Thoughts on the Tarrasque

[Alex12]

Okay, I've been doing a bit of thinking on how the Tarrasque is supposed to be some ultimate engine of destruction. Except...it's really not. I mean, sure, it's dangerous, but it really shouldn't be that hard to track down and kill. Here's why.

First off, the big T can't teleport, planeshift, or do anything else that would make it impossible to locate the thing's lair.
Second, the Tarrasque is big. Very big. That means it's obvious, especially considering its tendency toward eating everything in its path. It would be relatively easy to find out where the Tarrasque has been, just piecing together info from rumors and legends.
Third, the Tarrasque spends most of its time sleeping in its lair.
Fourth, it's slow. Even assuming it uses its Rush ability as often as possible and doesn't stop or slow down for anything, it can still only move at 330 feet/minute. Its normal waking time is 1d3 days. That means that at most, the furthest the Tarrasque can go in one cycle is *does some math* 11.25 miles. Now keep in mind that it needs to go back to its lair to sleep. 11.25/2=5.625 miles maximum distance from its lair. This, of course, assumes that it always stays awake for the maximum length, and that it moves at maximum speed the whole time.

Now, to find the big T, all you have to do is find the last place it was seen, and then work outward from there. You have at minimum 6 months to search an area of at most 100 square miles to find something the size of a five-story building. As for major cover? Forget it. Anything that would hide it, like trees, large rocks, etc, would have been eaten on one of Tarrasque's feeding frenzies. It'll probably be, at worst, gentle scrub and hills.

This should make finding the Tarrasque's lair fairly simple. And when you find it, it'll be sleeping. As for killing it, well, there have been numerous ways suggested to go about doing that, so I won't bother talking about it. Suffice to say that it should get far easier when you can take the fight to it.

[Mr. Friendly]

Well the Tarrasque basically sucks, that's an established fact, essentially.

What makes Big T dangerous is honestly you should never just run into him or find his lair, no no no...

Ideally you should never even hear of the Tarrasque except in legend..... and in rumor that the BBEG is going to wake him up and kill everyone.

Cut to epic battle vs. BBEG:

BBEG finishes ritual *just* as PC's (barely) defeat the villain's minions. Big T goes buck wild and the PCs get to fight him on the DM/BBEG's terms, in a place of their choosing, with depleted resources.

Then Big T is well worth his CR.

[Alex12]

Ah. Now I have to find another way to get Tarrasque leather.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Tarrasque is only the strongest monster in the Monster Manual because Dragons have their own table. Otherwise he's a joke.

Though shivering touch can turn dragons into a joke as well.

[Reel On, Love]

BBEG finishes ritual *just* as PC's (barely) defeat the villain's minions. Big T goes buck wild and the PCs get to fight him on the DM/BBEG's terms, in a place of their choosing, with depleted resources.

Then Big T is well worth his CR.

No, he's not. Then the PCs are fighting him on someone else's terms, in a place picked by someone else, with depleted resources. That will make ANY fight tougher! It doesn't increase the Tarrasque's difficulty more than it does anything else.

[Mr. Friendly]

No, he's not. Then the PCs are fighting him on someone else's terms, in a place picked by someone else, with depleted resources. That will make ANY fight tougher! It doesn't increase the Tarrasque's difficulty more than it does anything else.

Um, isn't that just what I said?

So you are disagreeing with me, by saying exactly what I said.

Is this a Diplomacy check or should I just roll a Will save against Confusion?

[Jack Mann]

I think the point is that if the Tarrasque needs that sort of set-up to be effective, then it's a pretty weak monster.

[Ossian]

I'm reading the Tarrasque entry in the Hypertext D20 Open Source (here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm)) and I can't help but wonder how exactly can it be considered easy to take on. I'm not even saying "a joke". That is just a manner of saying that it's not that impossible.
The bastard has almost a 1000 HP, better initiative than most PCs, and each and every attack he does is almost an automatic hit with insane amounts of damage.

A DC 36 Will save is what you have to pass not to pee your pants the momet you see / hear him and he's pretty much immune to everything...
Possibly because I've never run a game above the 10th level (for the PCs) and challenges were proportional, but I fail to understand how the Big T is a Joke. Le alone for the fact you don't just find his lair by following rumors, since there is no one left alive to tell them, even in a simple pit fight, cages open and release the Tarrasque and 4 high level PCs into a 300 yards wide arena, with time to buff up with all the possible casting and summoning, beating the Tarrasque should still make it an epic, once-in-a-1000-years accomplishment. He's literally Godzilla from Inoshiro Honda's imagination. Size matters, they say, and also the fact that it took 12 Maverick Air-to-Ground missiles dead on the side to take the lizard down.

So, unless we are talking about a group of four 20th level PC with proportional equipment, which would still be "moderate difficulty" and not a joke, the Tarrasque rules. Also because in my power scale four 20th level PCs = the Gold Saints from Athens descended from the Great Tample and decided to save mankind from extinction.

O.

[Jack Mann]

If you let me go outside of core, I can beat him at level seven. Reliably by level nine or so.

But then, it's a pretty cheap trick.

[tainsouvra]

Um, isn't that just what I said? The difference is that you're looking at CR including factors that increase the difficulty of an encounter while he is looking at the base CR. Technically, he is right, as the factors you mentioned increase CR and thus, if the Tarrasque has the right CR only after other factors make it harder, its base CR is too high.

[kamikasei]

The bastard has almost a 1000 HP, better initiative than most PCs, and each and every attack he does is almost an automatic hit with insane amounts of damage.

He can't fly; there's no particular reason for him to be able to reach you to hit you.

[squishycube]

- It cannot fly
- It has no range attacks
Ergo:
- It dies if pitted against a level 20 party

[Mr. Friendly]

The difference is that you're looking at CR including factors that increase the difficulty of an encounter while he is looking at the base CR. Technically, he is right, as the factors you mentioned increase CR and thus, if the Tarrasque has the right CR only after other factors make it harder, its base CR is too high.

No, technically the other factors increase the overall EL of the situation. The CR of the Tarrasque does not change unless it gets Templated, extra HDs etc.

My point was that the Tarrasque is a powerful and deadly monster and at it's CR is worth it, you just have to make the characters fight it on DM terms, not Player fantasy land theoretical optimization terms. Yes, a low level Wizard can kill the Tarrasque. In theory. In practice though.... it should not happen.

And the Tarrasques CR is fine where it is. I'm sure anyone can pull off a one in a million theoretical kill, with a lot of stipulations like "Oh and I need 500000 more GP than I should have at this level"; ask that Fighter, Warblade, Hexblade, pretty much every class that relies on melee, if the Tarrasqe is CR 20 and for the most part they would say "No, it should be CR 30, it's impossible"; so yeah, woopity doo. You can use player knowledge (cheat, essentially) to beat a monster. Good Job.

[Alex12]

Le alone for the fact you don't just find his lair by following rumors, since there is no one left alive to tell them.

The Tarrasque sleeps for 6d4 months at a time, and then wakes up for 1d3 days to eat. It's not hostile, just hungry. If you're flying, have a decent head start on it (which, considering that the area around T's lair is more than likely going to be relatively flat, isn't too improbable-how hard is it to spot something the size of a small castle?), and/or are lucky, there's a decent chance you'll be able to escape alive. Or you could just find the area where people and towns keep disappearing with no trace, and a few divinations/legend lores should let you figure it out.

[shadowdemon_lord]

If you let me go outside of core, I can beat him at level seven. Reliably by level nine or so.

But then, it's a pretty cheap trick.

And I could beat him at level 4 (or was it 5?)...with a kobold divine minion. I'm happy that you can put together a level 9 character that can reliably find a way to deal almost 900 points of damage followed by a miracle in one round. the fact that you must optimize to that point probably says something about it's power. Also, any self respecting DM who really wanted to challenge a 20th level party would give the Tarrasque some sort of way to make it be able to deal with flying foes (such as say, templating it to have wings.

[tainsouvra]

No, technically the other factors increase the overall EL of the situation. The CR of the Tarrasque does not change unless it gets Templated, extra HDs etc. If the appropriateness of the Challenge Rating is dependent on mitigating circumstances that increase the Encounter Level, then the Challenge Rating is too high.

[The Glyphstone]

And I could beat him at level 4 (or was it 5?)...with a kobold divine minion. I'm happy that you can put together a level 9 character that can reliably find a way to deal almost 900 points of damage followed by a miracle in one round. the fact that you must optimize to that point probably says something about it's power. Also, any self respecting DM who really wanted to challenge a 20th level party would give the Tarrasque some sort of way to make it be able to deal with flying foes (such as say, templating it to have wings.


Winged Tarrasque.....[shudder]

[BardicDuelist]

Well, in a core only game, the Tarrasque is pretty tough, but I agree. It is not as hard as it is made out to be. Now a winged paragon pseudonatural tarrasque? That might be a challenge.

[Kel_Arath]

30-headed-half-fiend-pseudonatural-god-blooded-void-mind-winged-pyro-tarrasque of legend :smalleek:

[Whistling One]

Even assuming it uses its Rush ability as often as possible and doesn't stop or slow down for anything, it can still only move at 330 feet/minute. Its normal waking time is 1d3 days. That means that at most, the furthest the Tarrasque can go in one cycle is *does some math* 11.25 miles. Now keep in mind that it needs to go back to its lair to sleep. 11.25/2=5.625 miles maximum distance from its lair. This, of course, assumes that it always stays awake for the maximum length, and that it moves at maximum speed the whole time.

It would be 90 miles a day (330*60*24/5280)=90....not that it makes a major difference when magic based forms of travel are available

[Jack Mann]

And I could beat him at level 4 (or was it 5?)...with a kobold divine minion. I'm happy that you can put together a level 9 character that can reliably find a way to deal almost 900 points of damage followed by a miracle in one round. the fact that you must optimize to that point probably says something about it's power. Also, any self respecting DM who really wanted to challenge a 20th level party would give the Tarrasque some sort of way to make it be able to deal with flying foes (such as say, templating it to have wings.

My build isn't that cheesy, really. It's cheap in that it doesn't take many resources for what it accomplishes. It''s nothing you couldn't see in actual play.

And the build doesn't do 900 points of damage and it doesn't use miracle or wish. Why would I want to do that? That would kill the Tarrasque.

[Xeon]

In my games I have always used the Tarrasuqe as my ace in the hole. If for whatever reason I have to pull it out then the party is going down even if I have to pull out some other tricks. Maybe the Tarrasque can't get the job done in some situations but it is always a sign of certin and impending doom.

[Mewtarthio]

I've said it before: Phrenic Tarrasque for the win. He can teleport. As for flying enemies: Give him the Half-Fey template as well, just because the idea of a Tarrasque with butterfly wings is funny.

[Lokey]

My build isn't that cheesy, really. It's cheap in that it doesn't take many resources for what it accomplishes. It''s nothing you couldn't see in actual play.

And the build doesn't do 900 points of damage and it doesn't use miracle or wish. Why would I want to do that? That would kill the Tarrasque.
Diplomacy isn't going to work. I don't remember if he's outright immune to charm/compulsion... So what's your 100% guaranteed level 9 Tarrasque defeating build?

[yoshi927]

Diplomacy isn't going to work. I don't remember if he's outright immune to charm/compulsion... So what's your 100% guaranteed level 9 Tarrasque defeating build?Probably Pun-Pun. :smallbiggrin:

[Jack Mann]

Level nine just gives me a few more defenses (i. e. ways to stay the hell away from it) and tries. My build revolves around Summon Undead IV and V. I summon allips.

The Tarrasque is immune to ability damage, but not ability drain. I sic the allips on him. 14 points of wisdom drain later (six hits on average), and he's down.

Granted, he'll get attacks of opportunity on the allips. But since they're incorporeal, he'll only be hitting half the time (and wouldn't hit even that often if his natural weapons didn't count as magical).

EDIT: Oh, and the good news? He's still alive and regenerating. Nothing kills him. You can harvest mine tarrasque steaks for the rest of your days.

[Xeon]

The Tarrasque is immune to ability damage, but not ability drain.


Are you sure that drain wouldn't also count as damage as it is damageing the ability (if I drain your HP it still damages you).

[Jack Mann]

I am sure. Ability damage and ability drain are two different things. For one thing, you can heal ability damage. Ability drain stays until someone casts restoration.

[Arbitrarity]

Nope, ability damage and drain are two very seperate things, each defined clearly. They are both listed in immunities seperately, so if it's not specifically immune to ability drain, it's not immune to ability drain. E.g.
Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain.
Note the seperate listing. Both come under "ability score loss", however.

[Alex12]

It would be 90 miles a day (330*60*24/5280)=90....not that it makes a major difference when magic based forms of travel are available

Wow. I forgot to multiply by 24. That was embarrassing. That significantly increases the area a party would need to search. To over 200000 square miles. However, natural terrain would probably significantly lessen that, and the fact that realistically if you're planning on beating the Tarrasque, you'll probably have flight capability, and how hard would it be to look for a hole in the ground big enough to fit something as big as the Tarrasque?

[Dausuul]

The tarrasque's Will save is only +20, it's not immune to mind-affecting or compulsion magic, and dominate monster has no Hit Die limit.

Just in case your party tank wasn't feeling ineffectual enough at 20th level.

(Actually, I think its real purpose is to be mind-controlled by the BBEG.)

[Callos_DeTerran]

*cough* For the record more information has been published on the Tarrasque from what essentially amounts to a splatbook (It has official D&D content). ...And the only things of real import this has is...



Wow. I forgot to multiply by 24. That was embarrassing. That significantly increases the area a party would need to search. To over 200000 square miles. However, natural terrain would probably significantly lessen that, and the fact that realistically if you're planning on beating the Tarrasque, you'll probably have flight capability, and how hard would it be to look for a hole in the ground big enough to fit something as big as the Tarrasque?

-The Tarrasque has no lair. When it's done eating it finds a suitably large amount of earth and melts into it. Doesn't dig or make a hole or anything, just melts down far enough that it doesn't think it'll be disturbed and goes to sleep....Which makes it harder to find since you have to dig/shape earth down were it melted down and hope it didn't turn sideways or anything along the way. And if you do find it and attack it's just as likely to melt even farther away as it is to eat the creature who attacked it.

-This same article (which is about the tarrasque) implies that there isn't just one tarrasque...theres just their really really spread out. (Like say...one every five material worlds maybe...if your unlucky)

-I still think the negilgence of putting ability drain into the Tarrasque's immunities is a typo, for all the other things it's immune against it just doesn't make sense for it to be vulnerable to ability drain...thats why my Tarrasque's usually have a couple extra words in their stat blocks to cover glaring weaknesses..(And before anyone says it, no I don't mean like giving it wings or spellcasting, I try and at least stay true to the monster's original idea. :smallwink: )

[Kantolin]

I think one of the irritating points of the Tarrasque is the immunities which are supposed to make him a good encounter.

I mean, I believe the typical encounter with any monster from the MM is assumed to be:

"The well-rested and fully-healed PCs step out of the cave where they've been for the past two weeks or so. They stretch, as their eyes adjust to the sunlight. The thudding noise they've been hearing as they near the cave now comes into view around the corner - it's the Tarrasque, who is just as surprised to see the PCs as the PCs are to see it. Roll for initiative."

That seems to be the typical way 'encounters' are setup. The trouble is, due to the Tarrasque's immunities, this tends to lead to a lot of non-fights: "We can't possibly hope to harm it." or, "Hey, we're set up properly. We auto-beat it." with nothing in between.

You could prompt more of the first response by putting something important in the immediate way. "Oh no, if we don't stop the Tarrasque /now/, he'll go eat that town which we do not want eaten!" You can then prompt more of the second response by placing some method of obtaining an 8 hour gap.

Either way, the Tarrasque fails in my mind as there's rarely/never a 'fight' involving him. Maybe a mildly annoying trek for a frame of time.

[Lokey]

Ok, I do remember drowning Big T in Allips as being one of the easiest pretty sure methods. What else would this work on...I don't think intelligent enemies would have much problem. Also I note that Allips are listed as solitary in their association, I wonder if that would affect how DMs deal with summoning swarms of them.

Dominate Monster, ick. Hopefully the DM can find someone to throw Protection from Good/Evil on the beasty ;)

I for one welcome our new Allip overlords.

[martyboy74]

-The Tarrasque has no lair. When it's done eating it finds a suitably large amount of earth and melts into it. Doesn't dig or make a hole or anything, just melts down far enough that it doesn't think it'll be disturbed and goes to sleep....Which makes it harder to find since you have to dig/shape earth down were it melted down and hope it didn't turn sideways or anything along the way. And if you do find it and attack it's just as likely to melt even farther away as it is to eat the creature who attacked it.

That's really handy. It makes plan B* much easier.

*Plan B:
1. Put the Tarrasque in a big hole.
2. Fill hole with water (Create Water, Dectanter of Endless Water, etc.)
3. Watch the Tarrasque drop to -1 hit points, and stay there, because regeneration does not restore hit points lost to suffocation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration).
4. ???
5. Profit by selling

[martyboy74]

-The Tarrasque has no lair. When it's done eating it finds a suitably large amount of earth and melts into it. Doesn't dig or make a hole or anything, just melts down far enough that it doesn't think it'll be disturbed and goes to sleep....Which makes it harder to find since you have to dig/shape earth down were it melted down and hope it didn't turn sideways or anything along the way. And if you do find it and attack it's just as likely to melt even farther away as it is to eat the creature who attacked it.

That's really handy. It makes plan B* much easier.

*Plan B:
1. Put the Tarrasque in a big hole.
2. Fill hole with water (Create Water, Dectanter of Endless Water, etc.)
3. Watch the Tarrasque drop to -1 hit points, and stay there, because regeneration does not restore hit points lost to suffocation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration).
4. ???
5. Profit by selling

Of course, this plan relies on you hunting the Tarrasque down. It's not nearly as effective if he's awake.

[Chronos]

I'm happy that you can put together a level 9 character that can reliably find a way to deal almost 900 points of damage followed by a miracle in one round. the fact that you must optimize to that point probably says something about it's power.If you're able to catch it asleep (as the description suggest you should be able to), then a level 5 fighter with a single core-rules feat and a nonmagical weapon should be able to pull it off. Power Attack for full on a coup-de-grace with a scythe: Even accounting for damage reduction, and even with Big T's insane Fortitude save, that's enough damage that he only makes his save on a natural 20. The failed coup-de-grace save does 840 subdual damage to him, of which he heals 40. The next round, you do the same thing, and so on. Sure, the level 5 fighter can't get a Wish or Miracle to finish it off, but he can spend a few days each month re-damaging it to keep it unconscious, and go on other adventures meanwhile.

[Istari]

And I could beat him at level 4 (or was it 5?)...with a kobold divine minion.

I was thinking the same thing.:smallbiggrin:

[martyboy74]

You can't Coup de Grace with a damage type that is converted into nonleathal damage by regeneration. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration)

[Callos_DeTerran]

That's really handy. It makes plan B* much easier.

*Plan B:
1. Put the Tarrasque in a big hole.
2. Fill hole with water (Create Water, Dectanter of Endless Water, etc.)
3. Watch the Tarrasque drop to -1 hit points, and stay there, because regeneration does not restore hit points lost to suffocation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration).
4. ???
5. Profit by selling

Of course, this plan relies on you hunting the Tarrasque down. It's not nearly as effective if he's awake.

....Just out of curiousty how are you making the Tarrasque stay in this metaphorical hole of yours? :smallwink: Instead of it...y'know swimming to the top, melting down farther, etc*.

*Whatever else a tarrasque could do to escape that situation considering it can hold it's breath for about 2 minutes and 15 seconds before it even needs to begin making Fortitude saves to avoid drowning.

[tainsouvra]

....Just out of curiousty how are you making the Tarrasque stay in this metaphorical hole of yours? :smallwink: Instead of it...y'know swimming to the top, melting down farther, etc*.

*Whatever else a tarrasque could do to escape that situation considering it can hold it's breath for about 2 minutes and 15 seconds before it even needs to begin making Fortitude saves to avoid drowning. There's actually a thread somewhere on ways to kill the beastie, and the plan is a little more involved than that, but he's covering the basics there :smallsmile:

[Vasdenjas]

It would be 90 miles a day (330*60*24/5280)=90....not that it makes a major difference when magic based forms of travel are available

Actually, 20 feet is it's standard move. If it's on a rampage, it's likely not taking a leisurely stroll, but rather taking a full steam run. Now, is the 150 feet it's move, or it's run once per minute? If it is the move, he moves a total of:

((base move x 4 (running) x 9 (9 rounds of normal move)) + 150 (one round of burst speed)) x 60 x 24

so ((80x9)+150) x 1440 = 1252800 feet/day or 237.27 miles/day.

If 150 is his normal move, and once per minute, he can run at 600, that increases it to 360 miles/day

That's a lot of ground to cover

[Helios Sunshard]

search for "Seven Ways to Kill the Tarrasque on thirteen experience levels or less" :smalltongue:

It has to do with using iron, a lot of iron, thank you to your wizzard buddy and his "Wall of Iron" spell. Then you can use it to put something stronger than rock in the walls of the hole (and the upper part, sealing the beast).

The funiest (for me) is the bardic one, even if it cant be done :smallfrown:

[Ossian]

Well well well....I must admit that my knowledge of the rules is still a bit primitive. Perhaps I have this idealized picture of the T. as a Godlike creature, and I run relatively low magic campaigns. That never prompted me to grasp the rules to handle a high level and above all high magic party. I used to have a wiz. in my party that kept acting like a F117-Stealth. That is, bombarding everything at mach 3 from a 210 meters altitude, with a cloaking device worthy of a klingon or romulan warship and various other shielding paraphernalia that blocked normal missiles, magic missiles, infra red, ultraviolet, infra green, infra yellow and ultrablue rays, and he was just 9th level with INT 17.

That kinda screwed the "hyborean age" atmosphere and he tuned it down after some (mild) insistence from me and the rest of the party. This said, since there is some interest on the big T. (be it to beat the tar out of it or to revere it's CR 20 as it is ;) ) I'll post a link on an old D&D "Fight Club" issue, focused on the big lizard.

The Tarrasque: why you don't want to fight it. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20051109a)

These builds fix most of the problems, such as the lack of a ranged attack. I'd give them a look, especially if you are thinking bout using a T. in a campaign. Forget CRs and loopholes and broken builds (which are still funny to figure out anyway). It's a T., it deserves its glory!!!

Ossian

[martyboy74]

....Just out of curiousty how are you making the Tarrasque stay in this metaphorical hole of yours? :smallwink: Instead of it...y'know swimming to the top, melting down farther, etc*.

*Whatever else a tarrasque could do to escape that situation considering it can hold it's breath for about 2 minutes and 15 seconds before it even needs to begin making Fortitude saves to avoid drowning.

Ah, I forgot to cover that. After you imbed several decanters of endless water within the walls of the pit, you cast a Antilife Shell above it (you'll probably need a couple caster level boosts for this). This stops it from swimming upwards. Burrowing downward doesn't help; the water just falls after it. Same for burrowing sideways.

\/ Curse you, basic physics! Acutally, anyone want to figure out it would take? The Tarrasque runs out of breath in 62 rounds on average. It's certainly enough time to escape this way, but it'd still be a handy statistic to have.

[Yuki Akuma]

Ah, I forgot to cover that. After you imbed several decanters of endless water within the walls of the pit, you cast a Antilife Shell above it (you'll probably need a couple caster level boosts for this). This stops it from swimming upwards. Burrowing downward doesn't help; the water just falls after it. Same for burrowing sideways.

It could, however, burrow sideways, then up.

[Chronos]

You can't Coup de Grace with a damage type that is converted into nonleathal damage by regeneration.I interpret that differently: That just says that you can't kill a regenerating creature with a nonlethal-type coup-de-gras, not that you can't do it at all. And the Tarrasque's description specifically says what happens when it's subjected to something which would kill a normal monster outright: It instead takes a big heap of nonlethal damage.


Ah, I forgot to cover that. After you imbed several decanters of endless water within the walls of the pit, you cast a Antilife Shell above it (you'll probably need a couple caster level boosts for this).How many caster level boosts can you get? The Tarrasque has spell resistance 32. So unless you have an effective caster level of at least 31, it's got a 1 in 20 chance of getting through that shell. And it'll have plenty of time to try.

[Anxe]

I had a good idea for the Tarrasque being really awesome, but I never used it. The reason no one has found the Tarrasque is because it is a lycanthrope. The party's job would be to slowly discover the supposed location of the Tarrasque and then when they got there one of the PCs would turn into the beasty. A totally badass final encounter and I don't have to roll a single die during it.

[deadseashoals]

I interpret that differently: That just says that you can't kill a regenerating creature with a nonlethal-type coup-de-gras, not that you can't do it at all. And the Tarrasque's description specifically says what happens when it's subjected to something which would kill a normal monster outright: It instead takes a big heap of nonlethal damage.

However, the Tarrasque would not be killed normally by a coup-de-grace. Therefore, the clause in its regeneration ability that reads "if the tarrasque fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly..." will never kick in. Coup-de-grace all you want, but all it's going to do is score an automatic critical hit.


How many caster level boosts can you get? The Tarrasque has spell resistance 32. So unless you have an effective caster level of at least 31, it's got a 1 in 20 chance of getting through that shell. And it'll have plenty of time to try.

That's not how spell resistance works. If T fails to get through the shell once, he's going to fail to get through the shell until it wears off.


Check spell resistance only once for any particular casting of a spell or use of a spell-like ability. If spell resistance fails the first time, it fails each time the creature encounters that same casting of the spell. Likewise, if the spell resistance succeeds the first time, it always succeeds.

[UserClone]

You can't Coup de Grace with a damage type that is converted into nonleathal damage by regeneration. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration)

Umm...you are kind of reaching for that one...all that says is that the CdG won't threaten DEATH, not that it won't still deal its subdual damage.

[Draz74]

I had a good idea for the Tarrasque being really awesome, but I never used it. The reason no one has found the Tarrasque is because it is a lycanthrope. The party's job would be to slowly discover the supposed location of the Tarrasque and then when they got there one of the PCs would turn into the beasty. A totally badass final encounter and I don't have to roll a single die during it.

What's the LA for a Were-Tarrasque? :smallwink:

[NEO|Phyte]

Umm...you are kind of reaching for that one...all that says is that the CdG won't threaten DEATH, not that it won't still deal its subdual damage.

What part of
A regenerating creature that has been rendered unconscious through nonlethal damage can be killed with a coup de grace. The attack cannot be of a type that automatically converts to nonlethal damage. is a reach?

[....]

You're thinking of it in the wrong way.

By munchink terms, no T isn't anything special.

By average commoner/soldier/non OMG-SUPER-OPTIMIZED-RAW-ABUSING-THIRTEEN-DIFFERENT-CLASS-SUPERPC, the Tarrasque is a vicious, unstoppable brute that you can do naught but flee from.

Also, I was wondering, T regens from a single drop of blood. Does more than one form?

And if it does, I have a related quesiton.

On the plane of Positive Energy, you eventually explode from being filled with to much energy. Does this explosion cause blood?

If I teleport T onto the Positive Energy Plane and leave him in there for...oh...a thousand years, will I the be able to open it up and set forth a charge of ten billion ravenous tarrasque onto unsuspecting villagers?

[OzymandiasVolt]

The Tarrasque is easy! All you have to do is organize an elaborate plot based on the assumption that your character SOMEHOW knows every detail about a one-of-a-kind creature of legend that nobody really knows any details about.

[Kaelik]

All you really need to do is dig a big hole. Permanency Walls of Force all around the bottom/inside walls. Place a Dark Way spell atop it. (Or several.) Lure Tarrasque, have him fall through, Wall of Force the top of it. Make sure there is no gap for air. Eventually he dies of suffocation.

[deadseashoals]

All you really need to do is dig a big hole. Permanency Walls of Force all around the bottom/inside walls. Place a Dark Way spell atop it. (Or several.) Lure Tarrasque, have him fall through, Wall of Force the top of it. Make sure there is no gap for air. Eventually he dies of suffocation.

Wall of force makes a vertical plane only, so you can't enclose someone in a box made entirely of walls of force.

[Frosty]

Research a version that does :D

[Chronos]

That's not how spell resistance works. If T fails to get through the shell once, he's going to fail to get through the shell until it wears off.I think that, at some level, I actually did remember that. That'll teach me to post without looking it up first. Still, though, 1 in 20 (or more) chance of failure is pretty significant, when a failure means the Tarrasque can jump up out of a hole in the ground and shred your d4 hit dice to ribbons.

On the Wall of Force idea, in addition to the orientation of the walls, Wall of Force and related effects (Resilient Sphere, Forcecage) explicitly can't cause suffocation.

[Machete]

What more do people REALLY want from the Tarresque. There are plenty of varients out there and templates are always fun. Maybe Diminutive Winged Tarreque Swarms.

[Arbitrarity]

I think that, at some level, I actually did remember that. That'll teach me to post without looking it up first. Still, though, 1 in 20 (or more) chance of failure is pretty significant, when a failure means the Tarrasque can jump up out of a hole in the ground and shred your d4 hit dice to ribbons.

On the Wall of Force idea, in addition to the orientation of the walls, Wall of Force and related effects (Resilient Sphere, Forcecage) explicitly can't cause suffocation.

Ok, tarrasque, meet my friends Assay Spell Resistance and Orange Ioun Stone (or spell power). Alternatively, or also, meet my friend Arcane Mastery.

[martyboy74]

Or better yet, meet my friend 'another antilife shell'. For twice the SR passing fun!

[triforcel]

Not only do I feel that the allip solution is really cheesy, but I also agree with several people that it just shouldn't work, though there is no errata for the tarrasque so either they meant to make him vulnerable to ability drain, or they still haven't realized their mistakes.

The plan to drown the tarrasque while he's asleep, or to have fighter sneak up to him and coup de grace repeatedly both fail because there's little chance of the tarrasque sleeping through either of those and once it wakes up you'll be hard pressed to escape with your characters that have been working so hard to defeat the tarrasque at the lowest level possible.

Finally the plan to trap the tarrasque within walls of force faces the issues of
1) Researching a wall of force spell that can be cast horizontally
2) Researching the tarrasque to the point that you can reasonably dig a hole large enough for him to fit into
3) Find a caster who would be willing to shell out the THOUSANDS of experience you would need to make each wall of force permanent
4) Find a way to lure the tarrasque into said hole (not much you can do if it just wants to go the other way for some reason)
5) Hope nobody you care about falls into the hole with the tarrasque
6) Casting the necessary Walls of Force to trap the tarrasque and then make them permanent while he tries to climb his way out, the tiniest obstruction to where you want the wall to go makes the spell fail)
7) Wait around for him to suffocate, which will take a while
8) Accomplish all this without attracting the attention of anyone who might say anything to anyone who might make a remark that could possibly be heard by someone who could inform somebody who has any number of reasons to want the tarrasque to be alive and free or simply alive and also has some method of destroying your walls of force (not as hard as one might think)
9) Hope that the tarrasque doesn't have a bottle of air somewhere on his body from his rampages
10) PRAY that the tarrasque isn't the material planes equivalent of Galactus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactus)

But other than that, you're fine.

[Kaelik]

I think that, at some level, I actually did remember that. That'll teach me to post without looking it up first. Still, though, 1 in 20 (or more) chance of failure is pretty significant, when a failure means the Tarrasque can jump up out of a hole in the ground and shred your d4 hit dice to ribbons.

On the Wall of Force idea, in addition to the orientation of the walls, Wall of Force and related effects (Resilient Sphere, Forcecage) explicitly can't cause suffocation.

A) It says that no where in Wall of Force.
B) Doesn't matter if they are permanencied. He's still a non-issue.

[Kaelik]

Finally the plan to trap the tarrasque within walls of force faces the issues of
1) Researching a wall of force spell that can be cast horizontally
2) Researching the tarrasque to the point that you can reasonably dig a hole large enough for him to fit into
3) Find a caster who would be willing to shell out the THOUSANDS of experience you would need to make each wall of force permanent
4) Find a way to lure the tarrasque into said hole (not much you can do if it just wants to go the other way for some reason)
5) Hope nobody you care about falls into the hole with the tarrasque
6) Casting the necessary Walls of Force to trap the tarrasque and then make them permanent while he tries to climb his way out, the tiniest obstruction to where you want the wall to go makes the spell fail)
7) Wait around for him to suffocate, which will take a while
8) Accomplish all this without attracting the attention of anyone who might say anything to anyone who might make a remark that could possibly be heard by someone who could inform somebody who has any number of reasons to want the tarrasque to be alive and free or simply alive and also has some method of destroying your walls of force (not as hard as one might think)
9) Hope that the tarrasque doesn't have a bottle of air somewhere on his body from his rampages
10) PRAY that the tarrasque isn't the material planes equivalent of Galactus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactus)

But other than that, you're fine.

Or you could just ignore 1-10 since this is just a way to seal him away to prevent him from devouring some town. And the XP for beating a CR 20 is probably enough to make up for the difference.

(Also, note that all but one of the Walls is cast before the Tarrasque shows up, the other one just takes a readied action to cast as soon as he falls through.)

[Jack Mann]

Well, I said it was kind of cheap. The main issue is that even if you fail the first time, you can fly off, rest, and come back the next day. The tarrasque doesn't heal the drain, so you just keep summoning allips until he's been hit enough times.

It can essentially be done in core, but it's likely to take longer. An evil or neutral cleric can command allips to hit the tarrasque. The only problem is that the core-only cleric takes a lot longer to get allips.

[triforcel]

Or you could just ignore 1-10 since this is just a way to seal him away to prevent him from devouring some town. And the XP for beating a CR 20 is probably enough to make up for the difference.

(Also, note that all but one of the Walls is cast before the Tarrasque shows up, the other one just takes a readied action to cast as soon as he falls through.)

Except that not everyone will want the tarrasque sealed away. Especially if 10 is true, then you're facing ramifications from one or more dieties if not creation itself.

[Anxe]

What's the LA for a Were-Tarrasque? :smallwink:

It'd have to be pretty damn high. Maybe even 20.

[Arbitrarity]

It'd have to be pretty damn high. Maybe even 20.

I'd say 3. However, 48 racial HD make it rather unfeasable :smallbiggrin:

[Anxe]

THREE?!?! It's got regeneration 40! and 30 natural armor! Colossal size! Stats out the wazoo. SR, DR, immunities galore. Wicked natural weapons, a frightful presence, that reflective skin thingy, and finally a wicked stomach. It sure looked like 20 to me. Not a pitiful three.

[Enzario]

DM's solution to players trying to kill Tarrasque and being really, really arrogant about it: Pull a Godzilla

"Wait, he's pregnant?!?"

[Jack Mann]

An ECL 68 being with the tarrasque's abilities would be pretty pathetic. Honestly, an ECL 48 (no LA at all) wouldn't be that tough, compared to other epic characters. Even non-spellcasters.

[brian c]

An ECL 68 being with the tarrasque's abilities would be pretty pathetic. Honestly, an ECL 48 (no LA at all) wouldn't be that tough, compared to other epic characters. Even non-spellcasters.

And that's why Racial hit dice aren't equivalent to class level hit dice. The Tarrasque has 48 HD but is only a CR 20, whereas any PC that would count as CR 20 would have 20 HD (and those with less would have been using a LA, which is commonly agreed to be suboptimal)

[Jack Mann]

*Nods* Pretty much my point. Of course, a tarrasque with gear, better feats, and working as part of a group would be a lot tougher. Definitely worth its CR at that point, and a bit more besides.

EDIT: Actually, there's an idea. Has anyone tried rebuilding the Tarrasque from the ground up to do what it was meant to do? Sounds like a good homebrew job...

[Callos_DeTerran]

9) Hope that the tarrasque doesn't have a bottle of air somewhere on his body from his rampages

Unfortunately that doesn't really work...the tarrasque's stomach is one of, if not the most, effecient engine of destruction in the multiverse. Once your in Stomach 1 of three, you just pray to die before going to 2 or 3.

[triforcel]

Unfortunately that doesn't really work...the tarrasque's stomach is one of, if not the most, effecient engine of destruction in the multiverse. Once your in Stomach 1 of three, you just pray to die before going to 2 or 3.

It doesn't have to be in his stomach, when he smashes through a house or a castle one could have become wedged in his shell or something. I'm not saying it's likely, but if you spring this on a DM he might call it.

[sikyon]

4x Scrolls of flying + 4x Wands of Acid Arrows should do the trick. No SR or save, easy hit against touch attacks. 4x Wands will overcome fast healing. Just have to get a Scroll of Wish too.

[Callos_DeTerran]

4x Scrolls of flying + 4x Wands of Acid Arrows should do the trick. No SR or save, easy hit against touch attacks. 4x Wands will overcome fast healing. Just have to get a Scroll of Wish too.

...'cept your using only one wand at a time, two if you have dual wand wielder for a maxium of 16 damage a round, that most likely will not persist too long (if you get a store bought one which uses the lowest possible CL for the item which means...16 damage a round) and the regeneration 40 easily heals that up.

...This is ignoring the 30% chance that your arrow reflects off of it's carapace and hits you right back.

[triforcel]

I believe he means four people, each one using a wand. Though that still amounts to a maximum of 32 damage for each round's worth of casting and with the lasting effects it might take him down, you're still going to get hit with a lot of arrows yourself.

[Mojo_Rat]

Out of curiosity has anyone ever beaten one of these in a normal game where no metagaming was used?.

It seems to me that PC's without access to the MM entry in character would likely die horrible deaths to it.

But maybe im looking at it wrong. Ive never personally faught one or been in any game where it might ever come up.

[skywalker]

Out of curiosity has anyone ever beaten one of these in a normal game where no metagaming was used?.

It seems to me that PC's without access to the MM entry in character would likely die horrible deaths to it.

But maybe im looking at it wrong. Ive never personally faught one or been in any game where it might ever come up.


Higher levels are different from lower ones(skywalker, you win the obvious statement prize!). At level 20, a spellcaster who rolls a 12 or better on his caster level check gets to affect the thing. You can finger of death the tarrasque, when it wakes back up, you can realize that the thing is one tough monster, and then go home and come back prepared with a wish. That was easy and completely core.

No, you didn't just randomly encounter it and defeat it, but who does? The thing is legendary, you'd have to know something about it before you fought it, what do you define as meta-gaming?

[Jack Mann]

Well, that's part of the poor design of the tarrasque. Either you know about it--and it's an easy fight--or you don't. If you don't know about it, you can't defeat it. This is bad monster design, since there aren't any real clues of the monster itself to help players figure out how to beat it. The only way to find the information is either through DM fiat ("An old man walks up, leaning heavily with terrible age. 'I know of that beast,' he says. 'I hunted it in my vanished youth. It can only be defeated if you deal over nine hundred points of nonlethal damage to it and then use the Wish or Miracle spells. It cannot be hurt by the following things..."), a DC 58 knowledge check (and if they're easily making DC 58 knowledge checks, they're high enough that the tarrasque is no longer a great threat), or divinations. And the divinations pretty much reveal what the DM decides is applicable (Are the tarrasque's vulnerabilities part of the legends surrounding it? If so, how did people learn about them? How did they find out how to kill it if no one's ever managed to kill it? Do the gods know how to defeat it, and are they willing to tell you?). You can't even try to beat it the "hard way." Without knowing that wish or miracle is involved, you can't keep it dead.

Now, granted, you can go on a quest to learn how to defeat the tarrasque, and that can be a worthy challenge, but once you know the trick, the tarrasque just isn't that big a deal. At least, not at the levels where you're meant to be fighting it.

And then there's the problem that, frankly, everyone knows about the tarrasque, out of game. Sure, you don't want to metagame, but going on a long quest to learn something that you already know just feels pointless.

If I were to redesign the tarrasque, I'd have the weakness unspecified. I'd have a few different possible weaknesses that a DM could choose from, with suggested ways to hint to the players what they are, so they could build quests up around defeating the tarrasque. And then I'd make it difficult to fight even after learning the weaknesses. If they aren't risking life and limb, then it doesn't deserve the reputation the tarrasque enjoys. In my eyes, the tarrasque should be the last step you take before you go to truly epic levels. It should be the last real challenge of non-epic D&D.

[ASCIISkull]

On the Wall of Force idea, in addition to the orientation of the walls, Wall of Force and related effects (Resilient Sphere, Forcecage) explicitly can't cause suffocation.

Not on their own, but once those walls of force are in place it's pretty easy to submerge/bury/cover with a thin layer of cement to stop air from circulating.

[Khanderas]

Good point about the travelling distance.
1-3 days of eating is good. But after that it should vanish, unscryable, undetectable (just blinking out is cheap, but more of a horror movie bit, youknow axemurderer is surrounded, backs behind a corner and is gone. Yes I know the size of Mr T).
Then after the few months randomly appear somewhere (DM choice) randomly and ravage the countryside. Or City. I am told that one of the theories about this beast is that it is a punishment by some god, possibly slain/forgotten.
Even if killed it would appear again after those few months. Winning a fight (wish and all) would give good loots but only reset its respawn timer.

And yes, some ranged attack is needed, defenses aside.
Edit: Oooh ohh. Give him at will ability to telekinisis you to eating range :smallbiggrin: (if you manage to distract him enough from eating things in range)

[Thrawn183]

I think the real problem is people are forgetting its a CR 20. Its not THAT easy to take on 4 per day. So yeah, if its a one time encounter out of the blue, it totally fails its CR for all the above mentioned reasons, but if its the 3rd encounter of the day, where the party has had a lot of their all day buffs dispelled by say... a CR 20 dragon or Balor for instance, than it would be a more interesting fight.

Sadly, I think the designers didn't realize just how important all day flight etc. are and how pretty much every 20th level party can't be touched by the tarrasque (if you're 20th level and you can't fly, you're gonna die).

[Dausuul]

Out of curiosity has anyone ever beaten one of these in a normal game where no metagaming was used?.

It seems to me that PC's without access to the MM entry in character would likely die horrible deaths to it.

Not likely. PCs at anywhere near that level have both flight and teleportation in spades. A melee type might try going toe-to-toe and getting slaughtered, but the casters would take to the sky because that's what 20th-level casters do.

[tainsouvra]

It seems to me that PC's without access to the MM entry in character would likely die horrible deaths to it. Looking at it from the other side, with the amount of divination and such available to a 20th-level party, the only way the PC's wouldn't know how to kill it is if the DM simply decides that the party shouldn't know...which is kind of a metagaming situation of its own.

[Mojo_Rat]

Well, that's part of the poor design of the tarrasque. Either you know about it--and it's an easy fight--or you don't. If you don't know about it, you can't defeat it. This is bad monster design, since there aren't any real clues of the monster itself to help players figure out how to beat it. The only way to find the information is either through DM fiat ("An old man walks up, leaning heavily with terrible age. 'I know of that beast,' he says. 'I hunted it in my vanished youth. It can only be defeated if you deal over nine hundred points of nonlethal damage to it and then use the Wish or Miracle spells. It cannot be hurt by the following things..."), a DC 58 knowledge check (and if they're easily making DC 58 knowledge checks, they're high enough that the tarrasque is no longer a great threat), or divinations. And the divinations pretty much reveal what the DM decides is applicable (Are the tarrasque's vulnerabilities part of the legends surrounding it? If so, how did people learn about them? How did they find out how to kill it if no one's ever managed to kill it? Do the gods know how to defeat it, and are they willing to tell you?). You can't even try to beat it the "hard way." Without knowing that wish or miracle is involved, you can't keep it dead.

Now, granted, you can go on a quest to learn how to defeat the tarrasque, and that can be a worthy challenge, but once you know the trick, the tarrasque just isn't that big a deal. At least, not at the levels where you're meant to be fighting it.

And then there's the problem that, frankly, everyone knows about the tarrasque, out of game. Sure, you don't want to metagame, but going on a long quest to learn something that you already know just feels pointless.

If I were to redesign the tarrasque, I'd have the weakness unspecified. I'd have a few different possible weaknesses that a DM could choose from, with suggested ways to hint to the players what they are, so they could build quests up around defeating the tarrasque. And then I'd make it difficult to fight even after learning the weaknesses. If they aren't risking life and limb, then it doesn't deserve the reputation the tarrasque enjoys. In my eyes, the tarrasque should be the last step you take before you go to truly epic levels. It should be the last real challenge of non-epic D&D.

To be honest the going on a quest to learnhow to slay it bit sounds like it would be a Fun adventure. At that point when its finished the Dm can even adjust the thing based on the quest.

As i said im my post ive never had characters that high so its kind of a mystery zone for me despite playing the game since 1st edition. But I do agree the 6 toughness feats are a bit of a useless.

[Lord Zentei]

Tarrasque is only the strongest monster in the Monster Manual because Dragons have their own table. Otherwise he's a joke.

Though shivering touch can turn dragons into a joke as well.

To be fair, Shivering Touch is one of those things no DM in their right minds should allow in their campaigns (especially if combined with metamagic abuse :smallsigh: ).

I honestly cannot fathom what WotC were thinking when they cleared that through playtesting (assuming they did playtest it at all).

[....]

Not only do I feel that the allip solution is really cheesy, but I also agree with several people that it just shouldn't work, though there is no errata for the tarrasque so either they meant to make him vulnerable to ability drain, or they still haven't realized their mistakes.

The plan to drown the tarrasque while he's asleep, or to have fighter sneak up to him and coup de grace repeatedly both fail because there's little chance of the tarrasque sleeping through either of those and once it wakes up you'll be hard pressed to escape with your characters that have been working so hard to defeat the tarrasque at the lowest level possible.

Finally the plan to trap the tarrasque within walls of force faces the issues of
1) Researching a wall of force spell that can be cast horizontally
2) Researching the tarrasque to the point that you can reasonably dig a hole large enough for him to fit into
3) Find a caster who would be willing to shell out the THOUSANDS of experience you would need to make each wall of force permanent
4) Find a way to lure the tarrasque into said hole (not much you can do if it just wants to go the other way for some reason)
5) Hope nobody you care about falls into the hole with the tarrasque
6) Casting the necessary Walls of Force to trap the tarrasque and then make them permanent while he tries to climb his way out, the tiniest obstruction to where you want the wall to go makes the spell fail)
7) Wait around for him to suffocate, which will take a while
8) Accomplish all this without attracting the attention of anyone who might say anything to anyone who might make a remark that could possibly be heard by someone who could inform somebody who has any number of reasons to want the tarrasque to be alive and free or simply alive and also has some method of destroying your walls of force (not as hard as one might think)
9) Hope that the tarrasque doesn't have a bottle of air somewhere on his body from his rampages
10) PRAY that the tarrasque isn't the material planes equivalent of Galactus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactus)

But other than that, you're fine.

I loled irl.

[blacksabre]

For al those "sufficate" "drown" plans out there.. I personally rule this won't work..not in any real time anyway.

-The Tarrasque has no lair. When it's done eating it finds a suitably large amount of earth and melts into it. Doesn't dig or make a hole or anything, just melts down far enough that it doesn't think it'll be disturbed and goes to sleep....

IMO, if the T can sleep deep in the ground "with no air to breathe" for months on end, then he either requires none, or metabolizes oxygen so slowly, he can last weeks on a single breath when active, and months when hibernating (which then requirs him to come to the surface..

[Jack Mann]

To be honest the going on a quest to learnhow to slay it bit sounds like it would be a Fun adventure. At that point when its finished the Dm can even adjust the thing based on the quest.

As i said im my post ive never had characters that high so its kind of a mystery zone for me despite playing the game since 1st edition. But I do agree the 6 toughness feats are a bit of a useless.

Well, a quest to find out how to defeat it could be fun, sure. But when you already know how to beat it, then it's just not as much fun. You, the player, should be learning along the quest, not just your character. That's why I suggest mixing it up, so that players don't already know what it's weak against. Maybe there's a special sword they need to find. Maybe it can only be killed after it eats the rare herb of Sangua Muey. It doesn't have to be just >900 damage and Miracle. Let players feel a real sense of accomplishment when they kill the Tarrasque.

[Crow]

If my gish takes down the tarrasque (he can do it in an "arena", but he probably won't ever get a chance to try in-game), can he teleport with it to the open ocean while it's unconcious in order to keep it dead after he drops it to negatives? (drown it so it doesn't regenerate?)

I am asking an honest question...not trying to bend the rules here.

[Chronos]

Out of curiosity has anyone ever beaten one of these in a normal game where no metagaming was used?.

It seems to me that PC's without access to the MM entry in character would likely die horrible deaths to it.Assuming no prior knowledge, an adventuring band encounters it, gets their butts handed to them, and retreats (possibly in need of a True Resurrection or three). The spellcasters then research it, find out whatever they can, and go back after it with a specific plan. They don't actually need to find out very much in their researches: For instance, suppose that all they learn is what the thing's called. They've probably noticed from the first battle that it resists or shrugs off most of their spells, so the smart money is on a spell which allows no save or SR. Trap the Soul (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trapTheSoul.htm) fits the bill, provided that you can find one really valuable gem, and convince the Tarrasque to accept a "gift". Well, that's easy: The Tarrasque eats everything it sees, as you no doubt noticed. You inscribe the final word of the spell on a dead cow or something, and drop it in Big T's path. Grabbing it and gulping it down surely counts as accepting it, and poof, you have your own special Tarrasque paperweight. You didn't even need to learn that it's vulnerable to acid and non-Lightning Bolt electricity, or that a Wish stops its regeneration.


One encounter/adventure hook idea I've contemplated throwing at a mid-level party (if I ever get a chance to play again, much less DM):

Many years ago, an adventuring band fought the Tarrasque, and actually managed to defeat it. But they didn't have a Miracle or Wish available to finish the job, nor the resources to get one. So instead, they established a community around the monster, dedicated to continually dealing it massive damage to keep it unconscious. Unfortunately, the community has dwindled, and meanwhile, the chunks of flesh they've been hacking off of it (and which never rot away, and are too tough for anything to eat) are corrupting te surrounding land where they're dragging them away to dump. The current players come across the community (likely guided by the horrible stench), the current leader explains the situation to them, and the party then has to come up with some more permanent solution to the problem.

[martyboy74]

If my gish takes down the tarrasque (he can do it in an "arena", but he probably won't ever get a chance to try in-game), can he teleport with it to the open ocean while it's unconcious in order to keep it dead after he drops it to negatives? (drown it so it doesn't regenerate?)

I am asking an honest question...not trying to bend the rules here.

By the rules, yes. Of course, any caster with Legend Lore, Teleport, Locate Creature, and a whole lotta Potions of Water Breathing can dredge him out.


Also, on defeating the Tarrasque without prior knowledge, a 20th level party will probably survive their first ecounter, although they certainly wouldn't be able to kill it. After all, the Tarrasque doesn't particularly look like a flying creature; I know that if I saw it, I would get some flight on me, and get real high. Two or three times its height up.

[Alex12]

Many years ago, an adventuring band fought the Tarrasque, and actually managed to defeat it. But they didn't have a Miracle or Wish available to finish the job, nor the resources to get one. So instead, they established a community around the monster, dedicated to continually dealing it massive damage to keep it unconscious. Unfortunately, the community has dwindled, and meanwhile, the chunks of flesh they've been hacking off of it (and which never rot away, and are too tough for anything to eat) are corrupting te surrounding land where they're dragging them away to dump. The current players come across the community (likely guided by the horrible stench), the current leader explains the situation to them, and the party then has to come up with some more permanent solution to the problem.

If you do that, I have three words for you: Tarrasque-hide leather.

[Josh the Aspie]

One encounter/adventure hook idea I've contemplated throwing at a mid-level party (if I ever get a chance to play again, much less DM):

Many years ago, an adventuring band fought the Tarrasque, and actually managed to defeat it. But they didn't have a Miracle or Wish available to finish the job, nor the resources to get one. So instead, they established a community around the monster, dedicated to continually dealing it massive damage to keep it unconscious. Unfortunately, the community has dwindled, and meanwhile, the chunks of flesh they've been hacking off of it (and which never rot away, and are too tough for anything to eat) are corrupting te surrounding land where they're dragging them away to dump. The current players come across the community (likely guided by the horrible stench), the current leader explains the situation to them, and the party then has to come up with some more permanent solution to the problem.

Intersting plot. I seem to recall someone else on another board having created a plot where a city was founded on the tarsque, and magical items and potions of longevity were created from it's blood and the like.

Unfortunately, there does seem to be one small detail wrong (unless you're house ruling it)
See below (emphasis mine)



Regeneration (Ex)
No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque. The tarrasque regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If the tarrasque fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature’s full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hp). The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem’s cursed wound ability.

The tarrasque can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hit points) and using a wish or miracle spell to keep it dead.

If the tarrasque loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally). The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.

[Cruiser1]

Wall of force makes a vertical plane only, so you can't enclose someone in a box made entirely of walls of force.
You can still trap the Terrasque (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm) using Wall of Force (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wallOfForce.htm). For the top and bottom of the cage, just cast a bunch of vertical walls side by side, close enough together so a colossal creature can't squeeze out between them, forming what looks like bars above and below when you're inside the cage. That won't cause suffocation, but it will create a convenient location for drowning, or at least keep it immobile where it can't hurt you, while you puncushion it with arrows and such.

[Nowhere Girl]

Fixing the tarrasque to be powerful is easy because most of the "oh, that's no problem to kill" plans come from a combination of players combing through every last detail of the Monster Manual well in advance and forming complex plans based on the descriptions therein, taking advantage of clever but cheesy loopholes (the allip trick), as well as generally abusing the obnoxious power of full casters (the allip trick).

The solution, I think, is to stop looking at the tarrasque as being what's broken (other than not having a ranged attack, which should be easy to fix for a huge thing that ought to have no problem flinging boulders, trees and whatever else is handy) and instead recognize that the real problem is metagaming players who've memorized the Monster Manual and are using information their characters shouldn't have ... as well as magic just plain being overpowered.

My fix? Either make sure your players aren't powergamers who've made a careful study of everything in the Monster Manual, or failing that, change things about monsters randomly ... and don't tell the players. When they complain, "But can't do that/is vulnerable to this/is immune to that," ask, "So ... you're saying you were metagaming and using information your character didn't have?" Welcome to a world full of monsters the players suddenly [I]don't have encyclopedic knowledge of after all (unless someone bothered to take Knowledge skills, which suddenly become useful after all).

That, and fix casters, which is a whole other kettle of fish. :smalltongue:

[Porthos]

You know, this thread isn't exactly the first one that fantasizes about capturing/using the Tarrasque for their own ends (endless supply of food, raw materials, et etc).

All I have to say to that is: Be careful what you wish for! (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=261519) :smallbiggrin:

That thread is a really great read in general, and a real must read for any DM with a slightly sadistic bent. :smallamused: Much like the infamous Pun-Pun thread, that one really takes off after a few pages as evil cruel heartless people DM's share their ideas on how to really make that a creey and unsettling area.

[Eldritch_Ent]

-The Tarrasque has no lair. When it's done eating it finds a suitably large amount of earth and melts into it. Doesn't dig or make a hole or anything, just melts down far enough that it doesn't think it'll be disturbed and goes to sleep....

Where, exactly, did you get this information? I'd like the source on this one, please. :smallconfused: Because as it stands, Melting just doesn't seem to fit the Tarrasque for me. Although making it an extremely efficient burrower isn't out of the question, literal melting is... Look, just- where'd you get this information, and why should I trust it?

[Jack Mann]

Fixing the tarrasque to be powerful is easy because most of the "oh, that's no problem to kill" plans come from a combination of players combing through every last detail of the Monster Manual well in advance and forming complex plans based on the descriptions therein, taking advantage of clever but cheesy loopholes (the allip trick), as well as generally abusing the obnoxious power of full casters (the allip trick).

The solution, I think, is to stop looking at the tarrasque as being what's broken (other than not having a ranged attack, which should be easy to fix for a huge thing that ought to have no problem flinging boulders, trees and whatever else is handy) and instead recognize that the real problem is metagaming players who've memorized the Monster Manual and are using information their characters shouldn't have ... as well as magic just plain being overpowered.

My fix? Either make sure your players aren't powergamers who've made a careful study of everything in the Monster Manual, or failing that, change things about monsters randomly ... and don't tell the players. When they complain, "But can't do that/is vulnerable to this/is immune to that," ask, "So ... you're saying you were metagaming and using information your character didn't have?" Welcome to a world full of monsters the players suddenly [I]don't have encyclopedic knowledge of after all (unless someone bothered to take Knowledge skills, which suddenly become useful after all).

That, and fix casters, which is a whole other kettle of fish. :smalltongue:

Not everyone who's combed through the Monster Manual is a powergamer. Not everyone who's done a careful study of the monsters is intentionally metagaming. Some of them are DMs, or hope to be. And some of them just enjoy reading up on monsters. I got the Monster Manual first, before any of the other books, because I was interested in the monsters. I thought they were cool. Only playing with people who've never DMed, never hope to DM, and don't much care about monsters might be a bit difficult.

Your second solution is much better, however. The best solution is to--as I suggested--change things up. An even better solution, if you have time and the ability, is to homebrew new monsters.

[Nowhere Girl]

Your second solution is much better, however. The best solution is to--as I suggested--change things up. An even better solution, if you have time and the ability, is to homebrew new monsters.

That's a good one, but I also especially like the idea of deliberately tripping up a metagamer by using an established monster with special twists, just to make the point abundantly clear to the players. The goal isn't to kill the person but simply to make an example of the person and show that if you're using non-character knowledge to "win," you might find that's a "losing" strategy here.

Of course, that's the vindictive and vengeful side of me talking. The nicer side would spell out my intentions clearly in advance and mention that Knowledge skills might play an important role for anyone who does still want to use special knowledge of monsters against them. Just imagine it: Knowledge suddenly becomes a prized and crucial skill! *gasp*

[Charles Phipps]

I don't give the Tarrasque Stats, he's Godzilla. The Tarrasque is immune to all magic, is invulnerable to all weapons, and has radioactive fire breath that can devastate anything for half a mile. Anytime he shows up in the game, it's as a natural disaster the PCs have to deal with and not something that can be fought. Oddly, this means I can use him at 1st level as well as 20th or beyond.

But yeah, PCs tend to have ridiculously easy ideas like teleporting him to the Negative Material Plane or other Comic book methods. In my campaigns, I suggest that just doesn't work.

[Nowhere Girl]

I don't give the Tarrasque Stats, he's Godzilla. The Tarrasque is immune to all magic, is invulnerable to all weapons, and has radioactive fire breath that can devastate anything for half a mile.

Anytime he shows up in the game, it's as a natural disaster the PCs have to deal with and not something that can be fought. Oddly, this means I can use him at 1st level as well as 20th or beyond.

Well, look out. The InviciBatmanWizard will no doubt Teleport out and hide in his MMM until this all blows over. He wouldn't want to, you know ... risk a stubbed toe or something. :smallamused:

[Jack Mann]

That's a good one, but I also especially like the idea of deliberately tripping up a metagamer by using an established monster with special twists, just to make the point abundantly clear to the players. The goal isn't to kill the person but simply to make an example of the person and show that if you're using non-character knowledge to "win," you might find that's a "losing" strategy here.

Of course, that's the vindictive and vengeful side of me talking. The nicer side would spell out my intentions clearly in advance and mention that Knowledge skills might play an important role for anyone who does still want to use special knowledge of monsters against them. Just imagine it: Knowledge suddenly becomes a prized and crucial skill! *gasp*

Not that it would work well against the Tarrasque, with a DC 58 check for even basic information. But that's a problem with the knowledge skill.

[Chronos]

If the tarrasque loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally).Bah, I say that if a creature has 35 Con, disease immunity, and regeneration, its flesh isn't going to rot. The DM is allowed to say things like that :smallcool:.

[renevq]

Well, a 16th level warlock could solo a Tarrasque.

Fell Flight so he doesn't reach you, then spam Word of Changing until he inevitably fails both saves. To make it more fun, turn it into a fish.:smallsmile:

[Nowhere Girl]

Well, a 16th level warlock could solo a Tarrasque.

Fell Flight so he doesn't reach you, then spam Word of Changing until he inevitably fails both saves. To make it more fun, turn it into a fish.:smallsmile:

You realize that even a completely basic tarrasque still has a Strength score of 45 and every right to fling whatever's handy (trees, boulders, whatever) at a flier, right? Improvised weapons have a range increment of 10 feet, so that's a 50-foot range with a +39 attack bonus (or as low as +31 at max range), dealing damage equal to whatever the object is big enough to do +17.

Now we run into an interesting situation. The warlock, by level 16, can fire a Word of Changing from as far as 65 feet away, just out of reach. Putting aside whether it's really logical that the tarrasque can't throw things farther than that, what about the tarrasque's reach?

Bear with me. Imagine a creature with a reach of 50 feet. If it threw something, and we didn't count its reach, then the object it threw would, as the create threw its arm out to full extension and released it ... simply plop to the ground, having already reached its maximum distance. Appropriate per the strictest RAW reading? Maybe. Reasonable? Uh, no.

So if we can count the tarrasque's reach, then that's 15 extra feet (can't count 5 feet of it since normal people have a 5-foot reach), and ... hey. 65 feet.

Don't like that logic? Fine. I'll just add hulking hurler to the tarrasque. Now try to fly out of range. :smallmad:

Let's not forget that terrain features matter. If you end your turn 65 feet above the very tippy-top of the tarrasque, and it then uses its move action to ascend a hill, leap, and then throw something while in the air, at the apex of its leap, what happens? How are you staying exactly at your maximum range from it in the first place? Other than the GM just giving you that as a freebie, what lets your character judge exactly 65 feet of distance? A Spot check? Oops, not a class skill. A built-in rangefinder? Are you a street samurai warlock?

What if the tarrasque ends its move crouched low, you zoom down lower to get in range for your spell, and on its turn, it suddenly extends to full height? A Colossal creature has a vertical reach of 128 feet when it really stretches up there. That's without jumping. What's the plan now?

You could argue that a tarrasque would never think to perform any of these actions, but the fact is, predators can be cunning without being rocket scientists.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Where, exactly, did you get this information? I'd like the source on this one, please. :smallconfused: Because as it stands, Melting just doesn't seem to fit the Tarrasque for me. Although making it an extremely efficient burrower isn't out of the question, literal melting is... Look, just- where'd you get this information, and why should I trust it?

He got it from my earlier post in the thread which came from the Ecology of the Tarrasque. It's an interesting read if nothing else and makes me very very interested about finding a way to bottle the tarrasque's digestive acids (Not the one burning you in it's gullet, the acid in the second stomach that has an disjunction effect and would make for one fun as hell thrown weapon)

[Kaelik]

You realize that even a completely basic tarrasque still has a Strength score of 45 and every right to fling whatever's handy (trees, boulders, whatever) at a flier, right? Improvised weapons have a range increment of 10 feet, so that's a 50-foot range with a +39 attack bonus (or as low as +31 at max range), dealing damage equal to whatever the object is big enough to do +17.

Now we run into an interesting situation. The warlock, by level 16, can fire a Word of Changing from as far as 65 feet away, just out of reach. Putting aside whether it's really logical that the tarrasque can't throw things farther than that, what about the tarrasque's reach?

Bear with me. Imagine a creature with a reach of 50 feet. If it threw something, and we didn't count its reach, then the object it threw would, as the create threw its arm out to full extension and released it ... simply plop to the ground, having already reached its maximum distance. Appropriate per the strictest RAW reading? Maybe. Reasonable? Uh, no.

So if we can count the tarrasque's reach, then that's 15 extra feet (can't count 5 feet of it since normal people have a 5-foot reach), and ... hey. 65 feet.

Don't like that logic? Fine. I'll just add hulking hurler to the tarrasque. Now try to fly out of range. :smallmad:

Let's not forget that terrain features matter. If you end your turn 65 feet above the very tippy-top of the tarrasque, and it then uses its move action to ascend a hill, leap, and then throw something while in the air, at the apex of its leap, what happens? How are you staying exactly at your maximum range from it in the first place? Other than the GM just giving you that as a freebie, what lets your character judge exactly 65 feet of distance? A Spot check? Oops, not a class skill. A built-in rangefinder? Are you a street samurai warlock?

What if the tarrasque ends its move crouched low, you zoom down lower to get in range for your spell, and on its turn, it suddenly extends to full height? A Colossal creature has a vertical reach of 128 feet when it really stretches up there. That's without jumping. What's the plan now?

You could argue that a tarrasque would never think to perform any of these actions, but the fact is, predators can be cunning without being rocket scientists.

Which is why you go gain two levels, so that you can be permanently invisible while doing it.

[Nowhere Girl]

Which is why you go gain two levels, so that you can be permanently invisible while doing it.

Let's see ... DC to notice the presence of an active invisible creature? 20. The tarrasque has a +17 to Spot and needs a ... a 3.

Tarrasques also have the Scent ability, which ignores invisibility entirely. Noting the direction of the source of a particular scent is a move action, and if you're hurling trees and boulders, I think direction will suffice. To top it off, tarrasques actually have Blind Fight as a feat.

Next?

[Armads]

The word of changing will have to get past the tarrasque's SR. The tarrasque could also move a few feet in the direction of the warlock (randomly?) and then swiping randomly at thin air. If the warlock fails a few will saves, the warlock becomes panicked. And give the huge save bonuses of the tarrasque vs the warlock's saves, who will win?



Let's see ... DC to notice the presence of an active invisible creature? 20. The tarrasque has a +17 to Spot and needs a ... a 3.

He takes a -6 penalty to his spot check from distance. Also, the DC 20 spot check will just tell you "something's there". He needs to make a spot check opposed by the warlock's hide check, and the warlock gets a +20 to his hide check if he's moving. If he's still, then he gets a +40.



Tarrasques also have the Scent ability, which ignores invisibility entirely.
Scent has a range of 30ft normally, and has a max range of 60ft, which the warlock's out of.

The problem with the tarrasque is that it's either unkillable or ridiculously easy to defeat. If you can fly and possess ranged attacks, it's doomed. If it has a ranged attack and can fly, you're doomed unless you're a caster (but that's the problem with the caster, not the tarrasque).

Barring epic spells, I think an Undead Tarrasque is unkillable (a way to get an undead tarrasque is via Half-Dragon, then turning it into a Dracolich).

[Josh the Aspie]

*starts to imagine what it would take to get half dragon tarrasques, then groans, and runs for the brain bleach* *pauses* Wait. If the tarrasque is female, then you DO have the Godzilla approach. And then you have to deal with a CR 20+ Dragon, A tararsque, and the offspring.

[GeneralTacticus]

You want to solo the Tarrasque at minimal personal risk? Take a 17th level Warblade with the manouevres War Master's Charge and Lightning Recovery, the stance Leading the Charge, and the Leadership feat, preferably with a combination of reputation and Charisma sufficient to put his Leadership score at 19 or above (Easily doable). Give him a wizard cohort, and buy him a Ring of Three Wishes to keep the Tarrasque dead.

When you hear that the Tarrasque is on a rampage somewhere, go there. When you're within, oh, a few kilometres of it, have the wizard use 3-4 castings of Mass Fly to cover himself, you, and at least 40 of your followers. Meanwhile,. activate Leading the Charge. Fly off to find the Tarrasque, with your followers in a tight formation around you. Make sure everyone is the same height above the ground - ~100 feet should do.

When you find the Tarrasque, form up directly above it. Stay ~100 feet above its head; as a Colossal creature, it's ~64 feet high (if its higher than that, this actually work to your advantage), putting you 164 feet above the ground, and well out of its 128-foot vertical reach. Even if the DM maxes its Jump skill 51 ranks from 48 HD, +17 for STR, -6 for movement, to a total of +62), then has it take a running jump and rolls a 20, that's still only a 20-foot jump - you're still a good 15 feet out of reach.

Now use War Master's Charge.

You and all 40+ of your followers immediately charge the Tarrasque, all of you getting a +2 bonus for every person involved, giving a total of +80 (for 40 people). Given the Tarrasque's AC of 35, I'd say this is more than sufficient to hit it. Furthermore, between the manouevre itself (+25 damage to the attack made by every affected ally) and Leading the Charge (+Initiator Level to charging damage - +17, in this case), all of your followers gain +42 damage before they even roll their weapon damage. The Tarrasque's DR of 15 reduces that to 27; we'll ignore weapon damage, because frankly, it's irrelevant. Your army can pull this off with the fists if they want to.

Assuming there are 40 of you charging the Tarrasque, all hitting on anything but a 1, you will score at average of 38 hits. Each hit does 27 damage, for a total of 1026. This will leave the Tarrasque unconscious for a good 4-5 rounds - more than enough time for you to expend a Wish and make sure it never gets up again.

But what if you get particularly unlucky on your attack rolls? Really, this isn't a problem. As long as at least 34 of your guys score hits (i.e. with 40 attackers, 6 of them roll 1s), it will still be out long enough for you to Wish it dead. If you get horribly unlucky and more than 6 miss, you're still fine, because of the other nifty feature of War Master's Charge - if an opponent is struck by you and at least one ally, it is stunned for one round, no save.

So you fly up and recover your manouevres, and then you do it again. And again. And again. Eventually, it will fall over; it can't run away, because it has a move of 20 feetm, while your flying troops have 60. The only thing that can save it is either you rolling a 1 on both your attack and your reroll for Lightning Recovery, or else every last one of your followers rolling 1s on their attacks. If either of these happen, your followers are pretty much screwed, but you needn't be - your wizard cohort, who has been standing by in case of just such a disaster, casts a Quickened Dimension Door to emerge beside you (or else is a Conjuration specialist who took 10 level in Master Specialist), then teleports you and himself to safety. The Tarrasque will then proceed to Cleave through your other followers until nothing remains but fine red mist, but you're still alive - you can head off and recruit other followers, and try again, hoping to not be foiled by one-in-8000 chances this time.

Now I'll note that, with a Leadership score of 19, you actually have 48 followers, plus a 13th-level cohort. With 4 castings of Mass Fly, your wizard buddy can quite handily get you all into the air, allowing you to make 49 attacks (assuming the Wizard doesn't take a hand himself - he's standing by to rescue you if things go completely pear-shaped). In order for the Tarrasque to survive the first charge, you would need to roll 16 1s on 49 d20s. Needless to say to say, this isn't very likely.

Did I miss anything?

[Dhavaer]

Barring epic spells, I think an Undead Tarrasque is unkillable (a way to get an undead tarrasque is via Half-Dragon, then turning it into a Dracolich).

An undead tarrasque would lose Regeneration, making it very killable indeed.

[Armads]

You still can't take out the undead tarrasque, but it works for taking out the normal tarrasque. You aren't exactly 'soloing' the tarrasque...

EDIT: Where does it say that the undead tarrasque loses regeneration?

[Amiria]

Did I miss anything?

Yes, wrong order of spells: The wizard can't act after the quickened Dimension Door. He'd have to use the Teleport first to get to you and then use the quickened Dimension Door to whisk you to safety.

[Dhavaer]

You still can't take out the undead tarrasque, but it works for taking out the normal tarrasque. You aren't exactly 'soloing' the tarrasque...

EDIT: Where does it say that the undead tarrasque loses regeneration?

From the SRD:


Regeneration

Creatures with this extraordinary ability recover from wounds quickly and can even regrow or reattach severed body parts. Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage, and the creature automatically cures itself of nonlethal damage at a fixed rate per round, as given in the creature’s entry.

Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, deal damage to the creature normally; that sort of damage doesn’t convert to nonlethal damage and so doesn’t go away. The creature’s description includes the details. A regenerating creature that has been rendered unconscious through nonlethal damage can be killed with a coup de grace. The attack cannot be of a type that automatically converts to nonlethal damage.

Creatures with regeneration can regrow lost portions of their bodies and can reattach severed limbs or body parts. Severed parts die if they are not reattached.

Regeneration does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation.

Attack forms that don’t deal hit point damage ignore regeneration.

An attack that can cause instant death only threatens the creature with death if it is delivered by weapons that deal it lethal damage.

A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability.

[GeneralTacticus]

Yes, wrong order of spells: The wizard can't act after the quickened Dimension Door. He'd have to use the Teleport first to get to you and then use the quickened Dimension Door to whisk you to safety.

Meh, that works too. Out of curiosity, where does it say you can't act after casting a quickened spell?

Actually, it turns out I did miss a rather vital detail - Quickening a spell raises it by 4 levels, not 3, so a 13th-level Wizard can't Quicken a Dimension Door. He can use a Rod of Quickening, however, or be a Master Specialist (Conjuration).


You still can't take out the undead tarrasque, but it works for taking out the normal tarrasque. You aren't exactly 'soloing' the tarrasque...



Well, that depends on how you define "soloing". After all, for a character with Leadership, the cohort and followers are just as much a part of his abilities as a Fighter's Power Attack, a Druid's animal companion, or the summoned Allips suggested earlier.

Also, as far as XP distribution is concerned, you did it by yourself - all the XPs for the encounter go to you. Your followers gain none, and your cohort gets an amount determined by his level relative to yours, but they don't come out of your share.

[Dhavaer]

Meh, that works too. Out of curiosity, where does it say you can't act after casting a quickened spell?

'After using this spell, you can’t take any other actions until your next turn.'

From the spell description (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionDoor.htm) of dimension door.

[GeneralTacticus]

'After using this spell, you can’t take any other actions until your next turn.'

From the spell description (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionDoor.htm) of dimension door.

Huh. Don't know how I missed that. Thanks for the correction.

So, the Wizard could use Teleport to get to you and DimDoor to leave, but that does leave a 3% chance of a mishap that will probably get you killed. Alternatively, he could cast a Resilient Sphere on you and DimDoor in, then DimDoor out with you next turn (I don't know if there's any official ruling on whether teleportation works through a Resilient Sphere, but it seems reasonable to me). If that doesn't work, you can hide inside the Sphere and hope that the Tarrasque gets bored and wanders off before it runs out, or else just accept the 3% chance of your rescue going awry and you dying horribly.

EDIT: Actually, it occurs to me that if the Wizard is able to cast Teleport as a swift action through either of the methods I mentioned, an "off target" result needn't be the end of you - he can take another swift action to try again and still have time to escape with you in tow. It's only the "Similar Area" result that causes irreparable catastrophe.

[Armads]

Regeneration

Creatures with this extraordinary ability recover from wounds quickly and can even regrow or reattach severed body parts. Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage, and the creature automatically cures itself of nonlethal damage at a fixed rate per round, as given in the creature’s entry.

Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, deal damage to the creature normally; that sort of damage doesn’t convert to nonlethal damage and so doesn’t go away. The creature’s description includes the details. A regenerating creature that has been rendered unconscious through nonlethal damage can be killed with a coup de grace. The attack cannot be of a type that automatically converts to nonlethal damage.

Creatures with regeneration can regrow lost portions of their bodies and can reattach severed limbs or body parts. Severed parts die if they are not reattached.

Regeneration does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation.

Attack forms that don’t deal hit point damage ignore regeneration.

An attack that can cause instant death only threatens the creature with death if it is delivered by weapons that deal it lethal damage.

A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability.

I stand corrected.

[Nowhere Girl]

He takes a -6 penalty to his spot check from distance. Also, the DC 20 spot check will just tell you "something's there". He needs to make a spot check opposed by the warlock's hide check, and the warlock gets a +20 to his hide check if he's moving. If he's still, then he gets a +40.

If the warlock isn't doing anything, then he can't attack the tarrasque to begin with. If he is, then it's a DC 20 (okay, modified up slightly for distance, yes). Not to pinpoint, granted, but to notice.

As for pinpointing ...


Scent has a range of 30ft normally, and has a max range of 60ft, which the warlock's out of.

Sure, if you ignore all of the points I made in my post earlier about why the warlock maintaining a perfect 65-foot distance is unlikely at best, and how in fact the warlock may do well just to stay out of touch range, given how much vertical distance the tarrasque can potentially cover just by ducking low and then coming up, without even bothering to jump.

I mean, if I do squats, I probably go down like a foot or so. If the tarrasque does squats, it probably goes down like, what, a couple dozen feet at least? A few dozen maybe? Hell, that 20-foot speed it has must be just the one giant step it takes that turn!

The warlock has to be at least just inside that 65-foot window (apparently using that built-in rangefinder of his to know exactly how far away 65 feet is), but if the tarrasque ends one turn crouched low and then begins the next by surging up to its tippy toes, Mr. Warlock might have a teensy lil' problem.

Yay tactics?

[Armads]

Note that the maximum range is at 60ft ONLY if the warlock's upwind. The warlock can be downwind and the scent is reduced to a lowly 15ft.

[ASCIISkull]

The Hero's Feast spell creates enough magically delicious food for one creature per level. Feed him till he goes sleepy time and then deal with him.

[Chronos]

That sounds like the way my Gramma would deal with the Tarrasque. "Eat, eat! I don't want you to go away hungry. Look at you, you're skin and bones, eat more!" Actually, the way either of my grammas would, except the other one would say "Mange, mange" instead of "Eat, eat".

[SoD]

I've given some of my players (they're all new) a breif description of the Tarrasque...they like it. Maybe I'll let them find it in a dungeon somewhere...sleeping...or waking up. Heh. They're only level 2.