View Full Version : E6 crusader to lvl 5?
Hi
We're playing Epic6 variant where you can't become higher than level 6 - after that you just get a new feat for every 5k XP and nothing else.
Looking at the crusaders lvl 6 it doesn't seem to provide anything useful over lvl 5 really.
Any good suggestions for a lvl 1 dip ?
Gauntlet
2019-11-21, 04:10 AM
Bard?
Song of the White Raven is a good ability for buff support. You get a few spells and other tricks, and if you take your Bard level at 1, you also get a bunch of extra skill points.
Inspire Courage is a nice ability which can be amplified through items and feats pretty well rather than through levels.
Cool suggestion, I hadn't considered that.
A few 0 lvl spells though isn't much though. We already have a bard in the group for inspire courage
Crake
2019-11-21, 05:17 AM
Barbarian for rage wouldn't be a bad pick. Keep the full bab too, so you get your second attack. You can easily solve the "only 1 rage/day" by grabbing the extra rage feat for a pretty sizable 2 extra rages/day, increasing your number of rages by 200%, pretty worth for just 1 feat. If rage doesn't thematically fit, you could easily make it work with crusader by refluffing it as a zealous frenzy too.
Fake edit: Crusader 5 itself doesn't actually give you much either, so you could go crusader 4/X 2 and still end up with the same initiator level as crusader 5/X 1, since non initiator classes give 1/2 an initiator level. You won't get a built in 3rd level maneuver, but you can solve that by simply taking martial study for whatever maneuver you want.
DeTess
2019-11-21, 05:30 AM
you could top the build off with a level in warblade, giving you access to another 3 1st and 2nd level maneuvers. you could put your situational counters in the warblade side of things so you always have those ready, keeping your more pro-active tools at the crusader side.
Thanks crake, interesting thought about the ½ lvl for non-crusader via 4/XX, I'll need to give that some thought tonight
About warblade, that sounds pretty cool too! However why won't I have access to lvl 3 manoeuvres if I'm lvl 5 crusader and take a lvl 6 in warblade? Supposedly I gain access to lvl 3 when I'm crusader 5?
Gauntlet
2019-11-21, 07:17 AM
Thanks crake, interesting thought about the ½ lvl for non-crusader via 4/XX, I'll need to give that some thought tonight
About warblade, that sounds pretty cool too! However why won't I have access to lvl 3 manoeuvres if I'm lvl 5 crusader and take a lvl 6 in warblade? Supposedly I gain access to lvl 3 when I'm crusader 5?
By going Crusader 4 / whatever 2, you get enough IL to access level 3 maneuvers, but you don't get an actual level 3 maneuver known unless you take Crusader 4 as your last (6th) level and swap a previous maneuver for one, because your IL isn't 5 until you take your sixth level.
By going Crusader 4 / whatever 2, you get enough IL to access level 3 maneuvers, but you don't get an actual level 3 maneuver known unless you take Crusader 4 as your last (6th) level and swap a previous maneuver for one, because your IL isn't 5 until you take your sixth level.
But doesn't warblade stack on crusader 1:1? Or is that something I just dreamt up in a wet fantasy..
Gauntlet
2019-11-21, 07:26 AM
But doesn't warblade stack on crusader 1:1? Or is that something I just dreamt up in a wet fantasy..
No, Initiator level only stacks at half rate between multiple martial classes. See the Crusader/Swordsage example on ToB p39.
Even so, if you went straight Crusader4 first and then finished up with a non-crusader class, you'd need Martial Study to gain any 3rd level maneuvers known regardless of the class you took for your last two levels.
No, Initiator level only stacks at half rate between multiple martial classes. See the Crusader/Swordsage example on ToB p39.
Even so, if you went straight Crusader4 first and then finished up with a non-crusader class, you'd need Martial Study to gain any 3rd level maneuvers known regardless of the class you took for your last two levels.
Aww, yes ok I was wrong unfortunately. But it's still cool with warblade coming in from the side with lvl 2 maneuvers on top of my existing ones. I'll try and weigh it vs getting lvl 3 maneuver just strait up
Thanks for the help
Kayblis
2019-11-21, 07:58 AM
Initiator level stacks fully for initiator PrCs only. So a Crusader 3 / Warblade 2 / Bloodclaw Master 5 has Crusader IL 9 and Warblade IL 8. This means that, for E6, a Crusader 4 / Warblade 1 / ToB PrC 1 nets you Crusader IL 5 and Warblade IL 4, so while not better than C5/W1, you get one level of PrC class features while keeping the crusader level.
If you're willing to get stuck at +5 BAB, you can get all three base classes from ToB and one PrC level, to get access to all schools and a buttload of maneuvers every encounter from 3 pools(two at IL 3 and one at IL 5), all with different recharging conditions. That's a very strong and versatile character that is an absolute nightmare to play. Can confirm.
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