Blaster Rogue character concept, seeking some input

[Degwerks]

I've been thinking of a character for the Baldur's Gate campaign, using a Warlock 2-3 levels and the rest in The Revived Rogue.

I haven't decided on a race for sure, but any book other than Ravnica is allowed, and I'm not decided on what type of Warlock or Pact either.

The concept is to be really, really good at Persuasion, Deception, Insight and Perception. Eventually I won't need to eat/drink/breathe or sleep, which will be handy if I'm in Hell and can't find a decent Tavern etc... Uncanny Dodge/Evasion will be useful to help stay alive and I'll still have up to 3 ASI's from Rogue. We roll for stats but I'm just in Theorycrafting mode right now.

Combat will be mainly using Hex as my bonus action, then casting Eldritch Blast during my 1st turn. 2nd turn will be staying within 30ft and using my Cunning Action Bolts of the Grave and Eldritch Blast for my Action, continuing until I'm dead or the enemies are. Eventually getting up to 3 Eldritch Blasts by level 13 and 5-6d6 Bolts of the Grave on my turns, if I've got Hex up then I'll have an additional 4d6 damage to add on.

The only resource I'll even use up is 2 Hex spells, which are short rest replenishment anyway. I should be really good at dealing with negotiations or putting out some consistent ranged damage.

Race choices are probably Half-Elf, Kalashtar, Tabaxi, Variant Tiefling or Variant Human if I roll good stats, and maybe an Eladrin or something. Can still carry a silvered or magic melee weapon or sling in case somebody is immune to my spell attack routine.

I might even get Elven Accuracy or the Healer feat. I'm trying to be travel light, resourceful and talk/con my way out of trouble.

Patron wise I can't think of what would be the best fit. Celestial will be useful for a bit of healing, Hexblade would be good to get a shield to wear, Fiend would be a reason why I'd even go to Avernus, Undying would kinda tie in but seems meh, I really wish the Raven Queen patron would have made it into D&D Beyond though.

I can't decide if 11 levels of Rogue would be worth the 1d6 SA and Reliable Talent VS. 2nd level spell slots, more spells known & a Warlock Pact though.

[8wGremlin]

Will you be allowed the winged version of the Tiefling?
Is so take it, blasting at range as you dash about the sky is good.
As a Revived you'll need both high dexterity and high charisma for the combat you've outlined.
Which pact are you thinking of taking?

[Arkhios]

Why not the Fallen Aasimar? Why make the most obvious choice for a sinister character (tiefling) when you could do the exact opposite (aasimar fallen from grace).

[Citadel97501]

I am glad to see someone else is looking at this combination :)

Are you going to be using the new class features from Unearthed Arcana as well? I personally think that this build and the classic Half Elf: Elven Accuracy gets a nice boon from Cunning Action: Aim, and the Invocation: Eldritch Mind which would be available by level 5 (3 rogue, 2 warlock) which would allow you to easily pass most Concentration checks for your Hex spell.

Basically, your sacrificing your movement to roll 3d20's to generate critical hits with your Bolts from the Grave. Going from 5% to 12% crits is pretty damn nice, and I think it is worth it even without going Hex Blade for critical hits on 19's which would massively improve this to 27%.

Other than that path, your other racial choices sound good to me :)

[Daithi]

If you are going Hexblade, then one race option you might consider is the warforged envoy. He gets some really good AC and this is especially true if your carrying a shield and also have the shield spell. Your weapon really doesn't matter that much since you will be using EB nearly all the time anyway. In fact, there is some merit in just using a rod as your weapon with the intention of picking up Rod of the Pack Keeper at some point.

Edit: I've never played a warlock without a couple levels of sorcerer. Doubling the number of EB bolts is kind of a big deal.

[Degwerks]

If you are going Hexblade, then one race option you might consider is the warforged envoy. He gets some really good AC and this is especially true if your carrying a shield and also have the shield spell. Your weapon really doesn't matter that much since you will be using EB nearly all the time anyway. In fact, there is some merit in just using a rod as your weapon with the intention of picking up Rod of the Pack Keeper at some point.

Edit: I've never played a warlock without a couple levels of sorcerer. Doubling the number of EB bolts is kind of a big deal.

My last character was an Envoy, looking for something different.

Using Sorcerer for Quicken Spell will eliminate the Cunning Action Bolts of the Grave attacks.

[Degwerks]

I am glad to see someone else is looking at this combination :)

Are you going to be using the new class features from Unearthed Arcana as well? I personally think that this build and the classic Half Elf: Elven Accuracy gets a nice boon from Cunning Action: Aim, and the Invocation: Eldritch Mind which would be available by level 5 (3 rogue, 2 warlock) which would allow you to easily pass most Concentration checks for your Hex spell.

Basically, your sacrificing your movement to roll 3d20's to generate critical hits with your Bolts from the Grave. Going from 5% to 12% crits is pretty damn nice, and I think it is worth it even without going Hex Blade for critical hits on 19's which would massively improve this to 27%.

Other than that path, your other racial choices sound good to me :)

Yeah if the new UA features make it into D&D Beyond then I'll use that new Rogue Aim feature. I'm hoping my rolled stats, if I go ahead with this character are good enough that I'm able to pick up Elven Accuracy if I'm an elf.

Still not decided 100% on Race/Patron or potential Pact, only have 1 choice for sure on invocations: Agonizing Blast

[Misterwhisper]

If you want to essentially play the new undead rogue just play a warforged.

When it comes to rogue/warlock, it is very hard to beat the hex blade swashbuckler.

Bonus proficiencies
Charisma to hit and damage, and initiative and later taunting
Agonizing blast for when you are not in melee yet.

A ton of synergy there.

[Citadel97501]

If you want to essentially play the new undead rogue just play a warforged.

When it comes to rogue/warlock, it is very hard to beat the hex blade swashbuckler.

Bonus proficiencies
Charisma to hit and damage, and initiative and later taunting
Agonizing blast for when you are not in melee yet.

A ton of synergy there.

This seems to leave out the fact that you can't use Sneak Attack with Eldritch Blast, also if you miss with your attacks then you get another chance to add that damage. I would also stipulate that adding a blast of death towards an enemy every turn after you want to use your cunning action to hide (advantage?), or dash (winged tiefling?).

Oh and using your bonus action to hide then blast, then roll to hide again with your main action is an extremely powerful defense with acceptable damage as well.

[Misterwhisper]

This seems to leave out the fact that you can't use Sneak Attack with Eldritch Blast, also if you miss with your attacks then you get another chance to add that damage. I would also stipulate that adding a blast of death towards an enemy every turn after you want to use your cunning action to hide (advantage?), or dash (winged tiefling?).

Oh and using your bonus action to hide then blast, then roll to hide again with your main action is an extremely powerful defense with acceptable damage as well.

There is zero chance that bolt ever sees print.

[Arkhios]

There is zero chance that bolt ever sees print.

And we should trust in your judgment, because...? :smallamused:

I mean, come on. Sun Soul deals radiant damage equal to their Martial Arts die. I really don't see why this particular energy bolt couldn't see print.

[Hytheter]

And we should trust in your judgment, because...? :smallamused:

I mean, come on. Sun Soul deals radiant damage equal to their Martial Arts die. I really don't see why this particular energy bolt couldn't see print.

Sun Soul attack still takes an action and replaces attacking normally. It basically just turns your punches into a ranged attack.

The Revived's bolts are basically free. You just have to use your cunning action, which you were probably going to do anyway, and then you have your whole main action open to do whatever you like. Such as ready an attack for extra sneak attacks. It just has unreasonably good action economy.

[stoutstien]

Sun Soul attack still takes an action and replaces attacking normally. It basically just turns your punches into a ranged attack.

The Revived's bolts are basically free. You just have to use your cunning action, which you were probably going to do anyway, and then you have your whole main action open to do whatever you like. Such as ready an attack for extra sneak attacks. It just has unreasonably good action economy.

I could see it printed as an additional cunning action option or even as action. Still a strong option.

[Citadel97501]

There is nothing wrong with the Bolts from the grave, mechanically it is on par with the other good rogue sub class DPS abilities. I am getting very irritated with the continued bad mouthing of a solid mechanic and the continued Monk's are fine crap. At the absolute most I could see it having its damage reduced a bit more perhaps to d4's but even that seems just an over nerf for a single attack based class.

I do like the idea of making it a cunning action upgrade for the sub-class though as that would make the ability less likely to be abused.

[Misterwhisper]

There is nothing wrong with the Bolts from the grave, mechanically it is on par with the other good rogue sub class DPS abilities. I am getting very irritated with the continued bad mouthing of a solid mechanic and the continued Monk's are fine crap. At the absolute most I could see it having its damage reduced a bit more perhaps to d4's but even that seems just an over nerf for a single attack based class.

I do like the idea of making it a cunning action upgrade for the sub-class though as that would make the ability less likely to be abused.

Bolt from the grave is:

Just a free tack on to another action
Allows you to do your main damage as a bonus action instead of normal action
Has no requirements to do the damage Or limited uses
Does not need advantage or ally in range to sneak attack
Is a spell attack that still uses dexterity
Gets full stat to damage
Is usable at range


Why would anyone bother to sneak attack with a weapon anymore?

You could:

Bonus action disengage, free bolt sneak attack, then just use dodge.
You lose no damage really but get a full action anyway.

Bonus action hide, free bolt, ready action attack on their turn.

It is just like Hexblade, it is so overpowered there is almost no reason to be anything else.

[Citadel97501]

Bolt from the grave is:

Just a free tack on to another action
Allows you to do your main damage as a bonus action instead of normal action
Has no requirements to do the damage Or limited uses
Does not need advantage or ally in range to sneak attack
Is a spell attack that still uses dexterity
Gets full stat to damage
Is usable at range

Why would anyone bother to sneak attack with a weapon anymore?

You could:

Bonus action disengage, free bolt sneak attack, then just use dodge.
You lose no damage really but get a full action anyway.

Bonus action hide, free bolt, ready action attack on their turn.

It is just like Hexblade, it is so overpowered there is almost no reason to be anything else.

Sorry to derail the OP's thread, but I need to deal with this now. There are a number of issues with your assumptions.

1) You don't add Dexterity to the damage from Bolts from the Grave, spell attacks don't unless they specifically say they do. Which off hand I can't think of one that does. You also don't add damage from the weapon attack that a normal sneak attack uses. It should also be noted that there are a number of monsters with resistance/immunity to Necrotic damage, or who give you disadvantage to hit them with spell attacks.

2A) Disengage as Cunning Action: You still have disadvantage as your in melee range of your target. The attack is immediately after your cunning action, so no movement yet.

2B) Hide as Cunning Action: This immediately reveals you as your attacking from stealth which at most basically just gives you advantage on your BoG attack, and that is if your ST lets you go back into hiding within 30' of your target.

2C) Dash as Cunning Action: This is a bit better than the other two but you have to stay within 30' of your target so he is still closing with you.

2D) UA Variant Aim as Cunning Action: This is once again a problem as it limits your options pretty heavily by making your speed 0.

3) Hex Blade is over powered due to charisma being a great stat for multi-classing, and all of its benefits being immediately gained at 1st level. The rest of Warlock is kind of meh mechanically and most of its sub-classes are bottom tier. Undying Rogue doesn't even work until 3 levels of rogue which is not an insignificant dip into that class.

4) 30' of range isn't much, so compare it to the hand crossbow. Similar range, and to be honest not that viable unless your using multiple feats to get more benefits. Sharpshooter & Crossbow Expert are the usual culprits from what I remember.

5) Readying your action for an out of turn Sneak attack isn't really a problem with BoG its due to that someone screwed up originally by letting out of turn attacks trigger sneak attack damage. This was not thought out well by the original designers.

[stoutstien]

Sorry to derail the OP's thread, but I need to deal with this now. There are a number of issues with your assumptions.

1) You don't add Dexterity to the damage from Bolts from the Grave, spell attacks don't unless they specifically say they do. Which off hand I can't think of one that does. You also don't add damage from the weapon attack that a normal sneak attack uses. It should also be noted that there are a number of monsters with resistance/immunity to Necrotic damage, or who give you disadvantage to hit them with spell attacks.

2A) Disengage as Cunning Action: You still have disadvantage as your in melee range of your target. The attack is immediately after your cunning action, so no movement yet.

2B) Hide as Cunning Action: This immediately reveals you as your attacking from stealth which at most basically just gives you advantage on your BoG attack, and that is if your ST lets you go back into hiding within 30' of your target.

2C) Dash as Cunning Action: This is a bit better than the other two but you have to stay within 30' of your target so he is still closing with you.

2D) UA Variant Aim as Cunning Action: This is once again a problem as it limits your options pretty heavily by making your speed 0.

3) Hex Blade is over powered due to charisma being a great stat for multi-classing, and all of its benefits being immediately gained at 1st level. The rest of Warlock is kind of meh mechanically and most of its sub-classes are bottom tier. Undying Rogue doesn't even work until 3 levels of rogue which is not an insignificant dip into that class.

4) 30' of range isn't much, so compare it to the hand crossbow. Similar range, and to be honest not that viable unless your using multiple feats to get more benefits. Sharpshooter & Crossbow Expert are the usual culprits from what I remember.

5) Readying your action for an out of turn Sneak attack isn't really a problem with BoG its due to that someone screwed up originally by letting out of turn attacks trigger sneak attack damage. This was not thought out well by the original designers.

Small correction, the bolt does add Dex mod to damage and attack rolls.

[Misterwhisper]

Sorry to derail the OP's thread, but I need to deal with this now. There are a number of issues with your assumptions.

1) You don't add Dexterity to the damage from Bolts from the Grave, spell attacks don't unless they specifically say they do. Which off hand I can't think of one that does. You also don't add damage from the weapon attack that a normal sneak attack uses. It should also be noted that there are a number of monsters with resistance/immunity to Necrotic damage, or who give you disadvantage to hit them with spell attacks.

2A) Disengage as Cunning Action: You still have disadvantage as your in melee range of your target. The attack is immediately after your cunning action, so no movement yet.

2B) Hide as Cunning Action: This immediately reveals you as your attacking from stealth which at most basically just gives you advantage on your BoG attack, and that is if your ST lets you go back into hiding within 30' of your target.

2C) Dash as Cunning Action: This is a bit better than the other two but you have to stay within 30' of your target so he is still closing with you.

2D) UA Variant Aim as Cunning Action: This is once again a problem as it limits your options pretty heavily by making your speed 0.

3) Hex Blade is over powered due to charisma being a great stat for multi-classing, and all of its benefits being immediately gained at 1st level. The rest of Warlock is kind of meh mechanically and most of its sub-classes are bottom tier. Undying Rogue doesn't even work until 3 levels of rogue which is not an insignificant dip into that class.

4) 30' of range isn't much, so compare it to the hand crossbow. Similar range, and to be honest not that viable unless your using multiple feats to get more benefits. Sharpshooter & Crossbow Expert are the usual culprits from what I remember.

5) Readying your action for an out of turn Sneak attack isn't really a problem with BoG its due to that someone screwed up originally by letting out of turn attacks trigger sneak attack damage. This was not thought out well by the original designers.


1. Yes you do, read the us.

2a. Movement is not an action and can come at any time even between parts of an action like multiple attacks

2b. Instant almost free hide for advantage is not nothing, also you have not used your action so move and hide again. If your dmd does not let you hide within 30 ft of the target that is a house rule problem.

2c. With that much movement being in 30 ft is easy. Also you still have your full normal action. Just hide, dodge, or disengage.

2d. Why bother with aim if you can sneak attack without it? You could just hide and hit them. The only way this is useful is if you are hitting different targets with different ranges.

3. Hexblade is overpowered because there is no reason for a warlock to be anything else just as warlocks, it actively makes them worse as a class because you get everything at 1 and maybe 2 that there is no reason to ever go more than warlock 2.

4. Your argument is that it isn’t much but then point out that it does the same thing as CBE but without needing a feat, or even a weapon at all. It is the only way a rogue can get sneak attack with unarmed or armed with the wrong kind of weapon, and it does it for free.

5. Yes it is a problem because nobody else can do that without being buffed with something like haste, again bolt gets it free and at level 3.

[Degwerks]

Which concept would be better off for dps?

The eldritch blast/cunning action bolts of the grave routine?

Or

Using bolts of the grave 1st, then readying my action to make an attack on someone else's turn with a weapon to get multiple sneak attack damage per round?

[Talionis]

Magic Stones is an option if you use a sling, it will target with your Charisma and it can transfer sneak attack damage. At some point you may have higher sneak attack damage than Eldritch Blast. Either way it gives you decent options.