Opinions on my Magic Item Shops

[DragonSorcererX]

In my 5e D&D world I want magic to be a little more common than in others, not on the level of Eberron though.

Except for Sorcerer and Warlock magic, any magic can be learned (like it was in third edition in which anyone could be a Cleric or Paladin), and there will be magic schools, armies will use mages like the guys from Cormyr on Forgotten Realms, and a minority of the human nobles will be spellcasters just for the prestige.

So I was thinking on how I wanna do magic items and I thought that if anyone can learn magic, magical crafting would be relatively common (still not as common as in Eberron) and "magical" would be just another level of quality an item can have, something like normal > masterwork > magical.

The highest level crafters would be artificers, clerics, druids, and wizards, so a high level Blacksmith would sell normal swords, masterwork swords and magical swords, while a high level Magic Shop would sell not only spell components and mundane wands and staves but also magical staves and wands and woundrous items like bags of holding.

The rarity of magic items you can find in shops would cap at Very Rare (the world is higher level than Eberron), and they would usually be the weaker magic items, while the most powerful magic items would be reserved to adventure treasure, although a crafter could craft them in special occasions.

Who would buy these items? Nobles, military officers (although it is more likely that they receive them as rewards from promotion), and rich high level mercenaries.

The damand for these items wouldn't be big, but they would exist as the highest level of quality for an item and having them would be a prestigious thing.

Does it make sense?

[brian 333]

I imagine there would be 'low level' magic shops for peasants to buy cures for warts and acne to, as well as wandering potion vendors and even pawnbrokers who deal in magic items. If magic is prestigeous, it will appeal to all classes.

Imagine local hedge wizards who sell cheap potions and low level wand recharges.

The local pawn shop with a back room inventory for folks with gold.

The local school headmaster who takes on gifted students and who can be convinced to sell a low level scroll or rent the use of his laboratory or library.

[DragonSorcererX]

I imagine there would be 'low level' magic shops for peasants to buy cures for warts and acne to, as well as wandering potion vendors and even pawnbrokers who deal in magic items. If magic is prestigeous, it will appeal to all classes.

Imagine local hedge wizards who sell cheap potions and low level wand recharges.

The local pawn shop with a back room inventory for folks with gold.

The local school headmaster who takes on gifted students and who can be convinced to sell a low level scroll or rent the use of his laboratory or library.

I hadn't thought about those things for my world yet because I was thinking about high level stuff and not about the common man, thanks for reminding me that potions are a thing.

I totally agree with you about the alchemists (and the other things), there would totally exist low level alchemist shops in the villages that peasants can go to buy cures for small things like acne.

[Sparky McDibben]

Magic shops would draw thieves like anything. Hell, that might be the whole reason for the arcane trickster archetype.

[DragonSorcererX]

Magic shops would draw thieves like anything. Hell, that might be the whole reason for the arcane trickster archetype.

Well, the higher level shops who would have spellcaster crafters would probably have things like Alarm spells protecting them, so unless a thief has both a Wand of Detect Magic and a Wand of Dispel Magic (or similar items) it would be hard to steal from a magic item shop, although, in this world it wouldn't be too hard to acquire such wands if you have the coin.

[brian 333]

Well, the higher level shops who would have spellcaster crafters would probably have things like Alarm spells protecting them, so unless a thief has both a Wand of Detect Magic and a Wand of Dispel Magic (or similar items) it would be hard to steal from a magic item shop, although, in this world it wouldn't be too hard to acquire such wands if you have the coin.

Thus was spawned the special class of 'good' rogues who specialize in the security of merchant shops and in the apprehension of thieves and the recovery of stolen property.

The Archmage Brinks is known around the world, but the services he provides is rather expensive.

[DragonSorcererX]

Thus was spawned the special class of 'good' rogues who specialize in the security of merchant shops and in the apprehension of thieves and the recovery of stolen property.

The Archmage Brinks is known around the world, but the services he provides is rather expensive.

Oooh, I like this good hacker kinda thing! And 8th level Arcane Tricksters who have Locate Object would certainly exist, they would be considered experts in their field and their services would be expensive but they would exist.

Still, this world is not Eberron even if some of it's characters are higher level than characters from there, in human society spellcasters aren't common enough to change the face of civilization like they are on Eberron, they are just a little bit more common than in your average fantasy world.

But from the positive answers I guess my ideas for magic items make sense, thanks guys.

[brian 333]

I am unfamiliar with Eberon so I cannot use it as a guide, but for a middle of the road magic power setting I might use the following ratios:

1 in 100 characters have at least one level in an adventuring class.

These characters are divided as follows:
1-3 = Fighters
4 = Fighter subclasses, (Paladin, Ranger)
5 = Fighter Multiclass and Prestiege Classes
6-9 = Clerics
10 = Druids
11 = Cleric Subclasses, Multiclasses, and Prestiege Classes
12-14 = Rogues
15 = Rogue Subclasses (Bards, Monks, Assassins, etc.)
16 = Rogue Multiclasses and Prestiege Classes
17-19 = Wizards and Sorcerers
20 = Wizard and Sorcerer Subclasses, Multiclasses, and Prestiege Classes

I would then half-step, so that half of all adventurer class characters are Level 1, half of the rest are Level 2, half of the remainder are level 3, and so on.

Thus a town of 1000 would have:


10 adventurer class characters. 5 would be Level 1, 2 would be Level 2, 1 would be Level 3, 1 Level 4, and 1 Level 5.
Their classes would likely be,
2 Fighters
1 Fighter Sub or Multiclass
2 Clerics
1 Druid or a Cleric Sub or Multiclass
1 Rogue
1 Rogue Sub or Multiclass
1 Wizard or Sorceror
1 Arcanist Sub or Multiclass.

Of course, you can skew the odds of each class to conform to your vision; Bards, for example, may be more common and all of the Prestiege Classes less so. You could also increase the number and level of higher level characters simply by 1/3 or 1/4 stepping.
With 1/3 stepping our 10 adventurer class characters become 3 Level 1, 2 Level 2, 1 Level 3, 1 Level 4, 1 Level 5, 1 Level 6, and 1 Level 7

By setting the odds of adventurer class characters higher or lower you can increase the number of higher level characters. Thus, at 2 in 100 the sample village produces 20 adventurer class characters with a top level of 6.

[DragonSorcererX]

I am unfamiliar with Eberon so I cannot use it as a guide, but for a middle of the road magic power setting I might use the following ratios:

1 in 100 characters have at least one level in an adventuring class.

These characters are divided as follows:
1-3 = Fighters
4 = Fighter subclasses, (Paladin, Ranger)
5 = Fighter Multiclass and Prestiege Classes
6-9 = Clerics
10 = Druids
11 = Cleric Subclasses, Multiclasses, and Prestiege Classes
12-14 = Rogues
15 = Rogue Subclasses (Bards, Monks, Assassins, etc.)
16 = Rogue Multiclasses and Prestiege Classes
17-19 = Wizards and Sorcerers
20 = Wizard and Sorcerer Subclasses, Multiclasses, and Prestiege Classes

I would then half-step, so that half of all adventurer class characters are Level 1, half of the rest are Level 2, half of the remainder are level 3, and so on.

Thus a town of 1000 would have:


10 adventurer class characters. 5 would be Level 1, 2 would be Level 2, 1 would be Level 3, 1 Level 4, and 1 Level 5.
Their classes would likely be,
2 Fighters
1 Fighter Sub or Multiclass
2 Clerics
1 Druid or a Cleric Sub or Multiclass
1 Rogue
1 Rogue Sub or Multiclass
1 Wizard or Sorceror
1 Arcanist Sub or Multiclass.

Of course, you can skew the odds of each class to conform to your vision; Bards, for example, may be more common and all of the Prestiege Classes less so. You could also increase the number and level of higher level characters simply by 1/3 or 1/4 stepping.
With 1/3 stepping our 10 adventurer class characters become 3 Level 1, 2 Level 2, 1 Level 3, 1 Level 4, 1 Level 5, 1 Level 6, and 1 Level 7

By setting the odds of adventurer class characters higher or lower you can increase the number of higher level characters. Thus, at 2 in 100 the sample village produces 20 adventurer class characters with a top level of 6.

This is like the 3.5 method for generating the number of character of a class in a settlement.

For my world I wasn't thinking about using hard numbers to determine things, and I was thinking about going more with my feeling which is the 5th edition style, but I appreciate that you took your time to write all of that.

I'm really sorry for making you waste your time!

[brian 333]

I don't consider it a waste of time, but a means of reaching an understanding of what you want. You are free to use or ignore any or all of it, and to modify as you like.

My presentation makes it clear that villages smaller than 1000 would not have the customer base to support a magic shop, but a hedge wizard or alchemist might do well selling or bartering cheap cures and charms.

[DragonSorcererX]

I don't consider it a waste of time, but a means of reaching an understanding of what you want. You are free to use or ignore any or all of it, and to modify as you like.

My presentation makes it clear that villages smaller than 1000 would not have the customer base to support a magic shop, but a hedge wizard or alchemist might do well selling or bartering cheap cures and charms.

It shows exactly what I was thinking, and I thank you for doing it. But yeah, villages would be limited to the local hedge wizard or alchemist, while towns would have magic shops and even low level magic items, and the high level crafters are only found in the great cities of the world.

[Squire Doodad]

Remember that the tiny town right in front of the world-eating abyss has more impressive magic for your freshly-level 17 mages in stock than the capital of the kingdom that covers half the continent you guys had an arc about when you were all level 8.

That said, you can always have the local mage be the apprentice of a reclusive archmage who's willing to do some private bargaining for scrolls of great power specifically for the wealthy/on-a-quest-to-save-the-world heroes.
So you can have a small town near the final dungeon (or any given point) that's not too big but has access to high level spells; they just don't sell much above 3rd level to the locals/people just passing through. You can even make note of the fact that the spell shop is run by a strong wizard ("used to be a wizard of a great heroin' party, back when I was your age") when the party is low level, then when they come back towards the end of the campaign the wizard is willing to give the party some of his personal selection.

[DragonSorcererX]

Remember that the tiny town right in front of the world-eating abyss has more impressive magic for your freshly-level 17 mages in stock than the capital of the kingdom that covers half the continent you guys had an arc about when you were all level 8.

That said, you can always have the local mage be the apprentice of a reclusive archmage who's willing to do some private bargaining for scrolls of great power specifically for the wealthy/on-a-quest-to-save-the-world heroes.
So you can have a small town near the final dungeon (or any given point) that's not too big but has access to high level spells; they just don't sell much above 3rd level to the locals/people just passing through. You can even make note of the fact that the spell shop is run by a strong wizard ("used to be a wizard of a great heroin' party, back when I was your age") when the party is low level, then when they come back towards the end of the campaign the wizard is willing to give the party some of his personal selection.

That is also very true sir, a retired adventurer now shop owner who is living a simple life on a small village is a real possibility.

And if the party is on a quest to save the world I would also allow them to buy his old magic items from the time he was an adventurer, things like magical robes, staves, wands, and wondrous items.

[Anymage]

You can even make note of the fact that the spell shop is run by a strong wizard ("used to be a wizard of a great heroin' party, back when I was your age") when the party is low level, then when they come back towards the end of the campaign the wizard is willing to give the party some of his personal selection.

Do I want to know why your campaigns have magic smack?

On topic to the overall thread, without 3.x crafting rules and Eberron-like populations, magic shops are unwise for all but the cheapest and most common items. The time and money invested in making something like a flaming sword don't make as much sense when you have no guarantee of a sale at the end, or even of finding someone with enough money who wants a magic sword and doesn't already have one. Stocked shops would be foolishly wasteful considering the high costs of item creation and the fact that crafting rules give all items the same profitability for both raw material costs and time invested.

If you want to make magic a reasonable commodity, you have a few ways to go. The first is that many talented drafters will likely take commissions. If you have the money and can afford the time, you can have any arbitrary item made to taste. The second is secondary market. It may not be exactly what you want, but if you look around there's probably someone who needs liquid assets more than they need magic armor and is willing to sell. Anyone from auctioneers to well-connected fixers to thieves can help the party get the item they really want. Or at least something close to it.

[DragonSorcererX]

Do I want to know why your campaigns have magic smack?

On topic to the overall thread, without 3.x crafting rules and Eberron-like populations, magic shops are unwise for all but the cheapest and most common items. The time and money invested in making something like a flaming sword don't make as much sense when you have no guarantee of a sale at the end, or even of finding someone with enough money who wants a magic sword and doesn't already have one. Stocked shops would be foolishly wasteful considering the high costs of item creation and the fact that crafting rules give all items the same profitability for both raw material costs and time invested.

If you want to make magic a reasonable commodity, you have a few ways to go. The first is that many talented drafters will likely take commissions. If you have the money and can afford the time, you can have any arbitrary item made to taste. The second is secondary market. It may not be exactly what you want, but if you look around there's probably someone who needs liquid assets more than they need magic armor and is willing to sell. Anyone from auctioneers to well-connected fixers to thieves can help the party get the item they really want. Or at least something close to it.

Well, I plan to use something similar to 3.5 and Pathfinder crafting system so crafting a flaming sword would be relatively fast. And as I said, magic weapons and armor would simply be the highest level of quality that blacksmiths and other crafters can craft, in their eyes magical is just another level of quality for weapons that they can produce.

Also, like you said they would take comissions, they would have two or three magic weapons in stock but if none of them interested the buyers they would offer to make something specially for them.

[Squire Doodad]

Do I want to know why your campaigns have magic smack?


Wait, what? I think I'm missing something, but it feels funny :smallbiggrin:

[Sparky McDibben]

Well, the higher level shops who would have spellcaster crafters would probably have things like Alarm spells protecting them, so unless a thief has both a Wand of Detect Magic and a Wand of Dispel Magic (or similar items) it would be hard to steal from a magic item shop, although, in this world it wouldn't be too hard to acquire such wands if you have the coin.

I would assume that other spellcasters would be the ones commissioning the thieves in the first place, so it's hardly a stretch to imagine they would have Arcane Countermeasures (ACM) in place. :)

[brian 333]

It was a rainy cold night in The City. The kind of night that makes your bones hurt.and all you want is to be left alone with a cheap bottle and some old, tired memories.

Then she walked in.

As sorcerers go she was on the plain side, but it had been a lot of years, and somehow she reminded me of her.

"You have to help me," she said. "They've taken the Jade Peregrine, and I need to get it back."

I couldn't tell you now why I did it. Maybe it was the booze, or maybe it was because she was the first dame who looked at me that way in a long time: eager eyes so full of hope...

"Hundred gold a day plus expenses," I said.

[DragonSorcererX]

It was a rainy cold night in The City. The kind of night that makes your bones hurt.and all you want is to be left alone with a cheap bottle and some old, tired memories.

Then she walked in.

As sorcerers go she was on the plain side, but it had been a lot of years, and somehow she reminded me of her.

"You have to help me," she said. "They've taken the Jade Peregrine, and I need to get it back."

I couldn't tell you now why I did it. Maybe it was the booze, or maybe it was because she was the first dame who looked at me that way in a long time: eager eyes so full of hope...

"Hundred gold a day plus expenses," I said.

Don't drink kids or you may end up accepting strange quests.

[Quizatzhaderac]

Low end shops are organized by how they are made usual, and on occasion by how they are used. The shop that sells magic potions also sells aloe and laxatives, but not daggers. The blacksmith sells horseshoes (even +1 ones) and weapons, but not scrolls.

As for the high end shops: these work like real estate offices. You talk to an agent and they can know who has what or can make it and how much it will cost. You can't actually rob the shop because the vorpal sword isn't there, it's at some noble's home, but you don't even know anything beyond "it's in the city, probably". You pay the agent and they run around the city to six different places and come back with your magic item.

Also, if you want to stop players from stealing the money, have magical letters of credit (cheques). Cantrip to write, cantrip to verify. Apart form the magic, this is historical accurate.

Wait, what? I think I'm missing something, but it feels funny
a great heroin' party