Fast Healing <Con modifier>

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Too strong as a capstone for a martial class with a d6 hit die or is it too weak?

[BardicDuelist]

You might want to stick this in homebrew, unless you found this as a specific property or somthing.

I would say it is too strong, although I don't know any martial classes which have a d6 HD.

[Justyn]

At level 20? No, that's not all that overpowering for level 20. Pretty powerful, but not overpowering. If it is unmodified Constitution than that is rather balanced, in my oppinion.

I mean, at level 20 a wizard can literaly just say "I Wish you died." And you do.

[BardicDuelist]

Yes, but when you look at CR 20 Creatures, none of them have anywhere near fast healing 12 (18 Starting + 5 Ability Increases +5 Inherent Bonuses + 6 Item= 34 Con). Generally, PCs should have less than what a CR equivalant monster does, because they will benefit from Fast Healing more.

[Frosty]

Doesn't the Terrasque have Fast Heaing 40 or something?

[Arbitrarity]

Doesn't the Terrasque have Fast Heaing 40 or something?

Regeneration 40 which is unpenetrable, which is so much better that it is hard to describe.

Hmm... there are some potential abuses with fast healing in a PC. The one that comes to mind is the Shadow Sun Ninja's health transferring capacity.

[BardicDuelist]

Doesn't the Terrasque have Fast Heaing 40 or something?

Forgot about the big T, but I am still wary of giving the PCs a high Fast Healing.

If you were to make it somthing that they could not do in combat, it could be good.

[Shisumo]

Fast Healing 5 is a feat with no prereqs.

But it's only for one minute/day.

I think the permausage is the issue, not the amount.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Is it a problem in a fight, or for determining resources used per day?

[Quietus]

Yes, but when you look at CR 20 Creatures, none of them have anywhere near fast healing 12 (18 Starting + 5 Ability Increases +5 Inherent Bonuses + 6 Item= 34 Con). Generally, PCs should have less than what a CR equivalant monster does, because they will benefit from Fast Healing more.

So now the 'standard' highly-optimized uber-combatant not only has an 18 starting strength, but 18 starting con as well? Plus putting ALL of their ability increases into BOTH Str and Con? And +5 inherent to both on top of that?


I think it's more reasonable to consider closer to a 14 base, possibly 16, with +6 from an item and +4 inherent - and that's pushing things. Assuming the 16 base, that's 26, or a +8 bonus. Let's be honest, here, even fast healing 12 isn't going to keep you alive in barley-sub-epic combat. The more reasonable guesstimate of 8 will be even less impressive.

[Xefas]

I'd say it's fine as a lvl 20 capstone, although it'd help if we could see what the class itself is and what other abilities it has.

The main thing is that I've never seen someone take a single base class to lvl 20 before if they could avoid it. To get this capstone they couldn't dip into anything else, and they could never take any prestige classes (so, for instance, they could never take that RacesofStone class that gives CON to AC). That, and the fact that very few games that don't already start at the highest levels will even make it to 20 are, in my opinion, two things that weigh in favor of it being balanced.

But, when you say "martial" do you mean like a melee guy, like a barbarian? Or do you mean a Tome of Battle martial guy, like a Warblade?

[shadowdemon_lord]

I've always considered the true power of fast healing is that after a combat is over, you have to expend absolutely no resources getting patched up, then again by high levels, wands of CLW are so cheap it might not matter anyway. Fast healing is a powerful ability, but as a capstone, (especially for a martial class that has a d6 HD and isn't a gish) sure why not? Also, when talking about "creatures with a CR of 20, I don't think the big T. should count. He's just to utterly ridicoulous.

[Icewalker]

Wait, does the tarrasque actually have a CR of 20? I thought it was WAY higher? Because if it is higher, why was it even brought up :smallconfused:


Sounds like it could be alright. Seems like it might work better as the capstone of a PrC, so they could get it at like a 10 level PrC, but it'd have to balance with the other abilities to make sure the class isn't overpowered.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

@Xefas: I'm actually leeching input from the forum in this thread so as to not derail the one I recently got started on monks. Both are connected to the noble cause of fixing the monk. The concept I have in mind gives the class serious MVAD, or in other words, the ability to be built using any combination of attributes because every attribute conspires to improve the player's general effectiveness in combat. Bear with me, this is still very much in Beta.

One of the most drastic changes is the attribute focus system. At level 1, 4, and every 4 levels thereafter the monk chooses an attribute to focus on. At 1st, 4th, and every 4 thereafter you gain an attribute point in whichever attributes you've chosen to focus on, even the ones selected for the levels in which you gain the point. These points are gained in addition to the normal +1/4 levels.

ex. So at lvl 1 you choose Con, and at 4 you choose Str. This would mean that you get +2 to Con, +1 to Str, and +1 in general at level 4. If you choose Int at level 8, your next set would look like +2 Con, +2 Str, +1 Int, and +1 in general. This pattern persists until there are a grand total of +5, +5, +4, +3, +2, +1, and +5 in general points spread throughout the character.

In addition, one advances in tiers with the attribute focus in 4 level increments. Each tier grants an ability that is based upon the related attribute modifier, up to your capstone ability, which is the tier 6 of the focus chosen at level 1.

ex. So at lvl 1 you have tier 1 Con. At level 4 you have tier 2 Con and tier 1 Str, and at level 8 you have tier 3 Con, tier 2 Str, and tier 1 Int. It eventually ends with a pattern of 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

There's a lot more that is going into the build, with 7 schools of ToBesque Disciplines that are based on real world martial arts and martial principles. The least complicated of which is a general style that is not affected by attributes, and a style apiece based upon the 6 attributes. It's been a work months in the making, with some of my best input coming from these forums. (Most of which has come from observing each generation of monk complaint/defense threads that have cropped up.)

This is by no means a simple patch job, it effectively should make the monk the Wizard of melee classes. Very much an advanced player's class.

[skywalker]

Yah, fast healing is all about the post-battle patching up. It's correct, even fast healing 12 won't help you much in combat at level 20.

I love this idea. Fast healing is awesome.

[TheOOB]

giving heal once a day as a spell-like ability wouldn't be overpowered, and that heals a lot more all at once.

Fast healing, like DR, doesn't scale terribly well at high levels unless it's at an absudly high amount.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

The trick is trying to grant abilities that are based on the attribute that grants it. Heal once a day has almost nothing to do with Con.

[SpikeFightwicky]

How about giving a high fast healing ability, but capping it off like the Dragon Shaman's aura? Like say, fast healing 20 until you reach 1/2 or 3/4 of your total HP.

[Person_Man]

With Combat Focus, Combat Stability, and Combat Vigor (all PHBII) you can get +4 to your Will Save, +8 to resist any Trip/Bull Rush/etc, and Fast Healing 4 by 9th level. However, they have the Combat Focus limitations, which means that it only happens during combat, after you've hit someone, for up to 10ish rounds.

So reasonable Fast Healing is not unattainable by mid levels. But anything that's based on a modifier is open to abuse. So I'd just make the capstone ability Fast Healing 5 as an Extraordinary ability that's always on, and I'd make it synergize with the rest of the class features (d12 hit dice, Con based abilities, Die Hard as a bonus feat, moderate damage reduction, etc).

[Frosty]

Healing out of combat is no problem. An infinite <object> of CLW at caster level 1 is only 2000 gold, and doesn't even require UMD to use. Our levels 7 to 8 party just got one. And it's necessary too, because sometimes we get like 7 or 8 encounters in a row without chance to rest.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

So... maybe something like Fast Healing <Conx2> under half health instead then?