A Player with Mixed Priorities

[Expected]

Story time! Our party consists of a Paladin, Fighter, Warlock, Wizard, and Ranger. We were level 1 (only the Ranger was level 2) and were clearing out a thug's hideout (it was a gambling den) for a merchant who was robbed by them. We had a short rest between encounters and the previous encounter was challenging and didn't have time for a long rest, or else the thugs would be more prepared for us. We let the Ranger do his RP/solo scout mission (they try to have the spotlight constantly and take 3 times longer to do their turn) and when he kept stalling and not really doing anything, the Fighter and I stormed the front of the gambling den with the Wizard assisting us and began combat. The Warlock went to assist the Ranger who insisted on sneaking in the back despite it being a huge building (the Ranger has a habit of breaking from combat to search rooms or have his character eat food, etc. and then complains that we're busy making death saves *facepalm*).

After clearing out the den of about 12 minor enemies, we broke into the vault and triggered combat with 4 tough boss enemies (they hit for 7 damage on average and we realized we were outmatched). This is when the Ranger decides to start looting and planning to run off with the coin as the Fighter and I are on death's door (I had 2 HP and the Fighter had 1). He mentioned that he hadn't attacked them so he should be able to walk past without being attacked, to which the DM said they're not going to just let him take their loot. With strategic use of flanking and the Dodge action, the Fighter and I tanked the ridiculous damage and barely managed to finish the enemy off, with the help of the Warlock who was spamming Eldritch Blast and Witch Bolt (our Wizard was unconscious and I was out of healing from picking the Fighter and Warlock up). That was when the thug's reinforcements came. Luckily they saw the carnage, rolled low for morale checks, and were able to be intimidated to flee. We barely avoided a TPK and I could feel the frustration of the other players towards the Ranger's player. I have a feeling the table is plotting the demise of said Ranger.

[Teaguethebean]

Sounds like a player who needs to be talked to. If not just have the group dump the ranger on the side of the rode for his careless actions. Or if you wanna be petty you can just inform your employer that he nearly let everyone die and he may not get his pay.

[Expected]

Sounds like a player who needs to be talked to. If not just have the group dump the ranger on the side of the rode for his careless actions. Or if you wanna be petty you can just inform your employer that he nearly let everyone die and he may not get his pay.

It's tough because we love his hilarious RP (out of combat) and he's a good friend of ours, but he doesn't take criticism lightly and we want to avoid tension at the table if possible (this is the only thing I do for fun as I have a lot of responsibilities during the week and have no free time).

[Sigreid]

You dont have to kill the ranger, but it sounds like there's no reason the group would keep someone so unreliable around. I'd kick the ranger from the group and tell the player he needs a character the party can count on.

[Expected]

You dont have to kill the ranger, but it sounds like there's no reason the group would keep someone so unreliable around. I'd kick the ranger from the group and tell the player he needs a character the party can count on.

My comment was made partly in jest (though I personally consider abandoning your party for selfish gain to be no different than attacking us himself). Thinking about Quickening Hold Person and Divine Smiting him to death is amusing LOL. But I won't do that and will instead talk to him and let him know how it's affecting us.

[Gignere]

Number one rule of D&D do not split the party.

Number two rule of D&D do not split the party.

Number three rule of D&D do not talk about splitting the party.

[Expected]

Number one rule of D&D do not split the party.

Number two rule of D&D do not split the party.

Number three rule of D&D do not talk about splitting the party.

Cue the Ranger who ignores all three rules and goes to the kitchen to RP eating, all during​ combat.

[Yunru]

If the Ranger wants to go off solo, have them be ambushed.
Maybe they ran into some guards that were delayed changing shifts due to chatting with the shift they were tagging out for, or the kitchen the Ranger's eating at (if a public place) comes under unrelated attack.

[ezekielraiden]

My comment was made partly in jest (though I personally consider abandoning your party for selfish gain to be no different than attacking us himself). Thinking about Quickening Hold Person and Divine Smiting him to death is amusing LOL. But I won't do that and will instead talk to him and let him know how it's affecting us.

Then it sounds like you already know what you need to do. Try, as much as possible, to be positive. Tell your friend that you're upset with how things are going, but that you want to repair the situation, not break things more. Note how you *want* to have him there, and truly enjoy most of his roleplay stuff, but that you feel frustrated because his actions negatively affect the group and yet he seems oblivious to these problems.

Like...it's not about attacking him, it's about honestly telling him how you feel and why you're upset. If he cannot handle honest communication shared without rancor, then you don't want him in this game anyway. If he tries to pull a victim card, be clear about how deeply frustrated you are and how the group agrees that his actions are hypocritical and tedious for you all. Again, emphasize that this is not about assigning blame, but rather about being forthright when problems happen and trying to fix them rather than letting them continue to fester until they explode.

[Expected]

If the Ranger wants to go off solo, have them be ambushed.
Maybe they ran into some guards that were delayed changing shifts due to chatting with the shift they were tagging out for, or the kitchen the Ranger's eating at (if a public place) comes under unrelated attack.
That is a good idea. The reason why the Warlock went after him is to help him and had he not, the Ranger would have definitely been knocked unconscious and killed. The Warlock is a team player and doesn't want to let the Ranger make mistakes, but it just ends up enabling the behavior and preventing the Ranger from learning from their mistakes.


Then it sounds like you already know what you need to do. Try, as much as possible, to be positive. Tell your friend that you're upset with how things are going, but that you want to repair the situation, not break things more. Note how you *want* to have him there, and truly enjoy most of his roleplay stuff, but that you feel frustrated because his actions negatively affect the group and yet he seems oblivious to these problems.

Like...it's not about attacking him, it's about honestly telling him how you feel and why you're upset. If he cannot handle honest communication shared without rancor, then you don't want him in this game anyway. If he tries to pull a victim card, be clear about how deeply frustrated you are and how the group agrees that his actions are hypocritical and tedious for you all. Again, emphasize that this is not about assigning blame, but rather about being forthright when problems happen and trying to fix them rather than letting them continue to fester until they explode.
That is very​ wise advice. I will definitely sit down and talk with him.

[Yunru]

That is a good idea.

Buy a lava lamp, it more than doubles the rate of good ideas :p

[Keravath]

Are you sure that they actually want to play? It could be that they just aren't that interested and the quickest way to get everyone to play something else is if they all die off then everyone might choose a game they are actually interested in playing?

This could be accomplished by simply avoiding combat at critical times. However, it needs the DM to buy in to the plan and it sounds like your DM is willing to help keep you alive at level 1 (which is the hardest level anyway). It seems to me that eating, sneaking, looting while everyone else is dying or rolling death saves is an indication that they either don't care or are oblivious to the impact of their actions on everyone else.

In either case, the only way to address the situation is to have an open and upbeat discussion about it and perhaps discover why they are having their character behave in a way that effectively abandons the group.

[Yunru]

I also just realised that the Ranger is the only one at a higher level. If you all just started then this behaviour might be for... Plot reasons.

[Sigreid]

My comment was made partly in jest (though I personally consider abandoning your party for selfish gain to be no different than attacking us himself). Thinking about Quickening Hold Person and Divine Smiting him to death is amusing LOL. But I won't do that and will instead talk to him and let him know how it's affecting us.

I've been in gaming groups where murdering a troublesome character was not out of the question.

[Expected]

Buy a lava lamp, it more than doubles the rate of good ideas :p
My parents had one when I was growing up and I loved it--it's enthralling, like looking into a fire.


Are you sure that they actually want to play? It could be that they just aren't that interested and the quickest way to get everyone to play something else is if they all die off then everyone might choose a game they are actually interested in playing?

This could be accomplished by simply avoiding combat at critical times. However, it needs the DM to buy in to the plan and it sounds like your DM is willing to help keep you alive at level 1 (which is the hardest level anyway). It seems to me that eating, sneaking, looting while everyone else is dying or rolling death saves is an indication that they either don't care or are oblivious to the impact of their actions on everyone else.

In either case, the only way to address the situation is to have an open and upbeat discussion about it and perhaps discover why they are having their character behave in a way that effectively abandons the group.
I'm sure they want to play, but I think they prefer RP over combat and want to be the "main character." For example, they took the Inheritor background feature and derail us constantly to search for characters in their backstory.


I also just realised that the Ranger is the only one at a higher level. If you all just started then this behaviour might be for... Plot reasons.
True. I thought of that, too. My Sorcadin will outshine everyone in combat later on so I don't mind playing a backseat role when it comes to RP and exploration. I just want him to contribute. The reason why he's level 2 and we're not is we were killed because he fled. I made a post a while ago about it--I used to play a Rogue in this campaign but switched so I can be more self-sufficient.


I've been in gaming groups where murdering a troublesome character was not out of the question.
It would destroy the friendship, but be absolutely hilarious to see the look on his face should he betray us and try to run and eat auto-crit smites to the face because of Hold Person LOL.

[Keravath]

My parents had one when I was growing up and I loved it--it's enthralling, like looking into a fire.


I'm sure they want to play, but I think they prefer RP over combat and want to be the "main character." For example, they took the Inheritor background feature and derail us constantly to search for characters in their backstory.


True. I thought of that, too. My Sorcadin will outshine everyone in combat later on so I don't mind playing a backseat role when it comes to RP and exploration. I just want him to contribute. The reason why he's level 2 and we're not is we were killed because he fled. I made a post a while ago about it--I used to play a Rogue in this campaign but switched so I can be more self-sufficient.


It would destroy the friendship, but be absolutely hilarious to see the look on his face should he betray us and try to run and eat auto-crit smites to the face because of Hold Person LOL.


Ok .. WHY are you still playing with him? All your previous characters died once already and he obviously doesn't care in the least. This is the SECOND time around for the lot of you. Do you let him kill off your characters by disappearing during a fight again?

Also, consider what your characters know of this guy. Do they know that the ranger managed to kill off everyone else in their previous party too? The characters need to start asking themselves why they would ever want to adventure with someone with a reputation for "surviving" while all their team mates die.

How good a friend is this person really if they will happily leave all the other characters in the adventure to die while taking actions that hasten that end? It really sounds like the challenge here is to see how many times they can effectively kill off the entire party before they decide to do something about it.

Presumably, the player is aware that their actions are detrimental to the survival of the party (especially since it has resulted in everyone else in the party dying once already) and if they want to continue acting like that surrounded by all new characters then I think they likely have a player driven reason.

P.S. It doesn't sound as if they want to be the "main character", they want to be the "only character" and their personal challenge appears to be to see how many parties they can completely wipe out without driving the other players/characters to throw their character out of the party. Personally, if they kept up this behavior, I wouldn't be playing with them no matter how "good" a friend they might be. (Could they be trying to force someone else out of the group by making the game unpleasant for everyone ... until that person leaves?)

[mistermysterio]

What is your DM doing about the behaviors? He shouldn't be sharing any part of the experience gained from killing those enemies. He shouldn't have gained any experience when he was eating while you all fought. He may be ahead of you now, but he should get left behind if he continues these behaviors and the rest of you survive. Then, when he is in trouble, I doubt anyone will step in to save him.

[Expected]

Ok .. WHY are you still playing with him? All your previous characters died once already and he obviously doesn't care in the least. This is the SECOND time around for the lot of you. Do you let him kill off your characters by disappearing during a fight again?

Also, consider what your characters know of this guy. Do they know that the ranger managed to kill off everyone else in their previous party too? The characters need to start asking themselves why they would ever want to adventure with someone with a reputation for "surviving" while all their team mates die.

How good a friend is this person really if they will happily leave all the other characters in the adventure to die while taking actions that hasten that end? It really sounds like the challenge here is to see how many times they can effectively kill off the entire party before they decide to do something about it.

Presumably, the player is aware that their actions are detrimental to the survival of the party (especially since it has resulted in everyone else in the party dying once already) and if they want to continue acting like that surrounded by all new characters then I think they likely have a player driven reason.

P.S. It doesn't sound as if they want to be the "main character", they want to be the "only character" and their personal challenge appears to be to see how many parties they can completely wipe out without driving the other players/characters to throw their character out of the party. Personally, if they kept up this behavior, I wouldn't be playing with them no matter how "good" a friend they might be. (Could they be trying to force someone else out of the group by making the game unpleasant for everyone ... until that person leaves?)
I agree and do see the problem with continuing to play at the same table as him. For a little more information, I live in an area where finding a DND session is really difficult and I even drive 40 minutes for this one so I guess I'm just tolerating his behavior because I feel like I have no choice. We actually have two campaigns going and switch every week (e.g. campaign 1, then campaign 2, 1, then 2) and the DM has it in the same world but on different areas. I play a BM Fighter and a OoV DS Sorcadin so I am going to be able to survive once we get past later levels regardless what my idiot friend does. We will talk to him, but if it doesn't work, I'll talk to the other players and we'll agree to leave him to his own devices and just focus on helping each other. And yes, it does seem that way but thankfully the DM will punish PC's acting like fools (e.g. kleptomania, murderhoboism).


What is your DM doing about the behaviors? He shouldn't be sharing any part of the experience gained from killing those enemies. He shouldn't have gained any experience when he was eating while you all fought. He may be ahead of you now, but he should get left behind if he continues these behaviors and the rest of you survive. Then, when he is in trouble, I doubt anyone will step in to save him.
It's interesting that you mention that, because he did receive less xp than us in the last fight. We're all now level 2 and he is only 100 xp into level 2. His other character, a Bard, took a long rest against the party's wishes because he wasted his spell slots on Unseen Servant for RP purposes (he RPs her as a princess because she has the Noble background with Retainers), so we left him to keep exploring the dungeon and cleared it out before he woke up. This player even makes movement through their square during combat difficult because they are "not a willing creature." It was hilarious, but frustrating.

[mistermysterio]

I agree and do see the problem with continuing to play at the same table as him. For a little more information, I live in an area where finding a DND session is really difficult and I even drive 40 minutes for this one so I guess I'm just tolerating his behavior because I feel like I have no choice. We actually have two campaigns going and switch every week (e.g. campaign 1, then campaign 2, 1, then 2) and the DM has it in the same world but on different areas. I play a BM Fighter and a OoV DS Sorcadin so I am going to be able to survive once we get past later levels regardless what my idiot friend does. We will talk to him, but if it doesn't work, I'll talk to the other players and we'll agree to leave him to his own devices and just focus on helping each other. And yes, it does seem that way but thankfully the DM will punish PC's acting like fools (e.g. kleptomania, murderhoboism).


It's interesting that you mention that, because he did receive less xp than us in the last fight. We're all now level 2 and he is only 100 xp into level 2. His other character, a Bard, took a long rest against the party's wishes because he wasted his spell slots on Unseen Servant for RP purposes (he RPs her as a princess because she has the Noble background with Retainers), so we left him to keep exploring the dungeon and cleared it out before he woke up. This player even makes movement through their square during combat difficult because they are "not a willing creature." It was hilarious, but frustrating.

Alright, so try to reason with him... but if not, then you all focus on survival and group work and you'll soon leave him behind. He was a full level ahead and now you've all already almost caught up. Just watch out for each other super well and it should, hopefully, resolve itself when hes still level 2 and you're all 4 and decide not to help him.

*edit- AND, if he's RPing stuff that keeps resulting in leaving his party behind, then you should feel free to RP your own character's reactions. Call him out in game, if he isn't responding to reason out of game... if it starts a PvP situation, that isn't ideal... but it may solve some things. I.e. your character should question his ranger why he wasn't there helping you guys out.... you should emphasize how close some of you came to death while he was off doing who-knows-what. Your character can make in-game demands of his, with in-game consequences ("if you leave us again while our lives are on the line then don't come back").

Good luck either way!

[Expected]

Alright, so try to reason with him... but if not, then you all focus on survival and group work and you'll soon leave him behind. He was a full level ahead and now you've all already almost caught up. Just watch out for each other super well and it should, hopefully, resolve itself when hes still level 2 and you're all 4 and decide not to help him.
Thankfully, my other party members and I already have rapport built and trust each other knowing that we'll get each other up. Thank you for your suggestion. It definitely will work.

[Phhase]

Buy a lava lamp, it more than doubles the rate of good ideas :p

Mister or Missus Yunru, thank you for enhancing my signature (with your permission).

*snip?*

[Yunru]

Mister or Missus Yunru, thank you for enhancing my signature (with your permission).

*snip?*

Of course!

[HiveStriker]

Story time! Our party consists of a Paladin, Fighter, Warlock, Wizard, and Ranger. We were level 1 (only the Ranger was level 2) and were clearing out a thug's hideout (it was a gambling den) for a merchant who was robbed by them. We had a short rest between encounters and the previous encounter was challenging and didn't have time for a long rest, or else the thugs would be more prepared for us. We let the Ranger do his RP/solo scout mission (they try to have the spotlight constantly and take 3 times longer to do their turn) and when he kept stalling and not really doing anything, the Fighter and I stormed the front of the gambling den with the Wizard assisting us and began combat. The Warlock went to assist the Ranger who insisted on sneaking in the back despite it being a huge building (the Ranger has a habit of breaking from combat to search rooms or have his character eat food, etc. and then complains that we're busy making death saves *facepalm*).

After clearing out the den of about 12 minor enemies, we broke into the vault and triggered combat with 4 tough boss enemies (they hit for 7 damage on average and we realized we were outmatched). This is when the Ranger decides to start looting and planning to run off with the coin as the Fighter and I are on death's door (I had 2 HP and the Fighter had 1). He mentioned that he hadn't attacked them so he should be able to walk past without being attacked, to which the DM said they're not going to just let him take their loot. With strategic use of flanking and the Dodge action, the Fighter and I tanked the ridiculous damage and barely managed to finish the enemy off, with the help of the Warlock who was spamming Eldritch Blast and Witch Bolt (our Wizard was unconscious and I was out of healing from picking the Fighter and Warlock up). That was when the thug's reinforcements came. Luckily they saw the carnage, rolled low for morale checks, and were able to be intimidated to flee. We barely avoided a TPK and I could feel the frustration of the other players towards the Ranger's player. I have a feeling the table is plotting the demise of said Ranger.
Was is something coherent with the character's perceived persona? If so, I'll be harsh but I'd say its on you as a group, because you should have known his motivation was not strong enough to risk his life currently, whatever reason behind.

If it was not (like he was extremely tied to another PC or he's supposedly Loyal Good), then a kind and polite out of game discussion should be held.

[JakOfAllTirades]

No need to kill the Ranger. Just have the Warlock stop enabling him. In fact, the Warlock should be using Hex to disadvantage all his Dexterity checks so he stops sneaking off and causing trouble. No attack roll, no saving throw, no problem. Just bamf they're hexed. And if the Ranger gets reduced to 0hp, the Warlock can still hex another target as a bonus action. Everybody wins! :biggrin:

[Keravath]

It's interesting that you mention that, because he did receive less xp than us in the last fight. We're all now level 2 and he is only 100 xp into level 2. His other character, a Bard, took a long rest against the party's wishes because he wasted his spell slots on Unseen Servant for RP purposes (he RPs her as a princess because she has the Noble background with Retainers), so we left him to keep exploring the dungeon and cleared it out before he woke up. This player even makes movement through their square during combat difficult because they are "not a willing creature." It was hilarious, but frustrating.

I'm glad that the DM acknowledges the issue and "rewards" it.

However, I don't understand the Unseen Servant thing ... there are a couple of issues.

1) Unseen Servant is a ritual. Bards have ritual casting. He can cast it as often as he likes as a ritual without using spell slots. It only takes 10 minutes+6 seconds.

2) Moving through an ally's square is difficult terrain. Moving through a square with an unwilling creature isn't possible. So he is making movement more difficult for everyone by not letting folks pass through their square.

Anyway, I am happy that I don't have to deal with them :)

Edit: removed my original point 1 ... I need to learn to read better :)

[Expected]

I'm glad that the DM acknowledges the issue and "rewards" it.

However, I don't understand the Unseen Servant thing ... there are a couple of issues.

1) Unseen Servant is a ritual. Bards have ritual casting. He can cast it as often as he likes as a ritual without using spell slots. It only takes 10 minutes+6 seconds.

2) Moving through an ally's square is difficult terrain. Moving through a square with an unwilling creature isn't possible. So he is making movement more difficult for everyone by not letting folks pass through their square.

Anyway, I am happy that I don't have to deal with them :)

Edit: removed my original point 1 ... I need to learn to read better :)
Yes, he can cast Unseen Servant as a ritual, but he doesn't. He RPs his character as a spoiled, impatient princess and doesn't want to wait 10 minutes for the ritual.

Exactly. He will state he is unwilling and not let allies move through his square. Thankfully, he doesn't help much anyway and is never anywhere near combat so it hasn't really been an issue.

[sithlordnergal]

Yes, he can cast Unseen Servant as a ritual, but he doesn't. He RPs his character as a spoiled, impatient princess and doesn't want to wait 10 minutes for the ritual.

Exactly. He will state he is unwilling and not let allies move through his square. Thankfully, he doesn't help much anyway and is never anywhere near combat so it hasn't really been an issue.

One has to wonder why such a princess is out adventuring...

[Yunru]

One has to wonder why such a princess is out adventuring...

Well if you were the parents, would you want them in the house? :p

[Aett_Thorn]

Well if you were the parents, would you want them in the house? :p

I know, hunny, but if we let her go, maybe she I’ve captured by a dragon. You KNOW how much she’s always wanted to be captured by a dragon. If we don’t let her go, we’ll really never hear the end of it.

[KorvinStarmast]

Buy a lava lamp, it more than doubles the rate of good ideas :p
Heh, there's a successful wisdom check. :smallcool:

No need to kill the Ranger. Just have the Warlock stop enabling him. In fact, the Warlock should be using Hex to disadvantage all his Dexterity checks so he stops sneaking off and causing trouble. No attack roll, no saving throw, no problem. Just bamf they're hexed. And if the Ranger gets reduced to 0hp, the Warlock can still hex another target as a bonus action. Everybody wins! :biggrin: That's sneaky, and I love it! :smallcool:

[Expected]

Well if you were the parents, would you want them in the house? :p
That is EXACTLY why she is adventuring. She was kidnapped and no one came to rescue her. At this point, we're speculating that her parents paid someone to kidnap her, if you know what I mean.

[JakOfAllTirades]

That is EXACTLY why she is adventuring. She was kidnapped and no one came to rescue her. At this point, we're speculating that her parents paid someone to kidnap her, if you know what I mean.

Somewhere, there's an adventuring company wondering where they went wrong....

[ThatoneGuy84]

I play with a tight knit group of friends.
we have had players that do this exact thing. Loot while we fight, wander off during combat to do "thier own thing".

We have executed a few different characters of a few different players, running off (unless you are doing so to save yourself from a TPK or to get help, or cause your the last man standing and want to try to ranged fight ect ect) from the "team" is treason. Goodbye, write a new charactor ect.

Do some of them get mad? Sometimes. Do they bitch? Sometimes. Do they show up for the next game session? Yes, usually with a more reasonable charactor in toe.

We tend to play "long campaigns".
Recently we had to put down our barbarian that was with the party from level 1-13. He kept going rouge over and over and over, then got pushy with our paladin, thought the team would back him, he was wrong. Now hes playing a warlock.