What's the best ongoing damage spell up to 5th level, other than Animate Objects?

[OgataiKhan]

Let me explain the situation: let's say we are an Adult Silver Dragon using the "Dragons as Innate Spellcasters" variant rule from the Monster Manual.
Our Cha modifier is +5, so we can cast 5 different spells once a day, and our CR is 16, so the max level for these spells is 5.

We are fighting a creature immune to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage from nonmagical weapons, and we want a way to damage them other than our breath weapon.

What's the best spell for this purpose?
We'd need something like Animate Objects, but not Animate Objects because it deals nonmagical damage.

[MaxWilson]

Call Lightning V is an easy and good choice. 5d10 or 6d10 lightning damage, save for half, as an action, 120' range, and it lasts up to ten minutes so no worries about running out of duration before the enemy is dead.

[OgataiKhan]

Call Lightning V is an easy and good choice. 5d10 or 6d10 lightning damage, save for half, as an action, 120' range, and it lasts up to ten minutes so no worries about running out of duration before the enemy is dead.

I've thought about it, but can dragons using that variant rule upcast spells?

[Yunru]

Animate Objects... Cast on some magic weapons :P
Surely you have some in your hoard?

[nickl_2000]

Spirit Guardians
Spiritual Weapons
Flaming Sphere
At least half of the Druid spells out there.

[Biggstick]

Spirit Guardians is going to be one of the best choices you can make in regards to constant damage.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Also sickening radiant if you can make them stay in the area.

[Throne12]

Animate Objects... Cast on some magic weapons :P
Surely you have some in your hoard?

Animate objects says nonmagical objects.

[Yunru]

Animate objects says nonmagical objects.

Curses, foiled again!

[JackPhoenix]

Grapple, fly up and drop. Immunity to non-magical weapon doesn't help against falling damage.

[micahaphone]

Also sickening radiant if you can make them stay in the area.

"No matter how much hp you have, exhaustion will kill you"

[HappyDaze]

Also sickening radiant if you can make them stay in the area.

I always think of Fallout-style radiation when Sickening Radiance is discussed. I do love this spell.

[Zhorn]

Grapple, fly up and drop. Immunity to non-magical weapon doesn't help against falling damage.

Ah yes, the draconic equivalent of the old razzle dazzle. It may seem like a cheap tacic, but it's a classic go-to for dragons for a reason.

[OgataiKhan]

Grapple, fly up and drop. Immunity to non-magical weapon doesn't help against falling damage.

That's a good idea, thanks!

[Damon_Tor]

Grapple, fly up and drop. Immunity to non-magical weapon doesn't help against falling damage.

Strictly speaking, it isn't clear that dragons can grapple. They don't seem to have hands.

[Nhorianscum]

Worth noting that the spellcasting dragon variant is restricted to the sorcerer list.

Under that restriction we can either use our massive dragon size to summon the crap out of demons while pinning the thing down, or if we're opposed to that we can do 10d8/round by dropping a wall of fire and holding the mook in the sweet spot while wailing on the fool with a magical weapon held chopstick style in our off-claw.

Or just fly up.

[silvertree]

Worth noting that the spellcasting dragon variant is restricted to the sorcerer list.

I don't think that's RAW - at least, the VARIANT: DRAGONS AS INNATE SPELLCASTERS section doesn't have that restriction. I personally think that restriction would make sense, though.

In which case, Divine Soul sorceror gets access to the cleric spell list. Boom, problem solved.

[OgataiKhan]

Worth noting that the spellcasting dragon variant is restricted to the sorcerer list.

Under that restriction we can either use our massive dragon size to summon the crap out of demons while pinning the thing down, or if we're opposed to that we can do 10d8/round by dropping a wall of fire and holding the mook in the sweet spot while wailing on the fool with a magical weapon held chopstick style in our off-claw.

Or just fly up.

Where is it written that they are restricted to the Sorcerer list?

Also, how does the Wall of Fire deal 10d8/round? Isn't it 5d8 when it appears, then 5d8/round?

[JackPhoenix]

I don't think that's RAW - at least, the VARIANT: DRAGONS AS INNATE SPELLCASTERS section doesn't have that restriction. I personally think that restriction would make sense, though.

In which case, Divine Soul sorceror gets access to the cleric spell list. Boom, problem solved.

Assuming the dragons are restricted to sorcerer list... which they are not, DS doesn't solve anything. The dragon still wouldn't have subclass, so no DS, and DS doesn't give access to cleric list, it still only has access to sorcerer list, and an option to selectively put some spells from cleric list and put them to sorcerer's.

[Renduaz]

Why would you even want damage over time just to kill some creature? There are probably better ways to deal with it in your situation if all you want to do is defeat that creature, though there isn't enough information provided on it's traits and abilities so I don't know what it's immune to or. If you have a bunch of silver dragons and you can all cast those spells, you'd probably be better off just having everyone cast Bane at first until one sticks to it, then even Bestow Curse if needed, and finally hurl a barrage of Polymorphs at it. Even a creature with legendary resistances is going to have a hard time dealing with that. Once it gets Polymorphed it can just be hurled off the sky or into a lava pool or imprisoned or all sorts of things depending on what type it is.

Another better alternatives to damage over times would be any of the summoning spells. Conjure Minor Elementals and Woodland Beings have all kinds of nasty creatures with their own potential, and you could summon a veritable ton of them, even combine it with other spells that grant AOE bonuses to all the creatures or Elemental Bane ( someone else concentrating ) and the like. And Enervation would generally be the better DOT compared to what people are suggesting, since on subsequent turns you can deal automatic damage without rolling for it.

[Nhorianscum]

Where is it written that they are restricted to the Sorcerer list?

Also, how does the Wall of Fire deal 10d8/round? Isn't it 5d8 when it appears, then 5d8/round?

I remember the varient stating that the dragon casts "as a sorcerer" with yadda yadda, yadda yadda stuffs based on age/stats.

Anywho for 10d8 jam a fool into the burny zone, and blammo 5d8 from the "fire side" effect the hold em there for 5d8 from ending turn there. Deep fried 10d8. It's awkward to use, unless you're big and don't super care about also being on fire.

[MaxWilson]

I remember the varient stating that the dragon casts "as a sorcerer" with yadda yadda, yadda yadda stuffs based on age/stats.

That's how I run my dragons--all adult dragons are Dragon Sorcerers in addition to their dragon stats. If dragon blood makes you a sorcerer, then having your veins full of genuine 100% dragon blood ought to make you a sorcerer too, nicht so?

Besides, the MM spellcasting dragon variant is silly. Why would a mighty dragon be restricted to only 1 Counterspell a day?

[Kane0]

Odd choice, but Guardian of Faith. It's a guaranteed 60 damage if you can keep them in the area (try grappling), and if everyone in the party casts it...

Alternatively, everybody takes Destructive Wave and/or Cone of Cold to spam.

Telekinesis and Bigby's Hand might be fun options.

[OgataiKhan]

Odd choice, but Guardian of Faith. It's a guaranteed 60 damage if you can keep them in the area (try grappling), and if everyone in the party casts it...

Alternatively, everybody takes Destructive Wave and/or Cone of Cold to spam.

Telekinesis and Bigby's Hand might be fun options.

Thank you, but doesn't Guardian of Faith require the creature to actually move into a space within 10 ft of the guardian? It doesn't say "...or starts its turn there", so I don't think grappling would work.

[Nhym]

Conjure Animals. Upcasting to level 5 gives you 16 CR 1/4's and below. Assuming you pick wolves (which aren't even the most damaging), that's a potential 112 damage per turn not mentioning the other benefits of the summons. They won't all hit obviously, but considering pack tactics, it is still reasonable for then to get around 80~ damage a round if they all have something to attack. Basically a fireball every turn.

[Chronos]

Which is an average of zero damage per turn against foes immune to nonmagical weapons. Which was the whole point of the exercise.

[Nhym]

Which is an average of zero damage per turn against foes immune to nonmagical weapons. Which was the whole point of the exercise.

Be a Shepherd Druid.

[KorvinStarmast]

Grapple, fly up and drop. Immunity to non-magical weapon doesn't help against falling damage. Aye.


Strictly speaking, it isn't clear that dragons can grapple. They don't seem to have hands. They have claws and a tail. I doubt that a DM will prohibit a dragon from grappling ... have you seen a ruling like that at a table?