Feedback on home brew enhancement?

[Spartan_MD]

Stealth Weapons
1st-level rogue feature (enhances Sneak Attack)
You can use this feature to define your sneak attack eligible weapons, rather than using the definition in Sneak Attack
You practice your sneak attack with specially chosen weapons, which become sneak attack weapons for you. You can choose a number of weapons to be your stealth weapons equal to 5 + your Wisdom modifier (minimum of five weapons). The chosen weapons must each meet the following criteria:
• The weapon must be a simple or martial weapon.
• You must be proficient with the weapon.
• The weapon must lack these properties: heavy,
special, or two-handed.



The thought was that races that gained weapon proficiency could use those weapons for a sneak attack. Elven scouts using longswords and dwarven thieves chucking hand axes.

Does this seems a bit to powerful as written above? Ideas to nerf/balance? One thought I had was a loss of a skill or perhaps loss of thieves’ cant to makes the feature a variant rather than an enhancement.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Why wisdom?
I think intelligent fit better.

Pay attention that it gives the ability to use it on Versatile weapons.

It open the ability to SA with Great Weapon Fighting fighting style.

The dual scimitar also do it so there is a way to gain this ability in game.

It is a strong option, not a totally broken one.

[Keravath]

You realize that the house rule now excludes short bows, long bows and both light and heavy crossbows from sneak attack because they are all two-handed and/or heavy? You need to add an exception for ranged weapons to the rule.

If you want to leave out any synergies with GWF, just specify that melee attacks must be made one handed to be eligible for sneak attack.

[Lupine]

First thing, way too many "stealth weapons."
The average player should probably have 2-3, if you want to do this (this accomplishes the longsword thing you want.) But you have to ask why. The main effect is that a few characters can use a longsword for sneak attack, but why bother? at most, you get two more points of damage (4 on a crit), and then you step on fighters.


I would agree that throne weapons seem like they should get the sneak attack, but it's a power creep that really isn't useful.

Lastly, Most rogues use high stealth, slight of hand, etc. These are all dex scores. Most rogue skills are dex or wisdom based. So they wouldn't even really use longswords, which are a strength weapon, because they can probably get better average damage with a rapier (or even better maximum damage.)

In short, there are a few reasons not to do this, and no significant reason TO do this. So. Why bother? Rogue isn't weak. Don't try to fix it.

EDIT: Keravath's point is exactly correct. You just killed ranged rogue.

[Keravath]

First thing, way too many "stealth weapons."
The average player should probably have 2-3, if you want to do this (this accomplishes the longsword thing you want.) But you have to ask why. The main effect is that a few characters can use a longsword for sneak attack, but why bother? at most, you get two more points of damage (4 on a crit), and then you step on fighters.


I would agree that throne weapons seem like they should get the sneak attack, but it's a power creep that really isn't useful.

Lastly, Most rogues use high stealth, slight of hand, etc. These are all dex scores. Most rogue skills are dex or wisdom based. So they wouldn't even really use longswords, which are a strength weapon, because they can probably get better average damage with a rapier (or even better maximum damage.)

In short, there are a few reasons not to do this, and no significant reason TO do this. So. Why bother? Rogue isn't weak. Don't try to fix it.

I think the only reason the OP wants to do this is for flavor reasons. I would suggest that if you have a rogue in a game that wants to be strength based and use a long sword for sneak attack then just go for it as a flavor exception rather than come up with some general rule for it. (one handed they could already use a rapier and do the same damage).

As mentioned, most rogues are dex based and would use dexterity to attack with ranged or finesse weapons for sneak attacks.

On the other hand, if you are suggesting rogues could effectively turn their list of sneak attack weapons into FINESSE weapons which they could use both for sneak attack and to attack using dexterity instead of strength that might be a different issue.

However, weapons are only typically d4, d6 or d8 damage which are all available already with finesse weapons. So, if your house rule doesn't change the damage die available, I don't really see any balance issue with a player reskinning a rapier as a long sword (as long as they don't start swinging with two hands for a d10 :) ).

[Lupine]

However, weapons are only typically d4, d6 or d8 damage which are all available already with finesse weapons. So, if your house rule doesn't change the damage die available, I don't really see any balance issue with a player reskinning a rapier as a long sword (as long as they don't start swinging with two hands for a d10 :) ).

Exactly. As flavor go for it. Similarly, the hand-axe can be reskinned as a dagger. That said, I think its a little strange that thrown weapons don't work for sneak attack.

[stoutstien]

Exactly. As flavor go for it. Similarly, the hand-axe can be reskinned as a dagger. That said, I think its a little strange that thrown weapons don't work for sneak attack.

H axe are the strongest simple weapon as far as features and adding finesse to it will push it up to martial weapons territory if it shouldn't already be there.

[Spartan_MD]

I agree that wisdom shouldn’t be the determining factor for number of weapons.

I want to makes strength based mode more viable.

Essentially I want race specific weapons to be used in sneak attacks. Elves should be able to use longswords and long bows. Dwarves should be able to use axes and hammers. Bugbears should be able to use morning stars. Future races with specific proficiency should be able to use their racially preferred weapon.

Versatile weapons should not be able to used two handed. No heavy weapons.

How would you rephrase/rework?

[Spartan_MD]

Stealth Weapons
1st-level rogue feature (enhances Sneak Attack)
You can use this feature to define your sneak attack eligible weapons, rather than using the definition in Sneak Attack
You practice your sneak attack with specially chosen weapons, which become sneak attack weapons for you. You can choose a number of weapons to be your stealth weapons equal to 5 + your Intelligence modifier (minimum of five weapons). The chosen weapons must each meet the following criteria:
• The weapon must be a simple or martial weapon and the wielded may not use the versatile property to be wielded two handed.
• You must be proficient with the weapon.
• The weapon must lack these properties: heavy, special.