What do you think about this challenge?

[Jon_Dahl]

I was reading this stat and thinking that dying from choking on your food is more common than I had thought: https://www.statista.com/statistics/863023/odds-of-dying-from-select-causes-us/

This made me think: One of the important NPCs is my campaign throws a party. Let's say that it's his or her wedding. The PCs visit the place before the party and one of the lesser NPCs complains to the PCs' NPC ally that having blade mackerels (fantasy fish) for the guests is not a good idea. The NPCs ignores the NPC because (s)he wants to talk with the PCs, and the ignored NPC leaves sulking.

In the wedding/party, the NPC eats the fish and while being intoxicated and doing too many things at the same time, he or she starts choking on a fish bone that causes some internal bleeding as well. One of the NPCs yells to the PCs that they must help the dying NPC. Everyone will expect that the PCs will be able to handle the situation even if they say that they don't know how. Hey, no one else has any clue either! It's best just to stare at the PCs than to try to help the NPC to no avail and take the blame for his/her death. No one wants to do take that risk, so the PCs have to handle the situation.

I will slowly describe how the NPC turns blue and eventually dies if the players don't act. Let's say in 5 minutes (real time).

Heimlich maneuver will be a Heal DC 15 check, but if they don't have any ranks in healing, they will not know if that maneuver actually exists. Without any ranks in healing, I will not answer any questions regarding possible solutions to the problem.

If they manage to save the NPC, they will earn XP as if they had defeated an opponent of his/her CR and earn a reward equal to half of the treasure level of said CR.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'd very -strongly- advise that the NPC that chokes to death be someone that the PCs have only met recently and not an ally to them. To do otherwise could stir up some bad blood.

If it's an ally, you've taken something away from them. If it's a long term NPC, they now need to find a new contact after they've leaned on that one for a good while. If it was an enemy that's been around a while, you've denied them the opportunity to glean information from them, beat them at their own game, or defeat them as they otherwise intended.

If it's a new NPC though, one they don't have much investment in, then the death looks like a plot-hook. If they save him, they've made a new friend and contact that can lead to further adventure. If they fail, was it really an accident? Maybe they should investigate.

Now, as for the rules,

I don't think I'd make it a trained-only check. The skill isn't normally trained-only and odds are -very- good that no one in the party has any ranks. Maybe crank the DC to an 18 or 20 and/ or make it a skill challenge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/complexSkillChecks.htm). I'd go 3:10, maybe 4:10.

And what about magic? That'll be one of the first thoughts any player has when there's something wrong; "can I hit 'em with CLW or maybe lesser restoration?" Since we're likely dealing with suffocation then whacking him over and over with CLW or similar once he drops can keep him alive for a while. I'd probably let it go if they have and cast remove disease or if they revivify the creature on the round following his death.

Hope that helps.

[Jon_Dahl]

Thank you, I will make it a skill challenge, but I will pass the idea of Remove Disease and CLW. Those won't help.

[Nightcanon]

Why disallow magical attempts to fix this? Cure Light Wounds cures a dagger to the guts or a mace to the head, so why not a fishbone? Is there any particular reason why the party should think of using a Heimlich manoeuvre? You might want to research some of the methods used to cure drowning and choking before the advent of modern cardiopulmonary resuscitation and the Heimlich manoeuvre (which was first described in 1974). Mouth to mouth resuscitation was known in the 1700s but only really started being formally investigated or recommended in the middle of last century, after an intervening period when the tobacco smoke enema was more popular.
Bottom line (no pun intended): the importance of clearing the airway, and the suitability of abdominal thrusts to achieve this, hasn't always been as obvious to people (medical or not) as one might assume from a modern standpoint, and if you aren't running a D20 modern game there's no reason why the PCs (as opposed to your players) should think of this. It seems like another "answer in the teacher' s head" riddle to me.

[ngilop]

I mean.. toasters kill twice as many people in the USA each year over who dies to semi-automatic rifles (well hand and feet have that same distinction on firearms as well) .. or that you are something like 60 times more likely to be killed by your doctor than with a gun.

I think if you are going to go down this road, you should also institute a penalty for the player's never having had used the bathroom.

In all my 30+ years of RP gaming, I have maybe 3 or 4 times have a player ever mention anything about relieve oneself via bodily functions. All that urine in a bladder will cause it to rupture and therefore rapidly developing Peritonitis (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/peritonitis/symptoms-causes/syc-20376247)

[GrayDeath]

Since this is posted in the 3.5 Forum: Unless they are entirely mundane Level 4 or lower characters, do not do this.

It is either incredibly easy (as it deals AT MOST a few pts of bleeding damage which Cure anything can heal) or requires you to (unfairly/Suddenly, which is always bad for player agency) houserule a LOT of stuff to "not work because I said so", which is... almost never a good idea.

There are just some things that cant really happen in a more or less "normal" D&D Setting once PC`s are around, and this is one.

Now ina low Fantasy gritty setting like GoT, this is another matter altogether (and I ahve used a similar ... accident in the only GoT Game I ran for more than a 2shot^^).

But since you love to make your players miserable, you`ll probably still do it.

Ah well...

[rel]

hmm. I'd go with the following:

NPC cannot breathe. they are effectively holding breath and start with about 1/2 normal breath capacity. Once breath runs out they start dying as per suffocation rules.
A PC in this situation would be entitled to fort saves each turn to clear their own airways with sheer awesome, maybe taking damage on a failure. Lets say the NPC is too frail to manage that trick on their own. Although the party face might be able to inspire said NPC to give it a go.

DC 5 heal - NPC is choking
DC 8 heal - Airway is blocked by something
DC 12 heal - you don't really know what your doing but you can clear the obstruction with your sword. This 'surgery' works but deals 3D6 damage. Better hope that NPC isn't a level 1 commoner.
DC 15 heal - you can fix this. you clear the obstruction without further damage.
You can use other vaguely appropriate skills (survival, knowledge nature, profession: saw bones, etc) but the DC is increased by 2.

Anyone wanting to employ sword surgery without making the DC 12 heal check or an equivalent may instead rely on the art of the blade. Find a suitable weapon (dagger, scalpel, steak knife) and make an attack roll.
<10 failure and 'patient' takes 6D6 damage
>=10 success, 4D6 damage
>=15 success 2D6 damage
>= 20 success 1D6

An exhaustive list of fantasy interactions seems clunky and counter productive but here are a few options of note:

- bypassing the need to breathe will work while the effect holds
- healing will interact with the 3.5 suffocation rules of dropping to 0 then -1 and effectively buy time.
- special vision modes like tremorsense, blindsense and blindsight will offer a bonus to checks to solve the problem
- reconfiguring the airways might dislodge the obstruction, polymorphs, size changing and the like
- very small animals and appendages might be sent in to unblock the throat manually
- this feels like a low level challenge. High level effects should negate it entirely