her inhuman.

"makes it very clear"

No, it doesn't. I think you're taking your hate for RWBY and using it to see what you want to see. You've got a preconceived notion you're trying to validate, and have gone into this episode wanting to see a message you created before you had even seen the episode, and now you're finding a way to see it.

The context of the line makes it very clear that they are saying that you are human regardless of what your body is made of. You don't need flesh to be human.


What's even worse about this is that Penny isn't shown to have any input on this decision to turn her into a "real girl", this is just done for her, seemingly without any decision on her part.

Bobbie is dying and agrees to undergo surgery. Bobbie needs to be put into a state where Bobbie can't communicate in any way in order to undergo this surgery. Bobbie agrees and consents to whatever is necessary to keep Bobbie alive.

Penny is in pretty much this exact situation. No one knew what it would entail when they all, together, came up with the request. Everyone had input on the request, Penny even supplied her schematics. No one specifically asked for this exact thing to happen, it is just what the doctor djinn worked out was the only way to save her. He had her consent to do whatever was necessary to save her, and he did.

[LaZodiac]

"makes it very clear"

No, it doesn't. I think you're taking your hate for RWBY and using it to see what you want to see. You've got a preconceived notion you're trying to validate, and have gone into this episode wanting to see a message you created before you had even seen the episode, and now you're finding a way to see it.

The context of the line makes it very clear that they are saying that you are human regardless of what your body is made of. You don't need flesh to be human.



Bobbie is dying and agrees to undergo surgery. Bobbie needs to be put into a state where Bobbie can't communicate in any way in order to undergo this surgery. Bobbie agrees and consents to whatever is necessary to keep Bobbie alive.

Penny is in pretty much this exact situation. No one knew what it would entail when they all, together, came up with the request. Everyone had input on the request, Penny even supplied her schematics. No one specifically asked for this exact thing to happen, it is just what the doctor djinn worked out was the only way to save her. He had her consent to do whatever was necessary to save her, and he did.

If you don't need flesh to be human, why did they show that then? Why did they have Yang be dismissive of prosthetics by saying it's "just extra". What was the reason for this.

And I didn't WANT to see this happen. I didn't come in here expecting it to conform to my expectations, I was hoping it would not disappoint me. But it did.

[Rawhide]

If you don't need flesh to be human, why did they show that then? Why did they have Yang be dismissive of prosthetics by saying it's "just extra". What was the reason for this.

And I didn't WANT to see this happen. I didn't come in here expecting it to conform to my expectations, I was hoping it would not disappoint me. But it did.

Yang showed that having prosthetics didn't make her any less human.

Maybe you don't consciously think you want to find that, but it's pretty obvious by your prejudices that you do. You'd already made up your mind before you even began to watch it.

[LaZodiac]

Yang showed that having prosthetics didn't make her any less human.

Maybe you don't consciously think you want to find that, but it's pretty obvious by your prejudices that you do. You'd already made up your mind before you even began to watch it.

Okay. I think you're being disingenuous to me, but I don't really care.

If it "doesn't matter", and that it "doesn't make her any less human" that she had a metal body, why did they (as in, the writers) get rid of it? Why did they put so much emphasis on the fact that now she can feel hugs "for real". As if her previous body couldn't. As if the change from metal to meat was better for her.

Does that not strike you as even a LITTLE weird? If artificial parts are good, why is so much emphasis put on how much better Penny is without it?

[Rawhide]

Okay. I think you're being disingenuous to me, but I don't really care.

If it "doesn't matter", and that it "doesn't make her any less human" that she had a metal body, why did they (as in, the writers) get rid of it? Why did they put so much emphasis on the fact that now she can feel hugs "for real". As if her previous body couldn't. As if the change from metal to meat was better for her.

Does that not strike you as even a LITTLE weird? If artificial parts are good, why is so much emphasis put on how much better Penny is without it?

I don't think I am at all, I'm talking about your perspective and the lens you're seeing RWBY, and especially this episode, from. By the way, it's not meant as an insult, it's just something people do without even realising.

Because a human body can feel hugs in an entirely different way to a metal body? It doesn't mean that everything is better for her, it just means that she is now experiencing something totally new to her.

Fish fingers and custard.
Edit: By the way you accidentally put the opening spoiler tag in the wrong place, causing a slight glitch. I've edited your post to fix it.

[LaZodiac]

I don't think I am at all, I'm talking about your perspective and the lens you're seeing RWBY, and especially this episode, from. By the way, it's not meant as an insult, it's just something people do without even realising.

Because a human body can feel hugs in an entirely different way to a metal body? It doesn't mean that everything is better for her, it just means that she is now experiencing something totally new to her.

Fish fingers and custard.
Edit: By the way you accidentally put the opening spoiler tag in the wrong place, causing a slight glitch. I've edited your post to fix it.

Thank you, did not notice.

I'm pretty sure Penny's robot body could feel things. And the exact phrase is "do hugs make you feel this warm inside", with the implication that her human self is making it better. Which is a clear example of how it IS saying that her change is "better" for her. Which is nonsense, and feeds into that belief that you are lesser for having prosthetics.

... what is the point of just saying fish fingers and custard?

[Rawhide]

Thank you, did not notice.

I'm pretty sure Penny's robot body could feel things. And the exact phrase is "do hugs make you feel this warm inside", with the implication that her human self is making it better. Which is a clear example of how it IS saying that her change is "better" for her. Which is nonsense, and feeds into that belief that you are lesser for having prosthetics.

... what is the point of just saying fish fingers and custard?

Her robot body could sense things. It's entirely different to having trillions of nerve endings. It's an entirely different and new experience for her, just like when The Doctor got a new body (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo2RKAHu-kI).

[LaZodiac]

Her robot body could sense things. It's entirely different to having trillions of nerve endings. It's an entirely different and new experience for her, just like when The Doctor got a new body (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo2RKAHu-kI).

Ah, okay, a reference I don't get.

Anyway, you at least see where I'm coming from right? That the implication is there, that Penny was inferior, or wrong, or "incomplete" in a way because she lacked a human body, and her getting it fixed all that, and how that feels pretty negative to people with prosthetics, yeah?

[Rater202]

If I might make a non-RWBY example for how different people might see these things?A few years ago, Marvel did a mini-series called Venomverse, being a Spider-Verse spinoff starring differant versions of Venom instead of differant versions of Spider-Man.

One of the alternate Venoms, Ngozi, was a teenaged athlete and bug collecting enthusiast from Nigeria. Her athletic career was cut short when she was left paralyzed from the waist down by a bus crash.

She adjusted to life in a wheel-chair but was still... Upset? Resentful? I'm not sure what the right word to use is that she could no longer walk.

One day, while out collecting grasshoppers, something peculiar happened: Spider-Man and Hulk villain the Rhino was hunting the Venom symbiote for unknown reasons, and somehow tracked it to Nigeria, being pursued in turn by The Black Panther. T'Challa put up a good fight but The Black Panther is, physically, not on the same level as the Rhino and he was getting his ass kicked.

The Symbiote, trying to avoid being captured, bonded to Ngozi. At first, the girl was terrified both by the symbiote at the nearby superhero battle, but once she realized the symbiote granted her powers—and restored her ability to walk—she immediately jumped into the fight to help the Black Panther.

The T'Challa of her universe ultimately died from his injuries, but the bravery and good nature demonstrated by immediately getting involved to try and help as soon as she was physically able to lead to her being recruited into the Dora Milage and eventually becoming the Interim Black Panther until a member of the Royal family suited to be a monarch came of age. (It is implied but not stated that the Wakandan Herb caused her to be permanently bonded to the symbiote.)

Naturally, Ngozi was happy to be able to walk again.

A woman by the name of Jazmine Joyer rote and article that stated that Ngozi and her origin story are ableist, depicting the inability to walk as an inherently bad thing that needs to be fixed, but...

I don't see it. I do not see how depicting a teenager who was upset over losing her ability to walk in a freak accident being happy that she was given the ability to walk again is ableist and is making a statement about anything but that one character's opinion. The comic never implies that being disabled makes you less, only that this one character isn't happy about it but is in turn happy to no longer need special accommodations to deal with it.

Having read the article and Ngozi's origin story, I can see where the woman is coming from, but I don't see it.

Side note, I really like Ngozi's design.https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/d/d8/Black_Panther_Long_Live_The_King_Vol_1_6_Textless. jpg/revision/latest?cb=20200414101933

From what I know, I don't think that "it's just extra" is inherently invalidating prosthetics. From what I know of Yang, it's in character for her to think of her arm as less part of her body and more a tool, something above and beyond herself that makes up for shortcomings caused by her injury... Especially since her prosthetic is also a gun.

I can also see Penny, who was self-conscious about being a robot in her first appearances, enjoying being able to feel a sensation as a flesh and blood person.

But, I can also understand why Zodi is seeing the ableist themes there. Especially since the emphasis is placed on Ironwood's new prosthetic as symbolic of his willingness to cast aside his humanity to defeat Salem what with his only needing it because he maimed himself to secure a victory over an enemy.

[LaZodiac]

If I might make a non-RWBY example for how different people might see these things?A few years ago, Marvel did a mini-series called Venomverse, being a Spider-Verse spinoff starring differant versions of Venom instead of differant versions of Spider-Man.

One of the alternate Venoms, Ngozi, was a teenaged athlete and bug collecting enthusiast from Nigeria. Her athletic career was cut short when she was left paralyzed from the waist down by a bus crash.

She adjusted to life in a wheel-chair but was still... Upset? Resentful? I'm not sure what the right word to use is that she could no longer walk.

One day, while out collecting grasshoppers, something peculiar happened: Spider-Man and Hulk villain the Rhino was hunting the Venom symbiote for unknown reasons, and somehow tracked it to Nigeria, being pursued in turn by The Black Panther. T'Challa put up a good fight but The Black Panther is, physically, not on the same level as the Rhino and he was getting his ass kicked.

The Symbiote, trying to avoid being captured, bonded to Ngozi. At first, the girl was terrified both by the symbiote at the nearby superhero battle, but once she realized the symbiote granted her powers—and restored her ability to walk—she immediately jumped into the fight to help the Black Panther.

The T'Challa of her universe ultimately died from his injuries, but the bravery and good nature demonstrated by immediately getting involved to try and help as soon as she was physically able to lead to her being recruited into the Dora Milage and eventually becoming the Interim Black Panther until a member of the Royal family suited to be a monarch came of age. (It is implied but not stated that the Wakandan Herb caused her to be permanently bonded to the symbiote.)

Naturally, Ngozi was happy to be able to walk again.

A woman by the name of Jazmine Joyer rote and article that stated that Ngozi and her origin story are ableist, depicting the inability to walk as an inherently bad thing that needs to be fixed, but...

I don't see it. I do not see how depicting a teenager who was upset over losing her ability to walk in a freak accident being happy that she was given the ability to walk again is ableist and is making a statement about anything but that one character's opinion. The comic never implies that being disabled makes you less, only that this one character isn't happy about it but is in turn happy to no longer need special accommodations to deal with it.

Having read the article and Ngozi's origin story, I can see where the woman is coming from, but I don't see it.

Side note, I really like Ngozi's design.https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/d/d8/Black_Panther_Long_Live_The_King_Vol_1_6_Textless. jpg/revision/latest?cb=20200414101933

From what I know, I don't think that "it's just extra" is inherently invalidating prosthetics. From what I know of Yang, it's in character for her to think of her arm as less part of her body and more a tool, something above and beyond herself that makes up for shortcomings caused by her injury... Especially since her prosthetic is also a gun.

I can also see Penny, who was self-conscious about being a robot in her first appearances, enjoying being able to feel a sensation as a flesh and blood person.

But, I can also understand why Zodi is seeing the ableist themes there. Especially since the emphasis is placed on Ironwood's new prosthetic as symbolic of his willingness to cast aside his humanity to defeat Salem what with his only needing it because he maimed himself to secure a victory over an enemy.


Very well said, but I think something also needs to be said regarding Penny.

She was concerned about her being a robot in season 2. And then they resolved that by having a discussion about how Ruby can tell she has a soul and they hugged and it was good.

Penny, when we next meet her in season SEVEN, has embraced herself. She's fine with being a robot. There is nothing TO FIX. By presenting it like there is, they are saying that she shouldn't be happy being a robot. This, coupled with Ironwood's presentation and Yang's saying "it's just extra parts" are what make it ablest.

Ultimately, it is going to be different for everyone. You don't have to see it my way. But you can at least see WHY I see it that way, and understand how being presented with "boy it sure sucks being disabled, glad I got a super power or divine intervention taht fixed this" could be taken negatively, especially by kids who ARE disabled, and thus have to live with it. They deserve better representation than this.

[Rawhide]

Ah, okay, a reference I don't get.

Anyway, you at least see where I'm coming from right? That the implication is there, that Penny was inferior, or wrong, or "incomplete" in a way because she lacked a human body, and her getting it fixed all that, and how that feels pretty negative to people with prosthetics, yeah?

I understand what you're trying to say, but I disagree that the implication is there. In fact, I think they've managed to flip the entire "When I grow up, I want to be a real boy!" on its head and make the transition not about being in any way inferior.

There are things you simply cannot do with prosthetics, and no amount of wishful thinking will ever change that, just like there are some things you cannot do with flesh and bone. Her experiences are going to be different to her experiences in the mechanical body. Some things will be better, some things will... definitely not be, but they are all going to be new. Heck, she might even prefer her new human body overall, but it still doesn't mean she wasn't human before or was any less human for having a mechanical body, nor does it imply that.

P.S. Let's imagine for a moment that Penny's entire desire from the very beginning was to have a completely flesh and bone human body (it wasn't, but let's run with it). How many people with prosthetics due to do you know if, given the choice, would choose to keep the prosthetics over completely (re)growing their limb(s) in a fully functional state? Even if they're completely, 100% happy with their prosthetics, most would choose to (re)grow their limb(s) if given the option. Now, if someone was given that option and takes it, were they any less human before they (re)grew their limb(s)? Does having a desire to have their limb(s)/limb(s) back mean they thought of themselves as less human? We're already seeing people use modern laser surgery to remove prosthetics (well, glasses). Are you implying that they were less human for previously needing a device to correct their vision but wanting to get rid of it?

[LaZodiac]

I understand what you're trying to say, but I disagree that the implication is there. In fact, I think they've managed to flip the entire "When I grow up, I want to be a real boy!" on its head and make the transition not about being in any way inferior.

There are things you simply cannot do with prosthetics, and no amount of wishful thinking will ever change that, just like there are some things you cannot do with flesh and bone. Her experiences are going to be different to her experiences in the mechanical body. Some things will be better, some things will... definitely not be, but they are all going to be new. Heck, she might even prefer her new human body overall, but it still doesn't mean she wasn't human before or was any less human for having a mechanical body, nor does it imply that.

P.S. Let's imagine for a moment that Penny's entire desire from the very beginning was to have a completely flesh and bone human body (it wasn't, but let's run with it). How many people with prosthetics due to do you know if, given the choice, would choose to keep the prosthetics over completely (re)growing their limb(s) in a fully functional state? Even if they're completely, 100% happy with their prosthetics, most would choose to (re)grow their limb(s) if given the option. Now, if someone was given that option and takes it, were they any less human before they (re)grew their limb(s)? Does having a desire to have their limb(s)/limb(s) back mean they thought of themselves as less human? We're already seeing people use modern laser surgery to remove prosthetics (well, glasses). Are you implying that they were less human for previously needing a device to correct their vision but wanting to get rid of it?

The implication is there, and they've flipped nothing so far. They directly showed us that it's superior because it makes her more human. Penny being human was never in doubt, but the explicit text of the scene is that Penny can now feel things, which is an improvement. Now, there is a chance that next episode will actually do something with this; showing Penny getting fatigued cause that's a thing now, or dealing with things like Food, but... I don't actually have faith in RT's ability to write this.

Regarding the question of disabled people getting "their limbs back"; literally no disabled person I know would want that. The mentality that most WOULD take that offer is ablest. And no, of course not, having a desire to regain your limbs doesn't make you less human, the IDEA that you NEED your limbs back IS. How have you missed this? This question makes no sense and has nothing to do with the conversation. The issue is that the show IS saying "Penny not having a real body made her less human", not that simply wanting a real body is dehumanizing. It is VERY likely that if someone who has prosthetics and wants to replace them with real human limbs again feels like they're less human, and it's because of **** LIKE THIS!

I really do not understand this last paragraph of yours, honestly. I did my best to answer it. I don't get why you're framing things as if I'm the one implying they're "less human" for wanting to fix their eyes, because I'm not. I'm absolutely on the side of the opposite; you don't need this **** to be human. I have glasses, and I would never get corrective surgery. Partly because having glasses is normalized as "oh it's just a natural part of you, it is fine".

Prosthetic limbs are NOT normalized like that, and THAT is the problem here. RWBY is coming from a position, intentional or not, that says prosthetic limbs shouldn't be normalized. That they're not a part of you, but something that clearly has to be fixed. Because it's not "real", it's just "extra parts". And that sickens me.

Look, Rawhide. I'm a trans woman. When the time comes my body is going to be surgically altered to fit me. I'm coming from a place that understands this ****. To try and put things in perspective for you, this would be like a trans woman saying their surgical changes don't make them a real woman. This is what this feels like to me.

[Rawhide]

The implication is there, and they've flipped nothing so far. They directly showed us that it's superior because it makes her more human. Penny being human was never in doubt, but the explicit text of the scene is that Penny can now feel things, which is an improvement. Now, there is a chance that next episode will actually do something with this; showing Penny getting fatigued cause that's a thing now, or dealing with things like Food, but... I don't actually have faith in RT's ability to write this.

Regarding the question of disabled people getting "their limbs back"; literally no disabled person I know would want that. The mentality that most WOULD take that offer is ablest. And no, of course not, having a desire to regain your limbs doesn't make you less human, the IDEA that you NEED your limbs back IS. How have you missed this? This question makes no sense and has nothing to do with the conversation. The issue is that the show IS saying "Penny not having a real body made her less human", not that simply wanting a real body is dehumanizing. It is VERY likely that if someone who has prosthetics and wants to replace them with real human limbs again feels like they're less human, and it's because of **** LIKE THIS!

I really do not understand this last paragraph of yours, honestly. I did my best to answer it. I don't get why you're framing things as if I'm the one implying they're "less human" for wanting to fix their eyes, because I'm not. I'm absolutely on the side of the opposite; you don't need this **** to be human. I have glasses, and I would never get corrective surgery. Partly because having glasses is normalized as "oh it's just a natural part of you, it is fine".

Prosthetic limbs are NOT normalized like that, and THAT is the problem here. RWBY is coming from a position, intentional or not, that says prosthetic limbs shouldn't be normalized. That they're not a part of you, but something that clearly has to be fixed. Because it's not "real", it's just "extra parts". And that sickens me.

Look, Rawhide. I'm a trans woman. When the time comes my body is going to be surgically altered to fit me. I'm coming from a place that understands this ****. To try and put things in perspective for you, this would be like a trans woman saying their surgical changes don't make them a real woman. This is what this feels like to me.

No, the implication is not there, and they have done nothing of the sort.

Literally every disabled person I know would take up the offer if they could. I included the glasses example specifically because people already do. People who had glasses their entire lives received laser eye surgery so they don't have to use glasses anymore. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that wouldn't, they feel better about themselves because of their prosthetics. Heck, there are definitely people out there that want to replace their fully functional limbs with cybertechnology (that doesn't exist yet). But it doesn't change the fact that these people I know, despite being happy as they are, would rather be able to walk than need a wheelchair if that was an option to them, for example.

The show does not in any way imply that you NEED your limbs back. In fact, as already mentioned, Yang took a journey from feeling less for not having her limb to realising she was still everything she was before.

I'm framing it that way because that's exactly what you're saying. You're saying that anyone who wants a part of them changed thinks of themselves as less human.

"When the time comes my body is going to be surgically altered to fit me."
Are you saying that you are less of a woman now because you haven't had surgery yet? I don't believe that's your intent, but the implication is there.

"this would be like a trans woman saying their surgical changes don't make them a real woman."
No, what you're saying is like saying that a trans woman isn't a real woman because they haven't had surgery. Can you see how insulting this is to people with prosthetics who would ditch them if they could?

[Rater202]

The implication is there, and they've flipped nothing so far. They directly showed us that it's superior because it makes her more human. Penny being human was never in doubt, but the explicit text of the scene is that Penny can now feel things, which is an improvement. Now, there is a chance that next episode will actually do something with this; showing Penny getting fatigued cause that's a thing now, or dealing with things like Food, but... I don't actually have faith in RT's ability to write this.

Regarding the question of disabled people getting "their limbs back"; literally no disabled person I know would want that. The mentality that most WOULD take that offer is ablest. And no, of course not, having a desire to regain your limbs doesn't make you less human, the IDEA that you NEED your limbs back IS. How have you missed this? This question makes no sense and has nothing to do with the conversation. The issue is that the show IS saying "Penny not having a real body made her less human", not that simply wanting a real body is dehumanizing. It is VERY likely that if someone who has prosthetics and wants to replace them with real human limbs again feels like they're less human, and it's because of **** LIKE THIS!

I really do not understand this last paragraph of yours, honestly. I did my best to answer it. I don't get why you're framing things as if I'm the one implying they're "less human" for wanting to fix their eyes, because I'm not. I'm absolutely on the side of the opposite; you don't need this **** to be human. I have glasses, and I would never get corrective surgery. Partly because having glasses is normalized as "oh it's just a natural part of you, it is fine".

Prosthetic limbs are NOT normalized like that, and THAT is the problem here. RWBY is coming from a position, intentional or not, that says prosthetic limbs shouldn't be normalized. That they're not a part of you, but something that clearly has to be fixed. Because it's not "real", it's just "extra parts". And that sickens me.

Look, Rawhide. I'm a trans woman. When the time comes my body is going to be surgically altered to fit me. I'm coming from a place that understands this ****. To try and put things in perspective for you, this would be like a trans woman saying their surgical changes don't make them a real woman. This is what this feels like to me.
I'm a bit confused.

Aren't transwomen already real women? I thought the surgery was just to make the outside match the inside. The inside is the important part and...

...And I think I understand your position on this better now.

[LaZodiac]

No, the implication is not there, and they have done nothing of the sort.

Literally every disabled person I know would take up the offer if they could. I included the glasses example specifically because people already do. People who had glasses their entire lives received laser eye surgery so they don't have to use glasses anymore. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that wouldn't, they feel better about themselves because of their prosthetics. Heck, there are definitely people out there that want to replace their fully functional limbs with cybertechnology (that doesn't exist yet). But it doesn't change the fact that these people I know, despite being happy as they are, would rather be able to walk than need a wheelchair if that was an option to them, for example.

The show does not in any way imply that you NEED your limbs back. In fact, as already mentioned, Yang took a journey from feeling less for not having her limb to realising she was still everything she was before.

I'm framing it that way because that's exactly what you're saying. You're saying that anyone who wants a part of them changed thinks of themselves as less human.

"When the time comes my body is going to be surgically altered to fit me."
Are you saying that you are less of a woman now because you haven't had surgery yet? I don't believe that's your intent, but the implication is there.

"this would be like a trans woman saying their surgical changes don't make them a real woman."
No, what you're saying is like saying that a trans woman isn't a real woman because they haven't had surgery. Can you see how insulting this is to people with prosthetics who would ditch them if they could?

The implication is there.

Be that as it may, the point I'm making is that they ARE NOT less human for being disabled. I am NOT saying otherwise, stop assuming I am.

"I'm framing it that way because that's exactly what you're saying. You're saying that anyone who wants a part of them changed thinks of themselves as less human."
This right here? This is inflammatory! I'm not saying that at all! And I'm not implying I'm less of a woman because I haven't had surgery yet, I'm saying that OTHER PEOPLE DO THINK THAT. I DO NOT! And don't try to police me, or get me in a 'gotcha' about ****ing Trans people Rawhide. I would never, and DID NOT, say that you NEED surgery.

I have not ever said that people who wish to replace their prosthetics with flesh and blood are less human. I cannot begin to see how you saw this. Everyone deserves the right to feel comfortable in their own bodies. If a disabled person wants to "fix" themselves, they can go ahead and do so. They do not NEED to though, and the mentality of "I need to fix my disabled bits" is ****ing heinous and should be removed. No one needs to conform to society's ****ed up standards of beauty and "humanness".

At this point it is clear we're never going to be able to have a civil conversation about this because it is too personal for me, {Scrubbed}, so I'm going to drop this conversation. {Scrubbed}


I'm a bit confused.

Aren't transwomen already real women? I thought the surgery was just to make the outside match the inside. The inside is the important part and...

...And I think I understand your position on this better now.

Yes, that's correct, Rater. But other people would disagree, and dysphoria is a real thing, as well as feeling like you're "not real". Because stuff like being trans isn't normalized, there's still media and people who depict it as bad, and so on. I wish I could live in a world where no one had to feel inadequate or "fake" because of societal pressure, but that's just not how the world is right now. The inside, the soul to use RWBY's terminology, IS important. But it can be important without also diminishing the fact that some people's outsides won't ever match the human standard.

This is why I'm kind of incensed about this. RT has a big fanbase, they need to be better about this stuff. Saying an artificial arm is "just extra" is dehumanizing to someone who has a prosthetic arm. No one needs to conform to the body standard, and it is genuinely disgusting to me that they've, intentionally or not, presented that "actually they should be. Can't you see how happy Penny is now that she can feel. It'd be better if no one had lost body parts."

This, by the way, is why I've tried to stay clear of RWBY in a personal capacity.

[Rawhide]

The implication is there.

Be that as it may, the point I'm making is that they ARE NOT less human for being disabled. I am NOT saying otherwise, stop assuming I am.

"I'm framing it that way because that's exactly what you're saying. You're saying that anyone who wants a part of them changed thinks of themselves as less human."
This right here? This is inflammatory! I'm not saying that at all! And I'm not implying I'm less of a woman because I haven't had surgery yet, I'm saying that OTHER PEOPLE DO THINK THAT. I DO NOT! And don't try to police me, or get me in a 'gotcha' about ****ing Trans people Rawhide. I would never, and DID NOT, say that you NEED surgery.

I have not ever said that people who wish to replace their prosthetics with flesh and blood are less human. I cannot begin to see how you saw this. Everyone deserves the right to feel comfortable in their own bodies. If a disabled person wants to "fix" themselves, they can go ahead and do so. They do not NEED to though, and the mentality of "I need to fix my disabled bits" is ****ing heinous and should be removed. No one needs to conform to society's ****ed up standards of beauty and "humanness".

At this point it is clear we're never going to be able to have a civil conversation about this because it is too personal for me, and you refuse to actually understand what I'm saying, so I'm going to drop this conversation. All I ask is, and I mean this with utter sincerity, please learn critical thinking skills.

Yes, that's exactly what you're saying. I know you don't mean to, I know you're not any less of a woman, but the way you've framed your argument here implies that any person who wants to change themselves is less of a person until they do.

If a trans woman wants to have surgery, does that mean she is any less of a woman how she is now?
If someone with glasses wants to have laser eye surgery so they don't need glasses, does that make them any less of a human how they are now?
If a person with prosthetics wants to replace a lost limb wants to have that limb back, does that many them any less of a human how they are now?
If a person who requires a wheelchair wants to be able to walk, does that make them any less of a human how they are now?
If a person who is blind wants to be able to see, does that make them any less of a human how they are now?
If a person who is deaf wants to be able to hear, does that make them any less of a human how they are now?
If a person with an entirely mechanical body wants to have a flesh and bone body, does that make them any less human how they are now?

Obviously, the answer to all of those is no, these people are definitely not in any way less.

Having something about you that you want to change, does not mean you're any less of a human (or woman, as per the first example) for having that aspect you want to change. Nor does enjoying your change mean that you were any less beforehand.

When you have your surgery, will you be any more woman than you are now? I'm pretty sure that the answer will be "No, I'm already a woman, but I'll feel better about myself".

You are a woman, I'm definitely not going to say (or even think - to be clear on the wording) otherwise, and I'm certainly not going to "tone police" you regarding it. This isn't some "gotcha moment", you are the one who brought up trans as an analogy, I'm just correcting that analogy. But what you're saying now is that you cannot have a story where someone wants to change some part of themselves, because that means the story is somehow implying that they are less of a human until they have changed it.

[LaZodiac]

Yes, that's exactly what you're saying. I know you don't mean to, I know you're not any less of a woman, but the way you've framed your argument here implies that any person who wants to change themselves is less of a person until they do.

If a trans woman wants to have surgery, does that mean she is any less of a woman how she is now?
If someone with glasses wants to have laser eye surgery so they don't need glasses, does that make them any less of a human how they are now?
If a person with prosthetics wants to replace a lost limb wants to have that limb back, does that many them any less of a human how they are now?
If a person who requires a wheelchair wants to be able to walk, does that make them any less of a human how they are now?
If a person who is blind wants to be able to see, does that make them any less of a human how they are now?
If a person who is deaf wants to be able to hear, does that make them any less of a human how they are now?
If a person with an entirely mechanical body wants to have a flesh and bone body, does that make them any less human how they are now?

Obviously, the answer to all of those is no, these people are definitely not in any way less.

Having something about you that you want to change, does not mean you're any less of a human (or woman, as per the first example) for having that aspect you want to change. Nor does enjoying your change mean that you were any less beforehand.

When you have your surgery, will you be any more woman than you are now? I'm pretty sure that the answer will be "No, I'm already a woman, but I'll feel better about myself".

You are a woman, I'm definitely not going to say (or even think - to be clear on the wording) otherwise, and I'm certainly not going to "tone police" you regarding it. This isn't some "gotcha moment", you are the one who brought up trans, I'm just correcting the analogy. But what you're saying now is that you cannot have a story where someone wants to change some part of themselves, because that means the story is somehow implying that they are less of a human until they have changed it.


That's not what I'm saying.

You can absolutely have stories where people want to change things about themselves. But it has to be executed well, and you need to be cautious because you will run into things like what we've been discussing for the last three pages. We'll get people who feel, rightly justified, that the writing is saying that they're less human for having disabilities. That their only solution is to hope a magical wizard artifact gives them a "real" body. That until they get that, they're not complete. This is what the show has done, and if you can read poor implications into my angry posts, you can read it into the show.

But whatever. This is the last thing I'm saying about this. I have better things to do.

[Rawhide]

That's not what I'm saying.

You can absolutely have stories where people want to change things about themselves. But it has to be executed well, and you need to be cautious because you will run into things like what we've been discussing for the last three pages. We'll get people who feel, rightly justified, that the writing is saying that they're less human for having disabilities. That their only solution is to hope a magical wizard artifact gives them a "real" body. That until they get that, they're not complete. This is what the show has done, and if you can read poor implications into my angry posts, you can read it into the show.

But whatever. This is the last thing I'm saying about this. I have better things to do.

I see no such implication from the show, I've watched this episode multiple times now and it's pretty clear that it is doing the exact opposite. Especially so given Yang's story arc regarding her arm.

There is definitely, 100% no intended implication that people are in any way less for having prosthetics, nor do I see any such unintended implication.

[Ramza00]

This is why there is a distinction between the words Less and Fewer. Some things can be counted, others things can not be counted.

Likewise the difference between less and fewer is also used differently when we are talking about individual items and collective nouns.

—————

We as humans should not use the word less when talking about another person’s humanity, nor human experiences. We as humans have other language words for descriptors.

This is not being pedantic, and I myself as a dyslexic struggle with language issues all the time. Finding the right words can be hard, and sometimes they just come out in a way that I did not mean. Yet it is important to find the right language for language literally changes individual experiences, and how two people (or more) interact with one another :smallsmile:

[Rawhide]

This is why there is a distinction between the words Less and Fewer. Some things can be counted, others things can not be counted.

Likewise the difference between less and fewer is also used differently when we are talking about individual items and collective nouns.

—————

We as humans should not use the word less when talking about another person’s humanity, nor human experiences. We as humans have other language words for descriptors.

This is not being pedantic, and I myself as a dyslexic struggle with language issues all the time. Finding the right words can be hard, and sometimes they just come out in a way that I did not mean. Yet it is important to find the right language for language literally changes individual experiences, and how two people (or more) interact with one another :smallsmile:

Except, that there is no such distinction (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIFT14W0xSU).