Always the Scariest Guy in the Room

[Call Me 0RE0]

I would greatly appreciate any and all help I can get with this build. I'm trying to create a char the is always the scariest guy in the room no matter what he has at his disposal. He needs to be incredibly resourceful and always able to turn an impossible situation in to a winnable one. He has to be human and its gestalt. The thought I had was to rock 20th fighter on one side and on the other 2 swordsage for the wiz to ac, 1 barb for con to ac cause the DM brought that feature from 5e. I was considering 17 warblade, but I'm not sure how efficient it'll be. I was looking at using a spear with the DMs house rules to get melee weapon mastery for all three dmg types because he made it to where spear can do all three damage types. That or versatile Unarmed Strike and do it that way cause cool points, but that's an extra feat. Suggestions?

[Malroth]

If you want to be the scariest guy in any given room, have one half of your Gestault be Beguiler or Dread necromancer that goes into Dread witch. This should handle all the espionage and out of combat utility you could possibly want as well as allow you to horrify pretty much anything even if it is immune to normal fear. Warblade would be a fairly sygernistic INT focused class for the other side of the build and pretty much does anything you could possibly want out of Fighter better than the Fighter does.

[DwarvenWarCorgi]

Go warlock into hellfire warlock on one side, binder1/clericX/sentinel of bharai3/chameleon1/cleric(or whatever) on the other side. DMM Persist all day buffs, hellfire eldritch Claws with naberius protecting your con score while in Dire Polar Bear form. Craft anything you could ever want.

15d6+++ iterative attacks, mores possible depending on tolerated cheese levels, plus invocations and 16ish levels of Cleric casting. Far scarier than any fighter, probably a little less scary than hordes of undead minions.

Stumbled on -The-Newest-Warlock-Handbook-3-5 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?265455-The-Newest-Warlock-Handbook-3-5) recently, didn't realize everything I'd want in a crazy build needed to be gestalt until I read your post.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

For a gestalt character, you never want to take two full BAB classes side by side, because they're almost completely redundant. Fighter 20 is a terrible idea, it doesn't really offer anything but a full BAB chassis.

Any non-gestalt full spellcaster can be a better melee combatant than what you've already thrown together. Between buffs, and spells to handle literally every situation, you can't go wrong with a full spellcaster.

For a melee focus, Druid 20 is where it's at. You'll get special abilities that are more powerful than an entire class (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0346.html). You can stay wild shaped into a Dire Polar Bear (huge size, Str 39, Con 23, +11 natural armor) all day long. Cast Bite of the Werebear (Str +16, Dex +2, Con +8, +7 natural armor), Enhance Wild Shape a few times (+2 Str, Dex, Con), and whatever other buffs you get from the other classes you take, and you'll be absolutely absurd.

On a gestalt character, I would actually go something more like... Archivist 20// Druid 5/ (redeemed) Dread Necromancer 1/ Cleric 1/ Master of Many Forms 7/ Sacred Exorcist 1/ Barbarian 1/ Warshaper 4. Maybe replace a few Archivist levels with Paragnostic Apostle to get Mind Over Matter and Spatial Awareness, those will need to be taken at a level that has a base class taken with it. Archivist can learn any divine spell in the game, so Druid spells, Adept spells, every domain spell, Paladin and Ranger spells, Divine Bard spells, and any prestige class that gets its own spell list as divine spells, are all open to you.

Wilding Clasps in MIC can make it so choice gear doesn't meld into your form when you wild shape. Wear armor and carry a shield with the wild property and you retain its AC bonus but none of its drawbacks when wild shaped, and you're not even considered to be wearing armor or carrying a shield when doing so. Or just cast Greater Luminous Armor every day instead of the armor. Wear a Monk's Belt to add your Wis bonus to your AC. Trade your Cleric turning for Rebuke Dragons, so you'll have Rebuke Undead uses, Rebuke Dragons uses, and Turn Undead uses, all of which benefit from Extra Turning, a Reliquary Holy Symbol, and as many Nightsticks as you're allowed to have at once. Get Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell and make your buffs last all day, every day.

Wild Shape into a War Troll in MM3, use DMM: Persistent on Bite of the Werebear and (good) Greater Visage of the Deity, among others. With three Enhance Wild Shapes and persistent Elation, this will give you the following stats:
Large size, Speed 55 (counting Barbarian), Fly 110 (good), +22 natural armor
Str 55, Dex 24, Con 43, Int +2, Wis +4, Cha +4
Regeneration 9, SR 25, DR 5/Adamantine, DR 10/Magic, resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and electricity 10, immunity to disease, +4 vs poison, Darkvision 90, low-light vision, Scent
Two claws or an amazing two-handed weapon, Dazing Blow, a bite secondary attack

Also DMM: Persistent Divine Power, Stormrage, Choose Destiny, Swift Haste or Righteous Wrath of the Faithful (on your party), Mass Lesser Vigor (on your party), Elation (on your party), Magic Circle Against Evil, Fell Drain Fell Frighten Fire Shield (twice, one cold one hot), Holy Star (three times, keep each in a different mode), Greater Invisibility, Favor of The Martyr, etc. Plus there are spells with a natural 24-hour duration, get a metamagic rod of extend and a pearl of power and spend two spell slots per day casting Energy Immunity five times (acid, cold, electricity, fire, sonic) and Superior Resistance (+6 to all saving throws).

Cast Magic Vestment on your (luminous or wild) armor and (wild) shield every day to make them +5, a wild tower shield loses its drawbacks and even any nonproficiency penalty when you wild shape. Holy Star adds +6 AC, you'll get your Wis bonus with an extra +1 from the Monk's Belt, and your +16 Con bonus from that silly Barbarian house rule, the +22 natural armor for your forms/buffs, -1 for size, and probably a +5 deflection bonus. That should be something like an AC 100, with most of it still applying to your touch and flat-footed AC. Plus Greater Invisibility all day, every day, plus anyone that hits you in melee will get hit by both fire shields, gain two negative levels, and immediately become shaken > frightened if damaged by both of them.

You'll have a +20 BAB, +22 Str, -1 size, +5 weapon with Greater Magic Weapon every day, +3 for Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, and always at least +2 from Power Attack for a +47/+47/+42/+37/+32 full attack, plus a secondary bite that can be used to trip. You get to roll every d20 twice and take the best result from Persistent Choose Destiny, plus you're invisible while attacking. With EWP for a Kaorti Resin Falchion and Improved Critical, plus Armbands of Might, you'll do 2d6+45 per hit with a 15-20/x4 critical. Power Attack for -12 instead of -2, and it's 2d6+65 per hit instead. Every time you hit the target needs to make a Fort save DC 36 or be dazed for one round. Plus you can switch all three Holy Stars into offensive mode and make three shots for 10d6 fire damage each, every round for free.

[Call Me 0RE0]

I would greatly appreciate any and all help I can get with this build. I'm trying to create a char the is always the scariest guy in the room no matter what he has at his disposal. He needs to be incredibly resourceful and always able to turn an impossible situation in to a winnable one. He has to be human and its gestalt. The thought I had was to rock 20th fighter on one side and on the other 2 swordsage for the wiz to ac, 1 barb for con to ac cause the DM brought that feature from 5e. I was considering 17 warblade, but I'm not sure how efficient it'll be. I was looking at using a spear with the DMs house rules to get melee weapon mastery for all three dmg types because he made it to where spear can do all three damage types. That or versatile Unarmed Strike and do it that way cause cool points, but that's an extra feat. Suggestions?
Forgot to specify non casting classes. I don't enjoy casting. Also my DM has a house Fighter that basically combines 3.5 and 5e Fighter with a few things added in such as intimidating prowess, as well as an alternate fighter feat tree for defense instead of weapon Focus and spec.

[Buufreak]

Forgot to specify non casting classes. I don't enjoy casting. Also my DM has a house Fighter that basically combines 3.5 and 5e Fighter with a few things added in such as intimidating prowess, as well as an alternate fighter feat tree for defense instead of weapon Focus and spec.

... okay, then just do that? If you aren't willing to take advice, and already play at a table filled with house rules that are more to your liking, what are you actually hoping to get out of this thread?

[Call Me 0RE0]

... okay, then just do that? If you aren't willing to take advice, and already play at a table filled with house rules that are more to your liking, what are you actually hoping to get out of this thread?
You're absolutley right. I apologize if that came across as rude and unwilling to take advice. I'm completley open to suggestions. Just please no casting, my tiny brain can't handle it.

[Malroth]

You don't need to cast to benefit from passive features from casting classes. Dread Necromancer would mean better Will saves, a fear aura, Paralyzing touch, ability to rebuke undead, unlimited self healing with a feat. throw Dread witch in the mix and all that intimidation you're doing bypasses fear immunity. Bard could add tons of per hit damage to your whole party as well as automatic ability to know what you're fighting and what it's weaknesses are. Warlock could let you fly, see through darkness, teleport around puzzles and punch through a tank. All without ever casting a single spell.

[Zaq]

You don't need to cast to benefit from passive features from casting classes. Dread Necromancer would mean better Will saves, a fear aura, Paralyzing touch, ability to rebuke undead, unlimited self healing with a feat. throw Dread witch in the mix and all that intimidation you're doing bypasses fear immunity. Bard could add tons of per hit damage to your whole party as well as automatic ability to know what you're fighting and what it's weaknesses are. Warlock could let you fly, see through darkness, teleport around puzzles and punch through a tank. All without ever casting a single spell.

Dread witch does give a very nice boost to Intimidate, but only a dread witch's fear spells bypass fear immunity, not every fear effect they create. Trust me, I looked. I've stumbled over that one before.

[Maat Mons]

Oh man, I came in here specifically to suggest Psion, but partway through the thread, it suddenly turns out that's not an option.

Actually, I'm not even sure what you're asking for is possible. As a non-caster, you're necessarily reliant on gear or teammates to deal with a lot of situations. For example, eventually you'll need an item that gives you flight, or one of your teammates is going to have to always be ready to cast a spell on you that gives you flight. But then you throw in that whole "no matter what he has at his disposal" requirement in there. That seems like it should mean you're still okay even if you somehow don't have all your gear on you at the moment, or one of your teammates is indisposed. If I'm understanding you right, you're kind of saying "I want to be able to do cool stuff without items, but I don't want to use the classes that can do cool stuff without items."

And gestalt seems like the perfect opportunity to dip your toes into casting. You can use one side of the gestalt to make your character awesome at mundane things. And whenever you don't want to bother with casting and its complexities, you just stick to the abilities granted by that side. Mostly pretend the casting side doesn't exist. And then just use the casting side for whatever occasional stuff the mundane side has no answer for, like breathing under water, teleporting, and what-have-you.

But anyway, if you want to play a mundane character, and you don't mind the fact that you'll need things or people sometimes, I should be able to get some suggestions together.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Just combine Fighter with Bard, and don't bother casting any spells (or pick fun spells, or whatever). Fighter gets bad Reflex and Will saves, and low skill points, all of which you'll get from Bard. Bard gets music, you can either max out Inspire Courage and use it to buff yourself and your party, or get Inspire Awe and Haunting Melody and scare your opponents every fight.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

For the literally scariest guy in the room, here's Caedrus' Fear Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?389244-Caedrus-Art-of-War-vol-1-Fear-Handbook) (lot of casting stuff in there, but there's a surprising amount of mundane demoralization material available). Since you're already going fighter, Zhentarim substitution levels don't actually cost anything and give you some lovely intimidation abilities. For feats, I'll just reiterate that Imperious Command is a must have.

For the other side, Warblade is a little redundant with Fighter, but not totally so. Totemist or Incarnate would also be good ingredients, either as dips or for the full thing (2 levels in either give you a surprising amount of utility or power, changeable from day to day; 6 is when you really start to become a power house). Consider the Avenging Executioner prestige class so you can intimidate as a move action (letting you save your swift action for maneuvers), among several other good features. Iron Heart Surge and White Raven Tactics are two of the best maneuvers in the game, and Warblade gets native access to both. Stormguard Warrior is a lovely tactical feat; pair it with Combat Reflexes and Robilar's Gambit for some lovely damage and attack boosts. You'll also have enough spare feats to easily qualify for Master of Nine, if that's the way you want to go (may require dipping Swordsage). Remember, though: don't lose more than 6 levels of whatever initiator class you want to be your main if you want to get 9th level maneuvers (prestige classes don't count against this, happily).

[SpicyBoi_Nezu]

I see scary, I think of intimidation. I'd say get the Imperious command feat, as well as never outnumbered skill trick. Toss a few ranks into intimidation, and preferable get a few items to increase charisma (Or just intimidation). Combat panache seems to fit the concept as well, but that requires ranks in other skills, which if you make use of the cross class ranks properly, shouldn't be a problem. I would recommend the "Zentarim Fighter" substitution levels if you're going all out fighter. There are plenty of intimidation feats based around raging, so a few levels in barbarian never hurt. Two armor and shield enhancements I recommend are Fearsome Armor and Hideous Shield, both giving you a whopping +10 to intimidate for just 8,750 gp (Up to +15 for 15k gp). You can also smack the ornate quality on all your equipment for a +2 to intimidate each piece. Crystal mask of dread adds +10 for 10k gp. Depending on the dm (I know my dm would allow it) with enough stacks of allowing you to intimidate faster and faster, you might get intimidation down to an immediate or even free action. There may also be a few feats that allow you to deoralize at a larger range, where you have essentially unlimited uses of a dc 45+d20 cause fear spell. Eventually everything is immune to fear, but it never ceases to help with negotiations once diplomacy fails.

[Call Me 0RE0]

Oh man, I came in here specifically to suggest Psion, but partway through the thread, it suddenly turns out that's not an option.

Actually, I'm not even sure what you're asking for is possible. As a non-caster, you're necessarily reliant on gear or teammates to deal with a lot of situations. For example, eventually you'll need an item that gives you flight, or one of your teammates is going to have to always be ready to cast a spell on you that gives you flight. But then you throw in that whole "no matter what he has at his disposal" requirement in there. That seems like it should mean you're still okay even if you somehow don't have all your gear on you at the moment, or one of your teammates is indisposed. If I'm understanding you right, you're kind of saying "I want to be able to do cool stuff without items, but I don't want to use the classes that can do cool stuff without items."

And gestalt seems like the perfect opportunity to dip your toes into casting. You can use one side of the gestalt to make your character awesome at mundane things. And whenever you don't want to bother with casting and its complexities, you just stick to the abilities granted by that side. Mostly pretend the casting side doesn't exist. And then just use the casting side for whatever occasional stuff the mundane side has no answer for, like breathing under water, teleporting, and what-have-you.

But anyway, if you want to play a mundane character, and you don't mind the fact that you'll need things or people sometimes, I should be able to get some suggestions together.
I'm curious about your Psion suggestion.

[liquidformat]

First off Zhentarim Soldier is a great place to start for your fighter side. On the other side remember to take lion spirit totem for pouncing and a second level with wolf totem for trip is quite nice too.

Dreadful Wrath should hands down be taken at level 1 and possibly Wolf Berserker if you want a nice boost to trip (Knock-Down is another great feat to take if you have the feats). Righteous Wrath is another great feat choice and it leads you well into Champion of Gwynharwyf which is a great prc choice for a fear build. Also Never Outnumbered skill trick for 10' demoralize, Imperious Command for more powerful fear effects, Intimidating Rage for demoralize as a free action. Taking a Level of Martial for bonuses to your cha checks is a worthwhile dip; a battle dancer dip might be nice to get Cha to AC. Crusader is probably your best ToB choice if you are going Cha heavy build.

[Tvtyrant]

Wildshape Ranger 4/Master of Many Forms 10//Warblade 14


Full BaB, gets the ability to turn into anything by level 20 as well as Tome of Battle strikes up to 9th level. You don't have to use casting, but turning into a War Troll so you add stuns to your attacks and having full manuever progression in combat, then turning into a dragon or hummingbird between combat to scout is pretty great. It leaves you 6 levels to explore, in which you can either take a prc for Warblade or one for Master of Many Forms.

If you feel like the class combo is too weak and you still want to avoid casting you can go Wildshape Ranger 5/Planar Shepherd 9/Master of Many Forms 6//Warblade 20. The Warblade is weaker here but you get incredible power for a none-caster.

[Maat Mons]

The reason I suggest Psion is that Psionic characters don't need anything. A divine caster needs a holy symbol (unless he takes the feat to get around it). An arcane caster needs a spell component pouch (unless he takes the feat to get around it). They both oftentimes need a free hand, and might not be able to cast spells if chained to a wall. And sometimes they even need expensive components or focuses. Psionic characters, on the other hand, just do their magic without having to worry about any of that.

You'll want to check with your DM to make sure that he's allowing class-stacking feats in a gestalt game, but for a guy who wants to deal damage by hitting things, and doesn't want to need to always carry a weapon with him, the Tashalatora feat is kind of cool. It lets you add your Monk and Psion levels together to determine your damage with unarmed strikes, your unarmored AC bonus, and your Flurry of Blows ability. If your DM allows this, you could almost be a tri-stalt. Progressing Psion and the best parts of Monk on one side, and still having the other side free for that souped-up Fighter your DM made.



Here are some powers that I think could be handy even if mostly want to handle things without manifesting powers.

1
Inertial Armor: No armor? No problem.
Know Direction And Location: Never be lost again... sort of.

2
Specified Energy Adaptation: If you're up against fire-themed enemies, give yourself resistance to fire. If you're up against cold-themed enemies... you get the idea.
Psionic Knock: Open that locked door or chest.
Sustenance: When you run out of water in the middle of the desert, you'll be just fine.
Psionic Tongues: If your DM likes to make NPCs who don't speak Common.

3
Body Adjustment: Heal thyself.
Body Purification: Heal thyself of ability damage.
Psionic Darkvision: Deal with darkness in a way that doesn't advertise your position.
Dispel Psionics: Get rid of an annoying magical effect.
Touchsight: Fight invisible enemies without penalty.

4
Psionic Dimension Door: When the ceiling caves in, and you're pinned under the rubble, just teleport out.
Psionic Freedom Of Movement: Tell grapplers to go screw themselves.

5
Adapt Body: Breath underwater.
Psionic True Seeing: Tell illusionists to go screw themselves.

6
Psionic Overland Flight: Fly everywhere, all day.

7
Personal Mind Blank: Tell enchanters to go screw themselves.

8
Iron Body: Gain immunity to all the things.

[Ruethgar]

If you're already homebrewing, see if Path of War disciplines would be allowed, Black Seraph has a lot of fear things in it and isn't spellcasting.

[Tvtyrant]

Another classic is Warlock//Psychic Warrior. Warlock's buffs tend to be long term, so you just buff up in the morning and then make really strong wolverine claws. Psy Warrior has some really easy to master abilities like Hustle and Expansion that let you full attack on a move, hit like a mountain of bricks, or go first every combat. The limited number of powers for both classes makes it pretty easy to keep track of them, and your damage comes from using high damage claws from being a Warlock and then making them as big as possible as a Psy Warrior.

[Calthropstu]

For those chanting "full caster" you guys need to understand that's obviously not what the op wants.

My suggestion is a melee barbarian type build on one side and rogue type build on the other. You want to be scary and intimidating physically as well as socially. The rogue gives you tons of skills so go nuts. Knowledge engineering, crafting, intimidate and diplomacy should be your mainstays.

If you don't have the right tools, you make them. If you don't know something, you know who does. Between your physical prowess and local connections, no one wants to mess with you.

It has been a long time since I have played 3.5, but if this idea appeals to you, I am sure people more qualified can give you specifics.

[Ruethgar]

Had a serpent that was the scariest guy in the room. Mostly PF based with SoP and SoM but also PoW. I’m having trouble finding it, but it was suppose to be basically a lesser version of Dendar the Night Serpent. He had three fear auras plus another if you even think he’s close by. Also ended up being 80ft long with the ability to hide while being observed on a level comparable to Invisibility. Fun times.

[Call Me 0RE0]

The reason I suggest Psion is that Psionic characters don't need anything. A divine caster needs a holy symbol (unless he takes the feat to get around it). An arcane caster needs a spell component pouch (unless he takes the feat to get around it). They both oftentimes need a free hand, and might not be able to cast spells if chained to a wall. And sometimes they even need expensive components or focuses. Psionic characters, on the other hand, just do their magic without having to worry about any of that.

You'll want to check with your DM to make sure that he's allowing class-stacking feats in a gestalt game, but for a guy who wants to deal damage by hitting things, and doesn't want to need to always carry a weapon with him, the Tashalatora feat is kind of cool. It lets you add your Monk and Psion levels together to determine your damage with unarmed strikes, your unarmored AC bonus, and your Flurry of Blows ability. If your DM allows this, you could almost be a tri-stalt. Progressing Psion and the best parts of Monk on one side, and still having the other side free for that souped-up Fighter your DM made.



Here are some powers that I think could be handy even if mostly want to handle things without manifesting powers.

1
Inertial Armor: No armor? No problem.
Know Direction And Location: Never be lost again... sort of.

2
Specified Energy Adaptation: If you're up against fire-themed enemies, give yourself resistance to fire. If you're up against cold-themed enemies... you get the idea.
Psionic Knock: Open that locked door or chest.
Sustenance: When you run out of water in the middle of the desert, you'll be just fine.
Psionic Tongues: If your DM likes to make NPCs who don't speak Common.

3
Body Adjustment: Heal thyself.
Body Purification: Heal thyself of ability damage.
Psionic Darkvision: Deal with darkness in a way that doesn't advertise your position.
Dispel Psionics: Get rid of an annoying magical effect.
Touchsight: Fight invisible enemies without penalty.

4
Psionic Dimension Door: When the ceiling caves in, and you're pinned under the rubble, just teleport out.
Psionic Freedom Of Movement: Tell grapplers to go screw themselves.

5
Adapt Body: Breath underwater.
Psionic True Seeing: Tell illusionists to go screw themselves.

6
Psionic Overland Flight: Fly everywhere, all day.

7
Personal Mind Blank: Tell enchanters to go screw themselves.

8
Iron Body: Gain immunity to all the things.

I would like to thank you all for your assistance in this build. Your help has been incredibly useful. The build I quoted is the one I'm going with cause I'm deciding to try again for a caster like PC, and gestalt is the perfect opportunity, as many of you have said. So again thank you all, and have a nice day.