Whip Master

[Trandir]

How would you build a PC that uses only a whip?

In 5e I've seen no support for this weapon not even in the UA.
I guess a kensei monk could do fairly well with it but nothing else comes to mind.

[Sparky McDibben]

Work with your DM to homebrew a feat (or use one you found on here). Otherwise... not any real point from an optimization view.

[JellyPooga]

I had absolute blast playing a Barbarian/Rogue with a Whip&Shield.

- Rage bonus damage mitigated the low damage die
- Sneak Attack did its thing as normal
- Cunning Action allowed me to get where I needed to be, when I needed to be there.
- Reach made me a royal pain in the backside for anyone trying to get past me.
- So did Sentinel
- And Uncanny Dodge.

The whip was the obvious choice for the build, which was intended as a tank/wall style character. Yes, a polearm with PAM might have been better for pure/more reliable damage output, but being able to wield a shield and have reach and be able to use sneak attack (including off turn) made for a formidable obstacle to pass. Especially adding Fast Hands from the Thief archetype to manipulate terrain to narrow lines of movement and funnel opponents into myself, where Rage resistance to damage plus Uncanny Dodge made me inanely durable.

[Sparky McDibben]

Rage applies only to Strength attacks, so I don't think those stack with Sneak Attacks.

[Grognerd]

Rage applies only to Strength attacks, so I don't think those stack with Sneak Attacks.

Sneak Attack has to be performed with a Finesse Weapon, but you don't have to use Dex for a Finesse Weapon. You can still choose to attack with Strength since it's a melee attack. So as long as Strength was used as the associated attribute for the Sneak Attack, I think this is a legit stack.

[JakOfAllTirades]

How would you build a PC that uses only a whip?

In 5e I've seen no support for this weapon not even in the UA.
I guess a kensei monk could do fairly well with it but nothing else comes to mind.

AFB but the first thing that comes to mind is Battle Master. I'd look at the maneuvers and see if any benefit from extra reach. This is similar in execution to a polearm BM, but Dex based.

Which is awesome.

One thousand curses be upon auto-complete!

[nickl_2000]

I was thinking battle master 3 or 5/ scout rogue X.

Sneak attack makes up for the lesser damage, you can do maneuvers from a distance and scout to keep you from being pinned down. Should be a solid build.

[Garresh]

If you don't mind picking up the feat Spell Sniper, you can have an incredibly fun time using Booming Blade. A good start is to run Rogue. You make single whip strikes for sneak attack, and the thunder crack of a whip on strike just fits so well thematically. Booming Blade makes you able to keep distance as well. If you wanted, you could go 3 levels into fighter and grab some combat tricks from battlemaster.

[Sparky McDibben]

Sneak Attack has to be performed with a Finesse Weapon, but you don't have to use Dex for a Finesse Weapon. You can still choose to attack with Strength since it's a melee attack. So as long as Strength was used as the associated attribute for the Sneak Attack, I think this is a legit stack.

Aha! Then, as the French would say, "Dope." :)

[CheddarChampion]

Sneak Attack and Booming Blade are good, as has been mentioned.
How about combining them?

High Elf Inquisitive Rogue 19/Fighter 1
8/17/14/12/12/12 (or something)
Take BB or GFB from the high elf cantrip
Spell Sniper at level 4 - (take the other SCAG cantrip?)
Elven Accuracy (+1 Dex) at level 8
Dex+2 at level 10

Inquisitive lets you designate a target for Sneak Attack with a bonus action.
Spell Sniper to hit with a SCAG cantrip at 10' range.
At level 19 you have 1d4+5+12d6+3d8, that's 63 damage on average with no resources spent.
OTOH if you miss your one attack, 0 damage.
You could also do a V. Human for the dual wielder feat and make a standard TWF Rogue.

[Temperjoke]

Wasn't there an old UA that had a feat intended for whip users? If I recall it wasn't terribly unbalanced.

[Dork_Forge]

Sneak Attack and maneuvers as others have said raise the damage and versatility of the whip, Monk (at least 5) would raise the base attack die and Dueling would let you add a flat +2. If you're allowed current UA and other materials than both the Blood Hunter and Artificer can excel with a whip as well.

[CTurbo]

I've done the Whip + Spell Sniper + Booming Blade thing and it really is great, but when I think "Whip Master" it has to be Battle Master all the way. The maneuvers are as close as you're going to get outside of homebrews to any kind of weapon "Master" build. Being able to trip, disarm, distract, intimidate, etc with a whip is awesome. I'd want as many attacks as possible as opposed to the one single Booming Blade attack. Dueling Fighting Style would be great or even the TWF/Dual Wielder combo would work well too.

Bonus points for being a Bugbear too for the 15ft reach attacks.

[Assenzio]

Kensai monks can choose whip as monk weapons and replace the awful 1d4 with their martial arts dice, if you like the monkish flavour.

[Mutsuhat]

I want to do a whip master to , but my idea was to go for hexblade with two level of path of the grave, it feel hilarious to deal insane damage with a 1d4 + a lot of **** x)

[sophontteks]

As a one-handed reach and finesse weapon the whip is already good. (possibly underappreciated.)

For 5e, maneuvers related to a whip are cooked into contested attacks. Shoving and grappling are just two examples of contested rolls, showing how the mechanics work. If you want to trip someone with your whip, it works the same. Same with pulling someone towards you.

The other aspect of a whip, using it to pull yourself up and such, works much the same and would likely require an athletics check.

All in all optimizing a whip looks, to me, to be the same as making a grappler build. High strength and expertise in athletics.

[stoutstien]

As a one-handed reach and finesse weapon the whip is already good. (possibly underappreciated.)

For 5e, maneuvers related to a whip are cooked into contested attacks. Shoving and grappling are just two examples of contested rolls, showing how the mechanics work. If you want to trip someone with your whip, it works the same. Same with pulling someone towards you.

The other aspect of a whip, using it to pull yourself up and such, works much the same and would likely require an athletics check.

All in all optimizing a whip looks, to me, to be the same as making a grappler build. High strength and expertise in athletics.

No? I mean I'd allow most of it because it sounds cool but in no way is is RAW or RAI.
The reach property of weapons on apply when you attack with it and shove is a special attack that doesn't call out using the weapon or unarmed strike. Could see this one going either way.

Shoving is limited to prone or 5ft away so the pulling an enemy closer is flat out a houserule.

Grapple clearly calls out that you must use a free hand so grappling with a whip is also a houserule.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

No? I mean I'd allow most of it because it sounds cool but in no way is is RAW or RAI.
The reach property of weapons on apply when you attack with it and shove is a special attack that doesn't call out using the weapon or unarmed strike. Could see this one going either way.

Shoving is limited to prone or 5ft away so the pulling an enemy closer is flat out a houserule.

Grapple clearly calls out that you must use a free hand so grappling with a whip is also a houserule.
There is a variant rule for shoving in different directions.



Shove Aside
With this option, a creature uses the special shove attack from the Player’s Handbook to force a target to the side, rather than away. The attacker has disadvantage on its Strength (Athletics) check when it does so. If that check is successful, the attacker moves the target 5 feet to a different space within its reach.

If have the word reach in the end so reach is relevant.

If closer to you is in your reach you can move him closer with this variant rule.

[stoutstien]

There is a variant rule for shoving in different directions.




If have the word reach in the end so reach is relevant.

If closer to you is in your reach you can move him closer with this variant rule.

The problem is that the shoving rules are literally special attacks that don't use a weapon so reach is irrelevant. The reach is only used when attacks are made with said weapon.

As for the shove aside rules say well...aside. it's not a problem if shoving is limited to 5 ft to begin with.(other than bugbear shenanigans)
the idea of shoving towards self is also just counterintuitive.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

The problem is that the shoving rules are literally special attacks that don't use a weapon so reach is irrelevant. The reach is only used when attacks are made with said weapon.

As for the shove aside rules say well...aside. it's not a problem if shoving is limited to 5 ft to begin with.(other than bugbear shenanigans)
the idea of shoving towards self is also just counterintuitive.

It is like lighting lure and thorn whip and grasp of hadar.

It has it use.
And a bugbear is probably the way to have reach if you rule no weapon.

But even then, is there a problem with allowing fluff and saying it was the whip not the hand?

[stoutstien]

It is like lighting lure and thorn whip and grasp of hadar.

It has it use.
And a bugbear is probably the way to have reach if you rule no weapon.

But even then, is there a problem with allowing fluff and saying it was the whip not the hand?

No, which is why I said I'd be ok with it but it would be a houserule and the player needs to know that so if they are at another table they are aware.

Openhand bugbear monk would be a fun one for huge area control.

Also be careful with grapple bugbear. The 10ft reach only last for the turn so grapple would auto break if they end turn that far away.

[sophontteks]

No? I mean I'd allow most of it because it sounds cool but in no way is is RAW or RAI.
The reach property of weapons on apply when you attack with it and shove is a special attack that doesn't call out using the weapon or unarmed strike. Could see this one going either way.

Shoving is limited to prone or 5ft away so the pulling an enemy closer is flat out a houserule.

Grapple clearly calls out that you must use a free hand so grappling with a whip is also a houserule.
The special attack section states that pushing and shoving are examples of contested actions that the DM can use to help them improvise. This isn't 3.5 where everything a player does is supposed to have its own specific rule, though my sympathies do go to league players who don't really get to enjoy that kind of stuff.

I mean if the RAW state that this is the groundwork for the DM to improvise, then improvising is RAW.

My general idea with 5e is that players are supposed to be creative with this kind of stuff and the book just gives the DM the guidelines for how to handle it. The contested attacks work well for this.

[Hytheter]

I think whip Kensei is kind of meh since many of its class and archetype features require you to be in punching range. If you're close enough to punch then the whip is wasted, and if you aren't then your class features are wasted instead.

Besides, the issue of only having a d4 damage dice is overstated IMO. It's only 1 point of difference to a d6, which isn't much compared to what you're probably getting from other sources. You'll forget the difference shortly once you're throwing sneak attacks or maneuvers on top. Hell, a pure Kensei doesn't break even with Duelling style until level 11. Of course you can multiclass it, but I'd say you're much better off taking Fighter all the way for manoeuvres and extra attacks, or rogue for sneak attack, than trying to slowly ratchet up the whip's base die.

And frankly, maneuvres are just perfect for the concept. Wanna get your whip around an enemy's ankle and pull them down? Trip Attack. Wanna pull the weapon out of their hands? Disarming Attack. Wanna use the crack of the whip to intimidate, attract attention, or distract? Menacing, Goading, Distracting.

[stoutstien]

The special attack section states that pushing and shoving are examples of contested actions that the DM can use to help them improvise. This isn't 3.5 where everything a player does is supposed to have its own specific rule, though my sympathies do go to league players who don't really get to enjoy that kind of stuff.

I mean if the RAW state that this is the groundwork for the DM to improvise, then improvising is RAW.

My general idea with 5e is that players are supposed to be creative with this kind of stuff and the book just gives the DM the guidelines for how to handle it. The contested attacks work well for this.

I think we are talking about two different ideas. Using an action to do any of the ideas you stated is supported by the rules but replacing an attack from the attack action have more solid boundaries due to action economy balance and such.

Saying that I do think weapons could have used with more special tags to give them some depth. Whips having a grapple tag as an alternative attack option could be done fairly easily but then you have to think about attacking the whip itself like nets. It can be done but not without considering the whole impact

[Floogal]

Surprised no one has mentioned Dex-Paladin, wielding whip + shield. Smite with your holy whip! Or whips, if you take the Dual Wielder feat.

Or, be a strength-Paladin in heavy armour, smiting with your whip in one hand, throwing daggers, handaxes, and holy water with your other. You're Simon from Castlevania!

[Trandir]

Surprised no one has mentioned Dex-Paladin, wielding whip + shield. Smite with your holy whip! Or whips, if you take the Dual Wielder feat.

Or, be a strength-Paladin in heavy armour, smiting with your whip in one hand, throwing daggers, handaxes, and holy water with your other. You're Simon from Castlevania!

I like this, maybe with 4 levels in fighter for maneuvers, second fighting style, action surge and tha ASI

[Hytheter]

If you're feeling Paladin, I'd say to go Conquest. A nasty-looking whip definitely suits a tyrant's aesthetic, and Aura of Conquest will lock frightened enemies in place right within whipping range. Menacing Attack complements it well too if you go with some Fighter levels.

As a side note, Paladin spells let you qualify for Spell Sniper, which you can take to pick up Booming Blade if you are so inclined. It's not as appealing for someone with extra attack, though.

[Klorox]

I think an arcane trickster with a bladesinger dip would do the most damage, but a whip master needs some battle master maneuvers.

Maybe fighter 3 or 5 and the rest arcane trickster?

You need booming blade and spell sniper.

[SpacemanSpif]

Tempest cleric with a 2-level paladin dip seems fairly optimal for a Booming Blade Spell Sniper build.

Your channel divinity can max the damage dice added by Booming Blade and Divine Strike, Wrath of the Storm + Thunderous Strike can knock back attackers after the first hit to further eat their movement (or avoid attacks of opportunity), and two levels of Paladin gives you a fighting style and smites to let you use your cleric spell slots while cantripping for most of your actions. And you never invest in a second attack that gets wasted when you Booming Blade.

Take V-human for the first level feat and start as Cleric, and it allows you to start from level 1.

[da newt]

With Bugbear as an option for 10' reach with any weapon, or the much better range of thrown daggers, I think the whip is inferior mechanically, but cool thematically.

Bugbear w/ rapier is +2 damage over anyone w/ whip. A pile of thrown daggers = a whip except with twice the range.


It's too bad the whip's reach doesn't increase your OA range - that would be a nice bump for usefulness. (I'd think it would be reasonable to house rule PAM OA rules for a whip if you take the PAM feat.)

[Hytheter]

With Bugbear as an option for 10' reach with any weapon, or the much better range of thrown daggers, I think the whip is inferior mechanically, but cool thematically.

Bugbear w/ rapier is +2 damage over anyone w/ whip. A pile of thrown daggers = a whip except with twice the range.

Being a bugbear is only effective if you actually want to be a bugbear. Plenty of races have features that my well be more appealing than +2 damage.

Thrown daggers won't benefit from things that affect melee attacks (e.g. Duelling style, Divine Smites) and is unsustainable if you have multiple attacks since you can't draw new daggers as fast as you can throw them.