Mobile Feat for Bladeslinger or more Intelligence? [Archive]

djreynolds

2019-11-28, 10:08 AM

I'd say go ahead and take Intelligence, then play like you've got Mobile. Watch how many opportunity attacks you take and how many hit, and if you don't like the results, start casting defensive spells like Blur (to impose disadvantage) or Darkness/Fog Cloud (to negate opportunity attacks) before you enter combat, or use Misty Step, then maybe take Mobile at eighth level.

Basically there's ways to work around lack of Mobile so don't be afraid to try before you buy.

100%

What's the point of 23 AC if its never tested?

So increase that AC with either more intelligence or more dexterity

And yes a longbow at level 6 is probably going to do more damage than a 2d10 firebolt just because of your dex modifier

And so this is the question? What is the only thing hitting your 23 AC? A natural 20.

So blur, mirror image, and misty step all good ways to work around the mobile feat and to decrease a chance of a critical hit.

The mobile feat is awesome, but for a wizard it is a luxury behind max intelligence, 18-20 dex, resilient con.

And since we are talking about critical hits... the lucky feat is very nice luxury

Rukelnikov

2019-11-28, 11:12 AM

saucerhead

2019-11-28, 11:33 AM

By that time mobile would be useless. At tier 3 a bladesinger really should be playing like any other wizard casting high level spells and not wasting his/her actions on weak melee attacks.

I'm unsure how your reply helps the OP. Are you saying she should take mobile at level four? My suggestion was to increase her Int +2 at level four and again at level eight maxing out that stat. If she really wants mobile she should wait until after that at level twelve. Those were the two options she was asking about. Telling her that mobile is useless doesn't seem helpful. If she likes the feat there is nothing wrong with taking it. I would recommend resilient:Con, or +2 Con at level twelve since bladesingers don't have the best hit points, but it would depend on what her Con stat is since she didn't say what it was.

Keravath

2019-11-28, 12:06 PM

Mobile on a bladesinger is fun for the lower levels but as you get higher up, most bladesingers transition to more traditional wizard roles. They tend to stand back and cast spells. This is especially true if the bladesinger is concentrating on an important spell that is either controlling or doing damage to opponents. Most wizards do not want to be close to the melee since it increases the chances of having to make a concentration saving throw which they could fail.

In addition, intelligence increases your DCs, bladesong benefits, skills etc. Mobile is fun but I would have join the rest voting in favor of increasing intelligence at level 4 in this case.

Another option, that is a much bigger investment is to take 2-3 levels of rogue for cunning action and an archetype. A swashbuckler rogue/bladesinger has cunning action, some sneak attack damage, and the ability to avoid op attacks from a creature they have attacked similar to the mobile feat. They also have an extra skill and expertise in a couple of skills. On the other hand, it is a much larger investment and delays your wizard spell progression. It might be an option to consider if you want to continue with a melee role through the higher levels possibly using up-casted shadow blade.

Dork_Forge

2019-11-28, 02:52 PM

By that time mobile would be useless. At tier 3 a bladesinger really should be playing like any other wizard casting high level spells and not wasting his/her actions on weak melee attacks.

Some people like playing Gishes to actually be a Gish, not dabble in it at low levels and then give up. Shadow Blade and Tesner's make playing a melee Bladesinger viable easily.

Delph

2019-11-29, 05:48 AM

100%

And so this is the question? What is the only thing hitting your 23 AC? A natural 20.

And since we are talking about critical hits... the lucky feat is very nice luxury

23 AC is hited by 18 (many basic enemies have +5), and when you meat something stronger, you will be beaten by lower numbers... and if you are talking about number in start of discussion it's 24 and it still betan by 19...

but I agree with everything other you said.

HiveStriker

2019-11-29, 07:51 AM

Just turned lvl 4 on my bladeslinger and debating either the mobile feat or more intelligence (16 to 18).

Looking at mobile feat to be able to get in and out of melee without activating opportunity attacks.
However my AC is as follows :
Ac 15 with studded
Ac 16 with mage armor
Ac 19 with bladesong
Ac 24 shield spell
(If INT is bumped up to 18, bladesong will be bumped up to 20). So wondering if I am worried too much about attacks of opportunities.

Any advice regarding this would be appreciated. Thanks.
To sump up everyone's opinions (I think).

a) -> You want to play a magically empowered martial however far you level up --> pick Mobile, no questions asked. Pairing that with a Haste or Fly allows to strike in melee with very little risk (unless you force thel to Ready action, which is still a win overall). Once you switch to Shadow Blade + Longstrider, it still gives you Monk level speed to pair with the free disengage.
By the way, this is a perfectly legit and efficient way to play a Wizard. Don't bother with people telling you otherwise, because they are badwrongfuning you.

b) -> You're enjoying melee fighting but are impatient to try out Wizard's higher level crazyness (mass control and manipulation spells, big AOE, etc) --> Buff INT and use defensive spells as needed (Misty Step should be your favorite spell along with Shield. Sometimes the former is better than the latter ;)) because as others pointed out, the more you level, the less you should be trying to stay in melee, so the less you should be directly threatened and/or needing speed.

16bearswutIdo

2019-11-29, 08:20 AM

Catullus64

2019-11-29, 09:37 AM

I will almost always shill for Mobile on any sort of melee character, since it's my favorite feat, hands down. One thing to consider, however, is the playstyle of your table, and your DM's combat design philosophy. Do you play on a grid mat? Does your DM make frequent use of difficult terrain? Most importantly, does your DM throw a lot of highly tactical combats at you, where good positioning and target switching are often crucial to success?

Mobile is my favorite feat because, at the tables I run, and the tables where I prefer to play, the answer to all those questions is yes. If the answer to those questions is no, Mobile probably won't net you as much value as the ASI.

Also, have you considered bumping DEX instead of INT? Aside from just generally being the 5e god stat, I think it's a good choice for Bladesingers to focus on DEX. If you're playing like a gish, you may not be casting nearly as many spells with attack rolls or saving throws, as much as you're using Shields, buff spells, counterspells, etc.

HiveStriker

2019-11-29, 10:13 AM

I've got a variant human Bladesinger (ok'd by DM due to no elves in his setting) and took Mobile as my bonus feat. Let me tell you, that **** is awesome. I'm sure its mostly because I'm low-level (5), but having a dual wield rapier/shadow blade Bladesinger moving at 60 movement without proccing AoOs is sweet. If an enemy manages to get on me, I can just Shield their attack round and Booming Blade -> Mobile 60 feet away on my turn, likely getting out of their single movement range. And you can still do traditional wizardy things after pulling back.

+1 to the Mobile gang
Fun fact: you can completely trump Fighter at their own schtick (raw weapon damage and tankiness) at very reasonable cost (mid-level) or low cost (highest levels).
Wish Simulacrum, possibly setting up some Wizard shenanigans. On first round, both cast Mirror Image or Blink, on second round cast Haste or upcast Shadow Blade.
Or, provided of course you managed to find Rings of Spell Storing (which are uncommon as far as I know so easy enough to get) have familiars cast Haste for you so you can stack.

With Haste it's up to 2*(3) full attacks + 2 attacks without mod damage, *every turn*.
With an upcast 3rd level Shadow Blade (many encounters expected), you're dealing up to 3d8*6 + 5*6 every turn for a minute.
So 13.5*6 + 30 = 111 average.

With an all-in Shadow Blade, 5d8, you can add 2d8*6 so another 27 on average.

Is it weak compared to other crazy things a17+th Wizard can do? Most probably (Meteor Swarm / True Polymorph to quote classics end as much more damage in the right sitaution).
Is it weak per se? So not! It's a tactic that works in most situations with the same efficiency unless you have big trouble reaching melee range or face enemies with melee effects that can instantly threaten your life. Not that rare, but not that common either.

Very niche though. So let's pick a more reasonable situation (EITHER Haste OR Shadow Blade).
Haste still means 6 full attacks + 2 "half-attacks" every turn with an 1d6 weapon, or 1d8 with Dual Wielder so minimum average 8*1d6+6*5 = 58 damage.
Fighter without Action Surge would deal at best 5*(1d10+5) with PAM and lance, so average 60.

Shadow Blade (3rd level) still means 4 full attacks with 3d8 weapon + 2 half attacks with regular weapon (which is so low comparatively that I won't bother XD): 4*(13.5+5) = 74 average.
Only Eldricht Knight can follow if himself casts Shadow Blade but then it means no GWM nor PAM, so realistically Haste for those builds.

Then comes the other "detail": Fighter that really wants to crush damage in melee has only one reasonable choice: GWM and using ways to gain advantage to offset accuracy loss. Which simply cannot work with Elven Accuracy.
On such a high number of attacks, you can expect at least one crit per turn if you get advantage. That may add up quickly.
You do need to get advantage though. :)

Gignere

2019-11-29, 10:28 AM

Fun fact: you can completely trump Fighter at their own schtick (raw weapon damage and tankiness) at very reasonable cost (mid-level) or low cost (highest levels).
Wish Simulacrum, possibly setting up some Wizard shenanigans. On first round, both cast Mirror Image or Blink, on second round cast Haste or upcast Shadow Blade.
Or, provided of course you managed to find Rings of Spell Storing (which are uncommon as far as I know so easy enough to get) have familiars cast Haste for you so you can stack.

With Haste it's up to 2*(3) full attacks + 2 attacks without mod damage, *every turn*.
With an upcast 3rd level Shadow Blade (many encounters expected), you're dealing up to 3d8*6 + 5*6 every turn for a minute.
So 13.5*6 + 30 = 111 average.

With an all-in Shadow Blade, 5d8, you can add 2d8*6 so another 27 on average.

Is it weak compared to other crazy things a17+th Wizard can do? Most probably (Meteor Swarm / True Polymorph to quote classics end as much more damage in the right sitaution).
Is it weak per se? So not! It's a tactic that works in most situations with the same efficiency unless you have big trouble reaching melee range or face enemies with melee effects that can instantly threaten your life. Not that rare, but not that common either.

Very niche though. So let's pick a more reasonable situation (EITHER Haste OR Shadow Blade).
Haste still means 6 full attacks + 2 "half-attacks" every turn with an 1d6 weapon, or 1d8 with Dual Wielder so minimum average 8*1d6+6*5 = 58 damage.
Fighter without Action Surge would deal at best 5*(1d10+5) with PAM and lance, so average 60.

Shadow Blade (3rd level) still means 4 full attacks with 3d8 weapon + 2 half attacks with regular weapon (which is so low comparatively that I won't bother XD): 4*(13.5+5) = 74 average.
Only Eldricht Knight can follow if himself casts Shadow Blade but then it means no GWM nor PAM, so realistically Haste for those builds.

Then comes the other "detail": Fighter that really wants to crush damage in melee has only one reasonable choice: GWM and using ways to gain advantage to offset accuracy loss. Which simply cannot work with Elven Accuracy.
On such a high number of attacks, you can expect at least one crit per turn if you get advantage. That may add up quickly.
You do need to get advantage though. :)

Unless someone else takes the controller role, a wizard actively denying enemy actions/options is way better than a wizard dealing damage at tier 3 and 4. Basically it’s something a martial definitely cannot do. So although if you burn a bunch of resources and be selfish you can reach unbuffed melee’s DPR for a limited number of encounters per day.

It’s by design of D&D, that it’s infinitely better if the wizard do things that literally no martials can do in combat than try and duplicate what martials can do all day without any resources.

Chaos Jackal

2019-11-29, 11:08 AM

Regardless of whether you want to gish or to be a wizard but with higher AC, increasing Int is better. It buffs all relevant numbers, even damage if we wanna talk about higher tier play. Mobile just doesn't do much for a Bladesinger. Their AC is typically very impressive, especially with Shield, so against many enemies they can reasonably avoid the AoO just by virtue of that. Even if an enemy's to-hit is worrisome, a Bladesinger can just Misty or Thunder Step out and be golden. Teleportation also means they don't benefit as much from the movement speed bonus either. And since they take Extra Attack a level later and would often just GFB over using it anyway, there's no running past or through enemies dishing out attacks while avoiding theirs either.

Buff Int.

HiveStriker

2019-11-29, 12:58 PM

Unless someone else takes the controller role, a wizard actively denying enemy actions/options is way better than a wizard dealing damage at tier 3 and 4. Basically it’s something a martial definitely cannot do. So although if you burn a bunch of resources and be selfish you can reach unbuffed melee’s DPR for a limited number of encounters per day.

It’s by design of D&D, that it’s infinitely better if the wizard do things that literally no martials can do in combat than try and duplicate what martials can do all day without any resources.
Would you mind stopping trying to badwrongfun people? It's kinda pointless at best, annoying at worst. :)

Regardless of whether you want to gish or to be a wizard but with higher AC, increasing Int is better. It buffs all relevant numbers, even damage if we wanna talk about higher tier play. Mobile just doesn't do much for a Bladesinger. Their AC is typically very impressive, especially with Shield, so against many enemies they can reasonably avoid the AoO just by virtue of that. Even if an enemy's to-hit is worrisome, a Bladesinger can just Misty or Thunder Step out and be golden. Teleportation also means they don't benefit as much from the movement speed bonus either. And since they take Extra Attack a level later and would often just GFB over using it anyway, there's no running past or through enemies dishing out attacks while avoiding theirs either.

Buff Int.
Thing is, you would consume many more 1st and 2nd level spells for that. When you reach 18th level, it becomes irrelevant because you can simply make Shield and Misty Step your free spells.
It's a very long way up to there though.
Mobile allows you to plain avoid all OA (ok, not *all*, but most of them) and by further pushing your speed also eases you into returning in a place that is not only preventing melee attacks because enemies cannot follow, but also possibly hinders ranged attacks because you can get behind a cover.

The true problem of Bladesinger as an empowered melee martial is that when facing the most dangerous creatures you need to invest much into resilience if you want to stay into melee. And when you stop trying to melee/frontline, Mobile loses much of its value.
That's why it's best on people who are really dedicated to it, or simply people who want to play a fun Wizard knowing they'll never get past level 12-13.

Keravath

2019-11-29, 01:10 PM

..

With Haste it's up to 2*(3) full attacks + 2 attacks without mod damage, *every turn*.
With an upcast 3rd level Shadow Blade (many encounters expected), you're dealing up to 3d8*6 + 5*6 every turn for a minute.
So 13.5*6 + 30 = 111 average.

...

Shadow Blade (3rd level) still means 4 full attacks with 3d8 weapon + 2 half attacks with regular weapon (which is so low comparatively that I won't bother XD): 4*(13.5+5) = 74 average.
Only Eldricht Knight can follow if himself casts Shadow Blade but then it means no GWM nor PAM, so realistically Haste for those builds.

I think one of us misunderstands Haste or I am misunderstanding your post.

"HASTE
Choose a willing creature that you can see within range. Until the spell ends, the target's speed is doubled, it gains a +2 bonus to AC, it has advantage on Dexterity saving throws, and it gains an additional action on each of its turns. That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object action."

Haste grants only one additional weapon attack. It does not grant a second bonus action.

A level 6+ bladesinger using haste has 2 attacks from the Attack action (with extra attack), one additional attack from haste, and one bonus action attack with an off-hand weapon (no stat mod to damage) if they are dual wielding.

There is no way to get 6 attacks unless I am missing something.

Damage when wielding a level 3+ shadow blade assuming everything hit would be 3x(3d8+stat) + 1d6 (assuming a short sword in the offhand or d4 if wielding a dagger. With a +5 stat the average damage is 59 damage/round which is good but about 1/2 of the number you were citing.

A fighter can't do as well since although they can get more attacks at level 11+, they don't have access to shadow blade. In either case, a wizard has to choose between haste and shadow blade since both are concentration so unless the party has another magic user who can cast haste, then the damage is more likely 2*(3d8+stat) + d6 = 40.5 (assuming +5 stat which might not be true on a bladesinger who wants to boost int as much or more than dex).

Amechra

2019-11-29, 01:22 PM

Fun fact: you can completely trump Fighter at their own schtick (raw weapon damage and tankiness) at very reasonable cost (mid-level) or low cost (highest levels).
Wish Simulacrum, possibly setting up some Wizard shenanigans. On first round, both cast Mirror Image or Blink, on second round cast Haste or upcast Shadow Blade.
Or, provided of course you managed to find Rings of Spell Storing (which are uncommon as far as I know so easy enough to get) have familiars cast Haste for you so you can stack.

With Haste it's up to 2*(3) full attacks + 2 attacks without mod damage, *every turn*.
With an upcast 3rd level Shadow Blade (many encounters expected), you're dealing up to 3d8*6 + 5*6 every turn for a minute.
So 13.5*6 + 30 = 111 average.

With an all-in Shadow Blade, 5d8, you can add 2d8*6 so another 27 on average.

Is it weak compared to other crazy things a17+th Wizard can do? Most probably (Meteor Swarm / True Polymorph to quote classics end as much more damage in the right sitaution).
Is it weak per se? So not! It's a tactic that works in most situations with the same efficiency unless you have big trouble reaching melee range or face enemies with melee effects that can instantly threaten your life. Not that rare, but not that common either.

Very niche though. So let's pick a more reasonable situation (EITHER Haste OR Shadow Blade).
Haste still means 6 full attacks + 2 "half-attacks" every turn with an 1d6 weapon, or 1d8 with Dual Wielder so minimum average 8*1d6+6*5 = 58 damage.
Fighter without Action Surge would deal at best 5*(1d10+5) with PAM and lance, so average 60.

Shadow Blade (3rd level) still means 4 full attacks with 3d8 weapon + 2 half attacks with regular weapon (which is so low comparatively that I won't bother XD): 4*(13.5+5) = 74 average.
Only Eldricht Knight can follow if himself casts Shadow Blade but then it means no GWM nor PAM, so realistically Haste for those builds.

Then comes the other "detail": Fighter that really wants to crush damage in melee has only one reasonable choice: GWM and using ways to gain advantage to offset accuracy loss. Which simply cannot work with Elven Accuracy.
On such a high number of attacks, you can expect at least one crit per turn if you get advantage. That may add up quickly.
You do need to get advantage though. :)

Of course you're beating out the Fighter - you're effectively 2+ characters. It's like breaking Doubling Season (https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=89116) in Magic - it's so immediately powerful that it isn't surprising when you're doing wacky things.

MaxWilson

2019-11-29, 01:27 PM

Of course you're beating out the Fighter - you're effectively 2+ characters. It's like breaking Doubling Season (https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=89116) in Magic - it's so immediately powerful that it isn't surprising when you're doing wacky things.

Simulacrum lets you beat anyone's DPR: just make a Simulacrum of the guy you're trying to beat, and then add a Fire Bolt on top of that. :-P

The design of that spell is downright horrible.

Renbot

2019-11-29, 02:03 PM

If you actually want to gish take Mobile and then max Dex, not Int. Dex improves AC (whether bladesong is active or not), attack, initiative, and the most or second most common save.
Mobile saves a whole lot of Shield spells.

HiveStriker

2019-11-29, 02:13 PM

Simulacrum lets you beat anyone's DPR: just make a Simulacrum of the guy you're trying to beat, and then add a Fire Bolt on top of that. :-P

The design of that spell is downright horrible.
This is a nice summary. XD

In some way it's worse than Wish. At least Wish *may* have a crippling downside if you use it for anything other than spell replication.

Also, sorry if I wasn't clear in my previous post: I was counting the craziest cheese that amount to Simulacrum and you both boosted with Haste ("each familiar's" cast in case you also want to stack Shadow Blade...
Plus the bonus action attack of dual-wielding.
So 2 (Extra Attack) +1 (Haste Attack) + "1/2" (bonus action attack without the related FS).
Doubled because Simulacrum.

Which brings a question I realized I should have asked myself much much earlier: is Simulacrum using Find Familiar to get own pet RAW?
My intuition is yes, but I'd like third-party opinion. :)

Expected

2019-11-29, 02:27 PM

Mobile is great for a Bladesinger to escape retaliation, but it wouldn't be my first feat. +2 Int is bumping your AC, DC, skills and concentration save bonus. I would take mobile after your Int is maxed.
I agree with this. If your Con is odd, you can also take Resilient: Constitution.

Chaos Jackal

2019-11-29, 02:29 PM

Thing is, you would consume many more 1st and 2nd level spells for that. When you reach 18th level, it becomes irrelevant because you can simply make Shield and Misty Step your free spells.
It's a very long way up to there though.
Mobile allows you to plain avoid all OA (ok, not *all*, but most of them) and by further pushing your speed also eases you into returning in a place that is not only preventing melee attacks because enemies cannot follow, but also possibly hinders ranged attacks because you can get behind a cover.

The true problem of Bladesinger as an empowered melee martial is that when facing the most dangerous creatures you need to invest much into resilience if you want to stay into melee. And when you stop trying to melee/frontline, Mobile loses much of its value.
That's why it's best on people who are really dedicated to it, or simply people who want to play a fun Wizard knowing they'll never get past level 12-13.

Precisely because the average bladesinger won't be wading into melee too much even at the best of times (for one, if you don't have Bladesong available, it's rather pointless) you won't be burning through your slots that fast. Unless the plan is to dodge AoOs every turn there's not really gonna be much of a drain on the mobility side.

But ultimately, no matter the opinion on the slot burden, the second part of what you're saying pretty much sums it up. A character who doesn't spend the vast majority of their time in melee has a lot less use for Mobile, and a bladesinger falls into that category.

Evaar

2019-11-29, 03:46 PM

I agree with this. If your Con is odd, you can also take Resilient: Constitution.

Yup, and with Bladesong's bonus you aren't far from auto-succeeding on most Concentration saves if you go this way. With some conservative numbers, you're probably looking at +8 to your concentration saves (assuming +2 con, +3 proficiency, +3 int).

djreynolds

2019-11-29, 04:43 PM

I just had a vision of your bladesinger running up into melee and casting lightning bolt because the DM lined them up so perfectly... you couldn't resist.

Call me crazy but the more I read this mobile for a bladesinger... the more I like it.

Most casters are grabbing casting stat and then con/war caster for checks, resilient con, or just constitution

Being able to jet in and out of combat without wasting something like a precious 2nd level spell on misty step is strong

Not getting hit saves on the use of a 1st level shield spell, not getting hit saves on the "need" for more HP

Okay, now I often tell my table feats are just more fun than a stat boost.

Take mobile at 4th, and then sit back and decide at 8th do you need more dex or intelligence

I can sit back and say intelligence, because of AC with bladesong, concentration, and that 14th level ability.... but taking mobile at 12th or 16th... you may never use it honestly.

Grab mobile

MaxWilson

2019-11-29, 07:06 PM

I just had a vision of your bladesinger running up into melee and casting lightning bolt because the DM lined them up so perfectly... you couldn't resist.

Call me crazy but the more I read this mobile for a bladesinger... the more I like it.

How is Mobile in this scenario better than just casting Longstrider beforehand? You didn't make a melee attack, you just cast Lightning Bolt, so you don't get to ignore opportunity attacks this round.

Don't get me wrong, I *love* Mobile especially on monks and fighters, but for a Bladesinger who's on the fence, not fully committed to being a skirmisher and with plenty of ways to replicate the effect by magic... it seems a shame to tell the player to commit blindly.

djreynolds

2019-11-29, 07:43 PM

How is Mobile in this scenario better than just casting Longstrider beforehand? You didn't make a melee attack, you just cast Lightning Bolt, so you don't get to ignore opportunity attacks this round.

Don't get me wrong, I *love* Mobile especially on monks and fighters, but for a Bladesinger who's on the fence, not fully committed to being a skirmisher and with plenty of ways to replicate the effect by magic... it seems a shame to tell the player to commit blindly.

Was my vision wrong?

Mobile wouldn't work?

Well that sucks. I saw a line of mooks 120ft long just getting fried...

My whole weekend is ruined.

Dork_Forge

2019-11-29, 10:35 PM

Was my vision wrong?

Mobile wouldn't work?

Well that sucks. I saw a line of mooks 120ft long just getting fried...

My whole weekend is ruined.

Your vision is just fine! Cast Haste on yourself beforehand and use the additional attack!

MaxWilson

2019-11-29, 11:11 PM

Was my vision wrong?

Mobile wouldn't work?

Well that sucks. I saw a line of mooks 120ft long just getting fried...

My whole weekend is ruined.

If you kill the mooks, Mobile isn't necessary--dead mooks make no opportunity attacks.

If you don't kill the mooks, Mobile still probably isn't necessary--you can just cast Lightning Bolt from 10' away from the nearest mook.

Either way you still take opportunity attacks from everything you didn't target with a melee attack this turn, which is everything.

Your vision is just fine! Cast Haste on yourself beforehand and use the additional attack!

Or cast Darkness on yourself beforehand and the mooks now get no opportunity attacks on you at all, because opportunity attacks require seeing the target. Or use the free Disengage from the Haste. Or cast Blur and impose disadvantage on all attacks including opportunity attacks, which against mooks is about as good as not taking opportunity attacks.

Dork_Forge

2019-11-29, 11:22 PM

If you kill the mooks, Mobile isn't necessary--dead mooks make no opportunity attacks.

If you don't kill the mooks, Mobile still probably isn't necessary--you can just cast Lightning Bolt from 10' away from the nearest mook.

Either way you still take opportunity attacks from everything you didn't target with a melee attack this turn, which is everything.

Or cast Darkness on yourself beforehand and the mooks now get no opportunity attacks on you at all, because opportunity attacks require seeing the target. Or use the free Disengage from the Haste. Or cast Blur and impose disadvantage on all attacks including opportunity attacks, which against mooks is about as good as not taking opportunity attacks.

Darkness on yourself without having a means of seeing through it is just shooting you as well as your party in the foot. You could use the disengage but if the character has mobile anyway (either for player preference or flavour) and you're only risking one AoO then you may as well get an additional attack out of it if all mooks don't die.

Disadvantage is nice, though I prefer not to trust the dice when I can help it.

MaxWilson

2019-11-29, 11:34 PM

Darkness on yourself without having a means of seeing through it is just shooting you as well as your party in the foot.

Under 5E rules it has minimal impact and may even grant you advantage on your ranged attacks, depending on whether or not the DM treats it as darkness (grants advantage to attacks on things outside of the darkness, because they can't see you) or two-way blindness (neither advantage nor disadvantage, because neither of you can see the other). Either way you're not taking opportunity attacks from things without blindsight/truesight/etc.

Teaguethebean

2019-11-29, 11:41 PM

Your vision is just fine! Cast Haste on yourself beforehand and use the additional attack!

And you would have a speed of 100! Holy cow!

Dork_Forge

2019-11-30, 02:21 AM

Under 5E rules it has minimal impact and may even grant you advantage on your ranged attacks, depending on whether or not the DM treats it as darkness (grants advantage to attacks on things outside of the darkness, because they can't see you) or two-way blindness (neither advantage nor disadvantage, because neither of you can see the other). Either way you're not taking opportunity attacks from things without blindsight/truesight/etc.

A spellcaster being blinded is a pretty significant handicap to have, avoiding AoO doesn't really seem worth it in exchange for neutering your available options.

ThatoneGuy84

2019-12-01, 08:47 AM

Currently playing a bladesinger.
My ASI platform
Int - to 18
Int - to 20
Resiliant - Con (evened out my con)
Mobile

I dont regret mobile, it has its uses. But this late in campaign it's might get a use 2-3 times a session, in heavy Combat game. I should have probably skipped it.
My DM offered to let me respec it (hes pretty generous DM lik that) I might respect toughness and just get the massive boost to HP straight up. But I'll prolly leave it I dont regret the choice

Never bothered taking dex higher then 16. AC is great but semi-earily campaign I got Gauntlets of over str and late game a belt of giant Str. So I use STR att modifier anyways.

HiveStriker

2019-12-01, 07:10 PM

I just had a vision of your bladesinger running up into melee and casting lightning bolt because the DM lined them up so perfectly... you couldn't resist.

If you kill the mooks, Mobile isn't necessary--dead mooks make no opportunity attacks.

If you don't kill the mooks, Mobile still probably isn't necessary--you can just cast Lightning Bolt from 10' away from the nearest mook.

You didn't get his idea apparently.

He was probably envisioning a small frontline of goblins, which he would need to completely "put aside in a line" if you see what I mean, while coming from a position that was roughly 90° perpendicular to that line.

I think that base situation (line of enemies, more or less zigzagy over something like 10 feet "large") happens fairly often, as well as "caster / backliner starting position is perpendicular to that line".

Whether the 10 extra feet would often be enough to make a real difference in efficiency for a Lightning Bolt... Is a question where I wouldn't dare an answer.
However, I can stress that those extra 10 feet are useful in general to cast spells that have a "too short to my taste" range, like Hold ones or Blindness at low level.

Combining Mobile + Bladesong means you can nearly make a full forth and back of your movement speed, *without spending any spell slot or action/bonus action*. Mobile alone (when Bladesong out) can allow you to completely pull off melee range from an enemy, at least until creatures start getting improved speed as a basis (and then the combination of Mobile + Bladesong allows you to follow the arm races up to CR 14 at least). That's actually pretty sweet.

Especially in parties which don't really have ways to maintain a true frontline meaning you can not always predict how much enemy will focus on you from one turn to another.

Longstrider is nice, but it's a spell slot. Even a 1st one is important, considering you usually want them spared for emergency Shields (even accounting for the short rest restoration, it's only so many Shields for a day).

Haste is great, but it's concentation. If you want to play a Bladesinger as it's hinted (magical warrior), you might prefer concentrating on Greater Invisibility / Shadow Blade.
If you want to play a regular Wizard using Bladesong just for extra mobility/defense, then Haste (and the others quoted) is obviously the lesser choice. :)

By the way, that info is not really relevant for a Bladesinger, but Mobile on a Necromancer Wizard makes Vampiric Touch very interesting to use (even more on a Death Cleric because that one can combine with Monk but that's another issue). :)