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View Full Version : Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXI)



Zaq
2019-11-09, 09:41 PM
Welcome back to the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge E6 Appetizer Edition! It's time to get grimdark, spoopy, goffik, whatever you wanna call it. You know, just in time for Hallowe'en... er, well, maybe Hallowe'en decided to come late this year. But we're getting dark and shadowy up in here.


Oh yeah. This is happening.

The form of this challenge is to take a particular D&D 3.5 base class (our "secret ingredient," or SI) and turn it into a functional E6 (https://esix.pbworks.com/f/E6v041.pdf) build, which must feature the SI as heavily as possible. (The only hard rule about this is that you must take at least one level in the SI, though judges are encouraged to look favorably on builds that take as many levels as possible in said SI.) Your final build submission should consist of your 6 regular levels and your first 10 epic bonus feats, though providing a snapshot at earlier points through the progression is heartily encouraged. Entries are to be PM'd to the Chair (that would be me!), and they will be posted anonymously; our volunteer judges will then grade each build on a 1-5 point scale in four categories: Originality, Power, Elegance, and Use of the Secret Ingredient. The builds with the highest three scores will be awarded medals, with the Honorable Mention award going to the non-medaling build that the Chair likes best and/or that receives the most votes for HM in this thread. (HM may not always be awarded, particularly if the number of builds is very small.) And then we all have cake!*

*Note: You must provide your own cake.

This is basically like the regular Iron Chef, and let's be brutally honest with ourselves here: this isn't a gargantuan community, and we basically all know what we're talking about at this point. Make the builds, send 'em in, post some scores, and have fun. If you've got questions, lemme know. Still, let's lay out a few rules!

Cooking Time: Builds must be submitted via PM to the Chair by 4:59 PM GMT - 9 on Monday, November 25, 2019 (1:59 AM GMT on Tuesday, November 16). The reveal shall be on the first evening the Chair has free following the cooking deadline, which is hoped to be that evening or the immediately subsequent one—I'll do my best, anyway. Judging is then encouraged to go as quickly as possible; if multiple judges volunteer, we'll set about a two-week window, but if we only get one judge, we'll try to wrap up as soon as possible after that judge presents scores. (I will admit that the deadline time may not be an exact science, but don't hide from me and we'll probably be cool.)
Kitchen: Let's break this one down a bit.



ALLOWED: Almost all D&D 3.5 material published by WotC: Core, Completes, monster books, Races Of books, alternate power source books (Expanded Psionics Handbook, Magic of Incarnum, Tome of Battle, Tome of Magic, etc.), Spell Compendium, Book of Exalted Deeds, Book of Vile Darkness, Eberron material, Forgotten Realms material, and other WotC-published 3.5 material. (This list is NOT exhaustive and there are many other legal books that I did not mention by name!)
ALLOWED: Material from the 3.5 archives of the Wizards of the Coast website (including, but not limited to, the Mind's Eye articles). If you use it, link it.
ALLOWED: Official errata from WotC. If you're relying on this in a material fashion, it's a good idea to link it and to discuss it.
NOT ALLOWED: Unofficial errata, including "class fixes" (regardless of the source, including from the original author if not published in a WotC book) or fan-created content.
ALLOWED: Unupdated WotC-published 3.0 material (e.g., Sword and Fist, Masters of the Wild, etc.) except for 3.0 psionics. No 3.0 psionics allowed. If you are using 3.0 material, use the general-purpose skill updates (Wilderness Lore becomes Survival, Innuendo becomes Bluff, etc.) and the general-purpose rules updates (spells with a casting time of "1 action" become "1 standard action," etc.) when appropriate.
NOT ALLOWED: 3.0 material for which a direct 3.5 update exists. Use the updated material instead.
ALLOWED: Dragon Compendium and its errata (http://paizo.com/download/dragon/compendium/DragonCompendiumVolumeIErrata.pdf).
NOT ALLOWED: Content from Dragon Magazine and/or Dungeon Magazine unless said content appears in an otherwise allowed source.
ALLOWED: Oriental Adventures, including the 3.5 update to Oriental Adventures from Dragon Magazine #318. This is a specific exception to the "no Dragon" rule!
NOT ALLOWED: Pathfinder content, regardless of whether it is "D&D 3.5 OGL" or not. If it didn't come from WotC, we don't want it.
ALLOWED: From Unearthed Arcana: racial paragon classes, alternate class features/variant classes, spelltouched feats, and variant races. (Traits and flaws are technically legal, but traits warrant a -0.5 point penalty in Elegance, and flaws warrant a -1 penalty in Elegance.)
NOT ALLOWED: Other Unearthed Arcana content, including (but not limited to) bloodlines, LA buyoff, fractional BAB/saves, alternate casting systems, alternate skill systems, item familiars, prestigious character classes, generic classes, gestalt, etc. When you're wondering if UA content is allowed, err on the side of caution and don't mess around with it.
NOT ALLOWED: Leadership, regardless of source. Game elements functionally equivalent to Leadership (including, but not limited to, Dragon Cohort, Undead Leadership, and Thrallherd) are similarly banned. (Familiars, Improved Familiar, animal companions, Wild Cohort, psicrystals, elemental envoys, and similar game elements are allowed, and they are not considered to be "Leadership." If the difference isn't obvious, feel free to contact the Chair with specific questions.)
NOT ALLOWED: Third-party content, homebrew, or other non-WotC content.
NOT ALLOWED: Epic feats from the Epic Level Handbook. Just because you're "epic" in E6 after 6th level doesn't mean that you're that kind of epic.
NOT ALLOWED: Any race or template with a level adjustment other than +0. (Or any other source of LA other than a race or template, if any such things exist.)
NOT ALLOWED: For our judges: penalizing solely based on legal sources used, regardless of whether those sources are plentiful, sparse, common, obscure, or something in between. If the material is legal, then it doesn't matter how many or how few books it came out of.
ALLOWED: Also for our judges: penalizing for using a source (other than material in Core; don't be vindictive about genuinely obvious stuff) that isn't listed in the build writeup. The chef may choose to present the sources in-line with the text, in a consolidated source list, or somewhere else, but if the source is listed (and is otherwise legal), it counts. If the source is not listed, you may choose to penalize for that.

If you have questions about anything in this section (or hell, in this ruleset), feel free to ask the Chair.

Character Creation: 32 point buy is assumed. For the purposes of this contest, Level Adjustment greater than +0 is banned. (This may be revised at a later point, but I don't feel that the E6 LA rules are conducive to fun in the context of this contest.) No more than two entries per chef per contest, please; if you submit two builds and somehow are so overcome with inspiration for a third that you can't help yourself, PM me and tell me which two you care about the most.
Highlighted because of past issues: It is not enough for your build to end with a level adjustment of +0. You must be +0 from start to finish. No using ANY build elements with a level adjustment above +0, even if they then get mitigated or reduced somehow.
Speculation: Please do not post any form of speculation before the reveal. Just don't do it, guys. It's not cool. This means NOT posting any of the following or anything substantially similar: what you think is going to be common, significant elements of your planned build or of other potential builds, or anything else that could directly influence someone else's build choices for good or for ill. (It's acceptable to ask for rules clarifications as appropriate, but try to avoid tipping your hand too much.) Speculation is bad because it can discourage people from posting builds and can also "taint the judging pool" when it comes to Originality, so please just try to be aware of how other people might react to your speculation.
E6: Here's how E6 works for the purposes of this contest. Build your character normally for the first six levels. After you reach level 6, you stop gaining levels and start gaining bonus feats every time you would gain 5,000 XP. Since we aren't actually tracking XP, you'll basically list your first ten epic bonus feats in the order that you take them, and we think of them as being kind of like levels. We will not use the LA-equals-reduced-point-buy rules, instead preferring to just ban races with LA, at least for now. We will not use the "capstone feats"; all feats that you take must be normal legal 3.5 feats, not homebrew E6 ones. You may not use the Epic feats from the Epic Level Handbook, though if for some reason there are non-Epic feats from the ELH that you qualify for, you may take those. (I don't think there are any, but I'm sure someone will prove me wrong.) It is up to the discretion of each judge whether this is a "hard E6" (magic above 3rd level spells is simply beyond mortal reach, items that have a listed CL above 6th are just plain not available, etc.) or a "soft E6" (if you can somehow get the magic on your character, it's yours, regardless of level), though I honestly don't expect it to come up. Don't go crazy with making assumptions about items and we probably won't have to find out.
Presentation: Please use the table found below in the spoiler. List your epic bonus feats (in clear order) after the table. If you find a clever way of formatting that that isn't annoying and that doesn't break anything, have fun; if it's portable, I may steal it for the next round. When sending your build or any disputes to the Chair, clearly include your build's name in the subject of the PM, and please present your build exactly as you want the Chair to copy and paste it into the thread.
If you're using a picture, cite the source and follow any relevant citation rules. Because we have had issues with this in the past, when listing your skills, please make it very clear how many ranks you have at each level. There are multiple ways to do this and we do not wish to cramp anyone's individual style by dictating exactly how this must look, but make sure that somewhere in your entry there's an explanation of how many actual skill ranks you have. It's still fine to list total skill bonuses, if that's your style, but don't only list bonuses; make sure that there is a clear listing somewhere of your ranks alone.

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


Code for the table:

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

Contest houserules: Nearly the same as the main contest's rules here: all creatures are proficient with natural weapons they have or may acquire, bonus feats that are explicitly granted without meeting prereqs are usable even without those prereqs, and feats that affect which skills are class skills for you and/or how you spend your skill points (Able Learner, Martial Study, Truename Training, Apprentice, etc.) apply immediately at the level at which you take them (even though you normally spend skill points before taking a feat). When taking Open Minded as an epic feat, any skill that has ever been a class skill for you (including through your class, your race, your feats, or similar game elements, though please don't muck around with retroactively making something stop being a class skill for some stupid reason) is a class skill when determining how the 5 granted skill points may be spent. All usual rules about HD-related skill caps apply. When taking Open Minded as a non-epic feat, treat it as normal; the class skills of the class you took at the level you gained Open Minded (plus race, feats, etc.) are your class skills for those skill points, similar to if Open Minded's skill points came straight from your class.
Judging guidelines: The minimum score in a category is 1, and the maximum is 5. Judges are expected to be fair, consistent, and open-minded, and they are expected to make a good-faith effort to engage with any reasonable disputes that arise, especially when RAW is in question. That said, contestants are asked to not dispute more than necessary; let's do everything in good faith and really only dispute when a judge is being inconsistent, being unfair, or is otherwise grossly misinterpreting a build.
Judges may not penalize Originality solely because a build is a tribute or homage to an existing creative work (in or out of D&D canon; note that this is not the same thing as penalizing Originality for using well-known optimization tactics), nor may judges penalize based solely on sources used (whether those sources are plentiful, sparse, common, obscure, or something in between, you should judge the build elements and how they work together rather than what book or what books they came out of, as long as those books are legal for this contest and are cited in the entry).
As with the main contest, we will follow the "One Mistake, One Penalty" guideline, and it is very important that the judges adhere to it. I'm going to directly copy and paste this from the main thread, and hopefully the original author won't mind too much:
Judges are only allowed to penalise once for a given mistake. If someone messes up their skills and doesn't qualify for a PrC, ding them as hard as you like. Once. In one category. You don't then get to declare that because they didn't qualify for that PrC, they don't get those levels, and thus don't qualify for anything else. If Ranger is a common ingredient, ding them for Originality. Once. Don't also take off points for Two-Weapon-Fighting being a common ingredient.

Non-exhaustive list of examples:

Skills
Allowed:

Giving a penalty for miscalculating the number of skill points gained
Giving a penalty for not having enough ranks to meet a prerequisite
Increasing the harshness of a skill miscalculation penalty if it affects critical skills including prereqs


Not allowed:

Giving separate penalties for miscalculating skill points and for non-qualification where the non-qualification is solely caused by the miscalculation



Prereqs
Allowed:

Giving a penalty for not meeting prereqs
Scaling the penalty depending on how important the item that the build failed to qualify for is
Giving minimum score in UotSI for not qualifying for the SI
Not giving credit for (note: not the same as penalising for) tactics using feats or classes other than the SI that were not qualified for (but see below)


Not Allowed:

"Cascading" failures to qualify - declaring that because a build doesn't qualify for a feat, for example, it also doesn't qualify for anything using that feat as a prereq
Treating a build as having fewer levels than it does because of FtQ for classes



Other general things that are no longer allowed:

Penalising because someone has chosen to build a tribute to an existing creative work
Deciding that a backstory has not met a fluff prerequisite well enough, or because its method of meeting it is "unrealistic". You may penalise if a fluff prereq is not addressed at all, but not for how well it is addressed.


Note that these are protections, not licenses. Deliberately taking a feat that you know you don't qualify for hoping to just suck up the judging penalty for a feat that you couldn't normally take is not okay, and may lead to your build being disqualified.
Dispute guidelines (NEW, PLEASE PAY ATTENTION): Disputing is long, annoying, and emotional. It's also sometimes necessary, but it's often not actually something that makes everyone have more fun. Let's go into a little more detail here.
Do NOT dispute to make an argument that goes fundamentally beyond what's in your write-up. It is the responsibility of the chef to make sure that the write-up is complete and contains their best arguments for what the build does and why it's awesome. If you didn't explain your tactics well or didn't spell out something that a judge misses, just do better next time. Don't drag it out after the fact.
Do NOT dispute just to be clever or witty or cheeky. Please. We're all adults here and so I assume you know what that means. Don't treat the build as a setup and your oh-so-clever dispute as the punchline. It's not as funny as it is in your head. Trust me. I've been down that road.
Do NOT dispute just to say "oh yeah, my bad, I missed that" or some equivalent. If you're not directly challenging the judge, save the commentary until after the reveal. I 100% get that the urge to respond to commentary is very strong, but type it out and sit on it for a while if you've gotta.
Do NOT dispute just to try to wheedle more points out of the judge. Note that this is different from saying that the judge is being truly unfair or is being truly wrong by black-and-white RAW. A dispute is NOT the place to try to scrape together a few last quarter-points. If you didn't put it in your write-up, that's on you. This also means that a dispute is really not the place to have long back-and-forth tit-for-tat arguments. That's a surefire way to get people grumpy. It's a contest on a D&D board, guys, not the results of a federal election.
Do NOT dispute to tear down another build. That's just plain not cool. If you entered the contest, it's not on you to judge the other builds.
DO dispute if the judge is being blatantly biased by giving you a substantially different ruling on a build element compared to another chef who used the same build element in nearly the same way. (Note that position in a build may affect if you're using that element in "nearly the same way" or not.) Please reserve this for the truly blatant examples. I mean it. Remember, it's the contestant's responsibility to make their best argument in the original write-up.
DO dispute if the judge is actively going against the contest rules. Note that there are relatively few ways in which a judge can go against contest rules (we intentionally give very wide discretion to our judges), but examples include truly breaking One Mistake One Penalty, penalizing just because of number of sources of (legal) material, and so on.
DO dispute if the judge is clearly ignoring unambiguous RAW. Note that this is for unambiguous RAW; if the RAW is shady and you're making an argument that isn't completely clear and that it wouldn't be strange for a GM to frown on, the judge has every right to frown on it as well. (You generally know when you're indulging in shady RAW. Be mature about this.) But if the judge is saying you didn't hit a prereq that you clearly did hit (and included in your write-up!), saying you can't do something that the plain text of the ability says you can do, or anything like that, by all means, call 'em out.
Do NOT dispute if the judge doesn't agree with your interpretation of ambiguous RAW. Yes, this is a retread of the previous bullet point; this is that important. If you're relying on ambiguous RAW, it's on you to lay out clearly why it should work the way you want it to work. Again, be mature and act in good faith: you really know when you're pushing things like this. If they don't like it, they don't like it. Move on.


Disputing is a privilege, not a right. In the Chair's sole discretion, disputes that do not meet these guidelines and/or that do not seem to be offered in good faith may be suppressed.


Other bits and bobs: If there's something major and relevant I haven't mentioned, assume that the way I handle it will probably be the same as the main contest unless stated otherwise or unless doing so would be an obviously absurd result. If you've got questions, I'll give you answers.




This round's secret ingredient:
the SHADOWCASTER, from Tome of Magic!
Allez Optimizer!

The Builds:


Build
Race
Final Stub
Miniman Score
Author
Position

Tawamios (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24282931&postcount=34)Tawamios[/td]
Unseelie fey dragonlance sage gnome
Shadowcaster 6
13.5
Quentinas
First
The Shadow's Hand (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24282927&postcount=32)
Human
Shadowcaster 5/Battle Dancer 1
12.25
Luccan
Second
Smoke (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24282929&postcount=33)
Whisper gnome
Shadowcaster 6
12.25
Gauntlet
Second
Umbra P.Darkfont (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24282934&postcount=35 )
Human
Arificer 1/shadowcaster 5
11
daremetoidareyo
Fourth, Honorable Mention
Nix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24282922&postcount=31)
Changeling
shadowcaster 5/Mystic Theurge 1
10.5
daremetoidareyo
Fifth
Fluffless (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24282920&postcount=30)
Whisper Gnome
Beguiler 1/shadowcaster 3/Noctumancer 2
10.25
jdizzlean
Sixth





Round 4: Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?542333-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-E6-Appetizer-Edition-(IV))
Round 5: Ninja (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?548763-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-E6-Appetizer-Edition-(Round-V))
Round 6: Racial Paragon Classes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?551174-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-E6-Appetizer-Edition-(Round-VI))
Round 7: Hexblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?553767-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-E6-Appetizer-Edition-(Round-VII))
Round 8: Shugenja (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?555626-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-E6-Appetizer-Edition-(Round-VIII))
Round 9: Swashbuckler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?559135-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-E6-Appetizer-Edition-(Round-IX)")
Round 10: Crusader (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?562183-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-E6-Appetizer-Edition-(Round-X))
Round 11: Soulknife (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?565669-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-E6-Appetizer-Edition-(Round-XI))
Round 12: Factotum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?569723-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-E6-Appetizer-Edition-(Round-XII))
Round 13: Prestige Classes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?572441-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-E6-Appetizer-Edition-(Round-XIII))
Round 14: Mountebank (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?576318-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-E6-Appetizer-Edition-(Round-XIV))
Round 15: Sorcerer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?582751-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-E6-Appetizer-Edition-(Round-XV))
Round 16: Dragon Shaman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?585121-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-E6-Appetizer-Edition-(Round-XVI))
Round 17: Lurk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?588149-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-E6-Appetizer-Edition-(Round-XVII))
Round 18: Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?591516-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-E6-Appetizer-Edition-(Round-XVIII))
Round 19: Scout (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?595369-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-E6-Appetizer-Edition-(Round-XIX))
Round 20: Incarnate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?599279-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-E6-Appetizer-Edition-(Round-XX))



Round 1: Divine Mind (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?197000-Iron-Chef-Appetizer-Edition!-(e6))
Round 2: Monk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?201548-Iron-Chef-Appetizer-Edition!-(e6)-II)
Round 3: Marshal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?235221-Iron-Chef-Appetizer-Edition-(E6)-III)

Zaq
2019-11-09, 09:49 PM
Here's a few gentle recommendations that are intended to improve scores and make things easier for the judges. As always, THE RECOMMENDATIONS IN THIS POST ARE NOT RULES. Judges and contestants are free to honor them or ignore them; my intent here is only to help, and NONE of what I'm saying here is required. (That said, did you see the new dispute guidelines? Those ARE rules, so please go read them. And I'm even going to be better about enforcing them this time.)

Recommendations:
Double-check ALL of your prereqs. Every. Single. One. Feats, PrCs, whatever. You might even go so far as to spell out when you meet each one, but again, that's not a requirement. But one of the single biggest causes of point loss is failure to meet prereqs.
Tell the judges what's cool about your build! You spent hours or days on this (y'know, probably) and know it inside and out, but the judges are getting a whole bunch of these dishes all at once and don't know the build history of each one. You're significantly more likely to score well if you spell out exactly what makes you awesome than if you try to just let it stand on its own.
Make it easy to read! Skill tables are awful, though they're an incredibly necessary evil. Full Monster Manual-style statblocks are occasionally useful but are also insanely dense if not formatted well. Judges are very likely to miss something if you aren't careful with how you present your info. Remember that judging takes a lot of time, energy, and focus, so don't rely on the judge being willing/able to decode something in order to see what makes you interesting!
Be memorable. Remember that we're all using the same ingredient here. What makes you different?

This is going to be a hard round. I have the utmost respect for each and every one of you who committed to this (don't let me down!). I've tried so many times over the years to make a shadowcaster I feel comfortable bringing to the table, but every single time I chicken out at the last second and play something with more staying power instead. To go into an E6 setting knowing that you're not going to ever get to turn your whole suite of mysteries into SLAs is pretty gutsy, so I salute you already.

Now, remember that everyone's working in the same environment! Your job is both to make the best of it and to somehow stand out. As is always the case, I'm not judging and I'm not the one you need to impress, but if I were judging, I'd be most impressed by builds that both explain why their mysteries are awesome and why the character isn't a useless waste of space when they're not casting one of their, like, six mysteries per day. Which is a hell of an ask, but that's why this is a hard ingredient.

I have faith in all of you. I've given you two and a half weekends to work on this (if you work M-F, of course. Don't wanna assume too much), so I think you can do this. Remember, everyone's going to suck, so don't talk yourself out of that goofy take!

As a reminder, we are NOT using the "official unofficial fix" from Ari Marmell. Play with what actually got printed in ToM (plus any applicable official errata).

Bold, red, underlined, big. Anyone asks that question, feel free to mock them.

Falontani
2019-11-09, 11:51 PM
Inspiration has struck.

daremetoidareyo
2019-11-10, 04:11 PM
Here's a few gentle recommendations that are intended to improve scores and make things easier for the judges. As always, THE RECOMMENDATIONS IN THIS POST ARE NOT RULES. Judges and contestants are free to honor them or ignore them; my intent here is only to help, and NONE of what I'm saying here is required. (That said, did you see the new dispute guidelines? Those ARE rules, so please go read them. And I'm even going to be better about enforcing them this time.)

Recommendations:
Double-check ALL of your prereqs. Every. Single. One. Feats, PrCs, whatever. You might even go so far as to spell out when you meet each one, but again, that's not a requirement. But one of the single biggest causes of point loss is failure to meet prereqs.
Tell the judges what's cool about your build! You spent hours or days on this (y'know, probably) and know it inside and out, but the judges are getting a whole bunch of these dishes all at once and don't know the build history of each one. You're significantly more likely to score well if you spell out exactly what makes you awesome than if you try to just let it stand on its own.
Make it easy to read! Skill tables are awful, though they're an incredibly necessary evil. Full Monster Manual-style statblocks are occasionally useful but are also insanely dense if not formatted well. Judges are very likely to miss something if you aren't careful with how you present your info. Remember that judging takes a lot of time, energy, and focus, so don't rely on the judge being willing/able to decode something in order to see what makes you interesting!
Be memorable. Remember that we're all using the same ingredient here. What makes you different?

This is going to be a hard round. I have the utmost respect for each and every one of you who committed to this (don't let me down!). I've tried so many times over the years to make a shadowcaster I feel comfortable bringing to the table, but every single time I chicken out at the last second and play something with more staying power instead. To go into an E6 setting knowing that you're not going to ever get to turn your whole suite of mysteries into SLAs is pretty gutsy, so I salute you already.

Now, remember that everyone's working in the same environment! Your job is both to make the best of it and to somehow stand out. As is always the case, I'm not judging and I'm not the one you need to impress, but if I were judging, I'd be most impressed by builds that both explain why their mysteries are awesome and why the character isn't a useless waste of space when they're not casting one of their, like, six mysteries per day. Which is a hell of an ask, but that's why this is a hard ingredient.

I have faith in all of you. I've given you two and a half weekends to work on this (if you work M-F, of course. Don't wanna assume too much), so I think you can do this. Remember, everyone's going to suck, so don't talk yourself out of that goofy take!



This was a sweet addition to the post. Thanks for saying it, chair

daremetoidareyo
2019-11-12, 01:23 PM
Question about fundamentals.

Can you use each fundamental that you choose 3 times per day?
or
Do you have 3 uses per day, one for each fundamental?

The tenses are a bit weird. You can choose one fundamental more than once and gain a "set of uses" but you only gain an additional fundamental (singular) at 4th level.

Zaq
2019-11-12, 03:00 PM
As I read it, each “instance” of knowing a fundamental means you can cast that specific fundamental 3/day. If you learn a fundamental a second time, you can use that specific fundamental an additional three times per day.

Luccan
2019-11-13, 02:29 AM
This is how you know they didn't edit it properly (other than the class maker saying it). Though it doesn't matter for this challenge, in the long term for a regular game there's no reason to do that, you'll eventually get it an unlimited number of times a day anyway.

daremetoidareyo
2019-11-16, 03:34 PM
I sent my monstrosity in. This class is bonkers.

Quentinas
2019-11-19, 10:26 AM
Blast even if i have problem with computer and cell i have to partecipate at this round! What is the time limit?On my old computer i had two idea one that was fantastisc and that i tried to use on one campaign!

daremetoidareyo
2019-11-19, 11:10 AM
The official deadline is Monday Nov 25th

thorr-kan
2019-11-19, 12:00 PM
I sent my monstrosity in. This class is bonkers.
This class fits my wife's definition of "hot mess."

I keep starting ideas, and I keep having to stop because they're *not shadowcasters.* I don't know if I'll get a submission this round.

Zaq
2019-11-19, 02:53 PM
This class fits my wife's definition of "hot mess."

I keep starting ideas, and I keep having to stop because they're *not shadowcasters.* I don't know if I'll get a submission this round.

That’s the problem: even shadowcasters are only shadowcasters for a few rounds each day. You’re on equal footing with everyone else. I say try it out anyway.

Luccan
2019-11-19, 04:33 PM
That’s the problem: even shadowcasters are only shadowcasters for a few rounds each day. You’re on equal footing with everyone else. I say try it out anyway.

I tried grafting Truenamer and Shadowcaster together once just to create a class that has abilities that can be used consistently and abilities that (theoretically) function more than a couple of times a day. It was thematically and mechanically a mess.

I'm putting together my build over the next few days, should be ready by Monday.

Zaq
2019-11-22, 08:37 AM
Getting close to the 72 hour mark! Got a couple dishes in. How’s everyone else doing? I know weekends tend to be prime build-time.

daremetoidareyo
2019-11-22, 08:52 AM
I'm thinking about a build and might be able to squeak it in

Quentinas
2019-11-22, 09:06 AM
Zaq i asked you something with a Message but when i have these answear i will be able to put my build

Zaq
2019-11-22, 10:45 AM
Response provided. Sorry I missed it, but I appreciate the heads-up!

Falontani
2019-11-22, 11:16 PM
I found a ruling that messes with my original idea, still trying to make it work, but I've been... Distracted

PoeticallyPsyco
2019-11-23, 03:10 AM
More than any other competition, these deadlines always sneak up on me. That said, I think I've hit on an idea.

Zaq
2019-11-24, 11:32 AM
I love what I'm seeing so far, but I'm greedy and I always want more. Stay encouraged and determined, chefs! You've got this!

jdizzlean
2019-11-24, 12:35 PM
i originally wasn't going to enter. however, today of course, inspiration has struck. i may need an extra day to get it done, but may finish before the deadline. just a heads up

Zaq
2019-11-24, 12:50 PM
We can work something out.

Luccan
2019-11-24, 07:05 PM
I've submitted my build. There was a slight error with formatting I hope the chair can correct for the sake of thread space

Zaq
2019-11-24, 07:47 PM
Yup, caught it already. You’re good.

Zaq
2019-11-25, 05:11 PM
I won’t be free tonight. Hard deadline is Wednesday, cool?

thorr-kan
2019-11-25, 06:04 PM
I won’t be free tonight. Hard deadline is Wednesday, cool?
Quite. Thank you.

daremetoidareyo
2019-11-26, 06:52 PM
Can't wait to see the builds for this heaping load of hot mess.

thorr-kan
2019-11-26, 07:16 PM
Don't wait on me. I can't get it to gel, and holiday stuff has come up. So I won't be submitting.

I, too, am looking forward to what comes out.

Zaq
2019-11-27, 10:46 PM
Iiiiiiincoming!

Zaq
2019-11-27, 10:47 PM
No fluff. All smooth. Like a polished rock. Sleep well, children.


N Beguiler 1/Shadowcaster 3/Noctumancer 2

Whisper gnome (RoS 96)
+2 DEX/CON, -2 STR/CHA, Small (+1 AC/Attack, +4 Hide) Speed 30
Lowlight and Darkvision 60ft, Weapon Familiarity, +1 attacks vs kobold/goblinoids, +4 dodge to AC vs giants, +4 Hide/Move Silent, +2 Listen/Spot. SLA’s: 1/day Silence, Ghost sound, Mage Hand, Message
4d6+2d4+12 HP
Point Buy:
STR 11 DEX 14 CON 12 INT 17 WIS 10 CHA 12
Racials:
STR 9 DEX 16 CON 14 INT 17 WIS 10 CHA 10
LVL 4 into INT




Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Beguiler
+0
+0
+0
+2
Bluff 4, Conc 4, Hide 4, Know Arcane 4, Move 4, Sleight 4, Spellcraft 4, Tumble 4, UMD 4
Precocious Apprentice – Distracting Ray
Armored Mage (Light), Trapfinding, Spells


2
Shadowcaster
+0
+2
+0
+4
Conc 5, Hide 5, Know Arc 5, Move 5, Spellcraft 5
-
Fundamentals, Apprentice Mysteries


3rd
Shadowcaster 2
+1
+3
+0
+5
Conc 6, Hide 6, Know Arc 6, Move 6, Spellcraft 6
Shadow Cast, (B)Still Mystery
-


4th
Shadowcaster 3
+1
+3
+1
+5
Conc 7, Hide 7, Move 7, Spellcraft 7, cc-Bluff 5
-
Umbral Sight (+30ft)


5th
Noctumancer
+1
+5
+1
+7
Conc 8, Spellcraft 8, cc-Tumble 5, cc-UMD 5
-
Capture Magic’s Shadow, +1 SC/Mysteries


6th
Noctumancer 2
+2
+6
+1
+8
Conc 9, Spellcraft 9, cc-Tumble 6, cc-UMD 6
Shadow Familiar, (B)Alertness
Innate Counterspell 1/day, +1 SC/Mysteries


1-Precocious Apprentice – 2nd level casting
3- Shadow Cast – pick an unthreatened adjacent square (behind you) no AoO for casting/sla’s
3- Still Mystery – no somatic component for mysteries, they can’t be identified now
6- Shadow Familiar – gain a familiar w/ the dark template at full master level
6- Alertness - +2 listen/spot
1- Practiced Spellcaster (Beguiler) +4 CL up to HD, so CL 6
2- Improved Familiar
3- Martial Study (Action Before Thought) – use Concentration for REF saves
4- Shape Soulmeld (Lamia Belt) - +4 to Bluff/Hide
5- Favored Mystery (Sight Eclipsed) – becomes Su, 3/day
6- Extra Silence – 3 uses of racial Silence
7- Favored Mystery (Thoughts of Shadow) – becomes Su, 3/day
8- Battle Caster – can now cast in MED armor w/o ASF
9- Darkstalker – creatures w/ special senses must make listen/spot to see you
10- Able Sniper - +2 on ranged attack vs FF 30+ft away, gain +4 on hide checks after attacking
Spells/Mysteries per day
3rd lvl Arcane at CL 6:]/b]
1: 0-5, 1-4, 2-1
5: 0-6, 1-5, 2-1
6: 0-6, 1-6, 2-1

Depending on how you read the bonus spells per day entry in the PHB p8, the ability to cast 2nd lvl spells is the determining factor for bonus spells/day. Since you can cast a 2nd lvl spell at 1st lvl through the Precocious Apprentice Feat, you should qualify for a bonus slot of 2nd level due to a high INT. This is not reflected in the table, but should you agree with that reasoning, add 1 to each 2nd lvl spell slot at all levels.
Beguiler gives you access to Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, and Transmutation at lvl 1. Spell Selection for Precocious Apprentice: Distracting Ray (SpC 69): no save, no SR close range, ranged touch that forces a DC17+spell lvl concentration check or spell being cast is lost.
[b]3rd lvl Fundamentals/Mysteries:
Fundamentals usable 3/day, Mysteries 1/day
2: Arrow of Dusk, Sight Obscured 2x, Steel Shadows
3: Mesmerizing Shade
4: Thoughts of Shadow
5: Arrow of Dusk +1, Afraid of the Dark
6: Sight Eclipsed
Fundamentals:
Arrow of Dusk (taken twice) – Med range ray, no save, no SR, 2d4 nonlethal, crits x3
Sight Obscured (taken twice) – 1rd/lvl +5 hide/sleight or other check to conceal actions/gestures
Umbral Mind Path:
1- Mesmerizing Shade: close range, will save partial, dazed and -1 attacks/checks/saves 1 round
2- Thoughts of Shadow: 1min/lvl, +4 to INT or WIS or CHA
3- Afraid of the Dark: med range, will save for half, 1d6+1 WIS damage
Cloak of Shadows Path:
1- Steel Shadows: 10min/lvl, +3 shield and +3 armor bonus to AC
2- Sight Eclipsed: 1rd/lvl, can attempt hide checks while being observed
Shadow Familiar/Improved Familiar
at 6th, it’ll be a Dark Weasel (+2 to REF saves)
at epic 2nd we’ll change to improved familiar and use the Gem Scarab from MMV
Dark Onyx Gem Scarab Familiar
N Small Magical Beast (Extraplanar)
Tremorsense 30ft, Listen +6, Spot +4
AC 19 (touch 11, flat 16) (+8 NA)
Speed 50, fly 70 avg, burrow 25, climb 20
Melee: BAB +2, Bite +2 1d4-1
SLA: Deathwatch 6/day (0th level spell from the Healer’s spell list, Mini 11)
Darkvision 60ft, Hide in Plain Sight, Resistance Cold 10, Superior Low Light Vision
Str 9, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 10
Alertness, Climb +9, Hide +7 (+15 in sand), Listen +6, Spot +4 (+10 racial on climb, and can always take 10), Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with Master
Deathwatch gives you information on how close to death targets within a 30ft cone are. Each use is good for 10 minutes/lvl, and SLA’s are usually HD=CL (since familiar’s are special, that makes it for CL 6, or an hour at a time). Knowing which targets are close to death allows you to target them with your Arrow of Dusk to knock them out of the fight.


So shadowcaster sucks, on that we can all agree. Class feature’s that are only usable a few times a day, and the rest of the time you have to be something else. Even the feats designed around the class either only grant an extra use 1-2x/day, making them poor choices to invest in as well for the most part. On top of that, any investment into this class destroys your BAB, so you’ll never be a frontline damage dealer either.
I’ve tried to use some of the available options to the shadowcaster, and enhance them, as well as to give myself more options for things to do in and out of combat. This starts out by having Beguiler be the base class for far more skill points, and arcane casting. Then following this with 3 ranks in the SI, finishing off with 2 ranks of Noctumancer, which progresses both the Beguiler’s arcane casting, as well as our mystery progression for Arcane CL of 6th, and Mystery 5th.
Umbral Sight stacks with our racial vision to grant Darkvision 90ft.
Precocious Apprentice allows us to hit 2nd level spells, as well as gives a potent attack vs enemy casters right from the get go. Shadow Cast grants you the ability to use all your spells/mysteries w/o provoking AoO’s as long as you aren’t completely surrounded, and Still Mystery makes all your mystery casting unidentifiable.
Shadow Familiar is explained above, but is most beneficial as you get full familiar advancement out of it instead of just partial. Martial Study shores up the abysmal REF save, while Shape Soulmeld stacks on bonus’s to Bluff and Hide. Favored Mystery bumps those 2 up to 3x day uses along with Extra Silence for the same, and Battle Caster gets us into Medium armor for more survivability. Darkstalker forces that astronomical spot vs our hide to be seen, and able sniper both grants a situational bonus to ranged attacks, as well as yet another bonus to hide.
Sight Obscured can be used with Bluff, Hide, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand and Tumble. The familiar shores up Arrows of Dusk making them more potent. We can buff any of our mental stats for what is most important in the moment thrice daily, get a boost to AC, or inflict WIS damage on a foe.
Our familiar has HiPs, and we nearly have it through our mystery. Total Hide score with everything up and activated comes out to +30. If you’re unfortunate enough to find yourself in melee combat, hopefully a +16 to your bluff check will help you to feint or otherwise cause a diversion. As a fun exercise in thought, your familiar is actually bigger than you, and uses and succeeds on a HiPs hide check, would your +30 modifier allow you to then use him as cover and hide behind him?
Noctumancer’s 2 class abilities present a bit of a problem, and for that we turn to UMD to help out. Dispel Magic is out of reach on our spell list, but with UMD we can attempt to use wands or scrolls (at a max of +8 to the check), or to do the same with mysteries that have been used with item creation feats to do the same. The second ability however can be used to burn off less awesome mysteries to outright counterspell, and in keeping that awesome shadowcaster tradition alive, once per day.

Complete Adventurer: Improved Diversion
Complete Arcane: Battle Caster, Practiced Spellcaster, Precocious Apprentice
Complete Scoundrel: Improved Familiar
Lords of Madness: Darkstalker
Magic of Incarnum: Lamia Belt, Shape Soulmeld
PHB2: Beguiler
Races of Stone: Extra Silence, Whisper Gnome
Races of the Wild: Able Sniper
Tome of Battle: Action Before Thought, Martial Study
Tome of Magic: Dark Creature Template, Feats (Favored Mystery, Shadow Cast, Shadow Familiar, Still Mystery), Fundamentals/Mysteries, Noctumancer, Shadowcaster

Zaq
2019-11-27, 10:48 PM
Anyone seen my watch? Or my glasses?



Nix


https://i.imgur.com/hLPMtIi.png

Changeling Wizard 1 /Shadowcaster 2 Changeling Wizard 1 Shadowcaster 1/mystic theurge

or

Shadowcaster 5*/Mystic theurge 1

* Creeping darkness is invoked at the beginning of level 2 and level 5 to trade away wizard levels for shadowcaster levels.

Race: Changeling (eberron campaign setting)

Alignment: CN: we will be stealing a lot, so chaotic makes sense. We're gonna use necrocarnum, which is [evil] but we're only using them to steal, and if there is an in-adventure means to use non necrocarnum to get a sacred or insight bonus of +4 or higher to sleight of hand, in place of his epic feat, this character will do it. Because he isn't evil, just chaotic.

Abilities:
str 8, dex 16, con 13, int 16, wis 9, cha 14
At level 4, add 1 to intelligence

Backstory: Changelings have three suggested worldviews in the setting they come from. Nix was born to two "passer" channeling parents, and thus provide the psychic turbulence to drive him to become a truthseeker. Passers live a double life in a chosen identity in a culture. Hiding who you are socially is exhausting. So Nix works around that upbringing by hiding his presence altogether, through magic. Nix is a truthseeker, strongly preferring to be an undisguised changeling. He isn’t changing who he is, he’s just affecting whether or not you can even see him. After dropping out of magic tutelage, nix leaves his parents and is guided by a traveler to seek out shadow magic. This traveler is assumed by nix to have been guidance from the God of travellers, and thus has made him a true believer into following that god. Living on the lam equips nix with the art of pickpocketing which he quite likes. He justifies this by denying any belief in property rights, feeling that every situation has tools there to create harmony. This leads him to studying the absence of light as a utilitarian tool for every situation. Ownership is what he sees as the primary cause of wars, so he simply refutes the entire concept of ownership.

The build
The shadowcaster suffers from an anemic number of mysteries and fundamentals per day while being strapped to the hp and Bab of a weak chassis, along with the problem of armor interfering with casting.

To address the mysteries per day issue, at our first opportunity, we will be taking an item crafting feat to shore up the numbers of cool things that we can do per day. Scribe scroll is a default, but the crafting time is pretty horrendous and i cannot find RAW to support smaller time chunks being used to craft a scroll, meaning that you’re limited to a scroll per day, which interferes with adventuring, even if you put multiple spells on the same scroll. Brew potion negates the use of personal range spells and can’t be done in the wilderness. This leaves 3 options: craft wand (caster level 5 prereq), craft talisman (3.0 Oriental adventures) and tattoo magic (lords of darkness p.189).

We will aim to get Tattoo magic as early as possible: Its flavorful and it lists a 1 hour production time and it is cheap. So any unused mysteries will be stored for the next day as tattoos. That will help our anemic class abilities immensely, at the cost of gold.

Further, we will be using extensive opportunities to use the creeping darkness variant listed in ToM on page 115. This thing is a mess, as we’ll be taking precocious apprentice at first level to get a second level spell slot. More on that in a bit.

Let’s talk about shadowcaster’s strengths. The cityscape update (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307a) lists a new apprentice path that has the golden quicker than the eye mystery which grants a +5 to sleight of hand checks (+10 at level 5). Shadowcaster doesn’t get sleight of hand as a class skill. ARRRGH. On top of that, you can use it with the umbral hand ability at range. On top of that, there is the line of shadow feat as well as the bend perspective mystery. You can pick pockets from around the corner without line of sight. This is what we will build towards optimizing. Stealing everything we can see, from the vantage point of anywhere within 25’ that we have line of effect to.

So we need to get sleight of hand as a class skill. Changeling wizard sub levels do it! Plus, if we use creeping darkness, the precocious apprentice 2nd level spell will linger and have a 60% chance of working, despite not having any wizard level to back it up. Read that crazy feat again...unless we lose our arcane caster level 1 prereq. That’s where practiced spellcaster or magical schooling comes in, but we would need to use flaws to make that viable, and they come with a -1 elegance penalty. So instead, we are going to take the trait spellgifted, which gives us +1 caster level to one school of magic, and this only costs us .5 points in elegance. We’re OPTIMIZIN’!

Back to Spellgifted, this +1 caster level keeps our prereqs for precocious apprentice satisfied so that we can continue to cast invisibility (we can prepare it everyday because the illusionist sub level states that we treat all illusion spells as if they were spell mastered) so long as we roll a 7 or higher on our caster level check. Talk about meta-thematic: We even have shadow wizard levels….spoooky!

Plus, according to creeping darkness, you don’t recalculate skill points, and changeling wizard sub levels get 4 skill ranks per level. Loophole!!!! Errgh, I mean, it’s just a shadow of the experience of being a wizard.

So if we were to stagger wizard and shadowcaster levels, we can eke out up to 6 extra skill points on a shadowcaster 6 build. But, we are going to go mystic theurge because we explicitly can and the level 6 shadowcaster ability is total trash, and we need a caster level of 3 by third level to take the tattoo magic feat.

So here it is.

This build is best use in campaigns where your main antagonists use and rely on gear. Your main weakness is ghosts and animals, so make sure to hang out with people who can handle those threats.




Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Changeling Wizard (Races of eberron p.123), shadow shaper (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#illusionistVariants) (UA p. 63) Illusion Master (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#illusionistVariants) (UA p.63)
+0
+0
+0
+2
Sleight of hand 4, hide 4, k. Arcana 4, k. Religion 4, bluff 4, craft (painting) 1, concentration 4, decipher script 2, spellcraft 2
Precocious Apprentice (Complete Arcane p.181), Spellgifted (trait) (UA p.90) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm)
Dual specialization, 4 skill points, shadow shaper, summon familiar, Illusion mastery


2nd
Shadowcaster x2
+1
+3
+0
+3
Hide 5 (+1), K arcana 5 (+1), Spot 1 (+1), Move silently 2 (+2)
Silent Mystery (ToM p.138)
Fundamentals of shadow, Apprentice Mysteries, Bonus Feats


3rd
Shadowcaster
+1
+3
+1
+3
k. arcana 6 (+1), spot 3 (+2), hide 6 (+1), m. silently 3 (+1)
Tattoo Magic (Lords of Darkness p.189)
Umbral Sight


4th
Changeling Wizard Illusion Mastery
+1
+3
+1
+5
k. religion 6 (+2), sleight 7 (+3), bluff 5 (+1), hide 6.5 (+1cc)
Scribe scroll (b)
Dual specialization, 4 skill points, shadow shaper, summon familiar, Illusion mastery


5th
Shadowcaster (x2)
+2
+4
+1
+4
sleight 8 (+1cc), hide 7.5 (+1), spot 4 (+1)
move silently 4 (+1)
extend Mystery (b)(ToM p.136)
Bonus Fundamental, sustaining Shadow


6th
Mystic Theurge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/mysticTheurge.htm)
+2
+4
+1
+6
sleight 9 (+1cc), conc 5 (+1), decipher 3 (+1) hide 8 (+1cc)
Master pickpocket (City of Stormreach p.95)
dual spellcasting






[spoiler=epic feats]



epic F​eat Level
Feat
Prereq
Text blurb
Source
Page


1st
Line of Shadow
Any two Metashadow feats
1/day, apply this feat to a mystery which enables it to affect a target even if you do not currently have line of sight or line of effect. The target must still be within the spell’s maximum range, and you must have had line of sight and line of effect within a number of rounds equal to your Int modifier. The target gains a bonus on his save, if any, equal to the number of rounds since you had line of sight or effect. You cannot apply this feat to any mystery that requires a touch or ranged touch. Casting a mystery with Line of Shadow is a full-round action.
Tome of Magic
136


2nd
Shadow Familiar
3rd level shadowcaster
Obtain a familiar in the same manner as a sorcerer or wizard, but it possesses the dark template... takes 24 hours and uses up magic materials worth 100 gp. For the purpose of determining familiar abilities that depend on your arcane caster level, your levels in all classes that allow you to cast mysteries or arcane spells stack.
Tome of Magic
138


3rd
Uncanny Forethought
Spell mastery, Int 17
When preparing your daily allotment of spells, you can reserve a number of spell slots equal to your Intelligence modifier. As a standard action, you can use one of these slots to cast a spell that you selected for the Spell Mastery feat. The level of the slot used must be equal to or greater than the level of the spell you intend to cast. Alternatively, as a full-round action, you can use a reserved slot to cast any spell that you know. The spell is resolved as normal, but for the purpose of the spell, your caster level is reduced by two. The level of the slot used must be equal to or greater than the level of the spell you intend to cast.
exemplars of evil
26


4th
Shape Soulmeld
Con 13
When this feat is selected, choose a soulmeld from any class's soulmeld list. You can shape that soulmeld using the normal meldshaping rules (see page 49). Once chosen, the soulmeld granted by this feat can never be changed. Your meldshaper level for this soulmeld is equal to one-half your character level.
Magic of Incarnum
40


5th
Craft wand (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#craftWand)
Caster level 5
SRD
SRD
SRD


6th
Arcane Mastery
Ability to cast spells or use SLAs
You can take 10 on caster level checks (as if the caster level check was a skill check). You can use this feat even while under stress
Complete Arcane
73


7th
Darkstalker
-
When you hide, creatures with blindsense, blindsight, scent, or tremorsense must make a Listen check or a Spot check (whichever DC is higher) to notice you, just as sighted creatures would make Spot checks to detect you. You cannot hide in plain sight unless you have that ability as a class feature. In addition, you can flank creatures that have the all-around vision special quality.
Lords of Madness
179


8th
Trickery Devotion
-
Once per day as a standard action, you can create an exact duplicate of yourself up to 30 feet away. You can control this simulacrum's movements as a free action. The image becomes more "real" as you advance in level. This ability is usable up to a maximum of 1 minute per level each day. The simulacrum combines the characteristics of the silent image (PH 279) and unseen servant (PH 297) spells. Its hit points are equal to 6 + your character level. It ignores terrain effects and moves like an unseen servant, making no noise in the process, though it makes normal motions while traveling. If you have a fly speed, the image appears to fly when not in contact with the ground; otherwise, it walks on open air. You can do anything with this image that you could do with the unseen servant spell and are under the same limitations. When you attain 5th level, you gain more control over the simulacrum. At this point, it behaves more like a major image spell (PH 252), though it still performs actions like an unseen servant. As long as the simulacrum remains within 5 feet of your position (and you can direct it to do so as a free action), you can perform a Bluff check in combat as a swift action. You gain a +4 bonus on this check, which is opposed by your opponents' Sense Motive checks. If you are successful, your foes believe the image is you (and vice versa) for 1 round.
Complete Champion
63


9th
Iron Will (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#ironWill)
-
SRD
SRD
SRD


10th
Hardened Criminal
Iron Will
You cannot be intimidated. (Attempts to use the Intimidate skill against you always fail.) In addition, you can take 10 on any checks with one skill chosen at the time you take this feat, even under conditions when taking 10 would normally be impossible.
City of Stormreach
95






Level 1:
Changeling wizard (Races of eberron p.123) Ban necromancy, enchantment, & evocation
Illusionist variants (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm)
Shadowshaper (gain hide as a class skill) - lose scribe scroll
Illusion mastery (illusion spells are treated as having the spell mastery feat applied) lose bonus specialist spells

Familiar: Huitzel from dragon magic p.116 (+3 to sleight of hand checks). Now, the wizard class ability is called summon familiar, not retain familiar, so you might be able to keep this familiar when you succumb to creeping darkness, however, the familiar is based on “master class level”. Ask your DM. This might free up the shadow familiar epic feat that you will be taking later, thereby making your cool abilities come online faster. We are assuming, for the purposes of this build, that your familiar winks out while you don’t have wizard levels.

Precocious apprentice: invisibility (mastered thanks to the illusion mastery class ability).

Note: You may also prepare an additional 2nd level spell according to the changeling sub level. “A changeling wizard can prepare one additional spell per spell level each day, chosen from either of his specialty schools.” Illusion mastery likely cuts this out, however, “An illusionist using this variant automatically adds two illusion spells to his spellbook every time he gains a level that grants access to a new spell level.“ You could choose two 2nd level spells, but you’ll need to add a feat that allows you to swap them into your precocious apprentice spell slot. Uncanny forethought is one option, and it’s awesome, so that’s what we’re gonna do...eventually So for extra spell masteried 2nd level spells, think about blur, mirror image, minor image, fools gold (power of faerun), or blinding color surge (phb2) and choose 2.

This build chooses Minor image and blinding color surge.


You get all 0 level spells that you haven’t banned, so Silent portal, unnerving gaze, and ghost sound are mastered.
You get six 1st level spells: 3 + int mod (3)
Illusion spells mastered: Instant diversion, colorspray, silent image, ventriloquism, secret weapon, net of shadows

Silent portal will be helpful when you can reach DC 50 umbral handed night’s long fingered epic sleight of hand skill use, as you can cast it on a sheathed weapon to make it silent when you steal it from around a corner. Secret weapon will allow you to stash that epically stolen weapon on yourself, should you need to. Colorspray will help you survive to level 2.

Use a crossbow when you’re out of shenanigans.

Skills: We are focusing on Sleight of hand, so at level 1, you have: 3 dex + 4 ranks +3 huitzel +2 huitzel aiding another= +12

Skills 4 + 3 x 4=28
Sleight of hand 4,
hide 4,
k. Arcana 4,
k. Religion 4,
bluff 4,
craft (painting) 1,
concentration 4
decipher script 2
spellcraft 2

Level 2
Shadowcaster 2
We are using creeping darkness to replace the wizard level with a shadowcaster level. This means that we are a shadowcaster 2 with a second level spell slot devoted to invisibility that we can use with a caster level check of 8, which we cast with a caster level of 1 thanks to the spellgifted trait.

Fundamentals: Sight obscured, umbral hands x2

Mysteries: Quicker than the eye, bend perspective

Bonus Feat: still mystery

Because we have two mysteries, we have access to a bonus feat. We choose still mystery so that we can continue with the sneaky sneaky.

Note: I was researching if we could tattoo fundamentals, which are supernatural abilities that count as mysteries. See page 139, where fundamentals are referred to as mysteries twice. Lets reread that bonus feat section in the shadowcaster class ability section to see if we can eke out some more bonus feats. It appears that no, fundamentals although considered mysteries, do not count as being on a path, which is the basis of the gaining bonus feats.

Skills:
Ranks: 2 class +3 (int mod)

Hide 5 (+1)
K arcana 5 (+1)
Spot 1 (+1)
Move silently 2 (+2)

Sleight of hand = 3 dex +4 ranks + 5 sight obscured + 5 quicker than the eye = +17
Level 3
Shadowcaster 3
We survived to 3rd level! Time to take our third level feat. Tattoo magic (Lords of Darkness p.189) which we qualify for because our mysteries are at caster level 3. Now we can scribe our leftover daily mysteries into tattoos on ourselves, our familiar, and our allies. We can also scribe our invisibility spell if we’re feeling cheeky. This will greatly help our starvation of cool things to do in a day. Further, if you have leftover metashadow feats, you should be able to scribe metashadowed mysteries at no additional cost because metashadow feats are balanced, seeing as you can make wands, scrolls, and potions of metamagicked spells.

We get darkvision, YAY!

At this level, we are taking the steel shadows mystery, because our AC is 13 without it. At about this level you should be able to afford some shadowsilk (ToM p.155) leather armor and/or maybe a mithril buckler.

Skills: 5 ranks
k. arcana 6 (+1)
spot 3 (+2)
hide 6 (+1)
m. silently 3 (+1)
Level 4
Changeling Wizard 1
Illusion mastery variant

We’re back to taking a wizard level. With all of the benefits that come with it. We can cast any of our first level spells again, they're still mastered, at least by my reading of RAW. We get 2 more skill points than we otherwise would, which we'll get to keep when we creeping darkness again. We get our huitzel familiar back, with its +3 to sleight of hand and the ability to share our mysteries and spells with. And it can use expert assistance from rules compendium to aid another our sleight of hand checks. Bluff now lends a synergy bonus to sleight of hand.

We can master a handful of new illusion spells, including 2nd level ones. And we can scribe them as tattoos in our off time.

Add 1 to intelligence so that we can get uncanny forethought later.

Spells: Ban enchantment, necromancy, and evocation
All zero levels from unbanned classes
Six 1st level spells: Remember all those mastered illusion spells from level 1? You should still have access to those, I think. Anyway, this time around let’s branch out a bit.
Mage armor, lesser spiderform (drow of the underdark), blockade (complete scoundrel), protection from winged flyers (shining south), expeditious retreat. Keep this spellbook around, you’ll need it when you get to level 6 and beyond.
2nd level spells. Illusion mastery says to automatically learn 2 illusion spells every time you gain a level with access to a new spell level. Guess what? You just got access to 1st level spells. So we’re gonna choose some 2nd level illusion spells to add. Anything you didn’t choose back in level 1, you should take now.

Spellgifted means that you can’t cast any non illusion spells..

That is, unless you buy some caster level booster. Like Terran Brandy from BOVD p.45. Drinking some of that will allow you to cast 1st level spells, as it grants a +2 bonus to caster level.

Skills: 7 ranks: 4 + 3 int mod
k. religion 6 (+2)
sleight 7 (+3)
bluff 5 (+1)
hide 6.5 (+1cc)

Sleight of hand: 7 ranks + 3 dex + 5 sight obscured +5 quicker than the eye +3 huitzel +3 aid another +2 synergy (bluff) = +28
Level 5
Shadowcaster 5
Let's creeping dark that wizard level. Quicker than the eye is now a +10 bonus to sleight checks. We get a second level mystery, another 1st level and another bonus feat. We choose extend mystery so that we can get multiple uses of our abilities per casting while adventuring.

We will get sight eclipsed for the hide bonus as well as carpet of shadow for the battlefield modification.

As for your extra fundamental, if you need 3x more uses of umbral hand, get that. Otherwise, Caul of shadow will give a +2 deflection bonus to AC at level 6, and you can store it or an extended version of it in a tattoo for 12.5*6 = 75 gp a pop

Skills: 5 ranks

sleight 8
hide 7.5
spot 4
move silently 4

Sleight of hand: 8 ranks +3 Dec +5 sight obscured, +10 nights long fingers, +2 synergy (bluff)= 26
Level 6:
Mystic theurge
Read that text! The Shadowcaster it can be either the Divine or Arcane Caster in a Mystic theurge build. With precocious Apprentice supplying our 2nd level Arcane spell slots, and the retention of skill points from the Wizard levels, we fulfill all of the requirements to enter into the Mystic theurge Prestige class. And, unlike the noctumancer, we only need to select a class that we have previously had, not one we have levels in, to progress casting in. We will select wizard and regain the casting that we had at level 4 and level 1. Now we have no banned schools, and bucketloads of spell masteried illusion spells. You can make money scribing them into spell books and selling them for money make your Mysteries into tattoos. It is my advice not to sell that fool's gold spell however as you may destroy economies that you will rely on.

For our feat, we are taking Master pickpocket from city of stormreach p. 95. We can use free action sleight of hand checks at only a -10 penalty. Here is the text, in case the source is too tough.


“City of stormreach p.91: MASTER PICKPOCKET In Stormreach, there are thieves and there are masters of the craft. You fall into the latter category. You can steal anything from anyone at any time. Prerequisites: Dex 15, Sleight of Hand 8 ranks. Benefit: Your mastery of Sleight of Hand allows you to steal an object from an adjacent opponent in combat as a standard action without provoking attacks of opportunity. You can take anything the character has on his or her person provided it is not held in hand. If you are in a grapple, you gain a +4 bonus on the attempt. In addition, when you make a Sleight of Hand check as a free action, you take a –10 penalty rather than a –20 penalty on the attempt.”

We take the trail of haze mystery which will allow us to track anyone. Too bad we don’t have track.

Skills: 5 ranks 2 + int mod 3
sleight 9
conc 5
decipher 3
Hide 8

Sleight of hand: 9 ranks +3 dex + 10 quicker than the eye +5 sight obscured +2 synergy (bluff)= 29 With the master pickpocket feat, you can now succeed on a free action sleight of hand check (even through umbral hand!) on any roll that isn’t a 1. Remember when you took ranks in spot on a skill starved build? Start spotting stuff all over your opponents, and steal all of them.


Epic feat 1 and 2:

Line of shadow: Now you can use bend perspective to see from anywhere that you have line of effect to and then use line of shadow umbral hand empowered by quicker than the eye and sight obscured to steal stuff from out of sight. Shadow familiar grants you a dark huitzel with whom you can share spells, who therefor gets +15 to his +4 racial bonus to sleight of hand, his +2 dex modifier, and your 9 skill ranks, which gives him a +30 to sleight of hand checks. If he uses the aid another (expert assistance) during his turn to help you perform sleight of hand, you get a minimum of +5 before he rolls his aid another skill check, with the bonus becoming +6 if he rolls a 10 and +7 if he rolls a 20.

On top of that, If you need to steal more per round, he can use his own actions for sleight of hand instead of helping you, and he can fly, and you are able to share the invisibility spell. So, he can attempt a free action sleight of hand check (DC 40) with 50% success (1d20+30). Plus, and your huitzel can work together to do this stuff from afar, and your huitzel and you can communicate in language with each other, if youre sharing bend perspective, you can cover more ground.

Your slight of hand check is: 9 ranks + 3 dex + 10 quicker than the eye +5 sight obscured +2 synergy (bluff) +3 huitzel +5-7 expert assistance aid another = +37

That means that you can now make sleight of hand checks as a free action after 2 rounds of casting, plus if you check out page 133 of races of stone, you get unlimited uses of the conceal spellcasting skill trick, because it adds to the capability of the skill altogether. And now it’s time to check out epic sleight of hand. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#sleightOfHand)

DC 50 “Lift a sheathed weapon from another creature and hide it on the character’s person, if the weapon is no more than one size category larger than the character’s own size.”

Question, if you cast secret weapon, do you get +20 to this roll? You won’t know the answer until you try. If you can’t, however, it doesn’t matter much, so long as you roll above a 12, you’ll be able to pull this off. And thats before factoring in how you bought a dexterity boosting item by now. That is before you ctrl F’ed all of the likely books for sleight of hand goodies and found the filcher's friend in complete adventurer page 130 for another typeless +5 to sleight of hand checks.

Epic feat 3 & 4
Uncanny forethought (exemplars of evil p.126) as a full round action, you can cast a mystery out of your arcane spell slots. It says any spell you know. Your mysteries function as arcane spells. Do it. You can leave that cursed precocious apprentice slot open and put in any spell masteried illusion spell you know into there, without the caster level check issue, so far as I can tell.

Shape soulmeld (necrocarnum touch) is a feat that gives you a +4 profane bonus to sleight of hand checks. I think it does something else, and that something else is probably evil, so tread lightly. Did you get filcher’s friend yet?

Sleight of hand: 9 ranks + 3 dex + 10 quicker than the eye +5 sight obscured +2 synergy (bluff) +3 huitzel +5-7 expert assistance aid another +4 profane (necrotouch) = +41

Epic feat 5 & 6
Darkstalker and shadowcast.

You got a pretty good hide skill, why not use it. By now, you’ve probably been confounded by anti-sneak critters, and darkstalker makes you better at hiding from them. If they can’t see you, they can’t hit you as well.

Shadowcast is helpful, i think…
actually it isn’t really, cuz we got that sleight of hand freebie from races of stone. So let’s take arcane mastery, from complete arcane page 73. Now caster level checks are skill checks that you can take 10 on. No more spell failure chance from precocious apprentice.

Epic feat 7 & 8
Iron will and hardened criminal.

Errr…

Actually, let’s do Craft wand and Trickery Devotion.
Really? All that setup and im settling for a take 10 on any one skill (sleight of hand) at the cost of 2 entire epic feats. Ugh. Only do this if the DM is still sending enemies with gear at you. Otherwise, we need to diversify a bit to keep our survivability up.

Off the top of my head, I would say that trickery devotion is the way to go here. And maybe elder giant magic? What are the prereqs on that? Nevermind. Craft wand. That’s what we need. Some wands. I have to sort of edit that in earlier.

So around level 6 - epic feat 1 and 2, you should tell your DM about the variant of hewbert’s hall where you can go on an adventure to get access to a free item crafting feat. That’ll really help you survive this long. 40$ in real life pizza should about cover the bribe expectation of that actually working.

Epic Feat 9 & 10

Iron will and hardened criminal it is. Now we can take 10 on sleight of hand checks. Which means that we have an automatic 51 on sleight of hand tricks, so you can look at those epic sleight of hand skill uses and just steal stuff of a person. If you can buy a trip to the otyough hole for iron will as a free feat, consider grabbing quicken mystery instead.

Play tips: stay out of combat and direct social situations. At level 1 and 4 you have more spell utility, but you may need to be drunk on terran brandy to cast non-illusion spells. Colorspray is your big trick. After that, just spend a lot of time scouting, and use your familiar as much as you can. Mostly, focus on preemptively deny advantage to potential opponents by robbing them blind. Use your spells and skills to get places you shouldn't be and use them to gear yourself up and them down. Boosting Dex will help with saves, and filcher's friend from complete adventurer gives a +5 to sleight of hand checks. Wisdom and spot boosting gear are important. Get armor at your first opportunity that has zero armor check and arcane failure chance and just where it non-proficiently; same with a buckler.


“A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he or she is not proficient takes the armor’s (and/or shield’s) armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all Strength-based and Dexterity-based ability and skill checks. The penalty for nonproficiency with armor stacks with the penalty for nonproficiency with shields.”

Store all extra mysteries per day as tattoos as often as possible, even fundamentals. Do this until you get craft wand. Even if your caster level is just 1 on your wands, you’ll be a crapstorm of misplaced belongings. Free action sleight of hand checks are crazy, so you’ll have to work with the DM as how often per round you can be stripping your opponents naked of any belonging that they aren’t holding in their hands. Remember, you can pick pockets without using the umbral hand too. So if the bad guys get close, rob them blind before withdrawing.

Zaq
2019-11-27, 10:49 PM
Which shadow's hand? C'mon. The shadow's hand. There's only one. Like you didn't know that already.


The Shadow's Hand


You heard about that nut they're calling the The Hand? They say he's been beating guys up all over the harbor. The say the shadows listen to him. And he's got some big cat with him, a tiger or something.

Ebric snapped his club between the two brutes muttering to each other, jolting them from their conversation What I hear is two loudmouth oafs who believe whatever rumors the guards are spreading to stifle our business. Now get back to your watch if you want to get paid The two muscled thugs headed off to opposite sides of the dock, muttering to themselves as they did. Ebric let out a pained sigh. The mercenaries the Guild had hired may have been good in a fight. But the lot of them didn't a whole brain between them. Of course, Ebric himself had heard the rumors of The Shadow's Hand. And he had little doubt about the men who had been beaten; he'd seen them himself, after all. But a simple crook couldn't see past an illusion to save his life. The guard must have hired some 9-copper wizard to cover them during raids and strike some terror into the simple minded.

Ebric wasn't fooled. He'd brought along a wizard of his own to dispel any such enchantments tonight. As he walked along the dock, he nodded to the wizened man who sat on one of the crates being unloaded. With a nod back, the wizard begain to survey the docks. Suddenly, he gave a smile He just Darkened the far end. I think a couple of our boys are in for a surprise.. Ebric listened. Sure enough, he could hear the confusion of the slower mercenaries left back as easy prey. There was a deep snarling sound as well, bestial in nature. So, the guards had a new pet. The rest of the mercenaries and the Guild men took notice, exchanging nervous glances.

Take their cover away the next spell that's cast. Men, ready your bows Ebric commanded. The wizard nodded and Ebric slowly turned as his thugs drew back their arrows. Another patch of darkness appeared, closer this time. The old man cackled, spoke some ancient tongue, and the shadows disappeared.

In the dim torchlight stood a man dressed in grey and black, a long cloak, and his face hidden by a mask. A large cat stood by him and the criminals, even Ebric, let out a brief gasp. Its face had peeled back, revealing muscle and bone. Krenshar. Ebric knew it immediately. And he knew it was keeping his men from firing, even has he recovered. Before he could rouse them from their shock, the figure in black turned his hand toward Ebric's wizard, the shadows danced, and a bolt of darkness struck the man between the eyes. He tumbled to the ground from the crate, unconscious. Hell broke loose. Ebric's men regained their composure and fired, but shadow itself and the man in grey's own chaotic movements kept him from being struck. Those same shadows seized some of his men, ripped like tendrils from the grounds, and set the dock alight in some mad freezing flames. The krenshar and its master advanced and the last thing Ebric saw that night was the man's fists in a blur.

By morning, the Guild's shipments had been destroyed and the mercenaries, thieves, and smugglers tied together to be found by guard.


CG Human, Shadowcaster 5/Battle Dancer 1


Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Shadowcaster
+0
+2
+0
+2
Concentration 2, Hide 4, Listen 1, Move Silently 4, Spot 4
Skill Focus (Concentration),
Human Bonus: Darkstalker
Fundamentals:Arrow of Dusk, Caul of Shadow, Sight Obscured
Mystery: Voice of Shadow


2nd
Shadowcaster
+1
+3
+0
+3
Concentration 4, Hide 5, Listen 1, Move Silently 5, Spot 4
Mysteries Known Bonus: Favored Mystery (Carpet of Shadow)
Mystery: Carpet of Shadow


3rd
Battle Dancer
+2
+3
+2
+3
Concentration 4, Hide 6, Listen 3, Move Silently 6, Spot 4, Tumble 4
Martial Study (Shadow Blade Technique), Battle Dancer: Improved Unarmed Strike
Unarmed Strike (1d6), AC Bonus


4th
Shadowcaster
+2
+3
+3
+3
Concentration 4, Hide 6, Listen 4, Move Silently 6, Spot 4, Tumble 5

Mystery: Black Fire, Umbral Sight (Darkvision 30 ft)


5th
Shadowcaster
+3
+4
+3
+4
Concentration 6, Hide 6, Listen 4, Move Silently 6, Spot 4, Tumble 6

Mystery: Bend Perspective,
Bonus Fundamental: Black Candle


6th
Shadowcaster
+3
+4
+3
+4
Concentration 6, Hide 7, Listen 4, Move Silently 7, Spot 4, Tumble 7
Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance)
Mystery: Clinging Darkness, Sustaining Shadow (eat 1 meal per week)



Epic Bonus Feats:
Shadow Familiar
Improved Familiar (Krenshar)
Shadow Reflection
Favored Mystery (Bend Perspective)
Favored Mystery (Clinging Darkness)
Martial Study (Cloak of Deception)
Path Focus (Dark Terrain)
Greater Path Focus (Dark Terrain)
Shadow Cast
Favored Mystery (Black Fire)


Strength 14
Dexterity 14
Consitution 14
Intelligence 14
Wisdom 8
Charisma 15 (16)

At level 4, bump Charisma to 16.

As a somewhat gish-y build relying on Battle Dancer of all things, Shadow's Hand requires decent physical stats and a higher Charisma, both for DCs and AC. Int is exactly as high as I felt it needed to be for skill points and no higher, since Int provides no additional benefits past 13 to a Shadowcaster in an E6 game. Wisdom, thus, was the obvious dump stat. Fortunately, Will saves are good for a Shadowcaster and one benefit of this multiclass is good base saving throws.



Levels 1-2: Shadow's Hand can make life hard on foes with difficult terrain thanks to Carpet of Shadow. Arrow of Dusk can really come in hand in these early levels, working with Voice of Shadow to subdue rather than kill. Caul of Shadow provides a small AC boost if Shadow's Hand ends up in melee before he's ready. This should and can be avoided fairly well, though, thanks to Sight Obscured and the Hide skill. In fact, for these first two levels stealth is Hand's main dish, both for himself and allies. Darkstalker makes him hard to find even for those with special senses; useful at all levels, but especially as he faces greater threats. Sight Obscured allows him to boost the Hide checks of himself and others when necessary. Voice of Shadow can see use here as well: Halt an enemy to prevent them from revealing your location and help your allies beat them unconscious.

Level 3: Shadow's Hand can now deal real damage via fists and avoid blows better. Working with Caul of Shadow, his unarmored AC is a 15. Additionally, Shadow Blade Technique helps him hit more often and sometimes harder. Tumble lets him move in and out of combat more reliably. Thanks to his new martial arts techniques, he can really focus on capturing and subduing over killing.

Level 4: AC of 15 all the time, 16 when using Caul of Shadow, better DCs for his mysteries, and another BFC mystery, Black Fire. This one provides damage and with Carpet of Shadow helps him choose how to divide up the battle field and lets him do that a little more often. Now with 30ft of Darkvision for those poorly lit warehouses and secret lairs.

Level 5: Being able to see around corners is handy. Being able to see over walls is also handy. Bend Perspective lets The Shadow's Hand gain valuable intelligence in a limited area before proceeding. You only have so many Mysteries in a day, having some idea of if you'll need them and where to put them is great. Having smoke bomb... I mean, the Black Candle fundamental is also great. The Shadow's Hand can now throw down Darkness when and where he would like to sneak past enemies or as more BFC, to leave some enemies in the dark while he takes out their friends.

Level 6: The Hand has now adopted the darkness and apparently it's clingy. This is great, though! Immobilize enemies with Clinging Darkness. Throw down Carpet of Shadow to really make them struggle getting out of it. Assassin's Stance comes this level, too: punching people unconscious/to death has never been easier! Still, it would be easier to do it if someone could flank them. Some kind of sidekick...

Epic Feats:
Shadow Familiar provides a companion like a wizard or sorcerer's companion, but with the Dark template, making a far better sneak. When this feat first comes up, Shadow's Hand has a Dark Bat familiar that proves useful for a night scout. But something larger is necessary to help take full advantage of Assassin's Stance and to help The Shadow's Hand stay alive.

Improved Familiar gives us Grace, the Dark Krenshar. Flanking, intimidation factor, tracker. For The Hand's sake, Grace is mostly there to help with Assassin's Stance and to keep enemies busy during rounds where he needs to use mysteries and fundamentals. Obviously care needs to be taken to keep Grace alive, but keeping enemies separated from the conflict via mysteries and Black Candle should help see to that.

Shadow Reflection makes all AoO have a 50% miss chance. Couple with his ranks in Tumble, the Hand can weave in and out of combat as needed with significantly less worry that his foes will even get to roll to-hit.

Favored Mystery is necessary to provide more uses of mysteries, taking the untouched BFC mysteries and only utility mystery with this feat just makes sense. Immobilize more often, good. Get a heads up on rooms more often, good. And a little extra cold damage every now and then? Not bad.

Cloak of Deception seemed like an obvious choice after touching on Shadow Hand maneuvers twice; with a build that has several resources poured into not being seen, even a short duration of invisibility can be incredibly useful, both in and out of combat. Turn invisible when caught in the middle of a hallway and let a guard pass or disappear from view in a fight and either run or pop-up somewhere unexpected.

Path Focus and Greater Path Focus help The Hand's most used Mysteries stick and do their full effect.

Finally Shadow Cast can help eliminate AoO when you have nowhere to run off too; it doesn't invalidate Shadow Reflection, but if you don't even have to take the chance sometimes, it's really useful.

If often feel in this competition that Epic feats need to be looked at as a whole: you gain no new class abilities and too many feats are incremental. Shadow's Hand's epic feats increase his versatility while supporting his first six levels, making him a better fighter and caster over all. The only significant change is his familiar, but I feel it's justified in the build as a battle companion.



PHB
Human, Skills, Skill Focus

ToM
Shadowcaster, Fundamentals, Mysteries, Favored Mystery, Path Focus, Shadow Reflection, Shadow Cast, Path Focus, Greater Path Focus, Shadow Familiar

ToB
Martial Study, Martial Stance, Maneuvers and Stances

LoM
Darkstalker

Zaq
2019-11-27, 10:51 PM
If this weren't E6, maybe he'd go into Dark Reflections just for the name…


Smoke, Whisper Gnome Shadowcaster 6



Ability
Base
Racial
Levels
Final


Strength
8
-2

6


Dexterity
14
+2

16


Constitution
12
+2

14


Intelligence
16


16


Wisdom
10


10


Charisma
16
-2
+1
15





Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Shadowcaster 1
+0
+2
+0
+2
Hide +4, Move Silently +4, Concentration +4, Craft (Alchemy) +4, Spot +2, Spellcraft +2
Shape Soulmeld (Dissolving Spittle)
Fundamentals, Apprentice Mysteries


2nd
Shadowcaster 2
+1
+3
+0
+3
Hide +5, Move Silently +5, Concentration +5, Craft (Alchemy) +5, Spot +3, Spellcraft +2
Still Mystery
-


3rd
Shadowcaster 3
+1
+3
+1
+3
Hide +5, Move Silently +5, Concentration +5, Craft (Alchemy) +6, Spot +6, Spellcraft +3
Shadow Familiar
Umbral Sight (Darkvision 90ft.)


4th
Shadowcaster 4
+2
+4
+1
+4
Hide +7, Craft (Alchemy) +7, Spot +6, Concentration +5, Move Silently +5 Spellcraft +3, Knowledge (Arcana) +2
-
Bonus Fundamental


5th
Shadowcaster 5
+2
+4
+1
+4
Hide +8, Craft (Alchemy) +8, Spot +7, Concentration +5, Move Silently +5 Spellcraft +3, Knowledge (Arcana) +2, Ride +1
-
Sustaining Shadow (1 meal/week)


6th
Shadowcaster 6
+3
+5
+2
+5
Hide +9, Craft (Alchemy) +9, Spot +9, Concentration +5, Move Silently +5 Spellcraft +3, Knowledge (Arcana) +3, Ride +1
Favoured Mystery (Clinging Darkness)
-




Epic Level
Feat


1
Bonus Essentia


2
Share Soulmeld


3
Favoured Mystery [Clinging Darkness]


4
Grenadier


5
Mad Alchemist


6
Improved Familiar


7
Ability Focus [Clinging Darkness]


8
Shape Soulmeld [Kruthik Claws]


9
Martial Study [Cloak of Deception]


10
Extra Silence





[tr]
Level
Mystery
Fundamentals


1
Carpet of Shadow
Mystic Reflections, Umbral Hand, Sight Obscured


2
Bend Perspective



3
Black Fire



4
Piercing Sight
Sight Obscured


5
Clinging Darkness



6
Clinging Darkness




As a Shadowcaster, Smoke can only use Carpet of Shadow once per day. However, he's very sneaky with up to +20 or more on Hide, and solid Move Silently supplemented by Silence. Dissolving Spittle gives him a source of consistent damage output in a fight without having to commit, and he can add to it further with alchemical devices.

Smoke is a bit more consistent now, with a second combat power in Black Fire. He can relatively easily hit DC20 on his Craft checks now, which opens up a lot of control options like Smokesticks, Eggshell Grenades, Flashtubes and Alchemist's Fire. Bend Perspective and a Dark Bat familiar gives Smoke a ton of good scouting options, both for extending vision, and blindsense + a second scouting buddy with similarly excellent stealth abilities.

Taking Clinging Darkness twice, with Favoured Mystery, gives Smoke 4 uses per day of the effect, which lets him actually contribute well to battlefield control as well as just being a sneaky guy. He's also able to hit DC25 Alchemy craft now, just with Masterwork Tools and an Aid Another from his Familiar, giving him access to more tools like Sleep Gas, Thunderstones and Tanglefoot Bags.

With essentia available to invest into Dissolving Spittle, and share it with his familiar, Smoke now contributes a lot more heavily to the damage game rather than focusing on control, with two 3d6 acid ranged touch attacks each round and good Dex to hit with.

Improved Familiar lets Smoke upgrade from a standard Dark Bat to a Dark Night Hunter Bat. This has the major advantage of being Medium, which means he can use it as a mount. With a 60ft. Perfect fly speed and fantastic stealth skills, the pair can appear and disappear from the shadows and throw stuff at enemies. Grenadier and Mad Alchemist let Smoke disrupt the opposition more thoroughly, particularly spellcasters - the entangling penalties make it harder to escape from his 6/day Clinging Darkness, which in turn allows Smoke to apply more effects like Black Fire. Kruthik Claws give Smoke and his mount an extra +8 on Hide and MS if they're not in combat, and Cloak of Deception lets Smoke re-hide if he gets spotted, or get out of trouble if he's caught somehow. Unfortunately he can't benefit from Darkstalker because he can't apply it to his mount, but he can bob into range, throw stuff, and back off again (squares are only AC5, so the -4 for attacking while his mount runs is fine) to stay out of range of anyone who spots him.

Zaq
2019-11-27, 10:52 PM
I can't fault the audacity. I love when my chefs get gutsy.


Tawamios
The article which altered my ideas on shadowcaster
Unseelie fey sage dragonlance gnome Wizard 3/shadowcaster 3 that become shadowcaster 6 during the progression
Summer caress chosen for unseelie fey ability
If there are error in the formatting sorry but I have written this without the possibility to see in the site



Point buy
Final stats

Strength 10(2 points)
Strength 6(-4 racial)

Dexterity 15( 8points)
Dexterity 19(+4 racial)
Constitution 14(6 points)
Constitution 12(-2 racial)
Intelligence 16(10 points)
Intelligence 18(+2 racial)
Wisdom 8(0 points)
Wisdom 6(-2 racial)
Charisma 14(6 points)
Charisma 16(+2racial)
The 4th level point go to dexterity
Well where I should start for this build? From this assumption, the shadowcaster under level 7 are not good , so as ingredient for the E6 they are challenging . But even in a normal game they have problems… but I have encountered so many DM that have not read the Tome of Magic on all of his complexity and there are some tricks on the shadowcaster so I tried to make a build about these tricks.
The first trick that there is on the shadowcaster is on how they learn the mysteries. If you read at page 112 it says. “Within a category … you can only learn a mystery if you learned two mystery of a previous level...” and here I end the quote because I don’t know if I can copy all the paragraph. But the most important thing is the article that they used , that a , so they don’t have to learn two mystery of each level (except the last level of each category) but they only have to learn two mystery of the first level of that category so they could learn a level 3 mystery even if they only know one level 2 mystery. Basically it’s not necessary to learn two mystery of the previous level to learn a mystery of some level and I know that is the rule with which so many NPC shadowcaster are built but it’s not my fault if they used the wrong article .And that is important ! The next question that I posed myself when I discovered this trick was if they could learn a level 3 mystery at level 4 and I reached the conclusion that they could learn but not launch by the table (it’s quite an anomaly) but if someone want a mystery of level 3 3 times without any feat (or 6 times at level 7) that is good. Nothing prevent them from learning a level 3 mystery at level 4 but by the table they can’t launch (and even searching the errata did not give me any hint if this was illegal) And thanks to our chair that said that favored mystery apply to each instance is possible to have a mystery 6 time for day with favored mystery taken 3 times
In the creeping shadow there are other thing that are loose , the first is keeping the hp (no one said battle sorcerer?) that are boosted (a necropolitan wizard would gain hitpoint for example) another one is the feat substitution considering that quicken mystery need more feat that quicken spell but I did not apply to avoid book rain on me. And the third is the way they did not change skill leaving so a way to put so many knowledge on a shadowcaster for example
There was once a gnome from the world of Dragonlance that had as Life quest to know all he can on various arguments to be the strongest, and to rule other, because this gnome was evil , it was an unseelie fey but he wanted to be the gnome who knew more about each argument he choose , knowledge is power at the end, but each tale as a problem . He started as a wizard, a classic choice for his lifequest devoted to know more ,and more, but then a DM introduced the Tome that was prohibited for how many error there was, even with the tale of a class that normally could not work , the Tome of Magic. This DM was sad that no one wanted to use one class of the prohibited tome so he created a quest that if failed would start a conversion of each wizard in a certain area in shadowcaster, maybe with a loss of wisdom for the player and for the character. That gnome was among them , but before he would be converted he found that book and reading that he discovered some fault that helped him becoming one of the gnome shadowcaster who knew more. Even his name was altered to reflect his altered vision on shadowcaster . And with the lose of wisdom he choose to fight only using his punches even if he was not so strong


Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Wizard 1
+0
+0
+0
+2
Skill point 24((2+int )*4)
Knowledge religion 4, Knowledge arcana 4, Knowledge dungeoneering 4, knowledge nature 4, knowledge the planes 4, Intimidate 2
spell focus (enchantment)
Obtain familiar Scribe Scroll


2nd
Wizard 2
+1
+0
+0
+3
Skill point 6(2+int )
Knowledge religion 5, Knowledge arcana 5, Knowledge dungeoneering 5, knowledge nature 5, knowledge the planes 5, Intimidate 2.5




3rd
Wizard 3
+1
+1
+1
+3
Skill point 6(2+int )
Knowledge religion 6, Knowledge arcana 6, Knowledge dungeoneering 6, knowledge nature 6, knowledge the planes 6, Intimidate 3
knowledge devotion (religion)



4th
Wizard 3 /Shadowcaster 1
+1
+3
+1
+5
Skill point 6(2+int )
Knowledge religion 7, Knowledge arcana 7, Knowledge the planes 7, knowledge nature 7, knowledge dungeoneering 6 Intimidate 4

Fundamental of Shadow, apprentice mystery


4th
Wizard 2 /Shadowcaster 2
+2
+3
+0
+6
Skill point 6(2+int )
Knowledge religion 7, Knowledge arcana 7, Knowledge the planes 7, knowledge nature 7, knowledge dungeoneering 6 Intimidate 4
Still Mystery
Bonus feat/td]


5th
Wizard 2 /Shadowcaster 3
+2
+3
+1
+6
Skill point 6(2+int )
Knowledge religion 8, Knowledge arcana 8, Knowledge the planes 8, knowledge nature 7, knowledge dungeoneering 7 Intimidate 5

Umbral sight (darkvision 30 ft)


5th
Wizard 1 /Shadowcaster 4
+2
+4
+1
+6
Skill point 6(2+int )
Knowledge religion 8, Knowledge arcana 8, Knowledge the planes 8, knowledge nature 7, knowledge dungeoneering 7 Intimidate 5

Bonus fundamental


6th
Wizard 1 /shadowcaster 5
+2
+4
+1
+6
Skill point 6(2+int )
Knowledge religion 9, Knowledge arcana 9, Knowledge the planes 8, knowledge nature 7, knowledge dungeoneering 7 Intimidate 9
weapon finesse
Sustaining Shadow (1 meal/week)

6th
shadowcaster 6
+3
+5
+2
+5
Skill point 6(2+int )
Knowledge religion 9, Knowledge arcana 9, Knowledge the planes 9 knowledge nature 7, knowledge dungeoneering 7 Intimidate 8
spell focus (conjuration) of level 1
became path focus (touch of twilight)


Skill like this are cross classed for this level
1° favored mystery (umbral touch)
2° favored mystery( umbral touch)
3° favored mystery (umbral touch)
4° Trivial Knowledge
5° greater path focus (touch of twilight)
6° empower mystery
7° maximized mystery
8° quicken mystery
9° extend mystery
10° maximize mystery


1° level: Arrow of Dusk *3,Black candle
4° level: Black candle




Shadowcaster level
Mystery learned


Shadowcaster 1
life fades

Shadowcaster 2
steel shadows

Shadowcaster 3
flesh fails

Shadowcaster 4
umbral touch

Shadowcaster 5
umbral touch

Shadowcaster 6
umbral touch




Wizard level
Level 0 spell for day
Level 1 spell for day
Level 2 spell for day


Wizard 1
[td]3
2
-


Wizard 2
4
3
-


Wizard 3
4
3
2

I have created two level 4 5 and 6 because there is the conversion with the second shadowcaster level so I have to put something, the skill are the same, and only in one case I have put another feat to replace another one
We start as wizard and we will use our illusion spell like color spray or some useful illusion like silent image, we can take the swarm using burning hands but in the enchantment school we have sleep, and the power word as spell to do damage for example power word pain. The huge boost is given in one way from the abilities and all the knowledge that can be good out of combat, and the second is given by the unseelie fey because with some luck we could have good vision and the ability to fly (I have considered the worst result of the dices for this build) we have a spellbook and we will write our spell here, while the familiar depends on what happen with creeping darkness but it could be an idea to not summon it if we lost our experience points later , if we will not we can summon a raven to scout In the second level it doesn’t happen so much so the tactics will remain the same. Even if we have a low wisdom as sage gnome (or dragonlance gnome) we have a +2 on will saves that cover our very low wisdom
At this level we gain two things that help us the first is knowledge devotion that it could seems that doesn’t help but it helps because as shadowcaster we will not have many knowledge as class skill so it can help us . But for now it will be a help when we will use offensive spell that will need an attack roll maybe on dexterity. The second thing that helps us are level 2 spell we will put as many as we can in our spellbook even if we will not be able to cast them by the next level
The first level of the SI is taken, or better the first two level because we convert one level of wizard in one level of shadowcaster so now what we have? Well we don’t have so much but as unseelie fey at least we can start to work with that intimidate, and as sage gnome we can use these knowledge in a good manner. We even gain a DR against iron cold so we are more resistant . Using life fades is more something symbolic than anything else, we can do the same with some spell ,so it’s not so much, but useful if we want to torture someone, while steel shadows is good better than magic armor. The essence gives us the option to doesn’t use the spell as offensive because we can use arrow of dusk to do damage , and knowledge devotion I think should apply to that. Black candle is useful when we need to explore or to blind the enemy maybe they will not have darkvision but is a way even to infiltrate for example. We gain still mystery so at least when we will cast a mystery we will not need any concentration check and that will happen at the end.
Well we have 4 shadowcaster level and it is obvious that we will use touch of twilight mystery, the strangest thing is the mystery that we learn now. As I have said there is nothing that prevent you to learn a certain level mystery if within his category you have learned at least two mystery of a certain level . Then when we see the shadowcaster table we see that we can’t cast that, but it says that mystery cast as spell have only one use for day (above the table) so one could argument that he has a use this level 3 mystery , but I will not, is a strange rule that even only because it exists (and is not functional at the level that is taken) that it merits to be used (and later will be a boost avoiding us to take a feat) . This is the last chance to put spells in our spellbook , but is not a problem and for two knowledge we have put the last ranks because they are cross class for shadowcaster.
Now we are useful! We have various mysteries that can do damage over a day , and the one that we have taken at the previous level now is 3 times for day and if we have luck it should last enough round or enough strike to be more precise. And we have converted all of our wizard level in shadowcaster level , and remember that spell focus that we took? Now it becomes path focus doing even more considering our main mystery. And knowledge devotion? It boost our attack roll on this mystery, but strength is not a thing in that we are good so now we take weapon finesse that should apply on this .We have an high dexterity, and we are small so another boost to our attack roll. Sustaining shadow will not do so much but it could happen that we can’t lunch even in the real life happens. And darkvision is good we will not need any light. And in the course of these level we did not take any multiclass penalty thanks to the favored class of the dragonlance gnome. Remember why I said that the spellbook needed so many spell? Well now we can sell it , and as for the familiar if we lose the last wizard level it should become a normal animal, so maybe can be sacrificed for someone who want or we can eat him (a free meal no?) We can intimidate as well as we use knowledge check with three knowledge. Summer caress and our DR helps us in melee ,and we can use armor and shield to better help us (even if steel shadow could give a better shield bonus)
I grouped these feat because they are the same and they do the same function . They boost our main mystery , they gives us more attacks, they boost the DC of the mystery, and they give us more use at the end. By chairman confirm (now I can’t copy that but is in one message I have) favored mystery apply on each instance of the mystery and we have 3 instance of that so we have now 6 use of that mystery (if this doesn’t apply welll we have still 9 arrow of dusk that can helps us in a combat and we can intimidate if nothing work while we have 4 use of umbral touch) For now it will last 10 strike so it should be enough.
This is one motivation why I wanted to use a gnome. We can roll each knowledge two time, and we have something that base on knowledge check, knowledge devotion. On our main knowledge we have +15 so it will be a +2 in each time. Trivial knowledge helps us to boost that +2 in a +3 if we roll even only one time an 11 or more. On the knowledge where we are weak it help because we have +13 so with that it rarer that we will have only a +1 as boost. Trivial knowledge is a way to be more useful in combat and out of combat
Why now greater path focus? Well because maybe the DC start to be some low , and with this we have another attack that helps us, at the end is a way as another to be able to do more damage in combat
I putted them in an all category because the objective of these feat are to boost umbral touchh and we could do a nova if we want. Let’s think about maximize mystery, it maximizes the damage that a mystery do , so each strike we will do with umbral touch will be of 30 of damage that it’s not bad and we have two maximize mystery because maybe we will need it during a combat but there will be more combat later (for example in the room before boss) Empower mystery is the weak version of maximize so it could be used. Quicken mystery and extend mystery have another function. It could happen that we need to strike fast , without losing the turn at buffing ourselves, maybe in a surprise attack and here is that quicken mystery come and is useful (a quickened umbral touch) Extend mystery finally is a way to be prepared for long fight and if we combine a maximize mystery with extend mystery with quicken mystery we have the same time spend for a maximize mystery but double damage in total.

Average AC = 10+ 1 (small size)+ 5 (dexterity)+2 (summer caress deflection bonus)+4 (mithral chain skirt for example)+ 1 (buckler) = 23 without magic items 25 if we use steel shadows
Saves
Fortitude 5(base)+ 1 (constitution)+2 (summer caress)=8
Reflex 2 (base )+5 (dexterity)+ 2 (summer caress)=9
Will 5 (base)-2 (wisdom)+2 (dragonlance gnome)+2 (summer caress)=7
Knowledge check on planes arcana or religion =9 base+ 4 intelligence+2 gnome =+15 (with a 1 we gain a +2 with knowledge devotion with 11 a +3 and we roll two times thanks to trivial knowledge)
Knowledge check on nature or dungeoneering =7 base+ 4 intelligence+2 gnome)+13 (with a 1 we gain +1 with knowledge devotion with a 3 we gain +2 and with a 13 we gain a +3 and we roll two times thanks to trivial knowledge)
Intimidate =8 base+ 4 unseelie fey +3 charisma=15
Damage: I consider knowledge devotion as 2.5 for the damage
Using umbral touch without feat= 5d6+knowledge devotion =around 20 + fortitude check DC 18(10 base+3 (half level)+ 3 (charisma)+2 (focus path and greater focus path) to avoid slow
Using umbral touch maximized =30 + knowledge devotion=around 32.5 + fortitude check DC 18 to avoid slow
Using umbral touch maximized and empowered=30+5d6/2 + knowledge devotion=around 41.5 + fortitude check DC 18 to avoid slow
It last 11 minutes (6 shadowcaster level +3 favored mystery+2 greater path focus and path focus) so around 11 attack
Attack roll=3 base+ 5 (dexterity with weapon finesse)+1 small size +2 (knowledge devotion)=+11
Total damage umbral touch summed all round
Normal umbral touch= 20*11 =220
Umbral touch maximized=32.5*11=357.5
Umbral touch maximized + empowered (and probably quickened to use as a full round mystery)=41.5*11=456.5
Umbral touch maximized + extended (and probably quickened to use as a full round)=32.5*22=715
Umbral touch maximized +extended+ empowered +quickened (near impossible but if we have problem we could try)= 41.5*22=913

Shadowcaster: Tome of Magic
Metashadow feats: Tome of Magic
Mysteries and essence : Tome of Magic
Wizard : SRD
Dragonlance gnome: Dragonlance Campaign setting
Unseelie fey template: Dragon Magazine Compendium
Trivial Knowledge: Races of Stone
Knowledge Devotion: Complete Champion
Favored Mystery: Tome of Magic
Path focus : Tome of Magic
Greater Path focus: Tome of Magic

Zaq
2019-11-27, 10:53 PM
This goes beyond shadowcaster. I think what we have here is a shadecaster.



Umbra Penn DarkFont

Neutral Human Shadorficer

artificer 1/shadowcaster 5

Str: 8
Dex 16
Con: 10
Int 16
Wis: 8
Cha: 16

Add 1 to dex at level 4.




Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Artificer
+0
+0
+0
+2
(4+3+1)x4+2=34: Concentration 4, Craft (scroll) 4, Decipher Script 1 (cc), Disable Device 4, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 4, Knowledge (arcana) 4, Search 4, Spellcraft 4, Use Magic Device 4
Ocular Spell, Apprentice (spellcaster), Scribe Scroll
Artificer knowledge, artisan bonus, disable trap, item creation, Scribe Scroll, craft reserve 20, infusions


2nd
Shadowcaster
+0
+2
+0
+4
2+3+1=6: Concentration 5, Craft (scrolls) 5, K. (Arcana) 5, Spellcraft 5, spot 1, Use magic device 5

fundamentals of shadow, apprentice mysteries


3rd
Shadowcaster
+1
+3
+0
+5
6:Concentration 6, K. (arcana) 6, Profession (waiter), spellcraft 6, spot 2, Use magic Device 6
Path Focus (Dark Terrain), Sculpt Spell
bonus feat


4th
Shadowcaster
+1
+3
+1
+5
6:Concentration 7, Hide 1, K. (arcana) 7, Spellcraft 7, Spot 3, Use Magic Device 7

umbral sight


5th
Shadowcaster
+2
+4
+1
+6
6: Concentration 8, K. (Arcana) 8, Spellcraft 8, Sleight of Hand 1 (cc), Use Magic Device 8

bonus fundamental


6th
Shadowcaster
+2
+4
+1
+6
6: Concentration 9, K. (arcana) 9, Spellcraft 9, Use Magic Device 9, Search 5(cc)
elder Giant Magic
sustaining shadow




epic Feats
1. Spell Focus (Necromancy)
2. Black Lore of Moil
3. Greater Path focus (Dark Terrain)
4. Etch schema
5. Explosive spell
6. Split ray
7. Reach Mystey
8. Weapon Focus (ray)
9. Point Blank Shot
10. Dead eye

Mysteries (and level obtained)
Life fades (2)
Carpet of Shadows (3)
Flesh fails(4)
Blackfire(5)
Clinging Darkness(5)

Fundamentals
arrow of dusk
Umbral hand
Mystic reflections



Sources:
Classes:
Artificer (page 27 eberron Campaign Setting)

Feats:
SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm)
Weapon Focus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponFocus) (see also page 73 complete arcane),
Point blank Shot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#pointBlankShot),
Scribe Scroll (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#scribeScroll),
Spell Focus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#spellFocus)

Complete Arcane
Sculpt Spell (page 83)
Black Lore of Moil (page 75)
Split ray (page 83)
Explosive spell (page 79)

Tome of Magic
Path Focus (Dark Terrain)
Greater Path focus (Dark Terrain)
Reach Mystery

Lords of Madness
Ocular spell

DMG2
Apprentice

Secrets of xendric
Elder Giant Magic

Magic of eberron
Etch schema

Dragon Compendium
Dead eye

Equipment:
Winch crossbow (masters of the wild page 26)
Quill of scribing (Page 133 of complete mage)
infinite scrollcase (magic item compendium page 162)
spellsight spectacles (magic item compendium page 138)
Caster's Shield (SRD)



A Canticle of Shadow
Level 1:
There I was, a young technician going to the big city for the first time to make my lot in life. I had this slip of paper from an uncle’s friend telling me to go to this place, "Dungeon Master’s Guide 2" to get a mentor. So, apparently this firm is so successful they franchised to a second location, or something. Well, all of the mentors up for grabs were ill-fitting for an artificer of scrolls. I remember them grilling me about infusions, and me explaining that they're magic, but not arcane or divine magic, but operate as conduits of magical energy. They acted like a lightspell went off an fetched me this black robed guy who insisted his name was Mentazz Shadowfury. They said he was a shadowcaster and that he uses neither divine or arcane magic and that this would be good fit. It wasn't a good choice to acquiesce. I was a kid dammit.

Mentazz was weird mentor. He made me stay in a cave for a few months to “get accustomed to shadow power” which got boring. So I studied slimes and muck, and deal with these onslaughts of little beholderlings. Ugh, it was terrible. He didn’t teach me a thing for months, and all I left with was how to deal with terrible underdark critters, including dissecting, prepping for food, and using the bits of them to store spell powers that I read off of scrolls. It’s weird, i have this metamagic scroll infusion, and apparently if you drink enough beholderkin bile, you can start storing scroll spells in your eyes. It's delicious. It's like if you milked a pistachio. Anyways, I could store scroll spells in my eyes for like 8 hours. Crazy. Mentazz didn’t teach me a thing other than I had to cling to what I already knew, plus learn extraneous weird stuff to make this work.

Mentazz had this thing about him where he would act like he was the most amazing magic user in the world, talking about walking on the edge of light and darkness like some sort of sorry sack bard. Ugh. And he was explaining to me that in the entire world of e6, he might be the pinnacle of shadowcaster power. He told me that once I understood the fundamentals, that the power of shadow would be at my beckon and call. And this was my assigned mentor, my uncle was funding this apprenticeship, and I didn't want to disappoint him, so I played along, I’ll learn to be a shadowcaster, it’s basically the same thing as I was doing with the whole not arcane divine magic thing being used to affect the universe minus the ease of doing it like a normal person.

Mentazz, that spazz, called his spells, “mysteries”. What a loser. Did he run out of adequately edgey nouns? Apparently he learned it from his “Tome of Magic”. So I began an adventuring side-hustle, you know, in hopes of making a backup plan.

Level 2: Creeping Dorkness

Mentazz, the lurking sneak would slurk into my life to surprise me with “shadow quizzes” to teach me shadowcasting. It all clicked when we worked together to make a scroll with a “mystery” on it because, you’re gonna think this is funny, “he didn’t have enough things that he could do in a day.” Poor bastard. Once I prepped one, I understood how it worked and I was excited to see what possible new synergies between shadow and crafting could be pioneered for the first time! If you're a gnome, shut up and quit snickering, I was basically a kid at this point.

Listen, I'm not old, or wise, but this is wisdom: Just because it’s exciting to learn about, doesn’t mean that it is necessarily worthy of your study.

So I followed the guy and I wracked up these shadow “fundamentals” real fast. I learned to make non-lethal arrows as a supernatural shadow power, and use shadow to make a strong wizard cantrip, and something else. And the mystery, the one mystery, that’s all a shadowcaster gets. I know wizards get a spellbook with like six different abilities, and I have access to all of the basic spellcasting mechanics in the world as an artificer, but Mentazz was like, “NO, the tome of Magic says that you may only have one!

So I went right to my adventurers campaign setting guidebook to find ways to weasel out of this or infuse it with some practical ability. And I discovered a potential argument that you can make at the dungeon master guide headquarters. Not the franchise location. In the artificer guidelines, They said to me, verbatim, “An artificer receives a pool of points he can spend instead of experience points when crafting a magic item. Each time the artificer gains a new level, he receives a new craft reserve; leftover points from the previous level do not carry over. If the points are not spent, they are lost. An artificer can also use his craft reserve to supplement the XP cost of the item he is making, taking a portion of the cost from his craft reserve and a portion from his own XP.”

I took notes. Shadowcasting is a hard and dark and lonely road, alright. Ugh, I sound like him. It says specifically this, each time the artificer, which i am, gains a new level, which i did because the fundamentals demonstrate it, I receive a new craft reserve. Which, when I started, was 20. Now you can petition the dungeon master to follow the rules, as written, because promises are important, and give me a new craft reserve because I have gained a level. Just not as a purebreed artificer. I’m not arguing that I get more because I gained a level, just what i was given as a 1st level artificer of excellent standing. Those 20 points should be filled up. Apparently, it depends on who you get to hear your petition, and there is no standard.

Any ways, remember the scroll scribing I do, and how i spent that time knuckle deep in aberration research, apparently they are compatible with mysteries and fundamentals. I cracked the code, by accident, while mentaz was amazed that I could write things down to use them later. I could store a mystery in my eye so long as I made it into a scroll first. And the tome of magic section on scrolls says that I can use my scribe scroll to scribe scrolls of mysteries. And if i can scribe scrolls of mysteries, I can metamagic that scroll with my infusion. There for I can have ocular mysteries streaming out my eyeballs if i want. Pretty wicked for a shadowcaster. Maybe I should change my name to “eyeshadow.” Pffffft. Bwa haha. Yeah right.

I got a mystery called “life fades” Oh my DOG! What is it with the secret commitment to non-violence with these shadowdweebs? Kill the threat already. Listen evil Orc, I have four non lethal attacks that i can use every day. Don’t shake in your boots so violently.

So I can put nonviolent shadows into my eyeballs and fire them at people who frustrate me enough to attack, but not kill. Highlight of my apprenticeship.

I can’t believe I followed him. I could be brewing potions right now. I have to adventure to pay for scrolls so that I can successfully adventure as a shadowcaster. I took a job as a waiter just to cover some shadow-scroll-casting hijinx. I realized a week later that Mentazz worked at the same place. It’s his “profession.”

Level 3: Sculpting the dark
Mentazz silently hovered over to me one day and said that I was ready to learn the next mystery, from the dark terrain discipline, and that the act of learning it will imbue me with a magic feat. It was a mystery called carpet of shadows. It’s 5 foot by 10 foot rectangle of difficult to walk over shadow stuff. That’s all it does. I had to tinker with it, and if i put it into a scroll first, i can really get some cool shapes by sculpting it with metamagic scroll infusion. I can make a 120’ by 5’ line of shadow rubble, or a 20’ radius spread emanation. I really focused on the dark terrain path. I had to. I had so little else to work with.

Level 4: The darkness sees you
Eventually, I was able to see in the dark as well as an elf. I know the questions you have and the answer is Nope: it's not the first requirement to walk the line between light and darkness. Doesn’t come free while studying shadows when you start. You have to master three mysteries before you can see on a moonless night. When they call themselves shadowcasters.

Mentazz returned me to the “touch of twilight path” to learn a mystery called “flesh fails.” By bahamut’s beard, I swear these names are all purple prose.

It’s a cool mystery, I basically choose to make someone’s body fail. I have no idea what that has to do with shadow. But don't worry! it's all kosher, shadows are involved. The cool thing is that I can store it in my eye, if I cast it from a scroll or, and this is gonna get wild...I bought an ancient winch crossbow, and I had to find a place called “Masters of the wild” to purchase it. Any way this thing really hampers you if you get hit; It removes like a third of the efficiency of an average human’s movements. But it’s a really exotic weapon. Then I remembered my weapon augmentation infusion notes! I read about the Ancient warrior’s tome of battle and the “aptitude” blades, and i just put the aptitude augmentation on the winch crossbow, which takes all of my knife training and proficiency turns it into crossbow skill. Exotic weapon proficiency hurdle bedamned!

Then I can use the weapon augmentation infusion to infuse an arrow or a bunch of arrows, I’m not sure of the rules and the artificer codex is silent on weapon augmentation of ammunition, although it does say that the weapon must be wielded, thrown, or fired. Spell storing is a +1 enchantment that you can put onto an arrow. And if you put a flesh fails spell on a bunch of winch crossbow bolts, because you successfully argued at the dungeon master's guide house that a block of 20 bolts was a standard for weapon enchantment.

Between that winch crossbow and flesh failing, you can be knocking low agility humans out of the game in a single hit.. A sturdy human athlete would be as clumsy as fat dragon by one hit, and then you can finish them off with an eye ray. It’s still non-lethal, but it’s devastatingly effective in a single daily combat.

I mostly used these tricks and still make scrolls of first level spells of every other class to solve basically all of my non-shadowcaster based problems, because, like mentaz, I spent egregious amounts of time trying to use shadowcasting more. The darkness...just doesn’t give enough.

Level 5: Fundamentally sculpting blackfire

I learned a new fundamental. I also learned “black fire” which I sculpt from scrolls because the shape of the mystery is weird and insufficient to keep yourself alive in a dangerous world. A 40’ cone of cold fire is far more effective than the 4 small campfires of cold.

Level 6: elder scrolls online!
Scribing the same scrolls all of the time was killing me. I needed to find a way to accumulate the power to create schema’s. I read about them in the “Magic of eberron” artificer monthly. Only the most amazing of primitive snowcasting casters were capable of making them on the world of e6. And giants had big magic cajones, so I delved and delved finding a way to accumulate magic power enough to have resetting scrolls. And I found it. It’s an ancient secret of xendric, the elder giant magic. It takes a lot of concentration, but I think I am almost there.

Level 6.1-6.2
Mentazz says that I can't go any further and that I need to accumulate more feats to augment my shadowcasting further and that I too, can now be a mentor and that we are peers now and we have a special connection. I'm resentful that I don't have a homunculus or a workshop making steampunk utopia an option.

I'm shadowcasting instead.

So, focusing on the utility of flesh fails, I do something I never thought I would, I studied necromancy, in depth. And it pays off when I discover the completely arcane metamagic of the black lore of moil. It costs some money to make these weird little bone talismans, but they massively increase the potency of flesh fails. It’s like, it was designed to empower necromancy to pull away from a generalized life force of the target inclusive of luck and such, but when applied to the flesh fails mystery, it appears to rip the ability of the body to move entirely away, almost as if it is draining a different resource, a resource pool of dexterity if you will.

Level 6.3-6.4
I returned to studying dark terrain, and, paired with the secrets of the elder giants I accumulated enough power to etch schemas. They're 16 times more expensive than a scroll, but the refresh everyday, so I can make more uses of infusions I know as well as mysteries. I did it, made massively powered technology capable of making shadow casters obsolete.

I could make a schema of each of my mysteries! Then I could create a schema of each of my mysteries with my metamagic knowhow applied by casting the schemas with metamagic infusion. And then I can make schemas of those metamagicked schemas with even more metagic applied.

Levels 6.5-6.7

The metamagic infusion ability allows me to make choices. So I went about increasing the number of choices that I could make. Did you know that you can make a scroll with a metamagic enhancer attached? A tradition arcane or divine spell, I’ll have you know, requires a greater investment of energy to create. If I were to create an arbitrary system, say by ranking spells by level of difficulty ranging from zero to nine, adding a metamagic to a first level spell can make it as difficult to create as making a basic scroll of fireball, which I reckon would be a third level spell in this arbitrary hypothetical system.

But “mysteries” aren’t arcane or divine spells. Mysteries have what we’ll call “metashadow” enhancements that can be learned at great effort to be added on top of them to augment how the mystery manifests. And when you make a scroll of a mystery with a metashadow effect “baked in”, as it were, there is no commensurate increase in difficulty. So I worked really hard to develop the ability to turn my life fades and flesh fails mysteries into streaming rays of pain. I call this metashadow feat “Reach mystery.” So I can scribe them into scrolls as ray attacks, and then, intead of using the secrets of the beholders to store them in my eyes as rays, I could use my metamagic scroll infusion to split those rays in twain, thereby doubling my power output in a given six second block of intense combat situation.

I did some digging around and found a treatise entitled papyrus and ink (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?528234-Papyrus-amp-Ink-A-Player-s-Guide-to-Scrolls-for-the-Aspiring-Spell-Scribe), in which is described a number of fantastic helpers for my particular schtick in the world of shadorficing. The caster’s shield (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm#castersShield) is something that I played with. So if you make a scroll of metashadowed life fades, and you use metamagic scroll infusion to store that spell as a split ray reach life fades in your shield, which is a nice back up plan. You can then go on to add black lore of moil by casting that spell from your shield into another scroll. If I had to judge the effectiveness of that, if an average human has, say a dexterity score of 12 on a 20 point scale where zero is a coma and a 20 is an elven spell dancer, each ray would drain 4-10 of these arbitrary dexterity points, reducing an opponent or possibly two, to a puddle or two of nothing. And if they still continue to stand, the encumberance of the the winch crossbow might be able to bind up to another 4 of these dexterity points.

Using the same metamagic stacking technique it becomes possible to make my clinging darkness or black fire mystery get sculpted into a huge area as we cast it into another scroll/schema. From there we can metamagic it again as we cast it into another scroll/schema with the explosive spell technique that I learned from the tome entitled Complete arcane. It’s crazy with clinging darkness, you make this blanketing 40’ cone of immobility that shoves people out, where they remain immobile outside of the range of effect of the cone. The same technique with black fire is just as effective.

Levels 6.8-6.10
From here, I returned to studying how to hit people with rays and winchbolts. I focused on the weapon of rays, seeing as how I now have multiple per day. I could always aptitude my winch crossbow to gain proficiency and move my weapon focus over. Then I focused my studies on hitting things close to me at point blank range, when I’m in the most danger. Then, I learned from a tome called the “dragon compendium,” a technique called “dead eye” with allows me to add my natural agility and dexterity to the damaging effects of my attacks. In the case of flesh fails, this means that I’m adding 75% efficiency to the anti-agility effects. So a twinned flesh fails can limit an athletic opponent to coma status. And if i use spellstoring molian fleshfails bolts in my winch crossbow, I surmise that the effects on my opponent would be represented by the following formula: 4 (base) +3 (dead eye) +1d6 (moil) +4 (winch) dexterity penalty, where 1d6 is a randomly generated power fluctuation caused by using the secrets of moil that can between 1 and 6 additive. A more expensive moilian bone component could, theoretically, lift the damage another 1d6.

Papyrus and ink:
I had a Quill of scribing on my wish list for centuries, i swear. This thing makes life so much simpler. Page 133 of complete mage
An infinite scrollcase from the magic item compendium page 162 is very helpful. So are the spellsight spectacles page 138.

Notes:
I may be able to use my artificer skill to craft scrolls of mysteries I don't know personally, just like every other artificer. If so, it might have been more worthwhile to take transdimensional metamagic instead of explosive spell, because if i can use the night's long finger's mystery, I could use a scroll of umbral hands (metamagic infusioned to be transdimensional) to steal from people's extra dimensional storage.

Zaq
2019-11-27, 10:55 PM
There you go! Six shadowcasters! I honestly expected about half that amount, so I'm genuinely happy right now. You guys/gals/others always make me proud. Really great stuff here.

Now it's time for the judges to tear 'em apart! Who's judging? I know a lot of folks in the US have a long weekend, so I wanted to make sure that the builds were up in time for that. (Speaking of which, I need to get back to prepping my own feast for tomorrow, so the table's gonna come later.)

Have fun!

PoeticallyPsyco
2019-11-27, 11:49 PM
Two builds using the creeping darkness mechanics! That was my idea (Kobold Sorcerer 2/ Shadowcaster 1 to Sorcerer 1/ Shadowcaster 3/ Noctumancer 2 with Greater Draconic Rite of Passage to get 2nd level spells and 3rd level mysteries) but I came up with idea too late to flesh it out into anything more interesting than that.

The designers showed a rare degree of foresight in specifying that you can't trade away a level that grants you features you already used to qualify for something, though I would have preferred a rule along the lines of "Any classes, feats, or similar that require as a prerequisite something you've traded away via creeping darkness cannot be used unless and until you meet the prerequisites again."

Falontani
2019-11-28, 03:10 PM
My idea was a Changeling Rogue/Changeling Wizard that used creeping shadow to pick up 5 Shadowcaster levels and use sneak attack with a good number of Flesh Fails uses. I was going to apply sneak attack to the stat damage. Then I read I believe in Complete arcane that stat damage doesn't work like that but couldn't figure out how it did and got too busy to continue researching

daremetoidareyo
2019-12-02, 04:23 PM
Do we have any judges who want to trudge?

Zaq
2019-12-07, 10:14 AM
Reminder: judging a round of Iron Chef provides, on average, half the XP you need to level up!

Vrock Bait
2019-12-07, 07:05 PM
Reminder: judging a round of Iron Chef provides, on average, half the XP you need to level up!
*looks at Player’s Handbook* Next level is an odd level of Fighter. Ew. Sorry.

I kind of wanted to post a build this round, but I went back to ToM and realized I had gotten mysteries all wrong.

MinimanMidget
2019-12-07, 10:07 PM
Do we have any judges who want to trudge?

If no-one else has stepped up a week from now, I'll finally have time and energy to judge. I'm not confident of my ability to judge this particular round, but if no-one else has by then I'll give it a go.

Zaq
2019-12-13, 08:41 AM
Happy Friday! This week has been crazy for me and, separately, for many of the people I care about. Everyone’s had a different reason why the week’s been crazy, but we all agree that it’s been crazy. I hope you’ve all had a good week—and if it’s been crazy for you too, well, I hope the end is in sight!

This is your periodic reminder that we still need one or more judges! Who wants to step up and become an instant authority figure? Put it on your résumé!

Quentinas
2019-12-16, 01:04 PM
So there are no judges or they are hiding in the shadows so the leaderboard will remain a mystery? And if yes of which path?

MinimanMidget
2019-12-16, 05:06 PM
I'm working on it. I just figured if I didn't say anything, we might get multiple judgments.

MinimanMidget
2019-12-21, 11:02 PM
Sorry for the slow judgment, this was a seriously tricky round to judge.

Note on Improved Familiar: If you plan on taking Improved Familiar, don't talk about using a familiar before that. Even if you didn't mind the xp loss (which, incidentally, could arguably mean you can't get your last E6 feat), you have to wait a year and a day between familiars, and in most campaigns that's...an entire campaign, not one or two levels.

Note on Favored Mystery: Yikes. So, Favored Mystery says that if you choose a mystery that you cast as a supernatural ability, you get an extra use per day, but "this feat does not otherwise increase the number of times per day that you can cast the chosen mystery". Which leaves me in the dark (pun intended) on whether you're meant to get the extra uses from upgrading from a spell to an SLA and so on. Ruling from the chair is that it does.



Whisper Gnome is an optimization staple, and perfectly suited for the Shadowcaster. (-0.5)

Noctumancer was one of two builds that jumped out at me when I was trying to come up with an entry. On the other hand, Beguiler isn't the most obvious entry, even though it pairs well with Shadowcaster. (+0)

Overall: 2.5


You've focused a lot on Arrow of Dusk, but it's not a particularly powerful attack, and on top of that you only have 6 uses/day. Afraid of the Dark and Mesmerizing Shade are both pretty decent abilities, but you only have 1 use/day of each of them. 4 silence uses/day isn't bad either, if situational. You mention using Capture Magic's Shadow via UMD, but your UMD bonus is only good enough to fool you into wasting actions and gold on items you can't reliably use. That said, dispel magic is on the Beguiler spell list, so you don't actually need UMD to use scrolls or wands of dispel magic anyway. You also have 3 levels of Beguiler spellcasting, but you don't talk at all about what you plan to do with them. You'll probably be able to contribute in the first couple of fights in a day, but you'll run out of steam pretty quickly. (-0.5)

Defensively, your Fort and Will are okay. Your Ref is low, although as you noted, Action Before Thought will help with that (although you neglected to mention the 1/encounter limit). Medium armor will give you decent AC, especially when you add the shield bonus from Steel Shadows. However, Battle Caster doesn't give you proficiency, so you're stacking non-proficiency penalties with armor check penalties. You don't have much hp to speak of, either. Of course, all of this is somewhat obviated by your intention to remain hidden all the time. That said, one of the easier ways to deal with hidden opponents is to use AoE effects, so you may inadvertedly be causing your enemies to target your weak Ref save. Overall, your survivability is good enough, I think. (+0)

Outside of combat, you're very sneaky, but not much else. Your familiar will make a decent scout (better than you, anyway) with alternate movement modes and at least some Spot/Listen. Your racial SLAs will probably come in handy. Your Bluff score is high enough to count for something, but you're hampered by your lack of resources - every mystery you use to boost your skills outside of combat is one you can't use in combat, obviously. Once again, you have 3 levels of Beguiler spellcasting, but you haven't said anything about what you plan to do with them. (-0.25)

Overall: 2.25


See note on Improved Familiar above. (-0.25)

I really don't like Precocious Apprentice. I could make a case for "Noctumancer requires the ability to cast 2nd-level arcane spells, and Precocious Apprentice only lets you cast a 2nd-level spell", but this is all ground that's been trod before. Let's go with "It's probably rules legal, but definitely inelegant" and move on. (-0.25)

Noctumancer doesn't actually give bonus fundamentals - that's a Shadowcaster class feature, so you couldn't have taken both Arrow of Dusk and Afraid of the Dark at level 5. (-0.25)

Favored Mystery will upgrade your mysteries from spells to SLAs, not to Su abilities. (-0.25)

Overall: 2


Only half your levels are actually in Shadowcaster, although Noctumancer sort of counts. Enough that I'm not going to penalise you here, anyway. (+0)

Almost all of your abilities either come from Shadowcaster or boost your Shadowcaster abilities, so you're doing well there. Ordinarily, your 3 levels of Beguiler spellcasting would count against you here, but since you didn't say anything about what you were doing with them, and lost out in the Power category as a result, I'm not going to penalise you for abilities that you didn't actually benefit from. (+0.5)

Overall: 3.5

Total: 10.25




Changeling is a really cool and underused race (+0.5)

Creeping darkness shenanigans was one of two builds that jumped out at me when I was trying to come up with an entry, and two entries went with it. (-0.25)

Optimizing Sleight of Hand to steal everything within 25 ft. isn't exactly usual, though. (+0.5)

Overall: 3.75


Stealing everything around you is a cool trick, and you're great at it, but it's situational. Outside of that, you have carpet of shadow 1/day (plus some uses from crafted items). You have access to a heap of illusion spells, but you're seriously short on slots to cast them with. You're going to be using that crossbow a lot more often than you'd like. (-0.5)

Defensively, your saving throws are all pretty low, as is your AC. You don't have much hp to speak of, either. You've got a decent Hide score, but it's not high enough to be your primary defence. (-0.5)

Outside of combat, stealing everything around you is still a cool trick, but it's also still situational. Those illusion spells are definitely handy, but you still don't have many spell slots to draw from. Other than that, you've got a decent Hide score, but your Move Silently is too low to really be reliably sneaky. You don't have the Spot or Listen to effectively scout, either, and your familiar isn't much better. (-0.5)

Overall: 1.5


I really don't like Precocious Apprentice. I could make a case for "Mystic Theurge requires the ability to cast 2nd-level arcane spells, and Precocious Apprentice only lets you cast a 2nd-level spell", but this is all ground that's been trod before. Let's go with "It's probably rules legal, but definitely inelegant" and move on. (-0.25)

There's also a separate question of whether Mystic Theurge can progress a class that you no longer have. Your argument that the text doesn't imply that you have to have the class, just that you must have belonged to it before you took Mystic Theurge, is...pretty good, actually. The table does say "existing", but text trumps table, so I'll give you this one. (+0)

A trait, as you say, is an automatic -0.5. (-0.5)

On the other hand, Spellgifted just doesn't qualify you for Precocious Apprentice. "Add 1 to your caster level when casting spells from one school of magic" isn't even close to "arcane caster level 1st". Even if it was, Precocious Apprentice also requires "Spellcasting ability (Int or Cha) 15". While you have Int 15, once you don't have any wizard levels, it isn't a spellcasting ability anymore. (-0.5)

Tattoo Magic is...a 3.0 feat that was never updated? It's also a crafting feat, as is Craft Wand. Just to be clear, my problem with crafting feats is the same as familiars - the contest rules aren't clear on how xp works, and whether you can afford to lose some. There's also potentially an issue with gold, too. My general rule when judging is to allow mundane items and ignore any magic items, since most builds don't assume they have access and we want a level playing field. There's obviously a big difference between "my character can craft these items" and "my character wants to buy these items", but I still feel weird about assuming you can fund your crafting, but others can't buy magic items. (-0.5)

Uncanny Forethought requires the Spell Mastery feat, which you didn't take. Even if Illusion Mastery counted, you dumped it along with your wizard level when you took the creeping darkness option. (-0.25)

Overall: 1.25


You (creepily) end up with 5 levels of Shadowcaster, and Mystic Theurge means it's essentially 6. (+0.5)

Most of your stuff is about boosting your Sleight of Hand tricks, and there's no denying that it's one of the Shadowcaster's abilities, even though it's not a class skill for them. Your spellcasting isn't a Shadowcaster ability (obviously), but the focus on illusions is certainly thematically appropriate, and you're not really leaning on it that much anyway. (+0.5)

Overall: 4

Total: 10.5




Human is always an obvious choice. (-0.5)

A Shadowcaster gish? Using Battle Dancer, no less? I guess Christmas has come early (only by 5 days, though). On top of that, you've written yourself some pretty great fluff. (+1.5)

Overall: 4


You've got quite a few tricks here. 3/day Arrow of Dusk, 3/day Black Candle, 1/day Voice of Shadow, 3/day Carpet of Shadow, 3/day Black Fire, 3/day Bend Perspective, 3/day Clinging Darkness, 1/encounter Shadow Blade Technique, 1/day Cloak of Deception. And, of course, punching people in the face is a trick that works all day, although the attack bonus on your unarmed strikes isn't great. A krenshar is definitely not useless in combat either. Overall, though, you have a plethora of tricks, and something to fall back on when you run out. (+0.75)

Defensively, your saving throws range from mediocre (Fort +6) to plain bad (Will +3). Your AC is okay, but going into melee with it and your hit point total is a pretty scary idea. With your focus on BFC and hit-and-run stealth, it's not as bad as it could be, but you're still definitely in trouble if you get into melee with something that knows what it's doing. (-0.25)

Outside of combat, The Shadow's Hand doesn't really have a lot to offer. Decently stealthy, but your Spot/Listen numbers are too low for effective scouting. Your krenshar isn't much better, although it at least has both scent and Track. (-0.5)

Overall: 3


See note on Improved Familiar above. (-0.25)

Assassin's Stance is a 3rd level stance, requiring IL 5, but your IL is only 3, meaning you can't take it. (-0.5)

Overall: 2.25


5/6 of your levels are Shadowcaster. (+0.5)

Everything except your Battle Dancer level and your ToB feats is Shadowcaster. That said, you got your gish abilities entirely from outside Shadowcaster, and it's a decent portion of both your strategy and your build's identity. (-0.5)

Overall: 3

Total: 12.25




Whisper Gnome is an optimization staple, and perfectly suited for the Shadowcaster. (-0.5)

It's weird to be considering giving an Originality bonus for taking all 6 levels in the SI. Being weird is kinda the Shadowcaster's whole schtick, though, so I guess it makes some sense. But anyway, I generally try to adhere to a personal rule of "One Thingy, One Bonus" to go with the official "One Mistake, One Penalty" rule, so this'll have to wait for the UotSI category. (+0)

Dissolving Spittle is a standard method for getting a basic attack, especially in Iron Chef E6. It's just so pefectly suited to the E6 environment. (-0.25)

That said, alchemy isn't something you see very often, and it's a pretty cool way to pick up some extra tricks. As a side note, you made a gnome alchemist, and picked one of the only gnomes who doesn't get a bonus to it? Weird choice, that. (+0.75)

Overall: 3.5


Clinging Darkness is definitely one of the better mysteries available within E6, so 6 uses/day is not bad at all. With 1/day Carpet of Shadow and Black Fire on top of that, as well as the alchemical goodies you can craft, you've got a reasonable amount of BFC. 4 silence uses/day isn't bad either, if situational. Dissolving Spittle from you and your familiar gives you an all-day basic attack that does decent damage, too. (+0.5)

Defensively, you have okay Fort, and mediocre Ref and Will. Your AC is terrible, and your hp pool isn't much good either. Of course, you're planning on both flying and being stealthy, and you have the numbers to back it up, so it usually won't matter much. (-0.25)

Outside of combat, you're very sneaky, but not a lot else. Your Spot score is decent, if a little low to be the party's primary scout, but you have no Listen. Your familiar has some of both, though. Your racial SLAs will probably come in handy. There are probably some alchemical items you can craft that would help you contribute outside of combat, but you haven't mentioned them. (-0.5)

Overall: 2.75


See note on Improved Familiar above. (-0.25)

You didn't list sources. At all. If I'm honest, I'm really sad about this, because I was kinda rooting for you. If you'd only used stuff from Core and ToM (since that's where the SI is from), I maybe could have been lenient here, but you didn't. (-1)

I'm not a big fan (in the context of IC contests) of taking a creature with Improved Familiar that isn't explicitly stated to be an option, since it requires DM buy-in. Night hunters are mentioned to sometimes serve as familiars, so it's a little better than if you just picked a random creature, but on top of that, it's also from non-updated 3.0 material. (-0.25)

Overall: 1.75


All 6 levels in Shadowcaster, with no creeping darkness in sight. (+1)

Alchemy isn't naturally a Shadowcaster thing, but it does get Craft in-class (like almost every class in the game), and it does tie in neatly with the BFC that seems to be one of Shadowcaster's strengths (relatively speaking). Dissolving Spittle has nothing to do with Shadowcaster, other than covering up its biggest weakness. Everything else is straight Shadowcaster. (+0.25)

Overall: 4.25

Total: 12.25




Unseelie fey dragonlance sage gnome? Yeah, I didn't see that one coming. (+0.5)

Creeping darkness shenanigans was one of two builds that jumped out at me when I was trying to come up with an entry, and two entries went with it. (-0.25)

Overall: 3.25


You're all about Umbral Touch, and it's surprisingly good, actually. It does decent damage, slowed is seriously nasty, and you get 6 attacks with it per use (and 12 uses per day, too), so it doesn't suffer nearly as much from the Shadowcaster's typical lack of longevity. Knowledge Devotion boosts your accuracy and damage, and all those metashadow feats let you boost it further. It's limited in that it's a melee attack, and Spell Resistance is a problem, but it's a pretty decent thing to have as your schtick. Life Fades and Flesh Fails are both okay, too, even if you can only use them 1/day. (+0.5)

Defensively, your Fort and Ref are both mediocre, and your Will is terrible. Your AC will be pretty great while Steel Shadows is up, and on the low side of okay without it. You noticed the hp trick, but didn't actually use it, so you don't have much hp, either. These are all problems, but they get a lot worse, because Umbral Touch is a melee attack. You have no ranks in Tumble, no Spring Attack or equivalent, so every time you want to hit someone with Umbral Touch, you're looking at taking at melee attacks. Slowing enemies helps, of course, but overall I just don't see you surviving. (-0.75)

Outside of combat, you're the party encyclopedia. You'll even be able to make almost all of the untrained checks for the knowledges you don't have trained. As a side note, putting even 1 rank in them would probably have been a good idea, since you've got decent numbers even with only 1 rank. You've got a nice Intimidate total, too - it's hard to be the party face with Intimidate alone, but it'll give you something to do when the situation arises. (+0.25)

Overall: 3


So, unseelie fey. No listed LA, sample character has LA+0, LA- templates are unplayable, etc. Let's skip ahead and go with "legality is questionable, inelegance is certain". (-0.25)

Moving right along, "you can only learn mysteries of a new level if you have learned at least two mysteries of a previous level". I...actually find your logic perfectly reasonable, and I'm happy to give you this one. The example they gave in the text doesn't contradict you, either. (+0)

Minor editing errors - you took off one of your Intimidate ranks in the final row of the table. Similarly, Spell Focus (enchantment) turned into Spell Focus (conjuration). No big deal, and I'm not penalising for it. Just something to be aware of. (+0)

Overall: 2.75


You (creepily) end up with 6 levels of Shadowcaster. (+0.75)

In the end, the only thing your wizard levels did for you was get you knowledge skill ranks. Those are primarily fuel for Knowledge Devotion, and it (and both of your other non-Shadow Magic feats) is just boosting Umbral Touch. The result is that you are a Shadowcaster through and through, if an extremely focused one. (+0.75)

Overall: 4.5

Total: 13.5




Human is always an obvious choice. (-0.25)

An Artificer dip, with no creeping darkness or Noctumancer. Some very unexpected feats. Not to mention some extremely sassy, and yet incredibly relatable fluff. (+1)

Overall: 3.75


Crafting mysteries into scrolls so that you can apply metamagic to them is a clever way to boost the Shadowcaster's abilities. Ironically, though, you suffer from the same problems as the Shadowcaster itself - you only have 3 infusions per day. On top of that, the metamagic scroll infusion has a 1-round casting time, and (for you) only lasts a single round, so it takes you 2 rounds to use this trick in combat. Anyway, your main trick is Dex damage, which is an infamously useful trick. Ignoring all the rules problems with it (we'll get to those in Elegance), the big drawback is that (unlike, say, shivering touch), you can't stack it. So if your total Dex damage isn't enough to get a creature down to 0, you're going to have to kill it the old-fashioned way. The lower Dex will make that easier, of course, but against a lot of enemies it won't make much of a difference. It's hard to judge your actual combat power, because it's largely going to be determined by how much crafting you get to do in advance. (+0.75)

Defensively, all of your saving throws are pretty low. Your AC is terrible, and your hit point total is pathetic. Crafting requires gold and xp, and you're extremely likely to get murdered anytime you try to get either. (-1)

Outside of combat, you have ranks in a lot of skills, but none of your totals are high enough to be reliable. You mention crafting 1st-level spell scrolls to solve your problems, but that means that your power is directly determined by the amount of crafting you get to do. (-0.5)

Overall: 2.25


You're leaning pretty heavily on crafting scrolls and schemas. Just to be clear, my problem with crafting feats is the same as familiars - the contest rules aren't clear on how xp works, and whether you can afford to lose some. Your craft reserve argument isn't too bad, but it honestly doesn't matter - 20 xp, once per level, is just not enough to fund the amount of crafting you're planning on doing. There's also potentially an issue with gold, too. My general rule when judging is to allow mundane items and ignore any magic items, since most builds don't assume they have access and we want a level playing field. There's obviously a big difference between "my character can craft these items" and "my character wants to buy these items", but I still feel weird about assuming you can fund your crafting, but others can't buy magic items. (-0.5)

The winch crossbow is non-updated 3.0 material, and the aptitude trick, while totally legal, I certainly find inelegant. You also definitely can't affect ammunition with personal weapon augmentation, since lesser weapon augmentation specifically says that it works the same way, but can also affect ammunition. (-0.5)

Dead Eye specifically adds to damage rolls made with ranged weapons, not spells, so it won't add extra Dex damage. Black Lore of Moil, on the other hand, does add damage to spells, but it specifically adds negative energy damage, not Dex damage (or unspecified bonus damage, which would arguably work). (-0.5)

Black Lore of Moil requires caster level 7th, and Etch Schema requires caster level 10th. Your writeup seems to suggest that you're using Elder Giant Magic to get around this. However, Elder Giant Magic only increases your effective caster level for the purposes of casting a single spell. Not only that, your caster level is 5, so even if Elder Giant Magic worked the way you want, it would still only get you to a total of 8, not the 10 you need. (-0.5)

Overall: 1


5/6 of your levels are Shadowcaster. (+0.5)

You're doing a lot of non-Shadowcaster stuff, but it's all in the cause of getting more out of your Shadowcaster abilities. (+0.5)

Overall: 4

Total: 11

Zaq
2019-12-22, 08:22 AM
Thanks a ton, Miniman!

I’m flying out to visit my family for the holidays in a couple hours, but I expect to still have a computer. We might be able to sneak in the start of another round before the new year...

I’ll leave the floor open for disputes, but if you’re thinking of sending one in, please remember to read the new(ish) rules for disputing. I’m going to actually enforce ‘em this time.

DeTess
2019-12-23, 05:44 AM
Hey Zaq, how are you in building time for the upcoming round? If you want, I have time to sub in for a round as chairwoman to run a Truenamer round.

Quentinas
2019-12-26, 09:44 AM
No please not a truenamer Round near everything except a truenamer round . I would accept even a samurai , a healer or a battledancer round but not a truenamer round and i would like not a sohei but for that i could have an idea

Thanks Miniman for the judging , and it is the first time that someone said that favored mystery give more use of the mystery to be a spell like abilities or a Sup
Generally the DM with which i have played when i take favored mystery says that i have the same use like the other mysteries of that category

Zaq
2020-01-03, 10:15 AM
Hey folks!

Sorry for my silence. I've been out of town for almost two weeks now, enjoying the holidays with my family. I'm currently rocking out to amaaaaaazing vidja game music at MAGFest* (my people! I have found my people!) and I'm basically ignoring the internet. Still, I made a commitment when I opened this contest, and I'm gonna keep it running!

Two quick disputes:


Whoops, no idea how I missed sources. It's in the stuff I originally created, but missed on it when I sent it to Zaq, my bad.

Night Hunter Bat is listed as an Improved Familiar option (at caster level 5) in FRCS, page 35.

Regarding out of combat utility, Smoke also has Piercing Sight and Bend Perspective for additional perception bonuses, on top of his Spot modifier, 90ft darkvision and his familiar's blindsight. In terms of perceptive ability he's got a lot going for him.

Editorializing note: I debated for a while about if I wanted to post this. Per the new dispute guidelines, if it had only been for the last bit about out-of-combat utility, that would fall under "it is the chef's job to ensure that the build is adequately explained at the time of submission," but since we've got a clear RAW dispute about whether night hunter bats are legal as improved familiars, I'm allowing this. (Note: dear judge, my editorializing note should not be construed as an argument for or against you responding in any specific way. Since I posted it, I posted it. Ball's in your court to respond or dismiss as you see fit.)

I'd like to open a discussion here: Is it appropriate, in the future, for me to snip out the pieces of disputes that clearly don't meet the disputing guidelines and just post the pieces that do? That would kind of represent me saying that if I post a dispute, I've "approved" of it, but with the new disputing guidelines (heretofore lightly enforced, but I do want to ramp that up for everyone's sake), that's basically what's going on. This contest is always a work in progress and I do care about the team's opinions! Yes, you're all my team. That's legit how I think about you. I would describe this in a job interview if I had the chance. For real.

Since we're being a bit loose with the disputing guidelines, I'm going to post this one just because it makes me laugh. This straight up does not meet the disputing guidelines (see the "questionable RAW" and "chef's responsibility" clauses), but dammit, this is funny. (See my comment on the editorial note above: this should not be construed as an argument for or against a specific judge response. I'm being lax on the new guidelines this time around. )


Dearest Administrator,

The correspondance from the shadowcasting competition has dismayed me as much as my choice of profession! I will elaborate on how, because complaining will demonstrate my devotion to the shadowcasting path, which is unquestionably the hallmark of one's experience navigating the magics of darkness.


Black Lore of Moil requires caster level 7th, and Etch Schema requires caster level 10th. Your writeup seems to suggest that you're using Elder Giant Magic to get around this. However, Elder Giant Magic only increases your effective caster level for the purposes of casting a single spell. Not only that, your caster level is 5, so even if Elder Giant Magic worked the way you want, it would still only get you to a total of 8, not the 10 you need. (-0.5)

I wouldn’t expect a nonshadowcaster to understand the ways of darkness. Bwahaha. So, seeing as how I’ve studied the elder giant magic, and applied the lessons to my dark terrain mysteries, I can absolutely conclude that I’ve amassed enough power to etch schemas. Here is my shadow reasoning, which is way superior to normal reasoning. If I had to calculate a “caster level” to represent my raw magical talents, and there is an arbitrary requirement for etching schemas that requires what I would eyeball as being 10 caster levels, I absolutely reach this threshhold with the dark terrain path.

Look at it this way, If Mentazz, a full e6 shadowcaster has...let’s say 6 caster levels, I have 5 shadowcaster caster levels, because I started my career as an artificer and then learned the terrible ways of darkness. From there, I really focused on the dark terrain path, I would say that I had a path focus...nay...a greater path focus! Let’s say that that adds 2 caster levels to my ability to cast dark terrain mysteries, which, for some shadowy reason, are cast as arcane spells. That brings me up to a caster level of 7. From there, I have the added secrets of elder giant magic! If I had to apply what the elder giant magic does to augment my spellcasting, I would describe it as spending anywhere from 6-18 extra seconds concentrating to lift the power of the mystery, which, is cast as an arcane spell. The power lift depends on how much time is spent concentrating, and each 6 second block would lift that caster level by 1. If I apply this to my greater focused dark terrain mysteries, I achieve the power threshold to etch a schema, as according to this entirely arbitrary system of “caster level” is the minimum power threshhold to understand the magic schema creation. It’s like I’m casting with the combined power of 1.666666667 Mentazzes. I’m sure my mentor would love being used as a measurement of casting power, you know, because of the vanity.

Anyways, I don’t think the schemas care whether or not I have the caster level power all of the time, they just care that I’m capable of achieving a threshhold of magical might; Which I am, because I’m awesome.


Anyway, your main trick is Dex damage, which is an infamously useful trick. Ignoring all the rules problems with it (we'll get to those in Elegance), the big drawback is that (unlike, say, shivering touch), you can't stack it.


You deal either 4 points of Strength damage, 4 points of Dexterity damage, or 2 points of Constitution damage to the subject; you choose which kind of ability damage when you cast the mystery.

Dexterity damage stacks with dexterity damage. Cuz it’s damage, not a penalty. Which means that the winch crossbow dex penalty stacks on top of that because it’s a penalty, not damage.

Which brings us to the black lore of moil. Is negative energy damage limited to what we’ll call...i don’t know...Hit point damage? Is your perception of negative energy such that it cannot apply to dexterity damage? What a limited non-shadowy take on necromancy! And if the spell does not deal any “hit point” physical damage at all, wouldn’t the negative energy deal the same exact type of damage as the mystery to which it is applied to?

As far as dead eye is concerned, can I not treat touch spells or ray spells as weapons for the purpose of feats like weapon focus? I believe i read that in the complete arcane supplement. Just shift around some weapon focus with the aptitude infusion and some guantlets on to make it apply to touch.

-Sincerely,
Umbra P. Darkfont

P.S. thank you for your efforts judging this. As someone well versed in meagerly rewarding efforts, I feel a special kinship with you.


Let's keep the discussion going. I'd love to hear what you think about the proposed "I'll snip out the good bits" protocol for disputes, and of course you're always welcome to speculate upon and/or lobby for the next ingredient! My goal is to post the new contest on Monday or Tuesday.

*Note: despite the currently unfortunate name, MAGFest is a music festival and has nothing to do with US politics. For real. But if any of you are currently there and you want to hang out and put a face to a name, lemme know...

MinimanMidget
2020-01-03, 10:30 AM
Just a quick update, since Zaq seems keen to keep things moving: I'm currently travelling. I will respond to everything when I can, which will (with 99% certainty) be in about 36 hours.

MinimanMidget
2020-01-05, 04:24 AM
Night Hunter Bat is listed as an Improved Familiar option (at caster level 5) in FRCS, page 35.

So it is. Although if I wanted to be pedantic, I could point out that the Improved Familiar feat has been updated in 3.5, so its entry in FRCS isn't technically valid. I'll give you this one anyway, I guess. (+0.25)


Regarding out of combat utility, Smoke also has Piercing Sight and Bend Perspective for additional perception bonuses, on top of his Spot modifier, 90ft darkvision and his familiar's blindsight. In terms of perceptive ability he's got a lot going for him.

Night hunter bats have 180-foot darkvision, but they don't have blindsight. Piercing Sight and Bend Perspective are...okay, but they're both 1/day for you, and they're not exactly game-changers. No change.


[Lots of text about caster level] I’m awesome.

There's a ton of arguments I could make here, but I'm going to go with the quickest one - it's dodgy, and you know it. No change.


Dexterity damage stacks with dexterity damage. Cuz it’s damage, not a penalty. Which means that the winch crossbow dex penalty stacks on top of that because it’s a penalty, not damage.

Yep, no idea where I got that one from. Sorry about that. (+0.25)


Which brings us to the black lore of moil. Is negative energy damage limited to what we’ll call...i don’t know...Hit point damage? Is your perception of negative energy such that it cannot apply to dexterity damage? What a limited non-shadowy take on necromancy! And if the spell does not deal any “hit point” physical damage at all, wouldn’t the negative energy deal the same exact type of damage as the mystery to which it is applied to?

I already addressed this explicitly, but just for good measure: "Negative energy damage" means something specific. If you're not sure what that is, here's a hint - it's a lot like "fire damage". I'll let you figure out the difference. And if you want an example of how this works, this is exactly how sneak attack works with spells that deal ability damage - it adds negative energy damage, not extra ability damage.


As far as dead eye is concerned, can I not treat touch spells or ray spells as weapons for the purpose of feats like weapon focus? I believe i read that in the complete arcane supplement. Just shift around some weapon focus with the aptitude infusion and some guantlets on to make it apply to touch.

Wow, really? You really want to do this? If you really had looked this up in Complete Arcane (like I did), you'd have found out what it has to say about it:


All such spells deal damage as spells, not weapons, so Strength modifiers to damage and magical effects that increase weapon damage (such as the bard’s inspire courage ability and the prayer spell) don’t increase damage from a weaponlike spell.

"But wait!", I hear you say, "it also says this:"


You can even use a number of combat-enhancing feats from the Player’s Handbook to improve the effectiveness of weaponlike spells, as noted in Chapter 3 of this book.

Well, yeah, it does. But if you look at Chapter 3, it gives a list of exactly 7 specific feats that work, of which, shockingly, Dead Eye isn't one.

It's lucky for you I enjoyed reading your disputes as much as Zaq did - in a different mood, I may well have abused my judgely powers and tried to penalise you for trying this.

Zaq
2020-01-05, 02:54 PM
Thank you, Miniman! I’ll make a table when I’m actually home and have my computer in front of me. I’m still several time zones away from my own bed.

Feel free to discuss the next ingredient or the proposed update to the handling of disputes!

Falontani
2020-01-05, 05:03 PM
Perhaps an E6 around using a specific weapon. Either a generic one or a very specific one. UoSI could be out of ten even.

Another e6 I want to see is having the la rules explicitly defined and allowed and have an la round

Quentinas
2020-01-05, 05:59 PM
here is a table as for the next ingredient there could be so much but what about a non magical or with not so much magic SI
There is the sohei battledancer, noble, Rogue i think , Ranger maybe
My vote for HM go to Umbra P.Darkfont


Build
Race
Final Stub
Miniman Score
Author
Position

Tawamios (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24282931&postcount=34)Tawamios[/td]
Unseelie fey dragonlance sage gnome
Shadowcaster 6
13.5
???
First
The Shadow Hand (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24282927&postcount=32)
Human
Shadowcaster 5/Battle Dancer 1
12.25
???
Second
Smoke (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24282929&postcount=33)
Whisper gnome
Shadowcaster 6
12.25
???
Second
Umbra P.Darkfont (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24282934&postcount=35 )
Human
Arificer 1/shadowcaster 5
11
???
Fourth
Nix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24282922&postcount=31)
Changeling
shadowcaster 5/Mystic Theurge 1
10.5
???
Fifth
Fluffless (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24282920&postcount=30)
Whisper Gnome
Beguiler 1/shadowcaster 3/Noctumancer 2
10.25
???
Sixth

MinimanMidget
2020-01-05, 06:23 PM
Thanks for making the table, Quentinas.

I was thinking about saying that I'm totally up for a Truenamer round, but then I went and read the Truenamer chapter. I've looked at it before, of course, but this time I really read it. And yeah, I've got nothing. Also, I don't want to lose my ability to taste icecream. It's very important to me. Beyond my lack of ideas for Truenamer, I don't have any particular thoughts about possible SIs.

On the new dispute guidelines...I'm not sure how disputes should be handled going forward. On the one hand, chair-approved disputes only makes a lot of sense. But it creates extra work for the chair, and there's a possibility of stuff getting missed. For example, from what Zaq said when he posted it, I'm not sure he noticed the part of Umbra's dispute that pointed out a blatant error I made in my judgment. Plus, looking at the new guidelines, I think judges were for the most part already enforcing them, just by saying "no change" and maybe throwing a bit of shade where appropriate.

And on that subject, sorry if my responses to the disputes came out a bit harsh. When I wrote them, I'd had somewhere around 8 hours sleep total over 3 days. Rereading them, I stand by the actual judgments I made, but I was definitely unnecessarily cranky.

DeTess
2020-01-05, 06:59 PM
Regarding the next round, I'd still love to see a feat-focussed round(so the SI is a category of feats, like [draconic] or [shifter] feats, or a less official one like dragonmarks(I'd be up for that last one in particular)), but I think the 'weapon' round idea could also be very interesting.

Regarding classes, I think binder could also make for an interesting round.

Gauntlet
2020-01-06, 05:11 AM
The above all sound interesting to me.

Another option which would be interesting would be a build theme that is based around a setting or flavor archetype rather than a specific mechanic. So you could have 'Undercity Criminals', or 'Wizard's Guild' or 'Courtly Intrigue' as a theme to have builds focus on. Not sure if this is outside the challenge's remit.

Zaq
2020-01-07, 02:07 PM
Okay folks, that's a wrap!



Build
Race
Final Stub
Miniman Score
Author
Position

Tawamios (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24282931&postcount=34)Tawamios[/td]
Unseelie fey dragonlance sage gnome
Shadowcaster 6
13.5
Quentinas
First
The Shadow's Hand (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24282927&postcount=32)
Human
Shadowcaster 5/Battle Dancer 1
12.25
Luccan
Second
Smoke (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24282929&postcount=33)
Whisper gnome
Shadowcaster 6
12.25
Gauntlet
Second
Umbra P.Darkfont (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24282934&postcount=35 )
Human
Arificer 1/shadowcaster 5
11
daremetoidareyo
Fourth, Honorable Mention
Nix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24282922&postcount=31)
Changeling
shadowcaster 5/Mystic Theurge 1
10.5
daremetoidareyo
Fifth
Fluffless (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24282920&postcount=30)
Whisper Gnome
Beguiler 1/shadowcaster 3/Noctumancer 2
10.25
jdizzlean
Sixth


Thanks very much to Quentinas for making the table, to MinimanMidget for judging, and to all of you for putting up with the logistics! Holidays and separate vacations are great, but they sure do throw everyday life out of whack, huh?

Congrats to Quentinas for gold and to Luccan and Gauntlet for a double silver! Very close race at the top, which is always thrilling to see. HM goes to daremetoidareyo's Umbra P. Darkfont for making me laugh harder than any other recent dish--that style is truly something I aspire to, both in breezy yet cheeky presentation and in sheer brazenness for the wacky crap you're trying to pull.


On the new dispute guidelines...I'm not sure how disputes should be handled going forward. On the one hand, chair-approved disputes only makes a lot of sense. But it creates extra work for the chair, and there's a possibility of stuff getting missed. For example, from what Zaq said when he posted it, I'm not sure he noticed the part of Umbra's dispute that pointed out a blatant error I made in my judgment. Plus, looking at the new guidelines, I think judges were for the most part already enforcing them, just by saying "no change" and maybe throwing a bit of shade where appropriate.

You're right that I missed the (non-ambiguous) RAW dispute, which is of course a potential downside to me being more of a gatekeeper with disputes.

I'll level with you: My take is that disputes are enough of a necessary evil that we shouldn't be throwing out the baby with the bathwater and just removing them entirely, but I really, really want to cut down on how many there are and what they're about. I think that the vast majority of them just kind of waste time and don't increase anyone's enjoyment of the contest as a whole. I've certainly submitted the occasional mewling I'm-gonna-fight-for-every-quarter-point dispute in the past, so trust me, I understand the siren song they sing! But they almost never really point out something that was truly missed. They make the judging phase take much longer, they're a ton of work for chair and judge(s) alike, and I feel like we'd be better off with fewer of them.

The majority fall under the "you should have explained that better up front" umbrella. Do exceptions exist? Absolutely! Judges are human (humanoid?) like the rest of us, and there are absolutely times when the judge makes a call that is objectively wrong ("hey, you missed a prereq" "um, no, I verifiably did not and I even told you so" "oh, my bad, you're no longer FTQ"). Disputes are valuable as a tool for redress against that. But so many disputes (again, including ones I've submitted myself! No one's immune and I'm not pointing any fingers!) just... aren't that. I want to get rid of disputes that aren't that.

So that's why I've put these guidelines in place, and that's why we're talking about enforcement mechanisms. (Real talk: my brain is so full of other crap these days, including but not limited to grad school + a full-time job, that I legitimately do not remember who's posted disputes in the last few rounds. I am not calling anyone out and I mean that sincerely. No one need take offense here.) My hope was that simply by posting the guidelines, I'd encourage folks to think more carefully before they send in a response. And for all I know, maybe I did! I wouldn't see the theoretical dispute that someone reconsidered and chose not to send, of course! But I hadn't considered the possibility of a valid dispute mired in the middle of a bunch of less valid timewaster.

Further real talk: I haven't been great about holding people accountable for the new guidelines. I don't think I've withheld any disputes, and I'm pretty sure there were a couple in the last round that might not have met the new standard. I think, anyway. That was, like, a really long time ago as far as my brain is concerned. What even was the round? I'd have to look at my notes to remember and I'm not even joking there. But the point is that I'll own and accept that I haven't been fully living up the standard I set by actually holding you guys/gals/others to the new rules, so I'm trying to find a more elegant way to do that in a manner that accounts for edge cases that I didn't foresee when first writing the rules.

That's really my goal. I just want fewer disputes without cutting off the potential entirely, and I want to find a way to be consistent and predictable in the way I administer this whole thing.


Regarding the next round, I'd still love to see a feat-focussed round(so the SI is a category of feats, like [draconic] or [shifter] feats, or a less official one like dragonmarks(I'd be up for that last one in particular)), but I think the 'weapon' round idea could also be very interesting.

Regarding classes, I think binder could also make for an interesting round.


The above all sound interesting to me.
[. . .] Not sure if this is outside the challenge's remit.

The challenge's remit is whatever we agree it to be! One key life lesson I've learned over the last three years (from at least three completely unrelated sectors of my life) is that the word official really just means that someone said it and someone else went along with it. Sometimes a lot of someones (and then it's a bit harder to challenge!), but that's all it comes down to. This contest is what we collectively want it to be, and we've done oddball rounds before.

DeTess, I'm taking some inspiration from your post. Congrats; you just influenced the next round. Which is here! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?606051-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-E6-Appetizer-Edition-(Round-XXII)&p=24342915)

Quentinas
2020-01-07, 07:08 PM
Well about disputes in this round i could have said something as for example that thanks to the race my will saves was not terrible or that umbral touch give me around 10 attack for time and that spell resistance was not a problem but i did not for two reasons the first that it was not useful and the second because i think that the judgment should remain the same
I loved this round and lucklily my logic on that phrase worked only for an article and some builds were funny