Use Object Action v Attack Action Discussion thread

[Erys]

In the RAW thread we have question 431, which asks:

Q431

Here is the RAW text of the Acid from the Adventuring Gear from the SRD:


*Acid*: As an action, you can splash the contents of this vial onto a creature within 5 feet of you or throw the vial up to 20 feet, shattering it on impact. In either case, make a ranged attack against a creature or object, treating the acid as an improvised weapon. On a hit, the target takes 2d6 acid damage.
The Alchemist Fire and the Holy Water are analogous. My question is: the Action you need to do is an Attack or a Use an Object or something else?

The verdict is currently split with some saying its Use Object and others saying its an Attack. To not clutter up the RAW thread I have brought the discussion here.

***


R431:

"Jeremy Crawford
@JeremyECrawford
Alchemist's fire is treated as an improvised weapon. When you hurl it at someone, you make a ranged attack against them. The damage roll of a ranged weapon attack includes your Dexterity modifier."

I believe finding the vial of XXX in your pack and drawing it is an object interaction (just like drawing a sword), but throwing it at someone is clearly stated as a ranged attack.

In JC's responses, he never confirms the OP's assumption that Alchemist's fire is an item interaction - he states that when you throw it, it is a ranged attack.

He didn't address it because the claim is correct.

Remember, the rules explicitly say, "When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action."

As JC says: objects can be used as (improvised) weapons and are resolved identically as Attacks. No different than using Booming Blade, it uses the Cast a Spell Action even though it resolves just like an Attack Action.

[Man_Over_Game]

An important distinction that needs to be made, before discussions continue, is that:


Use an Object Action: Costs your Action, is the type of action you use for any object that requires an Action (Holy Water, Alchemist's Fire, etc).
Attack Action: Costs your Action, make an Attack. If you have the Extra Attack feature, make an additional Attack.
Attack: An event that uses an attack roll, and may result in a "hit" against the target. This can be caused by the Cast a Spell Action, the Attack Action, a Reaction (like an Opportunity Attack), or an applicable Bonus Action (like through two-weapon fighting).



So an Attack Action creates an Attack, but so can other Actions. Theoretically, there's no reason a Use an Object Action can't either.

[Garfunion]

So an Attack Action creates an Attack, but so can other Actions. Theoretically, there's no reason a Use an Object Action can't either.
So theoretically, if you had two acid vials (one in each hand) you can use your free use an object action to throw one vial then use your regular action to take an use an object action to throw the other.
If you are a thief rogue you may use your bonus action to take an use an object action to draw another vial or throw another vail if an ally was holding their action to give you the vial.

[Man_Over_Game]

So theoretically, if you had two acid vials (one in each hand) you can use your free use an object action to throw one vial then use your regular action to take an use an object action to throw the other.
If you are a thief rogue you may use your bonus action to take an use an object action to draw another vial or throw another vail if an ally was holding their action to give you the vial.

"You normally interact with an object while doing something else, such as when you draw a sword as part of an attack. When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action. This action is also useful when you want to interact with more than one object on your turn."

There's a difference between the "free" option of interacting with an object, and the required action that some objects call for. When an object requires your action for its use, THEN it's a "Use an Object" Action.

In other words, a Thief can throw a vial of acid as a Bonus Action, when it'd require that everyone else must use their Action. The Thief could then throw a second vial if he wanted to with his remaining Action.

[Garfunion]

Thank you, that clears it up for me.

[da newt]

Thank you, that clears it up for me. - ditto :biggrin:

[greenstone]

I would rule that it is the Throw a Vial Action.

[Greywander]

The verdict is currently split with some saying its Use Object and others saying its an Attack.
Anything that requires an attack roll is an attack. Not all attacks are used with the Attack action. An exceedingly common example are attack cantrips, which use the Cast a Spell action rather than the Attack action. Alchemists Fire and Vials of Acid require a Use Object action, which means that Thief rogues can use them as a bonus action.

[Millstone85]

So an Attack Action creates an Attack, but so can other Actions.
Not all attacks are used with the Attack action.As a side note, I find things to be clearer when one follows the PHB's use of capital letters. Greywander got it right.

[Greywander]

As a side note, I find things to be clearer when one follows the PHB's use of capital letters. Greywander got it right.
Yeah, it can be a bit confusing, but paying attention to capitalization helps. There's a difference between "making an attack as an action" and "taking the Attack action". If acid or alchemists fire was meant to replace one of your Attack action attacks, then it would have language similar to grappling and shoving, which it doesn't. Nor does it have any language that would indicate it's used with an Attack action but replaces all of your attacks. Nothing indicates it uses the Attack action at all, except when it refers to them as improvised weapons. Keep in mind that a number of magic weapons exist that have special properties that you can activate "as an action" (i.e. not an Attack action), so these likely fall into the same camp.