After using caltrops or ball bearings, do you get to keep the bag?

[Greywander]

Also, is it a regular pouch or what?

I bought a pouch specifically to hold sling bullets (the capacity of a pouch is 80 bullets, in case you were wondering). This got me thinking about the bags that ball bearings and caltrops come in.

[Slipperychicken]

What's the alternative, the bag vanishes into thin air when emptied?

This isn't a video game, you're supposed to use your brain a little. If you drink all the water in a flask, the flask still exists. If you fire every arrow in a quiver, you still have the quiver. If you eat every egg in a basket, the basket is still there.

I'd rule that you're left with a bag equivalent to a "pouch" (0.5gp, 1lb, 6lb capacity). If you just want to refill a pouch with a pound of ball-bearings/caltrops you can get it for 0.5gp, and the shopkeep will throw in a free apprehensive glare, courtesy of a GM who really doesn't want to deal with this level of minutia.

EDIT: I'd be fine with overfilling a pouch with 80 sling bullets (assuming they're kept on a belt or something), but if you stuff a pouch to bursting with 6 pounds of ball-bearings, then I'd rule disadvantage on any attempt to throw the whole thing, and a separate action if you just want to dump 1lb at a time. I'd also note that tying 7lb of weight (6lb capacity + 1lb pouch) to a single point on the body, as opposed to distributing it with a purse or backpack, would be bad for balance, in case you need to make a check on it.

[Greywander]

I kind of assumed that arrows/sling bullets are bought separately from quivers and pouches, but that ball bearings and caltrops seem to come with their own bag. I just thought it was a little weird.

Also I just noticed that in the pouch description it says it only fits 20 sling bullets. Hmm...

[noob]

So if 20 round spheres costs as much as 25 chickens should I start covering the ground with chickens instead of round spheres?

[ProsecutorGodot]

So if 20 round spheres costs as much as 25 chickens should I start covering the ground with chickens instead of round spheres?

You might attract some unwanted attention. However, if your goal is to attract attention then by all means, strap the party barbarian head to toe in chickens and cut him loose.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

You might attract some unwanted attention. However, if your goal is to attract attention then by all means, strap the party barbarian head to toe in chickens and cut him loose.

Absolutely terrifing.
I will give everyone else in the fight a wisdom check VS fear.

When the chickens man run around cutting everyone up is the sing for the end of the world.

[Greywander]

So if 20 round spheres costs as much as 25 chickens should I start covering the ground with chickens instead of round spheres?
I just noticed how much cheaper chickens are compared to rations, and I'd bet a single chicken would probably last two or three days. Of course, you'd have to take care of the chickens in the mean time. Maybe play as some kind of chicken herder?

For bonus points, play a forest gnome and then command the chickens as a feathery army. No matter how weak they are, the action economy is in your favor.

[Throne12]

Now I got to play the crazy chicken man. You seen the crazy cat lady. Well now you'll see the crazy chicken man.

The build: The Flock
Class: Bard & Warlock
Race: v-human feat: Inspiring leader
Pick the spell animal friendship and speak with animals. Then take 3 levels of warlock take pact of the chain pick the hell chicken as familiar also take the spell flock of familiar to have 3 hell chickens. Take warlock to level 9 to get new invocation chain master's fury and Investment of the Chain Master.

Thanks I got my new character for the up coming campaign.

Edit if I take the invocation I can cast speak with animal's at will.

[Chauncymancer]

I just noticed how much cheaper chickens are compared to rations, and I'd bet a single chicken would probably last two or three days.
A weird nod at realism, as the expensive part of making a chicken into dinner is butchering the chicken, and that kind of inconvenient and slimy work will be glossed over in a single sentence of narration.

[Crgaston]

I just noticed how much cheaper chickens are compared to rations, and I'd bet a single chicken would probably last two or three days. Of course, you'd have to take care of the chickens in the mean time. Maybe play as some kind of chicken herder?

For bonus points, play a forest gnome and then command the chickens as a feathery army. No matter how weak they are, the action economy is in your favor.

Realistically, a human adventurer would probably need 2-4 or more chickens a day to avoid caloric deficit, assuming they're walking for 8+ hours, carrying gear, and fighting.

[Imbalance]

I'm now picturing what kind of litter adventurers leave behind. That's not a Walmart bag flapping in the wind; it's a discarded bearing pouch.

I have a scar on my cheek from childhood to prove how formidable chickens can be to small humanoids.

Weaponized chickens will be fed ball bearings. When ready to use, feed them a potion of alche-seltzer, then toss at enemy. Cruel, but effective.

Chicken armor would be little use for protecting the wearer beyond the cloud of obscuring feathers that would be generated. Half cover?

Since armed chickens would be useless (too chicken to attack), a chicken familiar might be the optimal use. Most are ignored until it's time for dinner, and a great deal of gossip is shared over the preparation of fowl. Plus, imagine the distraction one could create after casting shocking grasp on the cook and fleeing through the dining room. The entire castle would be thrown into disarray.

[Throne12]

I'm now picturing what kind of litter adventurers leave behind. That's not a Walmart bag flapping in the wind; it's a discarded bearing pouch.

I have a scar on my cheek from childhood to prove how formidable chickens can be to small humanoids.

Weaponized chickens will be fed ball bearings. When ready to use, feed them a potion of alche-seltzer, then toss at enemy. Cruel, but effective.

Chicken armor would be little use for protecting the wearer beyond the cloud of obscuring feathers that would be generated. Half cover?

Since armed chickens would be useless (too chicken to attack), a chicken familiar might be the optimal use. Most are ignored until it's time for dinner, and a great deal of gossip is shared over the preparation of fowl. Plus, imagine the distraction one could create after casting shocking grasp on the cook and fleeing through the dining room. The entire castle would be thrown into disarray.

Haha this is great I so want to play my chicken keeper character now.

[Dessunri]

What's the alternative, the bag vanishes into thin air when emptied?

This isn't a video game, you're supposed to use your brain a little. If you drink all the water in a flask, the flask still exists. If you fire every arrow in a quiver, you still have the quiver. If you eat every egg in a basket, the basket is still there.

I'd rule that you're left with a bag equivalent to a "pouch" (0.5gp, 1lb, 6lb capacity). If you just want to refill a pouch with a pound of ball-bearings/caltrops you can get it for 0.5gp, and the shopkeep will throw in a free apprehensive glare, courtesy of a GM who really doesn't want to deal with this level of minutia.

EDIT: I'd be fine with overfilling a pouch with 80 sling bullets (assuming they're kept on a belt or something), but if you stuff a pouch to bursting with 6 pounds of ball-bearings, then I'd rule disadvantage on any attempt to throw the whole thing, and a separate action if you just want to dump 1lb at a time. I'd also note that tying 7lb of weight (6lb capacity + 1lb pouch) to a single point on the body, as opposed to distributing it with a purse or backpack, would be bad for balance, in case you need to make a check on it.

Emphasis mine:
A simple "at my table..." response would have been sufficient. Instead you insinuate that the OP isn't using their brain and very dismissive during the rest of your comment. Maybe OPs campaign is one where they all (including the DM) enjoy this level of "minutia" as you put it.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

I just noticed how much cheaper chickens are compared to rations, and I'd bet a single chicken would probably last two or three days. Of course, you'd have to take care of the chickens in the mean time. Maybe play as some kind of chicken herder?

Well, sure. The chicken hasn't been cut up, deboned, and preserved. That last one really matters because if you're hauling around a dead chicken at room temperature it goes bad fast. And if you're hauling around a live one, that adds all kinds of complications.

I imagine that, pound for pound, live chickens are cheaper than chicken meat at a supermarket in reality, too, but I'm not buying chickens to meet my dietary needs.

[Yunru]

Well, sure. The chicken hasn't been cut up, deboned, and preserved. That last one really matters because if you're hauling around a dead chicken at room temperature it goes bad fast. And if you're hauling around a live one, that adds all kinds of complications.

I imagine that, pound for pound, live chickens are cheaper than chicken meat at a supermarket in reality, too, but I'm not buying chickens to meet my dietary needs.

Yeah, chickens make terrible dieticians.

[Telok]

What's old is new.

Back in the days of AD&D, some almost 30 years ago, I recall overhearing a cunning plan involving some hundreds of chickens, lots of razor blades and poison, along with an over-reliance on natural 1s and 20s. Apparently some godling or demon lord wasn't immune to poison.

I wonder if they ever pulled it off.

[Brookshw]

What's old is new.

Back in the days of AD&D, some almost 30 years ago, I recall overhearing a cunning plan involving some hundreds of chickens, lots of razor blades and poison, along with an over-reliance on natural 1s and 20s. Apparently some godling or demon lord wasn't immune to poison.

I wonder if they ever pulled it off.

Agreed, farm animals have long been a staple of D&D survival strategies. My favorite story was driving a herd of cattle through Tomb of Horrors.

Edit: typo

[Slipperychicken]

I just noticed how much cheaper chickens are compared to rations, and I'd bet a single chicken would probably last two or three days. Of course, you'd have to take care of the chickens in the mean time. Maybe play as some kind of chicken herder?

Rations are processed/finished goods, handmade, portable, and they keep for a month.

Live chickens need to be fed, transported, and are really... special animals. Ships might carry livestock for fresh meat, which is certainly a nice break from porridge, hardtack, and salty meat. Chickens are also nice and cuddly, which may help morale somewhat.

[cZak]

Agreed, farm animals have long been a staple of D&D survival strategies. My favorite story was driving a heard of cattle through Tomb of Horrors.

This mental image has me chuckling long after I type this reply...

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Anyway, I think I should answer a relevant answer.

It will break the immersion if you will not keep the bag.

An it is totally reasonable for an adventurer to carry a lot of bags(I will say 20-50 depends of the adventurer pisical build) on different belts and armour straps(similar to how military vest work).

[Greywander]

Anyway, I think I should answer a relevant answer.

It will break the immersion if you will not keep the bag.

An it is totally reasonable for an adventurer to carry a lot of bags(I will say 20-50 depends of the adventurer pisical build) on different belts and armour straps(similar to how military vest work).
Yeah, this got pretty far sidetracked.

I think mostly I just wasn't sure if it was the same type of bag as a pouch. Also, as I mentioned in my second post, it seems like pouches/quivers are bought separately from sling bullets and arrows, but for some reason the ball bearings and caltrops come with their own bag. This further encouraged the idea that the bag was somehow "part" of the same item, and thus would be "used up" in a sort of video-game-esque way. Of course it doesn't just disappear, but perhaps it's assumed you discard it as it has no further use.

This also gets me wondering if it might be possible to recover and reuse caltrops or ball bearings. It might be a bit tricky to gather up all 1000 ball bearings, but there are only 20 caltrops in a bag. Presumably it would also depend on the conditions; dropping them on a polished marble floor inside a mansion will probably be easier to find them than if you drop them into the undergrowth of a forest. If you had a bag of either ball bearings or caltrops that wasn't full, I'd imagine it would simply lower the DC and otherwise the item would still work normally.

As for 20-50 bags, I'm having a hard time imagining where you put all of them. If they're empty, they can just go in another bag. But if they're all full, then where are you strapping them onto? Sacks are larger than pouches, and so seem more useful if you need to move large loads such as treasure. But pouches seem more like containers for specific or single-use items, generally things you bring with you than things you find, so I'd imagine you'd have less of a need for empty pouches.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

First, there is no such thing as to much bags/puches for an adventurer. You need to optimize your carrying capacity. Use 8 belts, two the regular way an 4 going from the shoulders to the hips. Also use the straps of the armour. It is easier to move when the weight is distributed all over your body (but not the knees).


Second, if you want to get the caltrops back be ready to dig into someone foot. It should be a big mess, more then recovering a thrown dagger but not at the level of recovering a thrown javelin.


I am talking about reason and flavor, not mechanics.

[Greywander]

Right. If you're trying to get all the ball bearings or caltrops back, one would expect to have to spend some time doing so. We could either follow the same rule as ammunition, and just say that if you take the time (say, 10 minutes) then you can recover half of the used caltrops/ball bearings. Alternatively, you could make a Perception check, at disadvantage if there's anything like undergrowth, with the result determining how many you find. Say, 30 means you get everything back, 10 means nothing, so if you roll, say, a 17 then you'd find 7 caltrops or 140 ball bearings. Something like that.

Hmm, maybe this might make more sense: every search is about 10 minutes (too long? 1 minute?), and you can search multiple times to recover more (if you have the time). Make a Perception check, at disadvantage if dark or in the undergrowth. DC 5 to find one quarter of the remaining caltrops/ball bearings. DC 10 to find half the remaining ones. DC 20 to find three quarters of them. And DC 30 to find them all.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Right. If you're trying to get all the ball bearings or caltrops back, one would expect to have to spend some time doing so. We could either follow the same rule as ammunition, and just say that if you take the time (say, 10 minutes) then you can recover half of the used caltrops/ball bearings. Alternatively, you could make a Perception check, at disadvantage if there's anything like undergrowth, with the result determining how many you find. Say, 30 means you get everything back, 10 means nothing, so if you roll, say, a 17 then you'd find 7 caltrops or 140 ball bearings. Something like that.

Hmm, maybe this might make more sense: every search is about 10 minutes (too long? 1 minute?), and you can search multiple times to recover more (if you have the time). Make a Perception check, at disadvantage if dark or in the undergrowth. DC 5 to find one quarter of the remaining caltrops/ball bearings. DC 10 to find half the remaining ones. DC 20 to find three quarters of them. And DC 30 to find them all.
I can see them all as reasonable options, depends on the table/campaign.

There are also situations where you will have an auto success(like a wizard summons a lot of unseen servants to recover the items) or auto fail(like some oozes or a rust monster or super hot flames).

As long as it look good in your table you are set.

[Lunali]

I kind of assumed that arrows/sling bullets are bought separately from quivers and pouches, but that ball bearings and caltrops seem to come with their own bag. I just thought it was a little weird.

Also I just noticed that in the pouch description it says it only fits 20 sling bullets. Hmm...

Sling bullets should probably come with a pouch, but for arrows people will generally have their own quiver that fits them well. When you consider that arrows are much easier than the rest to bundle with string, its no surprise that they don't come with quivers.

[sambojin]

Just remember that you can merge things into wildshape, or choose not to. It's not so much whether or not ball bearings come with their own pouch, it's that you then need to transfer them into an easily breakable flask so you can pinata a batch of them out of you every time you change form.

This can work as a chicken delivery system as well. Well, for the tradegood, unstatted, not-really-a-creature chickens at least. Grab, say, 16 chickens, wildshape into a mastiff or something, and your chicken swarm is now safely contained within wildspace and people only see an innocent looking doggy walking around. At the appropriate moment, unwildshape, letting go of the chickens, yelling "Cluck you all!" at the amazed bystanders. Sure to get a laugh every time.

By all means, do it with barrels full of chickens, ball bearings, caltrops and alchemist's fire flasks if you want. Instant BBQ feast surprise :)

(if you wonder how the druidic faith survives, it's because they're the best smugglers, and the best practical jokers as well)

[Mutazoia]

I'm now picturing what kind of litter adventurers leave behind. That's not a Walmart bag flapping in the wind; it's a discarded bearing pouch.

They really should be putting all those monster corpses into the proper composting bin, instead of just leaving them lying around.


What's old is new.

Back in the days of AD&D, some almost 30 years ago, I recall overhearing a cunning plan involving some hundreds of chickens, lots of razor blades and poison, along with an over-reliance on natural 1s and 20s. Apparently some godling or demon lord wasn't immune to poison.

I wonder if they ever pulled it off.

If I recall correctly, there was a thread on this forum about using a few thousand chickens to take down a Tarrasque.