Capitalizing on High Speed?

[SMac8988]

Hey all. I am currently trying to work on a character based of Hiei for Yuyu Yuyu Hakusho, and I'm stuck on a few detailed. Some stuff I know will be need to be hand waved by the DM and will be multi class things and fluff detailed but the biggest question I'm kinda stuck on is.


Is there a way to capitalize on having a high move speed more than just running around? Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas that benefit from a high move speed. I know dnd isnt an anime and the teleporting moving thing isnt a thing. But ya, I'm still trying to figure out how many attacks I can pull off, level 10 max, and some of the other details.

But I really just want to know cool ways everyone has taken advantage of high speed.

[Bobthewizard]

So I think the mobile feat would be critical here so you could hit someone and keep moving without taking an opportunity attack.

Then I'd try to get as many attacks as possible. At level 10, I'd consider monk 5, hunter ranger 3 for horde breaker, and fighter 2 for action surge. So then it's 2 attacks, 2 open hand attacks, 1 horde breaker and then action surge for 2 more attacks and 1 more horde breaker. All this while flying around the battlefield. With enough movement, you could hit 8 enemies and then return to end up back behind the party's tank. That's a lot of resources for one round though.

[CheddarChampion]

Haste (and a good concentration save bonus) is great for this.
Wood Elf EK with mobile and maybe 2 levels in monk or rogue?

But for how to use speed, try to never let melee attackers be able to move to you and hit you on their turns. Also try to end your turn behind cover.

Potentially, have a fog cloud or darkness spell set up in an area off to the side. Run out of it to attack then back in for cover. Usually more useful against spells that require sight of the target.

[Expected]

Having watched YuYu Hakusho as a child, I'm familiar with Hiei. Thematically, he would be a Kensei Monk with a longsword, Hexblade Warlock (Dragon of the Darkness Flame), maybe Fighter. As for race, he is a fiend, so Tiefling for accuracy (but not appearance), and Variant Human or Wood Elf otherwise. With the recent UA, Kensei Monks are even worse off so honestly I'd go Way of the Open Hand, but either is fine. For the purposes of this example, I will assume you chose VHuman and WotOH Monk.

In summary:
Thematically accurate
Kensei Monk+Hexblade Warlock
Tiefling/Variant Human

Mechanically sound and will have high mobility at level 1
WotOH Monk 0-20
Variant Human (Wood Elf is best to maximize movement)
Str-Dex-Con-Int-Wis-Cha
10-16-14-8-16-8 (tel:10-16-14-8-16-8)
Mobile feat (+10ft walking and no AoO if you use the Attack action)
Take 2 Dex and 2 Wis ASI's and then any other ASI/Feat of your choice (I recommend Sentinel or Tough)

You will have 40ft movement at level 1 and can attack and disengage for free on that enemy. Later on, you'll get more movement and can run on water/walls. Proficiency in all saves. Ki points (which are a HIGHLY accurate comparison to the energy in YuYu Hakusho). And Flurry of Blows+Stunning Strike. You can run around the battlefield stunning enemies and when you get level 17, you can use Quivering Palm for a save or literally die (you can flavor it as the darkness dragon).

Quivering Palm, D&D 5e PHB

". . .When you use this action, the creature must make a Constitution saving throw. If it fails, it is reduced to 0 hit points. If it succeeds, it takes 10d10 necrotic damage.

You can have only one creature under the effect of this feature at a time. You can choose to end the vibrations harmlessly without using an action."

With Haste, speed is doubled. You also have Step of the Wind to double it yourself and to double jump height. I would strongly recommend Str magic items (Gauntlets of Ogre Power/Belt of Giant Strength) if you don't have martials, or martials that want them as it will increase your jump height. You can also later have your attacks scale with Str should you get an item that increases it past 22 (20 Dex + Manual of Quickness of Action = 22 Dex).

Now imagine jumping with Step of the Wind and 29 Str to Attack+Extra Attack+Flurry of Blows (2 unarmed attacks)+Stunning Strikes on ALL of them to a flying dragon (to burn Legendary Resistance) who gets stunned and plummets to the earth with you falling slowly behind it due to Slow Fall. Amazing, right?

Outside of this extraordinary example, you can move around combat while stunning enemies, tanking--Monks get high AC when they max Dex and Wis because of Unarmored Defense--and controlling the battlefield.

[MaxWilson]

Is there a way to capitalize on having a high move speed more than just running around? Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas that benefit from a high move speed. I know dnd isnt an anime and the teleporting moving thing isnt a thing. But ya, I'm still trying to figure out how many attacks I can pull off, level 10 max, and some of the other details.

But I really just want to know cool ways everyone has taken advantage of high speed.

Well, Spike Growth + grappling lets you convert speed into damage. E.g. if you can drag an enemy 100' through spikes, you can inflict 40d4 magical piercing damage on them. Unfortunately you also inflict 40d40 piercing damage on yourself at the same time unless you're flying. Also, enemy weight might be a problem (some DMs will handwave this for grappling/dragging, but others will very reasonably insist that creatures are no easier to drag than objects and that encumbrance limits apply).

Still though it is a way to convert speed into damage, and since 5E has a lot of mobility boosters (Haste ~= 4x normal speed since you get double speed and a free Dash; Longstrider = 1 hour no concentration +10' speed; Fly spell = 60' Fly speed; lots of racial/class features/magic items grant flying) and lots of ways to grapple effectively, it's relatively weaponizable.

A similar trick is to grapple enemies and fly them either up into the air where you can drop them for falling damage, or into hazards (over a cliff, into lava, into the lair of a hungry bulette, etc.).

[Man_Over_Game]

There's not too much use for speed, from what research I've done.

Option 1: Cowardly Tank
Surprisingly enough, the most powerful use I've ever found of it was from the Ancestral Guardian Barbarian. See, you don't need to be in melee range for the Taunt to work (unlike Cavalier). You don't even need to make a melee attack (although you generally want to, due to Rage). You just have to hit the target, and now the target is unable to attack anyone but you.

So you bop the boss on the nose and run away. He can chase you through your team (granting opportunity attacks or Sneak Attacks), or he can do nothing.

Option 2: Bastard Skirmisher
Drunken Master Monk. Use that speed to dash in, punch everything, dash out. Simple but effective. Great in 1v1 fights, as the Monk is hard to shoot or hex down, and he can just kite any melee combatant with his superior speed. You could do something similar as a Kensei, using your range to augment your movement. This is safer, but less reward.

Option 3: Back-line Lockdown
Another option is to be a Monk that is designed for locking down the enemy's back line. Monks are naturally resistant to ranged attacks, stave off saving throws, and can grab Mage Slayer or Sentinel. Combined, you can just Step of the Wind past the melee line and force the enemy to give up their wall defense. Maybe use your Action to Dodge (so that surrounding you will result in wasted attacks), and punish their squishies when they attempt to run away.

Besides those, I haven't found any means of using an excessively high movement speed in 5e.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Shadow monk will let you teleport around.
But a blade pact warlock look better fitting for me.

Relentless hex will let you teleport around your target.
Maybe a sorcerer with shadow blade and a short range teleportation spell?

[MaxWilson]

So I think the mobile feat would be critical here so you could hit someone and keep moving without taking an opportunity attack.

I want to just briefly note two things:

(1) Opportunity attacks you to see the target, so a spell like Darkness can substitute for the Mobile feat here.

(2) An opportunity attack is still just one attack, and it can be preferable to take one opportunity attack instead of a full Multiattack sequence, especially if the enemy has no or poor ranged attacks. (Also, if your movement speed it high enough, you can lie prone when it's not your turn to impose disadvantage on ranged attacks.)

For this reason, next time I play a Shadow Monk, I would take the Alert feat at 4th level and the Mobile feat at 8th level instead of the other way around. (Alert + Shadow Monk Darkness = quasi-Blur. Not only do enemies get no opportunity attacks against you, unless they have blindsight/similar, but they also have disadvantage to attack you. You have disadvantage to attack them because you can't see them, but you also have advantage to attack them because they can't see you, so it evens out. But they don't get advantage to attack you because you have Alert so they just have disadvantage.)

[SMac8988]

I was looking at having Warlock for the Jagan eye, but cant figureout what spells and abilities would be fitting for the purpose.

I keep coming up to 6 monk (way of open), 4 Warlock.

I'd love to do 3 warlock 2 fighter. But level 10 seems to be the cap for the camapign we are playing. Blah.


The other idea I has was Warlock 6, Fighter 2, Monk 2. But that seems to be lacking.....

[Segev]

In planning out how to use a Quickling to augment but not really be a full-on extra combatant in a fight with a hill giant and his pet dire wolf, I was initially planning to use his 120 ft. speed to run in, attack the mage to break Concentration on any spells making the fight too easy for the PCs, and run back out. But this still would trigger the Barbarian's Sentinel feat, enabling a counterattack if the quickling got engaged with her. I could manage some of that by positioning with only the elven mage, but still, it was a risk. Then I looked more closely at the quickling's attacks: its dagger can be thrown.

So the actual move is to rush in to short range for a dagger, and throw it, then rush back out. This permits some 70 to 80 feet (I forget if daggers are 20 ft. or 10 ft. short range) of distance from the party during the quickling's turn.


I'm also planning a fight which may involve a shadow demon for my players. Its incorporeality only lets it move through stuff; if it stops inside of things, it takes 1d10 Force damage. This stings. However, it occurred to me that ~5 damage per round is less than what is possible if the Barbarian gets off even one attack, let alone what happens if others in the party hit it. I'm planning to have it try to use its bonus action Hide to stay untargetable, but if that fails, and it takes more than a third of its damage while trying that, it will begin hiding in the floor. 5 damage per round is not fun, but smaller than it otherwise might take.


So what I'm getting at, here, is to consider ranged weapons and hit-and-run tactics. You can maintain a distance that is likely impossible for a foe to close with you. If you go for any flavor of monk, the ability to bonus-action dash will be amazing for such tactics.

[LordCdrMilitant]

I have no idea who Hiei is [besides a battlecruiser/fast battleship], but in general high mobility should be easy to capitalize on.

It allows you flexibility in your actions and responsiveness, allowing you to get and maintain an advantage. I agree that the mobile feat is probably good to take, since it also means you have freedom of action to act. Sentinel [and maybe other interference feats like Mage Slayer] might be really good to add in there too.

[Speely]

I am not familiar with that show, but I will say that playing a Tabaxi Monk with the Mobile feat made me feel like a freaking anime action hero. That kind of mobility can be encounter-breaking. And I was playing Kensei. I can't even imagine playing Shadow in the same general way. Whew.

[MrCharlie]

Others can optimize the speed, but Swashbuckler combined with booming blade is a perennial favorite for doing something useful with it; the basic idea is to hit someone with booming blade, then simply not be there anymore, forcing them to either close the distance or sit there ineffectually being slowly murdered. This also works with arcane trickster. Otherwise, grappling people into harmful effects works; the most extreme is something like prismatic wall, where it's theoretically 50d6/lose/leave every time you bring them into it. Prismatic wall is merely an endmember of several abilities; it simultaneously does not hurt you but ruins enemies on every pass.

Otherwise; fly really high and drop someone. Tunnel really low and leave someone. Find a way to survive pressures, then dive to crush depth. Dig into a volcano. The possibilities with high movement and grapple are basically limitless, requiring on that you aren't in danger but someone is, which basically means exploiting magic to gain immunity to something enemies won't have.

But in general, I think we can divide the strategy into kiting or grappling. Move faster than enemies, or make your movement enemies movement and do bad things with that power.

[LordCdrMilitant]

But in general, I think we can divide the strategy into kiting or grappling. Move faster than enemies, or make your movement enemies movement and do bad things with that power.

I'd say more important is just the ability to be in the right place at the right time.

When you're fast, they can't escape you, and if you have interference abilities like Sentinel you can lock them down and prevent them from moving.

[Chalkarts]

I was considering a speed demon as well,

Mobile feat,
Monk with a few levels or barbarian for the rage and speed bump.

I'd like a guy that runs through the battlefield two handing eveything with his quarterstaff.

[HiveStriker]

Hey all. I am currently trying to work on a character based of Hiei for Yuyu Yuyu Hakusho, and I'm stuck on a few detailed. Some stuff I know will be need to be hand waved by the DM and will be multi class things and fluff detailed but the biggest question I'm kinda stuck on is.


Is there a way to capitalize on having a high move speed more than just running around? Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas that benefit from a high move speed. I know dnd isnt an anime and the teleporting moving thing isnt a thing. But ya, I'm still trying to figure out how many attacks I can pull off, level 10 max, and some of the other details.

But I really just want to know cool ways everyone has taken advantage of high speed.
If you cannot count on your DM, be a 4E Monk with two levels in Rogue and Mobile feat: you are a Monk so you have already nice speed. If you can get up to Monk 11, you'll get Fly. With Expertise in Athletics, you can easily Grapple people around.

In open areas, you'll make deadly drop-ins. In other areas, you can at least easily generate advantage for others by making enemies fall prone, or swoop to try and pick that pesky caster from backlines.

If you can count on your DM, the best is probably Mystic (one Discipline to be a Giant, one Discipline to be Speedy Gonzales, one Discipline for Fly).
Or a custom Monk archetype mixing Shadow Monk and 4E implementations that would allow you to cast Longstrider, Haste and Fly with ki and other passives / bonus action features like Totem Barbarian (for example, getting advantage if you crossed at least 20 feet straight before starting a melee attack chain, or instead giving extra damage like 1 per feet).

Otherwise, the best way to take advantage of speed is to set up tag team tactics to Grapple/Shove enemies inside allies's hazards, either existing (Spike Growth, Plant Growth) or upcoming (herding everyone together before a Fireball is launched) so your speed will generate value indirectly. :)


I have no idea who Hiei is [besides a battlecruiser/fast battleship], but in general high mobility should be easy to capitalize on.

It allows you flexibility in your actions and responsiveness, allowing you to get and maintain an advantage. I agree that the mobile feat is probably good to take, since it also means you have freedom of action to act. Sentinel [and maybe other interference feats like Mage Slayer] might be really good to add in there too.
Hiei is a very cool character from the manga, which is basically a "fighting shonen" (read: very basic plots, 90% fights) with somewhat original and interesting characters.
Among the four main, Hiei could be seen as a kind of "Vegeta" (from Dragon Ball): someone with a very egocentric and irrespectful behaviour (Chaotic Evil?), that progressively evolves into someone frequentable, to an extent.
Main difference with Vegeta is that this guy is also capable of jokes, and has a backstory longer than 2 lines of "I'm proud I'm the strongest" XD.

In terms of fighting ability, he's the archetype of a "fire mage warrior": starting with some light sorcellery and mind control, forte being amazing swordmanship based in speed and accuracy. He laters learn how to use very powerful and classy fire spells, including a kind of "Black Dragon" that he can use directly to turn anything to ashes, or instead eat to buff its physical strength.
Something that, I'm afraid, is completely unreproductible in 5e barring custom spell.
Even the swordmanship would probably require a custom class, like a Monk that gets increased speed and number of attacks every two levels (up to 8 attacks) but at the extent of everything else.


Actually, following Expected's suggestion, I'd say a Fighter 11 / Fiend Warlock 9 could be a fair approach: 3 attacks or 6 with Action Surge, ability to nova blow Fireball with same Action Surge or mix and match spell and attack.

Or, now that I think about it, Sorlock Draconic Sorcerer 11 / Hexblade Blade Warlock 9 may be better, maybe cranking two levels of Fighter for Action Surge: you get some mind control spells to reflect the Jagan thing, Subtle can fluff the speedness of cast, you could Haste yourself, Quicken a Fireball while you Extra Attack...
And you also get GreenFlame Blade and Elemental Weapon for the "spellsword" part of Hiei's abilities.
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think it's the second or first best option.
You're completely missing the superhuman attack speed (but as said, unless you give "Fighter 20" at level 4, I don't see any way to put it) and the superhuman mobility (unless spell buff) that was slightly better made with Monk, but it feels overall more accurate to me.

[Theaitetos]

Instead of a Wood Elf you can also take a Variant Half-Elf with the Wood Elf's Fleet Foot trait. Probably much better if you want to go primarily warlock.

If you play with UA, you could take the additional pact weapon invocations from here (https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/20170213_Wizrd_Wrlck_UAv2_i48nf.pdf) and use Claw of Acamar or Mace of Dispater to disable/prone different enemies per round (1 per hit). The Claw of Acamar is a unique flail with the reach property and a single hit will reduce an enemy's movement to 0, so you wouldn't even need the mobile feat against melee enemies without reach.

[LordCdrMilitant]

Hiei is a very cool character from the manga, which is basically a "fighting shonen" (read: very basic plots, 90% fights) with somewhat original and interesting characters.
Among the four main, Hiei could be seen as a kind of "Vegeta" (from Dragon Ball): someone with a very egocentric and irrespectful behaviour (Chaotic Evil?), that progressively evolves into someone frequentable, to an extent.
Main difference with Vegeta is that this guy is also capable of jokes, and has a backstory longer than 2 lines of "I'm proud I'm the strongest" XD.

In terms of fighting ability, he's the archetype of a "fire mage warrior": starting with some light sorcellery and mind control, forte being amazing swordmanship based in speed and accuracy. He laters learn how to use very powerful and classy fire spells, including a kind of "Black Dragon" that he can use directly to turn anything to ashes, or instead eat to buff its physical strength.
Something that, I'm afraid, is completely unreproductible in 5e barring custom spell.
Even the swordmanship would probably require a custom class, like a Monk that gets increased speed and number of attacks every two levels (up to 8 attacks) but at the extent of everything else.


That explanation didn't help at all, because I've never interacted with any of the media of the sort, so describing it from the point of reference of an anime I've never watched doesn't actually make the matter clearer [I do know that Dragonball is a popular anime that spawned the "over 9000 power level" quote, so I'm not completely ignorant]. That said, I already got the point, I don't think I need to know that the Hiei in the question question doesn't have 4x2 14"/45 rifles to answer the question about how to utilize high speed in combat.

Having mobility is just in general a good tactical option. Being fast lets you dictate the range of engagement, chose who can engage you and who you can engage, and have the flexibility to reach any given position that might be most advantageous in time.

[TripleD]

Grapple and Jump.

With max strength, Step of the Wind, and either the Boots of Springing and Striding or a Ring of Jumping, it’s not too difficult to get a jump height of around 100.

Problem is that most jumping abilities limit the distance you can jump to your speed. Having a high speed gets you more height and thus, more fall damage when you let go.

[LudicSavant]

Well, Spike Growth + grappling lets you convert speed into damage

I came here to say basically this :smalltongue: