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View Full Version : Optimization Oath of Heroism vs Oath of Vengeance



Expected
2019-11-24, 01:17 PM
I have a level 2 Paladin who's about to be level 3 and I need some help choosing between these two oaths. He's a Half-Elf (Drow) with 16 Str and 17 Cha. I'm planning to build a crit-fisher 6 Paladin/2 Hexblade Warlock/Divine Soul Sorcerer 12.

Which oath is more optimized--advantage or expanded crit range? My DM is currently using flanking rules and I will be taking advantage of Darkness+DS and Quickened Hold Person+Divine Smite.

MrCharlie
2019-11-24, 01:33 PM
I have a level 2 Paladin who's about to be level 3 and I need some help choosing between these two oaths. He's a Half-Elf (Drow) with 16 Str and 17 Cha. I'm planning to build a crit-fisher 6 Paladin/2 Hexblade Warlock/Divine Soul Sorcerer 12.

Which oath is more optimized--advantage or expanded crit range? My DM is currently using flanking rules and I will be taking advantage of Darkness+DS and Quickened Hold Person+Divine Smite.
Mathematically, increased crit range is very slightly better (it comes out to 1 chance in 400 though; basically, the overlap where the two d20's both roll 20's is "inefficient" for advantage). However advantage increases hit chance, which also matters.

Combined with increased crit range and advantage basically stacking, heroism would be better for a strict crit fisher build assuming you can get advantage elsewhere-which you can with the houserules/planned sorcerer jaunt. Spells don't really matter, as you only have a few of them and sorcerer spells are better. As a bonus, peerless athlete seems better than abjure enemy, which is a single target turn undead, and usually worse than killing someone instead.

Protolisk
2019-11-24, 04:23 PM
Any other easy source of advantage devalues Oath of Vengeance. Flanking, if allowed, is a really easy way to devalue any other advantage gaining mechanic.

Also, Heroism paladins currently enjoy the fact that their increased crit range works on anyone they attack. Vengeance's advantage works only on one target.

Damon_Tor
2019-11-24, 06:33 PM
I have a level 2 Paladin who's about to be level 3 and I need some help choosing between these two oaths. He's a Half-Elf (Drow) with 16 Str and 17 Cha. I'm planning to build a crit-fisher 6 Paladin/2 Hexblade Warlock/Divine Soul Sorcerer 12.

Which oath is more optimized--advantage or expanded crit range? My DM is currently using flanking rules and I will be taking advantage of Darkness+DS and Quickened Hold Person+Divine Smite.

Darkness and Devil's Sight is overrated. You isolate yourself from your team, and your team is your life. And there are too many counterplays, from the Daylight spell to blindsight or other special senses. The enemies you really care about critting are the boss fights, and those are exactly the sort of guys with explicit counters to this tactic.

If it were me I would rely on Shadowblade/Thaumaturgy more often than not. Thamaturgy dims all flames within 30 feet, and flames are the most common sources of bright light excepting the sun itself. And unlike using your concentration for Darkness, the Shadowblade will actually add damage to your attacks.

Gignere
2019-11-24, 09:23 PM
Darkness and Devil's Sight is overrated. You isolate yourself from your team, and your team is your life. And there are too many counterplays, from the Daylight spell to blindsight or other special senses. The enemies you really care about critting are the boss fights, and those are exactly the sort of guys with explicit counters to this tactic.

If it were me I would rely on Shadowblade/Thaumaturgy more often than not. Thamaturgy dims all flames within 30 feet, and flames are the most common sources of bright light excepting the sun itself. And unlike using your concentration for Darkness, the Shadowblade will actually add damage to your attacks.

Unfortunately since he is rocking the hexblade cheddar he can’t take advantage of shadowblade since he can’t make it his pact weapon.

BloodSnake'sCha
2019-11-25, 02:56 AM
With flanking you need not the vengeance channel divinity.

Use heroism and have the hexblade curse as a backup.

I don't think you need the level 2 warlock, you will have enough advantage procking abilities with faerie fire and flanking and maybe friendly actions.

The heroism 7 is amazing, giving yourself and your friends THP and the enemies fear is good.