Looking for Advice - Fighter 1 / Cleric X multiclass

[Aloxicus]

Hi All,

Just looking for advice on a possible build I'm considering.

I'm looking to making a Human (Variant) Cleric (Light Domain) character but getting a level of Fighter first, mostly for CON save proficiency, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Defense Fighting Style. The problem is though, while the CON save proficiency is very much desirable, I know I'll be losing my WIS save proficiency and CHA save proficiency since I won't be starting as Cleric.

While I'm fine losing the CHA save proficiency, I am wondering whether losing WIS save proficiency for a mostly-Cleric character is bad, and whether I should try to get the WIS save proficiency back by getting the Resilient (WIS) as my free Variant Human feat.

For additional information, we are playing 27 point-buy and my planned stat spread is as follows: STR 15 / DEX 8 / CON 15 / INT 8 / WIS 15 / CHA 8. The idea is to put the +1's in CON and WIS. Hopefully, if its okay for me to not get Resilient (WIS) anymore so I could use the free feat on something else.

In light of the foregoing, my question is: How important is WIS save proficiency to a Cleric who doesn't start with it due to dipping another class at first level?

Thank you for any and all advice!

[Eldariel]

Just pick Resilient: Con instead of wasting a whole level of casting on minor things. The saves are a wash so you literally gain nothing this way.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Just pick Resilient: Con instead of wasting a whole level of casting on minor things. The saves are a wash so you literally gain nothing this way.

More or less true, but you'll need to switch that 15 from Str to Dex. You'll lose about 2 AC overall, but avoid a 1 level multiclass dip that otherwise has marginal synergy.

[HiveStriker]

Hi All,

Just looking for advice on a possible build I'm considering.

I'm looking to making a Human (Variant) Cleric (Light Domain) character but getting a level of Fighter first, mostly for CON save proficiency, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Defense Fighting Style. The problem is though, while the CON save proficiency is very much desirable, I know I'll be losing my WIS save proficiency and CHA save proficiency since I won't be starting as Cleric.

While I'm fine losing the CHA save proficiency, I am wondering whether losing WIS save proficiency for a mostly-Cleric character is bad, and whether I should try to get the WIS save proficiency back by getting the Resilient (WIS) as my free Variant Human feat.

For additional information, we are playing 27 point-buy and my planned stat spread is as follows: STR 15 / DEX 8 / CON 15 / INT 8 / WIS 15 / CHA 8. The idea is to put the +1's in CON and WIS. Hopefully, if its okay for me to not get Resilient (WIS) anymore so I could use the free feat on something else.

In light of the foregoing, my question is: How important is WIS save proficiency to a Cleric who doesn't start with it due to dipping another class at first level?

Thank you for any and all advice!
Hi!

My best advice for your case.
1) Forget about Fighter: you can perfectly bear having no CON save proficiency until level 4. Or if you really feel it's that important...
2a) Go Variant Human, pick Resilient: Constitution, done.
2b) Go Divine Soul or Draconic Sorcerer (which also means you retain the CHA proficiency), the cost in starting attributes is far compensated by access to Shield (great in fighting), Comprehend Languages (great utility), as well as Booming Blade (when melee is only option), and three utility cantrips (Prestidigitation / Mold Earth / Shape Water / Minor Illusion / Mage Hand / Message / Dancing Lights), as well as either bonus spell (always useful) or decent unarmored AC AND keeping your spell slot progression.

In short, single level of Fighter is a big trap for 95% of Cleric builds (including your own).

As for your question.
WIS is somewhat less important than CON (concentration) for the first levels, in general, although YMMV widly depending on actual setting and quest.
But it becomes at least as important as CON, even for a Cleric, as soon as you start facing creatures using mind manipulation spells, because turning a Cleric against his friends, or at least incapacitating the party healer, can quickly lead to party demise.

Also, CHA is better than STR for a Cleric imo, not by a huge margin though, but STR effects are usually about movement: it may put your life in danger, but you have several tactics to avoid or survive this.
CHA effects from what I remember can completely disable you (like Banishment), so while they are much rarer, they sport bigger threat overall in my eyes.
Note though, my knowledge of everything CHA-based (in bestiary) is very incomplete. ;)


More or less true, but you'll need to switch that 15 from Str to Dex. You'll lose about 2 AC overall, but avoid a 1 level multiclass dip that otherwise has marginal synergy.
Heavy armor is overall useless on a Cleric, unless you really build around Spirit Guardians as the primary tank. And I don't see a Cleric which is one of the two best "blaster" Clerics (3 if you count Zeal) try and stay right in the middle of everyone (while staying just behind / besides an ally which has reliable way to draw aggro is viable).
Otherwise, 14 DEX is enough: you lose one max AC in the long run, which makes a sensible difference until level 10 or so, but nothing unmanageable. However, it means you have better Initiative (so better chance to buff allies before they scatter with Bless, or set up a Banishment before a powerful enemy gets to act, or weaken enemy group with Flame Strike before they spread), and better starting CON meaning in turn better HP and saves.

[CTurbo]

I agree with forgetting the Fighter level and grabbing Res(Con) instead

[Aloxicus]

Thanks for all the advice! Pretty consistent!

Regards to all.

[djreynolds]

Tell us how your light cleric fights in battle.

I'm not going to tell you fighter is a total waste, an example is when I played a hill dwarf life cleric in CoS, and at level 8 I really weighed selecting a level of fighter or even selecting weapon master or magic initiate druid (for shillelagh)... the only magic weapons we had were swords at the time

But the reality was my strength was a 14, and I relied upon sacred flame as my go to attack. I rarely used my divine strike

Now a light cleric at 8th can add their wisdom to their cantrips, making that sacred flame or toll the dead just a bit stronger

So the question is how are you planning to fight. Because you'll either need your wisdom at 20 or your attack stat.

If you want to be a front line melee cleric, you're going to go life or war or tempest and you'll get heavy armor that way and you're going to leave wisdom respectable, 16 or so.

[Eldariel]

Now a light cleric at 8th can add their wisdom to their cantrips, making that sacred flame or toll the dead just a bit stronger.

Not just a bit, it's an average of an entire tier's worth of bonus damage (and it's reliable, which is a big plus; 2d12 has a fairly large amount of fail scenarios where you're doing nowhere near the average of 13 damage, but 2d12+5 is a minimum of 7 and quite a bit more reliably over 10 than 3d12 for instance). 1d8 averages 4,5 and 1d12 averages 6,5 so the +5 from 20 Wis (level 20) is about equivalent to being one tier ahead, which is pretty massive to be honest.

[djreynolds]

Not just a bit, it's an average of an entire tier's worth of bonus damage (and it's reliable, which is a big plus; 2d12 has a fairly large amount of fail scenarios where you're doing nowhere near the average of 13 damage, but 2d12+5 is a minimum of 7 and quite a bit more reliably over 10 than 3d12 for instance). 1d8 averages 4,5 and 1d12 averages 6,5 so the +5 from 20 Wis (level 20) is about equivalent to being one tier ahead, which is pretty massive to be honest.

Well that's good for our OP

Clerics are an odd bunch. I have had a great time playing one but I feel you're always being pulled in many directions.

You want to buff, heal, blast, tank, and mix it up in melee. And so it can feel like a very MAD class.

I'm huge fan of resilient con, even at 4th level, and then deciding what to do with the archetype you've selected.

As light cleric, I think wood elf is a great choice. You get some extra weapons in there with the longbow and short sword. You can begin with 16s in dex and wis and have a good con score. Half-plate and breast plate/scale mail are good enough that you wade into combat and use spirit guardians which is excellent.

I would just like to see what the OP has chosen

[Nhorianscum]

Just pick Resilient: Con instead of wasting a whole level of casting on minor things. The saves are a wash so you literally gain nothing this way.

This. Cleric gains nothing from Fi1