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View Full Version : Optimization How to make a proper fiend of possession



SpicyBoi_Nezu
2019-11-21, 10:04 AM
In my group's upcomming "Thanksgiving" campaign (Sounds stupid right), we are playing as level 10 characters, and I had a concept brewing for a bit that uses the Fiendish Folio's Fiend of Possession. The concept was originally from a dnd meme, but I took this to a new level. A sentient hat piloting a mannequin.

The concept was, start out as a modified incubus (la+3) and I just need to take a single level of wizard (Corpsecrafter variant for the craft construct at level 1) and then I can take six levels in the fiend of possession class. Possess a Hat of Disguise self so that I can change the appearance of the mannequin to make it look Like a normal person. To "pilot" the mannequin, I will posses it, and whenever the hit-points of the mannequin drop's low, I will I will repossess the hat. Most of combat will consist of me trying to make touch attacks, and due to the level 2 Curse ability, with each successful touch attack, they make a will save or be hit with Bestow Curse. Of course there will be other shenanigans, but that is the basic idea.

How can I do this better, recommended feats, items, or things to posses preferred

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2019-11-21, 10:35 AM
Kaorti also in the Fiend Folio is 2 HD, +2 LA, or Bladeling in MM2 with Divine Minion (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) of Sebek is +2 LA. Both of those are Outsider [Evil] and can be used to qualify for FoP at a lower ECL.

Take Psion or Ardent, pick up Leadership or Thrallherd, and possess your cohort. FoP can give the character it's possessing +4 to all its stats, you can use personal-range buffs on the character you're possessing. The cohort can remain in control of its actions to attack every round, and you can still manifest powers on your turn as they're purely mental actions. You can't do that with spells as there are always verbal and/or somatic components that you need to be in control of a physical body to use.

TheCount
2019-11-21, 10:49 AM
I would recommend a costume item of blood wind, if you focus on bad touching your enemies.

SnugUndies
2019-11-21, 02:18 PM
Bladeling in MM2 with Divine Minion (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) of Sebek is +2 LA. Both of those are Outsider [Evil] and can be used to qualify for FoP at a lower ECL.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but couldn't you just use any race you like with the Divine Minion of Sebek? Under the "Size and Type" line, it notes that the creature's type changes to outsider as well as inheriting any alignment subtypes from its deity. That covers being an outsider with the Evil subtype right there, even if the base creature was a plain ol' human.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2019-11-21, 02:31 PM
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but couldn't you just use any race you like with the Divine Minion of Sebek? Under the "Size and Type" line, it notes that the creature's type changes to outsider as well as inheriting any alignment subtypes from its deity. That covers being an outsider with the Evil subtype right there, even if the base creature was a plain ol' human.

It only changes an existing alignment subtype to match your deity’s. If you apply it to a creature that doesn’t have one, it doesn’t add any subtype. A Bladeling is the lowest ECL creature that starts with an alignment subtype.

Thurbane
2019-11-21, 02:36 PM
Might be some useful suggestions for the concept here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?601263-3-5-A-Sentient-Hat-Piloting-A-Mannequin

liquidformat
2019-11-21, 02:40 PM
even just going vargouille, imp, or Quasit would be better base races if you can get your dm to allow it.

SnugUndies
2019-11-21, 03:08 PM
It only changes an existing alignment subtype to match your deity’s. If you apply it to a creature that doesn’t have one, it doesn’t add any subtype. A Bladeling is the lowest ECL creature that starts with an alignment subtype.

Ahh, I see that now. "Any alignment subtypes it has changes..." is the killer. Still, that would have been nice and easy, huh?

Kalkra
2019-11-22, 10:17 AM
The classic trick is to use bloodlines (and Legacy Champion/Uncanny Trickster if you can swing it) to increase your effective FoP level.

Thurbane
2019-11-22, 02:46 PM
It only changes an existing alignment subtype to match your deity’s. If you apply it to a creature that doesn’t have one, it doesn’t add any subtype. A Bladeling is the lowest ECL creature that starts with an alignment subtype.

Diabolous from Dragon Compendium are another option, also an LA +1 race.

Hish
2019-11-22, 07:15 PM
...you can use personal-range buffs on the character you're possessing.

Is there a citation on this? I looked through the text of Fiend of Possession but I couldn't find anything. I have some cool ideas for builds if this is true.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2019-11-22, 08:39 PM
Is there a citation on this? I looked through the text of Fiend of Possession but I couldn't find anything. I have some cool ideas for builds if this is true.

Personal range spells and powers have Target: You. When you’re possessing something you have no body of your own, the creature or thing you’re possessing is you.

Crake
2019-11-22, 11:56 PM
It's worth noting a few things:

1) The curse ability only works when possessing objects
2) The control objects ability is a move action to produce some movement, but in the case of a mannequin, it would be janky and look very unconvincing for a person
3) The animate objects ability effectively turns an object into a creature, thus to control it to any fine degree (beyond what the animate objects spell would normally allow you to do), you would need to actually control it via the control creature ability
4) You are now possessing and controlling a creature, not an object, and thus cannot use the curse ability.

So you basically have either a very janky, twitchy moving mannequin that arguably cannot make attack rolls (since the only action you can perform to move an object is a move action to move parts of the object, and no ability to make an attack of any kind), or you have the fine-tuned movement to allow you to pass for human, but lack the ability to curse people with a touch.

Honestly, the better method would just be to either a) possess the patch of ground underneath them, or b) possess an item on their person (though the latter gives them two saves, one to avoid having their item be possessed, and the other to avoid the curse).

Prime32
2019-11-24, 07:30 PM
Diabolous from Dragon Compendium are another option, also an LA +1 race.Also from Dragon Compendium, the dvati (the race with two bodies) has to be the best possible option for FoP if you can get them to qualify.

Kalkra
2019-11-24, 07:41 PM
Also from Dragon Compendium, the dvati (the race with two bodies) has to be the best possible option for FoP if you can get them to qualify.

Dvati is the best possible race for most things.

Thurbane
2019-11-24, 07:57 PM
Also from Dragon Compendium, the dvati (the race with two bodies) has to be the best possible option for FoP if you can get them to qualify.

Unholy Scion (HoH) would let them qualify, but the LA is pretty awful...