Mass Suggestion, how awesome is this going to be?

[MarkVIIIMarc]

How does this one play for you all?

What is the best way to use it in game where it doesn't "derail" the plot from the DM's point of view? I worry if I do something like have 10 of 12 attacking giants fail their Wisdom saves and tell the rest to go fishing and come tomorrow back after they are well fed so we can kill a couple then flee or pick off isolated "fisher giants"

I've used Suggestion once and while it solved the immediate problem, it seemed to kinda upset the flow the DM had. I'm up for any usage tips.


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You suggest a course of activity (limited to a sentence or two) and magically influence up to twelve creatures of your choice that you can see within range and that can hear and understand you. Creatures that can't be Charmed are immune to this effect. The Suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the course of action sound reasonable. Asking the creature to stab itself, throw itself onto a spear, immolate itself, or do some other obviously harmful act automatically negates the effect of the spell.

Each target must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, it pursues the course of action you described to the best of its ability. The suggested course of action can continue for the entire Duration. If the suggested activity can be completed in a shorter time, the spell ends when the subject finishes what it was asked to do.

You can also specify Conditions that will trigger a Special activity during the Duration. For example, you might suggest that a group of soldiers give all their money to the first Beggar they meet. If the condition isn't met before the spell ends, the activity isn't performed.

If you or any of your companions damage a creature affected by this spell, the spell ends for that creature.

At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a 7th-level spell slot, the Duration is 10 days. When you use an 8th-level spell slot, the Duration is 30 days. When you use a 9th-level spell slot, the Duration is a year and a day.

[TheUser]

Think about how you can use this power for good! Imagine having the ability to override a person's self-loathing, apprehensions or bad habits with the help of magic.

If you make your use of the spell as wholesome as possible will probably make your DM at the very least smile.

"Go home and show the people you love how much they mean to you."

"Cook a nice meal for your family to let them know you care."

"Meditate on how you can really improve your life in the short term and the long term; make a comprehensive plan of what your goals are in the next 5-10 years and how you will achieve them."


Real wholesome ****.

The seventh and eigth level version gives you some real power to shape a person's life.

"Starting right now, spend an hour reading a book each day to expand your wealth of knowledge."

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Man, it does have some options for good now that you mention it. With Mass Suggestion I might be able to turn half a cult to good for a week.

What are some good suggestions?

Would, "take what you've stolen to the orphange and give it to the head mistress" be decent?

"Reconsider your actions and do what helps others" too vague or open to mis interpretations?

[Guy Lombard-O]

Well, I've only ever had the spell as a high level Bard. So I assumed that it was mainly for getting everyone to join in a song and dance number, like in a musical where the protagonist says something vital to the plot and then suddenly everybody starts dancing all together.

I couldn't read the look on my DM's face, but I think that it didn't derail his plans too much...?

[TheUser]

Man, it does have some options for good now that you mention it. With Mass Suggestion I might be able to turn half a cult to good for a week.

What are some good suggestions?

Would, "take what you've stolen to the orphange and give it to the head mistress" be decent?

"Reconsider your actions and do what helps others" too vague or open to mis interpretations?

Something universally applicable no matter the circumstance.

Setting kings guards off to form and rally a workers union is one I just thought of with extremely strong economic repercussions for any ruler (provided unionizing isn't punishable by death).

"All of you will form a theatre troupe and begin immediately writing and developing a play; use the profits from your performances to help the needy."

[nickl_2000]

Well, I've only ever had the spell as a high level Bard. So I assumed that it was mainly for getting everyone to join in a song and dance number, like in a musical where the protagonist says something vital to the plot and then suddenly everybody starts dancing all together.

I couldn't read the look on my DM's face, but I think that it didn't derail his plans too much...?

Now I'm imagining all the zombie minions you are fighting joining in on a thriller style dance video (yes, yes, it may not actually work, but it would be awesome).


As for the OP, Mass Suggestion does completely derail an encounter for the DM. Honestly, that is the complete point of the spell, there isn't much way around it other than giving you DM proper warning that you have the spell and plan on using it. Although remember that the DM always has the fall back of whether the suggestion seems reasonable or not, so a DM can shut down something to outlandish.

[Chronos]

Yes, Mass Suggestion disrupts DM plans. That's what high-level spells do. And that's why you get so few of them per day.

It wouldn't be much of a game if you couldn't disrupt the DM's plans at all.

[Keravath]

Yep, I agree with Chronos. The entire point and purpose of high level spells is to solve the problems the DM sets out for you. If the DM isn't fully aware of the abilities of the characters in the adventure then the problem is not the players. The problem is the DM. The DM has to plan encounters and consider the events of the world and likely player responses including spells like mass suggestion.

So, in the context of a player using Mass Suggestion to deal with a situation established by the DM ... no, you aren't derailing/cheating/doing anything wrong by using the resources you have available. If the DM feels that way, it is their fault for setting the encounter not the players for using their available resources.

In your example of giants, the first batch might wander off, but the second group that shows up and wonders why the others are going off fishing instead of dealing with the interlopers will be pretty angry with the interlopers.

From a DM perspective: this is part of the encounter design, if the player uses Mass Suggestion effectively to neutralize the first group of giants but the DM really wants a giant encounter then a second group (of more informed giants possibly with a wizard) will be waiting in the wings to ask what happened and will investigate when their friends reveal their reasoning about going fishing. Of course if the first combat occurs these additional giants could be either far enough away not to hear or could simply have enough confidence in their friends dealing with some weak interlopers that they don't come to assist.

Good encounter design includes several logical chains of events that may or may not occur depending on how the player and NPC actions happen. When you are running your own stuff, you only need a few notes on allies in the area and how they will likely respond to various events.

So, no, it should feel great for the player to effectively use Mass Suggestion but for a good DM you will never be derailing the plot by using your resources.