Using Melodic Casting for Combat Casting prerequisite

[Hiro Quester]

If a bard with the melodic casting feat wanted to take a prestige class that required combat casting as a prerequisite, would you count melodic casting as satisfying that requirement?

Rationale: I have never played a bard that didn’t take melodic casting. Making a perform check instead of a concentration check is awesome for a bard.

And if you have that feat combat casting does absolutely nothing for you. You don’t make concentration checks to cast a spell in combat, you make perform checks instead.

Edit: Melodic casting literally is the bards combat casting feat.

[liquidformat]

Well Combat Casting is absolute trash of a feat that is worse than skill focus. However, there is no carry over between combat casting and Melodic Casting so it is a stretch to ask for it to replace combat casting. It really comes down to finding a dm that hates combat casting/ feat tax...

[Hiro Quester]

Yeah... it’s obviously a DM call.

My question is how reasonable or unreasonable the ask would be.

[Psyren]

Seems fine to me.

Personally I would just use PF bardic casting instead. You effectively get max Concentration for free, modify it with Cha instead of Con just like Perform, and you can cast while singing baseline without a feat. Plus it stacks with Combat Casting, so you can use the feat you saved on that and sidestep the issue.

[liquidformat]

it seems as reasonable of an ask as requesting Skill Focus to replace combat casting

[Troacctid]

I would just apply the bonus to the Perform check. I don't think Melodic Casting is a natural replacement for Combat Casting.

[Thurbane]

Just for comparison, here's a list I made of feats you can swap out as reqs for other feats:


Hey all,

I'm trying to make a list of feats that count as other feats for reqs - please contribute any I've missed, and I'll add them:


Combat Reflexes: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#combatReflexes) Evasive Reflexes (ToB)
Dodge: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#dodge) Desert Wind Dodge (ToB); Expeditious Dodge (RotW); Midnight Dodge (MoI)
Endurance: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#endurance) Kobold Endurance (RotD)
Power Attack: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#powerAttack) Stone Power (ToB)
Psionic Meditation: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#psionicMeditation) Instant Clarity (ToB)
Skill Focus: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#skillFocus) Aereni Focus (PGtE); Epic Skill Focus (CAd) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#epicSkillFocus)
Toughness: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#toughness) Azure Toughness (MoI)
Trample: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#trample) Valenar Trample (PGtE)
Weapon Finesse: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponFinesse) Shadow Blade (ToB)
Weapon Focus: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponFocus) Hand Crossbow Focus (DotU)

Cheers - T

[Saintheart]

Yeah... it’s obviously a DM call.

My question is how reasonable or unreasonable the ask would be.

If D&D is willing to let equivalent class features or special abilities qualify as prerequisite feats, I don't see why identical feats restricted to given classes shouldn't be treated the same.

Page 20, Masters of the Wild (3.0) held that if a character has a class feature or special ability that exactly duplicates the effects of a feat, then he or she can use that 'virtual feat' as a prerequisite for other feats, as well as prestige classes and so forth. This same rule was reprinted in the Epic Level Handbook, page 47, with some slight adjustments: if you effectively have a feat as a class feature or special ability, then you can use that virtual feat as a prerequisite for other feats. The examples they used included the monk's virtual feats Improved Unarmed Strike and Stunning Fist at first level (i.e. he gets them without having to satisfy their prerequisites).

Either way, when 3.5 came along, these rules were not specifically updated and therefore stand assuming the DM agrees with them.

[Troacctid]

Melodic Casting doesn't duplicate the effect of Combat Casting. It replaces the Concentration check with a Perform check, but it doesn't give a +4 bonus to it. It also applies to all Concentration checks made to cast a spell, where Combat Casting only applies to Concentration checks made to cast a spell defensively or while grappled or pinned. They're very different feats.