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Saph
2007-10-18, 11:06 AM
Dragon Disciple is the weirdest PrC in the core books. It gives you extra spells per day, but doesn't advance your spellcasting, so it's not a caster class. It gives you a d12 HD, but doesn't give full BAB, so it's not a straight fighter class. It has a good skill list, but only gives 2 skill points per level, so it's not a skill-monkey class. And it turns you into a half-dragon at level 10, but without giving you a level adjustment or anything.

However, I always felt that there must be something good you could do with it, so I tried to think of how you could make a decent character out of a Dragon Disciple.

Here's the end result I came up with:

Books required: Core, Complete Series, PHB II.
Point buy 28, adjust as desired.

Human Wolf Totem Barbarian 2 / Duskblade 3 / Dragon Disciple 10 / Abjurant Champion 5.

Starting Stats

Strength: 16
Dexterity: 14
Constitution: 14
Intelligence: 12
Wisdom: 10
Charisma: 8

Spells: True Strike, Resist Energy, Shocking Grasp, Ray of Enfeeblement, then whatever you want if you ever get to level 16 and start taking Abjurant Champion levels.
Feats: Improved Trip (from Wolf Totem Barbarian), Combat Casting (from Duskblade), Extra Rage (1st), Power Attack (1st), Knockdown (3rd), Practised Spellcaster (6th), whatever you want from level 9 up.
Equipment: Mithral chain shirt, a couple dozen potions of Enlarge Person (or some other way to get the spell), two-handed weapon and stat-boosting items of your choice, animated shield if you get to high enough level.

Your saves are decent due to the multiclassing. You move at a speed of 40, so you can get to the front line fast. Your BAB is 17 out of 20, and this is largely made up for by the +8 Strength you get from Dragon Disciple. Each time you hit something and do 10 or more damage (which is pretty much always) you get to try to trip them, which you'll very often succeed at due to your huge Strength score, your Improved Trip feat, and the size bonus from Enlarge Person if you have time to activate it. You get three rages a day to help out your tankiness further, and you have only 6 less average HP than a straight-classed Barbarian.

However, unlike a normal tank, you have a whole lot of other options. You can use the bonus spell slots you get from Dragon Disciple to power your spells, letting you do an extra 5d6 electricity damage on a melee attack with Shocking Grasp, or get energy resistance 20 for over an hour with Resist Energy. You can use detect magic and your decent Spellcraft skill to serve as a stand-in arcanist and identifier. You get blindsense and eventually flight and various stat boosts over the 10 levels of Dragon Disciple. And you have claws, bite, and a breath weapon, just for fun.

So, what do you think? Best way to use Dragon Disciple, or can anybody come up with something better?

- Saph

Drglenn
2007-10-18, 11:47 AM
In epic levels BAB doesn't matter so (if you just use core books) you could get barbarian level 20, then get bard 10 and dragon disciple to 10. This would be best if you are a race with barbarian favored class the you won't be taking XP penalties (human, half-elf, half-orc etc.). This would give you high BAB and HP.

Or if you want a relatively low level character go for a straight bard/DD, you won't have as high BAB as a straight combat class (fighter/barbarian/paladin/ranger) but you should (if you build right) have higher STR which should even it out slightly, also you'll have spells to distract enemies and cure/buff allies/self

Lvl 40 example:
Human Barbarian 20/Bard 10/Dragon Disciple 10
Staring stats (28 point buy):
Str 16
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 11
Wis 10
Cha 13

Improved Stats (inc level increases+DD increases):
Str 24
Dex 16
Con 18
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 16

Feats (15):Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Weapon Focus (greataxe), Toughness, Run, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Combat Expertise, Whirlwind Attack, Terrifying Rage, Improved Critical (Greataxe), Overwhelming Critical (Greataxe)

Spells: 0:Detect Magic, Light, Lullaby, Read Magic, Prestidigation, Ghost Sound
1:Cure Light Wounds, Feather Fall, Silent Image, Expeditious Retreat
2: Cure Moderate Wounds, Minor Image, Mirror Image, Rage
3: Cure Serious Wounds, Dispel magic, Haste, Good hope
4: Cure Critical Wounds, Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility, Shout

BAB: +30 (attack bonus with Greataxe +38 + bonuses (Magic, rage etc.)
Saves: Fort +27, Ref +20, Will +17

Level 15 Example
Human Bard 5/Dragon Disciple 10
Staring stats (28 point buy):
Str 16
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 11
Wis 10
Cha 13

Improved Stats (inc level increases+DD increases):
Str 24
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 15

Feats (7): Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Dodge, Weapon Focus (???), Improved Critical (???), Combat Expertise

Spells: 0:Detect Magic, Light, Lullaby, Read Magic, Prestidigation, Ghost Sound
1:Cure Light Wounds, Feather Fall, Silent Image, Expeditious Retreat
2: Cure Moderate Wounds, Minor Image, Rage

BAB: +10 (Attack bonus with ???? +18 + bonuses (Magic etc.)
Saves:Fort +10, Ref +9, Will +11

Rogue 7
2007-10-18, 11:51 AM
I'm going to start an Ebberon campaign that's level 8. I'm playing a Sorc 6/ DD 2. The d12 hit die are very nice for a sorcerer who previously only had d4 HD. Couple that with the bonus natural AC, and bonus spells, and I'm a bit tougher while still having pretty good spells due to the 2 bonus ones you get at 1 and 2.

cupkeyk
2007-10-18, 11:59 AM
Do I need to use all ten levels? I think DD is mostly a four level dip at most for battle field control type melee fighters.

Rad
2007-10-18, 11:59 AM
I'm going to start an Ebberon campaign that's level 8. I'm playing a Sorc 6/ DD 2. The d12 hit die are very nice for a sorcerer who previously only had d4 HD. Couple that with the bonus natural AC, and bonus spells, and I'm a bit tougher while still having pretty good spells due to the 2 bonus ones you get at 1 and 2.

I don't think that those two spells will leave you a good spellcaster...

Saph
2007-10-18, 12:12 PM
In epic levels BAB doesn't matter so (if you just use core books) you could get barbarian level 20, then get bard 10 and dragon disciple to 10. This would be best if you are a race with barbarian favored class the you won't be taking XP penalties (human, half-elf, half-orc etc.). This would give you high BAB and HP.

Honestly, at epic levels D&D's balance is so whacked-out there's no point trying to compare anymore, with monsters that do thousands of points of damage on a full attack and spellcasters that can kill them with a swift action. You might as well just play freeform.


Do I need to use all ten levels? I think DD is mostly a four level dip at most for battle field control type melee fighters.

Well, this is the 'Try to find a use for something that looks useless' game, so the more levels the better.

Anyway, the capstone ability is quite nice.

- Saph

Thrawn183
2007-10-18, 12:17 PM
I figure it'd be pretty good for one side of a gestalt character. Get some kind of full casting on one side and then use Dragon Disciple to improve your melee-ness a bit. Works particularly well with Hexblade/Dragon Disciple//Sorceror or //Favored Soul

F.L.
2007-10-18, 12:18 PM
If you're interested in actual spellcasting, can you use the sanctum spell/earth spell/heighten spell trick to raise the bonus spells you get to a higher level?

e.g. have lv 3 spells entering DD from sorc 6.
DD1 Get a l. 4 slot
DD2 Get a l. 5 slot
DD4 Get a l. 6 slot
...

Edit: Ah, just realized, even if you got away with this cheese, these bonus spells are like if you have a high ability score, so you wouldn't know any additional spells over what you had before. You could only use the slots for metamagic, and that's not good. Maybe Sorc 1 Wiz 5 DD 10?...
Or Cleric 5 Sorc 1 GoldDD 10 Wonderworker 3?

Jasdoif
2007-10-18, 01:31 PM
It gives you a d12 HD, but doesn't give full BAB, so it's not a straight fighter class....And it turns you into a half-dragon at level 10, but without giving you a level adjustment or anything.These two points make for an interesting perspective.

Half-dragon has a +3 LA. So compare a Dragon Disciple 10, with a half-dragon Fighter 7.

Both get +7 BAB. If the Dragon Disciple started with 10 Int and ended up with 12 (and the half-dragon has 12 all along), the DD gets 22 skill points while the half-dragon gets 21. The DD's base Fort save goes up +7, while the half-dragon's is +5. Reflex, similarly, increases by +3 for the DD and +2 for the half-dragon. The DD gets 60-foot blindsense, while the half-dragon has low-light vision.

It kinda breaks from there...If they both end up with 12 Con (which is unlikely), the DD gets an average 75 hit points while the half-dragon gets....about 46. Each extra point of Con bonus needs the DD a 3-hp advantage over the half-dragon. And the DD gets +7 to its Will save, while the half-dragon gets a measly +2.

And of course, the DD gets 7 bonus spell slots while the half-dragon gets 5 or 6 bonus feats. And they both get the natural weapons, breath weapon, natural armor, immunities, the ability increases, darkvision....

Dragon Disciple looks like some sort of mutated racial class.

Chronos
2007-10-18, 01:39 PM
A note, by the way, that Enlarge Person (from potions or otherwise) won't work on a level 10 Dragon Disciple. The capstone ability changes you into a half-dragon, which changes your type to dragon, and Enlarge Person only works on humanoids. I'm sure that there's another spell somewhere which will do the same thing, but I don't know what it would be.

cupkeyk
2007-10-18, 01:48 PM
A note, by the way, that Enlarge Person (from potions or otherwise) won't work on a level 10 Dragon Disciple. The capstone ability changes you into a half-dragon, which changes your type to dragon, and Enlarge Person only works on humanoids. I'm sure that there's another spell somewhere which will do the same thing, but I don't know what it would be.
Hopefully you have wraithstrike through precocious apprentice. Seven times a day of wraithstrike is still pretty awesome, especially for a gish like build.

Darrin
2007-10-18, 02:14 PM
A note, by the way, that Enlarge Person (from potions or otherwise) won't work on a level 10 Dragon Disciple. The capstone ability changes you into a half-dragon, which changes your type to dragon, and Enlarge Person only works on humanoids. I'm sure that there's another spell somewhere which will do the same thing, but I don't know what it would be.

If you're an Old humanoid, you could then take Epic feats via the Dragonwrought Instabold trick, although why you'd take 10 levels of a PrC when you can do the same thing with a feat at level 1 would be beyond me.

The only use I could see for Dragon Disciple would be to add more 9th level spell slots to an Ur-Priest build... assuming you finished Ur-Priest 10 at ECL 15, you could add 4 more 9th level spells with the first five levels of Dragon Disciple (and oddly enough, would add to your caster level, but only as half-levels). So, lessee... how about:

Wizard 5/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/Dragon Disciple 5

Would Eldritch Disciple work with a Dragonfire Adept 5/Ur-Priest 2 stub?

Saph
2007-10-18, 04:57 PM
A note, by the way, that Enlarge Person (from potions or otherwise) won't work on a level 10 Dragon Disciple. The capstone ability changes you into a half-dragon, which changes your type to dragon, and Enlarge Person only works on humanoids. I'm sure that there's another spell somewhere which will do the same thing, but I don't know what it would be.

Polymorph Any Object! You've got the dragon type now! Become a super-old Gold-Dragon-disciple-thing!

. . . okay, okay, broken, I know. Bad. But anyway, at that level you shouldn't have much trouble finding other available buffs. Enlarge Person is just in there because it's cheap and is a good low-level way of boosting your damage and Trip checks.

- Saph

Rogue 7
2007-10-18, 06:33 PM
I don't think that those two spells will leave you a good spellcaster...

What do you mean? I know it's not any new spells learned for a sorcerer, but the bonuses given outweigh the minor loss, in my mind. Not to mention it's not like I'm going to quit being a sorcerer- I'll probably only take another 2 levels or so in DD.

deadseashoals
2007-10-18, 06:46 PM
It's decent with Duskblade or Hexblade, since they don't have to give up anything to qualify for it. Especially for the Hexblade, since it gives them more level 4 spells than continuing the Hexblade progression would give them, and it gives them bonuses that a melee character would want.

Draz74
2007-10-18, 07:17 PM
The only use I could see for Dragon Disciple would be to add more 9th level spell slots to an Ur-Priest build... assuming you finished Ur-Priest 10 at ECL 15, you could add 4 more 9th level spells with the first five levels of Dragon Disciple (and oddly enough, would add to your caster level, but only as half-levels). So, lessee... how about:

Wizard 5/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/Dragon Disciple 5

Would Eldritch Disciple work with a Dragonfire Adept 5/Ur-Priest 2 stub?

Fascinating idea, but neither of these builds is actually legal (nor is the Favored Soul gestalt build mentioned earlier). A prerequisite for Dragon Disciple is spontaneous arcane spellcasting. Although if I were DM, I might be talked into counting Dragonfire Adept as meeting that prereq.

Good news is, the Disciple doesn't put any limits on what spellcasting can receive the bonus spells. So at least it can add to your Ur-Priest slots. But I'm not sure there's any way to finish Ur-Priest by ECL 15 and also have spontaneous arcane casting unless you leave out the Mystic Theurge part (leaving your arcane half quite weak).

Sorcerer 6 / Ur-Priest 2 / Mystic Theurge 8 / Dragon Disciple 4 should work, at the least, giving you 3 extra 9th-level spells.

EDIT: Oh, but I also think Saph's original build is worthwhile. Not as powerful as a full caster, of course, but it doesn't need to be. It's a decent gish with good Disciple flavor. Why the Barbarian dip, though?

Chronos
2007-10-18, 09:11 PM
Polymorph Any Object! You've got the dragon type now! Become a super-old Gold-Dragon-disciple-thing!Technically, I don't think that even Polycheese Any Object can change your age. So a 30 year old Dragon Disciple could be polymorphed into a 30 year old gold dragon, which is somewhat less than impressive.

Why 5 or 6 pure arcane levels before Mystic Theurge? The class only requires level 2 spells to enter, meaning Wiz 3 or Sorc 4.

And Rogue 7, the problem with the Dragon Disciple's bonus spells is that they're low level. If you take all of your Dragon Disciple levels after your sorc levels, and want to max out the class, you can't get bonus spells any higher than 5th level, and extra 5th level spells aren't too impressive when everyone else is tossing around 9th level spells. If you mix in some Dragon Disciple before you've taken all your sorc levels, it's even worse. In your example, your bonus spell slots are only level 3 (or less), and if you didn't have the DD levels, you'd have level 4 spell slots by now. And even once you do level up to where you can cast 5th or 6th or 9th level spells, your DD bonus spells will still be only level 3.

Darrin
2007-10-18, 09:11 PM
But I'm not sure there's any way to finish Ur-Priest by ECL 15 and also have spontaneous arcane casting unless you leave out the Mystic Theurge part (leaving your arcane half quite weak).


Easily fixable with a feat like Magical Training (FRCS) or Alacritous Cogitation (Comp. Mage). Actually, the five levels you take before Ur-Priest aren't all that important, so long as you have a reliable way to build up your Knowledge (Religion) ranks. Bard 5, Sorcerer 5, or Duskblade 5 would work just as well. Bard would have the easiest time meeting the skill requirements for Ur-Priest.

Rogue 7
2007-10-18, 09:48 PM
And Rogue 7, the problem with the Dragon Disciple's bonus spells is that they're low level. If you take all of your Dragon Disciple levels after your sorc levels, and want to max out the class, you can't get bonus spells any higher than 5th level, and extra 5th level spells aren't too impressive when everyone else is tossing around 9th level spells. If you mix in some Dragon Disciple before you've taken all your sorc levels, it's even worse. In your example, your bonus spell slots are only level 3 (or less), and if you didn't have the DD levels, you'd have level 4 spell slots by now. And even once you do level up to where you can cast 5th or 6th or 9th level spells, your DD bonus spells will still be only level 3.

Fair enough. It's a legitimate point, but I don't plan to max out the Prestige Class- at most I'll take 3 more levels, most likely 2. The rest will be in sorcerer. Next level I get 4th level spells, so it's not that much of a decline, and I'll probably take a few more sorcerer levels after that. It's really more for character flavor, obviously, so I don't care if it's not the best choic :smallwink: Thanks for the advice, though

DisgruntledFrog
2007-10-18, 10:13 PM
I came up with this guy for one of the players in my current campaign that likes interesting characters but isn't much into power gaming. He's currently level 11 and his player is having a lot of fun shredding things with his claws. (I don't have the sheet here so this is mostly from memory)

Human Sorcerer 6/ Barbarian 1/ Dragon Disciple 4 (Copper or Bronze I think)

HP: 4 + 5d4 + 5 d12 + 33 (~80)
AC: ~20 with spells and items, but usually with 50% miss chance from displacement

BAB: +7

Abilities

Str 22
Dex 12
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 14

Saves (with items, roughly):
F:14 R:7 W:12

Spells

0th x 6
General-purpose cantrips

1st x 7
Fist of stone
Orb of electricity
Shocking grasp
Mage armour

2nd x 6
Wraith strike
Craft magical tattoo

3rd x 6
Displacement

Feats

Draconic Heritage
Draconic claw (gain 1d6 damage claws and free attack after casting standard action spells)
Power attack
Arcane strike
Practised spell caster

Items

A rod of lesser maximise which he mostly uses with his orbs from range if necessary, plus some save and AC boosting stuff.

Favourite tactics

0. Displacement & mage armour before battle where possible. Occasionally has a magic tattoo or two on.
1. Cast stone fist and use Draconic claw for a free claw attack at +16 for 1d6 + 9
2a. Wraith strike + arcane strike (3rd level slot) + rage + power attack (7 points) + full attack (claw/claw/bite) at +14 (touch) for 1d6 + 3d4 + 18 (less for the bite)
OR
2b. Shocking grasp (maximised) + wraith strike + arcane strike (3rd) + rage + power attack (7 points) + free claw attack at +14 (touch) for 1d6 + 3d4 + 18 + 30 (electrical)

bugsysservant
2007-10-18, 10:42 PM
Bah, Dragon Disciples already have a very clear use: following the teachings of dragons. Duh.

What do you mean that's not what you meant? And what do you mean that I already knew that?!? Well, screw you guys, I'm goin' home.

Anyway, dragon disciples are just a flavor PrC. Hmm, now that I think of it, a party filled with dragon disciples, dragon shamans, and dragon fire adepts would be pretty fun to play

ASCIISkull
2007-10-19, 02:04 AM
So what happens when a lich hits level 10 of dragon disciple?

TheOOB
2007-10-19, 02:22 AM
Take a paladin, add levels of bard to taste to gain some useful magic spells and songs(if your DM won't let you play a lawful bard, then play sorcerer, preferable battle sorcerer for true strike). Then add dragon disciple levels to increase stats and improve melee ability. Add in feats that let you change your turn undead attempts into useful abilitys to max out cha synergy, and use a 2H weapon.

Saph
2007-10-19, 02:37 AM
EDIT: Oh, but I also think Saph's original build is worthwhile. Not as powerful as a full caster, of course, but it doesn't need to be. It's a decent gish with good Disciple flavor. Why the Barbarian dip, though?

The Wolf Totem Barbarian gives you Improved Trip at level 2, which means Knockdown at level 3, which plays off your high Strength for the rest of your levels. Being able to Rage several times a day is never a bad thing, either.

- Saph

Nermy
2007-10-19, 07:38 AM
So what happens when a lich hits level 10 of dragon disciple?
I'm not 100% certain, but I think it shifts its augmented subtype. So it's type would be Dragon and its subtypes would be augmented undead and augmented <original type>.

cody.burton
2007-10-19, 08:03 AM
I'm not 100% certain, but I think it shifts its augmented subtype. So it's type would be Dragon and its subtypes would be augmented undead and augmented <original type>.

I don't have the RAW on this, but I believe that undead is a sort of super-type, and they would change from undead(augmented humanoid) to undead(augmented dragon). That way they don't have to spontaneously gain a Con score, which the dragon type requires.

Person_Man
2007-10-19, 09:32 AM
I think that any damage option that relies on Power Attack for a Dragon Disciple is inherently nerfed. But there are other options:

Fear: Take Frightful Presence from the Draconomicon, giving you a dragon's Frightful Presence. You can also take 2 levels of Disciple of the Eye (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060106a&page=2) without having to take a Dragonblooded race or the feat, imbuing all of your attacks with Fear. Avenging Executioner gives you another one whenever you use Sudden Strike. Fear effects stack. And it fits perfectly with the dragon fluff.

Grapple: Take Improved Grapple and Scorpion's Grasp (Sandstorm, gives you a free grapple check whenever you hit your enemy with an unarmed strike, natural attack, or one handed weapon). It's a great way to deal a pile of unarmed damage, and it's particularly useful against enemies who are trying to flee from you (thanks to fear), because enemies who cannot flee Cower, denying them their Dex bonus and preventing them from taking actions.

Poison: Touch of Golden Ice (Book of Exhalted Deeds) forces Evil enemies to Save or take 1d4 Dex damage whenever you hit them with an unarmed or natural attack. The Save DC is laughably low, but remember that Fear effects impose cumulative penalties on Saving Throws, and a Hexblade's Dark Companion (PHBII) could lower it even further. Or you can go Evil and take Verminfriend + Spider Bite, and add Poison that deals 1d4 Str damage (synergizing nicely with your Grapple). The Save DC scales with your Con mod and character level, but sadly it only applies to your bite attack.

Unarmed Combat: If you take a level of Monk, then your Full Attack action is Base + Flurry + Claw/Claw/Bite (because Monks don't need to use their fists to make unarmed strikes, allowing them to use all of their natural attacks as secondary weapons). That's a ton of potential attacks. And since each one has the potential to cause Fear, a Grapple check, and Poison damage, you could put some serious hurt on your enemy. And with the right combo, I think you could get very respectable damage.

Marshal (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b): 1 level allows you to add your Cha bonus to all Strength checks. Might be worth it for a dip.

Master Spellthief: Do Dragon Disciple levels stack with this? I'm not sure. If so, I could see a Spellthief/Dragon Disciple working well.

Sneak Attack: If you can pick up 1d6 of Sneak Attack from any source (Spellthief, Beguiler, some PrC) you qualify for Craven, which adds +1 damage per character level when you Sneak Attack. So anyone caught in your grapple while cowering is screwed even further.

AtomicKitKat
2007-10-20, 12:11 PM
Dragon Devotee 3(Around ECL 6?) will net you a Bonus Feat/Sneak Attack boost, in addition to granting you 1 effective level of Sorceror(without the inherent suck that entails). 2 if you're crazy enough to go for all 5 levels. Here's the catch. At DDis10, you get the Dragon type, while DDev requires you to "not be of the Dragon type" to qualify. However, you need the DDev Sorceror level to qualify for DDis.:smallbiggrin:

Dragon Disciple works for anything that can grow in size. Anyone with the Expansion Psionic Power, or a Goliath with his Barbarian Substitution Level. Interestingly, while he retains the Powerful Build, he is no longer a Goliath(at DD10), and cannot qualify for the Sub Level.:smalltongue:

Clementx
2007-10-20, 12:29 PM
Dragon Devotee 3(Around ECL 6?) will net you a Bonus Feat/Sneak Attack boost, in addition to granting you 1 effective level of Sorceror(without the inherent suck that entails). 2 if you're crazy enough to go for all 5 levels. Here's the catch. At DDis10, you get the Dragon type, while DDev requires you to "not be of the Dragon type" to qualify. However, you need the DDev Sorceror level to qualify for DDis.
Assuming your DM isn't as stupid as the editors of Dragon Magic, Paladin (or Fighter/Barb) 5/Dragon Devotee 5/Dragon Disciple 10 isn't that bad. While you have all the problems of just lvl1 spells, you don't waste levels in arcane classes, and you are pretty focused. And an infinite paradox, which is also fun.

Dr Strangelove
2007-10-21, 01:08 AM
At lower levels, Dragon Disciples can be excellent opponents for the party. Take a level of sorcerer or bard, maybe a level or two of fighter, then Disciple. Enemies with breath weapons, plenty of HP, and a bit of casting. If you want to be mean, give them a ring of Fly.

Ninja Chocobo
2007-10-21, 03:35 AM
If you're an Old humanoid, you could then take Epic feats via the Dragonwrought Instabold trick, although why you'd take 10 levels of a PrC when you can do the same thing with a feat at level 1 would be beyond me.

Forgive me, but what is the Dragonwrought Instabold trick?

AtomicKitKat
2007-10-21, 04:23 AM
Forgive me, but what is the Dragonwrought Instabold trick?

Either ELH or Draconomicon had a rule about Very Old Dragons being able to take Epic Feats without having 21 HD, so since Kobolds have actual age categories similar to True Dragons, they qualify by taking Dragonwrought Kobold Feat, which turns them from Dragonblood to Dragon. I'm not sure how that applies to Humanoids that become Half Dragons.

Zincorium
2007-10-21, 04:32 AM
Draconomicon, pg 66, and since all humanoid characters can gain the Old age category (half orcs without too much effort), and then change into dragons, it works. Of course, the other prerequisites still stand, and even the most lenient DM is going to tell you it flat out doesn't work like that in their game.

Kami2awa
2007-10-21, 06:01 AM
In my campaign, I've used Dragon Disciple as a monastic order. (Currently only DMPCs and NPCs). I ignored the arcane spell requirement, and say that instead of being drawn to sorcery, those with draconic blood are better able to focus ki and become powerful monks.

They are drawn to a monastic temple whose sensei is a gold dragon in human monk form (an awesome Epic level opponent) by the calling in their blood. They train tirelessly, gaining monk levels (and a few sorcerer levels) until they have the prerequisites for Dragon Disciple-hood, when their draconic blood awakens, and they become the Order of the Dragon, followers of the Great Dragon Path.

Obviously this fits better into an Oriental campaign than any other; I like it because of the importance of dragons across Oriental culture, and then fusing it with the D&D mythos