OOTS #1187 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Erythrina]

Now Elan is my even-more-favourite character.

[The MunchKING]

That is quite touching actually...

[mjasghar]

Just as planned

[danielxcutter]

Wow, I'm actually surprised a comic updated when I was looking at the page. Nice.

I'm also surprised to see just how far Elan has come for the past 1k+ strips, and how he still cares for Roy like he did since the day they first met.

[Rinion]

Oh, Elan. Already squeezing in a little more of that character growth.

[Grey Watcher]

I love the last panel. Haley and Elan really do make a great couple.

[The Pilgrim]

Looks like Elan has improved his inspirational speech skill since the Battle for Azure City.

[Aron Times]

Haven't commented in an OOTS discussion thread in ages. Doing so now because this strip actually made me laugh out loud early in the morning. GG Mr. Burlew. :biggrin:

[HorizonWalker]

Looks like Elan has improved his inspirational speech skill since the Battle for Azure City.

That would, I think, be Perform(Oratory). A reasonable Perform specialization for Bards to pick up, since it can be done without any equipment.

[Garwain]

Roy foreshadowing stunning plot revelations feels a bit artificial to me. Anyway, when Roy seems to be absent minded, is it me or is the whole group looking at Durkon in panel 3 for some wiser words?

[Great Dane]

This issue warms my heart!

[Morquard]

Elan proofs once again why he's my favorite. His heart really is in the right place

[DCR]

Roy foreshadowing stunning plot revelations feels a bit artificial to me. Anyway, when Roy seems to be absent minded, is it me or is the whole group looking at Durkon in panel 3 for some wiser words?

... Not many would look to Elan or Belkar for wisdom

[Jannoire]

Roy foreshadowing stunning plot revelations feels a bit artificial to me. Anyway, when Roy seems to be absent minded, is it me or is the whole group looking at Durkon in panel 3 for some wiser words?

I liked it, because it shows once again that everybody knows they're in a comic story of fantasy parody...

I thought so, too, because Durkon knows Roy the best and longest of them all. Maybe he can make sense of Drunken Roy...

[RMS Oceanic]

Elan knows how to apply a defibrillator to the mood. :smallbiggrin:

[Ornithologist]

I figured it out, why I like drink roy so much. Drunk Roy is Meta-Roy. And I have such a soft spot for meta nonsense.

[hamishspence]

Elan speeches have come a long way since Azure City.

[hroþila]

Roy foreshadowing stunning plot revelations feels a bit artificial to me.
It's not very different from telling Elan to look for the most dramatically appropriate place for Girard's Gate to be. He's not obsessed with comic conventions, but like every single character he acknowledges them.

[username1]

Great comic! Made me laugh out loud.

[Ron Miel]

Even the Azure City speech was great and inspirational, up until the final line, where he undid it all. His improved skills may just consist of learning when to stop.

[Peelee]

Even the Azure City speech was great and inspirational, up until the final line, where he undid it all. His improved skills may just consist of learning when to stop.

Interestingly, Haley has been helping with that!

[Stabbey]

I never knew there were so many ways to subvert the "inspiring speech" trope in clever ways, but the Giant keeps surprising me. Well done! :smallbiggrin:

[Xihirli]

Aw... they're in love.

[Themrys]

I love how Haley is the only one who saw through him.

She is really a great person, and possibly the only one who could be in a relationship with Elan without it being somewhat creepy. She actually respects and even admires him. Most people (Roy, for example) treat Elan like an incompetent toddler who needs constant babysitting.

Haley notices when Elan does something extremely competent, and that makes a world of a difference.

[faustin]

Did Elan just bull****ed the entire group?:confused:

[Peelee]

Did Elan just bull****ed the entire group?

Well bull**** is Charisma based. :smallwink:

[Lord Torath]

Elan's really come a long way in his "inspiring (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0421.html)" speeches (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0776.html).

Thanks, Rich!

[Hekko]

Love this!

The strip where Roy decides to not sleep because no-one can be trusted to stand guard (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0014.html) is one of my favourites.

[Elanasaurus]

Nice callback to #14 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0014.html) too.

eta: Wait, how was i ninja'd!?

[Agi Hammerthief]

„calibrating proudness“ is code for „let’s go and make out“?

[137beth]

Two end-of-book leader speeches in a row are on the airship, yay!

Also, good job Elan.

[Resileaf]

Words of wisdom from both Elan and Roy. I feel blessed.

[crayzz]

„calibrating proudness“ is code for „let’s go and make out“?

Its code for "what you did is impressive no matter how I look at it" AND for "let's go make out".

[2D8HP]

No love for "I thought he had an undiagnosed medical condition"?

That's what gave me chuckles.

[Quebbster]

Love this!

The strip where Roy decides to not sleep because no-one can be trusted to stand guard (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0014.html) is one of my favourites.

To be fair, the rest of the Order has had a lot of character growth since then too...

[Ron Miel]

Did Elan just bull****ed the entire group?:confused:

In a real sense, no he didn't. Everything he said was the truth. Roy really does trust them all much more than he used to.

[i6uuaq]

That's so sweet...

[factotum]

Elan being moderately competent? Boy, he really *has* changed since Azure City!

[Jay R]

It helped accurately calibrate my respect for Elan, too.

[axus]

Elan's dad would be proud, too!

[Zhorn]

I feel inspired

[Lheticus]

Woah, Elan just made a speech that was actually inspiring. And you know, it totally makes sense--the world IS coming to an end after all. Although, if I were the IFCC seeing this, I'd be checking whether someone had messed with the thermostat recently. :smalltongue:

[HandofShadows]

Character Growth on so many levels. :smallcool:

[Psyren]

Didn't he sleep through the party handling Nale? :smalltongue:

Great callback to Roy's sleepless nights (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0014.html) Giant!

[Ninjaman]

New comic is up.

Wait... did Elan do something... clever?

[DCR]

Wait... did Elan do something... clever?

Deliberately, even! It's rather amazing. (https://imgur.com/YAGpXPd)

[Kelenius]

Wow, Elan making an inspiring speech that doesn't immediately backfire? How far we've come.

[Darkohaku]

Nice for Roy, he is really confortable around the rest of the Order, everyone has grown so much since the first strips.

This books is nearing and ending? I still can see like a 20 or more strips before the end of the book.

Cheers!

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Aww, Elan. What a touching strip.

[KorvinStarmast]

Minrah: I'm so confused.

Welcome to the Order of the Stick, Minrah. You did volunteer.

Elan: Stumbling off in a drunken stupor to pass out in his bunk is the ultimate vote of confidence

I had a boss like that once. :smallannoyed:

Enjoyed the strip. Elan is doing what he's supposed to be doing.
He's inspiring people.
It's a whole Bard thing.

[gatemansgc]

Nice callback to #14 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0014.html) too.

eta: Wait, how was i ninja'd!?

you were ninja'd cause people were thinking the same thing LOL

[chy03001]

That was such a meta comment on Elan's part.

I can totally see what his dad meant when he said bards should be ruling the world and not singing in taverns.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I shouldn't laugh that hard while recovering from a bout of bronchitis.

[Anarion]

That was awesome on Elan’s part. Especially since every other time he’s tried to inspire people directly, it has backfired. And hey, it really does show how much everyone has grown over the comic.

Considering how tough Roy is though, he must have consumed a LOT of off panel beers to be that out of it.

[Psychronia]

I never expected Elan to know how to be inspiring.

This is...touching and pride-inducing.

[TheNecrocomicon]

This books is nearing and ending? I still can see like a 20 or more strips before the end of the book.

I mean, I think so -- theoretically, the book could end next strip, but I can also see how it could be several or more at this point. It just seems to keep slowly inching bit by bit towards a formal conclusion.

There's a bit more inherent vulnerability to arc fatigue and ending fatigue when OotS typically advances a page (or rarely two) about every week or so. I recall people raging near the beginning of this book that it wasn't getting going as fast as they wanted it to. It's just a symptom of an impatient world inuring us to immediate gratification, not to mention us getting spoiled by other webcomics out there that are much more prolific (and often simpler to draw and produce).

One factor, though, in the book ending sooner rather than later is that there is a publisher out there waiting for the complete volume so that it can be printed and shipped. So my bet is on this book ending in 1d4 strips/pages, rather than 1d20.

[Turin_19]

Well, in the past few comic-days, the team has done everything.

Haley in the last comic just agreed things up with Bandana.
Elan now has just fixed his speech.
Belkar saved Durkon (and Roy realized that).

This whole book has shown how less Roy-dependent the group is now. But mostly, it's amazing to think how next book will be.

It will be the badassest OOTS ever.

Also: it is GREAT how the background is developing, Mr. Giant, and the mountains passing by slowly behind Elan is amazing artwork!

[Windscion]

Minrah: I'm so confused.

Welcome to the Order of the Stick, Minrah. You did volunteer.
This. So much this.

[Hiro Quester]

I had never noticed before how the art style, with everyone having slightly different-sized eyes, uses perspective to make it clear where each person is looking. It's very clear in panels 3 and 4.

And now I look back at the very early strips, I see that style was always there.

It's another example of how very subtle elements of how the characters are drawn convey story elements that we all process, without noticing the skill and foresight behind creating the effect.
Kudos, Rich.

[diplomancer]

This. So much this.

And she's probably thinking "wait, are THESE the super heroes who are supposed to save the world?"

[Aidan]

A moment of maturity and wisdom from Elan,

Nice

[ShadeSwift]

The best part is how nothing Elan said was actually false, he just put a different spin on it. Said like a true bard! :smallsmile:

[jmucchiello]

Awwww.............

[Windscion]

And she's probably thinking "wait, are THESE the super heroes who are supposed to save the world?"

Schlock 70 maxims: The army you have is never the army you want.
Roy: It's a dirty job, but some PC has to do it.

[Quizatzhaderac]

No love for "I thought he had an undiagnosed medical condition"?

That's what gave me chuckles.My favorite as well.

Strangely appropriate that Belkar would notice a sleeping disorder but not somebody being worried that he might kill them in their sleep.

[warmachine]

So if a problem is solved while Roy is asleep, will he regard the entire team as reliable and trustworthy or only specific members kept the rest in line?

[Fyraltari]

Elan best bard.


„calibrating proudness“ is code for „let’s go and make out“?
With these two everything is code for ‘let’s go and make out.’

My favorite as well.

Strangely appropriate that Belkar would notice a sleeping disorder but not somebody being worried that he might kill them in their sleep.
He is used to the second one.

[JonahFalcon]

Nice callback to #14 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0014.html) too.

eta: Wait, how was i ninja'd!?

I was ninja'd too.

[Resileaf]

Plot twist: Roy has a hangover for the entirety of the next book.

[Ron Miel]

That was awesome on Elan’s part. Especially since every other time he’s tried to inspire people directly, it has backfired.

Has it? Azure city, yes. But the EOB speech was intended to demoralise the people, and worked.

[elros]

I didn't see orange circles around Belkar, so does that mean he sobered up before Roy?
It makes me wonder if Belkar has better fortitude save than Roy, if he just rolled better for his fortitude save, or if he has ranks in Handle (alcohol).

[Darkone]

Somebody will have to check, but on top of being a great strip, it may have established a record as to 'the furthest callback in a webcomic', since it beats hilgya by a small margin ^^

[Dion]

Plot twist: Roy has a hangover for the entirety of the next book.

Heck, the last book was only like 8 days. At this pace, the next book is only going to be six hours. He won’t even finish sleeping it off.

[Peelee]

I was ninja'd too.

We are all ninja'd on this blessed day.

[theinsulabot]

Love this!

The strip where Roy decides to not sleep because no-one can be trusted to stand guard (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0014.html) is one of my favourites.


Mine too, hence my sig

[mindsword]

Somebody will have to check, but on top of being a great strip, it may have established a record as to 'the furthest callback in a webcomic', since it beats hilgya by a small margin ^^

Not in webcomic history sadly. Nuklear Power had one that was a 1214 page long callback. This one is a 1173 page long callback.

[Lord Torath]

Not in webcomic history sadly. Nuklear Power had one that was a 1214 page long callback. This one is a 1173 page strip long callback.Fixed that for you. I think we need to appeal to the OotS By Page Count (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?338549-OOTS-By-Page-Count) thread to determine the actual number of pages between strips 14 and 1187.

Edit: I was going to ask about whether we need to account for the off-line bonus strips, but then I realized that the term "web comic" sort of requires that we ignore them.

[Breccia]

"Wake me if the world blows up early" is appropriate for everything.

[MossyMeow]

"Wake me if the world blows up early" is appropriate for everything.

I hope Roy at least had the foresight to wear cashmere pajamas for a comfier afterlife, just in case, ya’know, the world blows up while he’s sleeping.

[Anansiil]

Look at Elan, mastering the art of keeping people on their toes. Brilliant, and pleasantly surprising:) (but not too surprising :) )

[Schroeswald]

Has it? Azure city, yes. But the EOB speech was intended to demoralise the people, and worked.
No, it was just a happy coincidence, Elan fully believed he would rally them to throw off their chains.

:vaarsuvius: The chance of Elan succeeding at any task is directly proportionate to the amount of effort he is expending to achieving its inverse. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0776.html)

[D.One]

Somebody will have to check, but on top of being a great strip, it may have established a record as to 'the furthest callback in a webcomic', since it beats hilgya by a small margin ^^

In fact, it pushes Hylgia for third place, if I'm not mistaken, because we had the reference to the Colon Tumor Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1140.html) with a callback of 1133 strips.

[PontificatusRex]

I think Roy's speech makes more sense if you look at it as being more intended for the readers than party...

[Lord Torath]

Somebody will have to check, but on top of being a great strip, it may have established a record as to 'the furthest callback in a webcomic', since it beats hilgya by a small margin ^^By my math, strip 1187 is our 1412.5th online page. Strips 1-14 are all single-page strips, which gives a total of 1398 and one-half online pages between the original strip and the callback.

Does any of this matter? Almost certainly not. But there you have it anyway. :smalltongue:

[D.One]

I'm still waiting for a callback like:

:elan: "I still remember the days when not even you, Haley, would pick me when we divided the team (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0002.html)"

[woweedd]

You know, I think we too often forget that Elan is, in all likelihood, technically the most persuasive person in the world.

[diremage]

Don't try to hard to find an internet-setting callback record here, Schlock Mercenary has been doing a strip a day, continuously, for 19 years and I'm pretty sure 5- and 6-year old callbacks are pretty routine.

Elan is still guaranteed a happy ending, so I don't -think- the world will blow up before Roy finishes his nap, but the Oracle who sold him that gig also tried to convince Belkar that he had successfully murdered a horse. I'm sure he could make a convincing argument that now that Elan has a girlfriend he's had any number of "happy endings" for this story.

Pretty sure we can just cut to a cliffhanger of Xykon going, :xykon: "I found it!" and end the book there.

[Sniccups]

Somebody will have to check, but on top of being a great strip, it may have established a record as to 'the furthest callback in a webcomic', since it beats hilgya by a small margin ^^


Not in webcomic history sadly. Nuklear Power had one that was a 1214 page long callback. This one is a 1173 page long callback.


Fixed that for you. I think we need to appeal to the OotS By Page Count (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?338549-OOTS-By-Page-Count) thread to determine the actual number of pages between strips 14 and 1187.

Edit: I was going to ask about whether we need to account for the off-line bonus strips, but then I realized that the term "web comic" sort of requires that we ignore them.


In fact, it pushes Hylgia for third place, if I'm not mistaken, because we had the reference to the Colon Tumor Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1140.html) with a callback of 1133 strips.


By my math, strip 1187 is our 1412.5th online page. Strips 1-14 are all single-page strips, which gives a total of 1398 and one-half online pages between the original strip and the callback.

Does any of this matter? Almost certainly not. But there you have it anyway. :smalltongue:

The trouble here is that you're counting the number of strips, not the time. If you're going for number of strips, Homestuck has them (https://www.homestuck.com/story/1155) all beat (https://www.homestuck.com/story/7975) with a 6820 page callback. (Homestuck is the record holder for pretty much anything based on webcomic length.)

Based on time however, especially if you only consider time when the comic was continuously updating, this one is the longest at approximately (when did strip 14 come out?) 17 years.

[Reboot]

You know, I think we too often forget that Elan is, in all likelihood, technically the most persuasive person in the world.
He does what he can in an environment hostile to the performing arts.


The trouble here is that you're counting the number of strips, not the time. If you're going for number of strips, Homestuck has them (https://www.homestuck.com/story/1155) all beat (https://www.homestuck.com/story/7975) with a 6820 page callback. (Homestuck is the record holder for pretty much anything based on webcomic length.)

Wikipedia: "A comic strip is a sequence of drawings arranged in interrelated panels to display brief humor or form a narrative..."

That there is illustrated prose.

[Asmodeus1389]

Based on time however, especially if you only consider time when the comic was continuously updating, this one is the longest at approximately (when did strip 14 come out?) 17 years.

I am just now appreciating by how much a margin I am joining this comic already in progress... Just realized I've been reading and rereading for three or four years now...and that's less than a quarter of the time that someone from the beginning has been reading. o.0

I also have to give Rich a shout-out to the changing mountains in the background. Subtle way to show the airship is still moving northward.

[Pearstriker]

One of my favorite things about this comic is the way that ability scores and the like are written into it.

Elans working that Cha, and Haley being the only one with Sense Motive worth a damn was put on display today, and the result is awesome.

Great stuff!

[Sniccups]

Wikipedia: "A comic strip is a sequence of drawings arranged in interrelated panels to display brief humor or form a narrative..."

That there is illustrated prose.

Wikipedia also starts their article on Homestuck by calling it a webcomic. It's a highly unconventional webcomic, sure, but it still counts.

Edit: You might have just been referring to the "number of strips" piece of my post. You're right, Homestuck is not arranged in strips. Pages, then. Means the same thing.

[Mad Humanist]

I wonder if we're going to get a montage of them working together competently as a team, perhaps interspersed with Roy's drunken nightmares.

[kyoryu]

My heart grew three sizes this day.

[Alcore]

as far as speeches in The Order of the Stick goes...


those two ranked up with the best. One for Roy and one for Elan. It didn't suck the mood out or point out how they are all doomed in one manner or another. Elan's was even uplifting which is so rare it probably is the best... no, wait. that undead guy on the horse leading the charge into Azure city was the best. a few (one?) simple lines to get the goblins moving faster... He was the best. He would of killed a PC too if it wasn't for a dragon head.

[KishouTheBadger]

Roy needs to get drunk more often. He's such a riot. He might even get a feat for drunk fighting. Is there a feat for that?

Also, indeed "passing off in a drunken stupor" shows that he's growing as a character... or he just doesn't care as much because he's so drunk and looney. But hey, points to Elan for taking Roy's "advice" so literally he knew what to do fix it.

The Order of the Stick continues to grow as a great, cohesive unit, especially as their numbers grow (Bloodfest and Minrah).

[Wizard_Lizard]

Honestly, Elan is the best.

[Bedinsis]

I was mostly reminded of this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0956.html) strip.

[bunsen_h]

Strangely appropriate that Belkar would notice a sleeping disorder but not somebody being worried that he might kill them in their sleep.

He would notice if someone is awake, because that makes it difficult for him to kill them in their sleep.

He doesn't care why they're awake.

[TuringTest]

I love Elan's awesome awesomeness, which keeps growing along with his character's growth. :smallwink:

Also, I don't usually laugh out loud, but "I just thought he had an undiagnosed medical condition" achieved it; it works as a nice coda to strip #14's joke.

[diremage]

Roy needs to get drunk more often. He's such a riot. He might even get a feat for drunk fighting. Is there a feat for that?

Also, indeed "passing off in a drunken stupor" shows that he's growing as a character... or he just doesn't care as much because he's so drunk and looney. But hey, points to Elan for taking Roy's "advice" so literally he knew what to do fix it.

The Order of the Stick continues to grow as a great, cohesive unit, especially as their numbers grow (Bloodfest and Minrah).

There are entire prestige classes (yes, at least two that I recall) for drunk fighting. I wouldn't be shocked if there was a splat book out there somewhere: The Complete Drunkard, or something.

I could see Roy picking up a copy after he gets torn up by Belkar's valiant, heroic death that he was rooting for until the panel before it happened. Then Roy stays drunk and stubbled for the rest of the comic and ends his adventures by using Xykon's skull to serve tortilla chips after destroying the phylactery.

[understatement]

Bless Roy's inebriated soul.

Betting now that next strip will be a cutaway...? hmm.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

"That was because of us?"

Nice one. :smallbiggrin:

[goodpeople25]

No, it was just a happy coincidence, Elan fully believed he would rally them to throw off their chains.

:vaarsuvius: The chance of Elan succeeding at any task is directly proportionate to the amount of effort he is expending to achieving its inverse. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0776.html)
On the one hand the content of the speech (as well as where it fits in Elan's development) makes a very strong argument for that.

On the other hand the quoted text almost has the opposite effect.

[The MunchKING]

You know, I think we too often forget that Elan is, in all likelihood, technically the most persuasive person in the world.

He's got a massive Charisma bonus, sure. But with all the skill points spent on Perform (kazoo) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0198.html), and such, I'm not sure he actually shelled out for Diplomacy the way, say, O-chul did.

[ti'esar]

Awwwwwwwww.

[Matt620]

I feel like I missed an antecedent somewhere. What did Haley mean at the second to last panel?

[The MunchKING]

I feel like I missed an antecedent somewhere. What did Haley mean at the second to last panel?

Roy just kind of phoned in the speech and then went to bed to sleep off the hangover. Elan turned it from a demoralizing drunk "I don't care" thing into a "He trusts us so much he can leave us alone" thing. So he fixed the speech for Roy. And Haley doesn't know whether he did it on purpose to help Roy, or just honestly thought like that.

[Elenna]

Awww... :smallsmile:

[Finagle]

I can't help but think that in the first frame he is speaking directly to the audience.

Well I guess if you're a fan of OOTS then in the final chapter you're going to get even more OOTS, and that's what we want. "You'll love it."

I notice while Roy is still drunk, Belkar isn't.

[Matt620]

I can't help but think that in the first frame he is speaking directly to the audience.

Well I guess if you're a fan of OOTS then in the final chapter you're going to get even more OOTS, and that's what we want. "You'll love it."

I notice while Roy is still drunk, Belkar isn't.

Roy tanked a Constitution save...

[Petrocorus]

I can't help but think that in the first frame he is speaking directly to the audience.


Looks like it.

I'm waiting for "some stunning plot revelations".

And i like your sig, BTW.

[happycrow]

Elan passed a wisdom check, THEN crits his diplomacy??

What's going on? Elan passed a wisdom check.....

[Finagle]

Looks like it.

I'm waiting for "some stunning plot revelations".

And i like your sig, BTW.
Thanks! I had quite forgotten it was there. Because when you have .sigs turned off, you see...

[Petrocorus]

Thanks! I had quite forgotten it was there. Because when you have .sigs turned off, you see...

Well, i mostly like it for the irony.

[bunsen_h]

I notice while Roy is still drunk, Belkar isn't.

In AD&D Classic, Halflings used to get a Constitution-based bonus against poisons, same as Dwarves. Is that no longer a thing?

[Sutehp]

I was mostly reminded of this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0956.html) strip.

That's right! Elan is absolutely right that Roy left them to their own devices in Strip #1187 because Roy was forced by circumstances beyond his control to do the same thing earlier in Strip 956! That's how, even while being totally inebriated, Roy could trust the Order to their own devices because he did it before! Elan's spin was still the truth!

It's so awesome to see Elan come so far in wisdom, growth, and character development. And it's even better to see how Haley has come to understand him and become a better person just by being near him. They really do make a good couple; they complement each other perfectly.

[Necris Omega]

Minrah: I'm so confused.

Welcome to the Order of the Stick, Minrah. You did volunteer.


This. So much this.

You know, it just kind of occurred to me, that despite being this late in the plot, not only is the Giant adding new PCs, but he's adding a whole narrative trope. Minrah's something of the outsider straight-man, not necessarily a window to represent the audience peaking in, but perhaps better thought of as the Order's own world peaking in.

The OotS has been so saturated in their own zaniness that they've become numb to it, and the long time audience doesn't really have much reference of perspective to highlight it either at this point. Minrah helps highlight those, "wait, what" moments in ways no other character within the Order really can, and not with some sort of 4th wall molesting genre saviness but with an internal worldliness.

Her confusion and eventual immersion (mad descent) into the Order provides an angle that's not just unique, but unique for the stage in which its occurring, which is made more valuable as the levels go up and the distance between reason (OotS*World "reason") and the Epic grows ever wider.

[Emperor Time]

Agree that Elan is truly the best of characters. The heart of the party.

[MReav]

I'm surprised Belkar isn't more drunk. He was boozing alongside Roy and had booze bubbles in his last panel. Did Durkon give him a neutralize poison or something, or did he Rage to burn through the booze since his last comic.

Though a Ranger/Barbarian does gave better base saves than a pure Fighter.

[BriarHobbit]

That was awesome! It was great to see Elan applying himself.

[danielxcutter]

I'm surprised Belkar isn't more drunk. He was boozing alongside Roy and had booze bubbles in his last panel. Did Durkon give him a neutralize poison or something, or did he Rage to burn through the booze since his last comic.

Though a Ranger/Barbarian does gave better base saves than a pure Fighter.

Eh, booze probably doesn't have a super high DC, and besides unless Roy has Steadfast Determination even he's vulnerable to the wonderful world of critical fails.

[mjasghar]

Wait... did Elan do something... clever?

More like he did something Wise
Looks like he increased his Wisdom score with his levels

[Particle_Man]

In AD&D Classic, Halflings used to get a Constitution-based bonus against poisons, same as Dwarves. Is that no longer a thing?

Halflings also don't typically get Scent.

Belkar is . . . unusual in many respects. There has been speculation that perhaps he is not a standard halfling, and what that might mean.

[Peelee]

Halflings also don't typically get Scent.

Belkar is . . . unusual in many respects. There has been speculation that perhaps he is not a standard halfling, and what that might mean.
He's half celestial.

Just kidding. He's really half Haley.

[Fyraltari]

He's half celestial.

Just kidding. He's really half Haley.

First :eek:
Second who would the father even be?

[Peelee]

First :bigyuck:
Second who would the father even be?

A very bitter leaf.

He's also half ent. That's why he hated Durkon.

[D.One]

Halflings also don't typically get Scent.

Belkar is . . . unusual in many respects. There has been speculation that perhaps he is not a standard halfling, and what that might mean.

Halflings have been thematically associated with a better sense of taste and smell, due to being associated with a general purpose glutonny and appreciation of food. That, however, doesn't result in any effective modifier in game mechanics in 3.5 DnD.

Does anyone know of a feat or something similar that grants Scent or smell-related bonuses?

[Windscion]

Halflings also don't typically get Scent.

Belkar is . . . unusual in many respects. There has been speculation that perhaps he is not a standard halfling, and what that might mean.

Look, Belkar is just Wolverine (Logan) shapechanged into a halfling and given false memories.
That's why he gets Scent and is so good at killing stuff.

[wingnutx]

Elan got another point or two of wisdom.

[Kantaki]

:smallbiggrin:Competent Elan is best Elan.:smallbiggrin:

But seriously, he really proves his own words there.
The Order really has grown since their beginnings.
They're still a bunch of incompetent weirdos who bumble their way to victory more often than not, but they have grown indeed.

Poor Minrah looks so confused why this is a good thing.
I wonder if telling her will make it better or worse...:smallamused:

[MossyMeow]

:smallbiggrin:Competent Elan is best Elan.:smallbiggrin:

But seriously, he really proves his own words there.
The Order really has grown since their beginnings.
They're still a bunch of incompetent weirdos who bumble their way to victory more often than not, but they have grown indeed.

Poor Minrah looks so confused why this is a good thing.
I wonder if telling her will make it better or worse...:smallamused:

Yeah, now they can be reasonably referred to as ‘friends’ rather than ‘vaguely friendly co-workers who only sometimes try to murder each other.’

[Petrocorus]

First :eek:
Second who would the father even be?
Pfff... This is like, sooo obvious that this is RedCloak's niece.


Halflings have been thematically associated with a better sense of taste and smell, due to being associated with a general purpose glutonny and appreciation of food. That, however, doesn't result in any effective modifier in game mechanics in 3.5 DnD.

Does anyone know of a feat or something similar that grants Scent or smell-related bonuses?

IIRC, no feat.
Some template did, like the Feral template i believe, from Savage Species. Not SRD.

There was one stance from Tiger Claw school in Tome of Battle which gived Scent too. That would be fitting for Belkar if it was SRD.

Maybe one of the Spirit Totem variant for Barbarians.

In the SRD, i think there are only some Bloodlines like the Lycanthrope (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm#lycanthrope) or the Troll Bloodlines that gives scent.

[Gergle]

Elan, I've never been prouder of you boy.

Kudos to the Giant! Excellent.

[Quizatzhaderac]

Does anyone know of a feat or something similar that grants Scent or smell-related bonuses?You misspelled that. And yes, feet do cause scent.

[Tvtyrant]

:smallbiggrin:Competent Elan is best Elan.:smallbiggrin:

But seriously, he really proves his own words there.
The Order really has grown since their beginnings.
They're still a bunch of incompetent weirdos who bumble their way to victory more often than not, but they have grown indeed.

Poor Minrah looks so confused why this is a good thing.
I wonder if telling her will make it better or worse...:smallamused:

They have actually had a string of none-bumbly victories lately. They beat the vampires very effectively when they fought Durkula, beat the pants off of Tarquin twice (ambush in the dungeon and then again at the "execution") and the giants weren't much of threat except their ship mutinied.

The first fight with Tarquin is the last time they actually bumbled IMO.

Edit: In a weird sense this feels like the conclusion of the story. The original story was about a dysfunctional group that blundered through adventures together stuck in a dungeon, now they are no longer dysfunctional nor bumbling. The later story about saving the world needs wrapping up, but the original dungeon arc just completed.

[D.One]

You misspelled that. And yes, feet do cause scent.

I believe that would grant a penalty most of the times.

[KorvinStarmast]

Minrah helps highlight those, "wait, what" moments in ways no other character within the Order really can, and not with some sort of 4th wall molesting genre saviness but with an internal worldliness. Belkar has carried most of that load for the entirety of the OoTS narrative, though it was often combined with "tactless" and "inconvenient truth teller" in a lot of cases. See the attention he brought to Kudzu's name, for example, the point about trains in the last strip, and the butt chewing he gave Roy in 880 or 881.

It will be nice to see how Minrah acts in that capacity. (And I think you are right in your estimate)

[AutomatedTeller]

I kind of love that, with all that talking, V said absolutely nothing.

Also, undiagnosed medical condition!!

[danielxcutter]

Halflings have been thematically associated with a better sense of taste and smell, due to being associated with a general purpose glutonny and appreciation of food. That, however, doesn't result in any effective modifier in game mechanics in 3.5 DnD.

Does anyone know of a feat or something similar that grants Scent or smell-related bonuses?

Yeah, that sounds like a reasonable explanation for it, honestly. I do know there's a psionic power(imaginatively named Psionic Scent) that grants the scent ability, there's also a Totemist soulmeld I think, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were spells on the Druid list that do that. Neither of which Belkar can use, of course, so it just seems like a flavor thing to me. You know, similar to how Miko uses kicks for her unarmed strikes while Roy and Minrah use punches.

[bunsen_h]

I do know there's a psionic power(imaginatively named Psionic Scent) that grants the scent ability, there's also a Totemist soulmeld I think, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were spells on the Druid list that do that. Neither of which Belkar can use, of course, so it just seems like a flavor thing to me.

Would it be theoretically possible for Belkar to have some psionic ability, under the current rules? In AD&D, any character could (if psionics existed at all in a particular campaign) if they had at least one of INT, WIS, or CHA 16 or higher. I wouldn't expect Belkar to pass with either of the first two, but perhaps that shoeless, sexy god of war would have the CHA.

[danielxcutter]

Would it be theoretically possible for Belkar to have some psionic ability, under the current rules? In AD&D, any character could (if psionics existed at all in a particular campaign) if they had at least one of INT, WIS, or CHA 16 or higher. I wouldn't expect Belkar to pass with either of the first two, but perhaps that shoeless, sexy god of war would have the CHA.

Nah, it's implied he has a low Charisma, the only way to get a psionic power without items is the Hidden Talent feat(which is technically for a high-psionics alternate setting and isn't even on the SRD), and Psionic Scent isn't a 1st-level power, so he can't grab it with Hidden Talent anyways.

[KorvinStarmast]

he has ranks in gourmet chef. He is a Ranger. He has heightened olfactory powers, and has since very early in the OoTS narrative. I'll find the early ref ...

[Ruck]

Elan's really come a long way in his "inspiring (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0421.html)" speeches (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0776.html).

Thanks, Rich!

From demoralizing to befuddling to inspiring. Real progress!


This books is nearing and ending? I still can see like a 20 or more strips before the end of the book.

Heh, I've been guessing "3-5 strips" for a while because I had no idea how many of these type airship strips we'd get. Now that we've had two, I might revise my guess to 1-3.


In AD&D Classic, Halflings used to get a Constitution-based bonus against poisons, same as Dwarves. Is that no longer a thing?

No idea, but I'll repeat my speculation that Belkar has far more experience getting drunk than Roy.


Roy just kind of phoned in the speech and then went to bed to sleep off the hangover. Elan turned it from a demoralizing drunk "I don't care" thing into a "He trusts us so much he can leave us alone" thing. So he fixed the speech for Roy. And Haley doesn't know whether he did it on purpose to help Roy, or just honestly thought like that.

Ooo, well explained.

[F.Harr]

Woo! Go Elan!

They're so sweet together. :)

[Jannoire]

Pfff... This is like, sooo obvious that this is RedCloak's niece.

RC's niece is Belkar's father?!

[D.One]

RC's niece is Belkar's father?!

RC's Niece is the children of Belkar and Banjo, that time travelled to the past to be adopted by Right-Eye with the help of the Eastern Gods that live in Roy's Sword.

Why she did it? Because "why not?"!

[Rogar Demonblud]

RC's niece is Belkar's father?!

With polymorph magic? So not a problem.

[Doug Lampert]

RC's niece is Belkar's father?!

We are all RC's niece.

So, obviously she can both shapechange and time travel. She's not just Belkar's father, she's also his mother, and of course she's Belkar himself.

[Dion]

We are all RC's niece.

So, obviously she can both shapechange and time travel. She's not just Belkar's father, she's also his mother, and of course she's Belkar himself.

You’re claiming that Serini is somehow both MiTD and Haerta Bloodsoak? That seems unlikely.

[Petrocorus]

We are all RC's niece.

So, obviously she can both shapechange and time travel. She's not just Belkar's father, she's also his mother, and of course she's Belkar himself.

That make sense. Belkar's mother and father are both RC's niece from two different times.

[Doug Lampert]

You’re claiming that Serini is somehow both MiTD and Haerta Bloodsoak? That seems unlikely.

Why does this seem unlikely? She's clearly the MitD, I mean, that's obvious. And as for Haerta Bloodsoak, exactly what do we know about her that contradicts her being a time-travelling RC's Niece?

[Peelee]

Heh, I've been guessing "3-5 strips" for a while because I had no idea how many of these type airship strips we'd get. Now that we've had two, I might revise my guess to 1-3.
I guess 3-5 strips 3-5 strips ago!

No idea, but I'll repeat my speculation that Belkar has far more experience getting drunk than Roy.
I'll take that bet. My reasoning: Roy went to college. :smallwink:

[The MunchKING]

I'll take that bet. My reasoning: Roy went to college. :smallwink:

HE seemed more the nerdy-studying type (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0855.html)than the party-hard life type.

[Bedinsis]

That's right! Elan is absolutely right that Roy left them to their own devices in Strip #1187 because Roy was forced by circumstances beyond his control to do the same thing earlier in Strip 956! That's how, even while being totally inebriated, Roy could trust the Order to their own devices because he did it before! Elan's spin was still the truth!


...?

I meant that this page just seems like a natural progression from the page I linked.

Earlier page: Roy fully expected to hold a minor speech of what needed to be done, only to see his Order already thinking ahead of him, taking the initiative and actively doing useful things.

This page: Roy has learnt that it won't really be necessary, he can trust his Order. Even if he was far from sober when making that judgment call.

And even if he had to hold the rope in the earlier strip that won't prevent him from telling his team what needs to be done.

Then again I might misremember, Roy might have held a speech for the Order between those two pages.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Minrah really needs to catch up on the Order's exploits...does anyone on the Mechane have a spare copy of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools?

[Riftwolf]

Minrah really needs to catch up on the Order's exploits...does anyone on the Mechane have a spare copy of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools?

Haley had a copy of BRiTF in Tinkertown.

[Aaron L]

I love how Haley is the only one who saw through him.

Agreed; and I also love that, even though Haley saw through Elan's (good!) inspirational plan, he actually kinda somewhat proved his point by his speech actually working! :smallsmile:

*Elan's inspirational plan!*

[Aaron L]

Character Growth on so many levels. :smallcool:

10 levels of character growth!:smallbiggrin:

[Ruck]

I guess 3-5 strips 3-5 strips ago!

I'll take that bet. My reasoning: Roy went to college. :smallwink:

Yeah, but I covered that already. See here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?602516-OOTS-1186-The-Discussion-Thread&p=24257495#post24257495).

[Peelee]

Yeah, but I covered that already. See here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?602516-OOTS-1186-The-Discussion-Thread&p=24257495#post24257495).

Oh, I doubt Roy partied at all. Which isn't a hurdle to getting drunk, of course. :smallwink:

[Bobb]

Maybe this is just a side effect of thinking the leader speech thing is dumb in general, but why is everyone so put out by Roy's actions here?

Man's drunk and needs to sleep it off.

[Aeliren]

Minrah really needs to catch up on the Order's exploits...does anyone on the Mechane have a spare copy of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools?

"Wait, he calls it the Trouser Ti-"

"Not really the point."

[Necris Omega]

Belkar has carried most of that load for the entirety of the OoTS narrative, though it was often combined with "tactless" and "inconvenient truth teller" in a lot of cases.

Maybe, but for all his moments of pointing out the overtly screwy, Belkar's still primarily a mainline insider to the order, as well as a violent sadist. He is by no measure "normal".

Minrah's a bastion of stability and normality by comparison. At least, so we've seen.

[Ruck]

Oh, I doubt Roy partied at all. Which isn't a hurdle to getting drunk, of course. :smallwink:

Well... I'm not saying this was my college experience, but Roy also seems like the kind of guy stubborn enough to not touch alcohol in school just so he can kick ass at Fighter College and prove his dad wrong.

[Jannoire]

"Wait, he calls it the Trouser Ti-"

"Not really the point."

Wasn't that already in the Paladin's Blues story?

[D.One]

Wasn't that already in the Paladin's Blues story?

She probably should read that too.

[MossyMeow]

Minrah really needs to catch up on the Order's exploits...does anyone on the Mechane have a spare copy of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools?

That would be a great gag in one of the last strips of this book, or maybe in the recap of the next. I would love to see Minrah read through the comic- with commentary, of course.

[Windscion]

That would be a great gag in one of the last strips of this book, or maybe in the recap of the next. I would love to see Minrah read through the comic- with commentary, of course.
Maybe she'll provide the forward?

[MossyMeow]

Maybe she'll provide the forward?

For this book, or the next?

[danielxcutter]

I wonder if one of the bonus strips for Utterly Dwarfed is going to have that happen?

[GrayGriffin]

For this book, or the next?

Won't be this book-the book thread says the forward is by Haley.

[CriticalFailure]

It would make more sense for the next.

[Dilvish]

I love the last panel. Haley and Elan really do make a great couple.

I logged in just to make the same comment. :smallsmile:

[Riftwolf]

Is anyone running a book on how much more denouement we've got left? My guess is one update with two pages, fifty quatloos.

[CriticalFailure]

Do you think we’ll see team evil all? Not much time but it would make sense given more minor evil characters have gotten updates.

[bunsen_h]

Do you think we’ll see team evil all? Not much time but it would make sense given more minor evil characters have gotten updates.

Final page of this book: We see the cliff face (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1039.html) of doors at Kraagor's Tomb. One door is open. From within:

:xykon: Finally.

[Riftwolf]

Final page of this book: We see the cliff face (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1039.html) of doors at Kraagor's Tomb. One door is open. From within:

:xykon: Finally.

How would we know its Xykon?
And not CeCe Peniston?

[Schroeswald]

I’m still betting against this theory based on the idea that it leaves few chances to cut back to Team Evil in the final book (I think the bet was against Peelee, how much did I bet again? I forget).
Also the second part of the spoilered part of my signature

[Fyraltari]

How would we know its Xykon?
And not CeCe Peniston?

Speech balloon colour?

I almost wrote "phylactery colour" as that is the technical French name for a speech balloon. I thought that was fun considering Xykon's state.

[Schroeswald]

I almost wrote "phylactery colour" as that is the technical French name for a speech ballon. I thought that was fun considering Xykon's state.

Wait, seriously? That's hilarious, that shouldn't be true, and I can't believe it.

[Fyraltari]

Wait, seriously? That's hilarious, that shouldn't be true, and I can't believe it.

A phylactery is originally a box used to hold paper or parchment with (magical/religious) script in it. The parallel is easy to make.

Do note it is the technical term, people generally use bulle (bubble) but I'm a pedantic ass like that.

[Peelee]

I’m still betting against this theory based on the idea that it leaves few chances to cut back to Team Evil in the final book (I think the bet was against Peelee, how much did I bet again? I forget).

One thousand dollars if I win, five dollars if I lose.

[Fyraltari]

One thousand dollars if I win, five dollars if I lose.

What is this, meta-betting?

[The MunchKING]

What is this, meta-betting?

I believe the word is "odds".

[hroþila]

A phylactery is originally a box used to hold paper or parchment with (magical/religious) script in it. The parallel is easy to make.

Do note it is the technical term, people generally use bulle (bubble) but I'm a pedantic ass like that.
Meanwhile, in Spanish it's called a sandwich and I think that's beautiful.

[Fyraltari]

Meanwhile, in Spanish it's called a sandwich and I think that's beautiful.

*sweeps tear*
It is, it is...

[The MunchKING]

Meanwhile, in Spanish it's called a sandwich and I think that's beautiful.

So the Earl just owned a bunch of comics?

[Schroeswald]

One thousand dollars if I win, five dollars if I lose.

What’s the exchange rate of dollars to quatloos and gold pieces?

[Squire Doodad]

What’s the exchange rate of dollars to quatloos and gold pieces?

Splorch Quatloos for [#REF! ERROR: Circular dependency detected] Gold Pieces.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Actually, given the lead times needed for printing and shipping and the announced ship date of the new book, I would not be surprised if Rich already finished drawing the pages needed and is just steadily posting them until the last goes up about the time he starts sending packages. That way, he has a nice long break over the holidays to spend with his family.

[hroþila]

So the Earl just owned a bunch of comics?
Sorry to disappoint, but no. I had to use sandwich in English, but Spanish proudly distinguishes between a sandwich (with sandwich bread) and a bocadillo (with proper bread). Speech bubbles are called bocadillos and the Earl gets no royalties whatsoever.

[Quizatzhaderac]

Sorry to disappoint, but no. I had to use sandwich in English, but Spanish proudly distinguishes between a sandwich (with sandwich bread) and a bocadillo (with proper bread). Speech bubbles are called bocadillos and the Earl gets no royalties whatsoever.So the royalties go to el Conde de Bocadillo?

[MossyMeow]

So the royalties go to el Conde de Bocadillo?

He had a love affair with the Earl of Sandwich...is a fact I made up. Sandwich X Bocadillo is my new OTP.

[KorvinStarmast]

Sorry to disappoint, but no. I had to use sandwich in English, but Spanish proudly distinguishes between a sandwich (with sandwich bread) and a bocadillo (with proper bread). Speech bubbles are called bocadillos and the Earl gets no royalties whatsoever. And the new ranger NPC I'll be creating for the plains/desert portion of the shared world my brother and I DM will be called "El Bocadillo" - I just love it. :smallbiggrin: He'll have two sidekicks, not one, and they'll be twins. :smallbiggrin: (And yes, they'll tend to ride/walk on either side of him ...)

[Jasdoif]

And the new ranger NPC I'll be creating for the plains/desert portion of the shared world my brother and I DM will be called "El Bocadillo" - I just love it. :smallbiggrin: He'll have two sidekicks, not one, and they'll be twins. :smallbiggrin: (And yes, they'll tend to ride/walk on either side of him ...)Like El Seed and the Bee Twins?

[BarakDeathBlade]

Like El Seed and the Bee Twins?

Just what kind of corn soldier are you?

[SkinTaker]

It's the simple but perfect strips like this that make me realize how much I love you guys this comic.

[MoiMagnus]

A phylactery is originally a box used to hold paper or parchment with (magical/religious) script in it. The parallel is easy to make.

Do note it is the technical term, people generally use bulle (bubble) but I'm a pedantic ass like that.

I've just realized right now that indeed "phylactère" (technical french term for speech balloon), and "phylactère" (the magical object) where the same word. TIL, I guess.

Note that it's almost the case in English too, since according to wikipedia: In art history, speech scroll (also called a banderole or phylactery) is an illustrative device denoting speech, song, or, in rarer cases, other types of sound.

So it's just that French peoples kept the name "phylactery" even when artists stopped using scroll-like representations in favor of balloon-like representations.

[Lheticus]

I've just realized right now that indeed "phylactère" (technical french term for speech balloon), and "phylactère" (the magical object) where the same word. TIL, I guess.

Note that it's almost the case in English too, since according to wikipedia: In art history, speech scroll (also called a banderole or phylactery) is an illustrative device denoting speech, song, or, in rarer cases, other types of sound.

So it's just that French peoples kept the name "phylactery" even when artists stopped using scroll-like representations in favor of balloon-like representations.

Dang, this is some Really Interesting Stuff. I should read these threads more thoroughly more often.

[Pampukin]

I just wanted to add that bocadillo can also mean "snack" and it is a reference in speach bubbles because its usually food you can eat in one bite.

[Riftwolf]

Dang, this is some Really Interesting Stuff. I should read these threads more thoroughly more often.

Really, we should have a curated thread for 'interesting stuff that appeared in the discussion thread', that way we'd don't have to trawl through Star Wars and alignments.

[Peelee]

Really, we should have a curated thread for 'interesting stuff that appeared in the discussion thread', that way we'd don't have to trawl through Star Wars and alignments.

Second post in that thread: "I think the PosterX's Star Wars comment was pretty insightful."