Hexblade ac question

[Houster]

Hey all!
I am making a tiefling hexblade for a new campaign. I don't want to use shields. The mechanics of casting sword and board are annoying and I don't want to take imp.pact weapon and war caster to solve this.
In my group, we roll and the stats stay fixed. We are allowed one switch. What I rolled pre race bonus-
16 str, 10 Dex, 16 con, 14 int, 13 wis, 10 cha.
Now, should I take the risk of switching cha and str, and have pretty low ac(like 15 with half plate)? I want to be in the front lines.
I can do stuff like keep the 16 str, switch int and cha(thus ending with 16 cha 14+2), take zariel subrace for 1 str and in 4th level take heavily armored for another 1 str, thus ending with 18 str and heavy armor prof. But this seems a waste...

What do you think? Any ideas? Is 15 ac to low for frontline?

[Anderlith]

snip

Go 16 Str, 13 Dex, 14 Con, 10 Int, 10 Wis 16 Cha

That way you can wear Heavy Armor, & still use Cha for attack.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

How about switching int and dex and not taking spells with saves or attack rolls?

As long as you don't multiclass you don't need minimum of 13 cha for a warlock.

16 str, 14 Dex, 16 con, 10 int, 13 wis, 10 cha

So 17 AC with half-plate and no shield. You can just use a great sword so no need for IPW or war caster as you can just hold the sword in one hand when you don't attack.

[Houster]

Interesting. You opened the door to keep him low cha...
I can also switch Dex and int and keep using medium armor. Thus freeing up the asi in 4th.

I should have said, I want (but can forget about) to multi class to sword bard after 5th. It's a bummer being a bard with low cha. The main reason though is I really want more spell slots, and bard rolls 1d8 hp...

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Interesting. You opened the door to keep him low cha...
I can also switch Dex and int and keep using medium armor. Thus freeing up the asi in 4th.

I should have said, I want (but can forget about) to multi class to sword bard after 5th. It's a bummer being a bard with low cha. The main reason though is I really want more spell slots, and bard rolls 1d8 hp...

So you have to get a 13 minimum of charisma.

If there is something I recommend doing is choosing the class and character you want to play after rolling stats and not before.

Maybe there is something else you want instead of warlock or bard?

Those are great stats for a paladin or fighter for example.

[Houster]

Andrelith, we are allowed only one switch.
Snakecha, didn't see your post there when I wrote my last reply.

[Houster]

So you have to get a 13 minimum of charisma.

If there is something I recommend doing is choosing the class and character you want to play after rolling stats and not before.

Maybe there is something else you want instead of warlock or bard?

Those are great stats for a paladin or fighter for example.

So true... I want him badly though and I think I can manage. He will not be a min max God, but effective and fun to rp.

Thoughts about just switching str and cha and in 4th take +2 Dex? or take glasya subrace(1 dex) and resilient Dex in 4th?

[BloodSnake'sCha]

So true... I want him badly though and I think I can manage. He will not be a min max God, but effective and fun to rp.

Thoughts about just switching str and cha and in 4th take +2 Dex? or take glasya subrace(1 dex) and resilient Dex in 4th?

Both I are good options if you play in a group where it is the level of optimization.

The right level of optimization it the one used by your group.

[Houster]

Yes you are right.
Besides me the entire group are beginners.
Easy to be non optimized.

[Teaguethebean]

If the group isn't very optimized then that is perfect just swap str and cha and take the lower ac. You should be fine with Shield and if you pick up some levels of bard or sorcerer you will get extra 1st level slots for shield.

[Chaos Jackal]

There's really no point in playing Hexblade if you dump Cha. Hexblade's whole shtick, whether for straight lock or as a dip, is Cha to damage to effectively make a gish-style character SAD. If you wanna dump Cha, you might as well pick another patron and just go Pact of the Blade, like the pre-Xanathar days.

Rolling stats in order is just terrible in my opinion, even if you get to pick the class afterwards you might just end up with stats for something you don't like, but what you have is workable. Given that you have a solid Con, you can manage somewhat even with low AC, as long as you aren't the only frontliner. A typical masochistic route to take for such cases is essentially asking to be hit and then use stuff like Armor of Agathys and Hellish Rebuke. Or you can switch between ranged and melee as required. I'm currently playing a 12 Dex Hexblade who's carrying 17 AC at lv9 thanks to a magic item. It doesn't do much for defense, that's for sure, but Armor of Agathys and acting as ranged artillery and controller when needed mean that I have a solid record of not getting downed.

Either way, a warlock without Charisma just isn't going to cut it. It's much better to have one or two points of AC less than ideal, than having a +0 Cha mod. You're basically an Eldritch Knight who dumped Int and only went for buff spells then, except said Eldritch Knight also has the fighter chassis to support his buff-and-hit style. While you have a spellcaster's chassis without a spellcasting modifier.

Go the Cha route, accept you might get hit more often than you'd normally be comfortable with, and be smart about it. You'll be much more effective than someone with a couple more AC points but no social skills and very few effective spells.

[Houster]

There's really no point in playing Hexblade if you dump Cha. Hexblade's whole shtick, whether for straight lock or as a dip, is Cha to damage to effectively make a gish-style character SAD. If you wanna dump Cha, you might as well pick another patron and just go Pact of the Blade, like the pre-Xanathar days.

Rolling stats in order is just terrible in my opinion, even if you get to pick the class afterwards you might just end up with stats for something you don't like, but what you have is workable. Given that you have a solid Con, you can manage somewhat even with low AC, as long as you aren't the only frontliner. A typical masochistic route to take for such cases is essentially asking to be hit and then use stuff like Armor of Agathys and Hellish Rebuke. Or you can switch between ranged and melee as required. I'm currently playing a 12 Dex Hexblade who's carrying 17 AC at lv9 thanks to a magic item. It doesn't do much for defense, that's for sure, but Armor of Agathys and acting as ranged artillery and controller when needed mean that I have a solid record of not getting downed.

Either way, a warlock without Charisma just isn't going to cut it. It's much better to have one or two points of AC less than ideal, than having a +0 Cha mod. You're basically an Eldritch Knight who dumped Int and only went for buff spells then, except said Eldritch Knight also has the fighter chassis to support his buff-and-hit style. While you have a spellcaster's chassis without a spellcasting modifier.

Go the Cha route, accept you might get hit more often than you'd normally be comfortable with, and be smart about it. You'll be much more effective than someone with a couple more AC points but no social skills and very few effective spells.

Thx for the in depth answer.
Do you think going 18str(1 zariel+1 heavy armor at 4th) and staying with 16 cha(not too shabby) is also not worth it?

[Chaos Jackal]

A Hexblade has Cha to damage, so having both Cha and Str is redundant, unless you're really worried about escaping grapples and climbing cliffs.

For a non-Hexblade Pact of the Blade build, sure.

[da newt]

Maybe swap INT and CHA, start 1 lvl fighter for fighting style (defense), heavy armor prof, and 2nd wind, then MC Warlock and use ASIs for CHA ... It's not optimal, but it's solid.

[Spiritchaser]

I’d flip STR and CHA,
Survive level 1
run darkness and devil’s sight. With dissadvantage it’ll make you tough enough until your first ASI, and blow that on DEX.

Now at 4 you basically have the same CHA bonus you’d normally have, one less AC and lots more HP.

Second ASI should probably be warcaster or res con.

[Aimeryan]

16 str, 10 Dex, 16 con, 14 int, 13 wis, 10 cha

So, you've got a strong Con score, a very strong primary stat score (once racial boosted), a decent secondary stat score. The problem is the secondary stat score is in Int and is largely wasted for anyone but an Eldritch Knight. So, if you want to make use of the 14 you have to switch it, which then means you have to want a class/build that uses the 16 Str.

Alternatively, you switch the 16 Str with something and forget about the 14 Int. The problem there, however, is the 10 Dex; Dex is usually the secondary stat for any class not using Str as it provides AC and Initiative. Moon Druids would love 16 Wisdom and 16 Con before racial boosts and need nothing else, not even Dex (although it is nice if starting an encounter in humanoid form).

So, really your best bet is a Str class; Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin. Switch the Int to Cha for social encounters (or don't, if going Eldritch Knight).

[Houster]

I’d flip STR and CHA,
Survive level 1
run darkness and devil’s sight. With dissadvantage it’ll make you tough enough until your first ASI, and blow that on DEX.

Now at 4 you basically have the same CHA bonus you’d normally have, one less AC and lots more HP.

Second ASI should probably be warcaster or res con.

Um, why lots more hp? con stays 16 at all options. A nd why one less ac? It's 2 no? 18 full plate vs 16(15 half plate+ 1 dex bonus)

Am I missing something here?

[Spiritchaser]

Um, why lots more hp? con stays 16 at all options. A nd why one less ac? It's 2 a no? 18 full plate vs 16(15 half plate+ 1 dex bonus)

Am I missing something here?

A point buy build for this will typically have a Dex 14 and a con of 14 as well

As of level 4, compared to that build, you’ll be down 1 AC, which does suck, but is not dreadful. You’ll be up 4 HP, which is, ok, not really lots yet but enough to matter, and it’ll keep stacking nicely.

You may really hate the idea of a shield, but try and consider it for the first few levels. Especially level one, but even level two... and consider standing back and plinking more early on... most hexblades I’ve seen so better at range early, and melee after they get their feats.

Are you at all thinking GWM?

[Houster]

Yeah might need to use shield first. True.

Um not GWM but PAM...
Maybe at asi 2. Because asi 1 should probably go to increase ac, no matter what flip I make.

[Spiritchaser]

Yeah might need to use shield first. True.

Um not GWM but PAM...
Maybe at asi 2. Because asi 1 should probably go to increase ac, no matter what flip I make.

So at ASI 2 you’ll have Shadow of Moil. This and PAM is very easy to fluff as a pretty serious bad*** conceptually, but you’ll have to see how you’re doing with regards to concentration saves.

Moil (or darkness for that matter) is actually pretty strong at shoring up a less than perfect con save, since you don’t have to manage the damage you don’t take, but:

What I have often seen happen with hexblades in this level range is that they will seem to be hard but brittle targets.

They will be hit infrequently or never with solid AC and dissadvantage (plus a small necrotic disincentive against melee attacks)

But, at some point something knocks down their concentration, and darkness or shadow goes down... then in a kind of low grade cascading defence failure, they hit the floor very shortly thereafter, as frustrated and angry foes vent their pent up aggression on a previously hard... and now easier target.

Obviously the hexblade can (and should) do something to protect themselves when this happens, but success in this is not assured.

If your party has a paladin, or runs bless, this may not be an issue for you, so... YMMV, but I know one hexblade who made a LOT of death saves because he took GWM and PAM before res CON or warcaster.

Yes he played like a hyper aggressive lunatic, but... you’re a hexblade... are you really the kind of person who takes a sensible long view?

Edit: I guess at wis 13 you could be but...

[Houster]

He was an actor at his father's death theater in sigil. Can't see a reason why he would have common sense, true.

[Theaitetos]

If you play with the latest Unearthed Arcanas, you could take the Eldritch Armor invocation, which gives you proficiency with every armor.

And as others have said, STR is wasted on a Hexblade, so swapping it with CHA is my recommendation. However, if you plan to multiclass with paladin and you can only swap once, then it's probably better to swap INT with CHA.