Best shapechanges forms

[Mrark]

So, shapechange is the subject. I see everyone talking about how broken it is, but I can’t see why. I mean, the HD limit is problematic. What is the big deal? What forms are actually good? I’m not here for all the ridicoulous stuff, but being a 9th lvl spell I have high standards. So, what the best forms are?

[Hellpyre]

Zodar, for immunity to non-bludgeoning damage and (Su) wishes. At 16 HD, it will be available if you can cast Shapechange.

[Biggus]

There's also the Chronotyryn, which gives you two full sets of actions every round.

[Covenant12]

Dire tortoise is fairly broken in the going first to win rocket tag, depending on how you read it. If you have foresight it may not matter much, but for a druid it's a godsend.

Remember changing forms is a free action once a round, So Dire Tortoise - win surprise round -> Chronotyryn.

[Zaq]

You don’t have to pick before you need it, either. Whatever challenge you’re up against, there’s usually a form that negates some major aspect of it. Even if you never use that form again, it still made a major difference in THAT encounter.

[False God]

Shapechange up-front looks like a spell that was intended to turn a squishy caster into a big fat combat monster.

But it's power comes not from stealing big meaty bodies to protect yourself with, but stealing cool SU abilities that let you laugh the encounters silly.

[NNescio]

Dire tortoise is fairly broken in the going first to win rocket tag, depending on how you read it. If you have foresight it may not matter much, but for a druid it's a godsend.

If you have Shapechange, you have access to at-will Foresight via Elemental Weird.

Though Dire Tortoise is still useful for Rocket Tag, since it guarantees you a surprise round. But a Foresight'd caster can replicate this (albeit with an even cheesier method) by having a blind and deaf Familiar/Animal Companion or some other blind/deaf ally that technically counts as a combatant, so...

[Elves]

Remember changing forms is a free action once a round,

This is the part that really gets me, like what were they thinking. If you had to choose one form when you cast it and stay in it, that could be seen as good but balanced if you squint. But allowing you to use the abilities of hundreds of monsters over the course of a single spell? What on Earth?

[StreamOfTheSky]

This is the part that really gets me, like what were they thinking. If you had to choose one form when you cast it and stay in it, that could be seen as good but balanced if you squint. But allowing you to use the abilities of hundreds of monsters over the course of a single spell? What on Earth?

I think that's fine, makes it basically a huge utility spell. I'd be more concerned w/ banning / avoiding using the forms with really overpowered Su abilities.

Anyway, I made a thread about Shapechange to "enjoy it responsibly", if it helps at all:
http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=3022.0

Was for a 99% core-only game, though. Anyway, I had fun w/ it. I prioritized using it to still be a blasty or support type character and not to try and take over the Fighter's job, and typically the attacks were like mid level spells, except spammable and ignoring SR (the last bit being probably the biggest irritant the DM had, in a game w/ no orb spells or Reserve feats :smallsmile:)

[MisterKaws]

If you have Shapechange, you have access to at-will Foresight via Elemental Weird.

Though Dire Tortoise is still useful for Rocket Tag, since it guarantees you a surprise round. But a Foresight'd caster can replicate this (albeit with an even cheesier method) by having a blind and deaf Familiar/Animal Companion or some other blind/deaf ally that technically counts as a combatant, so...

The familiar would be better used sharing the Shapechange goodness, though, and I doubt a party member would want to be blind and deaf.

[NNescio]

The familiar would be better used sharing the Shapechange goodness, though, and I doubt a party member would want to be blind and deaf.

Planar Bind something then. Or train a bunch of pet critters that will 'participate' in combat... somehow.

Though I suppose the more expedient way is to have the familiar SS'd into a Dire Tortoise. It gets a surprise round, and you get to roll Init too if you have Foresight since you can't be surprised, so...

[Endarire]

Stay awhile and read (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?517934-The-3-5-Shapechange-Handbook).