OOTS #1185 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Cygnia]

Ah, Roy...that hangover will last about two weeks!

[The MunchKING]

Hm... I wonder what they call Helicopter grandparents when helicopters are just some weird Gnomish steampunk thing that hasn't spread anywhere yet. :D

[Peelee]

Reading that just makes me realize how lucky I got on my in-laws. Roughly the same situation, but everyone's happy about it instead.

[Nemoricus]

Drunk Roy is pretty funny. Good of him to bring the mug back, too!

[The MunchKING]

Reading that just makes me realize how lucky I got on my in-laws. Roughly the same situation, but everyone's happy about it instead.

They never let you out of Line of Sight?

[ratfox]

And we're off for the last arc!
Well, last arc of the main story, I guess. Who knows how long the epilogue will be.
I wish Hilgya the best of luck handling her quasi-mother-in-law. :smallbiggrin:

I see that they remember curlyhead vampire. She must have a role to play somewhere, but I really wonder where? It seems to me the Hel arc story is done and over...

[Sc00by]

Drunk Roy is pretty funny. Good of him to bring the mug back, too!

Lawful Good in operation! I liked that :)

[Peelee]

They never let you out of Line of Sight?

They moved in to help us take care of a baby. Child care is crazy expensive, yo. They're fantastic.

[ti'esar]

For some reason I find Totally Hammered Roy* to be side-splittingly hilarious. Maybe it's just the lack of sleep talking.

*Not in the Thor sense of 'hammered'.

...well, not in that Thor sense of 'hammered', anyway.

[Zhorn]

This was nice. Just gives me a big ol' goofy smile all round.

[titan_monarch]

I see that they remember curlyhead vampire. She must have a role to play somewhere, but I really wonder where? It seems to me the Hel arc story is done and over...

I bet the next book somehow ISN'T the last arc. Rich would have resolved the whole world-destruction arc with a decisive No vote rather than leaving it hanging indefinitely if it wasn't going to somehow come back. Probably via something curlyhead does. Our heroes will save the last gate and then - oops, more trouble.

[Quebbster]

We seem to be in position for a dramatic final page reveal soon. Maybe a page or two back aboard the Mechane Before the scene shifts...

[Morquard]

I see that they remember curlyhead vampire. She must have a role to play somewhere, but I really wonder where? It seems to me the Hel arc story is done and over...
Same place that the secret plan to take down Tarquin and his crew will take place.

[Syncrogti]

Love Durkon's mom, and the baby Kudzu is adorable for sure. Hoping for more plot action, is Durkon's comment about the mountain shaking some form of foreshadowing? Nah....

[Turin_19]

It's amazing how many details are in this strip!

Haley taking out her jacket, then shown with it on in the last panel, Roy getting out with the booze, the multiple different views of the room giving it almost a full 3d view and an amazing idea of location on each character!

And hilarious!

Thank you Rich! And congratulations! And thanks again!

[hroþila]

I see that they remember curlyhead vampire. She must have a role to play somewhere, but I really wonder where? It seems to me the Hel arc story is done and over...
I think her most likely role is "Lingering threat that adequately explains why all these moderately powerful dwarves are staying behind." I don't see her playing any significant role beyond that.

[Peelee]

I bet the next book somehow ISN'T the last arc.
Well, it's definitely the last book, so I'm absolutely taking that bet!:smallamused:

Rich would have resolved the whole world-destruction arc with a decisive No vote rather than leaving it hanging indefinitely if it wasn't going to somehow come back.
This may be my most quoted line from The Giant.

I love the certainty expressed here.

[The MunchKING]

I bet the next book somehow ISN'T the last arc.

Well he said the next book was the LAST book, so it's only not going to be the last arc if the book has 2 or more arcs in it.

[Gluteus_Maximus]

I think her most likely role is "Lingering threat that adequately explains why all these moderately powerful dwarves are staying behind." I don't see her playing any significant role beyond that.

Yeah. The two bards are confirmed for Bard 12+, as well, and the fighters are pretty dang strong if they're all on the same level as the guy who fairly easily overcame a Nightcrawler's DR. They'll be fine.

[Reboot]

Love Durkon's mom, and the baby Kudzu is adorable for sure. Hoping for more plot action, is Durkon's comment about the mountain shaking some form of foreshadowing? Nah....

It's a callback to H's plan to plane shift out "if everything starts shaking" (i.e., the world is being destroyed) in #1171 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1171.html). [Which she told Durkon about ten strips later (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1181.html), albeit not in those exact words.]

[hroþila]

I bet the next book somehow ISN'T the last arc. Rich would have resolved the whole world-destruction arc with a decisive No vote rather than leaving it hanging indefinitely if it wasn't going to somehow come back. Probably via something curlyhead does. Our heroes will save the last gate and then - oops, more trouble.
The thing is, a definitive No vote now still means the gods will destroy the world if the last Gate is lost, so that threat wouldn't be gone. A No vote and a suspended vote have literally the same impact on the subsequent story. Leaving it hanging has the advantage of not having to devote extra strips to the resolution of the Godsmoot.

[Leirus]

Hilgya and Sigdi, UltraChaotic vs MegaLawful. I kind of want to see that.

[2D8HP]

When an immovable chaotic meets an irresistible lawful!

:biggrin:

[137beth]

I'm hoping we get to see more Hilgya in book 7.

[DavidSh]

Another task for the dwarves is the rescuing of Not-Thad. A human would die from dehydration after a few days of this bouncing fall, if nothing else, but I don't know about his species. I won't fault Rich if he is never mentioned again.

On another topic, I hope Haley gets another line before the end of the book. It's been nearly 20 pages now, unless I've missed something.

[HorizonWalker]

The thing is, a definitive No vote now still means the gods will destroy the world if the last Gate is lost, so that threat wouldn't be gone. A No vote and a suspended vote have literally the same impact on the subsequent story. Leaving it hanging has the advantage of not having to devote extra strips to the resolution of the Godsmoot.

Don't forget that it also allows for jokes about what the clerics are doing while they're stuck in the cathedral for days!

[KorvinStarmast]

I think her most likely role is "Lingering threat that adequately explains why all these moderately powerful dwarves are staying behind." I don't see her playing any significant role beyond that. This.

1. I like Roy sipping beer in the foreground, sipping beer going out the door, and then being his usual good self and bringing the mug back.

2. I really liked "Zip it!" to Belkar.

3. Sigdi and Hylgia: I think they'll grow fond of one another. Off Screen.

4. Minrah's line to open the strip made me grin.

5. Roy's gonna need to pee pretty soon.

[The Pilgrim]

Looks like Hilgya got stuck with an "Intrusive Mother-in-Law, level: EPIC". Serves her good.

[Draconi Redfir]

Onwards! to ADVENTURE!!!!

[Flyingbooks42]

Has anybody else noticed that in the last panel it looks a bit as if Roy is floating because of the angle of his foot?

[Larre Gannd]

Yeah. The two bards are confirmed for Bard 12+, as well, and the fighters are pretty dang strong if they're all on the same level as the guy who fairly easily overcame a Nightcrawler's DR. They'll be fine.

Is there an indication that they are as strong as Roy? I don’t remember that.

[Draconi Redfir]

the multiple different views of the room giving it almost a full 3d view and an amazing idea of location on each character!

definitely a far cry from the old days of standing still in rooms with one-colour walls and not really moving about much (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0308.html)

For this particular room, i wouldn't be surprised if Rich had made a small D&D-style 2-D map for it and had tokens representing each of the characters standing on it so he could accurately tell who would be visible and when.

[MoonCat]

I feel like the last time we saw Roy alive and this relaxed was during his New Year's date with Celia.

[drazen]

Don't forget that it also allows for jokes about what the clerics are doing while they're stuck in the cathedral for days!

It also explains why those extremely high level clerics are also unavailable to join them. I suspect Veldrina would have been on board (yes yes it's a KS reward character, but I think it would have been *in* character for her to over-eagerly want to help), and once High Priestess Rubyrock gets wind of the details, she is probably keen to Do Something as well.

[Peelee]

I feel like the last time we saw Roy alive and this relaxed was during his New Year's date with Celia.

He seemed fairly relaxed when he was shining his armor and talking to Haley just after the Darth V debacle.

[Coventry]

Ah, Roy...that hangover will last about two weeks!

Ah Roy, ever the example of "lawful good".

[bunsen_h]

Looks like Hilgya got stuck with an "Intrusive Mother-in-Law, level: EPIC". Serves her good.

I have very mixed feelings about it. I don't like Hilgya; I fundamentally disapprove of her personality and behaviour. I don't at all mind her getting some "comeuppance", and if good example helps her to change, that's great. But being sort-of-stuck in close quarters with someone of extremely conflicting personality generally leads to a lot of friction and tension, and that's a very unhealthy environment for a child to grow up in. Even if it doesn't actually lead to carnage. "Look, I had to take her down, for my own sanity. I raised her again. What's the problem?"

I notice that again, Kudzu is smiling when (and only when) he's facing Durkon. Nice touch!

EDIT: Re: hangovers, perhaps beer brewed by a Dwarven brewmaster doesn't do that.

[Souju]

It also explains why those extremely high level clerics are also unavailable to join them. I suspect Veldrina would have been on board (yes yes it's a KS reward character, but I think it would have been *in* character for her to over-eagerly want to help), and once High Priestess Rubyrock gets wind of the details, she is probably keen to Do Something as well.

...wow I think you hit the nail directly on the head there.

What better way to distract a cadre of powerful divine casters (literally the strongest divine casters in the world!) and their martial support from trivializing a world-ending disaster than celestial bureaucracy locking them in a building for weeks straight?

[The_Weirdo]

Hilgya's Evil for taking in Durkon's mother!

[Ariko]

Has anybody else noticed that in the last panel it looks a bit as if Roy is floating because of the angle of his foot?

So I wasn't the only one who had that initial impression.:smallamused:

[Anarion]

Durkon’s mom is quite the force to be reckoned with. I hope she and Hilgya get a moment or two later on for comedy and to see how they’re doing.

[Lord Torath]

They moved in to help us take care of a baby. Child care is crazy expensive, yo. They're fantastic.Try it with triplets. :smallamused: My mom and her sisters stopped in daily on a rotating basis to help my wife while I was at work. It would have been really rough without their help.

I love how Sigdi just kind of pushes Durkon out of the conversation.

Thanks, Rich!

[Turin_19]

definitely a far cry from the old days of standing still in rooms with one-colour walls and not really moving about much (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0308.html)

For this particular room, i wouldn't be surprised if Rich had made a small D&D-style 2-D map for it and had tokens representing each of the characters standing on it so he could accurately tell who would be visible and when.

That's a really interesting view of how he'd do it. Think of how hard it could be to keep moving between the panels and know where each one is.

And the best: it's easy to understand while you're reading it.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I‘m sure Sigdi and Hilgya are going to have an interesting time while Durkon is out. Also, it definitely feels that we’re approaching the final few strips.

[Jasdoif]

Hilgya's Evil for taking in Durkon's mother!Only if the next step is Hilgya taking out Durkon's mother. (And maybe not even then!)

[Crusher]

Off they go!

[gatemansgc]

no "the order of the stick will be back in january" at the bottom, so one or two more to go i guess! gotta actually board the airship and fly off into the distance!

love everything about this comic, just great!

[Epinephrine_Syn]

"Look, I had to take her down, for my own sanity. I raised her again. What's the problem?"

Presuming, of course, that Sigdi actually wants to come back at all. Remember that she's a dwarf and they all need to die in battle. She's in elderly age, crippled, and unlikely to ever wade into true combat again. If she goads hilgya into giving her an Honorable Death in combat over a fight for the safety and well being of their child, that could honestly work.

[elbereth]

I think Sigdi and Hilgya are going to be great for each other with a few epic fights. Hilgya is an independent minded individual who thinks the worst of people the only people they can't defend against is a person who is dedicated to being nice and friendly against their will. Sigdi is a long suffering martyr who is ever so nice and the only people they can't defend against is some one who doesn't care about any of that craps.
Hilgya: "I can take care of this baby with no help"
Sigdi:"of course you can i'm just happy to change and feed and care for him while you take some time to yourself, thanks so much for letting me."

Sigdi: "I can't get my arm regenerated because my dead husband wouldn't know I'm suffering for him."
Hilgya: "That's stupid your husbands stupid and don't pretend you are any better than anyone for suffering for your stupid dead husband, when you want to stop being stupid I'll fix it for you but don't pretend anyone cares about this but you."

Eventually Sigdi gets a new arm and Hilgya stops being awful to everyone who tries to help her.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I'm really hoping Haley was nice and placed a couple kegs in one of her Bags for Durkon to enjoy later. He could really use a prolonged taste of home moment.

Hopefully, Sigdi will calm down a bit once the first rush of "New Grandbaby!!" wears off.

[The_Weirdo]

Only if the next step is Hilgya taking out Durkon's mother. (And maybe not even then!)

You said it, not me. :smallbiggrin:


Eventually Sigdi gets a new arm and Hilgya stops being awful to everyone who tries to help her.

Well, Hilgya's more awful to people that try to do the opposite of helping her - such as her clan.

To people who try to pleh her, if you will.

[Quizatzhaderac]

It's amazing how many details are in this strip!

Haley taking out her jacket, then shown with it on in the last panel....Gasp! But Vaarsuvius is still wearing only zer warm weather clothes! Will ze be alright?

[Jasdoif]

You said it, not me. :smallbiggrin:Hardly my fault "take out" is polyidiomatic (https://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/take-out) :smalltongue:

[The_Weirdo]

Hardly my fault "take out" is polyidiomatic (https://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/take-out) :smalltongue:

>_>

<_<

*Grabs the banana, covers it in strawberry, chocolate and vanilla ice cream, sprinkles some ground peanuts and adds some syrup. Eats the banana split.*

It's hot in here. -_-

[Fyraltari]

Reading that just makes me realize how lucky I got on my in-laws. Roughly the same situation, but everyone's happy about it instead.
You killed your mate and reanimated her? Damn, that’s cold.

The thing is, a definitive No vote now still means the gods will destroy the world if the last Gate is lost, so that threat wouldn't be gone. A No vote and a suspended vote have literally the same impact on the subsequent story. Leaving it hanging has the advantage of not having to devote extra strips to the resolution of the Godsmoot.
If the last gate is lost, the gods destroying the gate would be the better outcome.

When an immovable chaotic meets an irresistible lawful!

:biggrin:
Wouldn’t that be the opposite.



EDIT: Re: hangovers, perhaps beer brewed by a Dwarven brewmaster doesn't do that.
They most likely do but Elan has Cure Poison anyway.

Hilgya's Evil for taking in Durkon's mother!
Hey did you change your avatar?

no "the order of the stick will be back in january" at the bottom, so one or two more to go i guess! gotta actually board the airship and fly off into the distance!

love everything about this comic, just great!
It’s traditional to end with some sort of cliffhanger by now. Fingers crossed for it involving the Dark One.

Presuming, of course, that Sigdi actually wants to come back at all. Remember that she's a dwarf and they all need to die in battle. She's in elderly age, crippled, and unlikely to ever wade into true combat again. If she goads hilgya into giving her an Honorable Death in combat over a fight for the safety and well being of their child, that could honestly work.
Sigdi would definitely come back for Kudzu.

I think Sigdi and Hilgya are going to be great for each other with a few epic fights. Hilgya is an independent minded individual who thinks the worst of people the only people they can't defend against is a person who is dedicated to being nice and friendly against their will. Sigdi is a long suffering martyr who is ever so nice and the only people they can't defend against is some one who doesn't care about any of that craps.
Hilgya: "I can take care of this baby with no help"
Sigdi:"of course you can i'm just happy to change and feed and care for him while you take some time to yourself, thanks so much for letting me."

Sigdi: "I can't get my arm regenerated because my dead husband wouldn't know I'm suffering for him."
Hilgya: "That's stupid your husbands stupid and don't pretend you are any better than anyone for suffering for your stupid dead husband, when you want to stop being stupid I'll fix it for you but don't pretend anyone cares about this but you."

Eventually Sigdi gets a new arm and Hilgya stops being awful to everyone who tries to help her.

I don’t have a vote but if I did I would give it to this.

[Peelee]

You said it, not me. :smallbiggrin:

I don't see why anyone would claim inviting Sigdi to a restaurant would be Evil.

[The_Weirdo]

Hey did you change your avatar?

It was as thanks to D.One for getting info from his friends about where in Brasília there might be a specific type of soda (I live in Belo Horizonte; he'd send it to me and I'd pay for it all, if it works). You can read the details in the thread on the previous comic, but basically, by my own initiative, I decided to change the avatar so he's not mistaken for me, given my slightly controversial reputation.


I don't see why anyone would claim inviting Sigdi to a restaurant would be Evil.

It's an Evil restaurant. OLoki Garden.

[Jasdoif]

I don't see why anyone would claim inviting Sigdi to a restaurant would be Evil.Maybe if they knew it was a restaurant with an Evil chef? (Tarquie's Takeout?)

[Peelee]

You killed your mate and reanimated her? Damn, that’s cold.

Oh, not at all, I'm not Evil.

Also not a magical dwarf, for the record.

[The_Weirdo]

Maybe if they knew it was a restaurant with an Evil chef? (Tarquie's Takeout?)

Dude, I totally ate you. With ice cream. Everyone here's a witness.

[Peelee]

Dude, I totally ate you. With ice cream. Everyone here's a witness.

Are you sure this is something you wish to continue?

[Ornithologist]

Am I the only one who would be okay with book 7 being a literal sitcom of Hilgya and Sigdi in an apartment somewhere, with a sending panel from Durkon from time to time in ever increasing unlikely scenarios (and sight gags) every 10 to 15 pages.

:Sigdi: Oh Hilgya, you just missed Durkon's Sending! 'es now off to the Demiplane of Candy folk to stop Xykon from moving tha' tenticle of the Snarl to destroy Gumdrop Castle!

:Hilgya: I didn't care when it was the secret astral fortress, I'm not going to care now. Tell him to bring Kudzu some gummi bears, He likes those.


Only me? oh well. (Now I'm stuck on gummy bears the size of grizzly bears and stuffed in some hunter's trophy room.)

[Jasdoif]

I totally ate you. With ice cream.I'm sure you think you did; But why would I pass up an opportunity to suggest Hilgya could take out Sigdi to the Takeout to take her out, which highlights the linguistic infuriation ambiguity?

[Doug Lampert]

Oh, not at all, I'm not Evil.

Also not a magical dwarf, for the record.

Right, you're a silver dragon. But then you can use alternate form to LOOK like a magical dwarf.

[TheNecrocomicon]

no "the order of the stick will be back in january" at the bottom, so one or two more to go i guess! gotta actually board the airship and fly off into the distance!

That's assuming they're still there. Do recall that the crew were on the verge of mutiny even before this, with their ship being damaged and deprived of its main weaponry. They could easily have decided to cut their losses and head home by now.

There's also the possibility that the frost giants may have taken advantage of the dwarven disarray to pursue the ship to try and exact revenge, or otherwise Thrym commanding them to in some vain hope of impressing Hel. I also find it interesting how we saw nothing of the Mechane (which should have been hovering over Firmament) when Durkon's new hammer broke through to the outside world.

And, as has been pointed out, books tend to end with some sort of cliffhanger. The recent strip featuring the IFCC was plenty ominous, but didn't seem whammy enough for a real sequel hook. That said, it probably won't be any sort of "this seemingly good character is actually evil, OMG" since that would be a retread of the ending of the previous book. It might be Team Evil finding the last Gate, it might be a reveal of the IFCC's "vessel", who knows -- whatever it is, it will only lengthen the odds for the Order.

[The_Weirdo]

Are you sure this is something you wish to continue?

When a mod asks that question, the answer is alwans "no".

So... No. Stopping now. :smalltongue:


I'm sure you think you did; But why would I pass up an opportunity to suggest Hilgya could take out Sigdi to the Takeout to take her out, which highlights the linguistic infuriation ambiguity?

It's still hot here. And humid. Meh. >_>

[TRH]

Hey, wait, they never got around to retrieving that one weird celestial dwarf that got Plane Shifted, did they?

[Peelee]

Right, you're a silver dragon. But then you can use alternate form to LOOK like a magical dwarf.
Fair point.

When a mod asks that question, the answer is alwans "no".

So... No. Stopping now. :smalltongue:
I do like to note that while in black text, I'm just a normal poster. With that being said... good answer.:smallwink: I'm a much happier dragon when I don't have to break out the red text.

[The_Weirdo]

Hey, wait, they never got around to retrieving that one weird celestial dwarf that got Plane Shifted, did they?

The last page of the comic will be him going: "Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow." as he tumbles down.


I do like to note that while in black text, I'm just a normal poster. With that being said... good answer.:smallwink: I'm a much happier dragon when I don't have to break out the red text.

To be sure, Jasdoif never told me if he likes that joke or not. I've asked him once...

[P.LOC]

Poor Durkon. He left dwarven lands without drinking a single beer!

[hroþila]

Don't forget that it also allows for jokes about what the clerics are doing while they're stuck in the cathedral for days!
Truly, the real purpose of the whole comic!

[Jasdoif]

It's still hot here. And humid. Meh. >_>There are better options (https://www.benjerry.com/flavors/chunky-monkey-ice-cream), anyway....Despite the Polymorph Incident, I'm still ambulatory and retain my hair (and seem to still have my warlock damage reduction?); so I imagine conventional bananas would have a far better texture.

[TheNecrocomicon]

Hey, wait, they never got around to retrieving that one weird celestial dwarf that got Plane Shifted, did they?


The last page of the comic will be him going: "Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow." as he tumbles down.

Aw crap ... could he be the IFCC's new "vessel"? Seems plenty powerful as an individual, not to mention Sabine can offer him a way out of his current painful predicament (and into more fiendish clutches).

[The_Weirdo]

There are better options (https://www.benjerry.com/flavors/chunky-monkey-ice-cream), anyway....Despite the Polymorph Incident, I'm still ambulatory and retain my hair (and seem to still have my warlock damage reduction?); so I imagine conventional bananas would have a far better texture.

Ben & Jerry's actually - fairly recently, some four years ago - finally appeared in Brazil.

No Rocky Road ice cream yet, though, so meh.

[Peelee]

There are better options (https://www.benjerry.com/flavors/chunky-monkey-ice-cream), anyway....

I thought you said better (https://www.benjerry.com/flavors/cherry-garcia-ice-cream).

[The_Weirdo]

Aw crap ... could he be the IFCC's new "vessel"? Seems plenty powerful as an individual, not to mention Sabine can offer him a way out of his current painful predicament (and into more fiendish clutches).

"Hello, sir, I am here on behalf of-"

"Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow."

*Pop*

*Pop*

"-the IFCC, a consortium of demons that-"

"Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow."

*Pop*

*Pop*

"-wishes to make you an offer-"

"Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow."

*Pop*

*Pop*

"-to get you out of this predicament."

"Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow."

"Annnnd I'm out of teleports. Ah well. I'll continue the pitch tomorrow."

[Jasdoif]

I thought you said better (https://www.benjerry.com/flavors/cherry-garcia-ice-cream).If we're talking about ice cream in general instead of banana-split-adjacent options, sure (https://www.sanbernardoicecream.com/ecomm/product/guanaban-ahhh).

[elbereth]

You said it, not me. :smallbiggrin:



Well, Hilgya's more awful to people that try to do the opposite of helping her - such as her clan.

To people who try to pleh her, if you will.

"How about you don't tell me what to do human, how about that?" " So you're Durkon's new flavor of the month?" " Nothing suggests that Durkon hasn't been dropped on his head" "Flame strike."
Hilgya is awful (rude, judgmental, dismissive and overreacts to small slights) to people. She could stand to be a bit nicer.
Hilgya seeks vengeance on her former clan. This is perfectly reasonable. She didn't even set fire to them which is nicer that she thought she needed to be.

I think after a few months with Sigdi Hilgya will only flame strike people who deserve it and not people who are rude to her. Maybe not. Who knows?

[The_Weirdo]

"How about you don't tell me what to do human, how about that?" " So you're Durkon's new flavor of the month?" " Nothing suggests that Durkon hasn't been dropped on his head" "Flame strike."
Hilgya is awful (rude, judgmental, dismissive and overreacts to small slights) to people. She could stand to be a bit nicer.
Hilgya seeks vengeance on her former clan. This is perfectly reasonable. She didn't even set fire to them which is nicer that she thought she needed to be.

I think after a few months with Sigdi Hilgya will only flame strike people who deserve it and not people who are rude to her. Maybe not. Who knows?

Oh, I'm mostly in agreement with you on that (and I apologize if my answer seemed snippy). I was just saying she plehs most who plehs her most.

[chiefwaha]

EDIT: Re: hangovers, perhaps beer brewed by a Dwarven brewmaster doesn't do that.

If anything, I would think Dwarven beers would have rougher hangovers for lesser races... I mean they're brewing them to overcome that high Con and poison resistance... :smallsmile:

[KatsOfLoathing]

This is a good sendoff, though I have to admit I'm growing slightly impatient to move on to the next thing. We're still owed a dramatic last-page-of-the-book reveal, darn it!

Everyone has their cold weather clothes back on by the last panel. Wonder if that'll be the standard attire for the last book? Or maybe Haley will somehow manage to swing another costume change out of the art upgrade after all.

[StClair]

Durkon's ma will not be denied.

[TheNecrocomicon]

[lengthy teleport gag]

I mean, that might work, but Sabine or Qarr can just fly alongside the guy as he continues to tumble.

Personally, I think Sabine will find Tarquin as he is on the ropes facing a determined mass revolt and offer him a way out (in some way that appeases his desire for drama), which then allows her to deliver him to the IFCC as their "vessel".

Or it could be someone else entirely. Just the implication is that it needs to be somebody strong and/or powerful, or the IFCC could have absconded with anyone to do it -- and more than likely it's not anybody in the Order or in Team Evil.

EDIT: Or maybe, does becoming the IFCC's "vessel" constitute "taking [one's] last breath ever"?

[bunsen_h]

If anything, I would think Dwarven beers would have rougher hangovers for lesser races... I mean they're brewing them to overcome that high Con and poison resistance... :smallsmile:

Sure, but the brewmaster might have the skill to incorporate a hangover remedy into the brew without detriment to its taste and other qualities. A built-in Potion of Hangover Cure, as it were. :smallsmile:


Has anybody else noticed that in the last panel it looks a bit as if Roy is floating because of the angle of his foot?

I think that the cloud of bubbles around his head contributes to that effect.

[Lord Torath]

That's assuming they're still there. Do recall that the crew were on the verge of mutiny even before this, with their ship being damaged and deprived of its main weaponry. They could easily have decided to cut their losses and head home by now.Firmament's a big place, and the Council Chamber is some distance from the Temple of Thor. None of the Thunderhammer External ShotsTM showed the external entrance to the Temple of Thor, which is where the Mechane is 'parked'. So it's not surprising we didn't see it in those shots. Plus, I'm pretty sure someone would have commented on the missing Mechane in the last panel of this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1185.html) if it was gone.

"The Mechane's gone! How are we going to reach the North Pole now? (Also, here's your stein*)"

* Not to be confused with "Here's your sign".

[Jasdoif]

Ben & Jerry's actually - fairly recently, some four years ago - finally appeared in Brazil.

No Rocky Road ice cream yet, though, so meh.Well, Ben & Jerry's is much better known for (https://www.benjerry.com/flavors/karamel-sutra-core/) their (https://www.benjerry.com/flavors/chubby-hubby-ice-cream/) unconventional (https://www.benjerry.com/flavors/half-baked-ice-cream/) flavors (https://www.benjerry.com/flavors/everything-but-the-ice-cream/), and their "Rocky Road-ish" was a limited thing in 2012....If you're looking for something like rocky road, phish food (https://www.benjerry.com/flavors/phish-food-ice-cream/) and s'mores (https://www.benjerry.com/flavors/smores-ice-cream/) are going to be closest.

[The_Weirdo]

Well, Ben & Jerry's is much better known for (https://www.benjerry.com/flavors/karamel-sutra-core/) their (https://www.benjerry.com/flavors/chubby-hubby-ice-cream/) unconventional (https://www.benjerry.com/flavors/half-baked-ice-cream/) flavors (https://www.benjerry.com/flavors/everything-but-the-ice-cream/), and their "Rocky Road-ish" was a limited thing in 2012....If you're looking for something like rocky road, phish food (https://www.benjerry.com/flavors/phish-food-ice-cream/) and s'mores (https://www.benjerry.com/flavors/smores-ice-cream/) are going to be closest.

I have tried phish food. Quite good, too. Good to know that I tried something closeish to rocky road, then.

[chiefwaha]

Sure, but the brewmaster might have the skill to incorporate a hangover remedy into the brew without detriment to its taste and other qualities. A built-in Potion of Hangover Cure, as it were. :smallsmile:


I thought the dwarven cure for hangovers was more beer though?

[woweedd]

Heh! I love how Roy's limbs are all bendy in the final panel. Because he's drunk, see.

[Vessyra]

I think I'll subscribe to the "Not-Thad as vessel" theory; after all, someone's already coming to plane shift him out, and the IFCC's scrying means they probably know.

Although the question is what/who Not-Thad will be a vessel for. My money's on Nale's soul.

[TheNecrocomicon]

I think I'll subscribe to the "Not-Thad as vessel" theory; after all, someone's already coming to plane shift him out, and the IFCC's scrying means they probably know.

Although the question is what/who Not-Thad will be a vessel for. My money's on Nale's soul.

I don't get why the IFCC would even care about returning Nale to the mortal world, if it's a choice between people to do their bidding. They have access to beyond-epic-level Evil-aligned deceased souls, as demonstrated in the Soul Splice. The only real reason would be if they specifically needed Nale himself for some reason, and I can't see what would make him that critical to their aims.

Personally, I think they need a vessel for their own consciousnesses to physically manifest on the Material Plane. They had to be summoned by Vaarsuvius to make the Soul Splice deal, implied it took a fair bit of effort to get their consciousnesses there, and seemed keen not to stay long. If they could find a physically powerful mortal body to inhabit with their own unholy presence(s), that would certainly be a major asset for their plot to destabilize the material world of mortals.

[Fyraltari]

It was as thanks to D.One for getting info from his friends about where in Brasília there might be a specific type of soda (I live in Belo Horizonte; he'd send it to me and I'd pay for it all, if it works). You can read the details in the thread on the previous comic, but basically, by my own initiative, I decided to change the avatar so he's not mistaken for me, given my slightly controversial reputation.
Oh right. I did that once or twice.

Maybe if they knew it was a restaurant with an Evil chef? (Tarquie's Takeout?)
Belkar’s Bakery.

Oh, not at all, I'm not Evil.
That sounds like something someone evil would say!

That's assuming they're still there. Do recall that the crew were on the verge of mutiny even before this, with their ship being damaged and deprived of its main weaponry. They could easily have decided to cut their losses and head home by now.
They mutined already. But then they realized their current captain was right and let her took charge again.


There's also the possibility that the frost giants may have taken advantage of the dwarven disarray to pursue the ship to try and exact revenge, or otherwise Thrym commanding them to in some vain hope of impressing Hel.
The Giant’s forced in the region are destroyed. Thrym was explicitly out ignored ways to help. And the dwarves are not in disarray at all, only a few people died and they already have elite warriors roaming the mountains looking for trees to fell.


"Hello, sir, I am here on behalf of-"

"Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow."

*Pop*

*Pop*

"-the IFCC, a consortium of demons that-"

"Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow."

*Pop*

*Pop*

"-wishes to make you an offer-"

"Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow."

*Pop*

*Pop*

"-to get you out of this predicament."

"Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow."

"Annnnd I'm out of teleports. Ah well. I'll continue the pitch tomorrow."

*Chuckles*

[The MunchKING]

I think I'll subscribe to the "Not-Thad as vessel" theory; after all, someone's already coming to plane shift him out, and the IFCC's scrying means they probably know.

Well if Sabine is using her vacation days, that means she probably doesn't know she's getting someone explicitly for the IFCC. Which means it's probably not a direct recruitment.

[KorvinStarmast]

I don't get why the IFCC would even care about returning Nale to the mortal world, Agree. Nale's a loose cannon. I will place my two copper piece wager on someone else, heck anyone else. Even Redcloak's niece

[Vessyra]

I don't get why the IFCC would even care about returning Nale to the mortal world, if it's a choice between people to do their bidding. They have access to beyond-epic-level Evil-aligned deceased souls, as demonstrated in the Soul Splice. The only real reason would be if they specifically needed Nale himself for some reason, and I can't see what would make him that critical to their aims.

Personally, I think they need a vessel for their own consciousnesses to physically manifest on the Material Plane. They had to be summoned by Vaarsuvius to make the Soul Splice deal, implied it took a fair bit of effort to get their consciousnesses there, and seemed keen not to stay long. If they could find a physically powerful mortal body to inhabit with their own unholy presence(s), that would certainly be a major asset for their plot to destabilize the material world of mortals.

Hmmm, yes that makes more sense. I had been figuring that Sabine would care about Nale returning, but she wouldn't really get a vote in the IFCC's plans. I guess I just need to listen to the "Nale is no more" signature more often.

[Petrocorus]

I suspect Veldrina would have been on board (yes yes it's a KS reward character, but I think it would have been *in* character for her to over-eagerly want to help),
KS reward character?



I notice that again, Kudzu is smiling when (and only when) he's facing Durkon. Nice touch!
Noticed that too, Kudzu is already completely fond of his father despite knowing him for only a few hours. Cool.


That's assuming they're still there. Do recall that the crew were on the verge of mutiny even before this, with their ship being damaged and deprived of its main weaponry. They could easily have decided to cut their losses and head home by now.
OTOH, the dwarves may have helped them recover some weaponry. IDK.
How long the events in Firmaments actually took in total?


Hey, wait, they never got around to retrieving that one weird celestial dwarf that got Plane Shifted, did they?
I'm still not sure of his class? Soulknife? Psychic Warrior?
His speech bubbles were weird and he was apparently powerful enough to one-strike an elemental.
Could he have the means to come back on his own?

[Fyraltari]

KS reward character?
Veldrina was meant to be a walk-in cameo of a kickstarter donor’s character as a reward for the amount of money pledged. But the Giant realized the character would fit in the role of the Western Pantheon représentative and the backer agreed to have the cameo delayed so that their character would get a whole minor role.


OTOH, the dwarves may have helped them recover some weaponry. IDK.
How long the events in Firmaments actually took in total?
The order arrived after midnight and left before noon.

[Dion]

Agree. Nale's a loose cannon. I will place my two copper piece wager on someone else, heck anyone else. Even Redcloak's niece

So maybe not nale, but what about not not nale?

So... maybe... Thog?

[Valley]

At least Roy returned the mug. So many people just walk off with the things thinking they are some kind of keepsake or souvenir. Cheap tourists. *grumblegrumblegrumble*

[JumboWheat01]

Remember to always return your mugs. Don't want dwarven bounty hunters chasing after you.

[Doug Lampert]

Remember to always return your mugs. Don't want dwarven bounty hunters chasing after you.

Are they anything like Dwarf Assassins (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0229.html)?

Because if they are, then it ends with the hotel being blown up (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0242.html) and hundreds of aphasia strips.

[a_flemish_guy]

roy returns the mug that he succesfully gotten outside with and doesn't keep it for his collection, well that officially settles it, he's objectively a better person then I am

[NobleCuriosity]

roy returns the mug that he succesfully gotten outside with and doesn't keep it for his collection, well that officially settles it, he's objectively a better person then I am

Weirdly, brewmaster Blackore (name in 1096) actually seems less happy when Roy returns it than when Roy was walking off with it. Just surprised, I guess?

[UtahBrian]

Another task for the dwarves is the rescuing of Not-Thad. A human would die from dehydration after a few days of this bouncing fall, if nothing else, but I don't know about his species. I won't fault Rich if he is never mentioned again.


Is Thad Durkon's cousin's brother-in-law's niece's fiancé? If we don't ever see him again, then does that mean the blue speech bubble and the wavery voice print will never be explained? I'm still wondering what that was all about.

[Schroeswald]

Is Thad Durkon's cousin's brother-in-law's niece's fiancé? If we don't ever see him again, then does that mean the blue speech bubble and the wavery voice print will never be explained? I'm still wondering what that was all about.

No, Thad was Durkon’s cousin’s brother-in-law’s niece’s ex-male romantic partner, Not-Thad is Durkon’s cousin’s brother-in-law’s niece’s fiancé, but luckily we were already talking about him so yeah, yes. I highly doubt it will be explained in the online comic (though I’d guess we’d see something about it in a bonus strip).

[Fyraltari]

Is Thad Durkon's cousin's brother-in-law's niece's fiancé?
No, Thad is Durkon's cousin's brother-in-law's niece's ex. Durkon's cousin's brother-in-law's niece's fiancé is not Thad.

If we don't ever see him again, then does that mean the blue speech bubble and the wavery voice print will never be explained? I'm still wondering what that was all about.
It’s a joke about the fact that a given campaign world should have other high-level characters than the main party who also have lives as full of weirdness and excitement as the main party, I think.

[Steel Resolve]

I love how she somehow thought she was going to avoid the mother in law. It doesn't matter whether you eventually decide to marry Durkin or not, the moment you revealed to that woman you bore a grandchild, you were family like it or not. And this woman takes her family seriously.

[understatement]

Surprisingly I think Durkon and Hilgya make pretty amicable exes.

Also, Roy. Truly Lawful Good -- and also, imagining a drunk him trying to fight Xykon would be amazing. And pointless.

[LadyEowyn]

Sigdi’s going to be good for Hilgya. I like their interactions.

[Arthancarict]

My theory on who the vessel will be: Trigak:smalltongue:

[The_Weirdo]

Sigdi’s going to be good for Hilgya. I like their interactions.

I think both will be good to each other, really. Now, whether or not Sigdi was intrusive in basically announcing she'd become roomies is another matter. :smalltongue:

[Schroeswald]

It’s a joke about the fact that a given campaign world should have other high-level characters than the main party who also have lives as full of weirdness and excitement as the main party, I think.
I always thought it was a joke about the absurd size of Durkon’s family, that not only is Durkon’s cousin’s brother-in-law’s niece’s fiancé here, but it’s this strange outsider or something.

[fishyfishyfishy]

"See all of you soon."


Oh God they're all going to die aren't they? Shouldn't have said that Durkon.

[Schroeswald]

"See all of you soon."


Oh God they're all going to die aren't they? Shouldn't have said that Durkon.
No, in fact I'll bet 10 gold pieces that when we come back to the dwarven lands (in what, ten years?) every single character, except Curly, who was left behind will still be alive. And since it will be forever until this comes to past no one will remember if it turns out I'm wrong

[Peelee]

No, in fact I'll bet 10 gold pieces that when we come back to the dwarven lands (in what, ten years?) every single character, except Curly, who was left behind will still be alive.

Hey can I quote this so everyone will remember if it turns out you're wrong? :smallamused:

[Schroeswald]

Hey can I quote this so everyone will remember if it turns out you're wrong? :smallamused:

Of course, I partially put the white text in to ensure everyone will laugh at me if I'm wrong.

[nolongeralurker]

Aah this was so good :)
Now Sigdi will get to live in a nice home while spending time with her grandson and making sure Hilgya doesn't run off with him
And Hilgya will get a nice mother figure (albeit an annoying one), since her own mother died and her male relatives treated her badly
And she'll probably end up attending the weekly dinner parties too, which should be a good influence on her, as an example of good healthy friendships

On another note, does anyone else think that Durkon called Kudzu "li'l one" not just because he wanted to use a term of endearment, but also because he dislikes Kudzu's actual name? Just me?

Also:
(DURKON)
Gotta go, gotta get tha job done
Gotta save our nation*, gotta return ta my son!

:)

*ETA: or "all tha nations"

ETA: Obligatory 'is this the last strip?!' It's not, but will it be the last strip in which we see the Order? I think we'll get one more, with the six of them interacting/conversing on the airship... and maybe also greeting Bandana first...

Also, I like that the Giant didn't make sure to put every single member of the Order in the bigger panels. It really makes it feel like a big room with people scattered about, and the focus in this page is on Durkon's dwarven family and friends, anyway.

[LadyEowyn]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the next strip was the last one, given that the Order’s getting on the ship to leave now. That also lines up well with the stated length of the book (it would end up having a similar number of preface/title/bonus/etc strips to other OOTS books), and with being about a month away from the preliminary shipping date for the books.

There hasn’t been a big WHAM! moment at the end like there were for the past two books (revealing Riftworld in DSTP, and revealing that Vampire Durkon wasn’t actually Durkon and was working for Hel in BRITF). But I think that could be because the big surprise moment for Book 6 came earlier, with learning that there had been thousands of past worlds and that Redcloak and the Dark One were the only chance of containing the Snarl.

[jwhouk]

Hilgya and Sigdi, UltraChaotic vs MegaLawful. I kind of want to see that.

(da DAT da-da da DAAAAA...) (https://youtu.be/kDrfHj3j398)

[blunk]

"Not-Thad as vessel"Oh God, please no.

[Sniccups]

His speech bubbles were weird and he was apparently powerful enough to one-strike an elemental.
Could he have the means to come back on his own?

The elemental had already been hit with a Flame Strike.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

I'm going to miss Durkon's mom. :smallbiggrin:

[Vantharion]

I think this is one of my favorite ending jokes in recent memory.

It isn't often Roy gets the closer jokes. This one was golden.

[Emperor Time]

It nice to know that even if the world ends that Sigdi will survive. And hopefully that Roy and Belkar will be less drunk by the time they reached the final gate.

[Jannoire]

Oh, not at all, I'm not Evil.

Also not a magical dwarf, for the record.

Speaking of records, judging from your signature you're also a fan of good music...

So, if Hilgya got the lawfullest dwarf of all as her mother-in-law, does that mean that Sigdi got a daughter-in-chaos?

[A_Gray_Phantom]

I don't know if I'm the first to point this out, but I don't think that arch in the last panel has a keystone. Do arches need keystones? I'm not finding any arches online that don't have keystones.

[Steveio]

Hm... I wonder what they call Helicopter grandparents when helicopters are just some weird Gnomish steampunk thing that hasn't spread anywhere yet. :D

Ioun stone grandparents. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0967.html)

[Jannoire]

I don't know if I'm the first to point this out, but I don't think that arch in the last panel has a keystone. Do arches need keystones? I'm not finding any arches online that don't have keystones.

The key stones are most likely on the outside of doors leading outside... You know, to guard against intrusion?

Edit: Also, Roy still has the key stone from Priestess Rubyrock

[Quebbster]

The key stones are most likely on the outside of doors leading outside... You know, to guard against intrusion?

Edit: Also, Roy still has the key stone from Priestess Rubyrock

I Think he means a different kind of Keystone. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_(architecture)) But there's Always the old standby, "A wizard did it!".

[Jannoire]

Right, that makes more sense...
But I guess, Dwarven stonework is way above human level, so they could put their key stone elsewhere

[factotum]

There's not actually any reason why the keystone of an arch has to be any larger than the other stones around it--that's more a stylistic thing than anything else. If you do an image search for "stone arch" you'll find plenty of real life examples where the keystone isn't particularly pronounced compared to its neighbours.

[a_flemish_guy]

There's not actually any reason why the keystone of an arch has to be any larger than the other stones around it--that's more a stylistic thing than anything else. If you do an image search for "stone arch" you'll find plenty of real life examples where the keystone isn't particularly pronounced compared to its neighbours.

yes, but in the 9th panel it's clear that the arch is symetrical with 2 stones meeting in the middle of the arch, so none of them serve as a keystone

[Riftwolf]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the next strip was the last one, given that the Order’s getting on the ship to leave now. That also lines up well with the stated length of the book (it would end up having a similar number of preface/title/bonus/etc strips to other OOTS books), and with being about a month away from the preliminary shipping date for the books.

There hasn’t been a big WHAM! moment at the end like there were for the past two books (revealing Riftworld in DSTP, and revealing that Vampire Durkon wasn’t actually Durkon and was working for Hel in BRITF). But I think that could be because the big surprise moment for Book 6 came earlier, with learning that there had been thousands of past worlds and that Redcloak and the Dark One were the only chance of containing the Snarl.

My guess is a cutaway to Team Evil finding the last gate.

[Fyraltari]

yes, but in the 9th panel it's clear that the arch is symetrical with 2 stones meeting in the middle of the arch, so none of them serve as a keystone

I think it’s just perspective and the seventh stone from the left is the keystone.

[a_flemish_guy]

I think it’s just perspective and the seventh stone from the left is the keystone.

I'm pretty sure that there's 7 stones on each side (if this is the same arch that was in the background of belkar and roy drinking)

[Tass]

yes, but in the 9th panel it's clear that the arch is symetrical with 2 stones meeting in the middle of the arch, so none of them serve as a keystone

An arch can be perfectly stable with an even number of stones and no central symmetry keystone. It might be a little bit harder to build, but by no means impossible.

[NerdyKris]

Maybe Rich doesn't have an intricate knowledge of architecture and just drew something that looked like an archway without knowing what a keystone is or how the stones have to be aligned.

[Petrocorus]

The elemental had already been hit with a Flame Strike.

Oups... Right, forgot about this.

[TRH]

Oups... Right, forgot about this.

It doesn't have much bearing one way or another on the main question of whether not-Thad can Plane Shift himself back or not. At least I think that was the original question.

[Draconi Redfir]

Maybe Rich doesn't have an intricate knowledge of architecture and just drew something that looked like an archway without knowing what a keystone is or how the stones have to be aligned.

clearly it was entirely crafted with stone-shape, and those "bricks" are all just decorative divots in the stone. when really the entire arch is one solid rock.

[Mic_128]

My guess is a cutaway to Team Evil finding the last gate.

Or, hilariously, a cutaway to Team Evil finding they just crossed off the last doorway and getting pissed that they should have found it.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

I think drunk, polite Roy is my favorite version of Roy.

[Peelee]

Speaking of records, judging from your signature you're also a fan of good music...

Technically, those are all playing off the Mod name, which came first.:smallamused:

But yes, I do like when people get the reference.

[Fyraltari]

Maybe Rich doesn't have an intricate knowledge of architecture and just drew something that looked like an archway without knowing what a keystone is or how the stones have to be aligned.

Most likely yes. He did admit to screwing up a moon at one point.

[Garwain]

I'm ready for a splash page and the end of this book. Or maybe some foreshadowing from team Evil first... Hmm, I've actually missed those guys rummaging around in the dungeon.

[bunsen_h]

An arch can be perfectly stable with an even number of stones and no central symmetry keystone. It might be a little bit harder to build, but by no means impossible.

This. I have no idea of Rich's level of understanding of the fundamentals of architecture or structural engineering, but there's nothing truly wrong with the arch as it's depicted. I just wouldn't want to have to build it. It's much easier to build an arch if it's done symmetrically, with one final stone slid into place at the top, than to have to manage two final stones to be fitted into place symmetrically with the right amount of mortar in between them.

Back In The Day, my wizard built the worked-stone part of his keep using "Transmute Rock to Mud" mud for mortar, later dispelled so that the stones were bound with solid rock.

[diremage]

Arches are generally built with a temporary wooden support structure under the middle anyhow, as I understand it, so it's not critical to get the stones perfectly correct as long as they are -more or less- in the right spot and the right shape. Once they're in place, gravity will serve just fine to lock them in.

This looks like it might be a decorative facade anyhow; the hallway behind it continues the arch and does not have the same general appearance, although it could still be worked stone under plaster. Depends on how much of the mountain the dwarves left in place while they were building it and how much they knocked down and then dragged back into place later.

The middle windows of this gothic wall use the same even symmetry as the arch in the comic, although the top windows use odd symmetry (you might have to zoom in to get a good look) https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/10/ae/49/bb/gothic-arches.jpg

[Quizatzhaderac]

I Think he means a different kind of Keystone. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_(architecture)) But there's Always the old standby, "A wizard did it!".That's why the arches don't have keystones, wizards came by and magic'ed them all.

[KorvinStarmast]

I think drunk, polite Roy is my favorite version of Roy.You can call that version of Roy "Roy Greenhat" ... I just had that thought as I looked at the final panel today.

[MossyMeow]

Only on this forum would someone perform a detailed analysis on the functionality of an arch.

[Anitar]

Only on this forum would someone perform a detailed analysis on the functionality of an arch.
Nonsense. I'm sure there's at least one architecture forum out there.

[Jannoire]

But yes, I do like when people get the reference.

Hihi *grin*


Only on this forum would someone perform a detailed analysis on the functionality of an arch.

You must be new to the internet...

[Alexandrite]

It's good to get back the adventures of the Order of the Stick, fearlessly led by Roy Green-Around-The-Gills. Seriously, lesser restoration is a level 2 spell.

[MossyMeow]

You must be new to the internet...

I just came out from under my rock.

[The MunchKING]

Ioun stone grandparents. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0967.html)

That's pretty good. Full points there.

[Dr.Zero]

It's impressive how H&D moved from "You did hurt me, I hurt you, now we're even" to "Let's stay civil for our son" (with a hint of vitriolic friends when they insulted each other god) to... well, she will remain in his hometown, will live with his mom, he asks her to save his mom if needed, she already is annoyed by her mom in law, with him basically agreeing that his mom is a bit... invasive.

This is practically being a wife and a husband, just without the papers and the sex.

Fun fact: some years ago I read a research about the reasons that make couple break or create tensions; ideological, political or religious differences (as here might be being LG vs CN) were the last of the reasons, the heavy ones were discussions about the management of the house and its finances, jealousy, and petty things like snoring, different tastes in food, music, shows -with fights over the tv remote control- and so on.
So if Durkon returns back in one piece and manages to stop to snore (afair Belkar said D snores quite a lot), he might have still a chance with H.

[The_Weirdo]

So if Durkon returns back in one piece and manages to stop to snore (afair Belkar said D snores quite a lot), he might have still a chance with H.

I don't think either of them wants that and I don't think either of them should pursue that. Civility and slightly vitriolic friendship is as good as it gets for them, basically because the way each operates goes beyond mere ideology. Then again, Durkon seems to be learning to operate in a saner fashion...

[Peelee]

I don't think either of them should pursue that.

Don't you tell Hilgya what to do. :smallamused:

[The_Weirdo]

Don't you tell Hilgya what to do. :smallamused:

I wasn't and I promise not to if she ever shows up on this thread. :smallbiggrin:

[Rogar Demonblud]

Better hope she doesn't scry on you either.

[The_Weirdo]

Better hope she doesn't scry on you either.

Not really worried. I never proposed. :smallbiggrin:

[Schroeswald]

I don't think either of them wants that and I don't think either of them should pursue that. Civility and slightly vitriolic friendship is as good as it gets for them, basically because the way each operates goes beyond mere ideology. Then again, Durkon seems to be learning to operate in a saner fashion...
You know you go and change your profile picture so no one mistakes anyone else with you, and now I mistake you for someone else.

EDIT: This wasn’t at all a response to the specific post besides the fact that this was (mostly) something I agreed with and this was the first time I saw you post since the profile picture change and thought it was some random poster and then realized it was actually you.

[Ruck]

If we're talking about ice cream in general instead of banana-split-adjacent options, sure (https://www.sanbernardoicecream.com/ecomm/product/guanaban-ahhh).

My new favorite store-bought ice cream is this:

https://cool.haus/product/ice-cream-pints/milk-cookie-crumb/

Although my new favorite local ice cream is this:

https://www.sweetcowicecream.com/


That's assuming they're still there. Do recall that the crew were on the verge of mutiny even before this, with their ship being damaged and deprived of its main weaponry. They could easily have decided to cut their losses and head home by now.

There's also the possibility that the frost giants may have taken advantage of the dwarven disarray to pursue the ship to try and exact revenge, or otherwise Thrym commanding them to in some vain hope of impressing Hel. I also find it interesting how we saw nothing of the Mechane (which should have been hovering over Firmament) when Durkon's new hammer broke through to the outside world.

I don't think any of that is likely. The "mutiny" was pretty well quelled when Bandana assured the crew would get paid; only Andi continued to be a problem. And I'm not even sure how many frost giants were left, but it doesn't make sense for Thrym to send them now, even if they could get to wherever the Order is going.


And, as has been pointed out, books tend to end with some sort of cliffhanger. The recent strip featuring the IFCC was plenty ominous, but didn't seem whammy enough for a real sequel hook. That said, it probably won't be any sort of "this seemingly good character is actually evil, OMG" since that would be a retread of the ending of the previous book. It might be Team Evil finding the last Gate, it might be a reveal of the IFCC's "vessel", who knows -- whatever it is, it will only lengthen the odds for the Order.

Now a cliffhanger, sure.


I wouldn’t be surprised if the next strip was the last one, given that the Order’s getting on the ship to leave now. That also lines up well with the stated length of the book (it would end up having a similar number of preface/title/bonus/etc strips to other OOTS books), and with being about a month away from the preliminary shipping date for the books.

There hasn’t been a big WHAM! moment at the end like there were for the past two books (revealing Riftworld in DSTP, and revealing that Vampire Durkon wasn’t actually Durkon and was working for Hel in BRITF). But I think that could be because the big surprise moment for Book 6 came earlier, with learning that there had been thousands of past worlds and that Redcloak and the Dark One were the only chance of containing the Snarl.

I think we might get two or even three strips, but we are very close-- and it could easily be done in a double or triple strip. I just think we're gonna get some kind of Good Guys roundup on the airship; depending on how much needs to be said, that could take more than one strip. And I'm pretty confident we'll get some kind of cut to the North Pole before the end. I think the cliffhanger is likely to be Team Evil finding the Gate, but I could be wrong.

[The_Weirdo]

My new favorite store-bought ice cream is this:

https://cool.haus/product/ice-cream-pints/milk-cookie-crumb/

Although my new favorite local ice cream is this:

https://www.sweetcowicecream.com/

You guys have such interesting ice creams and sodas.


You know you go and change your profile picture so no one mistakes anyone else with you, and now I mistake you for someone else.

EDIT: This wasn’t at all a response to the specific post besides the fact that this was (mostly) something I agreed with and this was the first time I saw you post since the profile picture change and thought it was some random poster and then realized it was actually you.

Well, not specifically anyone. This is, after all, a generic-ish avatar. That said, D.One said he'd check for a specific soda I wanted to taste again in Brasília (I live in Belo Horizonte) and maybe send me some. So, as a nice gesture towards him, I decided to change my avatar so he'd not be mistaken for me due to my slightly controversial views.

[Pyrrhic Gades]

Has anybody else noticed that in the last panel it looks a bit as if Roy is floating because of the angle of his foot?

That's because Roy is having a Root Beer Float.

[The_Weirdo]

That's because Roy is having a Root Beer Float.

Hmm... Summer's on. I should consider making some coke shakes here...

[Wowlock]

Looks like Hilgya got stuck with an "Intrusive Mother-in-Law, level: EPIC". Serves her good.

It will be a good bonding opportunity for them. I am sure Durkon will come back to some surprises!

[Dion]

Was this the last strip? :-)

[TheNecrocomicon]

Was this the last strip? :-)

Extremely unlikely. The last strip of a given book tends to have some kind of whammy cliffhanger and/or a warm or witty send-off, followed by a "The Order of the Stick will return on [DATE]." text-on-black panel at the end.

We will all know when it's the last strip of the book.

[Fyraltari]

I think we might get two or even three strips, but we are very close-- and it could easily be done in a double or triple strip. I just think we're gonna get some kind of Good Guys roundup on the airship; depending on how much needs to be said, that could take more than one strip.

Yes, I'm expecting a cut to the Order on the ship just after Durkon told them what Thor told Minrah and him, and the various reactions of the members and the discussions/speculations that springs from that.

[Dr.Zero]

I don't think either of them wants that and I don't think either of them should pursue that. Civility and slightly vitriolic friendship is as good as it gets for them, basically because the way each operates goes beyond mere ideology. Then again, Durkon seems to be learning to operate in a saner fashion...

Yeah, it was a joke, mostly.

Nonetheless, I wouldn't completely ignore the chances.

After all H was very interested in D before that he sent her back home.
And D seemed to be very pleased by H (it is debatable if he heard that she was a cleric of Loki, anyway at the time he had very few ranks in "knowledge religion", so maybe he heard that and only now he realizes that staying with her would be impossible).

They did break up mostly because their different views on "a dwarf right to happiness", but D's view on that point has changed. Not so much to reach H's level, but enough to mirror H in a debate with Sigdi.

Said that, yeah, the chances are slim: we have already two couples in the comic (E+Ha, Roy+C), and maybe we will reach three, if it is true the theory that Minrah is lesbian (in that case I bet on Minrah+Bandana).

[NihhusHuotAliro]

You can call that version of Roy "Roy Greenhat" ... I just had that thought as I looked at the final panel today.

I like it!

My only trouble is that we know that Roy's true name is Maurice, as revealed by Durkon to Durkula/Yeerkon/Jerkon/Nokrud/Durkoff/Darkon. Maurice Greenhat has a really nice ring to it, and would be a fun forum in-joke. I mean.

R. Maurice Greenhat, the polite, intelligent, incredibly inebriated adventurer!

[bunsen_h]

Hmm... Summer's on. I should consider making some coke shakes here...

When the shakes start happening, you need to Plane Shift out.

[Peelee]

Hmm... Summer's on.

Not gonna lie, I'm totally envious of that. I need a second home in the southern hemisphere for the winter. Peter Jackson tells me New Zealand is nice.

[The_Weirdo]

Not gonna lie, I'm totally envious of that. I need a second home in the southern hemisphere for the winter. Peter Jackson tells me New Zealand is nice.

I feel like I'm being cooked in steam, Peelee, so you might want to temper your wishes there. :smalltongue:

[Peelee]

I feel like I'm being cooked in steam, Peelee, so you might want to temper your wishes there. :smalltongue:

Eh, Brazil's a big place. This looks delightful (https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ACYBGNR1NzH486f3XZyBoxl2NngwyoRmXg%3A 1573318390031&ei=9u7GXcC_Ae-Gggf1qqf4DA&q=rio+de+janeiro+weather&oq=rio+de+weather&gs_l=psy-ab.3.0.0i7i30l10.5786.7149..7720...2.1..0.190.1002 .6j3......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i131i67j0i67j0j0i13j0i8i7i10i30j0i 8i7i30.i8e6AkBn-dk), for instance.

[The_Weirdo]

Eh, Brazil's a big place. This looks delightful (https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ACYBGNR1NzH486f3XZyBoxl2NngwyoRmXg%3A 1573318390031&ei=9u7GXcC_Ae-Gggf1qqf4DA&q=rio+de+janeiro+weather&oq=rio+de+weather&gs_l=psy-ab.3.0.0i7i30l10.5786.7149..7720...2.1..0.190.1002 .6j3......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i131i67j0i67j0j0i13j0i8i7i10i30j0i 8i7i30.i8e6AkBn-dk), for instance.

Rio is just some 300 miles from here. It's currently mild there, if that temperature is accurate, but it sometimes gets to 104 F in the summer.

[Peelee]

Rio is just some 300 miles from here. It's currently mild there, if that temperature is accurate, but it sometimes gets to 104 F in the summer.

Oh, I figured that one was a longshot. I debated checking a city in the north closer to the equator, but why?:smallwink:

And in any event, that doesn't sound too far off from Alabama.

[Psychronia]

It's probably normal that I'm more reassured that Sigdri is watching over Kudzu than the fact that Hilgya is.

No worries, Durkon. Ma is gonna watch over those two like a Beholder. Probably some extra-eye variant kind.

[The_Weirdo]

It's probably normal that I'm more reassured that Sigdri is watching over Kudzu than the fact that Hilgya is.

No worries, Durkon. Ma is gonna watch over those two like a Beholder. Probably some extra-eye variant kind.

Say what you will about Hilgya, but she does care for Kudzu enough to change her plans from burning the clan hall to bankrupting her family for his sake. And if that isn't love, I don't know what love is. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkd3q0KB0H8) :smallbiggrin:

[Emanick]

Say what you will about Hilgya, but she does care for Kudzu enough to change her plans from burning the clan hall to bankrupting her family for his sake. And if that isn't love, I don't know what love is. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkd3q0KB0H8) :smallbiggrin:

I had hopes for what you were linking to, and I was not disappointed.

[Peelee]

I had hopes for what you were linking to, and I was not disappointed.

I was (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HEXWRTEbj1I). Weird Al made up for it though.

[The_Weirdo]

I was (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HEXWRTEbj1I). Weird Al made up for it though.

Try this one. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oavMtUWDBTM) I couldn't resist.


I had hopes for what you were linking to, and I was not disappointed.

Now for another question: do I creep you out? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_U377vst5o)

[deuterio12]

:durkon:"HELLO HIGHEST PRIESTESS OF THE ARCH-NEMESIS OF MY GOD! JUST SAYING THAT IF MY GOD'S DIVINE PLAN ENDS UP WITH DECIDING TO DESTROY THIS WORLD ALONG EVERYBODY ELSE ON IT, GRAB MY CLOSE FAMILY AND RUN FOR IT! K thnx bye!"

Truly Durkon's the most devout follower of Thor, his faith unshakeable, his trust on Thor doing the best for his loved ones so strong that Durkon'll rather pass pass the fate of said loved ones to Thor's greatest foe, the evil god of lies Loki himself.

[Schroeswald]

:durkon:"HELLO HIGHEST PRIESTESS OF THE ARCH-NEMESIS OF MY GOD! JUST SAYING THAT IF MY GOD'S DIVINE PLAN ENDS UP WITH DECIDING TO DESTROY THIS WORLD ALONG EVERYBODY ELSE ON IT, GRAB MY CLOSE FAMILY AND RUN FOR IT! K thnx bye!"

Truly Durkon's the most devout follower of Thor, his faith unshakeable, his trust on Thor doing the best for his loved ones that he'll rather entrust their fate to Thor's greatest foe, the evil god of lies Loki himself.

Who said anything about him being worried about the plan? It wasn't that long ago he explicitly said he was worried about being able to convince Redcloak, and defeating Xykon is also a problem, just because the plan is the best one they have doesn't mean that he can completely trust the Order's ability to execute it.

Hilgya also isn't the highest priestess necessarily? Like there is at least one higher priest, Hilgya is just as much the high priestess of Loki as Durkon is Thor's high priest.

And finally, he isn't trusting in Loki or anything, he's trusting Hilgya specifically, and its not even that much, just enough to save the life of her son and the nearest person when she's saving herself, which is the bare minimum to expect of someone who is a couple of kilonazis better than Xykon (still Evil though, don't anyone dare take this as meaning I think she's CN).
This is a bad idea isn't it? I really shouldn't be doing this, but this horse hasn't quite been turned to dust yet.

[The_Weirdo]

Hilgya pretty much stated that she'd not risk herself and her child to save Sigdi by spending time searching for her in the event of things starting to shake. But she also raised the fair point that Sigdi would be around most or all of the time, which rendered it moot. And so she will save Sigdi in that event.

[HorizonWalker]

:durkon:"HELLO HIGHEST PRIESTESS OF THE ARCH-NEMESIS OF MY GOD! JUST SAYING THAT IF MY GOD'S DIVINE PLAN ENDS UP WITH DECIDING TO DESTROY THIS WORLD ALONG EVERYBODY ELSE ON IT, GRAB MY CLOSE FAMILY AND RUN FOR IT! K thnx bye!"

Truly Durkon's the most devout follower of Thor, his faith unshakeable, his trust on Thor doing the best for his loved ones so strong that Durkon'll rather pass pass the fate of said loved ones to Thor's greatest foe, the evil god of lies Loki himself.

No, Deuterio, Hilgya is not Loki's High Priest. Loki's High Priest is a brown-skinned halfling with black hair, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0998.html) who looks nothing like Hilgya save for being humanoid and short.

[The_Weirdo]

No, Deuterio, Hilgya is not Loki's High Priest. Loki's High Priest is a brown-skinned halfling with black hair, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0998.html) who looks nothing like Hilgya save for being humanoid and short.

I'm humanoid and short too. :smallbiggrin:

[Grey Watcher]

No, Deuterio, Hilgya is not Loki's High Priest. Loki's High Priest is a brown-skinned halfling with black hair, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0998.html) who looks nothing like Hilgya save for being humanoid and short.


I'm humanoid and short too. :smallbiggrin:

You know who else is humanoid and short? The niece of a certain major antagonist of this comic.... :smalltongue:

[The_Weirdo]

You know who else is humanoid and short? The niece of a certain major antagonist of this comic.... :smalltongue:

I'm not Elan's female cousin.

[The Aboleth]

:durkon:"HELLO HIGHEST PRIESTESS OF THE ARCH-NEMESIS OF MY GOD! JUST SAYING THAT IF MY GOD'S DIVINE PLAN ENDS UP WITH DECIDING TO DESTROY THIS WORLD ALONG EVERYBODY ELSE ON IT, GRAB MY CLOSE FAMILY AND RUN FOR IT! K thnx bye!"

Truly Durkon's the most devout follower of Thor, his faith unshakeable, his trust on Thor doing the best for his loved ones so strong that Durkon'll rather pass pass the fate of said loved ones to Thor's greatest foe, the evil god of lies Loki himself.

We're talking about Order of the Stick, not Followers of the Bramble. You're looking for the forum 10 blocks west of here.

[Dr.Zero]

No, Deuterio, Hilgya is not Loki's High Priest. Loki's High Priest is a brown-skinned halfling with black hair, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0998.html) who looks nothing like Hilgya save for being humanoid and short.

To be fair, he said "highest priestess" not "high Priestess", and there is a distinct possibility that H, being at this point close to epic, is effectively the highest (as of the highest level) priestess of Loki. I don't know if that makes sense in english, since I've my own problems with it, but my first interpretation was the one I explained.

[KorvinStarmast]

To be fair, he said "highest priestess" not "high Priestess", Hilgya can't be a high priestess, she didn't have any beer on-screen. (Old slang for being inebriated was High, which of course the stoners appropriated ... and since the conditions are similar, why make up a new word?)

[Ruck]

:durkon:"HELLO HIGHEST PRIESTESS OF THE ARCH-NEMESIS OF MY GOD! JUST SAYING THAT IF MY GOD'S DIVINE PLAN ENDS UP WITH DECIDING TO DESTROY THIS WORLD ALONG EVERYBODY ELSE ON IT, GRAB MY CLOSE FAMILY AND RUN FOR IT! K thnx bye!"

Truly Durkon's the most devout follower of Thor, his faith unshakeable, his trust on Thor doing the best for his loved ones so strong that Durkon'll rather pass pass the fate of said loved ones to Thor's greatest foe, the evil god of lies Loki himself.

Once again, you should try reading the actual comic instead of the imaginary version you've invented to complain about.

[Petrocorus]

To be fair, he said "highest priestess" not "high Priestess", and there is a distinct possibility that H, being at this point close to epic, is effectively the highest (as of the highest level) priestess of Loki. I don't know if that makes sense in english, since I've my own problems with it, but my first interpretation was the one I explained.

Do we know this?
The Class Geekery thread put her at level 14+. We know she's 15 at least now because she cast Resurrection.
But that's still not near-epic. And we don't know the level of the High Priest of Loki.

[Schroeswald]

Do we know this?
The Class Geekery thread put her at level 14+. We know she's 15 at least now because she cast Resurrection.
But that's still not near-epic. And we don't know the level of the High Priest of Loki.

I mean I agree with this, but Resurrection is 7th level so she can still cast it at level 14.

[Ruck]

Do we know this?

No, that's another Followers of the Bramble fact.

[Petrocorus]

I mean I agree with this, but Resurrection is 7th level so she can still cast it at level 14.

Oopsie. My mistake.
So she may only be 14+ indeed.

[The MunchKING]

Do we know this?

That depends on how you define "near-epic". Level 15 is closer to epic than 15 other levels, so it's somewhat close...

[Sir_Galliant]

How about we describe 'near epic' as a value of levels which if rounded to have 1 significant figure properly would be 20. So 14 isn't, but 15-19 is. 20+ obviously IS epic

[The MunchKING]

Technically 20 isn't epic YET, and rounds to itself.

[The_Weirdo]

Technically 20 isn't epic YET, and rounds to itself.

Everything rounds to itself if you use the correct base.

[Peelee]

How about we describe 'near epic' as a value of levels which if rounded to have 1 significant figure properly would be 20. So 14 isn't, but 15-19 is. 20+ obviously IS epic

Near Epic is level 25+:smallamused:

[Dr.Zero]

Do we know this?
The Class Geekery thread put her at level 14+. We know she's 15 at least now because she cast Resurrection.
But that's still not near-epic. And we don't know the level of the High Priest of Loki.

No, we don't know how much close to epic she is, actually.
Nonetheless since at the time of Sigdi afair the church of Thor had not a priest able to cast regeneration (therefore not even the HP), one might argue about the fact that either at the time of Sigdi the church of Thor sucked badly and then hit a golden age, or H even at level 14-15 as good chances to be higher than Rubyrock.

But that doesn't answer to your fair point, that is about my assumption around her level.

So let me tell you a story: years ago, when the gang started to move toward Firmament, I said[1] H was going to return in the comic and that her level would have been the same of Durkon+, for the archnemesis rule.
Of course my theory was bashed. She had no reason to be back, and surely enough she didn't level up so much of her own[2]. Mine was a very silly theory, and I couldn't use the archnemesis rule, which was mostly a joke, like that.

Go and figure who was right.

So, till proved wrong, I assume the archnemesis rule was indeed working, and H had at least as many level as D before being killed, and she is around the same level of V and the others.


[1] To be totally fair, I was maybe the second one, still afair, to propose that. But I'd say I was the most adamantine about that happening. (Edit: to clarify why I call it "my theory", nonetheless I think I was the first and, more importantly, only one to claim that she was going to be of the same level of the gang, thanks to the archnemesis rule, so that, indeed, was my theory).
[2] To be totally fair, I replied that then she could have her own group at that point, which didn't happen.

[The Aboleth]

No, we don't know how much close to epic she is, actually.
Nonetheless since at the time of Sigdi afair the church of Thor had not a priest able to cast regeneration (therefore not even the HP), one might argue about the fact that either at the time of Sigdi the church of Thor sucked badly and then hit a golden age, or H even at level 14-15 as good chances to be higher than Rubyrock.


While it's true that in #983 Sigdi says that "among us dwarves, only the high priest of Odin has that kind of magic [to Regenerate my arm]"* I think in light of #1184's info we should read that not as a definitive "The Church of Thor has nobody capable" but instead as another of Sigdi's excuses to not get her arm back. That's actually how I initially read the scene in #983, so maybe there is some confirmation bias here, but I still think #1184 backs up that interpretation.

*I am not translating Sigdi's accent because I'm on mobile at the moment and that would take too long, but the quote is accurate otherwise

[Peelee]

While it's true that in #983 Sigdi says that "among us dwarves, only the high priest of Odin has that kind of magic [to Regenerate my arm]"* I think in light of #1184's info we should read that not as a definitive "The Church of Thor has nobody capable" but instead as another of Sigdi's excuses to not get her arm back. That's actually how I initially read the scene in #983, so maybe there is some confirmation bias here, but I still think #1184 backs up that interpretation.

*I am not translating Sigdi's accent because I'm on mobile at the moment and that would take too long, but the quote is accurate otherwise

Or the high priest of Odin lived among the dwarves and the high priest of Thor (or any other god popular among the dwarves) did not, and may not have been a dwarf at all.

[Lord Torath]

Rio is just some 300 miles from here. It's currently mild there, if that temperature is accurate, but it sometimes gets to 104 F in the summer.Do you regularly use miles and Fahrenheit down in Brazil, or were you just translating for us backward rubes? :smallwink:

[The Aboleth]

Or the high priest of Odin lived among the dwarves and the high priest of Thor (or any other god popular among the dwarves) did not, and may not have been a dwarf at all.

Exactly, or this. In any case, I find it highly unlikely that there is only ONE Dwarf in ALL Dwarvenkind capable of casting a 7th level Cleric spell. It's far more likely that either Sigdi was wrong, Sigdi was making up an excuse to her young son, or that any other Dwarf or non-Dwarf Cleric was (in)conveniently unavailable to cast such a spell for them for whatever reason.

[Peelee]

Exactly, or this. In any case, I find it highly unlikely that there is only ONE Dwarf in ALL Dwarvenkind capable of casting a 7th level Cleric spell. It's far more likely that either Sigdi was wrong, Sigdi was making up an excuse to her young son, or that any other Dwarf or non-Dwarf Cleric was (in)conveniently unavailable to cast such a spell for them for whatever reason.

I agree she was saying that to placate her son, but I doubt she was really making up an excuse; she couldn't pay for the casting in any event. It'd be like someone seeing my hybrid and asking why I don't drive an F-450. I may just say, "well, I can't afford that," which is true enough even though I wouldn't be getting one regardless. Since if I had the money, I'd be getting full electric.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Not having WIS 17 is the most likely hurdle.

[The_Weirdo]

Do you regularly use miles and Fahrenheit down in Brazil, or were you just translating for us backward rubes? :smallwink:

We use the metric system here, but, then, I am a translator, which is among the very few things I'm Lawful Good about.

[Doug Lampert]

How about we describe 'near epic' as a value of levels which if rounded to have 1 significant figure properly would be 20. So 14 isn't, but 15-19 is. 20+ obviously IS epic

Near Epic is level 17+ whenever I see it. 9th level spells are a big deal and come on line 4 levels prior to epic.

And Hilgya only needs to be level 13 to cast a level 7 spell.

[Dr.Zero]

Exactly, or this. In any case, I find it highly unlikely that there is only ONE Dwarf in ALL Dwarvenkind capable of casting a 7th level Cleric spell.

Which, nonetheless is exactly what she says.
Which is kinda coherent with what Quarr points out, about reaching level 10 being extremely rare for a wizard. I see no reason at all for it to be less rare for a cleric.


Or the high priest of Odin lived among the dwarves and the high priest of Thor (or any other god popular among the dwarves) did not, and may not have been a dwarf at all.

Well, yes, we might assume that, even if little D explicitly talks generally of the clerics of Thor, S replies limiting that to only the dwarves, because clerics of Thor are terribly racist and wouldn't cure a dwarf.
And we might assume that the fact that both the times we have seen a HP of Thor it was a dwarf -at least afair- is just a coincidence.

Or we might assume that "among us dwarves" in answer to the "clerics of Thor" was just to underline that no one, not even the church of Loki, or Freya, or not even the second in command at the church of Odin, was able to cast that spell, aside the HP of Odin.

Weight the likeliness of the assumptions, and take the stance you like more.

[Fyraltari]

Well, yes, we might assume that, even if little D explicitly talks generally of the clerics of Thor, S replies limiting that to only the dwarves, because clerics of Thor are terribly racist and wouldn't cure a dwarf.
Or, you know, that they don't know any non-dwarfs since they are dwarfs living in a dwarven city in the dawrven Lands.

And we might assume that the fact that both the times we have seen a HP of Thor it was a dwarf -at least afair- is just a coincidence.
More likely that it was the author needing the high priest to have the key to the temple of Durkon's hometown.


Or we might assume that "among us dwarves" in answer to the "clerics of Thor" was just to underline that no one, not even the church of Loki, or Freya, or not even the second in command at the church of Odin, was able to cast that spell, aside the HP of Odin.

There is no church of Loki in the Dwarven Lands and I don't know where "second in command" comes from.

[Petrocorus]

So let me tell you a story: years ago, .... same level of V and the others.


I don't know if i was there, it does ring a bell. The assumption that Hilgya would be back was quite a bold and unexpected one at the time.

OTOH, given that Hilgya was explicitly Durkon's counterpart in the original Linear Guild, using the archnemesis rule was a fair assumption IMHO.
And given that she able to cast 7th level spell like him and to kill a 14th Durkon with a single Flame Strike, she probably indeed is at the same level that Durkon before his deaths.

Actually, i'm quite interested in the numbers about this Flame Strike. I know the Giant is not paying a lot of attention to this and that Hilgya perfoming to kill Durkon is plot-based, but i looked at the numbers nonetheless.
Durkon was at least level 14 after his resurrection.
Assuming average Con for a dwarf (ie 12 at least) and 5 HP per D8 HD beyond first level that means (9 + 13 x 6 ) = 87 HP.
Flame Strike can do a maximum of (15 x 6 ) = 90 damages.

[Dr.Zero]

Or, you know, that they don't know any non-dwarfs since they are dwarfs living in a dwarven city in the dawrven Lands.

More likely that it was the author needing the high priest to have the key to the temple of Durkon's hometown.


Yes, of course you might create infinite assumptions, more and more unlikely or fitting the hole ad hoc. Nonetheless, their sum[1] will be still finite. (Sad news for fans of Zeno, here)

That's why I said, weight them and take your stance.




There is no church of Loki in the Dwarven Lands and I don't know where "second in command" comes from.

The second cleric in command of the diocesis when the HP is on a trip, maybe?



OTOH, given that Hilgya was explicitly Durkon's counterpart in the original Linear Guild, using the archnemesis rule was a fair assumption IMHO.


I wish you were here, at the time. Someone stating that would have made me feel less alone. :D

[1] Edit, because I know someone might point out that the sum of the number of assumption will be infinite. It was a mistake. Read it as : "The sum of their probabilities" (and technically that is more the "probability of their union", but that doesn''t have the same punch).

[Doug Lampert]

I don't know if i was there, it does ring a bell. The assumption that Hilgya would be back was quite a bold and unexpected one at the time.

OTOH, given that Hilgya was explicitly Durkon's counterpart in the original Linear Guild, using the archnemesis rule was a fair assumption IMHO.
And given that she able to cast 7th level spell like him and to kill a 14th Durkon with a single Flame Strike, she probably indeed is at the same level that Durkon before his deaths.

Actually, i'm quite interested in the numbers about this Flame Strike. I know the Giant is not paying a lot of attention to this and that Hilgya perfoming to kill Durkon is plot-based, but i looked at the numbers nonetheless.
Durkon was at least level 14 after his resurrection.
Assuming average Con for a dwarf (ie 12 at least) and 5 HP per D8 HD beyond first level that means (9 + 13 x 6 ) = 87 HP.
Flame Strike can do a maximum of (15 x 6 ) = 90 damages.

Remember that she can do it if she hits 50 damage regardless of Durkon's HP if Death by Massive Damage is used (and it is part of the 3.5 default SRD rule set). Anyone can roll a 1.

[Anitar]

Remember that she can do it if she hits 50 damage regardless of Durkon's HP if Death by Massive Damage is used (and it is part of the 3.5 default SRD rule set). Anyone can roll a 1.

Remember that she didn't react as though killing him was even slightly unexpected. For it to rely on a particularly bad roll on Durkon's part wouldn't make sense.

[Doug Lampert]

Remember that she didn't react as though killing him was even slightly unexpected. For it to rely on a particularly bad roll on Durkon's part wouldn't make sense.

For Hilgya's reaction to matter, I'd have to assume that her reactions are sane.

This strikes me as assuming something not in evidence.

[Fyraltari]

Remember that she didn't react as though killing him was even slightly unexpected. For it to rely on a particularly bad roll on Durkon's part wouldn't make sense.

She wouldn't know Durkon's exact level though.

[bunsen_h]

She wouldn't know Durkon's exact level though.

It sure looks like she has regarded him as her archnemesis. So, assuming she knew about that "rule", she would expect him to be at the same level as she was.

[mjasghar]

My impression of that amongst us dwarves comment was that she was talking about the highest priest of that god among the dwarves - not The High Priest (Boss of all priests of Odin in stickverse) but rather the boss of the dwarven priests of Odin
It’s likely that the honourable death attitude means that dwarven priests tend to to only level up so far before dying - it’s likely in such a society they would focus less on self healing and protection prayers
Meanwhile Durkon had a mission to both adventure but also stay alive to return home

[F.Harr]

SO funny! I needed that. :)