UA Ranger Revised VS New Class Feature Variant

[Drache64]

New Ranger Class Feature Variant: https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/UA_ClassFeatures.pdf

VS

Ranger Revised: https://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA_RevisedRanger.pdf

I am helping my wife with her character, and our DM has ruled she can use either option.

It seems like The Ranger revised is stronger than the new updates.

Natural Explorer is Replaced with a seemingly very weak replacement in Deft Explorer
(Advantage on every Initiative Check as well as Advantage on turn 1 against things that haven't moved vs Extra languages OR gaining a climbing speed, OR 1d10 temp HP)

Favored Enemy vs Favored Foe: Favored enemy on ALL humanoids vs Free Hunters Mark WIS MOD times per day.

The Enhanced spellcasting is nice, but not sure it is worth all the other trades.

What do you guys think?

[Dork_Forge]

New Ranger Class Feature Variant: https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/UA_ClassFeatures.pdf

VS

Ranger Revised: https://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA_RevisedRanger.pdf

I am helping my wife with her character, and our DM has ruled she can use either option.

It seems like The Ranger revised is stronger than the new updates.

Natural Explorer is Replaced with a seemingly very weak replacement in Deft Explorer
(Advantage on every Initiative Check as well as Advantage on turn 1 against things that haven't moved vs Extra languages OR gaining a climbing speed, OR 1d10 temp HP)

Favored Enemy vs Favored Foe: Favored enemy on ALL humanoids vs Free Hunters Mark WIS MOD times per day.

The Enhanced spellcasting is nice, but not sure it is worth all the other trades.

What do you guys think?

Just some clarification, it's 1d10+Wis and you can do it number of times per day equal to your Wis mod, that is a pretty substantial hp buff over the course of a day. You also don't really pick between the three options, you just pick the order in which you acquire them.

Being able to cast Hunters Mark with Favored Foe not only gives you a lot more casting per day (assuming HM is the go to damage buff), but it's concentration free. So no chance of losing that extra damage and it opens up using other concentration spells at the same time.

Advantage on initiative is nice but to make the most out of advantage vs lower initiative you'd need to be Dex based (and ideally a Gloomstalker).

In my opinion the new option is more appealing, with Favored Foe being less situational and DM dependent. Though if she wants to play a Gloomstalker the initiative and first turn synergy with Dread Ambusher is so powerful it'd be hard to resist.

[jaappleton]

Revised Ranger is stronger offensively.

Updated Ranger is better with utility and exploration. And.... possibly defensively? Not 100% positive on the defensive aspect.

I personally like the Updated Ranger just a little more, as an overall package.

But I also admit that I am fairly biased toward whatever is going to be implemented into D&D Beyond; that character builder has absolutely spoiled me.

[GlenSmash!]

Revised Ranger is stronger offensively.

Updated Ranger is better with utility and exploration. And.... possibly defensively? Not 100% positive on the defensive aspect.

I personally like the Updated Ranger just a little more, as an overall package.

But I also admit that I am fairly biased toward whatever is going to be implemented into D&D Beyond; that character builder has absolutely spoiled me.

On any race that can start with 16+ Wisdom getting 1d10+3 THP 3 times a day is pretty great defensively especially at level 1 (that's what an average of 27 THP a day?). It's definitely the option I'd take first.

And I agree about D&D Beyond.

[Kane0]

Alternate Feature Ranger is better balanced with Xan’s subclasses than Revised Ranger is.

[Sindal]

Well, I've been playing the revised ranger for a while.

I personally still asked ans then switched to updated. The TLDR is that updated gets my personal vote. See below.

The revised ranger is certainly strong and if it was only phb and it, I would advocate to it without question. But the updated ranger gives you more natural ability to attack 'problems' in general.

The revised ranger still has "I hope this shows up" problems. I didnt use my favoured enemy at all until lvl 5 cause I picked Fey. That's my bad for picking an uncommon enemy type but at the same time, a class choice shouldn't depend on the dm to make relevant.

Natural explorer gave me advantage on the first turn of combat and...that's it. The other features weren't really that important. If they were, our dm never told me they were doing stuff haha.

Primeval aware was similarly useless (to me) for most of my campaign.

The updated ranger's are alot more applicable to general situations. You lose the instant difficult terrain ignore (but you get it later again) and first turn advantage on people who haven't moved. Ans instead get

-Canny letd you buckle down on survival to nature to deal with most exploration situations. Two extra languages are very neat (revised will give you the language too mind you)

-Rover is just beautiful. It sells that "I go where I want to go" feeling . Up that mountain? In that lake? No problem

-tireless let's you buckle down on being more resilient if you want to frontline more. It's nice that theres still 'a' combat related help in the choices.

Onto foes. Recise ranger will either shine or pale depending on your campaign. It can shine pretty hard ao it's not to be trifled with.

The updated version, which is free hunters mark and no concentration required. Is a very natural all round combat buff.
- it won't clash with your other ranger spells like hail od thorns so you can use them together
- it lessens your spell slot tax, which let's you use your slots for more utility or more combat.

You will always. ALWAYS be using this feature. Compared to favoured that you will use 'sometimes'. To.great effect, but still sometimes.

Primal morphs is either detect your favoured whenever you want. Or you get a bunch of neat utility spells to help you look for 'anything'. Lvl3 you learn detect magic and beast speak. If theres beasts around you could ask them what they've seen and detect magic never hurts. At lvl 5 you get beast sense, which you can combine with your beast speak to possibly get a scout. You also get locate animal and plant, which half functions thr same way primeval awareness works anyway.

Overall, I like updated more. Its more "useable" in ways I can interact with and will likely feel more organic to a new player.

[GorogIrongut]

Throwing my two pennies into the New Class Feature Variant. Especially as any DM I've played with has never allowed a ranger to blanket pick Humanoids as their favoured enemy. You always had to pick what kind of humanoid you hated (dwarves, elves, greenskins, etc.) Blanket humanoid was too broad of a selection and would obviously trump any other possible selection.

[chunderbunny]

Personally I would take the UA ranger for spell versatility alone. Being able to prepare Locate Object or Animal Friendship when needed sounds amazing.

[Dungeon-noob]

New Ranger Class Feature Variant: https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/UA_ClassFeatures.pdf

VS

Ranger Revised: https://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA_RevisedRanger.pdf

I am helping my wife with her character, and our DM has ruled she can use either option.

It seems like The Ranger revised is stronger than the new updates.

Natural Explorer is Replaced with a seemingly very weak replacement in Deft Explorer
(Advantage on every Initiative Check as well as Advantage on turn 1 against things that haven't moved vs Extra languages OR gaining a climbing speed, OR 1d10 temp HP)

Favored Enemy vs Favored Foe: Favored enemy on ALL humanoids vs Free Hunters Mark WIS MOD times per day.

The Enhanced spellcasting is nice, but not sure it is worth all the other trades.

What do you guys think?
Bit of a nitpick, but if you pick humanoids for favored enemy, you have to specify which ones; human, elves, goblins, etc. If you want more humanoids, pick the option again and specify again. Would be kind of broken otherwise. So would that change your assessment?

[Trandir]

Bit of a nitpick, but if you pick humanoids for favored enemy, you have to specify which ones; human, elves, goblins, etc. If you want more humanoids, pick the option again and specify again. Would be kind of broken otherwise. So would that change your assessment?


Naaaaa. That's the base ranger that everybody makes fun of.
Revised ranger is racist to all humanoids

[Dungeon-noob]

Naaaaa. That's the base ranger that everybody makes fun of.
Revised ranger is racist to all humanoids
On a reread, RAW you're completely right. I thought there'd be a note in the UA about it. RAI i think it still works as before, but i can't tell. Guess my note off then, carry on.

[Warlush]

A little new a little newer. Use the revised ranger Beast Conclave with the new UA unarmed fighting style. Grapple, do damage, your animal does damage, profit.

[paladinn]

I'm not a Beastmaster fan, so I can't really speak to that. But having Hunter's Mark as basically a class feature is Huge. Favored Enemy is so situational it's ridiculous. At least the 1e version covered a wide-enough range of enemies that it was useful a lot of the time. The 3x/5e version is way too narrow.

Favored Foe/ Hunter's Mark is now the ranger's "thing", as it should be. This combined with some of the stealth, defensive and multi-attack features now make this viable, IMO. FF is now the ranger's smite.

Kane0 can tell you, I've not had a lot of ranger love in a while. I'm warming up now.

[Ravinsild]

I'm in love with the new UA Variant Features Ranger.

I think that Favored Foe, Deft Explorer and Primal Awareness in addition to the ability to change 1 spell per long rest makes them feel like a nature themed primal class but it also gives them what I think the class fantasy of the Ranger is, which is adaptability and versatility. They are now far better able to adapt to the situation at hand. They feel like the class fantasy of survivor-man or Bear Grills, a wilderness expert that can adapt to ANY situation, instead of being JUST a forest Ranger or mountain Ranger. They can be an expert at surviving in ANY environment, against ANY foe. They feel like elite special forces, trained survivors, and masters of their craft able to be flexible and change on the fly to meet their circumstances. This feels HUGE for Rangers.

- Expertise in Survival, or Stealth or what-have-you depending on how you want to play it allows for more customizability

- Climbing and/or Swimming speed I feel impacts the exploration part of the game without just hand-waving it. You can climb better than any PC now, or swim, and you can get to where others cannot as easily.

- The ability to just be tough makes for a valuable front line tank as well as unable to get tired, that speaks of natural resilience, I love this.

- The ability to swap a spell per long rest really alleviates some of the Rangers issues and allows them to better adapt and prepare for the day ahead, I love this.



In addition to all of the above the free spells they gave Ranger loosens up what spells they're now able to take. Since Hunter's Mark is baked into Favored Foe you can now more easily pick a flavorful spell, plus Primal Awareness gives a ton of free spells and all of these cast be cast without expending a spell slot a number of times per day, which allows room for different types of spells like support spells, and really helps flavor out the Ranger. I feel before every Ranger basically, essentially, took the same few spells over and over and over.

I think the spells specifically given to Primal Awareness really do what it did anyway but better in some cases and with a more versatile function. I just love it. They really feel like a FIGHTER + DRUID now, which I think is a huge win. I also think it emphasizes the point of Primeval Awareness better, and bakes into the old Favored Foe, that role of the hunter. Able to roleplay gathering information on your quarry, asking animals, plants and other things along the way, and when close enough locate creature. You feel like an unstoppable tracker now between expertise in Survival (should you choose), and all of these spells supported by this class feature. You can really track down your prey like an expert, and I think that really hits on class fantasy, and an expert woodsman. Any old novice cannot escape you as you prowl the wilds and seek to protect nature, or simply as a bounty hunter better able to track your pay day.

I feel like Melee Rangers saw some love here with enhanced tanking ability and even smite spells, the Ranged variants continue to stay strong, and overall things like Entangle and such feel like they have some "trap" spells and features. I think they nailed it. I feel like these additional options (including Fighting Style) really adds a ton of flavor and additional ways to play a Ranger from a hand-axe throwing Half-Orc, to a more druid-like Ranger (the cantrips fighting style feels really cool).

[Bigmouth]

My wife is playing a Revised Ranger (Gloomstalker) in my game. Loving it so far. Last night I broached the subject of switching from revised to the alternate class feature version. She is pretty enthusiastic about the switch.

For my game, revised has been crazy powerful and would have been even more powerful if I or my wife would have remembered all the UA-Revised details.

But we didn't, so even though she's 'revised' we have been using kobolds and monkey-men (a homebrew) as her favored enemies. The bonus to tracking vs them has been useful as the PCs are very determined to fight them rather than the things that I thought the campaign was going to be about. :D The dmg bonus hasn't been a factor because we forgot about it. But She hasn't missed it. In fact she's felt a bit guilty about her damage being too high because of Gloomstalker's extra attack in the first round and then Sharpshooter.

The natural explorer stuff has been game breaking, suspension of disbelief breaking...fairly awful mostly. I am running a wilderness campaign, with a lot of travel, a lot of tracking baddies across the wastelands. Pretty soon it was evident to everyone that the Ranger's travel package was silly and ridiculously overpowered from a world building sense. Crossing a swamp, mountains, difficult rough terrain...all of it the same. No need for roads as long as you've got "magical ranger speed" (as it has been dubbed in my group). The general consensus at my table is that Any competent group of travelers MUST include a ranger. Now I am sure in most games this probably wouldn't be an issue, probably not even noticed, but it definitely has been in my group/current campaign.

Primeval Awareness would have been incredibly useful if uh...we had remembered that she had the whole detect all humanoids within a five mile radius thing. This ability is crazy in a game like mine, but less so in others I'm sure.

So obviously I've not been giving her the full benefit of Revised, but she is looking forward to giving that up to get the spells offered by the new Primeval Awareness and freeing up spell slots that she normally uses on Hunters mark for more fun things.

[djreynolds]

Can someone explain to me how does the new beast feature works?

I want to have a wolf, if she is a beast of the land, she can look like a wolf.... but does she still get pack tactics and trip?

[Dork_Forge]

Can someone explain to me how does the new beast feature works?

I want to have a wolf, if she is a beast of the land, she can look like a wolf.... but does she still get pack tactics and trip?

You can still have an actual wolf, or you can have one of the new spirits and theme it as a wolf. If you take a spirit, it only gains the stats and abilities in the spirit's stat block, so no you owuldn't get Pack Tactics etc.

[djreynolds]

You can still have an actual wolf, or you can have one of the new spirits and theme it as a wolf. If you take a spirit, it only gains the stats and abilities in the spirit's stat block, so no you owuldn't get Pack Tactics etc.

Thanks for the quick reply, but it stinks if this is the case.

The beast of the land get at least proficiency is saves and more HP at last

[Willie the Duck]

The natural explorer stuff has been game breaking, suspension of disbelief breaking...fairly awful mostly. I am running a wilderness campaign, with a lot of travel, a lot of tracking baddies across the wastelands. Pretty soon it was evident to everyone that the Ranger's travel package was silly and ridiculously overpowered from a world building sense. Crossing a swamp, mountains, difficult rough terrain...all of it the same. No need for roads as long as you've got "magical ranger speed" (as it has been dubbed in my group). The general consensus at my table is that Any competent group of travelers MUST include a ranger. Now I am sure in most games this probably wouldn't be an issue, probably not even noticed, but it definitely has been in my group/current campaign.

Primeval Awareness would have been incredibly useful if uh...we had remembered that she had the whole detect all humanoids within a five mile radius thing. This ability is crazy in a game like mine, but less so in others I'm sure.

Primeval Awareness and its monster radar (verisimilitude-breaking and making the DM confirm or deny information they themselves might not have solidly confirmed when pressed being the biggest complaints) seems to be the biggest complaint about Revised Ranger. Eliminating all the interesting parts of wilderness adventure specifically for the class taken by gamers most interested in such things being the second one. Although, to be fair, this can't really all be laid at the Ranger(revised or otherwise)'s feet. The system as a whole doesn't spend a lot of effort making wilderness exploration interesting, and lots of mechanics (from encumbrance being routinely ignored, to spells like Goodberry, Light, Mending and Prestidigitation trivializing what would be challenges in other editions) conspire to make that the case.

[Kane0]

Thanks for the quick reply, but it stinks if this is the case.

The beast of the land get at least proficiency is saves and more HP at last

It has charge instead of pack tactics. And can be commanded as a bonus action. And can be raised with a spell slot. And has darkvision.

[Bigmouth]

Although, to be fair, this can't really all be laid at the Ranger(revised or otherwise)'s feet. The system as a whole doesn't spend a lot of effort making wilderness exploration interesting, and lots of mechanics (from encumbrance being routinely ignored, to spells like Goodberry, Light, Mending and Prestidigitation trivializing what would be challenges in other editions) conspire to make that the case.

Absolutely. I don't lay the core problems with the exploration pillar at the ranger's feet but the revised does highlight them in my particular game. I also suspect that it's something that doesn't bother much of the player base as there is next to nothing to be found out there for improving the situation.

[Bobthewizard]

The variant ranger seems much more magical to me with less innate skills. Here are my thoughts.

1. I love the new favored foe. Hunter's mark should be a class feature and it finally is. It is much better than favored enemy since you can choose when to use it.

2. Revised ranger's natural explorer gives so many fun skills. Even without the broken "group ignores difficult terrain" there's a lot there - advantage on initiative, advantage to attack in first round, ignore difficult terrain, sneak at normal speed, find more food, and better at tracking. Deft explorer just doesn't match up in terms of fun for me. One skill expertise is not worth it, the movement one is cool but seems better for a champion than a ranger, and the bonus THP is the strongest at 1st level but seems pretty boring. So you pick better movement or better combat but then get no exploration benefits.

3. Variant's primal awareness seems better and more fun than primeval awareness. More spells instead of understanding animals and finding your favored enemies. Both are fine with me though.

Can you mix and match? I'd love to play a variant ranger if I could keep the revised's natural explorer. Since I can't do that, my love for natural explorer outweighs the other benefits of the variant, so I'll stick with the revised ranger.

[Yakk]

I don't know which is stronger, but the UA Updated one is better written. And there is a lot to be said to go with better written.

At level 1, +1d6 damage beats +2 damage from FA even if you only attack FA.

At level 2, you can stack HQ and FA. But the free and concentration-free HQ means that you can use your spell slots and concentration for something else.

Variant:
Round 1: HQ, Attack (1d8+1d6+dex)
Round 2: Zephyr Strike, Attack (1d8+1d6+dex+1d8, advantage)
Round 3: Attack (1d8+1d6+dex)
Revised:
Round 1: HQ, Attack (1d8+1d6+dex+2)
Round 2: Attack (1d8+1d6+dex+2)
Round 3: Attack (1d8+1d6+dex+2)

And against non-favored enemies way worse.

Hand xbow can make the Revised more tempting, as the Variant uses more bonus actions. But on the variant ranger, you'd instead have more dex/wis or sharpshooter.

---

I mean, Deft Explore is just yummy fun. Tireless is broken tanky, Roving is broken mobile (run up/down trees and walls during fights!). Canny is expertise, which is nice.

At higher levels, concentration-free HQ just gets better as your alternative choices continue to compete with it. And not risking losing it every time you get hit rocks.

Primal Awareness might be less unique, but the variety of abilities is sure handy. Similarly, Fade Away is going to be used a lot more often than Hide in Plain Sight.

[Kane0]

Can you mix and match? I'd love to play a variant ranger if I could keep the revised's natural explorer.

Theres nothing stopping you, but UA typically isnt made with multiclassing and other UA in mind. Picking the best of both runs serious risk of shenanigans