Pufferwockey
2019-11-21, 01:34 PM
EDIT: maybe a useful more general question is how do people feel about skill monkey builds? any DMs care to weigh in? Do they interfere much with party dynamics? My specific situation in the original post below.
So I'm playing a wood elf Outlander Way of the Kensai monk whose out of combat role up until level 3 was sort of the group's tracker/forager... profficient in perception, stealth and survival with high scores in the associated abilities. The ranger essentially. In my party is a swashbuckler rogue who's got the thieves tools and investigate side of things covered.
(Same party I was referring too in my "help me be a scout without slowing down the game" thread)
The DM just jumped the story ahead two years and gave us each three levels(we got accepted to a secret organization and have received special training if that matters to you) and the rogue took three levels of fighter with the little known scout martial archetype. I think it used to be UA or something because when I look it up I can find references to it coming from there originally but I can't find it on the actual site. I think this is what they're using:
Fighter: Scout
Bonus Proficiencies
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency in three of the following skills of your choice: Acrobatics, Athletics, Investigation, Medicine, Nature, Perception, Stealth, or Survival. You can choose to gain proficiency with thieves’ tools in place of one skill choice.
Combat Superiority
At 3rd level, you gain a set of abilities that are fueled by special dice called superiority dice.
Superiority Dice. You have four superiority dice, which are d8s. A superiority die is expended when you use it. You regain all of your expended superiority dice when you finish a long or short rest.
You gain another superiority die at 7th level and one more at 15th level.
Using Superiority Dice. You can expend superiority dice to gain a number of different benefits:
• Survival Superiority. When you make a check that allows you to apply your proficiency in Athletics, Nature, Perception, Stealth, or Survival, you can expend one superiority die to bolster the check. Add half the number rolled on the superiority die (rounding up) to your check. You apply this bonus after making the check but before learning if it was successful.
• Precision Attack. When you make a weapon attack against a creature, you can expend one superiority die to add it to the attack roll. You can use this ability before or after making the attack roll, but before any of the effects of the attack are applied.
• Scout’s Evasion. If you are hit by an attack while wearing light or medium armor, you can expend one superiority die as a reaction, adding the number rolled to your AC. If the attack still hits, you take half damage from it.
Natural Explorer
At 3rd level, you are a master of navigating the natural world, and you react with swift and decisive action when attacked. This grants you the following benefits:
• You ignore difficult terrain.
• You have advantage on initiative rolls.
• On your first turn during combat, you have advantage on attack rolls against creatures that have not yet acted.
In addition, you are skilled at navigating the wilderness. You gain the following benefits when traveling for an hour or more:
• Difficult terrain doesn’t slow your group’s travel.
• Your group can’t become lost except by magical means.
• Even when you are engaged in another activity while traveling (such as foraging, navigating, or tracking), you remain alert to danger.
• If you are traveling alone, you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
• When you forage, you find twice as much food as you normally would.
• While tracking other creatures, you also learn their exact number, their sizes, and how long ago they passed through the area.
Improved Combat Superiority
At 10th level, your superiority dice turn into d10s. At 18th level, they turn into d12s.
Relentless
Starting at 15th level, when you roll initiative and have no superiority dice remaining, you regain 1 superiority die.
It uses the UA revised ranger version of natural explorer so I think whoever posted this set of rules simultaneously folded the revised version in. Can't say I blame them. I love the ranger archetype and the favoured terrain mechanic is (in my opinion) a huge bummer.
I'm not an expert but this subclass looks balanced or under powered to me with the possible exception of adding 3 new skill proficiencies. Its version of combat superiority is has no mechanic that adds dice to damage or does anything interesting tactically like knocking prone or moving opponents. At fighter 3 with TWF rogue 3 I think they'll probably be a little under powered in combat so I really don't want to whine about power gaming.
The thing is, now, with natural explorer, proficiency in survival and (i think)expertise in stealth they're a better tracker and scout than my character. Out of combat that's really my character's only thing. I deliberately went low cha because I snagged the "face" role with a charalatan background warlock last campaign, and I wanted a break from it and to give someone else a chance. I didn't take insight because I figured this guy was good at reading his surroundings, but not so much other people beyond what his high wis allows.
I'm not sure how much right I even have to complain. I made a character that rocks pretty hard in combat and just took some outdoorsy skills. This other player is sacrificing quite a bit in the way of class features in order to make this multi class, but now they've got most non combat roles covered from a skill proficiency stance. I'm not intimately familiar with their character but I have the impression they've got expertise in persuade as well so they're also honing in on the bard's territory. I normally don't mind skill redundancy, or even class redundancy in a party. This player has also earned some benefit of the doubt when it comes to letter other players have their time to shine (in the last campaign a card from the deck of may things gave them expertise in persuade and deception, but they let me take the wheel for the most part when it came time for serious "face" action without any prompting) but them taking a class feature that makes my out of combat role obsolete feels different.
How can I "yes and" this? I liked my job as tracker and forager. Do I just say "ok I forage, you scout," when the setting calls for it? Do I just say that's cool you handle it, I've got your back when the fighting starts?
So I'm playing a wood elf Outlander Way of the Kensai monk whose out of combat role up until level 3 was sort of the group's tracker/forager... profficient in perception, stealth and survival with high scores in the associated abilities. The ranger essentially. In my party is a swashbuckler rogue who's got the thieves tools and investigate side of things covered.
(Same party I was referring too in my "help me be a scout without slowing down the game" thread)
The DM just jumped the story ahead two years and gave us each three levels(we got accepted to a secret organization and have received special training if that matters to you) and the rogue took three levels of fighter with the little known scout martial archetype. I think it used to be UA or something because when I look it up I can find references to it coming from there originally but I can't find it on the actual site. I think this is what they're using:
Fighter: Scout
Bonus Proficiencies
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency in three of the following skills of your choice: Acrobatics, Athletics, Investigation, Medicine, Nature, Perception, Stealth, or Survival. You can choose to gain proficiency with thieves’ tools in place of one skill choice.
Combat Superiority
At 3rd level, you gain a set of abilities that are fueled by special dice called superiority dice.
Superiority Dice. You have four superiority dice, which are d8s. A superiority die is expended when you use it. You regain all of your expended superiority dice when you finish a long or short rest.
You gain another superiority die at 7th level and one more at 15th level.
Using Superiority Dice. You can expend superiority dice to gain a number of different benefits:
• Survival Superiority. When you make a check that allows you to apply your proficiency in Athletics, Nature, Perception, Stealth, or Survival, you can expend one superiority die to bolster the check. Add half the number rolled on the superiority die (rounding up) to your check. You apply this bonus after making the check but before learning if it was successful.
• Precision Attack. When you make a weapon attack against a creature, you can expend one superiority die to add it to the attack roll. You can use this ability before or after making the attack roll, but before any of the effects of the attack are applied.
• Scout’s Evasion. If you are hit by an attack while wearing light or medium armor, you can expend one superiority die as a reaction, adding the number rolled to your AC. If the attack still hits, you take half damage from it.
Natural Explorer
At 3rd level, you are a master of navigating the natural world, and you react with swift and decisive action when attacked. This grants you the following benefits:
• You ignore difficult terrain.
• You have advantage on initiative rolls.
• On your first turn during combat, you have advantage on attack rolls against creatures that have not yet acted.
In addition, you are skilled at navigating the wilderness. You gain the following benefits when traveling for an hour or more:
• Difficult terrain doesn’t slow your group’s travel.
• Your group can’t become lost except by magical means.
• Even when you are engaged in another activity while traveling (such as foraging, navigating, or tracking), you remain alert to danger.
• If you are traveling alone, you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
• When you forage, you find twice as much food as you normally would.
• While tracking other creatures, you also learn their exact number, their sizes, and how long ago they passed through the area.
Improved Combat Superiority
At 10th level, your superiority dice turn into d10s. At 18th level, they turn into d12s.
Relentless
Starting at 15th level, when you roll initiative and have no superiority dice remaining, you regain 1 superiority die.
It uses the UA revised ranger version of natural explorer so I think whoever posted this set of rules simultaneously folded the revised version in. Can't say I blame them. I love the ranger archetype and the favoured terrain mechanic is (in my opinion) a huge bummer.
I'm not an expert but this subclass looks balanced or under powered to me with the possible exception of adding 3 new skill proficiencies. Its version of combat superiority is has no mechanic that adds dice to damage or does anything interesting tactically like knocking prone or moving opponents. At fighter 3 with TWF rogue 3 I think they'll probably be a little under powered in combat so I really don't want to whine about power gaming.
The thing is, now, with natural explorer, proficiency in survival and (i think)expertise in stealth they're a better tracker and scout than my character. Out of combat that's really my character's only thing. I deliberately went low cha because I snagged the "face" role with a charalatan background warlock last campaign, and I wanted a break from it and to give someone else a chance. I didn't take insight because I figured this guy was good at reading his surroundings, but not so much other people beyond what his high wis allows.
I'm not sure how much right I even have to complain. I made a character that rocks pretty hard in combat and just took some outdoorsy skills. This other player is sacrificing quite a bit in the way of class features in order to make this multi class, but now they've got most non combat roles covered from a skill proficiency stance. I'm not intimately familiar with their character but I have the impression they've got expertise in persuade as well so they're also honing in on the bard's territory. I normally don't mind skill redundancy, or even class redundancy in a party. This player has also earned some benefit of the doubt when it comes to letter other players have their time to shine (in the last campaign a card from the deck of may things gave them expertise in persuade and deception, but they let me take the wheel for the most part when it came time for serious "face" action without any prompting) but them taking a class feature that makes my out of combat role obsolete feels different.
How can I "yes and" this? I liked my job as tracker and forager. Do I just say "ok I forage, you scout," when the setting calls for it? Do I just say that's cool you handle it, I've got your back when the fighting starts?