[3.5] Batch Spell

[Thurbane]

IIRC, way back when I was playing the text based CRPG Bard's Tale, there was a spell called Batch Spell, that would put up a number of lower level buffs on the party when cast (many, many moons ago, may be mis-remembering some details).

What's the closest way to approximate this in 3.5 (no PF please)?

Arcane Fusion? Contingency? Spell Matrix?

I'd like to be able to pop off a number of low(ish) level buffs as a standard action.



Don't want to rely on consumables if possible, so Rod of Many Wands isn't ideal; also no minionmancy please - I'd like a character that can do this outright.

Cheers - T

[Saintheart]

Scholar's Touch applied to a book that contains one or more permanent runes inscribed on the pages of the book. Or any spell set up as a simple magic trap. My Runecaster handbook describes the costs, check the "Sample Builds and Sample Rune Items" post, look up ""Fun With Jack and Jane", a first reading book for War Hulks".

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Spell Matrix (or similar) + the War Weaver prestige class (Heroes of Battle) should handle this perfectly, letting you cast multiple spells at once onto the entire party.

[ExLibrisMortis]

The best way to do this is by taking levels in War Weaver. Quiescent Weaving is exactly what you want.

Time stop and temporal acceleration with Chain Spell will let you buff many targets in one (apparent) action.

The spell matrix line of spells (SC) is pretty crappy, in my opinion. I wouldn't use them; you're better off using the celerity line, contingency, arcane spellsurge, and time stop.

The Simbul's spell matrix line of spells (MoF), on the other hand, is good, and you can use the sequencer and trigger to do a quick buff sequence, though they must be very low-level spells (2nds and 4ths, respectively--keep in mind these are a 7th- and a 9th-level spell, respectively). The Spell Compendium revision really did a number on these spells...

[Biggus]

Craft Contingent Spell would do it. It's expensive and time-consuming to set up though.

[TheCount]

psionic tattooes?
i mean, if you can do magic items by others suplying the spells...... though it would need the magic-psionic transparency rule
you could also make a costum item that applies them...

Also if psionics, Schism is a 4th level telepath power, giving you double actions....too bad psionics are mostly self buffers

[zlefin]

on a related note; I seem to recall spell-creation guidelines that say what level to make a spell that's combining multiple other spells, but I can't find them. Anyone know what/where they are?


was cleaning recently and looked at my bard's tale manual, batch spell was nice. greater levitation, ybarra's mystical coat of arms, the compass spell, the light spell, and uh, something else as well I think.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Arcane fusion and its lesser variant + Sanctum Spell.

Now (lesser) arcane fusion can be used to cast itself, so feel free to chain several together along with as many low level buffs as you feel like.

It's self-only (because psionics), but psionics is great at action economy boosters, so feel free to double, triple, quadruple, or more the number of powers you can manifest in a round, and use those for buffage. If you're a cerebremancer/mind mage, feel free to use your arcane buffs on others, as well.

[Asmotherion]

IIRC, way back when I was playing the text based CRPG Bard's Tale, there was a spell called Batch Spell, that would put up a number of lower level buffs on the party when cast (many, many moons ago, may be mis-remembering some details).

What's the closest way to approximate this in 3.5 (no PF please)?

Arcane Fusion? Contingency? Spell Matrix?

I'd like to be able to pop off a number of low(ish) level buffs as a standard action.



Don't want to rely on consumables if possible, so Rod of Many Wands isn't ideal; also no minionmancy please - I'd like a character that can do this outright.

Cheers - T

All of the above.

Also
-Persistant Time Stop (use alternate methode of choice (incantatrix/node metamagic etc).
-Archmage (to get your touch buffs be considered as ranged touch and thus qualify for chain spell).
-Summon (or call) a bunsh of creatures that can cast a buff sequance.
-Shapechange into the right creature. A Nagahydra or Chronotyrin using their actions to cast Arcane Fusion wile under Arcane Spellsurge can probably buff the party prety well in one turn.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Taking the Multitasking feat and having multiple arms? Polymorph or wild shape into a creature with numerous arms to give it a major boost.

Is there a similar feat that allows you to Multitask with multiple heads? Because hydras are a thing.

[Anthrowhale]

Arcane fusion and its lesser variant + Sanctum Spell.
This doesn't actually work.



Another approach is via Shapechange into a Spellweaver (Monster Manual II) which allows you to cast 6 levels of spells (i.e. 6 1st, 3 2nd, or a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd). Spellweaving is an extraordinary special ability---I don't know of another way to actually acquire it.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

This doesn't actually work. Arcane fusion allows you to cast one 1st level spell and one 4th level spell.

The level of arcane fusion cast outside of your sanctum is 4th.

Where's the issue with it?

[Thurbane]

Infinite loops, reliance on summons, shape-changing or otherwise altering your actions per round and psionics are interesting, but not ideal for my table.

So far [multi-spell type spell] + War Weaver is seeming like a good option for my use.

[Anthrowhale]

Arcane fusion allows you to cast one 1st level spell and one 4th level spell.

The level of arcane fusion cast outside of your sanctum is 4th.

Where's the issue with it?
Arcane Fusion uses the adjusted slot level so Sanctum Arcane Fusion requires a 5th level (=spell level 5 + 0 metamagic adjust) slot making it ineligible.

If applying a metamagic feat to a spell, use the adjusted spell level and casting time for purposes of determining eligibility for arcane fusion.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Arcane Fusion uses the adjusted slot level so Sanctum Arcane Fusion requires a 5th level (=spell level 5 + 0 metamagic adjust) slot making it ineligible.Err...

Except the adjusted spell level is 4, meaning it works just fine.

[Tvtyrant]

Shalanth's Delicate Disk makes what are basically potions of up to fifth level spells, but can store area effects or touch effects. Having a bunch of small constructs break disks at the first round of combat can cover the party in buffs.

[Anthrowhale]

Err...

Except the adjusted spell level is 4, meaning it works just fine.

Does Arcane Fusion refer to the spell slot level? Or the spell level of the cast spell? If you believe the latter, then another 4th level spell is a Searing Energy Admixture[Fire] Empowered Maximized Orb of Fire. This is clearly not right---in context, it clearly refers to the spell slot level.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Does Arcane Fusion refer to the spell slot level? Or the spell level of the cast spell? If you believe the latter, then another 4th level spell is a Searing Energy Admixture[Fire] Empowered Maximized Orb of Fire. This is clearly not right---in context, it clearly refers to the spell slot level.The only time it refers to the slot level as opposed to spell level is the adjusted metamagic level, which specifies the adjusted level of the spell slot. It really does work by RAW.

[Anthrowhale]

The only time it refers to the slot level as opposed to spell level is the adjusted metamagic level, which specifies the adjusted level of the spell slot.

Given this, I don't know where the disagreement comes from, as the logic seems inevitable. Which step in this chain breaks for you?


From the above it sounds like you agree that this:

If applying a metamagic feat to a spell, use the adjusted spell level ... for purposes of determining eligibility for arcane fusion. refers to the adjusted metamagic level.
Arcane Fusion is a 5th level spell.
Sanctum Spell is a +0 metamagic.
Sanctum Arcane Fusion has an "adjusted spell level" (=adjusted metamagic level) of 5 = 5+0.
Sanctum Arcane Fusion is ineligible according to
When you cast this spell, choose any 4th-level or lower sorcerer spell you know.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Given this, I don't know where the disagreement comes from, as the logic seems inevitable. Which step in this chain breaks for you?


From the above it sounds like you agree that this:
refers to the adjusted metamagic level.
Arcane Fusion is a 5th level spell.
Sanctum Spell is a +0 metamagic.
Sanctum Arcane Fusion has an "adjusted spell level" (=adjusted metamagic level) of 5 = 5+0.
Sanctum Arcane Fusion is ineligible according to
When adjusted, a Sanctum spell counts as one level lower (basically, a reverse Heighten). As such, it's a 4th level spell when cast outside your sanctum, even though it's cast from a 5th level slot.

So it's 5-1=4.

[Thurbane]

Just to add to the derail, there seems to be three terms in play here:


Spell Level
Adjusted Spell Level
Effective Spell Level

As far as I can tell, the only one that is a defined game term is Spell Level: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_spelllevel&alpha=S


spell level
A number from 0 to 9 that indicates the general power of a spell.

For my 2 coppers: RAI - no way. RAW - maybe (?). Whoever designed Sanctum Spell needs to have a long, hard look at themselves in a Mirror of Opposition. :smalltongue:

[ExLibrisMortis]

When adjusted, a Sanctum spell counts as one level lower (basically, a reverse Heighten). As such, it's a 4th level spell when cast outside your sanctum, even though it's cast from a 5th level slot.

So it's 5-1=4.
Anthrowhale is saying that "effective spell level" (as referred to in the Sanctum Spell feat) and "adjusted spell level" (as referred to in the arcane fusion description) aren't the same thing, and don't have the same value. The first is the effective level for the purpose of save DCs, globes of invulnerability, and so on, while the second is the level of the spell slot required to cast the spell. So, for example, you could cast an Eldritch Corruption-Heightened orb of fire as part of arcane fusion (since it requires a 4th-level slot, though it counts as a 6th when cast), but not a Sanctum cone of cold (since it requires a 5th-level slot, though it counts as a 4th when cast). For my part, I agree with Anthrowhale.

[Anthrowhale]

...

...
That's helpful (and apologies for the thread derail).

Maybe a table adds to the clarity.



Searing Energy Admixture[Fire] Maximized Empowered Orb of fire
Sanctum Arcane Fusion
Eldritch Corruption Heightened Orb or Fire


Spell Level (formally defined)
4
5
6


Effective Spell Level (Sanctum Spell description)
4
4
6


Adjusted Spell Level (Arcane Fusion description)
14
5
4


Eligible for Arcane Fusion
No
No
Yes


You must pick some definition of 'level' to test eligibility for Arcane Fusion. The only choice which could possibly work for Sanctum Arcane Fusion is 'effective spell level', which makes the crazy-metamagic orb of fire also eligible. If you don't believe the crazy-metamagic orb of fire is eligible, you should not believe that the Sanctum Arcane Fusion is eligible. The eligibility of Eldritch Corruption Orb of Fire is a consequence of using the 3rd definition of level.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

The best way to do this is by taking levels in War Weaver. Quiescent Weaving is exactly what you want.

Time stop and temporal acceleration with Chain Spell will let you buff many targets in one (apparent) action.

The spell matrix line of spells (SC) is pretty crappy, in my opinion. I wouldn't use them; you're better off using the celerity line, contingency, arcane spellsurge, and time stop.

The Simbul's spell matrix line of spells (MoF), on the other hand, is good, and you can use the sequencer and trigger to do a quick buff sequence, though they must be very low-level spells (2nds and 4ths, respectively--keep in mind these are a 7th- and a 9th-level spell, respectively). The Spell Compendium revision really did a number on these spells...

To note, War Weaver is only good for up to 5th level spells (6th, assuming your table is fine with you slapping Sanctum Spell on those spells and then using those). If your table allows, you could extend the levels beyond the limit with Legacy Champion, but that requires that (1) you're cool with Legacy Champion extending PrCs beyond their (non-epic) limits and (2) you make a couple assumptions about extending a 5-level long PrC beyond that limit at all.

On this line of thinking, Spellguard of Silverymoon from Player's Guide to Faerun can turn some select "Self Only" spells into Touch Range spells. Wizard 3/WW 5/Spellguard 4 dovetails nicely, using Sanctum Spell to qualify for both.