Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

[LeSwordfish]

Hello. This is the second thread for our discussions of Age of Sigmar - the game, the rules, the background, and related games like Underworlds and War Cry.

Last thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?493979-Age-of-Sigmar-Points-and-Handbooks), we were discussing Khorne: what should a new Khorne player buy? How can I make my tournament list better? And is naming the thread after a cheap joke about their magic system allowed, or a gross abuse of "first to post the new thread" power?

[Requizen]

Hello. This is the second thread for our discussions of Age of Sigmar - the game, the rules, the background, and related games like Underworlds and War Cry.

Last thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?493979-Age-of-Sigmar-Points-and-Handbooks), we were discussing Khorne: what should a new Khorne player buy? How can I make my tournament list better? And is naming the thread after a cheap joke about their magic system allowed, or a gross abuse of "first to post the new thread" power?

On the Khorne stuff - I think you can't go wrong with buying at least one Bloodthirster. An Insensate Rage Bloodthirster or two is basically always welcome in a good Khorne list.

And yes, at least 2 Priests.

[LeSwordfish]

The only balancing factors on Khorne Blood-Prayers as compared to magic is:

They're on average a little harder to cast (4+ on d6 is about the same as 7+ on 2d6, right?)
There's only one thing that makes them better (the skull altar)
You can take mortal wounds if you mess them up.
I don't think any of the Endless Prayers are much good.



That's not much, huh? Yeah, they're pretty absurd, and remember a Slaughterpriest can chant more than one per turn. A Gore Pilgrims batallion is the core of all my Khorne lists because it contains three things you want anyway (two priests and a bloodsecrator) and the cost for the battalion is pretty cheap.

[PraetorDragoon]

It might be useful to include the core rules link in the main post.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/AoS_Rules-ENG.pdf

Also a list of all the current factions might be nice?

Also, we get Bonereaper and Mawtribes FAQ/Errata.

Bonereapers
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/8461e683.pdf
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/6fabd58f.pdf

Mawtribes
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/352ed9d0.pdf
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/4b3813b3.pdf

No blatant nerfs to Petrifex Elite. How interesting.

[druid91]

The only balancing factors on Khorne Blood-Prayers as compared to magic is:

They're on average a little harder to cast (4+ on d6 is about the same as 7+ on 2d6, right?)
There's only one thing that makes them better (the skull altar)
You can take mortal wounds if you mess them up.
I don't think any of the Endless Prayers are much good.



That's not much, huh? Yeah, they're pretty absurd, and remember a Slaughterpriest can chant more than one per turn. A Gore Pilgrims batallion is the core of all my Khorne lists because it contains three things you want anyway (two priests and a bloodsecrator) and the cost for the battalion is pretty cheap.

Eh, depends on the army, but the Endless prayers are pretty darn ridiculous. Combined with all the dispels that Khorne gets, the Hexgorger skulls basically shut down any spellcasting while also setting up a potential mindwipe/d6 damage should you trigger it's trap card and the other two do solid damage and can't be controlled by an opponent, while also taking up space which gives you control over the board. The Reroll from the Skull Altar definitely mitigates the danger from the prayers a LOT and allows the priests to hide behind it in order to avoid being sniped and that the Endless Judgements get +1 per priest to stay on the board, and these things are almost never leaving.

Like the Wrathful Axe alone can do d3 + d6 damage to stuff, while also wrecking your to hit rolls and boxing you in. And it will just do that each and every turn for the whole game unless your opponent rolls a 1. That's a potential unit wipe a turn if it can find something to hit, which given it's movement it probably will.

And that's just the endless ones. You also get the fact that on a 4+ that they can reroll, they can just nuke endless spells off the board, or do D6 mortal wounds to things with a fair bit of range, that they don't even have to be able to see.

[Artanis]

They're on average a little harder to cast (4+ on d6 is about the same as 7+ on 2d6, right?)

Statistically, "7+ on 2d6" is exactly halfway between "3+ on 1d6" and "4+ on 1d6". So the "4+ on 1d6" would be slightly harder.

[LeSwordfish]

Statistically, "7+ on 2d6" is exactly halfway between "3+ on 1d6" and "4+ on 1d6". So the "4+ on 1d6" would be slightly harder.

Fair enough - given that most spells are casting values of 7 or below, Khorne prayers are at the harder end.

[PraetorDragoon]

Some info on Mortal Realms.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/20/enter-the-mortal-realms-in-2020/

I wonder how many people will get that first issue for just the chainrasps.

[9mm]

well finally finished the Bone Tithe Nexus


https://i.postimg.cc/6pfXv8FL/image.png


On to Feast of Bones.

[PraetorDragoon]

well finally finished the Bone Tithe Nexus


https://i.postimg.cc/6pfXv8FL/image.png


On to Feast of Bones.

That thing is indeed massive!

[Ichneumon]

I'd like some advise. I've been thinking about getting into Age of Sigmar. I am more about the painting and the lore (books) and have been enjoying that immensely, but I would like to dip by toes in the actual game also. I would like some advise on what armies are good to start with and what playstyles they are good at.

I am not a competitive person, so most likely I'll only take part in very casual and beginner tournaments and games at my local game store. Knowing what type of games I usually like, I think I'd like an army with relative few and relatively big creatures, able to take a hit. I know that the new Ossiarch army is a bit like that, but I really dislike painting skeleton-like creatures (have done so a lot of times already). Any advise on what other armies would fit such a playstyle? Visually I really like the Seraphon and the the Cities of Sigmar models.

[9mm]

I'd like some advise. I've been thinking about getting into Age of Sigmar. I am more about the painting and the lore (books) and have been enjoying that immensely, but I would like to dip by toes in the actual game also. I would like some advise on what armies are good to start with and what playstyles they are good at.

I am not a competitive person, so most likely I'll only take part in very casual and beginner tournaments and games at my local game store. Knowing what type of games I usually like, I think I'd like an army with relative few and relatively big creatures, able to take a hit. I know that the new Ossiarch army is a bit like that, but I really dislike painting skeleton-like creatures (have done so a lot of times already). Any advise on what other armies would fit such a playstyle? Visually I really like the Seraphon and the the Cities of Sigmar models.

Seraphon are really good but require practice, repetition and more skinks than you can shake a stick at.

Cities of Sigmar are REALLY good right now.

If what you really want to do is Monster mash, your main options are Maw Tribes with a heavy investment in the Beast Claw Raiders or Flesh Eater Court Grislegore. Of the two Gristlegore is better. Grab yourself 2 start collecting and use the flayer bits to convert one of the ghoul kings on foot for an archregent will get you a 1500pt army. pick up another terrorgiest and 2 box of ghouls to get to 2K.


Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Gristlegore

Leaders
Abhorrant Archregent (240)
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (420)

Battleline
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
Royal Terrorgheist (300)

Units
6 x Crypt Horrors (300)

Total: 1460 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 79

[LeSwordfish]

I'd be tempted to hold off, if Seraphon is one of the things you're into - they're rumored to get a new book sometime soon, and I'd be surprised if that didn't allow for some way to run a Monster Mash list.

[9mm]

I'd be tempted to hold off, if Seraphon is one of the things you're into - they're rumored to get a new book sometime soon, and I'd be surprised if that didn't allow for some way to run a Monster Mash list.

honestly the typical list is already a monster mash list thanks to thunder quake/triple engine lists. However it relies on skink summoning to truly control the board.

[PraetorDragoon]

You can always use min-sized skinks as compulsionary battlelines in order to monster mash. Its the classic way.

Cities is really flexibile in what you can achieve with it, and has decent internal balance (some stinkers notwhistanding) in that you can run whatever you like and still do decent. I do recommend to specialize a bit in a theme though.

Ironjaws and Fyreslayers are other armies that have some big strong monsters and have troops that can take hits. (And dish out)

[Ichneumon]

Thanks for the suggestions and advise. I think I might go for the Cities route. But I'll think it over. :smallsmile:

[PraetorDragoon]

Thanks for the suggestions and advise. I think I might go for the Cities route. But I'll think it over. :smallsmile:

Don't forget to keep in mind which minis you like. Points and rules change more than the minis.

[Destro_Yersul]

Don't I know it. I've got a pile of old Skaven which are perfectly viable in AoS, but the actual rules for them are more or less completely different.

[PraetorDragoon]

Don't I know it. I've got a pile of old Skaven which are perfectly viable in AoS, but the actual rules for them are more or less completely different.

Exactly. same minis, differnt rules through 4 editions or so. :smallbiggrin:

[PraetorDragoon]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/12/01/coming-soon-chaos-cults-ogre-teams-war-in-rohan-and-more/

Slaves to Darkness preorders next week, including double-sized boxes for the warcry warbands.

[Squark]

Speaking of Warcry, I thought I'd share my thoughts now that my local league is wrapping up (I have my final game in about an hour and a half).

1) The game is fast. Activations are very swift, and the attack system is very quick. Most matches will also end before turn 5. It's far faster than Kill Team is, for point of comparison.

2) The Initiative system is interesting, and the movement system is great. I was quite pleased when I figured out how a model could wall jump.

3) While I'm not a chaos fan personally, I can't deny the models are beautiful

That being said, I have noticed two pretty big issues

1) Critical hits can make the game very luck based. On average, my Hurricane Crossbow Raptor will only do 9 damage from a double volley at a Toughness 4 enemy who is out in the open (or a Toughness 3 enemy who is obscured). In practice, I've seen those guys take out leaders with 15 wounds in a single activation. Crypt Flayers are another big offender. Which leads me into my other complaint...

2) The transplants from Age of Sigmar feel a bit overpowered. Or maybe it's just the Vanguard Stormcast and Flesheater Courts, since I don't think the Legions of Nagash player has had the runaway success our Flesheaters players and I have. But when the Stormcast are some of the most durable models in the game and brought guns magic crossbows to a knife fight, it feels like I'm playing a different game. Hypermobile Flyers like the Crypt Flayer and Aetherwing are also something the game doesn't really account for. While the Aetherwing can't really fight, it doesn't really need to when it's less than 5% of your total points and can provide you with strategic buffs. And they're just tough enough they can tie down a critical unit at the wrong moment, and with 24" of flying movement, they will get there. Crypt Flayers, meanwhile... 30 HP, a 10" Move, and 4 powerful attacks. Ew. And the leader version is worse!

[Requizen]

Speaking of Warcry, I thought I'd share my thoughts now that my local league is wrapping up (I have my final game in about an hour and a half).

1) The game is fast. Activations are very swift, and the attack system is very quick. Most matches will also end before turn 5. It's far faster than Kill Team is, for point of comparison.

2) The Initiative system is interesting, and the movement system is great. I was quite pleased when I figured out how a model could wall jump.

3) While I'm not a chaos fan personally, I can't deny the models are beautiful

That being said, I have noticed two pretty big issues

1) Critical hits can make the game very luck based. On average, my Hurricane Crossbow Raptor will only do 9 damage from a double volley at a Toughness 4 enemy who is out in the open (or a Toughness 3 enemy who is obscured). In practice, I've seen those guys take out leaders with 15 wounds in a single activation. Crypt Flayers are another big offender. Which leads me into my other complaint...

2) The transplants from Age of Sigmar feel a bit overpowered. Or maybe it's just the Vanguard Stormcast and Flesheater Courts, since I don't think the Legions of Nagash player has had the runaway success our Flesheaters players and I have. But when the Stormcast are some of the most durable models in the game and brought guns magic crossbows to a knife fight, it feels like I'm playing a different game. Hypermobile Flyers like the Crypt Flayer and Aetherwing are also something the game doesn't really account for. While the Aetherwing can't really fight, it doesn't really need to when it's less than 5% of your total points and can provide you with strategic buffs. And they're just tough enough they can tie down a critical unit at the wrong moment, and with 24" of flying movement, they will get there. Crypt Flayers, meanwhile... 30 HP, a 10" Move, and 4 powerful attacks. Ew. And the leader version is worse!
#1 I think is intended. They want the game to feel very swingy and people to gamble on big hits, foe better or worse.

#2 is definitely an issue. Hoping that the Tome of Champions helps balance things a bit.

My main issue with Warcry is lack of depth. Without a lot of options and most units just being variations on the same base unit, it's pretty easy to pick out the best and worst units, and optimized lists can be figured out within a couple models of one another. Abilities should be the thing that skews your decisions, but they mainly can be lumped into good and bad and, surprise surprise, the good units stat and point wise generally have good abilities too.

Games will vary greatly with dice and the random mission/twist system, but mechanically most factions and builds feel the same outside a couple tricks. It's very fun and I play it a lot, but it's a relatively flat game that wouldn't be as fun if I didn't have Underworlds and AoS to fill my list-building addiction.

[Squark]

#1 I think is intended. They want the game to feel very swingy and people to gamble on big hits, foe better or worse.

#2 is definitely an issue. Hoping that the Tome of Champions helps balance things a bit.

I don't think Point adjustments are the answer. Or at least, not the complete answer. Stormcast are just not playing the same game, and that's a problem. Warcry just doesn't feel like a ranged game. As for flying... I think at the very least a rule locking treasure bearing models to 6" or less move characteristic and no flying is essential, because fast flying models just break such missions in half. If there's only one treasure token, a Crypt Flayer that wins initiative can just grab it and play keep away, and no non-flying model can catch them unless you've got a serious lack of LoS blockers.

[Requizen]

I don't think Point adjustments are the answer. Or at least, not the complete answer. Stormcast are just not playing the same game, and that's a problem. Warcry just doesn't feel like a ranged game. As for flying... I think at the very least a rule locking treasure bearing models to 6" or less move characteristic and no flying is essential, because fast flying models just break such missions in half. If there's only one treasure token, a Crypt Flayer that wins initiative can just grab it and play keep away, and no non-flying model can catch them unless you've got a serious lack of LoS blockers.

Yeah, for reasons like that, I doubt Warcry will ever be a truly balanced game without some sort of big rules patch/overhaul. It's extremely fun if no one is power-gaming... but then you have to rely on tabletop gamers to not power-game :smallbiggrin:

[Squark]

#1 I think is intended. They want the game to feel very swingy and people to gamble on big hits, foe better or worse.

Average damage from a Hurricane Raptor attacking an Ironjawz brute, with the benefit of a triple-5 for rapid fire: 6*(8/6)=8 damage. What happened last night? 24 damage.

And because this keeps. happening. over. and. over. I think it pushed some people over the edge. I've put that set of dice in time out unitl they decide to revert to the mean, but... I really don't like that this is a thing that can happen in the first place.

[9mm]

Average damage from a Hurricane Raptor attacking an Ironjawz brute, with the benefit of a triple-5 for rapid fire: 6*(8/6)=8 damage. What happened last night? 24 damage.

And because this keeps. happening. over. and. over. I think it pushed some people over the edge. I've put that set of dice in time out unitl they decide to revert to the mean, but... I really don't like that this is a thing that can happen in the first place.

see, this is why I play LoN with 14 skelemen and 1 necromancer. you can't shoot them all!

[The Robot Goat]

Hey everybody! Long time since I've posted but I had a question. My good friend plays 40k with me, but I have a decent collection of squig based Gloomspite Gitz and he has recently shown interest in playing Age of Sigmar with me. Specifically, he's interested in Kharadron Overlords, because he loves dwarves and siege weapons. I know that the Kharadron Overlords haven't always been a top tier army, exactly, but I was wondering how they're doing nowadays, and specifically how they would do against squig based Gloomspite?

They don't need to be top-tier, especially because he's more interested in the fluff/painting side of the hobby, but I'd like the games we play to be at least mostly fair.

[Requizen]

Hey everybody! Long time since I've posted but I had a question. My good friend plays 40k with me, but I have a decent collection of squig based Gloomspite Gitz and he has recently shown interest in playing Age of Sigmar with me. Specifically, he's interested in Kharadron Overlords, because he loves dwarves and siege weapons. I know that the Kharadron Overlords haven't always been a top tier army, exactly, but I was wondering how they're doing nowadays, and specifically how they would do against squig based Gloomspite?

They don't need to be top-tier, especially because he's more interested in the fluff/painting side of the hobby, but I'd like the games we play to be at least mostly fair.

For your situation specifically, the Gitz are better than KO in general, but not by an insane margin. You'll have some close games, especially as shooting is a pretty big counter to the Gobbos.

KO are actually imo fine now, but they rely on some pretty set-in-stone tactics to be truly strong. He'll want at least one unit of 30+ Arkanauts with maxed out Skyhooks, and a unit of 6-9 Eindrinriggers with Sawblades, plus enough Aether-Khemists to pump out those extra shots. Boats are a bit of a trap, but the midsized one (Frigate) with some shooty boys inside is fairly alright. He may also enjoy some allies, especially a Stormcast Wizard or two.

Hope this helps!

[LansXero]

Alternatively unless he likes painting metal everything, you could go with Cities of Sigmar. Either use the 'dwarves with siege weapons' sub-faction literally as themselves, or make dwarf-versions of all the free guild stuff. Seen plenty of conversions for old fantasy elf units around, so it should also work with dorfs.

[The Robot Goat]

Thanks all for the responses, glad to hear that it wouldn't be the roughest match-up out there. I also recommended Free Cities, but he's worried that they aren't going to get new models. I do love the dwarf spear-men conversions I've seen out there, though.

[9mm]

Currently KO are best as part of a Cities of Sigmar army, however the rumor mill says that the new Battletome is coming next year, along with Tzeench and Saraphon.

[LansXero]

Thanks all for the responses, glad to hear that it wouldn't be the roughest match-up out there. I also recommended Free Cities, but he's worried that they aren't going to get new models. I do love the dwarf spear-men conversions I've seen out there, though.

Well, since they can ally in Sylvaneth, KO and Stormcasts, they'll always be getting 'new' models; although I doubt the range itself might get much if anything.

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

Hey all, I've been thinking about dipping my toe into Warcry. It looks like a lot of fun and the models are gorgeous. Thoughts and feelings on the gameplay? How have people gone about setting up campaigns?

[Requizen]

Hey all, I've been thinking about dipping my toe into Warcry. It looks like a lot of fun and the models are gorgeous. Thoughts and feelings on the gameplay? How have people gone about setting up campaigns?

Warcry is a lot of fun! As I've posted before, I think it lacks the depth to be a "main wargame" that you play nonstop, but it's excellent as a pick up and play or beer and pretzels game in your hobby repertoire. To that extent, it's good because all you need is your warband box, the Core Rulebook, and a terrain set - or not, if someone else has it. (Alongside of course regular wargaming tools like dice and measuring)

The campaign system is very simple, you don't even have to set up a running map campaign or anything like that. Just confirm if your opponent is also playing a campaign (easy if you all are) and keep track of your own! Campaigns from the book are more of a personal progress system rather than a cooperative storyline, though you could easily add those elements yourself.

What warbands are you looking at?

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

Well my shop is doing a holiday sale and I picked up Splintered Fang and the Corvus Cabal. I figured I might as well pick up some of the terrain as well, and bought the Defiled Ruins. Now I realize I also need the cards and the main rulebook. Overall my investment will be a little over the $175 for the starter kit, but truthfully neither of the starter warbands interested me very much and it seems like I'll be able to pick up everything I need without it. Unless I oughta pick up the chaotic beasts pack as well.

I have one primary opponent and we rotate through 40k, Infinity, and Dystopian Wars. I don't think it would be too hard to add in Warcry to the rotation as well, maybe keeping a once a month campaign going.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Tbh if they had switched out just one of the starter-kit bands for literally any of the others, I probably would have got it. They just had to pick what I think are the two most boring bands for the starter kit.

Like, you have Graeco-roman snake gladiators, super creepy faceless death cultists with a stilt-walking quadriplegic scarecrow (I have a favourite does it show), sophisticated masked dancers, crow-masked assassins, and you pick the... generic furry barbarians, and metal-covered brutes. The two bands that look most like the existing chaos models (though I do have to give the Iron Golems credit for their Bioshock-Big-Daddy helmets).

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

You're not wrong! I like the Iron Golems okay (and very happy to see a Chaos Dwarf), but the Untamed Beasts just turned me right off. I've come back to playing 40K after a seven-year hiatus because I love the lore and heard good things about eight edition. But I've not yet dipped my toe into Age of Sigmar because it doesn't have the same sense of nostalgia attached to it (although I am very happy for everyone else to continue to be enjoying Age of Sigma without me :smallwink:). Part of that was the aesthetic of some of the new sculpts and a lot of the Untamed Beasts look much too much like the generic angry Blades of Khorne type models, in which I have little interest.

That said, literally every other warband in the game is fantastic. I knew I was going to pick up Splintered Fang but was torn in a three-way tie between the Unmade, Cypher Lords, and Corvus Cabal. I ultimately decided that Corvus Cabal would have a distinct enough aesthetic from Splintered Fang and that the higher mobility, lower toughness would be a good contrast in playstyles.

Thoughts and feelings on if I should pick up the Chaotic Beasts? I'm not really feeling the need to at the moment but I'm a little anxious to pick up the Twist deck and find half the cards require me to place a bunch of Furies on the board.

Which warbands do you play, and what has your experience been?

[9mm]

The December update is out. (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/12/17/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-new-updates-now-live/)

Slannessh is finally getting fixed, the Contorted Epitome is still way too cheap, and Demon princes are hilarious now.

[Requizen]

The December update is out. (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/12/17/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-new-updates-now-live/)

Slannessh is finally getting fixed, the Contorted Epitome is still way too cheap, and Demon princes are hilarious now.
What's funny about Princes now? Or were you just talking about the bonkers StD update? Which they kind of needed with how good the god-specific Greater Daemons are now.

I like the Slaanesh update. It's more of a gentle touch than a smashing, which feels better for everyone. Slaanesh gets nerfed and others are happy, but Slaanesh players don't have to bin their entire army. There's a chance that it's not enough of a push (Keepers are still crazy efficient, Locus is nerfed but still one of the better abilities in the game, Summoning will still be efficient, etc), but if they do keep up with 6 month updates, I think it'll be ok.

I don't have much thoughts on a lot of the changes. None of the point drops strike me as big enough to turn the game on its head, but should open up some new support for existing builds. SCE might see more Dracoline Evos, which is cool, but Stardrakes are still a bit pillowfisted for their points. I'll wait and see on the rest. The other rule updates are mostly common sense, other than the Plague Monk changes, which nerf them but they're still very strong horde blendy boys.

[9mm]

What's funny about Princes now? Or were you just talking about the bonkers StD update? Which they kind of needed with how good the god-specific Greater Daemons are now.

the STD update, taking 11d3 mortal wounds while trying to clear maruders is hilarious.



The other rule updates are mostly common sense, other than the Plague Monk changes, which nerf them but they're still very strong horde blendy boys.

the plague monk changes aren't a nerf, its a power redistribution that is a net benefit for speed of play reasons.

[Requizen]

the STD update, taking 11d3 mortal wounds while trying to clear maruders is hilarious.




the plague monk changes aren't a nerf, its a power redistribution that is a net benefit for speed of play reasons.

It is a nerf, you get one less attack with the woe-stave setup now, and the double blade setup is worse. Additionally, when the rats explode on a 6, they can only deal MWs to an enemy within 3" of the model that died, rather than any distance, so if you tag a unit of Monks at the end they can't choose to pull far away models and still hurt you. Very good for big monsters on the charge - can still get hurt, but not the whole unit can do so.

And their exploding attacks happen on Wounds of 6 instead of Hits, which is better and worse depending on buffs, but baseline worse.

Overall, the nerf isn't enough to shelve them (especially since they're still massive bombs with the right buffs), but it is for sure a weaker warscroll than it was yesterday.

[9mm]

It is a nerf, you get one less attack with the woe-stave setup now, and the double blade setup is worse. Additionally, when the rats explode on a 6, they can only deal MWs to an enemy within 3" of the model that died, rather than any distance, so if you tag a unit of Monks at the end they can't choose to pull far away models and still hurt you. Very good for big monsters on the charge - can still get hurt, but not the whole unit can do so.

And their exploding attacks happen on Wounds of 6 instead of Hits, which is better and worse depending on buffs, but baseline worse.

Overall, the nerf isn't enough to shelve them (especially since they're still massive bombs with the right buffs), but it is for sure a weaker warscroll than it was yesterday.

You'll forgive me when I take the word of the current second place ITC player that the new monks > old monks.

Double blades were always better than woe-staves (magic number being 16), you no longer need to keep 4 piles of dice, double blades now hit more often, pull order only matters if you are daisy chaining and you rely on Death Frenzy for death trigger damage anyway.

[Requizen]

You'll forgive me when I take the word of the current second place ITC player that the new monks > old monks.

Double blades were always better than woe-staves (magic number being 16), you no longer need to keep 4 piles of dice, double blades now hit more often, pull order only matters if you are daisy chaining and you rely on Death Frenzy for death trigger damage anyway.

They're better in that it's more streamlined and easier for play. They're mathematically worse damage for both weapon options as well as MW on death. I agree that they're better for the game now that one unit doesn't take 20 minutes to roll out, but it's still a nerf from a stat perspective.

Do people actually submit AoS events to ITC? I honestly don't hear about it outside 40k anymore. From what I gather it's basically just West Coast.

[9mm]

Do people actually submit AoS events to ITC? I honestly don't hear about it outside 40k anymore. From what I gather it's basically just West Coast.

Pretty much everyone except Adepticon (who doesn't submit despite the players telling the TO to submit) submit to the ITC these days.

[Requizen]

Pretty much everyone except Adepticon (who doesn't submit despite the players telling the TO to submit) submit to the ITC these days.

I mean, except the UK, Australia, most of Europe, most of the midwest (including some of the largest AoS events in the US), and big southern events like Nashcon. Not to put down the accoplishments of reaching that high on the rankings, as it's still fairly popular, but imo it doesn't really hold the weight of something like 40k does.

I personally would prefer if it was more popular, a wide adoption of an international ranking system would be great for competitive AoS, but it's still fairly fractured overall.

Anyway, this is tangential at best.

[Requizen]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/12/25/happy-christmas-from-warhammer-communitygw-homepage-post-1/

KO and Tzeentch box + Battletomes! The characters look pretty amazing too. Hopefully they'll make both armies not just one-tricks, I have a lot of faith in that given how good the recent slew of books have been.

[9mm]

And the rumor mill continues to be correct. (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/12/25/happy-christmas-from-warhammer-communitygw-homepage-post-1/)

new Tzeench and KO this January.

Meanwhile the latest White Dwarf Nighthaunt Battalions are really good.

[PraetorDragoon]

Partially tempted to get that box, but questioning myself if I want even more skyriggers and discgors. :smallbiggrin:

[Requizen]

Partially tempted to get that box, but questioning myself if I want even more skyriggers and discgors. :smallbiggrin:

And the truth is, you won't know until the book comes out :smallbiggrin: Worse comes to worst, you can always hang on to it and sell it after.

I do like the idea of a Kharadron army, but to be honest I have enough shooting in my Stormcast that it doesn't really feel like I'd get a different experience out of them unless they really revamp the vehicle mechanics and make it interesting. Disc-based Tzeentch does seem cool but I dunno if it'd be my first choice for a new army.

[Requizen]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/12/30/faction-focus-kharadron-overlordsgw-homepage-post-2/

Kharadron! The changes sound good so far, being able to shoot out of boats is solid, and boats just having an innate teleport is pretty bonkers.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/02/faction-focus-disciples-of-tzeentch/

Tzeentch, on the other hand, seem like they're going to be insanely frustrating again. Destiny Dice remain (eww) and a faction that lets you summon your first Lord of Change super cheap, plus an innate -1 hit melee Locus? I can't wait to pull my hair out, it'll be just like 2017 all over again :smallsigh:


In other news, I committed a list for the end of the month and now need to get 90 Boyz + Heroes and Rogue Idol painted in a few weeks. Contrast, hooooo

[Ornithologist]

Frankly, I'm most excited that one of the KO subfactions is going to have frigates as battle line. Makes me hope that a boat centric list is goi gto ve viable.

[PraetorDragoon]

The tzeentch stuff is thematic, but is probably not all that enjoyable ingame.

Skydwarfs on the other hand seem to get the things they needed to get in their first release.

[Requizen]

Frankly, I'm most excited that one of the KO subfactions is going to have frigates as battle line. Makes me hope that a boat centric list is goi gto ve viable.
It'll depend on their point values. The small and medium boats are still too expensive atm, but scuttlebutt is that we'll see some noteworthy warscroll and point changes alongside the subfaction stuff.

The tzeentch stuff is thematic, but is probably not all that enjoyable ingame.

Skydwarfs on the other hand seem to get the things they needed to get in their first release.

I'm fully ready for Tzeentch to be a problem again, but tbh the power level in the game right now is a lot higher than when the first book came out and broke the game, so it probably won't be too crazy in comparison. "If everything is OP, nothing is" and what not.

[Tome]

I'm just hoping my mortals only lists will be a bit more viable.

The changes to kairic acolytes make me optimistic. (I don't mind summoning in some daemons, but I prefer to avoid the tzaangors.)

[PraetorDragoon]

So the upcoming big book is a new book in the Soul Wars: Wrath of the Everchosen, death vs chaos. We will see what it brings.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/04/reveals-from-the-new-year-open-day-2020gw-homepage-post-1/

[9mm]

https://www.facebook.com/GWWarhammerAgeofSigmar/videos/vb.452117934985005/771114520055679/?type=2&theater

oh god my wallet.

[Destro_Yersul]

Pointy elves? Oh dear.

[Requizen]

That new Underworlds warband looks great! Finally a replacement to the old Hunter, I bet you see lots of people using him as their foot dude.

Pointy aelves are.... interesting, and I've historically liked the aesthetic, but I've come to enjoy AoS's wacky take on the various traditional races. Dunno if I'd be as tempted by them as Deepkin, personally, but I'm glad they exist for the people who prefer that.

[LeSwordfish]

We played a few test games for the team tournament on the weekend, with my Khorne up against first Stormcast and then Ogors.

My List
Daemon Prince of Khorne (Thronebreaker's Torc, General)
Skarbrand
Bloodsecrator (Thermalrider's Cloak)
Slaughterpriest (Resanguination)
Slaughterpriest (Bronzed Flesh)
Bloodstoker
15x Blood Warriors
10x Bloodreavers
10x Bloodreavers
5x Wrathmongers
6x Bloodcrushers

The general vibe is that Skarbrand, the Blood Warriors, and the Bloodcrushers are three threats which hit home pretty quickly and need to be dealt with. If both the Wrathmongers and Bloodsecrator are in range, Skarbrand deals 24 damage, no questions asked. The Daemon Prince has his great command ability, automatically fights first, and with the Thronebreakers Torc has a 3++ and lasts a while against anything other than mortal wounds.

Better Part Of Valor Vs Stormcast Eternals

He had shooting and an Everblaze Comet, so I took the first turn even though that meant I couldn't get the charge. His army was based around a lot of casting, plus a deathstar of Evocators on Dracolines with Staunch, so they were making saves on 2+rr... or something.
He froze Skarbrand out by deploying everything far away so Skarbrand never made it to combat.
One side of the board had a huge piece of Entangling terrain, which his Evocator force had to pass: I charged my Bloodcrushers straight into it and took a gamble - that paid off, when even with a re-roll, halving and reducing charge distance meant the Evocators didn't make the charge and my Bloodcrushers instead got them good.
I was skeptical about the Hexgorger Skulls, but my opponent misplayed by using his Lord-Whatsit to drop his cogs and then tried to spam spells - causing them to explode not once but twice and kill the Lord-Thingummy and half the dracolines.
My opponent snatched two objectives off me in the last turn with Judicators and Vanguard Hunters coming in from space, but he'd delayed a little too long on burning his own, and I was able to push forward and burn them for lots of points and get an unbreakable lead.
Skarbrand Running Kill Total: 0



Blood and Glory vs Ogors

My opponent had a two-drop list of a Goremand and Frostlord on Stonehorn.
The Daemon Prince did great work again, protecting my bloodcrushers from a charge by a big group of Gluttons, and then the Slaughtermaster exploded himself on the hexgorger skulls.
The Blood Warriors made a first-turn charge on the Stonehorn, and effectively tied it up for the rest of the game.
Skarbrand made a fully-buffed charge this game, dealing those twenty-four wounds to the other big group of Gluttons, causing the rest to flee. This left him exposed to some Leadbelcher shooting, but they rolled a 3 for their 2d6 attacks and he survived on only a few wounds left.
My opponent had further terrible luck with his gluttons and Ironbellies failing to scratch either the Bloodcrushers or the Daemon Prince, and what I had thought was an entirely lost cause of a flank actually turned in my favor over time.
After shooting and Thunderous Charge, Skarbrand is at four wounds left. The Slaughtermaster and Leadbelchers charge, but only one gets to go before Skarbrand himself. The leadbelchers beat him down to one wound with their guns, and then land a hit and a wound with their bites. Thanks to Ribcracker, he needs a 6 to save - and gets it! Skarbrand survives on one wound, and chops up the ogors.
Turn 3, Skarbrand moves onto one of my opponent's objectives, and the Daemon Prince disengages onto the other. Major Victory!
Skarbrand Kill Running Total: 8 Gluttons, 2 Leadbelchers, Slaughtermaster.


I'm pretty pleased with my list (good, because the deadline to change it has passed). I got a lot of good luck (a few excellent charge rolls, poor luck on my opponent's part, and lots of opportunities for things to go against me that didn't come up), and my opponent in the first game made a few misplays - in retrospect, we decided that when casting at a -2, re-rolling successes, the chances of successfully casting are so low compared to the chances of exploding oneself are so low as to not be worth bothering with. The way that multipliers and modifiers stack makes -to charge really good when combined with the Daemon Prince halving charge ranges, so I wish I had an in-list source of that, but the Thermalrider's Cloak was consistently excellent on the Bloodsecrator, so I don't know how I could get any of it in.

A question: Hexgorger Skulls explode if my opponent rolls an Unmodified 8 and apply a -2, and the Bloodsecrator forces opponents to re-roll successful casts. If my opponent rolls an 8 while within range of the Bloodsecrator and it is a success, do the skulls explode, or is my opponent forced to re-roll first?

[PraetorDragoon]

After rerolls, just like unmodified hit/wound rolls. :smallwink:

[LeSwordfish]

The Hexgorger Skulls also cause the casting attempt to fail - does that kick in before the re-roll, so you don't get the re-roll, or does the re-roll happen before you have an "unmodified" result.

[PraetorDragoon]

iirc rerolls are before modifiers. Its weird like that.

New KO warscrolls are around, and I'm a bit miffed that I have to change some wargear around. I'm also wondering if I should keep rigger saws or not.

[Wraith]

It seems to have flown under the radar - I only know about it because a close friend specifically pointed it out to me - by GW are launching another subscription-only, build-your-own-army magazine called Age of Sigmar: Mortal Realms (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/07/start-your-journey-into-the-mortal-realmsgw-homepage-post-4/)

Collect Stormcast Eternals and Nighthaunt a dozen models at a time (or rather, half-a-sprue of a large monster when appropriate) along with paints, brushes, model holder, paint pot, palette, clippers and other modelling accessories over the course of the next... year or so, I think? Going by the pictures it seems to be roughly 52 weeks, at 3 Stormcast/handful of 'Gaunts per issue.

Only available in the UK and Spain, for some reason, so I don't know how many people would be able to get hold of it if they wanted to... But it's interesting none-the-less.

[Requizen]

It seems to have flown under the radar - I only know about it because a close friend specifically pointed it out to me - by GW are launching another subscription-only, build-your-own-army magazine called Age of Sigmar: Mortal Realms (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/07/start-your-journey-into-the-mortal-realmsgw-homepage-post-4/)

Collect Stormcast Eternals and Nighthaunt a dozen models at a time (or rather, half-a-sprue of a large monster when appropriate) along with paints, brushes, model holder, paint pot, palette, clippers and other modelling accessories over the course of the next... year or so, I think? Going by the pictures it seems to be roughly 52 weeks, at 3 Stormcast/handful of 'Gaunts per issue.

Only available in the UK and Spain, for some reason, so I don't know how many people would be able to get hold of it if they wanted to... But it's interesting none-the-less.

Yeah it's pretty neat but wrong country for me :smallfrown:

I've already heard that people are buying up multiple subscriptions and then flipping the sprues for full cost of what they'd be. As expected, to be honest.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

If they ever bring a similar Conquest-style subscription to Canada, I'd snap that up...

[Avaris]

It seems to have flown under the radar - I only know about it because a close friend specifically pointed it out to me - by GW are launching another subscription-only, build-your-own-army magazine called Age of Sigmar: Mortal Realms (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/07/start-your-journey-into-the-mortal-realmsgw-homepage-post-4/)

Collect Stormcast Eternals and Nighthaunt a dozen models at a time (or rather, half-a-sprue of a large monster when appropriate) along with paints, brushes, model holder, paint pot, palette, clippers and other modelling accessories over the course of the next... year or so, I think? Going by the pictures it seems to be roughly 52 weeks, at 3 Stormcast/handful of 'Gaunts per issue.

Only available in the UK and Spain, for some reason, so I don't know how many people would be able to get hold of it if they wanted to... But it's interesting none-the-less.

It’s 80 issues, just like Warhammer Conquest. Looks to have a good range of stuff available!

[PraetorDragoon]

Conquest is definitly good value. Definitly a recommendation if you want the models included.

Played some warcry yesterday. I think I'm finally getting grips with the Unmade. Use the leader to steamroll things and the other fellas to support him and make sure he can't be attacked.

[Requizen]

Conquest is definitly good value. Definitly a recommendation if you want the models included.

Played some warcry yesterday. I think I'm finally getting grips with the Unmade. Use the leader to steamroll things and the other fellas to support him and make sure he can't be attacked.

IMO, Unmade are 100% about abusing Nightmarish Visage. You want as many Doubles as possible, chuck your chumps up the board, and lock down important units. Then your Blissful One cleans house!

[9mm]

Battletome Nurgle Muraders has been FAQ'd to much rejoicing. (https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/b881d90a.pdf)

[PraetorDragoon]

IMO, Unmade are 100% about abusing Nightmarish Visage. You want as many Doubles as possible, chuck your chumps up the board, and lock down important units. Then your Blissful One cleans house!

I made less use of the Nightmarish Visage than I should, but it is very good. Upping that in priority next time.

[LeSwordfish]

Brotherhood battle report!

I was at Brotherhood in cardiff this weekend with a group of friends, and we were aware going into it that this was a big event in the UK AOS calendar - i'm not much of one for following "the scene" but my companions who were kept saying things like "I heard that Facehammer will be there", as if I should know who Facehammer were. We were a group of chumps in comparison, so we pretty much wanted to just not come last.

My List
Daemon Prince of Khorne (Thronebreaker's Torc, General)
Skarbrand
Bloodsecrator (Thermalrider's Cloak)
Slaughterpriest (Resanguination)
Slaughterpriest (Bronzed Flesh)
Bloodstoker
15x Blood Warriors
10x Bloodreavers
10x Bloodreavers
5x Wrathmongers
6x Bloodcrushers
Hexgorger Skulls
Skull Altar

Skarbrand and the Bloodcrushers can do a truckload of mortal wounds in the right condition, The slaughterpriests, skulls, and altar shut down enemy wizards, and between the Goretide command ability and the Bloodstoker, I can charge the warriors or reavers 17+2d6 inches.

My preferred Hidden Agendas were Onslaught (make a 9" charge, which I was able to do pretty easily with the whip), and Sacrifice (get Skarbrand killed by a Hero or Monster) which I only got once since he kept dying to spells or non-hero units.


Practice Game - Shifting Objectives vs Skaven - 5 Stormfiends, HPA, 90 assorted rats

I setup to go for all three objectives, while my opponent castled up to one side, ready to jump through a Gnawhole.
My opponent gave me the first turn, which allowed me to rocket blood warriors across the board and into a screen of rats that they did very little to, although they did just clip the stormfiends.
Bloodreivers took a break from "shielding objectives" to get on with "shielding gnawholes".
I managed to take all three objectives on the first turn, and the stormfiends being in combat meant that Skarbrand made it into their lines to just erase twenty clanrats. This was the biggest kill he would make for quite a while. Off to the left, the Bloodcrushers do much the same thing with impact hits.
The Daemon Prince was erased by a warp lightning vortex, and half the rest of my heroes took a few wounds.
The stormfiends, having mulched the blood warriors, mulch Skarbrand.
At the end of the game I hadn't really killed much except clanrats and been pretty decimated myself, but forcing the board control meant that I was racking up points fast enough to be well ahead.

Skarbrand Kill Running Total: 8 Gluttons, 2 Leadbelchers, Slaughtermaster, twenty clanrats.

Game One - Total Commitment vs Tzeentch Changehost (note that it was the old book, by TO's order)

We're up against a team that looks rather stronger, but I get a good matchup.
This game was so similar to the Skaven one - me vs a real big castle - that a few days after the fact I'm struggling to remember which moments were from which.
Lots of magic coming in, far more than my antimagic could effectively stop. Having some nullifying terrain helped, but between all the various bonuses to cast, until my hexgorger skulls were in range, all I had was a "re-roll successes" and my attempts to unbind - and frustratingly what kept happening was that he would re-roll a successful six into a successful fourteen or whatever, meaning my unbinds were useless.
The full Nonsense Cannon was only in action for one turn, though, meaning all my heavy hitters - Prince, Skarbrand, Skullcrushers - made it in reasonably healthily. Just about everything else died, though.
The Hexgorger Skulls only exploded once, not killing anything - but my opponent then avoided them for the rest of the game, which cut down on the magic a lot. Still lots of summoning shenanigans though, lots of darting around and swapping and dropping horrors everywhere. While Khorne has a rule where you can't add models to the unit to take it into combat, Old!Tzeentch has nothing similar and he was able to deny me lots of useful movement and charge bonuses by clipping units.
I get eight blood tithe points, enough for a Bloodthirster! I don't have a Bloodthirster! I drop down twenty bloodletters instead and draw a big ridiculous line to deny him summoning onto two objectives.
I'm doing pretty badly at the end, but I have a big points lead. Victory to Khorne!
Skarbrand Kill Running Total: 8 Gluttons, 2 Leadbelchers, Slaughtermaster, twenty clanrats, about thirty assorted horrors.

Game Two - Blood and Glory vs Hallowheart - Luminark, Hurricanum, wizards, crossbows, handgunners.

As a team, we practically drew last round, so we go up to the mid-tables to face off against someone that my more community-minded companions are all terrified of. "It's Dice Studz!" they say. "The Facehammer people. Look, that's Tony!". None of these names mean anything to me at all.
My opponent castles up big around a Soulscream Bridge so he can teleport around, and though I could make it in on the charge I decide not to, afraid of the overwatch they get to do. "They'll shoot anyway," I think. This is a mistake.
Everything dies. My opponent was nice when chatting before the game but soon gained the dispassionate mien of a man clubbing yet another seal. The hexgorger skulls are out of range first turn - as always - and so all I can do is try to deny against over a dozen spells with +6 or more.
Turn two, everything effective I have is dead except the Daemon Prince, who hops onto the other end of the Soulscream Bridge to block it, and summons a group of bloodletters. They charge, kill two crossbowmen, and die. Then the daemon prince dies.
Turn three and four all I can do is back away out of range and try not to be killed too much - every two units of mine that die is another small group of Bloodletters to die.
I don't quite get wiped. I had a big points advantage at the start, but my opponent effortlessly pushes it back to a 10-12 loss.
He explains kindly that this is not bad, considering he and his team are ETC world champions. Knew I knew the name from somewhere.
Skarbrand Kill Running Total: 8 Gluttons, 2 Leadbelchers, Slaughtermaster, twenty clanrats, about thirty assorted horrors.

I kind of want to play Hallowheart now? AOS has been Mathematically Solved. It was like being run over by a well-oiled machine and being congratulated for some of my blood having sprayed into the driver's eye.

Game Three - Places of Arcane Power vs Orruk Warclans - two Maw-krushas, two units of pigs, two Warchantas

The Daemon Prince does basically nothing because they're all so fast.
I park a small hero on each of the two flank objectives, and he squashes each of them with a Maw-krusha.
If I can kill both the krushas, I can win this, I think - they're such a huge portion of his army. I spend blood tithe points to race my Bloodcrushers into one, and Skarbrand makes a long charge on some pigs in the hope of getting up close to the other.
The Bloodcrushers get one down to four wounds with their impact hits. I choose to fight first with them, and they fail to kill it. The pigs then kill skarbrand dead from full wounds. Those are both moments of real bad luck, and while it's a poor workman who blames his dice, there really isn't any coming back after that.
Skarbrand Kill Running Total: 8 Gluttons, 2 Leadbelchers, Slaughtermaster, twenty clanrats, about thirty assorted horrors.

When I started that tally I was really hoping for some more effective kills.

Game Four - Knife To The Heart vs Mawtribes - 3x Stonehorns, 3x 4 Mournfangs
My hope is to use my Daemon Prince to pick and choose fights and either punch through or do a sneaky summon onto the other objective late in the game. My Skull Altar is only 12" away, so if he leaves it undefended I can get a really easy win.
Daemon Prince and Blood Warriors try and charge one of the units of mournfangs, and between the two of them kill zero models. The prince dies immediately. Great job, folks.
The Hexgorger Skulls don't actually do anything this game, but I can use them to screen and manage to successfully freeze one of the stonehorns out of the fight.
Skarbrand lines up for a 3" charge on some Mournfangs and rolls a double one, which i re-roll with my last command point. The bloodcrushers are setup for a 6" charge on a stonehorn, which they juuust make - only one of them gets in, so no 6d3 mortal wounds. While the Mournfangs die hard, the bloodcrushers are wiped out.
I'm not doing great, especially since my opponent specifically asks me about summoning and I have to admit that the Skull Altar does it. He moves a Stonehorn back onto it. I use Blood Tithe points to charge it with Skarbrand, but Skarbrand is in perfect health so doesn't hit nearly as hard, whiffs entirely, and dies like a chump. Game over.
Skarbrand Kill Running Total: 8 Gluttons, 2 Leadbelchers, Slaughtermaster, twenty clanrats, about thirty assorted horrors, four mournfangs.

Game Five - Border War vs Mawtribes - 4x Stonehorns, 2x 2 Mournfangs, Slaughtermaster

He gives me the first turn, and I screen pretty heavily, getting both border objectives with reavers at a distance - they all get charged and die, though. It definitely comes down to who gets turn two priority, and I roll a 2 - thankfully, he rolls a 1 and I'm laughing.
Skarbrand kills two Stonehorns in one combat phase, which is more bloody like it - thanks to two sixes on his Slaughter dice, he in fact deals forty mortal wounds to one.
The Bloodcrushers deal ten mortal wounds to another, but only two of them are alive to fight so can't quite finish it off. On the other side of the board, my blood warriors and a pair of mournfangs grind each other into oblivion.
Two Stonehorns are still around, and after Skarbrand is killed I can't really do anything to stop them sitting on the objectives and scoring me into oblivion.
Skarbrand Kill Running Total: 8 Gluttons, 2 Leadbelchers, Slaughtermaster, twenty clanrats, about thirty assorted horrors, four mournfangs, two stonehorns.

And that's it! One win, four losses, two of which were very close - I think for a non-meta list and a tournament novice, that's pretty respectable.


I should have taken a proper bloodthirster - instead of the prince, instead of skarbrand, or as well as both. Skarbrand needs careful piloting to do his thing, the prince is dependent on enemies wanting to charge without bonuses... just a straightforward heavy hitter would have been better, and could have taken artefacts, general traits, and such.
The bloodcrushers were a off-meta pic but honestly a pretty good one - they whiffed a few times due to bad luck, but scored me other objectives, cleared out plenty of chaff.
I'm not nearly as anti-magic as other people can be magic. The hexgorger skulls have a 28" range, which isn't enough to get wizards who aren't pushing their deployment, which means I just have a forced re-roll and only two attempts to deny. They're great when in range, but I think probably only really work when my opponent wants to move forward with their magic.
I think I'm done with Khorne. I'm not sure they're the style I really want to stick with, I'm looking into something with a bit more range - cities? Shooty stormcast?

[9mm]

Brotherhood battle report!
And that's it! One win, four losses, two of which were very close - I think for a non-meta list and a tournament novice, that's pretty respectable.


Not bad, though getting paired against a Facehammer member is bad beats. Sad to see the Skarbrand running total end though. If you want to do a shooty army the answers is Cities or Tzeench. KO, unfortunately have way to many caveats that hamper them into oblivion.

[Requizen]

Brotherhood battle report!

And that's it! One win, four losses, two of which were very close - I think for a non-meta list and a tournament novice, that's pretty respectable.


I should have taken a proper bloodthirster - instead of the prince, instead of skarbrand, or as well as both. Skarbrand needs careful piloting to do his thing, the prince is dependent on enemies wanting to charge without bonuses... just a straightforward heavy hitter would have been better, and could have taken artefacts, general traits, and such.
The bloodcrushers were a off-meta pic but honestly a pretty good one - they whiffed a few times due to bad luck, but scored me other objectives, cleared out plenty of chaff.
I'm not nearly as anti-magic as other people can be magic. The hexgorger skulls have a 28" range, which isn't enough to get wizards who aren't pushing their deployment, which means I just have a forced re-roll and only two attempts to deny. They're great when in range, but I think probably only really work when my opponent wants to move forward with their magic.
I think I'm done with Khorne. I'm not sure they're the style I really want to stick with, I'm looking into something with a bit more range - cities? Shooty stormcast?


Nice report! Sounds like some harsh matchups and tough teams, but the games seemed close enough to not be complete shutouts.

Bloodcrushers are better, imo, when taken en masse. I have a friend who plays the battalion with them and it's hard to shut them down when he just runs the entire thing across the board. And I agree about magic - if you can't fully nullify Tzeentch or Hallowheart, it's almost not worth focusing on. The Skulls are still dope though.

If you're looking for shooting, 9mm is right about Cities and Tzeentch, those seem to be the top performers, though they're more "entirely ranged" than "balanced melee/ranged". There's still some bickering about KO though - some people seem to think they're very viable board control shooting, others think they're worthless, but I think if you're interested, wait a month or two for the book to get shaken out. Stormcast have some good shooting options, I have a lot of success with Longstrike Anvils and other people play Ballistas to good effect, and those lists still have some melee teeth. Skaven are another army that can go super powerful at ranged, as you've noticed.

Other armies with a mix of shooting, though still heavily with melee, would include Bonesplitterz, Ogors, certain Sylvaneth builds, Ossiarch Bonereapers (just the catapults but they're great), and Seraphon (Magic and Bastiladons). Even if you want to stay Khorne, splashing some Skull Cannons in can make a good difference in picking off enemy shooting, though they're not super efficient for the points.

[LeSwordfish]

I have a bunch of Ogors and the Stormcast Battlebox under my bed ready to be painted, and although I think I've turned on the Ogors enough to get rid of them, I'll probably keep the stormcast around for a little to see how their book turns out (There isn't one rumored, but I'd put money on one happening within six months or so), and it also seems likely Seraphon are soon so worth looking out for them, they have a lot of fun things.

Someone at the event was running about twenty Kurnoth Hunters with bows which is... certainly an option. I love the models, at least.

[Cheesegear]

Once again, bearing in mind that I have little knowledge of AoS outside Cities of Sigmar (I don't even know about Kharadons, and they're [allegedly] good now!), here's the results from CanCon, the one of the biggest AoS (singles) event in the world;

Chaos - 57 lists
Death - 46 lists
Destruction - 45 lists
Order - 76 lists

...With 26 dropouts. For a total of 280.

Largest showings are

Bonereapers (Petrifex) - 18
Skaventide - 13
Mawtribes (Bloodgullet) - 9
Seraphon - 8
Khorne (Reapers), Nurgle, Gloomspite Gitz and Cities (Hallowheart) - 7

For the 'Mode 5', that's surprisingly little - especially compared to the ****show that is Competitive 40K right now.

All Rounds take place in Ghyran.

Daughters, Khailebron (Ulgu)
Morathi; Shroad of Despair
(G) Bloodwrack Medusa; Mistress of Illusion, Shadowstone, Mindrazor
Hag Queen; Catechism of Murder
Hag Queen; Martyr's Sacrifice

Witch Aelves (x20); Pairs of Knives
Witch Aelves (x30); Knives and Bucklers
Sisters of Slaughter (x30); Whips and Bucklers
Khinerai Lifetakers (x10)
Khinerai Heartrenders (x5)

Shadow Warriors (x10) (Cities of Sigmar)

2000 Points

Only person playing Daughters of Khaine at the entire tournament (n=254).

Khorne, Reapers of Vengeance (Ghur)
(G) Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster; Mage Eater, Skullshard Mantle
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage; Amberglaive
Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury; The Crimson Crown
Bloodsecrator
Skulltaker
Slaughterpriest; Killing Frenzy

Flesh Hounds (x5)
Flesh Hounds (x5)
Flesh Hounds (x5)
Flesh Hounds (x5)
Flesh Hounds (x5)

Murderhost
Tyrants of Blood

1980 Points | +2 CPs

Deepkin, Dhom-Hain
Volturnos, High King of the Deep
Isharann Soulscryer; Cloud of Midnight
Isharann Soulscryer

Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (x3)
Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (x3)
Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (x6)
Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (x3)
Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (x3)
Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (x3)
Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (x3)

Shadow Warriors (x10) (Cities of Sigmar)

2000 Points | +1 CP

13. ???
'
Bonereapers, Petrifex
(G) Liege-Kavalos; Mighty Archaeossian, Godbone Armour
Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead

Mortrek Guard (x30); Blades and Shields, Greatblades (x3)
Mortrek Guard (x20); Blades and Shields, Greatblades (x2)
Mortrek Guard (x10); Blades and Shields, Greatblade

Endless Spells
Bone-Tithe Shrieker
Purple Sun of Shyish
Nightmare Predator

1980 Points

Cities, Hammerhal
(G) Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix; Blood of the Twelve, The Twinstone
Celestial Hurricanum with Celestial Battlemage; Wings of Fire
Battlemage; Wings of Fire, [Ghur]

Celestant-Prime (Stormcast Eternals)

Freeguild Handgunners (x10); Honoured Retinue
Freeguild Handgunners (x10)
Phoenix Guard (x30)

Shadow Warriors (x10)
Shadow Warriors (x10)

Endless Spells
Soulscream Bridge

2000 Points | +1 CP

Remembering that Cities Battlemages can just pick which Realm they're from. Which is a decent buff when you go into the tournament knowing that every single game is in Ghur.

Fyreslayers, Hermdar (Shyish)
(G) Auric Runefather; Warrior Indominate, Tyrant Slayer
Auric Runemaster
Battlesmith; The Nulsidian Icon
Auric Runesmiter; Forge Key

Hearthguard Berzerkers (x20); Broadaxes
Hearthguard Berzerkers (x20); Poleaxes
Vulkite Berzerkers (x30); Picks & Shields
Auric Hearthguard (x5)

Lords of the Lodge

Endless Spells
Runic Fyrewall

2000 Points | +1 CP

Ironjawz, Ironsunz (Hysh)
(G) Megaboss on Maw-Krusha; Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth Fist, Right Fist of Dakkbad, Sunblessed Armour, Mean 'Un
Warchanter; Killa Beat
Warchanter; Killa Beat
Weirdnob Shame; Aetherquartz Brooch, Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork ...Did GW honestly name a unit 'Weirdnob'? Surely that's taking the piss?

Orruk Ardboys (x15); Banner & Glyph
Orruk Brutes (x10); Gore-Hakkas, Gore Choppas (x2)
Orruk Gore-Gruntas (x6); Pig-Iron Choppas

Ironfist

1960 Points | +1 CP

Anvilgard (Aqshy)
Black Market Bounty

(G) Dreadlord on Black Dragon; Exile Blade & Shield, Blackfang Crimelord (Sorcery), Venomfang Blade, Jutting Bones
Dreadlord on Black Dragon; Lance of Spite & Shield, Acidic Blood
Sorceress on Black Dragon; Witch Rod, Drakescale Cloak, Vitrolic Spray
Knight-Azyros (Stormcast Eternals)

Drakespawn Chariot
Drakespawn Chariot
Drakespawn Chariot
Drakespawn Knights (x15)
Scourgerunner Chariots (x3)
Scourgerunner Chariots (x3)

Endless Spells
Malevolent Maelstrom

2000 Points

It's disappointing (to me) to see a mono-Faction Cities list. But, if you are going to play mono-Faction, then Anvilgard Dark Elves is the way to do it, I guess. Only because Anvilgard literally asks you 'Yo, where's all your Dark Elves at?'.

Cites, Hallowheart (Aqshy)
(G) Anointed; Warden of the Flame, Thermalrider Cloak
Sorceress; Roaming Wildfire, Warding Brand, General's Adjutant
Luminark of Hysh with White Battlemage; Elemental Cyclone, Sear Wounds
Celestial Hurricanum with Celestial Battlemage; Crystal Aegis, Ignite Weapons

Phoenix Guard (x30)
Darkshards (x10); Honoured Retinue
Darkshards (x10)

Gyrocopters (x3)

Shadow Warriors (x10)
Shadow Warriors (x10)
Sisters of the Thorn (x5); Warding Brand, Roaming Wildfire

Endless Spells
Prismatic Palisade
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh

1980 Points

You don't play 'Elves'. You play Cities of Sigmar, now. Which means jamming in Wizard Wagons and Gyrocopters.

Tzeentch, Host Duplicitous
Archaon the Everchosen; Infusion Arcanum ...**** yeah.
Chaos Sorcerer Lord; Brand of the Sprit Daemon, Bolt of Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch; Fold Reality
(G) Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch; Will of the Phantom Lord, Glimpse the Future

Chaos Marauders (x20); Axes & Shields
Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (x10)
Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (x10)

Endless Spells
Balewind Vortex
Darkfire Daemonrift
Purple Sun of Shyish

2000 Points

Tzeentch, Guild of Summoners
Gaunt Summoner; Aspect of Tzeentch, Bolt of Tzeentch
(G) Magister on Disc of Tzeentch; Prophet of the Ostensible, Arcane Suggestion
Orgroid Thaumaturge; Infusion Arcanum
The Changeling; Unchecked Mutation
Tzaangor Shaman; Brimstone Familiar, Shield of Fate
Magister; Glimpse the Future

Kairic Acolytes (x10); Blades & Shields, Cursed Glaives (x3)
Kairic Acolytes (x10); Blades & Shields, Cursed Glaives (x3)
Tzaangors (x10); Blades (x5), Greatblades (x4), Blade and Shield

Tzaangor Englightened on Discs (x3)
Tzaangor Skyfires (x3)

Arcanite Cabal

Endless Spells
Balewind Vortex
Burning Sigil of Tzeentch
Tome of Eyes
Daemonic Simulacrum

1980 Points | +1 CP

(G) Orruk Megaboss; Brutish Cunning
Maniak Weirdnob; Breath of Gorkamorka
Orruk Warchanter; Fixin' Beat
Wardokk; Kunnin' Beast Spirits
Wardokk; Kunnin' Beast Spirits, Mork's Boney Bitz

Savage Orruk Arrowboys (x30)
Savage Orruks (x30); Stikkas
Orkk Gore-Grunters (x6); Pig-Iron Choppas

Rogue Idol

2000 Points

Hermdar (Hysh)
(G) Auric Runemaster; Warrior Indominate, Prayer of Ash, Aetherquartz Brooch
Auric Runefather; Tyrant Slayer
Auric Runesmiter; Runic Iron, Ember Storm
Battlesmith; The Nulsidian Icon

Auric Hearthguard (x5)
Auric Hearthguard (x5)
Auric Hearthguard (x5)
Hearthguard Berzerkers (x20); Broadaxes
Hearthguard Berzerkers (x20); Poleaxes

Lords of the Lodge
Forge Brethren

Endless Spells
Runic Fyrewall

1980 Points | +2 CPs.

Petrifax
(G) Liege-Kavalos; Mighty Archaeossian, Godbone Armour
Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead

Kavalos Deathriders (x15); Blade & Shield
Kavalos Deathriders (x5); Blade & Shield
Kavalos Deathriders (x5); Blade & Shield

Endless Spells
Bone-Tithe Shrieker
Emerald Lifeswarm

2000 Points

I'm sure somebody's going to tell me that Deathriders are b0rked, and this list makes total sense?



Eternal Conflagration
Lord of Change; Rod of Sorcery, Coruscating Flames, Shroud of Warpflame, Tzeentch's Firestorm
Fatemaster
Gaunt Summoner on Disc of Tzeentch; Arcane Suggestion, Aura of Mutability
The Blue Scribes; Fold Reality
Fatecaster, Herald of Tzeentch; Staff of Tzeentch, Bolt of Tzeentch
Changeling; Treason of Tzeentch

Pink Horrors (x10)
Brimstone Horrors (x10)
Brimstone Horrors (x10)
Flamers (x3)
Flamers (x3)

Changehost

Endless Spells
Emerald Lifeswarm
Aethervoid Pendulum
Darkfire Daemonrift

2000 Points | +1 CP

[Destro_Yersul]

And since it's not 40k, here's the other thing I've been painting. It's an old model, for an army that technically no longer exists, but dammit I love my Egyptian skeletons and GW can't stop me.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/656923968317685794/680587594333290565/IMG_0914.JPG

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

That looks fantastic, Destro! I agree that the Tomb Kings were one of the best-looking armies. The bronze and blue play off each other really well - there's a lapis lazuli look to the cloak that I think fits in very well. Is the staff going to stay black?

Also, for games that keep in the Egyptian aesthetic, I've been a fan of Wargods of Aegyptus for a long time. Despite not really having an active player-base in my area (or, looking online, really anywhere) the company is still putting out new stuff. It might be worth a look.

-----------

I played my first few games of Warcry this week, using my Splintered Fang warband against Iron Golems. We were both playing for the first time and really loved it. It had some surprisingly interesting maneuvering challenges, and because SF have a lot of 2-inch and 3-inch weapons, there were a lot of fun moments of measuring distance from fighters to objectives to other fighters and similar. It gave us the kind of cinematic experience we got from playing Infinity, but the barrier to entry (in terms of rule density) was much lower. Plus, my warband is exactly 1000 points right out of the box - it's a pretty good deal for a starter set.

The first mission was giving one of my characters a bit of treasure and he had to grab it by the third battle round. Unfortunately for him, I was able to keep well out of range of his fairly slow-moving warriors. The second mission was more in his favor, objective-capturing. It was really touch-and-go, but I eked out a victory in the last round. We both had a lot of fun.

As a fan of reptiles, gladiators, and the color green, I think Splintered Fang will be my go-to warband. Their mobility matches my preferred play-style, and their native double ability (count the strength as higher than the opponents toughness until the end of the activation) came in useful against the Iron Golems on multiple occasions. That said, I'm interested in trying out my Corvus Cabal warband next time we play. On the whole they're a bit more fragile but a lot more maneuverable, so we'll see how it goes. His second warband is the Spire Tyrants, about which I know very little.

[Destro_Yersul]

That looks fantastic, Destro! I agree that the Tomb Kings were one of the best-looking armies. The bronze and blue play off each other really well - there's a lapis lazuli look to the cloak that I think fits in very well. Is the staff going to stay black?

Main body of the staff is staying black, but the snake on top, and the two snakes on her arms, are getting painted bright green. I've noticed that a lot of people paint them as coral snakes, probably for the vibrant pattern, but those are native to North America and it bothers me. So, green it is. All the Egyptian snakes are mottled brown, which wouldn't show up well against the bandages.

[PraetorDragoon]

Once again, bearing in mind that I have little knowledge of AoS outside Cities of Sigmar (I don't even know about Kharadons, and they're [allegedly] good now!), here's the results from CanCon, the one of the biggest AoS (singles) event in the world;

Chaos - 57 lists
Death - 46 lists
Destruction - 45 lists
Order - 76 lists

...With 26 dropouts. For a total of 280.

Largest showings are

Bonereapers (Petrifex) - 18
Skaventide - 13
Mawtribes (Bloodgullet) - 9
Seraphon - 8
Khorne (Reapers), Nurgle, Gloomspite Gitz and Cities (Hallowheart) - 7

For the 'Mode 5', that's surprisingly little - especially compared to the ****show that is Competitive 40K right now.

All Rounds take place in Ghyran.
1980 Points | +2 CPs.[/spoiler]

Petrifax
(G) Liege-Kavalos; Mighty Archaeossian, Godbone Armour
Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead

Kavalos Deathriders (x15); Blade & Shield
Kavalos Deathriders (x5); Blade & Shield
Kavalos Deathriders (x5); Blade & Shield

Endless Spells
Bone-Tithe Shrieker
Emerald Lifeswarm

2000 Points

I'm sure somebody's going to tell me that Deathriders are b0rked, and this list makes total sense?




The borked thing here is Petrifex Elite, the subfaction which gives +1 to saves armywide, +2 wounds to the general, ingore the first wound each turn as an artefact, and a Command Ability that gives -1 rend because somebody thought this was balanced? And yes, this means you can get 2+ save Nagash. Don't expect to see anything except Petrifex anywhere for the reapers. Unless they go for the Crematorians meme list.

[Requizen]

That's a pretty reasonable spread from CanCon. Petri-gash lists are good, but they do have their own set of issues (if you clear the units, Nagash can't out-score by himself, for example), so even that isn't completely borked. Petrifex giving +1 saves across the board is strong, but not unbeatable. It's strong because it's outside the main meta of the game, no one really list builds for 3+ chumps, but now everyone I talk to is discussing horde-killing spells or endless spells, or high amount of Rend-2 attacks to chew through them.

New Changehost is scary, but it's not unbeatable. Tzeentch units deal ok damage, but they're not tabling on turn 1 like other armies, and if you have good dispels their big abilities (Daemonfire Rift being the big one) can get shut down. Anything that can hunt down the Heroes should make pretty short work of the list, so #shootingmeta?



ION, 3 tournaments down with my Bonesplitterz after this weekend. 4-1, 4-1, 4-0-1 (technically 5-0, but counting one as a draw since it was a wacky narrative mission and not entirely indicative). Turns out, 90 bodies with 2 wounds and a shrug save will generally make anyone struggle to clear them off, and the Rogue Idol is just a punching powerhouse.

I talked with some people about using the Big Waaagh Allegiance instead of Bonesplitterz, though losing turn 1 Warpaint is pretty rough. I'm hoping to try it at a one-day before Adepticon to see if I want to swap it up, but it's a bit close at this point.

[9mm]

The borked thing here is Petrifex Elite, the subfaction which gives +1 to saves armywide, +2 wounds to the general, ingore the first wound each turn as an artefact, and a Command Ability that gives -1 rend because somebody thought this was balanced? And yes, this means you can get 2+ save Nagash. Don't expect to see anything except Petrifex anywhere for the reapers. Unless they go for the Crematorians meme list.

its funny because in between can con and now, Reapers, including petrifex, is now just a noobstomper gate keeper army. Petty much every meta army turns the +1 save into decrease rend by 1, and the trick behind Nagash+deathriders is out (protection of nagash is hilarious, ignore nagash); and since Bonereapers can do damn near nothing to Tzeench, you get to play dreamkiller and that is about it.

[LeSwordfish]

I'm currently deciding on my next army between Living City, Lumineth, and Seraphon, and although I obviously can't make too many guesses about the latter two, I'm drafting up some fun Living City lists. How does this look?

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Living City
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Spirit of Durthu (300)
- General
- Command Trait: Ironoak Artisan
- Artefact: Spear of the Hunt
Drycha Hamadreth (320)
Battlemage (90)
Battlemage (90)

Battleline
20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)
20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
- Halberds and Shields

Units
10 x Shadow Warriors (110)
10 x Shadow Warriors (110)
5 x Sisters of the Thorn (130)

Behemoths
Celestial Hurricanum (220)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Emerald Lifeswarm (50)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123


The basic mechanic is that Durthu and Drycha use the Hidden Paths ability to appear from a board edge, and can spend command points to shoot and charge. Durthu has +1 to wound, +1 save, and an extra -1 rend on his spear, meaning that his 3" charge allows him to go first and makes him an absolute combat monster. I can either castle the handgunners around the hurricanum for +1 to hit, or send them on the Hidden Paths - they can shoot to full effect after arriving, then move onto the newly vacated objective.

I've got 50 points left: I could swap a battlemage for more sisters of the thorn, or pick up some endless spells, or mount a wizard on the hurricanum and drop a battlemage for both a spell and some sisters.

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

Sorry I cannot comment on the list, LeSwordfish, I don't have the Cities book. I'll be picking up the new Seraphon battletome when it drops in stores, so perhaps it would be fun to workshop some lists together!

-----------

Yesterday our gaming group met and played Triumph and Treachery (the four-player variant) match of Warcry. It was myself and Tau!Friend, with whom I share the wargaming hobby, and two friends with whom we play board games but haven't gotten into miniatures (yet!). Tau!Friend and I each have two gangs, and so the games was Corvus Cabal (me), Splintered Fang, Spire Tyrants (Tau!Friend) and Iron Golems.

The mission was Number 6, where you score a point at the end of the round for holding the treasure. My secret objective was to clear the center, Splintered Fang was to keep his bloodmarked unit (one of the Venombloods) alive, Spire Tyrants was to kill all other warbands, and Iron Golems to secure the southwest sector of the board. Our deployment map was the first of the three, with Shields starting on the board, Daggers coming in turn two, and hammers turn three.

I don't know Iron Golems or Spire Tyrants well enough to say, but Splintered Fang shield was mostly Clearbloods, Serpent Caller, and the snake base, whereas mine was the Shadow Piercer, two Cabalists with Spear, and a Spire Stalker. My Shrike Talon and another Spire Stalker dropped turn two, and the rest of my Cabalists (with Familiar) dropped Turn 3. They ended up coming in very useful by the end of the game.

First turn was just getting everyone into position. Splintered Fang won the roll to pick up the treasure, but had deployed just out of range for a single movement action. First round, initiative went to Iron Golems.

At the end of the first round, both my Shadow Piercer and Spire Stalker were within 1 inch of the treasure box, as were one of the Splintered Fang's Clearbloods. My cabalists were hugging the center and poked ineffectually at the IG. On one side of the board, Spire Tyrants and Splintered Fang were getting into a tussle.

Round 2, Splintered Fang won initiative and I thought for sure I was cooked - but instead of grabbing the treasure he decided to lay into the Spire Tyrant's leader, getting him down to only 2 wounds. Well done, but that lost him the game. Spire Tyrants were next, and rather than move his Beastman to the treasure and grab the artifact, he activated his leader to put out some hurt before he was killed. IG went next, and having had to deploy on the opposite corner from the Splintered Fang, were the furthest from the treasure. So, despite activating last, I was able to pick up the treasure with my Shadow Piercer and burned two doubles to give her an extra inch of movement and ignore vertical movement, which let her get safely behind cover to the board edge. From there she was safe. The rest of the round was consumed in petty combats.

Last Round was tense, but my last cabalists came in in a way that let me deploy them around the terrain so that no one could reach my leader without becoming engaged. The Raven Familiar came in super useful - the Ogor Breacher was stuck in combat with the Shrike Talon, a Spire Stalker, and my leader, so I used a triple to not allow it to disengage and that left it unable to chase after my leader.

Splintered Fang was able to score his secret objective, but IG and I had accidentally goofed up each others. Tau!Friend's leader died first round, so he was out of luck there. Final score, 2:1:0:0 to my favor.

Well, I had a lot of fun, and so did everyone else. Spire Tyrants and Iron Golems are both very slow, and it was unfortunate that the two fastest warbands happened to be the closest to the treasure. I liked the narrative of the Corvus Cabal stealthing into a three-way brawl, stealing the treasure from out of their noses, and running away like the cowards they are, leaving the three martial warbands to hack it out.

Tau!Friend was frustrated with the Spire Tyrants' performance. We speculated that because they came out after the Monsters and Mercenaries book, they were meant to be allied in. I think they could have had a lot more luck if they had run the roll to set up the treasure, and he also picked one of the more difficult secret objectives.

Here's some photos from the game:
http://imgur.com/a/6GdOwtB
How great to Tau!Friend's Iron Golems and Spire Tyrants look?

Still really loving Warcry. It's a fun, and importantly quick, game, and has the kind of positioning challenges on a scale that is very accessible for new players, one of which had never played a wargame before (other than a five-way game of X-Wing three or four years ago).

If anyone's into it, I've started a Warcry painting log on DakkaDakka: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/786090.page Having some fun with the starter kit for Splintered Fang.

[Cheesegear]

I'm drafting up some fun Living City lists. How does this look?

20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)
20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)

Handgunners - or Crossbowmen - aren't really that good unless you've got the Freeguild General to go with them. Personally, I'd go with the ranged unit that doesn't need help; Darkshards.


10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
[I]- Halberds and Shields

Same, here.


10 x Shadow Warriors (110)
10 x Shadow Warriors (110)
5 x Sisters of the Thorn (130)

These are two top-tier choices in the book. I don't think you need two units of Shadow Warriors, one should be plenty. But, if your Handgunners aren't being mobile, I can see why you'd need two units.


Celestial Hurricanum (220)

No Battlemage? Sad. But it depends on the kinds of Battlemages you already have - since that isn't listed.


I've got 50 points left: I could swap a battlemage for more sisters of the thorn, or pick up some endless spells, or mount a wizard on the hurricanum and drop a battlemage for both a spell and some sisters.

I strongly think you should switch a Battlemage, to put one on the Hurricanum. You definitely don't need more Sisters of the Thorn. One unit is plenty.

EDIT: Speaking of, here's what I'm looking at.

Cities, Hallowheart, Aqshy
Battlemage on Griffon - 300 Points <WR>
Celestial Hurricanum with Celestial Battlemage - 280 Points <WR>
Luminark of Hysh with White Battlemage - 270 Points <WR>
Sorceress on Black Dragon - 300 Points <WR>

Darkshards (x10) - 100 Points
Darkshards (x10) - 100 Points
Darkshards (x10) - 100 Points

Sisters of the Thorn (x5) - 160 Points
Evocators on Celestial Dracolines (x3) - 360 Points (Stormcasts)

Whitefire Retinue - 140 Points
Emerald Lifeswarm - 50 Points
+1 CP - 50 Points

1940 Points

I'm sorely disappointed that I can't fit Shadow Warriors in the list.
I can't tell if this list will make me all the friends, or if I will hand out free wins.

[Requizen]

This discussion on Cities makes me realize there are a bunch of units in the book and I have little to no idea what most of them do. No one book needs like 5 units that are "shooty horde, but slightly different" haha :smalltongue:

I have spent some time with the allegiance abilities, and I think Hallowheart is like one of the most secret OP allegiances in the game. Insane casting in a book that has good troops and can ally with a bunch of good armies? Cheese, the only thing I'd change about your list is trying to get even more Endless Spells in, Purple Sun is solid now at 50 points and everyone taking hordes, for instance. Really buggers up OBR for one.



Here's some photos from the game:
http://imgur.com/a/6GdOwtB
How great to Tau!Friend's Iron Golems and Spire Tyrants look?

Still really loving Warcry. It's a fun, and importantly quick, game, and has the kind of positioning challenges on a scale that is very accessible for new players, one of which had never played a wargame before (other than a five-way game of X-Wing three or four years ago).

If anyone's into it, I've started a Warcry painting log on DakkaDakka: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/786090.page Having some fun with the starter kit for Splintered Fang.

Glad you're liking Warcry! At our local, it's one of the more popular games - less time to play than AoS and less cutthroat than Underworlds, makes it great for game night. Personally I like the other two more (I enjoy the complexity of both), but I still love Warcry enough to own all warbands and faction cards.

In fact, given that we're expecting our first kid, Warcry might actually jump above AoS in my hobby focus. Smaller warbands to build and paint, shorter games so I'm not out as much, and easy to play at home on the table or floor makes it much more viable than full AoS. I'm planning on going full hog and making a warband for each faction that has cards, which will be a great hobby goal and also a pretty light one overall.

[Cheesegear]

I have spent some time with the allegiance abilities, and I think Hallowheart is like one of the most secret OP allegiances in the game.

In the game? ...I wouldn't know. But it's definitely the best Allegiance in the book. And the great thing about Cities is how each Allegiance is pretty much an entirely new army. So you can run several competitive builds from the same book.


Cheese, the only thing I'd change about your list is trying to get even more Endless Spells in, Purple Sun is solid now at 50 points and everyone taking hordes

At 1940 Points, I'm real stupid. For some reason, when I was writing the list, I was like "I can only take one Endless Spell." I know that that's not true. But, I guess I brainfarted.

I'm real impressed with Celestial Dracolines. I wanted to pick up Astreia Solbright, too. Since she's Easy-to-Build and therefore cheap. But I went with the Sorceress on Dragon, instead. Especially since I'm running Darkshards and there's no reason not to run a Sorceress if you've got the Darkshards to fuel Endless Spells.

Sorceresses - on or off a Dragon - is one of the best units in the book. Rocking +3 to cast Endless Spells, that are always Empowered, very brutal.


Glad you're liking Warcry!

My meta is very much picking up WarCry. Basically, at this point, my meta is playing anything except 40K.
Kill Team and WarCry are massively picking up steam, whilst Age of Sigmar is really the only 'big' game that people play, now. Somehow, I don't think the nerf to Combat Doctrines was enough to dissuade people that Space Marines - any colour - aren't broken, like, in general.


In fact, given that we're expecting our first kid

Hooray!
I hope.

[Requizen]

I'm real impressed with Celestial Dracolines. I wanted to pick up Astreia Solbright, too. Since she's Easy-to-Build and therefore cheap. But I went with the Sorceress on Dragon, instead. Especially since I'm running Darkshards and there's no reason not to run a Sorceress if you've got the Darkshards to fuel Endless Spells.

Hm yeah, having a Hero to go with the Evocators boosts their power quite a bit. They're a reasonable hunting unit by themselves, but if you really invest and go Dracoline Hero + 6 Dracovators, you're looking at a power unit that will mess up anyone's day. But that's a significant rewrite of the list, of course.


Sorceresses - on or off a Dragon - is one of the best units in the book. Rocking +3 to cast Endless Spells, that are always Empowered, very brutal.

Endless Spells, and moreso when you can reliably cast them, have a very serious impact on the board, especially against opponents who are trying to push double turns. Throwing out a Purple Sun or Pendulum on bottom of 1, winning the roll off, and then choosing to not take the double in order to deal more damage is such a power move.


My meta is very much picking up WarCry. Basically, at this point, my meta is playing anything except 40K.
Kill Team and WarCry are massively picking up steam, whilst Age of Sigmar is really the only 'big' game that people play, now. Somehow, I don't think the nerf to Combat Doctrines was enough to dissuade people that Space Marines - any colour - aren't broken, like, in general.

Kill Team kind of died out around this area, it's mostly used like "Oh you're looking to get into 40k models? Here's a small scale game to play with them". Few people are playing it "competitively" or anything like that. I've used both it and Warcry as intro games for pen and paper or board game friends who are interested in miniatures to good effect.

I've seen a good number of people making the 40k -> AoS transition as well. 40k's shooting insanity, Stratagem bloat, and crazy competitive meta has turned a lot of people off. AoS can get competitive, but there are few armies in the game (if any, right now at least) that you roll up to and just feel helpless against, even if you're not netlisting.
I also think the heavier focus on movement, positioning, and melee has a better feel overall than just squatting an objective and playing rocket tag while your one deathstar unit runs around killing things, but that's a bit more personal preference on my part.


Hooray!
I hope.

Thanks! We're very excited, but my hobby time is crying in the corner. Hopefully I can at least get a couple hours per week to put down some paint or something.

[9mm]

[QUOTE=Requizen;24387522
I have spent some time with the allegiance abilities, and I think Hallowheart is like one of the most secret OP allegiances in the game.
[/QUOTE]

While its true most are focused on Tempest Eye, Hallowheart is damn good.


Good News: I finally beat a Tzeench list.
Bad News: dude wasn't playing the mission at all. :smallconfused:

But I know when Petrifex inevitably gets nerfed I can switch to the Lords easily.

[PraetorDragoon]

Handgunners - or Crossbowmen - aren't really that good unless you've got the Freeguild General to go with them. Personally, I'd go with the ranged unit that doesn't need help; Darkshards.



Same, here.



These are two top-tier choices in the book. I don't think you need two units of Shadow Warriors, one should be plenty. But, if your Handgunners aren't being mobile, I can see why you'd need two units.



No Battlemage? Sad. But it depends on the kinds of Battlemages you already have - since that isn't listed.



I strongly think you should switch a Battlemage, to put one on the Hurricanum. You definitely don't need more Sisters of the Thorn. One unit is plenty.

EDIT: Speaking of, here's what I'm looking at.

Cities, Hallowheart, Aqshy
Battlemage on Griffon - 300 Points <WR>
Celestial Hurricanum with Celestial Battlemage - 280 Points <WR>
Luminark of Hysh with White Battlemage - 270 Points <WR>
Sorceress on Black Dragon - 300 Points <WR>

Darkshards (x10) - 100 Points
Darkshards (x10) - 100 Points
Darkshards (x10) - 100 Points

Sisters of the Thorn (x5) - 160 Points
Evocators on Celestial Dracolines (x3) - 360 Points (Stormcasts)

Whitefire Retinue - 140 Points
Emerald Lifeswarm - 50 Points
+1 CP - 50 Points

1940 Points

I'm sorely disappointed that I can't fit Shadow Warriors in the list.
I can't tell if this list will make me all the friends, or if I will hand out free wins.

I quite like the list. How are the Evocators treating you? I kinda like the minis.

[LeSwordfish]

For what it's worth, I have a friend who regularly runs a block of six Evocators on Dracolines backed up by a Lord-Arcanum on Dracoline and does not rate them especially highly (though he uses them in an all-SCE list).

[Cheesegear]

I quite like the list. How are the Evocators treating you? I kinda like the minis.

As Requizen said, Dracolines are a phenomenally powerful unit, and I like monsters (unfortunately, in 40K, I play Marines, so I don't get the opportunity to field monsters...Ever.)

If I was playing Stormcasts, I'd be running a unit of 6, with a Hero. Not Solbright, but certainly her model, at least. Some people find them underwhemling. It depends on your opponents. Dracolines have a few bad match-ups. And a few good match-ups. So...Yeah. Dracolines, good or bad? Depends what you run 'em at.
(Dracolines are one of those very stupid, or very smart boxes, where if you make the Hero model using the box, you're left with two 'other' models - an illegal unit. In this particular instance, Solbright's model solves this issue, and she's EtB, so she's cheap to buy...Thanks, GW. I suppose. Wake me up when you make cheap Tyranid Alpha Warriors and Dawneagle Captains.)

Unfortunately, I'm playing Cities, so my Stormcast investiture has to be small. A unit of 3, does fine. Especially 'cause I've built my entire army around <Wizards> (the only thing that's missing from my list is a Stardrake :smallwink:). Considering all the other stuff that I regularly run (especially the Battlemage on Griffon), I've found that my opponent has other things to focus on than the Dracolines, which means they can nicely get stuck into my opponent's weaker units. Obviously there's also the Luminark churning out Mortal Wounds, which my opponents definitely don't like.

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

Glad you're liking Warcry! At our local, it's one of the more popular games - less time to play than AoS and less cutthroat than Underworlds, makes it great for game night. Personally I like the other two more (I enjoy the complexity of both), but I still love Warcry enough to own all warbands and faction cards.

In fact, given that we're expecting our first kid, Warcry might actually jump above AoS in my hobby focus. Smaller warbands to build and paint, shorter games so I'm not out as much, and easy to play at home on the table or floor makes it much more viable than full AoS. I'm planning on going full hog and making a warband for each faction that has cards, which will be a great hobby goal and also a pretty light one overall.

Another congratulations!

Which is your favorite Warband? Do you find that the AoS factions are balanced? It seems to me that players coming in would have more options for customization of a warband than one of the starter kits, and might make it easier to create a min-maxed list. What has been your experience playing with or against those factions?

One of the barriers of entry to Underworlds is that I'm not sure at any time what box and books I actually need to play it. Can I build a warband with my old lizardmen models, or would I have to buy one of the new warbands that have come out?

[Ornithologist]

One of the barriers of entry to Underworlds is that I'm not sure at any time what box and books I actually need to play it. Can I build a warband with my old lizardmen models, or would I have to buy one of the new warbands that have come out?

With Underworlds, you will need to grab a pre-made warband. The deck lists are customizable, the models themselves are not. Unless you are playing with some who already has it, you will have to pick up one of the large starter boxes. You will need the game boards to play on, and there are some good cards in there for you to mix in match with. You will also need the special dice, but you can pick them up separately if you done need the whole box otherwise.

Luckily the warbands come with enough cards to play with. If you have access to other players with dice and boards, then they are really all you need to play. They can also be used in AOS proper, though my understanding is that they range from meh, its okay to trash.

The real min-maxers will be buying every release so they can have the full card pool to choose from, but that way lies madness.

[Cheesegear]

The real min-maxers will be buying every release so they can have the full card pool to choose from, but that way lies madness misery.

Fixed that for you. It's why I quit Underworlds...And X-Wing.

[PraetorDragoon]

As Requizen said, Dracolines are a phenomenally powerful unit, and I like monsters (unfortunately, in 40K, I play Marines, so I don't get the opportunity to field monsters...Ever.)

If I was playing Stormcasts, I'd be running a unit of 6, with a Hero. Not Solbright, but certainly her model, at least. Some people find them underwhemling. It depends on your opponents. Dracolines have a few bad match-ups. And a few good match-ups. So...Yeah. Dracolines, good or bad? Depends what you run 'em at.
(Dracolines are one of those very stupid, or very smart boxes, where if you make the Hero model using the box, you're left with two 'other' models - an illegal unit. In this particular instance, Solbright's model solves this issue, and she's EtB, so she's cheap to buy...Thanks, GW. I suppose. Wake me up when you make cheap Tyranid Alpha Warriors and Dawneagle Captains.)

Unfortunately, I'm playing Cities, so my Stormcast investiture has to be small. A unit of 3, does fine. Especially 'cause I've built my entire army around <Wizards> (the only thing that's missing from my list is a Stardrake :smallwink:). Considering all the other stuff that I regularly run (especially the Battlemage on Griffon), I've found that my opponent has other things to focus on than the Dracolines, which means they can nicely get stuck into my opponent's weaker units. Obviously there's also the Luminark churning out Mortal Wounds, which my opponents definitely don't like.

Alright, so a decent unit whose usefuless depends on the matchup and the rest of the list. I can work with that. I was planning to run them in a cities list as well.

[Requizen]

Another congratulations!

Which is your favorite Warband? Do you find that the AoS factions are balanced? It seems to me that players coming in would have more options for customization of a warband than one of the starter kits, and might make it easier to create a min-maxed list. What has been your experience playing with or against those factions?

One of the barriers of entry to Underworlds is that I'm not sure at any time what box and books I actually need to play it. Can I build a warband with my old lizardmen models, or would I have to buy one of the new warbands that have come out?
Of the Warcry original warbands, I'm quite partial to the Corvus Cabal and the Cypher Lords.

AoS Warbands tend to be a bit stronger, partially for the reasons you say, partially because they often have better options. Most are fairly balanced, but some (notably FEC, Gloomspite, and recently people have been saying Sylvaneth) have a very high power curve. That said, depending on mission, there's no warbands that feel like they can't play the game, so play what you like imo. I've won with Cabal against "OP" factions, the game is heavily more about positioning and activation play than netlisting (though it's also a very dicey game).

With Underworlds, you will need to grab a pre-made warband. The deck lists are customizable, the models themselves are not. Unless you are playing with some who already has it, you will have to pick up one of the large starter boxes. You will need the game boards to play on, and there are some good cards in there for you to mix in match with. You will also need the special dice, but you can pick them up separately if you done need the whole box otherwise.

Luckily the warbands come with enough cards to play with. If you have access to other players with dice and boards, then they are really all you need to play. They can also be used in AOS proper, though my understanding is that they range from meh, its okay to trash.

The real min-maxers will be buying every release so they can have the full card pool to choose from, but that way lies madness.
Yes, Underworlds is its own beast and kind of requires you to commit to it. A starter box and one or two warbands will give you enough to have a nice, varied experience, and enough tools to play with multiple people. It's probably the best designed game GW has made from a gameplay experience in my opinion.

To get fully into it is expensive and ongoing, though. I think the game is good, balanced, and fun enough to be worth following...

Fixed that for you. It's why I quit Underworlds...And X-Wing.

...but clearly it's not for everyone :P

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

I'm not sure what support there is for Undworlds in my local shop, but our non-wargame friends were very interested in Warcry - the guy who was playing my Splintered Fang ended up going home and buying a learn to paint kit. There are Monday-night Warcry matches and I might check them out!

Your assessment that Warcry is mostly about positioning I have found to be accurate - but I do think the slower warbands are put at a bit of a disadvantage. That said... there was that moment where my Shadow Piercer, who was carrying the treasure, was tarpitted by the Ogor Breacher. I had to burn two doubles to make my escape. So the slower warbands definitely have some abilities that help them get where they need to be.

[Requizen]

I'm not sure what support there is for Undworlds in my local shop, but our non-wargame friends were very interested in Warcry - the guy who was playing my Splintered Fang ended up going home and buying a learn to paint kit. There are Monday-night Warcry matches and I might check them out!

Your assessment that Warcry is mostly about positioning I have found to be accurate - but I do think the slower warbands are put at a bit of a disadvantage. That said... there was that moment where my Shadow Piercer, who was carrying the treasure, was tarpitted by the Ogor Breacher. I had to burn two doubles to make my escape. So the slower warbands definitely have some abilities that help them get where they need to be.

Yeah, in a positional game, mobility is obviously key. Slow, beatstick warbands tend to perform better in missions that are about specific points on the field that you can just pile on, but a lot of missions involve picking up objectives, or marking one fighter, or getting across the board.

Matched Play missions have less silly/crazy missions, but the warbands with only move 3" dudes can suffer a bit.

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

Matched play is just those generated by the Victory cards, yes?

So one of the friends that played in the Triumph and Treachery game (Splintered Fang friend) just bought his first warband - the Nighthaunts. He bought the starter kit and three Spirit Hosts, which should put him in the position of having a lot of flexibility with his lists, more so than those of us using the Warcry-specific factions. It will be nice to have some variety - but there is a part of me that doesn't quite feel like AoS factions really need to be in Warcry. It would kind of be like Space Marines showing up in Necromunda.

Perhaps the better analogy is to compare Warcry to Kill Team? But then why make any custom factions at all? Ah well. Let's see what playing against spooky ghosts is like. I'm excited to be getting more friends into wargaming!

[Cheesegear]

It will be nice to have some variety - but there is a part of me that doesn't quite feel like AoS factions really need to be in Warcry.

They absolutely don't, and in most cases, the other Factions actually ruin WarCry.

But:
a) New Factions, and GW doesn't even have to make new models, and
b) More people can get into WarCry without buying 'exclusive' models they can't use in any other game.

[LeSwordfish]

Warcry has a strong narrative underpinning but its sensible enough to go "sure, there can be seraphon here too, why not? fun for everyone!"

[Destro_Yersul]

They absolutely don't, and in most cases, the other Factions actually ruin WarCry.

But:
a) New Factions, and GW doesn't even have to make new models, and
b) More people can get into WarCry without buying 'exclusive' models they can't use in any other game.

To be fair, apparently all the Warcry warbands fit into the new Slaves to Darkness book.

[Cheesegear]

To be fair, apparently all the Warcry warbands fit into the new Slaves to Darkness book.

Correct. That's all well and good. But what if you don't play and/or don't want to play Slaves to Darkness?

But saying that is like saying you can use Necromunda models as Guardsmen and/or Cultists (on 32mm bases 'cause you hate yourself). That's fine. But what if, say, you play Necrons? How does that help?
That's where Kill Team comes in.

That's at least something Underworlds does correctly. Every Warband fits in their respective Faction. If the Warband in AoS sucks, just sub the Warband models in for real models, it's still the same Faction, and it's still more-or-less the same models.

[Requizen]

Matched play is just those generated by the Victory cards, yes

There's a specific Matched Play section in the rulebook, with 12 Mission + Deployment setups. It uses specific missions and deployments that are symmetrical, rather than extremely one-sided "narrative" ones. You still draw for terrain and twist cards, but you can remove the terrain cards that don't have the "Symmertrical" runemark for even further balance.


So one of the friends that played in the Triumph and Treachery game (Splintered Fang friend) just bought his first warband - the Nighthaunts. He bought the starter kit and three Spirit Hosts, which should put him in the position of having a lot of flexibility with his lists, more so than those of us using the Warcry-specific factions. It will be nice to have some variety - but there is a part of me that doesn't quite feel like AoS factions really need to be in Warcry. It would kind of be like Space Marines showing up in Necromunda.

Perhaps the better analogy is to compare Warcry to Kill Team? But then why make any custom factions at all? Ah well. Let's see what playing against spooky ghosts is like. I'm excited to be getting more friends into wargaming!

Warcry Core is Necromunda. Warcry + AoS warbands + M&M is Kill Team.
...kinda.

It's Necromunda in that it's a distinct system that doesn't play like AoS, and has a unique aesthetic that fits in the universe but is still its own thing.

It's Kill Team in that, like Cheese said, it's a game that lets you use your "big army" minis in a smaller game, or an excuse to get minis you wouldn't buy for a full army but you want (definitely not me, no sir).

From a business side of things, it's bait to trap people into buying a full army, and also more purchases from people that already play AoS. From a design side of things, it's a way to get more mileage out of your minis and get some gameplay variety.


I don't find much issue in having the cultists alongside the "main army" factions. It's thematic for the setting in my mind. Unmade are from Shyish, so the chances that their Chaos-worshipping cult came into a clash with servants of Nagash trying to drive the Chaos Gods from their lands is pretty likely. Stormcast seem out of scale and place comparatively, but in many books there have been small teams of Stormcast doing exactly this type of stuff, and imo the gap between Humans :: Stormcast is not as drastic as Guardsman :: Space Marine.

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

There's a specific Matched Play section in the rulebook, with 12 Mission + Deployment setups. It uses specific missions and deployments that are symmetrical, rather than extremely one-sided "narrative" ones. You still draw for terrain and twist cards, but you can remove the terrain cards that don't have the "Symmertrical" runemark for even further balance.

Ah, gotcha. I lent my Rulebook out and didn't have it on hand. That'll probably make a big difference!



Warcry Core is Necromunda. Warcry + AoS warbands + M&M is Kill Team.
...kinda.

It's Necromunda in that it's a distinct system that doesn't play like AoS, and has a unique aesthetic that fits in the universe but is still its own thing.

It's Kill Team in that, like Cheese said, it's a game that lets you use your "big army" minis in a smaller game, or an excuse to get minis you wouldn't buy for a full army but you want (definitely not me, no sir).

From a business side of things, it's bait to trap people into buying a full army, and also more purchases from people that already play AoS. From a design side of things, it's a way to get more mileage out of your minis and get some gameplay variety.


I don't find much issue in having the cultists alongside the "main army" factions. It's thematic for the setting in my mind. Unmade are from Shyish, so the chances that their Chaos-worshipping cult came into a clash with servants of Nagash trying to drive the Chaos Gods from their lands is pretty likely. Stormcast seem out of scale and place comparatively, but in many books there have been small teams of Stormcast doing exactly this type of stuff, and imo the gap between Humans :: Stormcast is not as drastic as Guardsman :: Space Marine.

Everything that's been said makes sense. Very reasonable humans all around. I think for me I'm reacting negatively because I'm still softly skeptical of AoS as a setting, and reading through the rulebook I was excited to have a concrete setting to develop in the Ravaged Lands. There were swamps, mountain ranges, little hidey holes for each of the warbands, oh joy! Kind of like the Underhive, I wanted a little grittier, more grounded approach that developed civilian life a little bit - the Cypher Lords are a great example, giving us a hint at a dark mirror of high society in the realm of life, or the Splintered Fang's distorted martial tradition.

But the Mortal Realms are the setting of AoS, and Warhammer Fantasy has always had a more fluid meeting of the races than 40k, so this is hardly new. I just liked the new warbands because they were different, and the quality of the sculpts was fantastic - always in motion, very dynamic.

Anyway, I'm not really saying anything that hasn't already been said. As far as the game itself, we've all had a lot of fun playing it. I'm a bit wary of the Nighthaunts joining the fray, given that they all can ignore terrain (makes sense, ghosts, but I was hoping they might have to burn a double to do it or something - nope, just give them fly) and their quad is brutal (deal damage equal to this ability to all enemy fighters within 3"). We'll probably schedule a game for sometime next week. Excited to report back.

[Requizen]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/10/revealed-at-gamagw-homepage-post-3fw-homepage-post-4/

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/10161e29.jpg


Yay more Underworlds! I like these a lot more than the Ironjawz personally, if nothing else than that they're more varied models. I always feel like Orruks end up all looking the same, at least here you have 4 distinct units represented. And that Hag Queen is amazing looking.

I don't really have much to say about the Pointy Aelves. I like the classic aesthetic, but I won't be buying them at this time for a variety of reasons (unless they get a Warcry Warband, naturally). The triple bowstrings look a little silly (and a headache to paint), but the Heroes are cool imo.

[Destro_Yersul]

Yeah, those are some nice minis. I kinda want them just to paint, but I have so many other things.

[9mm]

I feel sorry for whoever is learning to magnetize the first time building that new Aelf caster though. Jeebus, GW I've nearly had to pin down the Bladeghiests I'm currently making.

[Artemis97]

The Mountain Mage, all balanced on her rock? Beautiful model, but looks like a pain to put together.

Those daughters of Khaine models look good. I kind of like the bald one with the mask and the whip. She looks especially blood thirsty. I love how voluminous the others' hair is too.

[PraetorDragoon]

The mountain mage looks like it will fall over if you look at it funnily.

I do like the DoK band. It looks nice.

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

Well I just stocked up on some provisions for the next two weeks of social distancing, by which I mean I just bought myself the new Seraphon Battletome, the Realmgate Engine, and the Skink box. Not entirely sure how soon I'll get to them, because I've still got to finish painting my Warcry warbands, but I'm happy to have something to rotate to and from - between Warcry, Chaos Marines, and Seraphon, I hope I'll be able to keep myself from getting burnt out on any particular color.

I think I can safely put Blackstone Fortress on hold, anyway - my gaming group has switched to online platforms.

[NeoVid]

Random lore question I've had since learning the basics of Age of Sigmar: The Great Horned Rat has become a widely known god, considered one of the Chaos pantheon, right? Does he have any non-Skaven followers these days? The rest of Chaos works hard to get their claws/tentacles/pseudopods into anyone vulnerable to their temptations, and now that the GHR's no secret, there have to be some cultists crazy enough to be interested in what he has to offer... whatever that is.

And a related question I hadn't thought of until now, are there any Skaven breakaways from the GHR? I've never seen the attraction of serving the GHR, even for the Skaven, they just didn't have any other option in the old version of the setting. I can honestly see the Skaven being better off serving Tzeench or Nurgle.



I do like the DoK band. It looks nice.

Yknow, when I first saw DoK, my thought was "Daughters of Khorne" which... would be a freaking amazing idea for a minor faction. Now I'm a bit disappointed we don't have one like that.

[PraetorDragoon]

While I haven't heard of anything official regarding non-skaven Great Horned Rat followers, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to have some human/elf/dwarf worshippers somewhere in the realms. Remember that the vast majority of Chaos worshippers are like the warcry tribes, who don't worship a specific god or aspect, but are more worshippers in general or followers of a local powerful daemon. And some might not even be really aware they worship chaos.

Skaven are cowards, and the Great Horned Rat terrifies them. Therefore they follow him, and he uses his Grey Seers/Verminlords to enforce "loyality".

[Fyraltari]

Random lore question I've had since learning the basics of Age of Sigmar: The Great Horned Rat has become a widely known god, considered one of the Chaos pantheon, right? Does he have any non-Skaven followers these days? The rest of Chaos works hard to get their claws/tentacles/pseudopods into anyone vulnerable to their temptations, and now that the GHR's no secret, there have to be some cultists crazy enough to be interested in what he has to offer... whatever that is.

And a related question I hadn't thought of until now, are there any Skaven breakaways from the GHR? I've never seen the attraction of serving the GHR, even for the Skaven, they just didn't have any other option in the old version of the setting. I can honestly see the Skaven being better off serving Tzeench or Nurgle.


The Horned Rat used to have human followers (https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Cult_of_the_Yellow_Fang) in the world-that-was, at least. And I think, some Pestilens skaven worship Papa Nurgle instead of the Great Horned Rat, but I'm not sure.

[Requizen]

Hm, AFAIK there aren't currently any mortal Great Horned Rat followers, but that's not indicative of the lore, so there realistically could be. On the other hand, given that Skaven can't ally with anything in Chaos at all, it seems at least very uncommon.

Though do keep in mind that most mortals, including those that are actually "chaos worshippers" don't know about the gods at all. Warcry makes a point that the warbands don't know the Chaos Gods by name, but more worship their aspects. Likely there are some mortals that worship the idea of cowardice, pestilence, and/or underhandedness, which is somewhat split between Nurgle/Tzeentch and GHR.


Well I just stocked up on some provisions for the next two weeks of social distancing, by which I mean I just bought myself the new Seraphon Battletome, the Realmgate Engine, and the Skink box. Not entirely sure how soon I'll get to them, because I've still got to finish painting my Warcry warbands, but I'm happy to have something to rotate to and from - between Warcry, Chaos Marines, and Seraphon, I hope I'll be able to keep myself from getting burnt out on any particular color.

I think I can safely put Blackstone Fortress on hold, anyway - my gaming group has switched to online platforms.

I got myself a Necromancer and Grave Guard to go with my Sepulchral Guard, easy start Legions of Nagash Warband. Also won some basic Ogors, which can go with Hrothgorn for a reasonable Mawtribes Warband. Should have plenty to build and paint, but since I'm work from home anyways, it's not like I'll have much extra time :smalltongue:

[PraetorDragoon]

The Horned Rat used to have human followers (https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Cult_of_the_Yellow_Fang) in the world-that-was, at least. And I think, some Pestilens skaven worship Papa Nurgle instead of the Great Horned Rat, but I'm not sure.

Pestilens still worship The Great Horned Rat, they just find common ground in filthy diseases. Nurgle is more about the cycle of life and rebirth, while Pestilens are using disease to kill everyone. A small detail.

Its why Pestilens can ally in some Nurgle.

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

I got myself a Necromancer and Grave Guard to go with my Sepulchral Guard, easy start Legions of Nagash Warband. Also won some basic Ogors, which can go with Hrothgorn for a reasonable Mawtribes Warband. Should have plenty to build and paint, but since I'm work from home anyways, it's not like I'll have much extra time :smalltongue:

Nice! Sound like some fun hobby projects. Post pictures if you get a chance!

I broke quarantine yesterday for a few games of Warcry with a friend. He ended up going with Nighthaunt for his warband, which suits his tastes in baddies pretty well. I brought Splintered Fang. We each won a game - his win was a game of keep-away, and mine was on objective control. We weren't able to try out the matched play missions from the core book because I had lent it to another friend, and it'll probably be a while before I get it back! So again the wins played the strengths of the particular warband. But we had fun. Warcry goes so fast that no loss is particularly crushing, and we tried different warband rosters each time. Despite losing with it the first time around, my preferred list was 3 x Serpent Bases, 1 x Serpent Caller, 1 x Trueblood, 2 x Venomblood with Shield and Spear, 3 x Clearblood with shield, 1000 pts exactly.

Nighthaunt has excellent mobility, all of them have Fly to ignore terrain and they have at least a 5 inch movement. But their main strength is their toughness, which is usually 5 or higher. That said, they have low strength and, except for my serpents, all of my units had toughness 4 or higher. That meant both of us were hitting on 5s - except that SF universal ability is to hit on 3s. This really tipped the balance in my favor, especially when we were scrapping it out over the objectives. Having multiple serpent bases is nasty, throwing five die that wound on 3s. I suppose they were using their special ghost venom, which is venom that they use for ghosts.

[Cheesegear]

So, with my FLGS kicking everyone out, looks like I'm going to be spending a lot of time at home, and not playing games.

My hobby projects:
War Hydra; I'm thinking purple scales with pink underbelly. Or I could just do dark purple and brighter purple, maybe that's better.

Ogre Tyrant

Commission Projects:
Mollag

Fomoroid Crusher


I broke quarantine yesterday...

You broke quarantine?
...Or you broke isolation distancing?

[Eldan]

He probably means distancing. As far as I know, Americans aren't under enforced quarantine yet.

[PraetorDragoon]

So, with my FLGS kicking everyone out, looks like I'm going to be spending a lot of time at home, and not playing games.

My hobby projects:
War Hydra; I'm thinking purple scales with pink underbelly. Or I could just do dark purple and brighter purple, maybe that's better.

Ogre Tyrant

Commission Projects:
Mollag

Fomoroid Crusher


How is the Fomoroid Crusher? I do like the looks of that fellow.

[Requizen]

So, with my FLGS kicking everyone out, looks like I'm going to be spending a lot of time at home, and not playing games.

My hobby projects:
War Hydra; I'm thinking purple scales with pink underbelly. Or I could just do dark purple and brighter purple, maybe that's better.

Ogre Tyrant

Commission Projects:
Mollag

Fomoroid Crusher
I think two-tone purple will give a more natural effect, unless it's a really desaturated pink. Though you could probably make either work.


He probably means distancing. As far as I know, Americans aren't under enforced quarantine yet.
Certain areas are in "Shelter In Place", which is closer to lockdown than self-quarantine. Estimates is that it'll get more strict before it gets less.


This is great game
Glad you think so! What do you play, how long have you been playing?

How is the Fomoroid Crusher? I do like the looks of that fellow.
He's... alright. 2 Attacks is meh, his double and quad are alright but situational. Good defense, good triple, good damage (though again, only 2 dice). I think the Sphiranx is by far the stronger of the two new additions to Allies.

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

You broke quarantine?
...Or you broke isolation distancing?


He probably means distancing. As far as I know, Americans aren't under enforced quarantine yet.

It's a joke, friends! :smallwink: Nobody was harmed in the course of our game.


He's... alright. 2 Attacks is meh, his double and quad are alright but situational. Good defense, good triple, good damage (though again, only 2 dice). I think the Sphiranx is by far the stronger of the two new additions to Allies.

I really love the Sphiranx model, and he's got some really impressive control powers. What does his Quad do? It's covered up on the Online Store.

That said, 240 points is not nothing - does he fit in better with your Cypher Lords or Corvus Cabal? What do you end up leaving out to squeeze him in, and do you think he takes up the slack for his points?

[PraetorDragoon]

Figured that the warcry monster I like the most was the lesser interesting one.:smallconfused:

On a non-warcy Hydra note, I was thinking of running a Hydra/Kharybdyss heavy Anvilgard army. Probably not very good, but what are good picks to include there?

[Requizen]

I really love the Sphiranx model, and he's got some really impressive control powers. What does his Quad do? It's covered up on the Online Store.

That said, 240 points is not nothing - does he fit in better with your Cypher Lords or Corvus Cabal? What do you end up leaving out to squeeze him in, and do you think he takes up the slack for his points?
The quad is insane - pick an enemy within a number of inches equal to the value of the Ability. It can't activate this turn. Being able to turn off a fighter for no dice roll is nuts, and the cat isn't bad in combt anyways.

I could see using the Crusher in Cabal, where I have a lot of little chumps to run around with, but I don't see a huge amount of "need" for either in a list. Both have uses, whether you'd like a tanky beatstick or a tricky cat.

Figured that the warcry monster I like the most was the lesser interesting one.:smallconfused:

On a non-warcy Hydra note, I was thinking of running a Hydra/Kharybdyss heavy Anvilgard army. Probably not very good, but what are good picks to include there?

A Kharibdyss can make a reasonable horde-killer with the -2 bravery Bloodline and it's own innate horde clearing, but most blobs have ways to ignore or reduce bravery tests anyways. The Hydra is fine as a nice little deathball, not as much as a Dragon but reasonable for the points. Anvilgard is clearly the best if you're going to take one, though, might as well get impact hits on a 2+.

[Cheesegear]

It's a joke, friends! :smallwink: Nobody was harmed in the course of our game.

Oh good.
An an ex-medical personnel who worked on wards:
You isolate someone who is vulnerable.
You quarantine someone who is a (potential) danger to others.

Breaking quarantine is a huge deal. :smalltongue:


I think two-tone purple will give a more natural effect, unless it's a really desaturated pink. Though you could probably make either work.

If you've got the App, my plan was:
Genestealer Cults Flesh for the underbelly,
and Mulberry for the scales.


On a non-warcy Hydra note, I was thinking of running a Hydra/Kharybdyss heavy Anvilgard army. Probably not very good, but what are good picks to include there?

My friend is doing that exact thing.
As always, 'big Monsters as Battleline' sounds fun, but it means you end up with an army with like, ten models in it, so you can't really hold Objectives (Remember those, 40K? The things that make the game interesting?).

Due to Anvilgard being Anvilgard, you want to go Aelf-heavy...Almost mono-race, and, really, it's the only City that really wants to. I've said it before and I'll say it again; Sorceresses are one of the best models in the book, with bonuses to cast Empowered Endless Spells, that's what you're gonna run. You also need to fuel your Sorceresses. The best and cheapest unit for this job, are Darkshards. 'Sorceress and Darkshards' are an auto-include for most Cities' lists, but in Anvilgard, it's especially so.

Dragons are way better than Hydras or Kharybdiss. So I strongly suggest at least one. Sorceress or Dreadlord. Doesn't matter. Both are strong.
Drakespawn Knights are 'pretty good'.
Scourgerunner Chariots wreck face, especially if you've got a lot of them.

The SC! Anvilguard box would be really strong if it didn't have Scourge Privateers in it. Still, if you're buying a Hydra (the SC! box doesn't give you instructions to build it, but you can work it out easily enough) and a Scourgerunner Chariot anyway, you may as well pick up a box of Privateers and a Fleetmaster for like, $10.

:smallsigh:

Depending on the amount of Shooting you have, you may want to invest in a Knight-Azyros.

[PraetorDragoon]

I have a sorceress and some crossbow elves (the old plastics, still serviceable) So I was thinking of including those anyway.

Drakespawn knights are good? That is interesting to me, I thought they were medicore. I guess their price drop helped?

[LeSwordfish]

The SC! Anvilguard box would be really strong if it didn't have Scourge Privateers in it. Still, if you're buying a Hydra (the SC! box doesn't give you instructions to build it, but you can work it out easily enough) and a Scourgerunner Chariot anyway, you may as well pick up a box of Privateers and a Fleetmaster for like, $10.

I wonder if, with some third-party crossbows from somewhere, you could convert the privateers to darkshards?

[Cheesegear]

Drakespawn knights are good? That is interesting to me, I thought they were medicore. I guess their price drop helped?

Going back to my notes...No. They're not good. I just thought they were good 'cause I saw a list with a butt-ton of them. But in reality, what drove the list was triple Dragons. Derp. It doesn't matter what your Battleline is if you're running three Dragons with Empowered Emerald Lifeswarm. :smalltongue:
No. Drakespawn Knights are fairly bad. The only thing they have going for them is their 3+ Save, but lots of Heavy Cav. would have that.

My bad.


I wonder if, with some third-party crossbows from somewhere, you could convert the privateers to darkshards?

If you found the right bits, why not? Those Sea Dragon Cloaks are dope.

I've seen somebody try and claim that the (optional) Hand Crossbows, count as Repeater Crossbows. But I absolutely see why some people wouldn't accept that, especially given how effective Darkshards can be.

[PraetorDragoon]

That reminds me I do have some crossbow bits leftover, as I do have some dark elf spearmen build. Guess I should try to dig those up.


Going back to my notes...No. They're not good. I just thought they were good 'cause I saw a list with a butt-ton of them. But in reality, what drove the list was triple Dragons. Derp. It doesn't matter what your Battleline is if you're running three Dragons with Empowered Emerald Lifeswarm. :smalltongue:
No. Drakespawn Knights are fairly bad. The only thing they have going for them is their 3+ Save, but lots of Heavy Cav. would have that.

My bad.

Ah, the goode olde classic. :smallbiggrin:

Dragon Dreadlord with 5+ fnp cloak and Empowered Emerald Lifeswarm does sound good though...

[Cheesegear]

Colour basecoat.

https://i.imgur.com/dLRnuUm.jpg

Hindsight being 20/20, I absolutely would not have put this thing together before painting it.
I'm also very glad that Anvilgard is not my City of choice, so I wont ever be required to paint more than one of these, because this Hydra is for DND.

[Requizen]

Colour basecoat.

https://i.imgur.com/dLRnuUm.jpg

Hindsight being 20/20, I absolutely would not have put this thing together before painting it.
I'm also very glad that Anvilgard is not my City of choice, so I wont ever be required to paint more than one of these, because this Hydra is for DND.

Colors look good! I always regret building before painting, but I always do it anyways because I play a bunch more than I paint. Maybe if I was more rigorous about hobby that wouldn't be as much of a problem...

[Cheesegear]

Colors look good!

According to the app, I'm gonna end up drybrushing the flesh with Slaanesh Grey, and the scales the normal purple; Xereus and Genestealer.
I'm not sure Slaanesh Grey is the way to go, but I definitely don't want it more pink than it already is...So maybe a really dull purple actually is the right choice. Maybe the App is right? ...Who could've guessed.


but I always do it anyways because I play a bunch more than I paint.

But that's the joke. Due to COVID my FLGS wont let us play games in store anymore. Which means, more or less, that I wont play any games except maybe Kill Team in my own house. I'm in the process of trying to organise a Kill Team day at my house, with sausages and burgers. But we'll see. Hopefully some of my mates have portable tables they can bring.

There was no reason for me to put the Hydra together straight out of the box. Except, y'know...It's big and pretty, and I want to see it!
I dun goof'd.

[Cheesegear]

https://i.imgur.com/r4lFpM9.jpg

Now with drybrushing!
...**** I hate drybrushing.

[Requizen]

https://i.imgur.com/r4lFpM9.jpg

Now with drybrushing!
...**** I hate drybrushing.

I think the colors really smoothed out with it, looking pretty psychedelic.

[PraetorDragoon]

I like the purple and pink combination.

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

Looks great, Cheese! I agree that it's smoothed out a bit and looks more naturalistic, effectively grounding a fantasy creature. Which app are you using?

[Requizen]

Looks great, Cheese! I agree that it's smoothed out a bit and looks more naturalistic, effectively grounding a fantasy creature. Which app are you using?

GW has an official paint app, which is actually quite good for paint schemes (providing you use all Citadel paints, of course)

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

Oh, cool! I found it on the store. I'll try it on out. :smallsmile:

[Cheesegear]

I think the colors really smoothed out with it, looking pretty psychedelic.

The more I look at it, the more I realised that I've just painted Slaanesh colours.


Looks great, Cheese! I agree that it's smoothed out a bit and looks more naturalistic

I was originally going to paint the fins yellow, for a contrast colour. But now you've gone and made me want to make it 'natural'

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/44/8f/6b/448f6b55ae995cd1431e0ee16aecad47.jpg

Maybe I'll end up painting it like my Tyranids (which are also purple), I guess.

[PraetorDragoon]

Which australian animals aren't agressive? :smallbiggrin:

In old world news: Kislev! https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/23/the-old-world-ice-guard-of-kislevgw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-2/

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

Nothing wrong with purple! It's the color of nobility for a reason.

The Kislev updates are pretty fun - I like the character design, although the ice weapons look very high-fantasy to me. I was never that up on Old World lore (the only books I read were the first six Gotrek and Felix, which I really enjoyed, and the fluff in my brother's, friends, and my army books), but what I loved was the low-fantasy, footslogging element of Fantasy Battles. Even with the more fantastical races like Lizardmen and Ogres there was a griminess to the whole thing that still worked for me - all the rust on the Ogre's weapons and their one arm covered in blood, for example. But it's way to early to start forming opinions, I suppose. I imagine they're going to a have a few of these character design posts every couple months to keep us interested but that actual miniatures and game itself are years away, yet.

[Saambell]

Just recently placed an online order for a pile of Daughters of Khaine, so I could stay in and avoid stores. My planned list is for a 1000 point army, but its a good start I hope.


Bloodwrack Medusa
Slaughter Queen
10 Witch Aelves
10 Witch Aelves
5 Blood Stalkers
20 Heartrenders


Don't know how they are doing lately, but I'm mostly just going to be playing with Seraphon, a bit of LoN, and maybe eventually some Warclans or Mawtribes. So I'm hoping it all goes well. This is mostly just going to be off Battlescribe lists and the free rules. Don't yet have the Generals Handbook, but I figure I can probably find the missions online.

[PraetorDragoon]

Just recently placed an online order for a pile of Daughters of Khaine, so I could stay in and avoid stores. My planned list is for a 1000 point army, but its a good start I hope.


Bloodwrack Medusa
Slaughter Queen
10 Witch Aelves
10 Witch Aelves
5 Blood Stalkers
20 Heartrenders


Don't know how they are doing lately, but I'm mostly just going to be playing with Seraphon, a bit of LoN, and maybe eventually some Warclans or Mawtribes. So I'm hoping it all goes well. This is mostly just going to be off Battlescribe lists and the free rules. Don't yet have the Generals Handbook, but I figure I can probably find the missions online.

As much as I love the look of Blood Stalkers, they just aren't great. Blood Sisters on the other hand are good. (the melee snakes in case names confuse you). The heartrenders are better off split, as you will be setting them up during the game to pelt a specific hero with spears. Mages and other support choices are prime targets. Not sure if a 20-girl block helps here.

Slaughter Queen you want on a Shrine. Shrine is a very useful support/combat unit, as it gives +1 to saves and the statue can be animated (and will be animated turn 3+ with the allegiance abilities) for more damage output.

I would do this

Leaders
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (300)
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- General

Battleline
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
20 x Witch Aelves (240)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives

Units
10 x Khinerai Heartrenders (180)


Bloodwrack Medusa makes Blood Sisters battleline. Hag Queen gives either the snakes or elves witchbrew for buffs, Medusa buffs the same unit with the -1 rend spell (and +1 damage if you have higher bravery. Remember that the statue on the Cauldron gives +1 bravery). Hag Queen gets the Murder prayer that gives 6s to hit double hits. Heartrenders deepstrike in the back to pick out some support target or annoying foe.

Witch Aelves can also be split in 2x10 but I'm not sure how useful splitting them up is. Might be more useful in spreading threats and screening. Mathwise, bucklers are slightly better than double knives, as you get more survivability with the +1 to saves, and a slight chance at dealing mortals on 6s to save (before modifiers such as rend) Sisters of Slaughter can also be ran but I haven't used those yet, but they are interesting.

Bookwise I recommend the small rulebook over the Generals Handbook. Points are online, GHB gets a new version each year, and the small book has more missions and also contains realm rules, realm artefacts/spells and generic allegiances in a easier to carry package. Battletome: Daughters of Khaine is important for allegiance rules (spells, artefacts, prayers, etc.)

[Requizen]

As much as I love the look of Blood Stalkers, they just aren't great. Blood Sisters on the other hand are good. (the melee snakes in case names confuse you). The heartrenders are better off split, as you will be setting them up during the game to pelt a specific hero with spears. Mages and other support choices are prime targets. Not sure if a 20-girl block helps here.

Slaughter Queen you want on a Shrine. Shrine is a very useful support/combat unit, as it gives +1 to saves and the statue can be animated (and will be animated turn 3+ with the allegiance abilities) for more damage output.

I would do this

Leaders
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (300)
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- General

Battleline
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
20 x Witch Aelves (240)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives

Units
10 x Khinerai Heartrenders (180)


Bloodwrack Medusa makes Blood Sisters battleline. Hag Queen gives either the snakes or elves witchbrew for buffs, Medusa buffs the same unit with the -1 rend spell (and +1 damage if you have higher bravery. Remember that the statue on the Cauldron gives +1 bravery). Hag Queen gets the Murder prayer that gives 6s to hit double hits. Heartrenders deepstrike in the back to pick out some support target or annoying foe.

Witch Aelves can also be split in 2x10 but I'm not sure how useful splitting them up is. Might be more useful in spreading threats and screening. Mathwise, bucklers are slightly better than double knives, as you get more survivability with the +1 to saves, and a slight chance at dealing mortals on 6s to save (before modifiers such as rend) Sisters of Slaughter can also be ran but I haven't used those yet, but they are interesting.

Bookwise I recommend the small rulebook over the Generals Handbook. Points are online, GHB gets a new version each year, and the small book has more missions and also contains realm rules, realm artefacts/spells and generic allegiances in a easier to carry package. Battletome: Daughters of Khaine is important for allegiance rules (spells, artefacts, prayers, etc.)

This is all good advice. DoK are notoriously hard to start because a "good" list has an absurd amount of Witch Aelves or Sneks, neither of which are cheap. But, this is a reasonable way to run them on a more manageable budget.

[PraetorDragoon]

This is all good advice. DoK are notoriously hard to start because a "good" list has an absurd amount of Witch Aelves or Sneks, neither of which are cheap. But, this is a reasonable way to run them on a more manageable budget.

Yup. For 2k you want at least one unit of Witch Elves/Sisters of Slaughter at 30 strong, which isn't that fun considering that those 10-elf boxes are quite pricy.

[Saambell]

Unfortunately I am already committed to 20 of the winged aelves, and the version of Battlescribe I had when I placed the order was missing the bit of code to make Blood Sisters battleline. I really don't like the shine model, but if its so good, I might have to grit my teeth and build it. I updated Battlescribe this morning and its fixed the missing code, so I can very much fix the Witch Aelves into a big mob of 20 and take Blood Sisters over Blood Stalkers. But I'm stuck with the 20 winged models, so if I'm avoiding the shrine, given I already stole the Khaine statue to use as an Avatar on its own base, I might as well instead use the Heartrenders in 2 units of 10. Later additions to the army will be a final box of Witches for a mob of 30, and a few more snakes. Snakes and Harpies are the two main model reasons I chose DoK, so as long as both are usable I'm fine with saving up for them. I really do like the Blood Stalkers though, is there any way to run/support them, or a particular foe they can actually work against, if I get the chance to try to counter list? And are Lifetakers worth it at all, in case I want to split those 20 winged models into two units of 10 or I actually do build the shrine?

Order is still in the mail, so I got time to still work the list. Once it arrives, I will have 2 boxes of Witch Aelves, 4 boxes of Khinerai, 1 box of Melusai, as well as the shrine. The Hag Queen, Slaughter Queen, and Medusa are all already built. So is the Avatar, so I hope the Shrine is workable without the statue attached or able to have the statue on a base ride on the back. Didn't order the book, was going to be relying on Battlescribe to start, but it will eventually be picked up. Might add it to the order that will flesh out the Blood Sisters and top off the Witches. But that's going to be a while, need to let the bank account rest for a bit and refill.

[PraetorDragoon]

Hrm.. Well, you can do without the Blood Cauldron. It is simply pretty useful to have (and a nice centerpice). Avatar on its own is... funky. Until turn 3 (the third blood rite), you need to spend a prayer to animated it. If this fails, it won't do anything. He is still a good beatstick otherwise.

For the winged ladies it might be interesting to build 10 or so as the melee variant. Those can be quite cool if you charge them and put Mindrazor on them. They can be damage 3 if they have more bravery than their foe.

[Requizen]

Put together my Blood Bowl box + Dark Elves as part of my "build everything while under Quarantine" process. Now I have a desire to actually play the game, since these models are great and I love board games like this. Really contemplating picking up a few more teams from a third party seller that's still shipping right now...

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

I've always admired Blood Bowl from afar. Do you have a local league you think you could join?

[Saambell]

Got my package in, and have started building the snakes and canaries. Going with spear snakes, as well as 10 spear canaries. Not sure if I will go with sickle canaries for the other 10 or just get a second squad of spears. With the 20 witches I have I think they will all be the knife and shield, though as far as I can tell if I go double knife I can get up to like 5 attacks on each model. The whip girls look neat, but their only bonus lets them auto charge by way of pile in range of 6", while knife girls have bonuses from being near their leaders which they should be anyway to get their prayers and spells.

[PraetorDragoon]

The difference between shields & knives isn't that big, but when you wipe an enemy that charges you with shield parries you feel good. :smallbiggrin: But if you want all with knives for that large number of attacks then there is nothing wrong with it.

You'll be surprised how good that 6" range on being able to pile in and attack combined with 2" melee is. There are some tricks you can avoid by skipping the charge phase.

[Requizen]

I've always admired Blood Bowl from afar. Do you have a local league you think you could join?

I'll ask around when this is all over. I know there's some grogs who play with the old old sets and have been playing for decades, but my normal group said they'd be down for anything once we finally get to play games together again.

I think I'm gonna order the Lizards, so I'll end up with 4 pretty different teams and can play a good amount of variety. Not sure if how much to go into getting extra players or anything like that, though.

Blood Bowl is fascinating to me. Especially as a fan of esports, it's interesting since only a few games have really withstood the test of time (Brood War, Smash Melee, Counterstrike), and seeing Blood Bowl be basically unchanged for 20 years or so (only minor changes with LRB) gives off similar vibes, though obviously it's not a "competitively balanced" game in the same way. Some games just have that je ne sais quoi that keeps a community invested for a lifetime even after official support basically goes away. And GW has been really good about coming back in and not changing much to preserve that legacy from what I've seen.

[Yaktan]

The difference between shields & knives isn't that big, but when you wipe an enemy that charges you with shield parries you feel good. :smallbiggrin: But if you want all with knives for that large number of attacks then there is nothing wrong with it.

You'll be surprised how good that 6" range on being able to pile in and attack combined with 2" melee is. There are some tricks you can avoid by skipping the charge phase.

Yeah, the range seems like a big deal for actually getting your attacks off. Melee hordes with 1'' range have a hard time, since most of your guys are wasted, especially if you face a small unit/hero. Case in point, I recently played a match with my stormcasts vs. another stormcast player with a huge blob of sequitors. I managed to negate them for most of the game by charging one end with my fulminators. He only ever had 5 guys or so fighting out of 30; even once they managed to pile in only so many could get in range.

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

Lumineth Realmlords get some previews. I'm not sure hammers and elves really go together the way they want us to think that they do, but the armor looks nice - and the stated intention is to redefine what you think of as an elf army, so there you go. I think that of the new cowgods, the one with the large hammer works better - in this instance, being a double-kit kind of did a disservice to the more active of the two poses, I think. Doublehammer cow looks a bit caught in the headlights.

I really love the new Scions of the Flame warband. I think they're distinct from the other warbands and reference certain real-world aesthetics while still combining them in interesting ways to make something new. No idea for abilities other than a possible Double to let them throw some fire, like Raven Dart or Iron Bolas. But probably no use speculating, eh?

[Requizen]

Lumineth Realmlords get some previews. I'm not sure hammers and elves really go together the way they want us to think that they do, but the armor looks nice - and the stated intention is to redefine what you think of as an elf army, so there you go. I think that of the new cowgods, the one with the large hammer works better - in this instance, being a double-kit kind of did a disservice to the more active of the two poses, I think. Doublehammer cow looks a bit caught in the headlights.

I really love the new Scions of the Flame warband. I think they're distinct from the other warbands and reference certain real-world aesthetics while still combining them in interesting ways to make something new. No idea for abilities other than a possible Double to let them throw some fire, like Raven Dart or Iron Bolas. But probably no use speculating, eh?

Scions look so, so cool. Top 3 Warcry warband for me, can't wait to get them put together and on the table. The sword dude and mage lady are both aces.

I'm fine on the Aelves. They're cool enough that I'll admire the models, but not so much that I want to rush out and buy them. The expanding lore of civil war on Hysh and Realm Spirits going to battle is the coolest part to me, though, can't wait to see that explored some more.

[Destro_Yersul]

The elf helmets look so, so dumb. I'm really not a fan of the 'enormous sweeping curvy horn' thing they've got going with so many of the miniatures. It looks stupid on Teclis, and doubling down on it doesn't make it look any less stupid.

[PraetorDragoon]

Scions of Flame are amazing.

I do like the Divine Bovines. They're fun in an over the top way. Doesn't sell me on the army however.

[LeSwordfish]

Yeah: I like the cows, but they've solidified for me that Lumineth aren't an army I'm interested in. I'm also really not into the helmets- how many aelves do they lose each battle to swinging those hammers back, getting them caugh in the horns, and neatly snapping their own necks?

[Destro_Yersul]

My wife has pointed out that the divine bovine is, in fact, a Holy Cow.

[Avaris]

My wife has pointed out that the divine bovine is, in fact, a Holy Cow.

GW management: I want something for this range that makes them say ‘Holy cow!’ on seeing it.

Designers: ok then...

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

So I've realized that I have enough models to make a 2000 point Seraphon list. Being new to AoS in general, happy for any feedback as to what roles I might be missing.


Seraphon - Coalesced, Koatl's Claw

Warscroll Batallion
Shadowstrike Temple-Host
Skink Starpriest
-Tide of Serpents

Skinks x 20
-Boltspitter, Celestite Dagger, Star-buckler

Chameleon Skinks x 5

Terradon Riders x 3
-Sunleech Bolas

Leaders
Slann Starmaster (General)
-Great Rememberer
-Ixtli Grubs
-Walk Between Realms

Saurus Oldblood
-Celestite Greatblade

Saurus Astrolith Bearer

Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur
-Eviscerating Blade

Skink Starseer
-Hand of Glory

Behemoth
Bastilidon
-Solar Engine

Battleline
Saurus Knights x 5
-Celestite Blade

Saurus Warriors x 20
-Celestite Spears

Scenery
Realmgate Engine

1930 pts
2 command points

[Requizen]

So I've realized that I have enough models to make a 2000 point Seraphon list. Being new to AoS in general, happy for any feedback as to what roles I might be missing.


Seraphon - Coalesced, Koatl's Claw

Warscroll Batallion
Shadowstrike Temple-Host
Skink Starpriest
-Tide of Serpents

Skinks x 20
-Boltspitter, Celestite Dagger, Star-buckler

Chameleon Skinks x 5

Terradon Riders x 3
-Sunleech Bolas

Leaders
Slann Starmaster (General)
-Great Rememberer
-Ixtli Grubs
-Walk Between Realms

Saurus Oldblood
-Celestite Greatblade

Saurus Astrolith Bearer

Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur
-Eviscerating Blade

Skink Starseer
-Hand of Glory

Behemoth
Bastilidon
-Solar Engine

Battleline
Saurus Knights x 5
-Celestite Blade

Saurus Warriors x 20
-Celestite Spears

Scenery
Realmgate Engine

1930 pts
2 command points


You can't buy more than 1 Command Point anymore, unless one of those were from the Battalion, in which case looking good. If you don't have any other models, I think it looks fine other than you don't seem to have the extra Artifact the Battalion gives you. The Skink ones are alright, I wouldn't recommend the Saurus artifacts unless you want to give the Carnosaur a Realm Artifact to keep it healthy like Ignax Scales or Gryph-Feather Charm.

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

You can't buy more than 1 Command Point anymore, unless one of those were from the Battalion, in which case looking good. If you don't have any other models, I think it looks fine other than you don't seem to have the extra Artifact the Battalion gives you. The Skink ones are alright, I wouldn't recommend the Saurus artifacts unless you want to give the Carnosaur a Realm Artifact to keep it healthy like Ignax Scales or Gryph-Feather Charm.

Thanks! Yeah, the extra command point is from the battalion. I gave the extra artifact to the Scar-Veteran ~ I have to take the Koatl's Claw artifact, the Eviscerating Blade (any unmodified hit roll of 6 deals two mortal wounds in addition to other damage), so unfortunately I don't have a lot of room to maneuver, there.

[Requizen]

Thanks! Yeah, the extra command point is from the battalion. I gave the extra artifact to the Scar-Veteran ~ I have to take the Koatl's Claw artifact, the Eviscerating Blade (any unmodified hit roll of 6 deals two mortal wounds in addition to other damage), so unfortunately I don't have a lot of room to maneuver, there.

Ah right, forgot that that was from the subfaction. Then yeah, it's looking good. Down in points, you could easily throw in an Endless Spell or clear up some space for an Ally, but if that's what you've got on hand, I'm betting you'll do alright in the long run even if it's not "optimal". Koatl's Claw is a pretty good pick for the collection you have, or at least the best of the subfactions, I'm not sure if it's better than no Constellation.

Good enough to start playing, though! Maybe once we're no longer all locked away :smallsigh:

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

Ah right, forgot that that was from the subfaction. Then yeah, it's looking good. Down in points, you could easily throw in an Endless Spell or clear up some space for an Ally, but if that's what you've got on hand, I'm betting you'll do alright in the long run even if it's not "optimal". Koatl's Claw is a pretty good pick for the collection you have, or at least the best of the subfactions, I'm not sure if it's better than no Constellation.

Good enough to start playing, though! Maybe once we're no longer all locked away :smallsigh:

I appreciate the advice! Yeah, it might be a while before I actually get a game in. >.< Tabletop Simulator only goes so far. I think I'll see if my roommate wants to learn Warcry.

[Requizen]

I appreciate the advice! Yeah, it might be a while before I actually get a game in. >.< Tabletop Simulator only goes so far. I think I'll see if my roommate wants to learn Warcry.

I've tried in vain to convince my wife to play games with me, so I'm down to playing by myself. Blackstone Fortress is actually designed to play solo if you're a sad loner like me, but Blood Bowl and Warcry just aren't the same (and Underworlds is basically pointless with open hands).

[PraetorDragoon]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/04/04/the-warhammer-preview-online-2-heroes-heretics-and-a-squirrelgw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-1/

The Lumineth will apparently get a sister-like box of some starting unit, cards, dice and their battletome. I bet it will sell out in 4 seconds. :smallbiggrin:

More importantly, there is a Giant army on the horizon!

[Requizen]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/04/04/the-warhammer-preview-online-2-heroes-heretics-and-a-squirrelgw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-1/

The Lumineth will apparently get a sister-like box of some starting unit, cards, dice and their battletome. I bet it will sell out in 4 seconds. :smallbiggrin:

More importantly, there is a Giant army on the horizon!

Giants soon!

And that Treeman looks pretty cool. I have 6 unfinished Blood Bowl teams, I don't need Halflings or Wood Elves... yet :smallwink:

Hopefully part 3 will have Underworlds stuff. They did say there would be something for all of their games.

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

Hmm, I kind of wish they'd saved it all for April 18th or just lumped it into last week's reveal. Why wait a week to tease a box for the Lumineth Realmlords that we already figured would come, with no new models being shown? Don't want to be super negative. I like that the Treeman's vines look like the grills of a football helmet, which was a nice touch. I'm not sure what to expect from a Gargant army. I remember when the plastic giant kit came out, it was such a big deal.

So Ogors and Gargants, despite using models from Fantasy, are completely indigenous to the mortal realms? Like we have to pretend that the old Giant kit is now a son of a zodiacal godbeast? Where did the new Ogors come from?

It's one thing I'm struggling with my Seraphon. The fact that the Old Ones were supposed to have built the realmgates, for example - but in the old world they were already a forgotten memory. No first-generation Slann remained, and second generation were incredibly rare. In the new Seraphon lore, the Old Ones created the realmgates in the Age of Myth, and the Slann helped out. Were there new generation of Slann that were spawned inbetween, and it just happens that they are exactly as rare now as they were in the Old World?

It would be a bit easier if it was a complete reboot, I think - having these distinct, specific ties to the history of the Old World makes it harder to suspend my disbelief for these kinds of continuity errors.

That said, I'm totally on board for the new setting. I've been reading the lore in the second edition rulebook and it's really great stuff. I've already decided my Seraphon are based out of the deserts of Aqshy and have been painting them up to look like bearded dragons. I'm into it. But where was the Slann in my army spawned? In the Old World, or in the Mortal Realms during the Age of Myth?

[Requizen]

Quarantine Hobby: Underworlds Edition

Stormsire's Cursebreakers (https://imgur.com/gallery/UbrtwSU)

I've got my painting backlog lined up in alternating order: Underworlds, Blood Bowl, Warcry. Lets me get a good mix of styles to paint so it doesn't get mind-numbing too quickly. Kill Team, Warhammer Quest, and remaining SCE/Bonesplitterz army models take a back seat, since I like the idea of knocking out a team at a time.

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

Nice job, looking sharp. Good job doing the black highlights. Only bit of constructive criticism is that the highlights on the cloaks look a bit severe - maybe another wash and highlight could even them out. But the gold trim pops like it should, and there's great flame effec

[Requizen]

Nice job, looking sharp. Good job doing the black highlights. Only bit of constructive criticism is that the highlights on the cloaks look a bit severe - maybe another wash and highlight could even them out. But the gold trim pops like it should, and there's great flame effec

Thanks! I agree the robes aren't perfect, I'm still not great at getting cloth to look right. And it was my first time doing fire, I'm pretty happy with it!

[Requizen]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/04/18/warhammer-preview-3-revenge-of-the-previewgw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-1/

Posted some of my thoughts in the 40k thread, but there's plenty of AoS stuff in here worth talking about.

My biggest gripe right now is the Lumineth slow drip. Like, we all know the army is coming, we all know it's going to be different than what we all thought now that we've seen giant cows and hammer-wielding aelves, just dump the whole faction and be done with it. Two weeks and we get... a new Wizard. Lots of detail, and the story behind her is intriguing, but really? Show everything and let us have something to consume during lockdown, let people plan paint schemes and stuff. I just find it a bit frustrating.

Gargants are kind of a meh for me. I think the models look great, the detail is pretty ace, and the amount of bits will be crazy, but... was anyone really chomping at the bit to play mono-Gargants? Destruction already has a solo-monster faction in the Beastclaw side of Ogor Mawtribes, and I think those big beasties look way cooler than the Gargants. They're cool, I'm not mad about it, but it's a pretty hard pass on my side. I'm glad people who want them are happy, though.

The Warcry models are great, but my main interest is in what this means for the game as a whole. Are we going to get a full year "season" of Order warbands? One from each Realm, like we got for Chaos? If they all stay at the level of Cities of Sigmar linemen (Freeguild, Dark Aelves, High Aelves, Dispossessed, Wanderers) and are just themed to each Realm, I think that could be a really interesting style that matches well with the Chaos teams.

I like the Snotling BB team. I get that people wanted the existing factions, and I kind of want some High Elf or Vampire models, but I'm not mad over the release. And it's kinda cool to get a break from teams we already know to get something new. Hit and miss at the same time.

[PraetorDragoon]

I think the partial problem with Lumineth is in the vein of the Engine Wars book, that it should be out already or released very soon. And GW does like to have something to show on release as well, at least for the full new armies. So they want to show something off, but still keep something back to get hype on release day.

Giants look like big giants. Don't really care about them though. People seemed to want some Knight-like faction in AoS, so they might be satisfied with this.

Warcry band is interesting. Nice to see the mistweaver aesthetic returned. Will be nice to see where that goes. It is also a nice way to add units to existing armies as well, considering these are Daughters of Khaine themed. (Or at least Morathi-related)

[Cheesegear]

My biggest gripe right now is the Lumineth slow drip. Like, we all know the army is coming, we all know it's going to be different than what we all thought now that we've seen giant cows and hammer-wielding aelves, just dump the whole faction and be done with it. Two weeks and we get... a new Wizard. Lots of detail, and the story behind her is intriguing, but really? Show everything and let us have something to consume during lockdown, let people plan paint schemes and stuff. I just find it a bit frustrating.

Metrics. New GW is same as Old GW. They do exactly what they used to do. But now it's online. Instead of in White Dwarf.

You click on a thing, they give you two pictures. Generate hype.
They make you click on another thing, they give you two pictures. Generate hype.
They make you click on another thing, they give you two pictures. Generate hype.
...ad nauseum.

As per most commercial websites, they lose if you they give you everything at once:
- They can say to their shareholders, that the site gets X visits per week. People have to keep coming back, equals more clicks.
- The hype train stays fresh, because you can't pump out one piece and then be done with it.

The only way this stops working, is if you refuse to jump on the hype train. That's why I rarely go to Warhammer Community. I know what GW is doing, and I refuse to be a part of it. I'll just wait for someone else who has seen it, and go off what they say. The pictures will be up on Facebook within an hour or so. Just wait. Don't go to WC.

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

Well I'm a bit late to comment on the preview because the internet ate my first post. After a few days the only thing I really have to say is I hate the bow-legged stance of the new giants. As a whole their proportions look more cartoonish to me than anything, and for that reason I'm bitter on them the way I am on most of the Gloomspite Gitz model range - they don't have the grounded feeling that a lot of the Old World had. Fair enough, new setting, new aesthetic. Just my preference. If I have a big centerpiece model I want it to be aesthetically interesting, not oafish.

[Requizen]

I got my PDF of Soulbound, the AoS Tabletop RPG. Would anyone be interested in a rundown once I'm done reading it? Or would it be better put into a separate thread, as it's a different game?

[PraetorDragoon]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/11/endless-spells-to-keep-you-groundedgw-homepage-post-2/

Lumineth Endless Spells. Less grand than other factions, but I like them.


I got my PDF of Soulbound, the AoS Tabletop RPG. Would anyone be interested in a rundown once I'm done reading it? Or would it be better put into a separate thread, as it's a different game?

As it is an RPG, it might be better to create a seperate thread in the RPG subforum instead.

[Requizen]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/11/endless-spells-to-keep-you-groundedgw-homepage-post-2/

Lumineth Endless Spells. Less grand than other factions, but I like them.

Oh good, they updated the Twinstones. When they first posted it, it just had the first paragraph of rules so no one knew what it actually did lolol.

I think the Twinstones are going to be a must-take if they end up being Wizard-heavy. Though, as we've only seen foot wizards and Tyrion, unsure if that will be the case, I generally like to see at least one Monster or Monster-mounted generic Wizard for magic heavy armies. I don't think the Battle Cattle are Wizards, but if they are, I'd wager you'll see the Twinstones a lot.

The Rune is fine as a little nuke, especially as it can't backfire. Depends on points, but if it's low enough it'll find space. The -charge is huge if you're trying to dictate the flow of battle.

As for the Sanctum... it seems cool but it's not 100% clear how it works. It almost looks like it's designed to fit around a monster base, so does it just go around one of the big guys? If so, the buff is insane. Or is it a little area that your dudes sit inside? If that's the case, it's pretty nuts since you can prevent charges entirely and it also buffs. But, does it move with models? Need to see the deployment rules to get a better picture of it.


As it is an RPG, it might be better to create a seperate thread in the RPG subforum instead.
Yeah I might make one and link it here. I'm enjoying what I'm reading so far, and the fluff in it is actually quite interesting, more of a look into City-level stuff in AoS than we've seen before. And things like "What's up with Sylvaneth that don't just hang around with Alarielle in Ghyran?" and "How do outsiders react to the more rare Aelves like Khainites and Idoneth?". I'm digging it.

[PraetorDragoon]

Oh good, they updated the Twinstones. When they first posted it, it just had the first paragraph of rules so no one knew what it actually did lolol.

I think the Twinstones are going to be a must-take if they end up being Wizard-heavy. Though, as we've only seen foot wizards and Tyrion, unsure if that will be the case, I generally like to see at least one Monster or Monster-mounted generic Wizard for magic heavy armies. I don't think the Battle Cattle are Wizards, but if they are, I'd wager you'll see the Twinstones a lot.

The Rune is fine as a little nuke, especially as it can't backfire. Depends on points, but if it's low enough it'll find space. The -charge is huge if you're trying to dictate the flow of battle.

As for the Sanctum... it seems cool but it's not 100% clear how it works. It almost looks like it's designed to fit around a monster base, so does it just go around one of the big guys? If so, the buff is insane. Or is it a little area that your dudes sit inside? If that's the case, it's pretty nuts since you can prevent charges entirely and it also buffs. But, does it move with models? Need to see the deployment rules to get a better picture of it.


I've seen rumours that the unit captains are low-key wizards like acolytes/pink horrors. Which could make them quite magic heavy.

[Requizen]

I've seen rumours that the unit captains are low-key wizards like acolytes/pink horrors. Which could make them quite magic heavy.

If that's the case, Twinstones seem almost an auto-include. Armies with a heavy Wizard presence usually end up somewhere between 50-150 points in Endless Spells, and one that boosts your important spellcasts is basically a gimme. You see it a lot with Tzeentch already.


Speaking of Realmlords, their Warcry stats are in a White Dwarf and got leaked. Unit Rules here (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599337120917880852/709795159981686814/IMG-20200512-WA0000.jpg). Abilities here (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599337120917880852/709803880166195230/luminethabilities.jpg). Hopefully those links work. They seem solid - not as broken as some of the AoS warbands, but still good.

[PraetorDragoon]

If that's the case, Twinstones seem almost an auto-include. Armies with a heavy Wizard presence usually end up somewhere between 50-150 points in Endless Spells, and one that boosts your important spellcasts is basically a gimme. You see it a lot with Tzeentch already.


Speaking of Realmlords, their Warcry stats are in a White Dwarf and got leaked. Unit Rules here (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599337120917880852/709795159981686814/IMG-20200512-WA0000.jpg). Abilities here (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599337120917880852/709803880166195230/luminethabilities.jpg). Hopefully those links work. They seem solid - not as broken as some of the AoS warbands, but still good.

Hmm. Not fond of their long ranges, but they don't seem too brutal at first glance.

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

Oh good, they updated the Twinstones. When they first posted it, it just had the first paragraph of rules so no one knew what it actually did lolol.

Oh good, I was worried I had just missed it the first time around - I was actually going to post to see if I was the only one who didn't know what exactly this spell was supposed to do!


Yeah I might make one and link it here. I'm enjoying what I'm reading so far, and the fluff in it is actually quite interesting, more of a look into City-level stuff in AoS than we've seen before. And things like "What's up with Sylvaneth that don't just hang around with Alarielle in Ghyran?" and "How do outsiders react to the more rare Aelves like Khainites and Idoneth?". I'm digging it.

I just got the pdf and am excited to get into it. Sounds like we're getting some good development of the Mortal Realms - the setting is growing on me, I admit.


Speaking of Realmlords, their Warcry stats are in a White Dwarf and got leaked. Unit Rules here (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599337120917880852/709795159981686814/IMG-20200512-WA0000.jpg). Abilities here (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599337120917880852/709803880166195230/luminethabilities.jpg). Hopefully those links work. They seem solid - not as broken as some of the AoS warbands, but still good.

It's kind of funny seeing the chaos icons on all of the cards. Looks to me like the Stoneguard are probably carrying a lot of weight for the warband - their double (Mountain Stance) is cool because there's no minimum damage, so they could potentially take nothing, but if your opponent rolls four crits you'd probably still be out of luck. Lances of the Dawn also stands out to me as being pretty good. Not a lot of cheaper options unfortunately - two cavalry, three hammers, and a leader and a couple of sentinels and that might be it.

Given that these are all new sculpts, does anyone else think that it's pretty likely we get a Lumineth Warcry starter box?

[Requizen]

It's kind of funny seeing the chaos icons on all of the cards. Looks to me like the Stoneguard are probably carrying a lot of weight for the warband - their double (Mountain Stance) is cool because there's no minimum damage, so they could potentially take nothing, but if your opponent rolls four crits you'd probably still be out of luck. Lances of the Dawn also stands out to me as being pretty good. Not a lot of cheaper options unfortunately - two cavalry, three hammers, and a leader and a couple of sentinels and that might be it.

Given that these are all new sculpts, does anyone else think that it's pretty likely we get a Lumineth Warcry starter box?

Stoneguard are big, tough (with the double, at least), and hitty. But, they're Move 3, which is historically pretty bad to have. Granted, they're Move 3 in a faction that can get a good amount of Move 5 chumps alongside, which isn't anything to sniff at. All the choices seem pretty alright, and I'm a fan of the Cavalry in particular as good all-around troubleshooters.

I doubt we get a Warcry specific box for them right off the bat, but maybe a Start Collecting with hey, many of the units usable in Warcry. But then also something big, so you're interested in AoS.

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

A good point! Movement is key. Anything with movement of 3 is actually probably DOA. There are a few exceptions (like the Ogor Breacher that, combined with the quad* ability, is lethal), but the cavalry are probably the better choice for elite troops. It's actually one thing I am finding frustrating about the Splintered Fang - we played on Tabletop the other day and, except for my snake swarms (six inch move baby), I was getting outmaneuvered very easily. I like my warband a lot, it wins or ties more often than it loses, but only four out of 10 models have a movement greater than 4 and that has been the thing that has lost games, more often than not. I think I'd like to give Corvus Cabal another try, their mobility is a big strength.
----
Anyone have good recommendations on AoS Black Library books, in terms of who are the better authors? I'm looking for a fun series to eat up a few hours of my day.

[Brookshw]

I'm considering getting to AoS mostly to paint certain models but knowing I'll eventually end up with enough to put together an army and play. That said, I'd like to avoid painting another horde army. Can you get away with Seraphon or Sylvaneth armies of a low model count? How about skeletons/vampires (I assume not)?

[PraetorDragoon]

I'm considering getting to AoS mostly to paint certain models but knowing I'll eventually end up with enough to put together an army and play. That said, I'd like to avoid painting another horde army. Can you get away with Seraphon or Sylvaneth armies of a low model count? How about skeletons/vampires (I assume not)?

Seraphon is an extensive list and can be run from either Horde or Elite as you prefer. They even have support for a monster-only list, and you can't get more elite than that.

Sylvaneth is more of a midstyle, not really horde but not that elite either. To properly play them you'll need their terrain though. You can play without, but a bunch of abilities key of them. Which is something to keep in mind if you want to just collect them for painting.

Classic vampires & skeletons are a thematic horde army. Pure vampires centered around Blood Knights are elite, but you don't see them much. (Also, they're finecast and expensive).

Skeleton-wise, there are also the Ossiarch Bonereapers, who are skeletal bone golems. They are an elite take on the skeleton army.

[Requizen]

Seraphon is an extensive list and can be run from either Horde or Elite as you prefer. They even have support for a monster-only list, and you can't get more elite than that.

Sylvaneth is more of a midstyle, not really horde but not that elite either. To properly play them you'll need their terrain though. You can play without, but a bunch of abilities key of them. Which is something to keep in mind if you want to just collect them for painting.

Classic vampires & skeletons are a thematic horde army. Pure vampires centered around Blood Knights are elite, but you don't see them much. (Also, they're finecast and expensive).

Skeleton-wise, there are also the Ossiarch Bonereapers, who are skeletal bone golems. They are an elite take on the skeleton army.

Agreed with Seraphon, I actually think Monster-heavy is quite good. I wouldn't go pure Monster, but Thunder Lizard subfaction makes your beasties super powerful.
I think Sylvaneth wants at least one blob of Dryads. You can go pure Monsters with minimal Spite-Revenant battleline and some Kurnoths, but you'll struggle in a lot of missions imo.
Both armies have access to Summoning, but neither relies on it.

Pure Soulblight Vampires usually convert their Blood Knights out of other forces, but that army isn't super competitive. It's pretty fun, though.
Bonereapers aren't elite at all. Best lists are running 60+ Mortek Guard, some pushing 100. You can build elite, but it's not particularly good, or at least not better than any other Death Elite build.

Brookshw, if you want to play truly elite, as in the lowest model count available, the best ones right now are Ogors - mostly using Beastclaw, but even Gutbusters are pretty low model. Armies that have "viable" elite builds include Seraphon (monster mash), Khorne (Bloodthirster spam, though you'll want a summoning pool), Deepkin (Eels), Flesh Eaters (Monster Mash, will want summoning pool), and Stormcast (not hyper elite, but you can play as low as like 20 models and still be good).

Many armies can build elite, but if you play anyone outside casuals you'll feel some suffering. But if that doesn't bother you, then you should mostly pick the ones that look cool. You can go pretty elite with Slaves to Darkness, for example, just spamming Mounted Heroes, Charios, and Knights.

Edit: also worth noting that the Kharadron Overlords new Battletome has some elite capabilities, but didn't get a lot of time in the tourney scene before shut down. People theorize that with the buffs and point drop on boats, they're potentially quite good, and that Arkanaut spam is less reliable now with the changes to special weapons. A relatively elite force is likely fairly viable for them, though we'll find out more soon.

[Brookshw]

snip

Thanks Requizen and PraetorDragoon, all useful feedback. Ultimately I've narrowed the options to those with models I appreciated the aesthetics of, I don't expect to ever try for anything particularly competitive - likely just a few PUGs at the local shop, if even that.

How do armies work in AoS? Similar to 40k, can I put some Sylvaneth & Seraphon together as they're both Order, or is it more regimented and you can only field one at a time? Realistically I'm just wondering if I can cherry pick the models I like and have a chance of putting them on the table without having to buy any, or at least minimal, filler.

[Requizen]

Thanks Requizen and PraetorDragoon, all useful feedback. Ultimately I've narrowed the options to those with models I appreciated the aesthetics of, I don't expect to ever try for anything particularly competitive - likely just a few PUGs at the local shop, if even that.

How do armies work in AoS? Similar to 40k, can I put some Sylvaneth & Seraphon together as they're both Order, or is it more regimented and you can only field one at a time? Realistically I'm just wondering if I can cherry pick the models I like and have a chance of putting them on the table without having to buy any, or at least minimal, filler.

It's a bit more streamlined than 40k. There's no detachments, but everything is based on Keywords. If everyone has the same Keyword, and that Keyword has Allegiance rules, you get the benefits of that Allegiance. For instance, you can take some Seraphon and some Sylvaneth, who all have the Order keyword, and be an Order Allegiance Army (rules found in the Core Book). However, if all your models are Seraphon, you get Seraphon Allegiance abilities, which are more specific to the army and much, much stronger.

For army building purposes, you just need to meet minimum Hero and Battleline restrictions, and can't go over the maximum Hero, Behemoth, or War Machine allotments. At 2000, that's 1 Hero and 3 Battleline minimum, and 6 Heroes, 4 Behemoths, and/or 4 War Machines maximum. Any unit that doesn't have those types, you can take as many or as few as you want.

Armies have a specific Ally list, which you can find in their Battletome or in The General's Handbook. Up to 20% of your points AND up to 1/4 of the units (which can be tricky for Elite armies) can be Allied off of that list. Allied models don't count towards your minimum requirements, but do count towards your maximum allotment.

Seraphon and Sylvaneth are Allies and both Order, so you could pick whatever you want and go Order, or you can pick one to be your main Allegiance and take a handful of Allies from the other Faction, as long as you don't take more than 400 points (in a 2k list) of them.

[PraetorDragoon]

Thanks Requizen and PraetorDragoon, all useful feedback. Ultimately I've narrowed the options to those with models I appreciated the aesthetics of, I don't expect to ever try for anything particularly competitive - likely just a few PUGs at the local shop, if even that.

How do armies work in AoS? Similar to 40k, can I put some Sylvaneth & Seraphon together as they're both Order, or is it more regimented and you can only field one at a time? Realistically I'm just wondering if I can cherry pick the models I like and have a chance of putting them on the table without having to buy any, or at least minimal, filler.

When you build your army, you pick your Alegiance, this is based on the keywords on the bottom of a warscroll. You can either be to your Grand Alliance (ORDER, CHAOS, DESTRUCTION, or DEATH) or the faction alegiance. To do so, every unit in your army must share that keyword. So with Seraphon and Sylvaneth together you can claim ORDER, as they are both ORDER. But you cannot be SYLVANETH or SERAPHON, as not everyone has this keyword.

Army construction is based on Leader, Battleline, Behemoth and Artilery. Depending on your points level you have a required amount of Battlelines (think troops) and a limit on Leaders, Behemoths and Artilery.

Alegiances hand out some bonuses and make some units Battleline. For example, Dryads are always battleline, but in a SYLVANETH army you can also use Tree-Revenants and Spite-Revenants as Battleline.

[Brookshw]

Got it, thank you both once again.

Btw, Requizen,, congratulations on the forthcoming child. If you think your free time is about to take a hit just wait for the sticker shock.

[Requizen]

Got it, thank you both once again.

Btw, Requizen,, congratulations on the forthcoming child. If you think your free time is about to take a hit just wait for the sticker shock.

Thanks! Yeah I have a feeling hobby will take a back seat in basically every conceivable respect haha

[Brookshw]

Out of curiosity, why are Dark Elves Armies of Order? There any fluff reason for their apparent switching of sides? I seem to recall them being closer to Chaos.

[RagingBluMunky]

Short way: they're not your old dark elves.

Long way: Order Serpentis and Darkling Covens are survivors/descendents of the elven kingdoms that existed in Ulgu, at least until chaos came and kicked them out. As far as I know, there's no direct line of descent from the druchii of old.

Really, the only uniting factors of Order are: Build civilizations, hate Chaos, and aren't dead.

[Requizen]

Really, the only uniting factors of Order are: Build civilizations, hate Chaos, and aren't dead.

Yeah that's basically it. "Order" doesn't mean good guys, so much as it means that you're trying to defend creation from falling apart, and when you wage war it's for reasons more logical than the Orruks. It's not a perfect label, but having four Grand Alliances looks much nicer than a bunch of random factions with no connections.

In the context of Cities, they fit because power-wise they're much closer to Humans or Duardin than they are to Stormcast or Daemons. All the mook-level mortals have to band together to survive in the Realms, otherwise they get wiped out by every passing army.

[Saambell]

In terms of elves at least, the Daughters of Khaine rulebook tells the story of how several of the New Elven gods and one half-daemon found the resting location of Slannesh after she had feasted on nearly the entire population of the old world's elves, thanks to Tzeentch playing back stabber. Using powerful magic, they trapped her and started extracting the souls, using them to forge new elves with no connection to the old world. Since these new elves are not part of Chaos, and are far more organized then any of the destruction races, they get placed under Order. They have a tenuous peace with each other but will quickly backstab each other should it mean their own kingdoms get more power or advantage. So no, Elves are not Good, Order is not Good, it just means they have goals and plans bigger then simply breaking or killing everything.

[Avaris]

Related to the ‘Order is not good’ thing, Nagash was originally part of the pantheon or Order, and has similar goals, the only reason Death is a seperate thing is because he wants to be at the top!

[Cheesegear]

Order is not Good, it just means they have goals and plans bigger then simply breaking or killing everything.

Death: Kill everything.
Destruction: Break everything.
Chaos: Kill everything, break everything.
Order: No, thank you.

The Darkling Covens and Order Serpentis are the perfect examples of 'The enemy of my enemy is also my enemy, just not right now.'
Lawful Evil is a fun alignment like that.

[9mm]

Death: Kill everything.
Destruction: Break everything.
Chaos: Kill everything, break everything.
Order: No, thank you.

The Darkling Covens and Order Serpentis are the perfect examples of 'The enemy of my enemy is also my enemy, just not right now.'
Lawful Evil is a fun alignment like that.

Death is more "Free will causes Chaos, end free will" you either die and become bound to the will of Nagash, or go crazy and become bound to a Lunitic flesh eating king you'll slavishly follow.

[Requizen]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/16/lumineth-realm-lords-how-do-they-play/

Finally some more teasers for the pointy boiz.

They seem a bit overdesigned - everyone is a wizard, also every unit has individual resources, also every unit has some brand new game-warping ability, also there's extra stuff that happens at setup, also they break the combat phase.

That said, I think it depends heavily on the unit stats. Insanely strong abilities make sense if the individual units are relatively middling or even weak, and line(wo)men Aelves have always proven to be a bit on the chumpy side, even DoK units are pretty meh without their stacking buffs and passive abilities.


I told myself I wasn't going to get roped into a new army, but... well, one army box isn't a committal, right? It's just a Warcry warband plus the fancy armor dude. And if I pick up some Alarith units and Vanari Sentinels to round out the warband, that's not really an army, right?

...right?

[PraetorDragoon]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/16/lumineth-realm-lords-how-do-they-play/

Finally some more teasers for the pointy boiz.

They seem a bit overdesigned - everyone is a wizard, also every unit has individual resources, also every unit has some brand new game-warping ability, also there's extra stuff that happens at setup, also they break the combat phase.

That said, I think it depends heavily on the unit stats. Insanely strong abilities make sense if the individual units are relatively middling or even weak, and line(wo)men Aelves have always proven to be a bit on the chumpy side, even DoK units are pretty meh without their stacking buffs and passive abilities.


I told myself I wasn't going to get roped into a new army, but... well, one army box isn't a committal, right? It's just a Warcry warband plus the fancy armor dude. And if I pick up some Alarith units and Vanari Sentinels to round out the warband, that's not really an army, right?

...right?

Yeah, totally not an army. Totally. :smallbiggrin:

Stats will be interesting to see. Lots of power in their rules so far.

[LeSwordfish]

I'm getting fed up with Power Armor so am idly dreaming about possible next steps. One thing I want to do is something that feels like classic wood elves, with nimble little aelves running around under the feet of huge stonking trees. Living City is probably the best way of doing that, but does mean I can't use the lovely Namarti models. Alliance of Wood and Sea isn't bad but it's like 1500pts just for the basic requirements and I'm not really interested in the sharks or eels. So! Sylvaneth with Allies.

At the moment, what I'm thinking of is this (using the leaked points):

Allegiance: Sylvaneth

Leaders
Arch-Revenant (100)
Branchwych (80)
Spirit of Durthu (300)
Treelord Ancient (260)

Battleline
10 x Dryads (100)
10 x Dryads (100)
10 x Dryads (100)

Units
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (190)
- Scythes
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (190)
- Scythes
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (190)
- Greatbows
10 x Namarti Reavers (120)
- Allies
10 x Namarti Thralls (120)
- Allies

Battalions
Forest Folk OR Free Spirits (140)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 240 / 400
Wounds: 129

Forest Folk lets the Dryads retreat and charge, Free Spirits lets the Kurnoth Hunters and Durthu auto-run 6". I'm thinking mostly of the latter to be able to put some scary blocks of wood right up in the enemy's face, backed up by the Arch-Revenant and also allowing me to swap one block of Dryads for some kind of -Revenant, which will earn me points for an Endless Spell. I've not decided on spells, artefacts etc yet, but there's an area-of-effect healing thing that it might be fun to put on the Arch-Revenant to boost the Kurnoth Hunters up. If Durthu's running 6" in the expectation of a turn-2 charge, he really needs to get healed enough to be on his top row for the flat 6 Damage.

I wish there were points for some of the lovely old Wanderer Cavalry, the Wild Riders or Sisters of the Thorn, or even just more Reavers. I could lose the Battalion for them, maybe.

[Requizen]

I'm getting fed up with Power Armor so am idly dreaming about possible next steps. One thing I want to do is something that feels like classic wood elves, with nimble little aelves running around under the feet of huge stonking trees. Living City is probably the best way of doing that, but does mean I can't use the lovely Namarti models. Alliance of Wood and Sea isn't bad but it's like 1500pts just for the basic requirements and I'm not really interested in the sharks or eels. So! Sylvaneth with Allies.

At the moment, what I'm thinking of is this (using the leaked points):

Allegiance: Sylvaneth

Leaders
Arch-Revenant (100)
Branchwych (80)
Spirit of Durthu (300)
Treelord Ancient (260)

Battleline
10 x Dryads (100)
10 x Dryads (100)
10 x Dryads (100)

Units
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (190)
- Scythes
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (190)
- Scythes
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (190)
- Greatbows
10 x Namarti Reavers (120)
- Allies
10 x Namarti Thralls (120)
- Allies

Battalions
Forest Folk OR Free Spirits (140)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 240 / 400
Wounds: 129

Forest Folk lets the Dryads retreat and charge, Free Spirits lets the Kurnoth Hunters and Durthu auto-run 6". I'm thinking mostly of the latter to be able to put some scary blocks of wood right up in the enemy's face, backed up by the Arch-Revenant and also allowing me to swap one block of Dryads for some kind of -Revenant, which will earn me points for an Endless Spell. I've not decided on spells, artefacts etc yet, but there's an area-of-effect healing thing that it might be fun to put on the Arch-Revenant to boost the Kurnoth Hunters up. If Durthu's running 6" in the expectation of a turn-2 charge, he really needs to get healed enough to be on his top row for the flat 6 Damage.

I wish there were points for some of the lovely old Wanderer Cavalry, the Wild Riders or Sisters of the Thorn, or even just more Reavers. I could lose the Battalion for them, maybe.

I like Free Spirits a bit more for the build. It looks solid, though I think it might be a bit stronger with just bigger Dryad units rather than the Namarti.

Were you thinking one of the Glades or just generic Sylvaneth?

[LeSwordfish]

I like Free Spirits a bit more for the build. It looks solid, though I think it might be a bit stronger with just bigger Dryad units rather than the Namarti.

Were you thinking one of the Glades or just generic Sylvaneth?

The Winterbite glade looks too good to miss, really (only need to get a few exploding sixes on Damage 6 attacks to change the game). Either Oakenbrow or Harvestboon would keep Durthu trucking a little longer, and I could also use Harvestboon to buff the Kurnouths.

For a more competitive context, the Namarti can definitely go: probably boost two units of dryads to 10 and swap the other for some Tree Revenants to teleport around for board control.

The other thing I'm thinking about is lizards. It's surprisingly tricky to write a good lizard list, everything seems to cost about half as much again as you expect:

Slann Starmaster (260)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
Skink Starpriest (120)

10 x Saurus Knights (200)
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
20 x Saurus Warriors (180)
20 x Saurus Warriors (180)
20 x Skinks (120)
Bastiladon (220)
Firelance Temple-host (160)
1950pts

The knights get +3" to run and charge when near the Carnosaur, and if I run them as Koatl's Claw they get +1 to hit on the charge and a total of seven attacks (two sets of jaws). Someone suggested losing the second block of Sauruses for another monster, which I like in theory (second bastiladon? Troglodon?) but in practice would mean no spare points for Endless Spells, and while I don't know precisely which ones i'd take, the Slann seems perhaps a little underwhelming without them, forced to use one of his spellcasts a turn on Arcane Bolt or similar. Could lose ten skinks for one I guess.

[Requizen]

The Winterbite glade looks too good to miss, really (only need to get a few exploding sixes on Damage 6 attacks to change the game). Either Oakenbrow or Harvestboon would keep Durthu trucking a little longer, and I could also use Harvestboon to buff the Kurnouths.

For a more competitive context, the Namarti can definitely go: probably boost two units of dryads to 10 and swap the other for some Tree Revenants to teleport around for board control.

The other thing I'm thinking about is lizards. It's surprisingly tricky to write a good lizard list, everything seems to cost about half as much again as you expect:

Slann Starmaster (260)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
Skink Starpriest (120)

10 x Saurus Knights (200)
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
20 x Saurus Warriors (180)
20 x Saurus Warriors (180)
20 x Skinks (120)
Bastiladon (220)
Firelance Temple-host (160)
1950pts

The knights get +3" to run and charge when near the Carnosaur, and if I run them as Koatl's Claw they get +1 to hit on the charge and a total of seven attacks (two sets of jaws). Someone suggested losing the second block of Sauruses for another monster, which I like in theory (second bastiladon? Troglodon?) but in practice would mean no spare points for Endless Spells, and while I don't know precisely which ones i'd take, the Slann seems perhaps a little underwhelming without them, forced to use one of his spellcasts a turn on Arcane Bolt or similar. Could lose ten skinks for one I guess.

For Seraphon, Saurus and Carnos are probably the least effective units, sadly. Most competitive lists focus on Skink trickery, big monsters with support, artillery beasts, and magic. While Saurus aren't bad anymore (indeed some of the subfactions make them quite good), they still want to just run up and get stuck in combat, which is much less effective than the other options.

That said, as a FLGS army for fun, I love this style of list. Fast, with some variance, and I really like that Battalion.

[Requizen]

GHB 2020 has been out for a few days, so I thought I'd compile my thoughts on it.

Not (technically) Matched Play

The new gimmicky Open Play thing.

Do you like XWing or Aeronautica Imperialis? Well... this isn't that, though it's trying to be. But hey, unlike those games you can be a Stardrake, Terrorgheist, or Bloodthirster! So that's fun. If you have a friend or two, you all have big flying things, and an hour or two to kill, try it out.

It's a neat little diversion. Like most of these GHB one-off inclusions, I expect to play it like once or twice and then never again. Like I said, if you really want to play this type of game full time, there's other options out there.

GHB2020 includes some new Open Play and Narrative Play rules for team battles. Narrative has some rules for team games with a GM and campaigns, which I'm sure people will try out.

But who cares about that, now there's official Matched Play Coalition of Death rules! Basically both players on a team build a legal Vanguard 1000 point list, and play together as a cohesive team - just like every doubles event in history has run. However, there are some restrictions:
-You can't use a Grand Alliance as your Faction. Sorry.
-Players on a team have to have different Factions, so no double Stormcast or double Flesh Eaters.
-Unique models are Unique across the team, so no double Kroak or Arkhan.

Not only that, but various factions have different Ally levels. They posted the alliance levels here (https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Lr7r4P8Wz1uU3vNs.jpg), but here's what they do:
-No Coalition: Can't play together. Find new friends :smallyuk:
-Battle Forged: No downsides
-Fractious: Neither player gets a Command Point on Turn 1
-Desperate: Same as Fractious, plus you treat your ally like enemies for normal movement purposes

As before, there's also a few things to note about the Coalition.
-You pick one person to be the Warlord, and if there's any final decision or opposed team dice roll, they're in charge.
-Both players pick only one Auxiliary Mission, and can't both pick the same.
-When you do simultaneous actions, both players do it - which means in the combat phase, you both pick a unit to fight before the enemy does. This gives the charge and combat phase a bit extra depth, as you always want to outnumber your opponents, or potentially engage only one opponent at a time to overwhelm that army. Be tricky!

Otherwise, you use the same Pitched Battle Missions that regular Matched plays, which is great because the Open/Narrative Coalition battleplans that people used to use at events are trash.


This year's GHB includes a tool for Custom Hero creation. It has a point-buy system, so you pick a race and start with a basic stat wheel (wounds, save, move, bravery) and the Keywords appropriate, with some options for different Factions, for instance Grots can pick Spiderfang or Moonclan, and Ogors can pick Beastclaw or Gutbusters.

Pick a Archetype:
-Commanders (no Deathmage or Masterclan) get to pick either a +1 hit or +1 save Command Ability for a nearby friendly unit
-Priests (no Daemon, Deathmage, Saurus, or non-Pestilens Skaven) get to pick either a d3 damage prayer, or a 6+ shrug prayer that they can put on a friendly unit
-Wizards (level 1 only, no Duardin, Daemon, or Khorne) get one of 4 spells. 6+ Shrug to an ally spell, d3 damage and -1 save to an enemy spell, Horde clearing "roll a 5+ per model in the unit" spell, or return d3 wounds worth of models to a friendly unit spell. Worth noting that these are actually pretty insane compared to many generic Wizard's spells, making this likely the most common Archetype for many armies.

Then, you point buy weapons (ranging from free 3/4+/4+/-/1 improvised weapons to purchased 3/3+/3+/-1/2 weapons). You can also pick a shield, which is a straight improvement to save by 1 (not a +1 modifier, importantly).
The Bow is pretty good, though it's only 18" range. Otherwise, all the weapons are pretty similar, especially as you can boost them later.

Choose whether or not to point buy a companion, regular Mount, or Monster Mount. These all come with baseline weapons, which are about what you would expect from each of their respective archetypes. They also give extra wounds and movement, naturally. You can boost them in the next step. The Monster is pretty darn expensive (taking up around 1/3 of the max points available), but even without boosting your mount, it's pretty good.

Finally, point buy upgrades for your companion/mount, and then point buy upgrades for your Hero themselves. These range from improving Rend, Damage, Hit rolls, Wound rolls, or number of Attacks on a weapon, to Fly, to improved Saves, to more important ones:
-Archmage gives you +1 to Cast and Unbind. Amazing, though expensive.
-Archpriest makes your prayers go off on 2+ instead of 3+. Also very good, especially if your Faction has Prayers available.
-Zealot lets your Run and Charge. Excellent for beatsticks.
-Ethereal is expensive, but available. Yes, you can make a 3+ Ethereal character baseline. But you won't have much points left over for other stuff.
-Inspiring lets nearby allies use the Hero's Bravery, and Battle Standard Bearer increases the range. Excellent for support on chump armies.
-Consummate Commander is the most expensive, but it gives you a free CP at start of game. Potentially busted for some armies.
-Ward gives you a 6+ shrug. Not insane, but it's something.

You can potentially make some pretty nutty Heroes, and use the options available to shore up weaknesses in your army. Is it Matched Legal? Well, sorta? It shows you how to calculate your point buy points into Pitched Battle points (hint, just multiply by 10, it's likely what GW uses for their own base design), but it's not "legal" baseline. Talk to your opponent and TO. I don't think anything here is broken, but I can see why people wouldn't be keen on allowing them without consideration.

Matched Play

Some new things with GHB2020:
-You can't stack shrug saves, which wasn't available to a lot of armies, but happened enough that it was a problem. Take that, Skaven Monsters.
-You're now limited on how many Endless Spells you can take (2, 3, or 4 depending on game size). This won't affect most armies, but there were some wacky lists that were abusing them.
-Now, instead of using Kill Points as tiebreakers, you use Auxiliary Objectives, found below.
-Faction Terrain can now be legally set up, as the restrictions were reduced to 3" from other terrain and 1" from objectives.
-Triumphs are back to 3 options instead of the 6 from GHB2019. People forget them every game anyways :smallbiggrin:
-For scenery tables, now you use one table for all pieces of terrain instead of rolling for each one... which everyone was doing anyway. Terrain features are unchanged otherwise.


Pick 2 at the start of the battle after set up, reveal them at the same time as your opponent. Whoever scores the most at the end of the game, wins tiebreaker. If both scored the same, it's a draw. Much better than Kill Points.
-Aggressor: Hold all the Objectives in your opponent's Zone. Super easy in some missions for some armies.
-Assassinate: Opponent picks one of their Heroes, kill it. As you pick after Set Up, this is potentially easy if they deploy all their Heroes forward, or don't pick it if they have some hiding that you don't think you'll reach. Basically never pick against Nagash unless you have some ranged pain to bring.
-The Bait: Pick one of your units, get it killed. Tricky, as you can pick something that the opponent wants to kill, and they might shy away from killing it to prevent tiebreakers... depending on mission. Think hard about this one.
-Cornered: Have 2+ friendly units in combat with the same Enemy Hero at the same time. Are you fast killy army? This is likely free. Are you shooty? Ignore.
-Defender: No enemy units in your territory at the end of battle. Some Battleplans have very small deployment zones, far away from Objectives, like Shifting Objectives. Other missions, it's basically impossible.
-Domination: Kill 3+ enemy units in one turn. Good against MSU if you're very killy, but this one seems more difficult than others.
-Grudge: Pick a friendly and enemy Hero, yours has to kill theirs. Great if you have a big killy Monster Hero vs support Heroes.
-Headhunter: Kill all enemy Heroes. Very matchup dependent.
-Invader: Have more units in your opponent's Territory than they have in yours at the end. This is... interesting.
-Marked for Death: Pick one enemy unit, kill it by the end. Interesting, in that you can force your opponent to play back with a unit they want to be aggressive with. Or maybe they just don't care about Aux Objectives.
-Mass Panic: 2 enemy units fail Battleshock in the same turn. Some armies never take Battleshocks (OBR, CP spamming Cities, Bv10 stuff), but if you have a lot of -Bravery stuff, this might suit you. Still, usually only one unit at a time will be hit hard, so this seems a bit worse than others.
-Overwhelm: A Battleline unit kills an enemy Hero. Again, matchup dependent, but some armies will take this 90% of the time, others 0%.
-Pillage: Pick an enemy objective, score if a friendly unit with a 5+ wounds characteristic ends a turn within 3" of it. Mostly Heroes, but Monsters too. So easy for big fast Monsters, though your opponent can try to zone you out of it. You also can't just teleport to it.
-Prey on the Weak: Kill all enemy Battlelines. Great if you're facing min Battleline choices (Stormcast are often like this, sometimes Sylvaneth and Idoneth as well, for example), awful against some armies.
-Prized Possession: Pick a friendly Hero with an Artifact, score if they survive to the end. If that Artifact makes you tough and tanky, great. If it's on a 5 wound Hero and gives you extra CP... don't do it.
-Seize Ground: Pick an enemy Objective, be within 3" of it after the 4th battle round. Seemingly easy, as it can be any unit and you can teleport to it, but very specific timing means they can zone you out when it counts. And as it's Battle Round, if you go first on 4, they can spend resources to kill you off.
-Territorial: Hold the same objective 2 turns in a row. Is this free on Knife to the Heart and Total Commitment? Probably.
-Vengeful Counter: Kill an enemy unit in the same turn that they kill one of yours. Do you want to brawl in the middle of the table, and aren't focused on attrition? Likely a good one for you.

I like these over kill points, as it lets you plan for tiebreakers, especially if your army isn't focused on tabling the opponent. Often your army will pick the same 2 in most games, but keep the mission and enemy army in mind.


Most Missions are functionally unchanged compared to their GHB2019 counterparts, other than deployment zone changes and tiebreaker switching to Aux Objectives across the board. There are a couple differences, though, as well as some new missions:

-Knife to the Heart: Deployment changes
-Total Conquest: Deployment changes, slight Objective shift, you now get an extra point if a Leader is helping to hold one of your objectives
-Duality of Death: Gone. And nothing of value was lost.
-Battle for the Pass: Deployment changes, which is good because the 2019 version sucked
-Starstrike: Reduced the number of landing zones back to the original 3 per objective.
-Scorched Earth: Deployment rotated. Cannot raze enemy objectives while an Enemy Leader is near it. Get an extra Point if you Raze an objective with a friendly Leader nearby.
-Total Commitment: Unchanged. Still completely screws any army that uses reserves.
-Focal Points: Gain an extra Point if a friendly Monster helps hold an objective. Does this count for every monster holding an Objective?
-Better Part of Valor: Deployment rotated. Scoring is the same, except only Battleline units can hold Objectives. If you're running the minimum number of Battleline, you have some choices to make. If you're one of those armies where every unit option is Battleline, you're in luck.
-Shifting Objectives: Deployment zone shrunk. Get extra Points if Battleline hold Objectives.
-Places of Arcane Power: Deployment zone change. Now uses the Leader pitched battle role instead of the Hero keyword for Objectives, which I think changes... nothing? Are there any Heroes that aren't Leaders?
-Relocation Orb: Gone. Thank ****ing goodness.

And two new missions:
-The Blade's Edge: Six objectives close to the center of the board. Every turn after the first, the player going second removes one. Obviously designed to give more agency vs double turns, which means it'll be a very random mission, rarely ever the same. There'll be plenty of meatgrinder games given how close the 6 markers are, but armies with more range and trickery will play with finesse, ceding the double turn and forcing their opponents into bad positions. I like it.
-Forcing the Hand: L shaped deployment zones with 3 objectives per side. In the enemy's turn, you pick which of your objective is the Primary. That objective is worth 3 to them, the rest are worth 1. This is super interesting because the Primary Objective is a big swing, but with five other 1-point objectives available, you can decide whether it's worth the risk or not. Again, a lot of objectives shoved into the middle, so there'll be plenty of meatgrinder games, but another one where risk assessment and board control will be the important things to consider. Another good addition.


Three Missions with extra Leader scoring. Two with extra Battleline scoring. One with extra Monster scoring. Plan accordingly. Otherwise I think this year has a fairly reasonable Mission pool.


Realms are extremely streamlined in GHB2020. No more Realmscape table, no more massive Artifact or Spell lists. When you play in a Realm, you get the one Spell, the Feature (now just adds an extra Feature to all terrain), and the Command Ability. There's exactly one Artifact for each Realm as well, and none are as silly as Ignax Scales or Aetherquartz Brooch.

Aqshy
Spell: Fireball. 5+ cast, deals MWs. Better than Arcane Blast.
Artifact: Incandescent Rageblade gives you exploding 6s to a single weapon. Potentially worth on Heroes with multiple attack dice.
Feature:All terrain is Volcanic
Command Ability: Give a unit +1 to Run and Charge. Nice.

Chamon
Spell: Metamorphic Warding, 7+, give a unit +1 to save. Excellent spell.
Artifact: Plate of Perfect Protection reduces all Rend-1 to Rend- against the Hero. Very nice.
Feature: All terrain is Entangling
Command Ability: Give a unit +1 to hit in the Combat Phase. Nice.

Ghur
Spell: Wildform, 5+, +2 to Run and Charge. Just as good as ever.
Artifact: Predator's Torc lets you reroll charges. It's... fine.
Feature: All terrain is Deadly
Command Ability: Make a friendly Monster treat it's damage table as if it had taken 0 Wounds. Potentially really good, potentially useless.

Ghyran
Spell: Shield of Thorns, 5+, unit causes d3 mortals when charged. Same as before.
Artifact: Everspring Diadem restores one wound to the Hero per turn. Not great by itself, but if you can stack it with other abilities that do similar, like Living City, it becomes pretty cool.
Feature: All terrain is Healing
Command Ability: Spend a CP to cast Shield of Thorns from any Hero. Meh.

Hysh
Spell: Purity of Defence, 5+, reroll save rolls of 1 for a unit. Easier to cast than Mystic Shield, and can be cast together. Potentially good, if your army has good saves.
Artifact: Syari Trueblade lets the Hero reroll hits in melee. Cool.
Feature: All Terrain is Mystical, which is quite impactful (though better now that you can't stack shrug saves)
Command Ability: Spend a CP to let a unit ignore Cover. That's... fine? It's not bad, but you're not going to be saving points for it.

Shyish
Spell: Ripples of the Necroquake, 7+, add 1 to casting rolls for casting Endless Spells for all friendly Wizards. With the limit to Endless Spells, it's not amazing, but it can be useful if you really need a specific one.
Artifact: Gravesand Brooch lets the Hero reroll saves of 1. For a 3+ Hero, that's pretty good. Nice for baseline Ethereal Heroes, too.
Feature: All terrain is Nullification. Careful if you're playing with Endless Spells.
Command Ability: Spend a CP to give a unit a 6+ shrug. Nice.

Ulgu
Spell: Judgement of Shadow, 7+, roll a dice for each model in a unit and MW for each one under their armor save. Excellent if your army lacks horde clearing.
Artifact: Trickster's Foil lets the Hero reroll Wound rolls. Cool.
Feature: All terrain is Overgrown. This is way better than the old Ulgu Features that reduced shooting to 6", but still potentially crippling for shooting armies.
Command Ability: Spend a CP to teleport a friendly unit 18" from the Hero, to 6" from the Hero and 9" away from enemies. Good for reinforcements, but can also jump a unit out of combat or onto an objective. A big downgrade from the old one, but still extremely useful for one point.

Overall good changes. Less to remember, easier to parse, and nothing that breaks the game inherently. Each realm feels distinct, which is good, and there's none that feel awful to play in, which is better.

Yes, the removal of Malign Sorcery artifacts does indirectly nerf Allegiances that have weaker Faction Artifacts, especially compared to Factions who have good ones and are unaffected. That said, if your entire gameplan hinged on having one artifact on a specific Hero, maybe that gameplan deserved to be broken.


Then there's some stuff for Meeting Engagement, which is cool but literally nobody cares about anymore (at least that I talk to).

Overall, I think this is an excellent GHB. Nice additions for Open/Narrative, good changes to Matched Play rules, excellent Realm and Mission updates. I can't wait to play with the rules... though it would be nice if COVID allowed such a thing to happen. There's a non-zero chance that GHB2021 will be out by the time I actually play seriously again :smallsigh:

[Requizen]

Lumineth Realm-Lords

Yes, the pointy Aelves are finally out! Kinda sorta. Look, just keep blaming COVID.
The first wave is out in the box set, anyways, and the book with it. So build your starting units, work on your paint scheme, and plan lists that probably won't see the table for... a while.

Aetherquartz Reserves/Absorb Despair: Each unit gets a reserve of Aetherquartz. It's a bit like Relentless Discipline abilities for OBR, or Aethergold abilities for Kharadron - it's a resource to track unit by unit, for a one-time boost to that unit. One unit per phase can use their Reserve to get +1 to save, +1 to hit, cast an extra spell, or add 1 or reroll a spellcast. All of those are great. However, once a unit uses its Reserve, it loses one point of Bravery. That's where the second half of this comes in, Absorb Despair lets a Cathallar negate that Bravery debuff and instead give it to an enemy unit within 18". Position accordingly to set up Bravery Bombs.

Lightning Reactions: In the Combat Phase, when you pick a unit to fight, you instead pick 2 units to fight. Cool. Keep this in mind when engaging, so you don't waste it by only getting one unit in or something similar. While half the units in the book aren't particularly choppy, getting more attacks, faster, is always good.

Shining Company: Vanari units (pike-aelves, bow-aelves, and cavalry) that are set up with each model touching 2+ other models in the unit confer a -1 to hit on every attack that targets them, until they move out of that configuration. That's... insane. If you build Vanari-focused, you can have a whole army that's -1 to hit for basically nothing. Enjoy frustrating everyone, especially armies with 4+ or 5+ to hit.

Enduring as a Rock: Alarith units (hammer-aelves, floaty rock mage, and big cows) can ignore Rend-1 if they declare they are taking The Mountain Stance at the start of your turns (and start of game). There is no downside. You will declare this every turn, unless they errata it.

Tectonic Force: At the end of the Combat Phase, Alarith units force enemy units they're in combat with to make a 2" move that ends them at least 1" away from Alarith models. Then they follow up 1". That's not a huge push, but it is enough to mess up specific positioning, or objective holding, etc. It's not always gamebreaking, but hey, it's free.

Sunmetal Weapons: Not a special weapon, but Vanari units all have this. Their main weapons (pikes, bows, or spears) all deal a MW on a to-hit of 6. Each unit also has a spell called Power of Hysh to make that happen on a 5+ to hit instead. Mortal wounds are good. Mortal wounds on your basic dudes that have good amounts of attacks is great.


There's only two generic Heroes for Lumineth currently, and they each have a set of Command Traits:

Cathallar
Spellmaster: Reroll 1 casting roll per turn. Good.
Loremaster: Know an extra spell from the Lore. Fine for flexibility, but not as good.
Warmaster: 4+ for an extra Command Point in your Hero Phase. This is quite good, as there are a few very good Command Abilities in the book.

Alarith Stonemage
Majestic: +1 Bravery to nearby friendly units, -1 bravery to nearby enemy units. If you're building a Bravery Bomb, it's cool, otherwise it's ok.
Enduring: +3 wounds. Seems a bit weak for a squishy foot mage, but as you'll see later, you really want to keep these guys alive. It's good.
Loremaster: Know an extra spell from the Lore. As above, it's fine, but the other choices are better.


Once again, split between the two Heroes:

Cathallar
Phoenix Stone: When a nearby Hero is killed, roll a dice. On a 6, it doesn't die and removes all wounds. Do you feel lucky?
Silver Wand: Cast an extra spell in each phase. There are good spells in the lore, so it's fine.
Blade of Leaping Gold: +3 attacks to a weapon. The Cathallar's weapon is kinda crap, but it does do d3 damage, so maybe you'll want it? ...no, if your Cathallar is in combat, you have other issues.

Alarith Stonemage
Heartstone Amulet: 5+ Shrug. Always good, especially with the Enduring trait.
Ebony Stone: 4+ to ignore the effects of a spell or endless spell. Too specific to be selected unless you have no other options.
Magmic Hammer: +1 damage to Arcane Bolt when you cast it. That's neat, but not neat enough.


There's two lores here. Cathallars and Vanari units get one, Alarith Stonemages get the other. Teclis knows everything because he's like that.

Lore of Hysh - Cathallars and Vanari
Speed of Hysh: 5+, double the move of a friendly unit. 12" move giant cows, or 28" move Dawnriders. Excellent.
Solar Flare: 8+, pick a point within 10". Destroy any Endless Spell at that point, or if it's a Unit, 6+ per model in the unit for a MW. Then, any Wizard subtracts 2 from casting/dispelling/unbinding rolls while 12" from that point. It's bonkers, even if the range is a bit short.
Lambent Light: 5+, pick an enemy unit with 18" and reroll all shooting hits against it. Excellent if you're running a lot of Sentinels.
Ethereal Blessing: 6+, give a friendly unit Ethereal (ignore modifiers to armor). Great against some armies, awful against others. Do not this prevents the +1 to save Aetherquartz Reserve.
Total Eclipse: 8+, enemies must spend 2 Command Points to use Command Abilities. Sure, some armies don't care, but this straight up breaks the back of some armies. And is just a flex in general.
Protection of Hysh: 8+, 9" bubble of 5+ shrug save for all friendly units. Solid.

Lore of The High Peaks - Alarith Stonemages
Unyielding Calm: 4+, make a unit ignore Battleshocks. Neat, if you don't want to spend CP to ignore it.
Crippling Vertigo: 6+, enemy units must roll 2d6 before moving, charging, or piling in. If they roll above their Bravery, they can't move. Get absolutely wrecked.
Voice of the Mountains: 6+, give an enemy unit -2 Bravery this turn, and then instead -1 until your next Hero Phase. Did I mention there's a Bravery Bomb in this book?
Living Fissure: 6+, draw a line, 2+ do deal d3 MWs to units below the line. Generic damaging spell type thing.
Entomb: 7+, pick an enemy model. Roll above it's Wound Characteristic to kill it. If it's a 6 and they have 6+ wounds, deal d6 MWs instead. Yes, it can pop coherency. Yes, it can snipe 3 or 4 wound Elites. Dicey, though.
Assault of Stone: 8+, Roll a dice per model in enemy unit, if you roll below their save, deal a MW. Horde clearing.


These are your Subfactions. Pick one when you write your list to get abilities and bonuses, but get locked into Traits and Artifacts. Or don't pick one and have freedom.

Ymetrica
Also makes Alarith Stoneguard Battleline
Ability: Mountain Stance Alarith units (which again, is all of them, all the time), ignore Rend-2 as well as Rend-1. That's insane. You can make an entire army that ignores most Rend.
Command Ability: After you use Tectonic Force with a unit, you can use it again on a different nearby unit. Only useful if you're outnumbered, but it is kinda cool.
Trait: Instead of fighting, the General can just deal d3 MW on a 2+. Which is cool, because the Cathallar has a crappy weapon anyways, and it deals about the same amount of damage that a Stonemage would do anyways.
Artifact: Once per combat, deal an extra damage with your weapon. Gain a 6+ Shrug save. Ignore Spells on a 5+. It's a bad version of all the Alarith Artifacts put together, but you get all of them at the same time. For something you're forced to take, it's pretty ok.

Syar
Ability: All units have 2 Aetherquartz instead of 1. More resources is better, though you'll probably have more than you'll ever need.
Command Ability: When a unit could use an Aetherquartz reserve, spend a CP to use it even if another unit has already done it that phase. Need +1 to save twice in combat? Great. Need more spells to go off? Sure. When you need it, it's great.
Trait: Force an enemy to fight your Hero, and gain +1 to hit against it. Your Generic Heroes are trash in combat, but if you need to fight, you need to fight.
Artifact: Give the bearer's weapon an unmodifiable 3+/3+ to hit wound, and oppenents can't have saves better than 4+ against it. Again, you don't want to fight, but if you have to...

Iliatha
Ability: +2 Bravery to most units in the army. Cool.
Command Ability: Give a unit with 2+ models rerolls to hit of 1 in either the shooting or combat phase. Like the generic one, but with no range restriction. Cool.
Trait Ability 2: When you use a Command Ability, a nearby unit can also use a Command Ability without spending a point. Have 2 Heroes next to each other, use the above Command Ability on 2 different units for supreme hitting power.
Artifact: When the bearer dies the first time, roll a dice. On a 4+ they remove all wounds and are fine. It's pretty alright.

Zaitrec
Ability: +1 to the first cast/dispel/unbind of each Wizard per turn. All Heroes know an extra spell. Wizard subfaction, got it.
Command Trait: Get an extra unbind, and the second unbind per turn from that General can be rerolled.
Trait Spell: All Wizards know Overwhelming Heat: 7+, pick an enemy within 24", halve the move of that unit. Then, if you roll under its save characteristic, it takes D3 MWs. That's excellent, and it can come from anywhere in your army.
Artifact: 6+ shrug for the bearer. Becomes a 4+ if you have Teclis in your army. Teclis is great, so that's a very real possibility.

Of the Great Nations, I personally like Zaitrec, but Ymetrica is excellent if you're going Alarith heavy. Syar seems tactical, but not worth the worse Trait/Artifact. Iliatha has some combos, but I don't particularly find that appealing. None seem particularly "bad", which is great.


Three Named Heroes and two generic. Here we go:

Teclis
There's a lot to unpack here. First, he puts out a +1 cast/dispel/unbind aura for friendly Wizards, which again, includes Battleline Units. He can attempt to unbind any number of spells, and can automatically unbind one per turn. He can automatically dispel one Endless spell per turn. Additionally, allies within his aura (12" degrading) ignore Spells and Endless Spells on a 4+, and if they ignore, they can blast a nearby enemy for d3 MWs for good measure. Magical supremacy even Tzeentch is jealous of.

Then there's his own magic. He either casts one spell which autocasts and cannot be unbound, two spells that autocast on 12s, or four spells that autocast on 10s. None of those rolls can be modified. Basically, assess how good your opponent is as stopping spells and cast accordingly. Even 11+ is hard to roll for an unbind, not to mention that the rest of your army is also casting spells.

He has two spells, one that puts out a 5+ shrug aura at 18" (can't be up at the same time as Protection of Hysh), and the other deals d3 or d6 Mortal wounds to all enemies in 18".

The downside is his statline. 16 Wounds on a 4+ is relatively sturdy, but not unkillable. Especially if he doesn't get his shrug spell up, he's quite delicate to ranged damage output. in combat, he has some good attacks, solid damage but low number of dice, but you'll want to leave him out of combat until it's safe to go in. He won't die to a stiff breeze, but he will definitely go down to a strong combat unit that gets to him if he doesn't get defenses up first.

Well worth being more than 1/4 of your army, though not required to play the faction.

Light of Eltharion
An excellent beatstick. Expensive, but 6 pretty good attacks with +1 wound on the charge and exploding 6s is good. Not to mention, he ignores modifiers to his save, hit, and wound dice, and halves damage from multi-damage attacks. So he's a reliable beatstick that can survive a lot. Then he's got a MW shooting ability (not attack, so he can run or retreat and still do it), and a CA that gives nearby units Bravery 10. He's a great Hero to stand in the middle of the board and smack opponents.

Avalenor
The named Cow Hero. With 14 wounds on a 3+, and access to Mountain Stance, he's pretty tough. He puts out a -1 hit aura as well, which makes him even tougher in combat. Melee attacks are great, he has a cannon shot, and can treat his table as 0 wounds taken if near a Stonemage. The Command Ability gives d3 Alarith Aelf units (so Stoneguard) +1 attacks. Additionally, if a Hero sticks near him for 2 turns, that Hero can use a Command Ability without spending CP.

Basically, he's a beatstick with some debuffing and buffing abilities. His damage output is pretty crazy with reasonable rolls, and he's durable enough to get in and stay there. Excellent Monster for the points.

Scinari Cathallar
As noted above, you want 1 or 2 just to ignore the Aetherquartz downside. Then, there's the Bravery Bomb. When a friendly unit would take a Battleshock test, on a 2+, they don't take it. Then, pick an enemy unit nearby, and that unit adds the models lost from the friendly unit to their Battleshock roll if they are also taking a test. Which means you can debuff a unit's bravery, let some Wardens die, and then spike the enemy's Bravery so they lose way more models than they would otherwise. Even those Seraphon or Daemons with Bravery 10 are suddenly losing multiple models.

Her spell is also insane: 7+, pick an enemy unit. When it moves, charges, shoots, or fights, roll 2d6. If you roll above the Bravery of that unit, it doesn't do the thing. And you have a bunch of ways to reduce Bravery. Imagine a unit of Eels that get debuffed, charge into combat, and then roll a 9 on the dice and can't fight. That's very, very strong.

Yes, she's squishy and trash in combat, but for the utility, that doesn't matter basically at all.

Alarith Stonemage
As noted with Avalenor, you'll want these guys to buff your Sprit of the Mountain Monsters, but they're also good in general. His spell goes off on a 5+, lets him fly, and halves an enemy unit's movement, which is great, especially in Zaitrec, so you can debuff two units. He also gives nearby Stoneguard units improved Rend, though they cannot pile in if you do so. Which isn't bad, depending on the positioning.

If you're playing Alarith heavy, especially in Ymetrica, you'll want multiple of these guys.


There's only 5 units in the book outside Heroes, but each one is pretty distinct in purpose.

Auralan Wardens
Battleline. Pike aelves with shields, they do what you'd expect. Better against enemies that charge them, because duh. The Leader loses the pike but gains Wizard, as well as once per game 2+ to deal d3 MWs. An excellent basic unit, especially with Shining Company, if a bit uninteresting.

Also, for each one you take, you can make one unit of Sentinels or one unit of Dawnguard Battleline as well. Nice for listbuilding.

Auralan Sentinels
Bow Aelves. Like the Wardens, leader loses the bow but gains Wizard. Also, the Leader can let the unit fire indirectly at a unit they can't see, which is potentially really good if there's a lot of terrain on the board. The bows have two firing modes: 30" but 4+/4+/-/1, or 18" and 3+/4+/-1/1. While they don't have the pure shooting prowess of some archer units in the game, they provide reasonable fire support, especially if they get Power of Hysh to spam MWs at the enemy.

Vanari Dawnriders
Cavalry Aelves. At first glance, they seem a bit uninspired, but their Deathly Furrows ability gives them extra attacks against 1 wound or 2 wound models, making them quite adept at chewing through battleline units or picking off flanking models. With a 14" move, they're basically flying across the board, making them solid firefighters and flankers themselves.

Alarith Stoneguard
Baseline, they seem pretty unappealing. 4" move is almost always bad, and their attacks are ok but nothing special. But, of course, then you add in the buffs from Spirit of the Mountain, the Stonemage, Mountain Stance, etc, and they become pretty efficient killing machines for their price. Of the weapons, I think the Diamondpick Hammers are better. Due to their almost reliance on synergies, you can't really just shove a unit in your list for no reason, and I think they're better if taken in more numbers.

Spirit of the Mountain
Monster Cow. Unlike Avalenor, they aren't Heroes, which is odd since they have a Command Ability. That said, they have a lot of the same things that Avalenor has, just worse. Their -1 hit ability only affects 1 units instead of an area, their Hero-buffing Command Point saver is a shorter range, and their Command Ability is shorter range and affects 1 unit instead of d3. For the very low point differential, you'll usually take Avalenor, but these guys are no joke either, with the same shooting attack, damage 5 weapon, and durability from Mountain Stance. Monster mash lists are going to be interesting for sure!



Hyshian Twinstones
7+ to cast. As you cast near it, it powers up, and then you can draw the power to empower other casts. Did you know Teclis autocasts empower this? Even without him, did you know your basic units are Wizards? For how cheap it is, this should be a consideration in every single Lumineth list.

Sanctum of Amyntok
7+ to cast. It surrounds the caster and infers a -1 to hit and a +1 to save on them. Kind of like a Balewind, without the range boost but you can move with it. Unclear yet if it fits around Teclis's base, nor how it interacts with unit leaders casting it. I like it, but it's not better than the Twinstones for the same price.

Rune of Petrification
8+ to cast. A the start AND end of each move phase, nearby non-Lumineth take d3 MWs on a 4+. Then, -1 to Run and Charge. It's a solid area denial unit, and the fact that it happens twice per player turn is pretty good. That's potentially 6 MWs (with excellent luck) on the turn it comes down to everything in an area. And then slows them. The price is a bit prohibitive, however.


Pretty straightforward here.

Alarith Temple
Either cow, a Stonemage, and 1-3 Stoneguard units. Units near a Hero from this Battalion can get rerolls to save, but only pile in 1". Probably a gimme Battalion if you're running Alarith-heavy Ymetrica.

Auralan Legion
A Cathallar, and either 1/1 or 2/2 Wardens and Sentinels. Units can reroll save rolls of 1 while near each other units from the battalion. Simple, but I like this one, as it lowers your drops a lot and makes your units even tankier on top of their natural -1 to hit.

Dawnrider Lance
2-3 Dawnrider units. Reroll hits of 1 on the charge. Simple, straightforward. If you're running 2-3 Dawnrider units, why not consider it? Makes your Cavalry charge exceedingly deadly.

Teclian Vanguard
Because every army needs a meme megabattalion. Teclis, 0-1 Light of Eltharion, 1 Alarith Temple, 1-3 Auralan Legions, and 2 Dawnrider Lances make you a one-drop that gets 6+ shrug saves across the board. At achingly bare minimum it is nearly a whopping 2600 points, so you'll literally never see this outside of "Apocalypse" games.


And that's it! A reasonable launch size, but there's plenty of variance in the book just from first glance. I'm excited to start on mine, though it may be a while from time of writing before the rest of the range is released.

[LeSwordfish]

Assault of Stone: 8+, Roll a dice per model in enemy unit, if you roll below their save, deal a MW. Horde clearing.

Can you confirm this? Goonhammer is saying it's not per model it's per your casting roll, and 1s and 2s don't work, making it still occasionally scary but not nearly as bad as it seemed.

[Requizen]

Can you confirm this? Goonhammer is saying it's not per model it's per your casting roll, and 1s and 2s don't work, making it still occasionally scary but not nearly as bad as it seemed.

You are correct, I completely read it wrong. Either way it's not great, though might be ok for Teclis autocasting on a 12.

[LeSwordfish]

You are correct, I completely read it wrong. Either way it's not great, though might be ok for Teclis autocasting on a 12.

It would be incredible for wiping out skeleton blocks etc if it was per model - as is, I'm not sure it justifies it's high CV. I suspect it's most scary against well-protected low-save heroes.

[Cikomyr2]

So I swung by the warhammer shop this week end to resupply on paint, washes and glazes, and I saw the Kharadron Overlords models for the first time.

THEY
ARE
SO
ADORABLE

In my current dnd game, I created the "dwarves who use an absurd amount of technomagi" as a generic antagonist, and oh my god the little bubble magical jetpack, the bubble sky cutters, they are so cuuuuute.

So I bought the starter set just because I couldn't resist. I don't plan to actually play the game, I just wanted my crack miniatures.

I wanted to check what was the tactical philopshy of the Kharadron? They seem to be airship and ranged weaponry, so.. Some sort of Imperial Guard equivalent?

[Requizen]

So I swung by the warhammer shop this week end to resupply on paint, washes and glazes, and I saw the Kharadron Overlords models for the first time.

THEY
ARE
SO
ADORABLE

In my current dnd game, I created the "dwarves who use an absurd amount of technomagi" as a generic antagonist, and oh my god the little bubble magical jetpack, the bubble sky cutters, they are so cuuuuute.

So I bought the starter set just because I couldn't resist. I don't plan to actually play the game, I just wanted my crack miniatures.

I wanted to check what was the tactical philopshy of the Kharadron? They seem to be airship and ranged weaponry, so.. Some sort of Imperial Guard equivalent?

They are definitely more focused on ranged weaponry, though they're not afraid to brawl hand to hand when the situation calls for it (mostly balloon units and Heroes). The lore has them more focused on mid-ranged firepower - deck sweepers, semi-automatic rifles, and volleyguns all excel a bit closer on the field. To accomplish this, they practice rapid redeployment by dropping in and out of their Airships to where is needed on the battlefield, supported by fast-moving Endrinriggers (balloon boys).

Even if you don't play, if you're interested in the lore, consider picking up the Battletome (army rulebook). It's a lot of background, lore, and excellent paint schemes to drool over :smallsmile:

[Requizen]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/

FAQs and point changes for armies not caught in GHB2020. There's quite a bit of small tweaks, but big ones to note:

-Petrifex Elite changed from "+1 save" to "reroll save rolls of 1". Which is good, because 3+ save horde Battleline was awful. The other subfactions are still good though. Heck, even reroll 1s across the army is pretty solid still.
-Pink Horrors got a double nerf: points went up, and the Gaunt Summoner can only summon 5 now instead of 10. Excellent change - keeps them viable but does hit them appropriately.
-Kroak went completely unchanged. Seraphon will be top dogs for the next Tournament cycle (assuming there is one).
-Salamanders totally went up in points though. As if people were actually paying for them instead of summoning.
-Kharadron boats dropped across the board again, "Please buy Kharadron boats," says the GW team.
-Steam Tanks (both basic and Hero) dropped a bit, not enough to make that army competitive, but if you were playing it for fun anyways, now you have more points. And it's a cool army.

Overall slight changes, but good changes.

Except Seraphon. I guess they really want to sell out of those Kroak models that are taking up space in the warehouse.

[LansXero]

Which is good, because 3+ save horde Battleline was awful.

So it went from Battletome: Petrifex Elite to Battletome: Katakros and Mortis Praetorians huh?

[9mm]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/

FAQs and point changes for armies not caught in GHB2020. There's quite a bit of small tweaks, but big ones to note:

-Petrifex Elite changed from "+1 save" to "reroll save rolls of 1 AGAINST MELEE". Which is good, because 3+ save horde Battleline was awful. The other subfactions are still good though. Heck, even reroll 1s across the army is pretty solid still.

updated to what it actually says. Petrifex is dead, OBR will cut what they need to take Katakros and going back to being 3+ as Praetorians.


So it went from Battletome: Petrifex Elite to Battletome: Katakros and Mortis Praetorians huh?
yes.

[Requizen]

updated to what it actually says. Petrifex is dead, OBR will cut what they need to take Katakros and going back to being 3+ as Praetorians.


Sure, not that it matters, since like you said people won't even use Petrifex anymore. Though they're still pretty good at combat.

OBR are still a good faction. Good units, Relentless Discipline is excellent, and no Battleshock and giant bricks of hardy Battleline is, unsurprisingly, actually kinda stupid. If they do the midway points errata in Jan/Feb (and there are enough events to make changes from), I can see some further point adjustments there.

Also, where the **** is my Lumineth second wave?

[9mm]

Sure, not that it matters, since like you said people won't even use Petrifex anymore. Though they're still pretty good at combat.

OBR are still a good faction. Good units, Relentless Discipline is excellent, and no Battleshock and giant bricks of hardy Battleline is, unsurprisingly, actually kinda stupid. If they do the midway points errata in Jan/Feb (and there are enough events to make changes from), I can see some further point adjustments there.


OBR are not a good faction, they are an easy to play noob stomper faction. Yes there is a difference. The top factions are still Seraphon, Cities, LoCA, and Tzeench. Solo Overlords might be top tier now after GW lost their damn minds with the points decreases, but for now its just more gravy for Tempest Eye.

Data is still coming for Lumineth but it looks like they'll just be a Teclis delivery system.

This GHB and FAQ may be worse overall for the game than GHB 2109 was when you consider whats actually happening at the top tables.

[Requizen]

OBR are not a good faction, they are an easy to play noob stomper faction. Yes there is a difference. The top factions are still Seraphon, Cities, LoCA, and Tzeench. Solo Overlords might be top tier now after GW lost their damn minds with the points decreases, but for now its just more gravy for Tempest Eye.

Data is still coming for Lumineth but it looks like they'll just be a Teclis delivery system.

This GHB and FAQ may be worse overall for the game than GHB 2109 was when you consider whats actually happening at the top tables.

Cities (namely Hallowheart) got tempered a bit with the change to Hallowheart abilities and the limit on Endless Spells. Soul Bridge gunlines are pretty good still, however, but with the bridge going up to 100 points, it'll get reconfigured a bit. The Tzeentch changes weren't quite enough, but it does get dropped a small amount. I don't think the gulf between top tier and high competitive is that large, personally, though it's all very subjective.

The more I read the LRL book, the more I think Teclis might be a meta-trap. In a hard shooting meta, he just dies quickly. 16 wounds 4+ seems good, but my Longstrikes can clear that in one turn of shooting, and the new Vanguard Auxiliary list can out-drop LRL and gimp Teclis before the game starts. However, against lists that are higher drop or without good ranged damage, he turns on all his defensive stuff basically for free and boosts the rest of the army quite a bit.

Still, I think he might be more like Allarielle than Nagash - there will be lists that use him to good effect, but it's not the only build in the book. Vanari horde lists and Ymetrica double Spirit of the Mountain lists both look quite powerful in their own ways as well.

[PraetorDragoon]

Didn't expect those KO boat point decreases, but I don't mind them.

Petrifex nerf was worse than I expected, but pretty much needed a nerf.

[LeSwordfish]

OBR are not a good faction, they are an easy to play noob stomper faction. Yes there is a difference. The top factions are still Seraphon, Cities, LoCA, and Tzeench. Solo Overlords might be top tier now after GW lost their damn minds with the points decreases, but for now its just more gravy for Tempest Eye.

Out of interest, where can I see these top-tier Seraphon lists?

[9mm]

Out of interest, where can I see these top-tier Seraphon lists?

Mostly on Discord right now: standard core has been Krocknado, skinks and Salamander spam.

[LansXero]

The top factions are still Seraphon, Cities, LoCA, and Tzeench.

Sorry, whats LoCA?

[Requizen]

Sorry, whats LoCA?

Legion of Chaos Ascendant. Effectively Be'lakor's legion, the whole army gets a 6+ shrug, chance to get a free summon once per turn (one Hero can summon if you roll a 10+ on 3d6), and some other bonuses to non-monster Daemon units (return models, fight before they die, etc). It's good.

[druid91]

Honestly, I really like the Anvil of Apotheosis rules. And it's great they have points costs.

[Requizen]

Honestly, I really like the Anvil of Apotheosis rules. And it's great they have points costs.

I really love it a lot, I'm sad it's come at a time where few events or pickup games are happening. I'd love to make a beatstick Boar rider Hero for my Bonesplitterz, or a mounted Priest for my Stormcast.

[druid91]

I've had about 70 Skeletons languishing unbuilt because I couldn't muster enthusiasm for my legions of Nagash army. It was just something I was making in order to have an AoS army. Then Ossiarchs came out, I made those instead and never built the skeletons.....

But now, I could try my hand at a fairly major kitbash and make a Necrofex Colossus, with a Vampire pirate captain atop it, to act as a centerpiece. Right now I'm imagining no small amount of Green-stuff, + bits of the Gloomtide shipwreck. Maybe some bits off of the Gothizzar Harvester.

[Brookshw]

But now, I could try my hand at a fairly major kitbash and make a Necrofex Colossus, with a Vampire pirate captain atop it, to act as a centerpiece. Right now I'm imagining no small amount of Green-stuff, + bits of the Gloomtide shipwreck. Maybe some bits off of the Gothizzar Harvester.

You may want to consider the Reaper Shipwreck Revenant (https://www.reapermini.com/miniatures/77627) as a starting point.

[LeSwordfish]

Been trying to reconcile "what I like" and "what is good" in Seraphon lists. These two look much more my speed than the usual tourney winners:

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw

Leaders

Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- General
- War Spear
- Command Trait: Dominant Predator
- Artefact: Eviscerating Blade
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell: Celestial Harmony
Skink Starseer (140)
- Spell: Hand of Glory

Battleline

15 x Saurus Knights (300)
- Blades
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Blades
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

Units

20 x Chameleon Skinks (360)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs

Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw

Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (250)
- Artefact: Blade of Realities
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- General
- War Spear
- Command Trait: Dominant Predator
- Artefact: Eviscerating Blade
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell: Tide of Serpents
Skink Starseer (140)
- Spell: Bind Endless Spell
Slann Starmaster (260)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
Firelance Temple-host (160)
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)
Bound Purple Sun of Shyish (60)
Bound The Burning Head (40)
Bound Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (40)
Bound Quicksilver Swords (40)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100

Obviously both need some adjustments to swap out the chameleon skinks and glut of Endless Spells respectively, but I'm starting to suspect that I could run pretty much whatever I wanted if the core of it was a Kroaknado/Slannado. Perhaps the first one - swap the Chameleon Skinks for another twenty ordinary skinks, grab a Balewind Vortex, and have about 150pts left for something.

[Cikomyr2]

I was wondering. Since I noticed all Kharadon heads and faces are actually helmets, do we know if the Kharadon still look normal under there? Has there been images of unhelmeted Kharadon?

I started testing out my paint schemes, and the fact that they are all masked really can make them cool Evil Empire mooks.

[Avaris]

I was wondering. Since I noticed all Kharadon heads and faces are actually helmets, do we know if the Kharadon still look normal under there? Has there been images of unhelmeted Kharadon?

I started testing out my paint schemes, and the fact that they are all masked really can make them cool Evil Empire mooks.

I think there’s only the one image of an unarmoured Kharadon, and that’s from the back, seen here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/03/19/coming-to-the-mortal-realms-this-april/

[LeSwordfish]

There are some in the battletome I believe.

[Requizen]

Been trying to reconcile "what I like" and "what is good" in Seraphon lists. These two look much more my speed than the usual tourney winners:

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw

Leaders

Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- General
- War Spear
- Command Trait: Dominant Predator
- Artefact: Eviscerating Blade
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell: Celestial Harmony
Skink Starseer (140)
- Spell: Hand of Glory

Battleline

15 x Saurus Knights (300)
- Blades
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Blades
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

Units

20 x Chameleon Skinks (360)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs

Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw

Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (250)
- Artefact: Blade of Realities
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- General
- War Spear
- Command Trait: Dominant Predator
- Artefact: Eviscerating Blade
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell: Tide of Serpents
Skink Starseer (140)
- Spell: Bind Endless Spell
Slann Starmaster (260)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
Firelance Temple-host (160)
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)
Bound Purple Sun of Shyish (60)
Bound The Burning Head (40)
Bound Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (40)
Bound Quicksilver Swords (40)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100

Obviously both need some adjustments to swap out the chameleon skinks and glut of Endless Spells respectively, but I'm starting to suspect that I could run pretty much whatever I wanted if the core of it was a Kroaknado/Slannado. Perhaps the first one - swap the Chameleon Skinks for another twenty ordinary skinks, grab a Balewind Vortex, and have about 150pts left for something.
First one has Kroak and Skinks, it's good. Though I think Chameleon Skinks are often better in smaller units rather than one big brick.

Second list has too many Endless Spells. You can only take 3 in a 2000 point list now. I think Knights are.... kinda bad in general, but honestly if you have enough of them you can go fast and do ok.

I was wondering. Since I noticed all Kharadon heads and faces are actually helmets, do we know if the Kharadon still look normal under there? Has there been images of unhelmeted Kharadon?

I started testing out my paint schemes, and the fact that they are all masked really can make them cool Evil Empire mooks.

The Soulbound book has some images of them without their helmets on. They look like... Dwarves, honestly. Shorter beards or sometimes clean shaven, since they need to fit in their helmets, but overall the same variety that you'd get with Dispossessed. They stay in helmets 90% of the time for practical purposes, but they don't need the suits to live on the ground or in general.

[LeSwordfish]

First one has Kroak and Skinks, it's good. Though I think Chameleon Skinks are often better in smaller units rather than one big brick.

Second list has too many Endless Spells. You can only take 3 in a 2000 point list now. I think Knights are.... kinda bad in general, but honestly if you have enough of them you can go fast and do ok.

I've heard a mix of opinions on Knights and frankly they seem Just Fun. I kind of just want them and a scary monster. The Chameleon Skinks are presumably for teleporting around onto objectives, hence why it's a big block I guess, big enough to take an objective and survive. I might be tempted to run as Starborne instead to let anyone do that, although +2 attacks on all the knights is tempting.

How about instead:

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Fangs of Sotek

Leaders

Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell: Hand of Glory
Skink Starseer (140)
- Spell: Celestial Harmony
Skink Oracle on Troglodon (220)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- General
- Warblade
- Artefact: Serpent God Dagger

Battleline

5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Blades
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Blades
20 x Skinks (120)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
20 x Skinks (120)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs

Balewind Vortex (40)
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 134


Kroak gets a vortex and a bodyguard, and a Troglodon to cast spells through, which gives me essentially complete board coverage with his nukes. Fangs Of Sotek lets my chaff skinks spread out across half the board on the first turn, and the knight units are still pretty tough and big.

If the Troglodon is the general instead, I can swap the Fangs Of Sotek "yet another command point" command trait for a standard one, probably giving him +1 save for 12 wounds, 3+ save, regenerating.

[9mm]

So I've got to play Force the Hand and Blades Edge so far in this weekends TTS tourny. I really dig em.

also if you want to meme as Seraphon run the following and name each dino


Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Thunder Lizard
Mortal Realm: Chamon

Leaders
Stegadon with Skink Chief (250)
- General
- Command Trait: Prime Warbeast
- Artefact: Fusil of Conflaguration
- Weapon: Sunfire Throwers
Skink Starseer (140)
- Spell: Hand of Glory

Battleline
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
Stegadon (240)
- Weapon: Skystreak Bow
Stegadon (240)
- Weapon: Skystreak Bow

Behemoths
Dread Saurian (420)
Dread Saurian (420)
Bastiladon (220)
- Weapon: Solar Engine

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 125


meanwhile playing against Karhadrons is exhausting.

[Cikomyr2]

So I've got to play Force the Hand and Blades Edge so far in this weekends TTS tourny. I really dig em.

also if you want to meme as Seraphon run the following and name each dino


Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Thunder Lizard
Mortal Realm: Chamon

Leaders
Stegadon with Skink Chief (250)
- General
- Command Trait: Prime Warbeast
- Artefact: Fusil of Conflaguration
- Weapon: Sunfire Throwers
Skink Starseer (140)
- Spell: Hand of Glory

Battleline
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
Stegadon (240)
- Weapon: Skystreak Bow
Stegadon (240)
- Weapon: Skystreak Bow

Behemoths
Dread Saurian (420)
Dread Saurian (420)
Bastiladon (220)
- Weapon: Solar Engine

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 125


meanwhile playing against Karhadrons is exhausting.

Why is it exhausting?

[9mm]

Why is it exhausting?

they have an Ironclad and 6 gunhaulers: I have 4" movement.

[Cikomyr2]

they have an Ironclad and 6 gunhaulers: I have 4" movement.

So.. They are fast, and you are slow. They quickly take objectives while you have to play catch-up?

I thought the advantage of the Kharadron were the Fly High/Deepstrike of their flying units.

Also, I've read on the internet that the gun hauler is a suboptimal use of point compared to the frigate or the ironclad. Care to comment on that?

[9mm]

So.. They are fast, and you are slow. They quickly take objectives while you have to play catch-up?

That and we estimate he killed ~150 skeletons by the end of the game.

The other reason is Legions of Nagash is positioning restrictions the army, that Khadrons mobility and shooting exasperates.



I thought the advantage of the Kharadron were the Fly High/Deepstrike of their flying units.

that and they are a 40K army in the wrong game. That much shooting all with rend is VERY powerful.


Also, I've read on the internet that the gun hauler is a suboptimal use of point compared to the frigate or the ironclad. Care to comment on that?
checks out, I don't do mathhammer that much, but everyone I know have been more interested in double frigate than gunhauler spam.

[Requizen]

That and we estimate he killed ~150 skeletons by the end of the game.

The other reason is Legions of Nagash is positioning restrictions the army, that Khadrons mobility and shooting exasperates.


that and they are a 40K army in the wrong game. That much shooting all with rend is VERY powerful.

checks out, I don't do mathhammer that much, but everyone I know have been more interested in double frigate than gunhauler spam.

Legions is generally weak against shooting, unless you're rolling with Nagash himself, who is fairly durable against (most) shooting and can support the rest of the army. Still, good dice can cut even the big man down before whittling down the troops. Anything that can clear mobs and prevent them from rezzing will do reasonably well.

The relatively massive drops in KO points is going to make them play very differently, bringing Boats is no longer a burden, and they were relatively buffed in the last book compared to before.

[LeSwordfish]

I wonder if KO are going to be big in the meta now Teclis is around, and the best way to handle him is to shoot him off the board.

[9mm]

Well ended it up 2-1 this TTS tourney.

round 1 Blade's Edge vs Skaven: loss, lost multiple priority rolls so my objectives got burned while skaven happily waited for my army with jezails and ackolytes.
round 2 Forcing the hand vs Boats: Won due to just having bodies and his constant shooting of skeletons over heroes.
round 3 Better Part of Valor vs Big Waagh: he has 4 battleline 10 ardboys, I have 3 battleline 40 skelleton blocks. He didn't quite understand the mission, but even if he did it would have come down to "can Gordrakk and 10 ardboys kill 40 skeletons before 10-20 hexwraiths with a knight of shrouds kill 10 orks."


Forcing the Hand is amazing, Blades edge gets a thumbs up from me because it makes thinking about going first an actual decision (though I think going second is always the right choice), and I'm fairly certain the new Better Part of Valor is going to be Knife to the Heart level of hated.

[9mm]

GHB and Lumineth FAQs are up (https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/)

Well they somewhat answered summoned units and battlefield rolls, Twin stones are indeed hilarious, and Dread Saurains are once again dead.

[Requizen]

GHB and Lumineth FAQs are up (https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/)

Well they somewhat answered summoned units and battlefield rolls, Twin stones are indeed hilarious, and Dread Saurains are once again dead.

Vanari unit leaders being the only Wizard make them balanced, as you can't buff the whole unit with things like Cogs. It is annoying that other Wizard units get to abuse those rules, though, but them's the breaks.

Yeah Twinstones are an autotake, it's not even funny.

[Requizen]

Did some inventory of my minis. I have the models to run 18 different Warcry factions, 19 when Scions of the Flame come out. If only there wasn't a freaking pandemic on, maybe I could play some games with them.

Don't ask how many are painted vs unpainted.

[Saambell]

Don't ask how many are painted vs unpainted.

Kind of have to as the new generals handbook added a code of conduct page that says you have to ask permission from your opponent to use unpainted models. Which as I understand has sparked a lot of debate and elitism. Ironically from the "casual for fun" people swaggering and lording over others their painting habits and mocking anyone who doesn't as a loser trend chasing power gamer.

[LansXero]

The local community has started playing over TTS, so, considering minis / cost isnt an issue, whats the best Cities one could currently run?

[Requizen]

The local community has started playing over TTS, so, considering minis / cost isnt an issue, whats the best Cities one could currently run?

I haven't kept up much since GHB2020, I know previously Hallowheart with Endless spells and Wizards were good, but both got nerfed. Still, I'd argue it still works well, as one of the big powerful options is shooting units (XBows or Handgunners) teleporting with the Bridge or Boat. Hallowheart making an easy cast Bridge that they can jump over and blast enemies off the board sounds pretty good to me.

I know the new KO updates had some implications for Tempests Eye, but I wasn't paying too close attention during quarantine.

Otherwise, Living City has fun shooting shenanigans, especially if you pop in some Kurnoth or Stormcast shooters.. I'd have to poke at new points, but the book is really flexible in a lot of ways, especially if you dip into Stormcast/Sylvaneth/KO options.

[LeSwordfish]

The one that crushed me into the ground was as follows:

Les Martin
Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar - City: Hallowheart
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Leaders
Knight-Incantor (140)
- General - Trait: Veteran of the BlazingCrusade
- Spell: Lore of Whitefire
- Ignite Weapons (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: ElementalCyclone
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Artefact: Cleansing Brooch
- Spell: Lore of Whitefire - Sear Wounds (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: Crystal Aegis
Luminark of Hysh With White Battlemage (270)
- Artefact: Whitefire Tome
- All Spells
Battlemage (90) - Spell: Lore of Whitefire
- Warding Brand (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: Roaming Wildfire
- Mortal Realm: Azyr
Sorceress (90) - Spell: Lore of Whitefire
- Roaming Wildfire (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: Warding Brand
Battleline
30 x Freeguild Handgunners (300)
30 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (300)
10 x Freeguild Guard (80) - Swords and Shields - City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
Battalions
Whitefire Retinue (140)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Everblaze Comet (100)
Soulscream Bridge (80)
Quicksilver Swords (30)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107

Gonna lose a certain something without as many endless spells but only the soulscream bridge is strictly necessary for what it does.

[Requizen]

The one that crushed me into the ground was as follows:

Les Martin
Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar - City: Hallowheart
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Leaders
Knight-Incantor (140)
- General - Trait: Veteran of the BlazingCrusade
- Spell: Lore of Whitefire
- Ignite Weapons (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: ElementalCyclone
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Artefact: Cleansing Brooch
- Spell: Lore of Whitefire - Sear Wounds (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: Crystal Aegis
Luminark of Hysh With White Battlemage (270)
- Artefact: Whitefire Tome
- All Spells
Battlemage (90) - Spell: Lore of Whitefire
- Warding Brand (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: Roaming Wildfire
- Mortal Realm: Azyr
Sorceress (90) - Spell: Lore of Whitefire
- Roaming Wildfire (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: Warding Brand
Battleline
30 x Freeguild Handgunners (300)
30 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (300)
10 x Freeguild Guard (80) - Swords and Shields - City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
Battalions
Whitefire Retinue (140)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Everblaze Comet (100)
Soulscream Bridge (80)
Quicksilver Swords (30)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107

Gonna lose a certain something without as many endless spells but only the soulscream bridge is strictly necessary for what it does.

Yeah, as far as I can tell, the points didn't change much, Bridge and Battlemage up and Incantor down, plus you have to drop two endless spells, so it's about the same or cheaper overall. Teleport shooting units, drop Comet, support with Hurricanum/Luminark ranged power. Hallowheart can't empower as hard with their Arcane Channeling rule, but it's still enough to make their spells quite reliable.

I think this is the "meta" list, but there's enough variety in that book that good lists exist other than this one.