My party bathed in the blood of Black Maga, what should I do to them?

[Deca4531]

So I'm running Rise of the Runelords. My party, lv 12, decided to pass through Turtleback Ferry on their way somewhere and forgot that Black Maga lives in the lake. So they fought and killed it. Someone remembered something about a legend concerning its heart and I re read the myths, which includes:

God-Proof: Black Magga is older than many gods. Divine magic is said to have little effect whatsoever on her abominable form. Anyone who cuts Magga’s black heart from her vile chest and bathes in its putrescent blood will likewise become invulnerable to the power of the gods.

So the crazies did it, like all of them. So now I want to do something fun with them. I have already given the "God Proof" which they all thought was awesome, until they realized that healing spells were of no effect either. In order to balance this out a bit I had an idea, mutate them into monsters. I'm thinking of giving them, maybe DR 5 coldiron and some amount of fast healing, maybe 3 or 4, as well as some bonus stats, maybe +2 to all physical stats but -6 or -4 to wisdom. I need some suggestions on what to do to balance things out. The cleric of the group didn't make the session and I'm going to have to ask him if he also does this before I tell him the results, that's going to be interesting. Maybe the magic of Lamashtu still has some effect on them?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Deca4531
In order to balance this out a bit I had an idea, mutate them into monsters.

The Mana Wastes mutant (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/mana-wasted-mutant-cr-1/) could be a place to start. It’s CR+1, but you can tinker a bit.

[False God]

It worked, but now they're all twisted eldritch abominations with tentacles and fish-like aspects that would make Davy Jones or Cthulhu proud. Maybe a slow mutation over time if you want to ease them into it or give them time to find a way to stop it. Also: divine spells (like healing and cool buffs) no longer work on them.

Something special probably needs to happen to the cleric, since they are a divine caster.

Like congrats this is the party now:
https://media.wizards.com/2016/images/daily/c4rd4r7_yx5tKcdibd.jpg

[Rynjin]

Give them all a Corruption (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/corruption/)?

Aboleth, Accursed, and Deep One are especially thematic, or you can come up with your own.

[Psychoalpha]

'healing spells were of no effect either'

Time to find themselves a bard/etc and some arcane wands of cure spells. >_>

[Firechanter]

I dunno. Going from the monster's statblock, the rumours seem to be mostly rubbish.


DR 15/cold iron and magic;
Immune death effects, mind-affecting effects, petrification, polymorph;
Resist acid 20, cold 20;
SR 26

Nowhere does it say that divine magic has any different effect on it than arcane. Nowhere does it say it can't be healed with divine magic. It has Spell Resistance and that's it. And afaik you can always choose not to resist a spell.

You could grant them one or more of its immunities, some DR like 5/cold iron and magic, and possibly some toned-down spell resistance (maybe 5+Level?).

[Rynjin]

I dunno. Going from the monster's statblock, the rumours seem to be mostly rubbish.



Nowhere does it say that divine magic has any different effect on it than arcane. Nowhere does it say it can't be healed with divine magic. It has Spell Resistance and that's it. And afaik you can always choose not to resist a spell.

It's lore:


Bearing a head like a plesiosaur atop a thrashing mass of tentacles and eyes, Black Magga is an immense creature indeed. Although she is effectively immortal until slain, she has spent many of her years in deep hibernation. These slumbers could last for a dozen centuries or more at a time, and are punctuated by relatively short periods of activity that generally last for only a few decades. These long periods of sleep have had something of a debilitating effect, for with each century of slumber, she grows weaker. She is now but a shadow of her original power. That she remains as powerful as she does today speaks volumes to the terrible wrath she must have possessed at one time.

The Myth of Black Magga
Fisherfolk and woodsmen have long told tales of a fell monster rising from the depths. Below are a few commonly held but mistaken beliefs about her—although they may well have been true when she was at the height of her power.

Blood Tongue: Many who have seen Black Magga and lived can never speak of their experiences. Supposedly, when they attempt to tell the tale, black blood wells from their throats and into their mouths, choking their words. Thus, far fewer claim to have seen Black Magga than actually have.
God-Proof: Black Magga is older than many gods. Divine magic is said to have little effect whatsoever on her abominable form. Anyone who cuts Magga’s black heart from her vile chest and bathes in its putrescent blood will likewise become invulnerable to the power of the gods.
Storm Bringer: Sightings of Black Magga often herald powerful storms and hurricanes. It is said that the beast summons these storms to pull victims into her watery domain, whereupon she captures them, consumes them, and transforms them into monstrous, vermicular horrors.


It has Spell Resistance and that's it. And afaik you can always choose not to resist a spell.

You can't, actually. You need to specifically spend a Standard action to lower Spell Resistance and it only stays down for a round.


A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creature’s next turn. At the beginning of the creature’s next turn, the creature’s spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity).

Spell resistance is a bitch and a half as a PC ability, which is part of the reason it's so sad that classes like Monk get kicked while they're down by acquiring a high level class feature that nerfs their already low capabilities.

[Jack_Simth]

So I'm running Rise of the Runelords. My party, lv 12, decided to pass through Turtleback Ferry on their way somewhere and forgot that Black Maga lives in the lake. So they fought and killed it. Someone remembered something about a legend concerning its heart and I re read the myths, which includes:

God-Proof: Black Magga is older than many gods. Divine magic is said to have little effect whatsoever on her abominable form. Anyone who cuts Magga’s black heart from her vile chest and bathes in its putrescent blood will likewise become invulnerable to the power of the gods.

So the crazies did it, like all of them. So now I want to do something fun with them. I have already given the "God Proof" which they all thought was awesome, until they realized that healing spells were of no effect either. In order to balance this out a bit I had an idea, mutate them into monsters. I'm thinking of giving them, maybe DR 5 coldiron and some amount of fast healing, maybe 3 or 4, as well as some bonus stats, maybe +2 to all physical stats but -6 or -4 to wisdom. I need some suggestions on what to do to balance things out. The cleric of the group didn't make the session and I'm going to have to ask him if he also does this before I tell him the results, that's going to be interesting. Maybe the magic of Lamashtu still has some effect on them?

About the healing spells: Wands will cover HP (the Cure line is on the Bard list, too, so can be arcane), but long-term status effects will now be extra-nasty.

As to the Cleric, if he goes for it:
Dig up 3.5's Ur-Priest (Complete Divine), and trade out his Cleric levels of 6th and higher for Ur-Priest levels (and make the 5th and lower "ex-cleric" levels), ignoring the requirements. He'll get higher level spells a little early (a whatever-5/Ur-Priest-7 can cast 7th level spells, vs. a Cleric-12 having 6ths), but his caster level is severely reduced (CL 7 at 12th level - have fun with SR and spell durations), he gets much fewer spells per day, and he's lacking domain powers now ... but it's no longer the gods' magic (it's stolen), so affects his companions (and himself) normally.

[Psyren]

I agree with "give them something (good and bad), but total immunity to divine power is bunk/an urban legend that the PCs took too seriously." The Corruption idea feels fine.

[Efrate]

Yeah they took a rumor and you gave life to it. For non-monstrous pcs it should be more curse than blessing. It is a herald of the mother of monsters, she does not like normal. Look at the waters of lamsthu spell and its fluff side effects, and amp them up.

Mutations that are NOT beneficial, a bunch of ability damage, deformations and such. I would make them immune to healing/status recovery magic period, unable to recover hp with channeled energy, and at least lower all npc attitudes by a step due to horrid mutations. It was a stupid idea and seeing as how she is one of the behind ths scenes power in RotRL it should only be negative.

Give them a sidequest to remove the negatives via limited wish or greater magic from someone, or let them suffer the consequences for the rest if the AP.

That would be mu style, but I DM by punishing foolishness ruthlessly so YMMV.

[Deca4531]

The Mana Wastes mutant (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/mana-wasted-mutant-cr-1/) could be a place to start. It’s CR+1, but you can tinker a bit.

This is an awesome suggestion, thank you. The waters of Lamashtu is a good one too.

As for the lore about divine immunity, I know it's only a rumor, but it could have been the case 10,000 years ago, and I choose to believe it because it sounds like a fun thing to work with and an interesting challenge for the party.

Another reason I'm doing this is because the group didn't just beat Maga, they wrecked her, a group of 4 lv 12s, with no healer, beat a CR 15. Half of them are way over powered and I want to make things a bit harder for them because steam rolling the campaign is no fun

[Efrate]

Magas pretty over Cred. Had a level 9 harbringer pretty much solo her. Took 4 rounds i believe.

[False God]

Another reason I'm doing this is because the group didn't just beat Maga, they wrecked her, a group of 4 lv 12s, with no healer, beat a CR 15. Half of them are way over powered and I want to make things a bit harder for them because steam rolling the campaign is no fun

That's really not unreasonable. It's a single creature. It has one round of actions. It can only do so much. You've got 4 level 12's with multiple options, multiple rounds. 4-5 rounds of combat would be a good day for the Black Maga.

Many adventure module creatures(across multiple games and editions) are under-powered on the basis that the designers REALLY want the players to play through the whole module, and they assume the people playing them are not skilled system-savvy folks with OP characters.

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Before you change things up, figure out who's not having fun, you or them. If they're not having fun, by all means challenge them. If you're not having fun, tell them that before you make any changes.

[Rynjin]

It should be noted that Rise is generally pretty easy. Pathfinder characters are typically of a higher power level than 3.5 in most practical senses (discounting mega-splat dives and TO shenanigans), which the AP was designed for.

I don't think a little tweaking will ruin your party's fun, just be sure to not go overboard with it, and keep a close eye on encounters that might be more difficult than they appear at first glance.

[Firechanter]

No more healing magic? Might as well abort the campaign there.

CR is just a number. I haven't played the AP, but looking at its stats I suppose my Pally at level 12 would solo it in 2 rounds or so, given a bit of prep time. Our DM would probably have used two of them buggers. XD

[nedz]

I agree with "give them something (good and bad), but total immunity to divine power is bunk/an urban legend that the PCs took too seriously." The Corruption idea feels fine.

SR 5+Level (against Divine only) might fit better ?