Simpler swordsage

[stewstew5]

So I'm planning on multiclassing into swordsage and I'm just re-reading and re-reading the book and it's still a bit confusing. Are there any simpler ways of putting it or organizing the maneuvers for interpretation? (I'm mostly having an issue with maneuvers, I cant consider all of them at once yknow).

Here's what I understand so far
As of level one
You know 6 maneuvers, and can meditate to prepare 4
You can preform a prepared maneuver once per combat, and use an action to refresh this
You know one maneuver that isn't prepared that basically has unlimited uses

for posterity:

I did a little more digging, and found this: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?259783-3-5-Swordsage-Handbook-This-one-ll-walk-the-whole-Way-WIP-PEACH

[Kelb_Panthera]

That last is called a stance but otherwise you've got it. Where's the problem?

[stewstew5]

That last is called a stance but otherwise you've got it. Where's the problem?

I was just a little confused overall (especially with the last one, I thought all maneuvers were viable as stances and didn't realize they were separate things, so,,, yea)

[MisterKaws]

They're listed as attacks, boosts and stances, and attacks/boosts progress parallel to stances. If you read the stances' descriptions, you'll notice all of them give you a feat-like ability for as long as you keep up the stance, and you can absolutely keep it forever.

WotC also made a printable set of maneuver cards (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd%2Fwe%2F20061225a) for ease of use.

Also, some clarification, but you need to spend a full round to renew a maneuver as a Swordsage. They're supposed to be more burst-focused as opposed to the Warblade's less maneuvers with a quicker reload, or the Crusader's very few maneuvers with automatic free reloads.

[Crake]

They're listed as attacks, boosts and stances, and attacks/boosts progress parallel to stances. If you read the stances' descriptions, you'll notice all of them give you a feat-like ability for as long as you keep up the stance, and you can absolutely keep it forever.

WotC also made a printable set of maneuver cards (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd%2Fwe%2F20061225a) for ease of use.

Also, some clarification, but you need to spend a full round to renew a maneuver as a Swordsage. They're supposed to be more burst-focused as opposed to the Warblade's less maneuvers with a quicker reload, or the Crusader's very few maneuvers with automatic free reloads.

Worth noting the Adaptive Style feat is practically required for swordsage. Being able to renew ALL your maneuvers for the same action cost is such a huge upgrade, plus you can re-pick your prepared maneuvers to boot, letting you... well, adapt :smalltongue:

[Kelb_Panthera]

Worth noting the Adaptive Style feat is practically required for swordsage. Being able to renew ALL your maneuvers for the same action cost is such a huge upgrade, plus you can re-pick your prepared maneuvers to boot, letting you... well, adapt :smalltongue:

I see this said pretty regularly but I think it's a bit overstated unless you're picking up a -lot- of boosts and counters.

A typical combat will last about 5 rounds, give or take. By 5th level you can make a strike every round and still have a boost or counter leftover. When you then consider the odds of a refresh actually being worth the full round, whether you get one maneuver or all of them back, compared to just whacking the thing with a full attack, the feat looses a -lot- of luster on a feat starved class like a swordsage.

Shoots to absolute gold if you have levels in more than one initiator class though.

[stewstew5]

Worth noting the Adaptive Style feat is practically required for swordsage. Being able to renew ALL your maneuvers for the same action cost is such a huge upgrade, plus you can re-pick your prepared maneuvers to boot, letting you... well, adapt :smalltongue:

I'm also a touched confused on how that works... Does it also refresh your uses of the maneuvers for the combat, even if you pick the same ones?

[PhantasyPen]

I'm also a touched confused on how that works... Does it also refresh your uses of the maneuvers for the combat, even if you pick the same ones?

Yes. What Adaptive Style does for a Swordsage is when you refresh your maneuvers, you're also allowed to change some out for ones you didn't prepare instead. Say you have Burning Blade (a +fire damage boost) prepared, but you're suddenly fighting a fire elemental and you didn't expect it ahead of time. With Adaptive Style, you can spend your full-round action to change out any +fire maneuvers you know in this scenario for something that has a different effect, such as Shadow Blade Technique, which has the potential of dealing cold damage.

[Sir Brett Nortj]

Yes. What Adaptive Style does for a Swordsage is when you refresh your maneuvers, you're also allowed to change some out for ones you didn't prepare instead. Say you have Burning Blade (a +fire damage boost) prepared, but you're suddenly fighting a fire elemental and you didn't expect it ahead of time. With Adaptive Style, you can spend your full-round action to change out any +fire maneuvers you know in this scenario for something that has a different effect, such as Shadow Blade Technique, which has the potential of dealing cold damage.

You know, spitting at a fire elemental will hurt them... aim for the eyes!

[rrwoods]

I'm also a touched confused on how that works... Does it also refresh your uses of the maneuvers for the combat, even if you pick the same ones?
“Most” tables read it this way, even if the letter isn’t explicit. Without this reading, swordsage has a recovery mechanism that’s essentially useless. It doesn’t kill the class, but it puts a ton of pressure on the player to manage their maneuvers very meticulously, especially if they have a lot of swift/immediate action maneuvers.