Solid quintessence?

[Elves]

I don't know chemistry and we're dealing with a fantasy material that's liquid but presumably doesn't have moisture to extract in the traditional way. Does anyone have speculative ways to turn it solid? Would pressurizing it work?

[Elricaltovilla]

If you could reduce its temperature to absolute zero...

It's a fantasy material made of what is essentially pure time. It may not have a solid phase because it probably isn't even made of matter in the traditional sense.

Now we wait for someone to come along and prove me wrong in 3, 2, 1,...

[Kelb_Panthera]

Science doesn't enter into the matter. You're talking about a fantasy substance that screws with time. I mean, if it -is- more liquid than solid then sufficient pressure should "freeze" it into something solid. Whether it stays solid when you release the pressure and whehter it's solid-solid or kinda crumbly depends on stuff that's compeltely unknown and unknowable though. And all of that is based on the presumption that game world physics works the same as RL physics on the micro level and not just the macro level; an idea for which there's very little support in the game's texts and lore.

[Feantar]

Well, there is something that might work. Unguent of timelessness. I think it is a liquid as a metaphor for time flowing, and the only standard no-fluid state of matter is solid(I think).

That's your best bet, unless you can use temporal stasis on an object.

[Bartmanhomer]

I don't know chemistry and we're dealing with a fantasy material that's liquid but presumably doesn't have moisture to extract in the traditional way. Does anyone have speculative ways to turn it solid? Would pressurizing it work?

I don't understand your question of this thread. Can you explain your question more clearly, please? :confused:

[Kelb_Panthera]

I don't understand your question of this thread. Can you explain your question more clearly, please? :confused:

He's asking how to make quintessence, normally described as something that's a viscous liquid, into a solid object. For various reasons, there's not really an answer to his question.

[Elves]

For various reasons, there's not really an answer to his question.
I understand totally that there's no RAW answer here, I'm looking for stuff that seems like it maybe-could work.


That's your best bet, unless you can use temporal stasis on an object.
Temporal stasis is creature only unfortunately, or else you could just pressurize the quintessence and then cast temporal stasis on it. I don't know if there are ways to make objects count as creatures.

[Crake]

I don't know if there are ways to make objects count as creatures.

Animate objects?

[Bartmanhomer]

He's asking how to make quintessence, normally described as something that's a viscous liquid, into a solid object. For various reasons, there's not really an answer to his question.

This is more like a science-based question than an RPG question.

[Elves]

Animate objects?
Nonmagical materials only. :/ I'm pretty sure psionic still counts as magical.

Although if you could make the quintessence power count as arcane or divine I guess you could living spell it?

[Kazyan]

Dump an absorbent powder in it. Lower the temperature. Stick it in a potion vial. Set it out in a timeless plane until it develops a bread-like crust. Soak it with a sponge and Matter-Manipulate the sponge to be unsqueezable. Let a bunch of quintessence evaporate until you get a residue, then stir it up again with a disposible dorje of your favorite time-related power to un-solid it when necessary. Pull a "yo dawg..." and wrap some quintessence in paper followed by more quintessence to get a ball that won't flow.

[Chainguy]

Shrink Item to clothlike substance?

Depends of the use you have of it for practicality though.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I understand totally that there's no RAW answer here, I'm looking for stuff that seems like it maybe-could work

Not just no RAW answer, no answer period. It's trivial to look up the mix of things that make up, say, pudding or crude-oil and it's pretty well studied how temperature and pressure affect them as well as what kind of material characteristics they have when they solidify.

Quintessence? We don't even know for sure that it's actually matter and not something exotic (in the scientific sense) that just kinda behaves a bit like a viscous liquid. There's simply no way to even guess at how it wil behave in response to various changes in temperature or pressure. We can safely say that it won't meaningfully interact with any chemicals because they can't do anything while frozen in time in the quintessence but that's about it.

[Buufreak]

This is more like a science-based question than an RPG question.

And in an RPG where the rules are "if the book doesn't say anything about it, go with earth rules," a science based question has a perfect place here, considering the book doesn't give any nods as to how a distilled liquid of time material can be made solid.


Shrink Item to clothlike substance?

Depends of the use you have of it for practicality though.

See, I like the thought here. Cloth-like. Often people hear the phrase fabric of time. If there is any solid form of quintessence, it would have to be at least somewhat thread like.

[Bartmanhomer]

And in an RPG where the rules are "if the book doesn't say anything about it, go with earth rules," a science based question has a perfect place here, considering the book doesn't give any nods as to how a distilled liquid of time material can be made solid.



See, I like the thought here. Cloth-like. Often people hear the phrase fabric of time. If there is any solid form of quintessence, it would have to be at least somewhat thread like.
Doesn't D20 Future cover this sort of thing? :confused:

[Tvtyrant]

Polymorph Any Object can make it solid.

[Buufreak]

Doesn't D20 Future cover this sort of thing? :confused:

I'm unsure. Why don't you go ahead and flip through every inch of D20 Future, and why not Modern and Urban Arcana while we are at it, and you tell me what it says about applying chemistry to liquid magic time juice.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Doesn't D20 Future cover this sort of thing? :confused:


I'm unsure. Why don't you go ahead and flip through every inch of D20 Future, and why not Modern and Urban Arcana while we are at it, and you tell me what it says about applying chemistry to liquid magic time juice.

I'll save you some time. No, it doesn't. I'll grant you that I haven't looked recently in my copies but I think I'd remember -something- about material phase-change rules. Much less anything about the material phase-change of quintessence.

[Bartmanhomer]

I'm unsure. Why don't you go ahead and flip through every inch of D20 Future, and why not Modern and Urban Arcana while we are at it, and you tell me what it says about applying chemistry to liquid magic time juice.

Sure. *Search through the pages of D20 Future.* No. It doesn't said anything like that unfortunately. :frown:

[Buufreak]

I'll save you some time. No, it doesn't. I'll grant you that I haven't looked recently in my copies but I think I'd remember -something- about material phase-change rules. Much less anything about the material phase-change of quintessence.

Great! So in those situations, by the book, you go by standard earth rules. Find a condensation point of time itself, and go nuts.

[Luccan]

I also don't know a lot of chemistry. But I do write, so throwing stuff at the wall on a theoretical question about fantasy physics is always fun.

Could be you freeze it by taking it to the coldest place in the planes, at the coldest point in time. So, in order to freeze liquid time, you have to time travel. And that creates all sorts of problems, so almost no one bothers. Maybe that's where quintessence comes from: someone took quintessence back in time, froze it, and other a quadrillion years it thawed and melted, only to end up in the hands of the being that decides to bring it back in time to freeze it.

Alternately, perhaps quintessence is time that has slowed down enough to be a liquid. In universes nearing the end of their existence, time becomes matter, from plasma, to gas, to liquid (these universes eventually resemble endless Planes of Water) then solidifying. This traps the remaining inhabitants like flies in amber, which deities and cosmic beings view with interest in their museums. Or it could even be the end state of a very long game beings beyond comprehension play and whoever wins collects that reality as a trophy.

[unseenmage]

As it has a weight and a volume Quintessence must be matter.

However, with its listed weight and volume and the described characteristics it's more of a molasses than a liquid. It might flow, but it also floats on water. If Shrink Item-ed it might even be lighter than air IIRC.

Theoretically solid time is black hole material. You might be making Sphere of Annihilation, but that's conjecture.

As Quintessence is the product of a spell with an Instantaneous duration the magic is gone once the spell is done. The result is no more magical than the stone made with Wall of Stone. So it should be Animate Objects-able, Minor Servitor-able, Fabricate-able, and Shrink Item-able.

So potentially Fabricate could make a solidified Quintessence, but good luck finding the tools and crafting space required for such. Maybe that sun forge from Thor Meets Guardians of the Galaxy costarring Game of Thrones guy?

What could solidified Quintessence be like that's in game?
The crystalline coffin for an Imprisonment spell?
The innards of a Smoky Confinement spell or Iron Flask?
Time Stop but minus all the text allowing you to move or take actions?
Aforementioned Sphere of Annihilation/black hole material?

Most likely?
A rock. Solidified matter is often just called rocks. Quintessence minus the ability to put stuff into it and minus the ability for it to be sticky is just a solid lump of indeterminate hardness. Aka a rock.
Is it harder than diamond or chalk? Dunno. Either way in order to be a solid it is no longer useful as Quintessence.

[frogglesmash]

Maybe mixing it with some other exotic material results in a solid substance that retains quintessence's properties.

Or maybe high temperatures act as a catalyst, causing it to grow into a solid crystalline form.

Final idea: Quintessence is unrefined, and refining it results in a more potent, and solid substance.

[unseenmage]

Solid Quintessence rocks might be Fabricate-able into a box of sorts that could time lock its contents.

But only if adjacent pieces of solid Quintessence count as surrounding. Arguably any gap in the surrounding quintessence could be grounds for it not time locking especially considering its normally gooey nature.

[Elricaltovilla]

Actually, since we're just going to be making something up whole cloth (as there is no RAW support for solidified Quintessence), maybe the right question is to ask what properties would you expect such a thing to have? What are you planning to use it for?

Answering questions like those could help us come up with a literary/thematic solution to your dilemma, since a physics or RAW solution is not forthcoming.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Most likely?
A rock. Solidified matter is often just called rocks. Quintessence minus the ability to put stuff into it and minus the ability for it to be sticky is just a solid lump of indeterminate hardness. Aka a rock.
Is it harder than diamond or chalk? Dunno. Either way in order to be a solid it is no longer useful as Quintessence.

The underlined isn't -quite- accurate. A sufficient quantity of quintessence interferes with nearby psionic activity, per the power description. A quintessence rock should retain that property if it's large enough, maybe even enhance it since the substance is at least marginally more concentrated.

If it's sufficiently sturdy to make a larger object out of, making a box of some kind should have the usually time-locking effect within the box.

[unseenmage]

The underlined isn't -quite- accurate. A sufficient quantity of quintessence interferes with nearby psionic activity, per the power description. A quintessence rock should retain that property if it's large enough, maybe even enhance it since the substance is at least marginally more concentrated.

If it's sufficiently sturdy to make a larger object out of, making a box of some kind should have the usually time-locking effect within the box.
Though I did (and usually do) forget the psionics interference property I mention upthread that a box with no hinges key or a lid could be different from a box having these things. Depends on the GM, mileage may vary.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Since a lump of quintessence is an object, you might be able to make some out of riverine...

Could you fill riverine with quintessence instead of water?

[unseenmage]

So. Quintessence is already supposed to be solidified time.

Solidifying it further would require removing all energy from it? (https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/143765/if-all-energy-is-removed-from-an-object-what-will-it-stop-moving-relative-to)

I havnt read the page yet completely but would it make a dead spot relative to nothing?

[Elves]

Actually, since we're just going to be making something up whole cloth (as there is no RAW support for solidified Quintessence), maybe the right question is to ask what properties would you expect such a thing to have? What are you planning to use it for?

The original thought was for preserving heavy objects in quintessence for a very long time. If they're just in a tank full of quintessence they'll touch the bottom of the tank and stop being fully sealed. So the thought was to line the bottom of the tank with solid quintessence. Maybe putting the tank in zero g would work and be easier? Or maybe it's just a dumb concern.


Since quintessence is apparently nonmagical (although IMO that seems sketchy) the animate objects + temporal stasis option from above should work. You don't even need to pressurize it since its condition becomes "fixed" and nothing can harm it.

So that's probably what I'll run with.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Since quintessence is apparently nonmagical (although IMO that seems sketchy) the animate objects + temporal stasis option from above should work. You don't even need to pressurize it since its condition becomes "fixed" and nothing can harm it.Quintessence is magical like FOOF is magical: both have special effects that happen despite being "mundane" materials. One stops things in time, while the other BURNS THE ABSOLUTE CRAP OUT OF EVERYTHING. INCLUDING WATER.

Hell, even the lords of the elemental plane of fire are terrified of that stuff. It's one of the few ways to burn things literally made out of fire.

[RSGA]

So. Quintessence is already supposed to be solidified time.

Solidifying it further would require removing all energy from it?

I havnt read the page yet completely but would it make a dead spot relative to nothing?

It could be possible that solid and gaseous quintessence have no resting mass, and as such it'd be like solid light. Because for all we know, quintessence is actually a colloid with molecules of solidified and suspended time in it and so the change in state leads to that time leaking out because the capacity has been changed.

[Kris Moonhand]

Quintessence is magical like FOOF is magical: both have special effects that happen despite being "mundane" materials. One stops things in time, while the other BURNS THE ABSOLUTE CRAP OUT OF EVERYTHING. INCLUDING WATER.

Hell, even the lords of the elemental plane of fire are terrified of that stuff. It's one of the few ways to burn things literally made out of fire.

Dare I ask what "FOOF" is?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Dare I ask what "FOOF" is?Dioxygen difluoride.

Literally the only things I know of that it doesn't burn, or explode with (including things that are literally impossible to burn any other way), are certain fluorinated metals. The stuff is vastly more dangerous to humans than pure chlorine gas, the existence of which is practically a war crime in and of itself.

It literally oxidizes pure oxygen.

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2010/02/23/things_i_wont_work_with_dioxygen_difluoride
https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/chemistry/FOOF/

There's very little more literally literal than FOOF. As in, it takes someone who is literally insane to futz with it.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Dioxygen difluoride.

Literally the only things I know of that it doesn't burn, or explode with (including things that are literally impossible to burn any other way), are certain fluorinated metals. The stuff is vastly more dangerous to humans than pure chlorine gas, the existence of which is practically a war crime in and of itself.

It literally oxidizes pure oxygen.

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2010/02/23/things_i_wont_work_with_dioxygen_difluoride
https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/chemistry/FOOF/

There's very little more literally literal than FOOF. As in, it takes someone who is literally insane to futz with it.

He's not kidding. I've seen some stuff on it before. You know how you can put most substances in glass containers because glass is chemically inert to most things? Not this stuff. Just lights right up on contact. I -think- it doesn't bother the noble gasses and there's a certain flouidated metal that it won't react to that they use to make containers for it but that's pretty much it.

[weckar]

It provides all the elements of the good ol' fire triangle by itself. That's the issue.